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How Warburtons boss transformed bakery giant with the help of The Muppets | Boardroom Uncovered
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Nov 28, 2024
The boss of Warburtons has said the bakery giant would not be where it is today without the help of Hollywood A-listers Samuel J Jackson, George Clooney, Robert De Niro, Sylvester Stallone - and The Muppets. Chairman Jonathan Warburton, part of the fifth generation of the family to lead the Bolton business, has seen the firm's finances transformed by the use of film stars in their adverts in recent years. The tactic, which has come at a hefty financial price, seems to have paid off in spades with Warburtons being elevated to a truly household name and its sales and profit surging. Get more of City AM 👇 🌐 http://www.cityam.com X(formerly Twitter): http://twitter.com/CityAM Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/cityam Instagram: http://www.instagram.com/city_am LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/company/cityam
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0:00
obviously getting Stallone and Sam Jackson and George Clooney and Robert dairo onto your adverse as you said it's
0:06
not going to be inexpensive yeah but has it paid off financially fores yeah I
0:11
mean to use a very very famous quote from an ex from a bonian of the past uh
0:19
Lord liehu is that 50% of my advertising works I just can't tell you it's 50% but
0:25
what I can tell you is that if we didn't do it the business wouldn't be in the position in there 150 years in
0:33
2026 do you feel as the chairman of wton as being a fifth generation waron a
0:39
sense of responsibility to maintain your family's Legacy because you're not just the boss of a historic company it's your
0:47
family yeah I mean yeah of course you do but you don't think about it but you do
0:52
I mean look I I was looking at there like any any generational change in any
0:59
business or anything you know I was born who I was I didn't choose this and I think the people oh
1:05
it's all right for you you know you've had leg well it's what you do with the leg it's not whether you're born with it
1:11
because there loads and loads and loads of only 3% of family businesses get past a third generation how important is it
1:18
to you that wton remains a family-owned business very why is that because it's
1:27
Unique um it's it means that if it the
1:33
we've done you know we've done very well financially out of it uh we we achieved a lot but we' we've done well out of it
1:41
um I don't see I don't see any attraction
1:46
whatsoever of not being a private family business I just don't see the benefit
1:51
the the reason people don't do it is to get enough money to go and do other things I don't want to do anything else
1:58
never been tempted no no no we don't we we made it very clear that the business
2:04
is not for sale you had offers approaches we oh over the years of course we have but not anymore nobody
2:10
bothers anymore [Music]
2:19
no hello and welcome to another episode of boardroom uncovered powered by City
2:24
my name's John Robinson City am's UK editor and my guest for this Edition is the chairman of Bakery giant wton
2:31
Jonathan wton has overseen the company's transition from a northern Bakery to a household name as a fifth generation
2:38
wton Jonathan along with his cousins Brett and Ross assumed control of the business in 1991 following the
2:45
retirement of their fathers so what are the unique pressures about running a
2:50
company your ancestors started in 1876 and how does waron avoid the same
2:56
fate of other family-owned Brands such as Wilkos who collapsed in recent years
3:01
without any further delay let's dive in Jonathan thank you very much for coming on boarding on covered today I suppose
3:07
it's a bit of an unusual question to start in an interview with a baker from Bolton but what's it like acting
3:14
opposite Kermit the Frog um a lot easier than acting opposite Miss
3:21
Piggy actually it I first and foremost have to stress that acting is being kind
3:28
to me appearing on screen with I was the sort of classical child that uh you know
3:35
the school play happened and I if I was lucky I'd end up being a tree so when I
3:42
got persuaded to it's a long story about why we end up being in why I end up
3:48
being in the Arts but um it it was in interestingly enough it's a very
3:55
unusual experience because I have no acting experience um when we ended up do the one that we've
4:02
done out the country was the Muppets ad which we actually I actually ended up going to Hollywood for 48 hours which
4:08
was terribly glamorous um they were I'd NE I didn't
4:13
realize that the Muppets are all operated by rods no they're real they're
4:19
Reales they're real uh I didn't realize how the way they operated them yeah and
4:24
um I don't know what I expected them to be like but I didn't expect them to be like they were and and it necessitated
4:32
me being uh put in a very unusual situation to do it I think you've just
4:38
got to go with it yeah I think you know first don't fall into the Trap of thinking you're an actor that's the
4:44
first one so just do it because you're doing it for a bit of fun and hopefully people laugh with you and not at you um
4:52
the the characters that play the characters are are very different so
5:00
Kermit would could be up to three people um the major character obviously
5:05
is the voice um but you're not conscious of the people when you're there with the
5:11
puppets yeah um so he it was relatively easy um but but dealing with Miss Piggy
5:20
was somewhat more challenging what were the challenges involved in well I'm not used to having a sort of large what how
5:26
can I describe it uh uh puppet Pig crawling up my front it's not something
5:33
I'd experienced before uh and that was a bit odd yes but it was a look it's a
5:38
great experience it's a bit of fun I don't take it very Ser I take I take myself very seriously but I don't take
5:44
situations like that very seriously but it is a it is a question I've been asked similar question to that before and I
5:51
think the danger is for people like me if you fall into the Trap Of You Think
5:57
You're an actor uh that's when you fall foul if you just be yourself and accept
6:04
it there as part of the fun um it it's been a great experience great experience
6:10
of course you had Samuel Jackson play you in another advert what was that experience like um well it's the last
6:19
one of the six that we've done so far that we would classify our what we call our gold Campaign which
6:25
started uh 10 11 years ago with Stallone and Sam Jackson was the last one I mean
6:32
he's the highest grossing actor in history so uh that was in itself a bit
6:37
of a uh a surprise to me because I'm not I'm too old to know anything about the
6:42
Marvel comic movies which apparently is where when we researched how he would be
6:48
um how won's brand would sit with something like that a lot of young people knew him because of Marvel Comics
6:54
whereas I knew him from all the stuff in the you know stuff in the past Pulp Fiction particularly the Shar movie did
7:01
movies he' done uh but so he he was really as normal as they can be these
7:09
people are you know fated all over the world these International stars that they're not often great
7:16
conversationalists because they're so used to being asked questions they're not great at asking questions very in
7:23
degrees but he was terrific I my wife and daughter came we shot in the warehouse in
7:30
um just off the M1 the bottom of the M1 um and uh so Kim and my wife and my
7:37
daughter came uh and he I had to go up and have something done before we did
7:43
our bit together uh and I came back down and he's ning away to Kim and Charlotte talking about going on holiday and so
7:49
quite remarkably normal really very nice guy he's a golfer so I'm I'm a golfer so
7:56
we chatted about that and was telling me about go he was going on holiday afterwards so we so remarkably he's a
8:03
nice he was a nice fellow um and um he knew Stallone so he'd spoken to Stallone
8:10
about OT and obviously never heard of us and said look these guys have approached
8:16
us um and they've you they've sent the the ad that we they did with you so he
8:22
spoke to St and thankfully uh he was very complimentary about us and so he said well why not
8:28
it's and because it's only shown in the UK there's no US problems to be concerned about um and I'm still getting
8:36
people it's just been on air again uh and I'm still getting people friends of mine emailing going I love your new ad
8:43
I'm thinking I on three times so you can get on but no great he was lovely but
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it's quite the decision isn't it for a family run Bakery in Bolton to ring up
8:54
Stallone's people and say do you want to come on an advert and you got George Clooney you've got Dao like tell me
9:01
about the decision to do that so um and this could be a long answer but I'll
9:08
tell you how we started off down this route by using the family which then leads us into Stallone so my um I
9:17
started to think I had a clue about what I was doing in my mid 20s so literally 40 years ago and I joined the business
9:24
I've been a sales rep for un lever and I joined the business and we would just
9:30
start we were very local business in in Lancer really based around Bolton we had a b a little baker in Blackpool we were
9:37
just we just opened one in Burnley we had a distribution Depot in wfi in Yorkshire that was it and so we were
9:45
very local um and but we knew we had something a bit special and I I won't go into that but we knew
9:53
product quality had always been the main driver for the business a lot of product quality come as no surpris the major
9:59
product quality differentiation in Bakery is is flour is wheat and we're
10:06
the largest users of Canadian wheat in Europe Canadian wheat tends to be the best um bread making wheat in the
10:14
world climatic conditions really uh and so 50 roughly 50% of everything we make
10:21
come uh is grown in Canada we're also a very large user of of English wheat Blended those two together so my father
10:30
was a uh a very passionate very capable Baker on very big bits of Kit like we
10:36
have and um he was behind uh the development of the Canadian week program so I thought we've
10:45
got something special so we we decided we needed an advertising agency now this was
10:52
preil you know pre-mobile almost pre-mobile phones so at the time you
10:57
wrote to the advertising Association and they said look we're looking to do this we're a little
11:03
business in Bolton uh but we'd like an another agency um and they gave us three names
11:10
and only one of those three agencies bothered to get in touch with me and that was a new startup agency so they
11:16
kind of by default got the job so I went to see them I guess
11:21
probably let's say I mean it it felt like overnight but it was probably months and months and talking about what
11:27
we were and they knew nothing about just cuz nobody ever heard of waron uh I went way to school when I was 13 down to
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Somerset and you know people would ask you you know was it what do you do where
11:41
are you from and I think oh everybody all heard of wton because you know getting down to crew was like you were
11:47
falling off the end of the world um so I went to see them and said and the
11:52
creative director was a really lovely fellow called Mike court so I droned on to him about how important can Canadian
11:59
weat was and and this was going to be the most thrilling thing he could Poss it'll inspire you and give you great
12:05
ideas for the for the development of a campaign and he just turned around to me said that he said Jonathan that's really
12:12
interesting but it's probably the dullest story I've ever heard so I was completely at this stage grass for he
12:19
said but what we what we really like about you is you're still a family business be they be again of 40 years
12:27
ago 30 seven or eight years ago um we'd like to use your family in the advertising and so I my dad had just
12:34
retired and I persuaded at the time there were two people who were using advertising there was Bernard Matthews
12:41
who had a turkey business in Norfolk now you're too young to remember this guy
12:46
but it was a very old campaign but there was also an american guy called Victor kayam and victtor Kay went on that
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classic way of American advertising with a Remington razor and he looked to Cameron he went hi you know I'm Victor
13:00
cam I like the product so much I bought the company and it was just and my dad said look to help you we'll do it but
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you H we have to be in on the joke so if any stage we are being the big eye we
13:18
won't do it so the whole premise was written about and then we made some ads with my mom and dad and they were very
13:25
successful in Granada TV as it was at the time so we we then over a 30 odd year period
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kept dipping in and out dipping in and out family being in family not being in and and the quality was the first stuff
13:40
was brilliant we then lost our way a bit and we changed agences about 15 years
13:46
ago and um I was approached by uh well we ended I knew these guys and guys said
13:53
me said look we for you to kick on to the next levels of Business by this now we were fully National business so we
13:59
grown the business significantly over that those sort of 30 25 years uh 25
14:05
year period and we went um so we wanted to be our market share around here was
14:12
30% our market share in London was probably seven or 8% so we wanted we
14:17
knew there was a massive opportunity for the business in the south of England and in Scotland so we needed a much a
14:23
campaign that his his Mantra was you need something that will make you famous and
14:29
it just at the time we changed the agencies new creative guys and at the
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time it was 2009 or 2010 we had a very bad winter and I got
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a letter from a shopkeeper in uh Brar in the Kor which funny enough I've just
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been to this weekend not the shop but uh and it said Dear Mr wton I wanted you to
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know that during the the last two weeks of terribly of hard weather up here the
15:02
only van driver that got delivery driver that got through the blizzards was your driver and I thought you ought to know
15:10
so I went back to the agency and said there's a bloody good idea in here kind
15:16
of go away thinking being a sort of careful northerner that they would say
15:21
oh that is a great idea why don't we use some of your van drivers so they came back and said it's
15:28
a great idea however we think we need to get a star
15:33
to play the driver because you know acting is a lot more challenging than people think
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so it it started there and and the thinkings as as a national business but
15:49
are still you know very very much rooted in this part of the world like on so who
15:54
you going to get and we kept having conversations about potential and at the time um Jason Stan had made a
16:04
series of movies called The Transporter so somebody said why don't we approach J
16:10
St them and I thought he'll be expensive he can't possibly and I can remember going home and talking to my wife and
16:16
daughter at the time and saying we're thinking of using a chat called Jason STM who I knew because I've been a fan
16:21
of movies uh and I'd seen lock stop which he is in I think he brilliant in
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that um and it was in cuz my daughter went oh yeah and my wife went who's
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he and I thought okay he's a big star
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but he's not with all due respect to him and he's now throwing shade at Jason Satan he is you know he is a an
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international star at the time perhaps 15 years ago he wasn't so um and then
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the chaper runs our PR business in conversation said well how about Stallone if we were being
16:59
Bonkers yeah and who would you have yeah and Arie was one and Stallone and and
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this and and Matthew said I know him and you kind of go yeah of course you do
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well he knew one of his best friends right and that's where the idea of using Stallone and I could remember thinking
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yeah he's really going to want to come to Bolton and I'm sure we can afford him
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uh he turned out to be an absolute Delight to deal with he was he was not
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he was not inexpensive but nothing like as bad as we feared he would be okay um
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and I spoke to him personally first and said look this is my family's money this
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is really important um it's clearly a long way from California so if you're
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going to do it will you can I guarantee will you guarantee me you'll give it 110% and he said this was where the
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professionalism came in he said you have my word if I come over and do this I will make it an
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absolute success and he was true to his word and after that subsequently had
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that conversation with everybody we've used um including Disney who have the uh
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rights for the Muppets um and um they've all been terrific so it was a it was
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start an idea from many many years ago using the family and then he then tried
18:25
to make us famous but not losing the family and as as as I've always said as
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long as people laugh with us or with me in this case then I'm quite happy to
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play the sort of cameo role yeah if anybody started laughing at me I'd drop in a heartbeat because it doesn't
18:43
reflect what we're like as people because obviously getting Stallone and Sam Jackson and George Clooney and
18:49
Robert dairo onto your adverts as you said it's not going to be inexpensive yeah but has it paid off financially for
18:56
orits yeah I mean to use a very very famous quote from a ex from a boltonan
19:02
of of the past uh Lord liehu is that 50% of my advertising works I just can't
19:09
tell you which 50% but what I can tell you is that if we didn't do it the business wouldn't be in the position
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that it's in now yeah we don't make any white label product private label which only a branded business and in are in
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fmcg goods and in Bakery particularly that's highly unusual so we are we we've
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really put our money where our mouth is and it's given us a l a level of Fame I mean I I was in I was visiting
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friends up in in Scotland last weekend and sat down having a a a beer at the
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end of the day and a chap IO came in and you know just think that Sam Jackson
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that's buing this is at the top of a Glenn in the middle of nowhere it's work
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then yeah so you know okay this Chap's a an acquaintance I won't call him a
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friend I've met him before first thing he said that it's working that's quite something so come on then who's the next
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celebrity Taylor Swift no um she'd need a police escort to get to me and I'm not
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in a position to influence that so I won't be able to go there I'm afraid no we haven't made any decision we're 150
20:21
years old in 2026 so all the focus now is on what are we going to do for that and I actually
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had a meeting yesterday about it um at some stage you know when you've had the
20:33
roster we've had it becomes more and more challenging to fill uh and what I don't want to do is drop down a level
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because you can't get anybody else I'd also really like a female and I'd really like a
20:45
Brit but that's easier said than done if you ask if you ask men who they would
20:52
like the list of of of potential females to play that part is very different if
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you than if you ask women and I don't know why that is but
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most men want younger and they tend to judge them on different attributes than
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most of the women do I'm picking my words very carefully here so at the moment we're being very careful about
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how we do it but because of the 150th uh event then we're we're sort of
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we're not rushing so we're genuinely will are having a bit of a rethink let's
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talk about that historical Legacy then since you brought it up 150 years in
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2026 do you feel as the chairman of wton as being a fifth generation waron a
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sense of responsibility to maintain your family's Legacy because you're not just the boss of a historic company it's your
21:51
family yeah I mean yeah of course you do but you don't think about it but you do
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I mean look I I was looking at it's like any any generational change in any
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business or anything you know I was born who I was I didn't choose this and I
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think that people oh it's all right for you you know you've had a leg well it's what you do with the leg it's not
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whether you're born with it because there loads and loads and loads of only 3% of family businesses get past the
22:20
third generation yeah how many businesses have been started since 1876
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Millions so to get to the point where you're driven by the family and its
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values and success of the family to get another generation isn't is a is a bit of a
22:38
thing in the sense that it becomes quite an important motivation to you but it creates a culture in the organization I
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think that we've tried to use uh without being sort of paternalistic about it but
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create an environment that's different than other people's because we think it gives us a competitive Advantage it's
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quite self- serving um but we we we are um yeah we employ 5,000 people so we've
23:06
got 5,000 people responsible you know homes you've got to think about and I think that what we try and do is create
23:13
an environment where you know you work for us you drive one of our vans and it it's 6 o' on a
23:21
Tuesday in November and it your alarm goes off at 2:30 in the morning you look outside and it's raining
23:29
most people God I really don't want to go but I think if you can pro paint a
23:35
create an environment where people understand what the Company's trying to achieve that the people that in my case
23:42
happen to be an owner of the business really care about what happens then they
23:48
might just go well yeah but actually I really like the people I'm working for they're very clear about what we're
23:53
trying to achieve and well I'm awake now I'll get up
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and I think just that little bit of 1% extra by I don't I'm not worried about
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you know I don't have a job title on my business card because the clue is in the name and I just think it's how you
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behave is it's this ability for that to be understood and that's how everybody
24:19
is expected to behave now if you get it 80% right 80% of the time that's about
24:25
as good as it gets so you shouldn't you know you shouldn't I don't shoot for
24:30
Perfection if you can't but in fact you've got to keep the business going we had a few changes a couple of years ago
24:38
and um I went back into to do a sort of more leadership role for 12 months while
24:44
we recruited a new managing director and I can remember going to visit our
24:49
distribution Depot in Howden which is on the Humber over in hul I've not been for
24:55
a couple of years I went to see the guys I've trying do this all all over the business and I do a Q&A with the workforce they can ask me anything I
25:02
give them a sort of 20 minute Prejudice view of the world talk about customers how we're doing and then I'll have 40
25:09
minutes of questions um about how we're doing what we got planned and I got an email
25:14
following from a guy who recently joined us and his role was basically filling
25:20
the vehicles when they came back in from their roots and keeping the place tidy and he just and I put it up on the
25:26
screen for we had a management meeting to put it on the screen and it basically
25:32
said we're we know what you're trying to do and we're all behind you and this guy
25:37
swept the floor I mean he we fill Vehicles so if he understands then we're
25:42
doing something right how much bonus did you give him that year I met him funny enough I never I didn't meet him at the
25:48
time but about three weeks ago I was doing the similar thing in our Baker in Whitefield and he was there can't said
25:54
alone and so you know it it resonated with him as a new employer and he was 40
26:00
years old he wasn't like he was 18 so it's it's the bonuses in the fact
26:07
that they know what they're meant to be doing yeah rather than when your dad
26:12
retired yeah and he you stepped up to lead the business alongside your cousins yeah was that an over over overing
26:21
experience for you were you worried about it were you intimidated uh probably um the three of of us so Brett
26:30
Ross and I um grew up Loosely together not we weren't bezzies but we were
26:36
Loosely together um we've had an incredibly good working relationship all
26:42
our adult lives um we we don't we've never really socialized together because
26:49
we we used to be working together all the time uh but we you know we we've
26:54
remained friends we're very complimentary to each other and the three of
27:00
us not you know if everybody wanted to be Finance director it would probably be a bit of a challenge yeah but we've
27:06
never done that so we have all known that by as a trio we'd be more successful than if you know we were all
27:13
trying to do the same role I think when Dad and the other
27:18
three family members of the last generation retired we couldn't get them out the door fast enough you know
27:24
because we thought by then we were all Geniuses and be it and we've now got
27:29
three of the Next Generation in pushing you out who are the same age as we were when we were pushing them out and that's
27:36
happening again and two of them are mine I've got identical Sons who've just joined the business and I get that
27:42
completely and it'll be you know the it's absolutely right that you know I
27:48
don't work full-time in conventional sence like most people do now but you know I'm 67 so I've probably done 40
27:54
done 45 years so I probably deserve not to be there fulltime but I still love it as much as I've ever done but there is a
28:01
time you have to you know you have to let somebody else uh have a crack out it
28:06
but was it intimidating I don't think so because I've grown up with it yeah I'd always I don't people say did you expect
28:13
to go in it well probably yeah but I didn't I was a sales rep living in bed
28:19
and breakfast all over the country on my own that wasn't great fun so when the
28:24
opportunity came back because some people you know they join the family business and they go towards the top you know they don't have a a hard life do
28:30
you think you did the hard yards before no not particular no no no I you had an easy ride I I don't I don't think I I've
28:39
I've worked hard but I've not found it hard work I I you know I I enjoy it as much
28:46
now as I've ever done it's a privilege yeah I really genuinely mean that I I it's only in later life have I
28:53
realized I used to worry about not working hard and then I realized I lik I was doing so much it wasn't hard work do
29:00
that make sense did you ever feel that you know you you were never going to get turned down for a job at won were you so
29:08
you had an easy in yeah yeah but the pressure to be S to to for
29:14
it to work is greater on a family member than it is on a professional would your dad have fired you you wer very good I
29:21
honestly couldn't answer that question I really genuinely don't I think it's very interesting as
29:29
we're bringing we've got a new generation as our reference um three 31
29:35
year old men who are all experienced and capable um you've got to have quality
29:42
Prof a business our size you've got to have quality professional people around you who will be honest and say you know
29:49
little John is just not going to be quite good enough and and I think that's part of the role of the top
29:56
Professionals in our business H because it's not easy to run a family-owned business you look at w Co and and
30:02
countless others that are fored by the wayside yeah it's not easy is it no and that's my 3% point you know because just
30:10
because you happen to be called Wilkinson you know you might be interested in other things and go the
30:16
business because you've got to and your mind's always on racing Yachts yeah or you know being a medic but you've had
30:24
to go into the family business I didn't have anything else to do so thought I better be good at this were you always
30:30
going to go in was it always your your plan I can't remember it's so bloody long ago I can't really remember I think
30:36
so but I think it was more circumstance in the sense that i' I've been living in these bed and breakfasts all over the
30:42
place uh on my Todd and I was getting a bit sick of it and then an opportunity
30:48
presented itself we were I mean we're we're talking about us starting to do with supermarkets which sounds a bit odd
30:55
now but we were literally at the very very beginning of that I mean when I joined the business I used to drive
31:01
around in an escort van Ford Escort van wearing a white coat going visiting
31:06
customers that was my first job but it was a way of understanding but i' worked in there as a stuent I used to go into
31:13
the bakery in Bolton with my dad when I was three and four years old so it' always been there and and you know it's
31:20
interesting talking to Harry and Jack my boys uh who are now in the business that
31:26
they've had very very different sort of live work lives in their 20s than we had what I had worked
31:33
for me what we were very keen that they got a different experience to us because
31:40
the business is so different than it was 40 years ago um you know we it was a
31:46
very diverse business with a bakery business at the center whereas now we're just the big relatively big siiz bakery
31:54
business can you imagine a life where wton didn't exist and that wasn't the
31:59
plan for you and you were going to do another job can you imagine yourself in another job in in another industry I
32:05
would I've always fancied myself I mean I've enjoyed the marketing of the business and advertising the business
32:12
that's where I'd have ended up selling my commercial you know if you if I was
32:18
if I wasn't called chairman uh and I had to so historically I was joint managing
32:24
director and my brief was all the commercial sign so outside customers um I would find working in a
32:32
bakery that's where I'd have gone yeah I'd have been a commercial being in another probably I'd like to have
32:38
thought working for myself at some stage have you spent time on the factory floor when I was a student yeah what are your
32:45
bakery skills like uh I can bake bread yeah I I wouldn't uh if anybody ask me
32:50
what I do I always say I'm a baker yeah um I to bra yeah of course I do but I
32:55
don't uh uh I and I go around the bakeries I'm going to Newcastle tomorrow
33:01
um we have our gluten-free bakeries there um I'll spend the day there and I'll go in the bakery but um the last
33:08
thing they need is the chairman come and enroll this SE I'm going you do in this R not tempted to go on great Rich bake off then you're absolutely right as
33:16
wonderful program as it is it ain't for me you said that you don't socialize
33:21
with your cousins because you work together yeah obviously it's a family business everybody's involved everybody's got a stake in its future I
33:28
suppose is it difficult to separate family life and business I mean you're
33:33
not talking about family you're not talk about work over Christmas dinner are you um it's never been a it's never
33:41
really been a problem I think what happens is that depending on how you're
33:47
made some people I spoke to a guy this morning who's a family business owner very
33:54
capable family business this this gentle is over 80 years old and the detail of
34:02
which he had about what was happening in his business was far far greater than the detail I would have about my
34:09
business um and I just think it means I've never worried about the business
34:17
it's I'm not somebody who lies awake at night worrying about the business what you're very conscious of is it is with
34:24
you all the time all the time a bit you you know being like in the highlands and
34:31
a guy walking in how many other people do you know where that would happen I mean in my case you know I don't know
34:37
anybody else who will be in the middle of nowhere and somebody who you've met before comes in and Mak reference to it
34:42
so you get very used to that and some people might find that really difficult doesn't bother me in the slightest and
34:49
I'm not a worrier but then of course the main way of not worrying is to is to
34:56
have a degree of success yeah cuz then you're not worried it's a privileged position to be in is it it wasn't going
35:02
so well you'd be worrying about but but so the motivation is to make sure that you're doing all right so you don't need
35:08
so you're not worry does that sort of yeah it's quite circular really yeah um but but the
35:15
we're a very simple organization um and um I have no interest in making it
35:21
complicated do you think trying to keep waron Simple over the decades in 50
35:28
years almost has helped it survive so long I mean what's the secret behind that longevity um I think that there
35:36
the I can only really speak from my own experience I yeah I can't really talk about my father my grandfather or my
35:43
great-grandfather but the in certainly in our experience we inherited as I
35:49
mentioned a very diverse business which we cloes sold remodified and ended up with what
35:56
what people know today um I would glibly say I'm only capable
36:03
of holding one thought in my head at any one time so I know my limitations and I
36:08
know that I can't understand it's a bit like you doing
36:14
this I would not understand anybody wanting to take on a role and not
36:20
wanting to be the best at it I just don't get that so depends wherever you
36:26
are in the food chain you know so if you call waron and waron the motivation to make a success of that
36:34
burns incredibly deeply and to achieve that we turn our stock over 363 days a
36:42
year we deliver to in excess of 19,000 calls a day we to we make over 800 million
36:50
products a year and at retail sales we're one of only five companies that
36:57
sell a billion pounds worth of retail revenue and we're the only British
37:03
business that achieves that cuz the others are Coke PepsiCo Nestle Cy All
37:10
American or swiss all of that come is a byproduct of running a good business we never set out
37:16
to achieve that what we said is let let's create a great set of values work damn hard give people Clarity and
37:24
hopefully that will lead to success but it is a very very focused business you
37:29
talk about values is that the wton family values we had the boss of being Q
37:35
on a previous episode and he talked about how he wanted the culture of b q to be like a family yeah some people
37:42
take that as a red flag because businesses aren't families your family is your family but your wton is obviously a family business that must
37:48
have an impact on its culture okay so if if you and I or anybody here were to
37:54
write down if I ask you to write down your family Valu I would get I would Hazard a guess that
38:01
you'd have trust ambition
38:07
care in quality is one of ours so when we were oming and aring about family
38:13
value about our values you know it's became quite fashionable to have a set of values um uh we decided that after much
38:21
ofing and ouring well actually the most sensible thing to do was write down what we consider as a family the most
38:27
important values to us funnily enough they ended up being very very similar to
38:32
what you would do or or you know ter of who you've been dealing with and part of
38:38
the thinking is that as a family business having family values that
38:45
resonate with people is sort of sensible but also it in simple
38:52
terms back to my halfast 2 in the morning in November I don't want to an
38:57
environment where people come to work having to become something different when they leave home it's much easier if
39:05
you can behave like you behave at home where you care about your family and then you come to work and you care about
39:12
your family it's just a different family so if if you if you're asking people to be tough or you know we're amb you we're
39:21
we're aggressive yeah but you're not in the right place not with us yeah it's a
39:26
nonsense in my view we want people who go to work and go yeah I get this completely and by the way I like most of
39:32
the people I don't like all of them but I like the people we have a bit of fun and but we take our job really seriously
39:38
because we know that's the that's the message that comes from the from the owners how important is it to you that
39:46
waron remains a family-owned business very why is that because it's
39:54
Unique um it's it means that if it the
39:59
we've done you know we've done very well financially out of it uh we we've achieved a lot but we' we've done well
40:06
out of it um I don't see I don't see any attraction
40:12
whatsoever of not being a private family business I just don't see the benefit
40:17
the the reason people don't do it is to get enough money to go and do other things I don't want to do anything else
40:25
never been tempted no no no we don't we we made it very clear that the business
40:30
is not for sale you had offers approaches we oh over the years of course we have but not anymore nobody
40:36
bothers anymore no and but but it one of the guys that I met very early
40:44
on when talking to advertising agencies was a a chap planner what they call planner and Adam was a super bright
40:50
fellow uh and ended up working becoming an author and I remember him telling me a story and I'll I'll I'll sort of I'll
40:57
embellish the story a bit to make get my point over um but the classic sort of British entrepreneur comes in and he
41:05
builds his business and at 40 he gets a pro and he sells it and you know he
41:11
suddenly gets his 25 million quid or whatever how much he gets and for years
41:16
him and his family have gone to we'll say Barbados for holidays and they go
41:21
off to Barbados and they say this is wonderful and I've now got a load of money tell you what why don't we buy a
41:26
villa the equivalent so they go and buy a vill and Adam told told me this story which
41:32
really stuck with me is that he got a letter that came back and said when you get there there's no there there sold
41:39
his Viller and came back cuz he was sat there going what do I do now yeah I've got a load of money but I'm Bor rigid
41:46
and so I you know it doesn't appeal to me in the slightest because if you are
41:52
if you are in a position to be able to hopefully have a bit of a a track record
41:58
then you have the flexibility to to mold the job where you add most value to the
42:04
business if you don't want to work but you'd rather sit on in the villain Barbed that's fine there's nothing wrong
42:10
with that it's just not how we're wired talk to me about your leadership
42:16
style then because you strike me as a straight talking norer yeah yeah um I think
42:24
uh I would well we've been chutting for 40 minutes You' just that's what it is
42:31
yeah that's what it is I don't have a style no I just not read a management
42:36
book not the only author I've ever read that I that I give to people give to my
42:43
sons give it to anybody who listen to me is a Chuck called Jim Collins who wrote a book called good to great and how the
42:49
Mighty Fall and in there talks about businesses that have some that you'll
42:56
remember that are no longer here some that you have heard of and thought they're really boring but what's made
43:02
them tick and that's the only thing I've ever really taken on board uh looking at
43:08
these businesses that have been around have continued to invest to talks about
43:15
a flywheel and keeping this thing turning and the and the momentum that you need in a business to keep the to
43:23
keep it going is something that I think uh but I I think my style is to paint a
43:29
picture that people can understand and then you some people might think it's
43:34
all a bit soft and nonsense um I but it's I'd like to think it very straightforward yeah you imagine going
43:42
in Time Machine going back to when you were 23 just joining the business what piece of advice would you give your
43:48
younger self I think what I learned and it's SL I'm not I'm not being a politician and avoiding any
43:54
question uh I think what I've learned learn is that people say you should find your
44:02
passion I'd be slightly different I'd find something that you
44:08
enjoy doing and become passionate about it
44:13
because I wanted to be a footballer but I wasn't good enough Bolton obviously
44:19
obviously but you know as a as a kid you want we all want to be a Fatman or footballer or train driver you I wanted
44:24
to be probably a sportsman but I was never going to be good but I ended up in a role and then over
44:30
time became passionate about it yeah because it's my point about you know you want to be the best of what you do and
44:36
you want to be it the downside of being is that you
44:44
the the potential downside is is that you're never never satisfied plus is you're never
44:51
satisfied so you know you know you as soon as you as soon as you think you've
44:56
cracked it you're dead in the water cuz everybody's moving around you yeah you
45:01
all your competition are doing this all the time so if you're not going forward then you you're basically going
45:07
backwards and if I was a new starter first day at won's on the factory floor you came up to me said Hi how are you
45:14
what's the bit of advice you're giving me if you get stuck in and and and make
45:19
it your business to understand how the business works there's a lot of opportunity here and I think you'll
45:25
probably enjoy yourself and we've talked a lot about the generations of wons obviously the sixth
45:32
are coming through about to push you out absolutely onto that beach I'm rightly
45:37
so what's the advice that you're giving to the sixth generation
45:45
um I I think that the best the
45:52
best the advice is how you behave it's not I don't come to you and say Jack uh
46:00
Harry Jimmy this is how you should do it it's how you behave they understand this is the the
46:08
advice is this is work for these guys what we've now got to do is our own
46:14
version of that don't pay the don't play the big I am you know don't insist on a
46:22
parking space at the front door uh you know don't play the role
46:27
everybody knows who you are so you don't have to go around saying you know everybody knows
46:36
so as as I get to the end of my career one of the things I keep telling myself and anybody will listen to me is it
46:44
takes a big man to be invisible and I can remember how my father behaved when he stepped down and
46:51
I intend to do the same thing with my with my sons and but they
46:57
advice is not something they're 31 year old men you
47:03
know I I tell this to anybody who'll listen you have you heard of a chat called David Sterling David Sterling was
47:09
the man who one of the men who created the SAS David Sterling when he created
47:14
the SS was 25 um there's a very famous movie called
47:20
The Heroes of Tark which you may have seen which is based on a true story during the second world war where some
47:26
Norwegians who were based in the Brits were were parachuted into Norway and for
47:32
all intense purposes You could argue uh drove a coaching horses through Hitler's
47:37
attempt to get enough heavy water to make an atomic bomb they were 21 22 years old so at 31 they're grown-ups
47:46
they don't need their dad and I do it that way by the way Harry this is the way to do it so they learn by by
47:55
behaving by how how you behave and they now know how to behave so I think I
48:01
think that's sort of you now then this work for me lad and you better do it
48:06
this way otherwise it'll all fail well they're completely different to me so they should make their own minds up are
48:12
you going to have to gag yourself then when you do step down and I don't think so no I really don't you got self control if they come along and say how
48:17
would you do what did you think about this I'm very happy to share but I will not go I will not go critiquing yeah no
48:25
it's it would it's just unfair yeah so what does the feature look like for
48:30
Orson then can you sit here and guarantee in another 150 years I can't guarantee you 150 weeks um I think what
48:39
it would be is that we have I was talking to rmd who's an extremely
48:45
capable woman um who's joined the business as MD 12 months ago about the
48:50
opportunity of the business going forward and in my career and we've never been short of
48:56
things to do I don't think I've seen as many opportunities as we are now looking
49:02
at and I mean there are so many things that you could do having got to the
49:08
position that we've got into as a a sort of reasonably well-known National brand
49:13
it opens up you know if you think of baking I don't are you married I am okay so you you're you go home tonight and
49:21
said oh by the way um wton are going to start making cakes I'd be surprised if
49:28
your wife went what they doing that for if you went home and said wton are going
49:34
to go into podcast she' be like what's all that about so there's a natural
49:40
opportunity for the business and the brand based around baking there's
49:46
geography we're selling gluten-free bread and some non-gluten free bread in the Emirates
49:53
now this I find this hard to I can't believe this we're now selling wotton's
50:00
glutenfree a range of w wton gluten-free bread
50:05
nationally in the coal supermarket chain throughout Australia you wouldn't have
50:11
predicted that when I would have predicted but that a year ago no and now we've got frozen containers going over
50:19
the feedback is I've never seen consumer feedback like I've seen it is remarkable
50:25
and I I mean if you'd have suggested that to me 5 years ago I'd have had you sectioned I'd have said you were bloody
50:31
Bonkers and now here we are doing it and I think that makes me think God this is
50:36
just you know my role's been and the three of us our role has been to turn us
50:42
into what we are now and the opportunities for the next generation are to do their thing um I mean I would
50:49
I think there are certain things that we do and I would strongly advise against doing doing other things but
50:57
they all know that because they know it's very key to you know suddenly don't suddenly start making something cheap
51:02
because you think you can get a bit of extra volume I think that would be unwise brilliant Jonathan wton thank you
51:08
very much for coming on board and and covered yeah very you're very welcome I thoroughly enjoy it cheers thank you cheers
51:23
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