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Robinhood boss on why UK public should trust trading and investing app after Gamestop saga
Oct 7, 2024
In this episode of Boardroom Uncovered, the boss of Robinhood UK Jordan Sinclair talks about his journey from South Africa to the City of London, how the trading and investing app is taking on the likes of Hargreaves Lansdown and AJ Bell as well as what kind of a leader he is.
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Produced by: Jon Robinson, Emmanuel Nwosu, THG Studios
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0:00
I think the focus needs to be on London and the UK being its own champion and being its own story
0:05
I think it's always, there's always an opportunity to look at others and say we could be like them, we could do it like this
0:11
But I think we need to create the UK way. And I think there's always stuff to do in a role like this
0:16
There's always stuff you want to do. I mean, the list never ends. And that's the exciting bit
0:20
You're passionate about it. You want the best for your customers. You want to achieve great things
0:26
But you also have to balance important things in your life like your kids and your family
0:30
and friends. There's so many great stories of the fintech businesses, your monzo's and your starlings
0:35
Ten years ago, people probably thought, oh, they'll never get there. They're reaching levels of scale where they are competing
0:42
You've got companies like wise. There's many a great success story in the UK
0:48
I think we just have to keep focusing on the positives. If you keep doing that, you really do create a successful operating environment
1:00
Welcome to Border Uncovered, powered by CityA.M. I'm John Robinson, CityA.M.'s UK editor
1:09
and today my guest is the president of Robin Hood, UK, Jordan Sinclair
1:14
The South African took up his role with the US trading platform when it launched in the UK earlier this year
1:20
in the aftermath of various high-profile cases, including the GameStop saga. The UK launch has been built as an attempt to help clean up Robin Hood's reputation
1:29
but many have questioned whether its model is suitable for this market
1:34
So, why should the UK public trust Robin Hood with their savings
1:39
And will the company be successful in creating a sustainable business in this country
1:44
Without any further delay, let's dive in. Jordan, thank you very much for coming on boarding one cover today
1:50
Really appreciate you coming in. Thank you for having me. Always like to start with a big question, one that we can really get our teeth into
1:58
So Jordan Sinclair, President of Robin Hood UK, what's your favourite Robin Hood film
2:05
I'd have to say the animated version, actually. Oh, really? Yeah, of all of them, I think just the representation of the characters as a big bear or a fox is actually my best representation of it
2:16
My team joke that I should try and claim Kevin Costner, but my wife disagreed with that one
2:21
So I think I'm going to go with the animated version. Surely that's the best one, surely, Robin Hood Prince of Thieves
2:25
It's got to be. I'm going to stick with the animated version. Controversial in my view, but fair enough
2:30
What character do you think you would be in the Robin Hood mythology
2:36
Sure. I'm going to have to actually take this one. I've forgotten his name, the Big Bear. Little John
2:41
Little John. There we go. Yeah. So can we take that one again? What is it about Little John that you think personifies you
2:48
I think actually that representation of that Big Bear, I think that's friendly, kind of authentic disposition
2:56
but also what the big bear could be quite, I don't know, I have a bit of force, but being able to just manage that
3:01
and just be a friend and someone that supports along the way. I don't know. I think that big bear was a good representation of little John
3:07
Do you think that sums you up to there and somebody who is obviously, you know, very welcoming and approachable
3:15
but then also you've got the steely side to get to the position that you've got to? I think authenticity is an important part of being a leader
3:22
and that form of inspiration can come through many, different ways. I think it's how you treat people, it's how you create that team environment
3:30
I think your ambition, your competitiveness to kind of be better for your customers, do better
3:37
to set targets that are ambitious. And I think for us in particular, it's a large market opportunity
3:42
and just relentlessly go after that. So I think that there's many ways you can inspire a team
3:48
but I think also being an authentic team member as well as leader is a great way to bring them on that
3:52
journey with you, especially when you're building something from scratch. And also when you get to
3:57
those milestones, then the team feels like they've actually contributed. And they celebrated knowing
4:02
that they've got us there as well as me helping them to get there. There's all one of the
4:06
theory, isn't it, trying to motivate people that you can read as many management books as possible
4:09
and be inspired by people who've above you. But there's always going to be members of the team that
4:14
are more difficult to inspire than others. What do you do in that situation
4:18
I think for us what we're trying to achieve is really helping customers get access to investing
4:23
and growing wealth over the longer term. And often the best place to start is actually grounded in what the customer needs and customer research
4:30
What I find a good way is actually to make sure that the team members attend the customer research
4:35
sessions and in person being part of it. It's amazing how sometimes for team members that one snippet or that one customer who's
4:42
maybe a bit frustrated actually or on the other side actually loved what they're doing can just
4:46
resonate and be that anchor point on almost a tiebreaker sometimes on decisions to say well let's go back
4:52
to the research let's see what the customers have told us and that really helps i think just remind
4:57
some of the team members of what we're building why you have to have a long-term view and
5:02
why it's sometimes hard actually to disrupt an industry it isn't an easy journey but if you keep at
5:08
it and have that long-term view you get there you mentioned the words ambition as well would you
5:12
describe yourself as an ambitious person yes i think so i've always always
5:16
I felt that I've had the experience and a kind of foundational setup from an education and a life experience to go far in life
5:24
And I've been given that opportunity, which is fantastic. I think you just have to work hard and create those opportunities for yourself
5:31
I think in this sector in particular, Robin Hood was always the pioneer that looked at this large market opportunity
5:37
looked at what customers weren't getting in terms of a fair shot in the US 10 years ago
5:42
The market looked pretty much like the UK market does today. today, high account minimums, high fees, your large incumbents dominating a market, and
5:52
the average person just not able to access investing and take part in growing their wealth
5:58
just to achieve their goals, be it retirement or buying a house or just as a portion of their portfolio
6:05
Fast forward 10 years and what Robin Hood achieved was that the whole market moved to a commission
6:09
free model, account minimums became the standard. forward and we achieved actually taking market share from these large
6:17
incumbents and capturing large account sizes almost 130 billion in assets over
6:22
24 million customers listed business and having that ambition in order to just
6:28
relentlessly go after that when I'm sure many 10 years ago said you guys are
6:33
just a small fintech or you'll never get there and looking at the UK market I
6:38
have the same vision for Robin Hood we've started and we've launched our first
6:42
market outside of the US which is very exciting and that's a great milestone but it's just a milestone it's a start
6:49
and what we have to do is just build the product in a way that continues to innovate
6:53
continues to localize for UK customers and in 10 years time perhaps we we're exactly in the
6:59
same position where the market looks very different and customers are getting a fairer deal
7:03
we'll get on to Robin Hood and how it's growing in the UK after launching early this year
7:08
but I want to take you back to South Africa tell me about your
7:13
childhood there and growing up did you always want to move abroad to work that
7:18
was the point I love South Africa I still do love South Africa I had a great
7:22
childhood I've fantastically fortunate to have amazing schooling and education opportunities thank you to my to my parents for that I think home is always going to be South Africa for me I lived abroad for almost 12 years but it still home My wife South African Our kids are born here but we still kind of think of them as South African kids too
7:43
Springbok jerseys for Christmas. I had two little girls. They did get Springbok jerseys
7:48
So they'll be Springbok supporters. I'm sure they'll want to watch England too, so we'll have to figure out
7:53
We had twins, so maybe one in each. Yeah, maybe. We'll see. And I think for us in South Africa, we always kind of look up at the world
8:00
and being far down south and say, well, there is this big world out there. Let's go experience it. Let's
8:06
take our skills and have knowledge from home and see how we fare abroad. And I think that
8:12
global opportunity versus just a national opportunity is always intriguing for us
8:18
Also, the way we're brought up at home is very entrepreneurial and very just get it done
8:24
We don't have a benefit system or a safety net of perhaps what more developed
8:30
countries do have it very much is just find a way get it done i think that kind of humble
8:36
approach to to teaming and leading and achieving is is very south african in us it's and you see it
8:43
in some of our sports teams you're not celebrated for kind of doing your job but you're there to
8:48
help everyone achieve it and when you do it it very much is we achieved it together and and that's
8:53
the beauty of it and i think that's always something that at home we we know we can take somewhere else
8:59
and just really give it a go. And I think that's just part of us
9:02
So do you always think that you were going to have to move out away from South Africa to progress your career
9:07
and in the way that you wanted to? Because you obviously say you are ambitious. But did you always think that there was a ceiling in South Africa
9:14
that you then had to move? No, I don't think there was a ceiling. I mean, I think the opportunities in South Africa are enormous
9:19
And I'm friends that I studied with together then and gone on to do amazing things and credit to them
9:24
I don't think we ever feel like we have to move. I think it's just a feeling that you want to travel and you want to explore the world
9:31
And I was very lucky to travel a lot when I was younger. And I think that feeling to just be adventurous is in you and you just want to go and see
9:39
And moved across to the UK. I studied in Edinburgh for a year
9:44
I spent time in South Korea and I taught English there for a little while and traveled
9:49
I then spent some time in Oslo. And then moved back to the UK
9:52
So I kind of did a bit of a round trip and I think all those cumulative
9:56
experiences really do set you up well when you actually moved to the UK
10:02
So actually, I'm going to make this home and give it a shot. Moving to the UK, obviously coming from South Africa and being in Norway for a bit
10:11
what was your perception of the city of London? I mean, it was really exciting for me
10:15
I joined Monitor Deloitte at the time in their financial services strategy team
10:19
And we're working with the largest banks and asset managers at the time and really exposed
10:24
to all the things that I had been reading. out from South Africa or we had kind of seen businesses that something to aspire to work with
10:32
or with or at some point in time. So for me that was the great opportunity. I think businesses at
10:38
scale and I went on to work with Barclays for a long time and I think that's a great lesson
10:43
for me is at scale. How did these business operate? How do you think about your costs and your
10:48
customers and building your capital structure and almost an organizational structure at
10:52
far significant scale to perhaps where we are today? But thinking, about that already for when you get there
10:59
There seems to be over the last few years, probably since the Brexit referendum, that people within the city of London, there's been this anxiety about its place in the world
11:08
you know, and being overtaken by different markets. As sort of an outsider, but you've been here for a few years now
11:15
what do you think, do you think the reputation of the city of London is justified
11:19
or do you think we've got maybe slightly inflated ecos? No, I think it is justified, and I think Brexit on
11:26
no Brexit relative to the rest of Europe and in terms of the stock exchange in terms of the
11:31
businesses and success stories I think London continues to punch above its weight
11:35
I think the focus needs to be on London and the UK being its own champion and being its own
11:40
story. I think it's always there's always an opportunity to look at others and say we could be
11:45
like them, we could do it like this, but I think we need to create the UK way. And I think a lot of
11:49
the initiatives that are underway and there's champions out there, people like Mark Austen and Julia
11:55
Hoggart and who are out there telling this positive story about the UK and there's a lot of
12:00
capital markets related initiatives and you add them all up and think you do continue to punch
12:04
about your weight and I think there's so many great stories of the fintech businesses your
12:09
monzos and your starlings 10 years ago people probably thought oh they'll never get there
12:14
they're reaching levels of scale where they are competing you've got companies like wise
12:19
there's many a great success story in the UK so I think we just have to keep focusing on the
12:24
positives. If you keep doing that, you really do create a successful operating environment
12:31
Do you think Britain is good at championing its success stories there
12:35
You know, lots of people say that the UK is not really open for business, not really welcoming
12:39
There's lots of American companies, you know, like Robin Hood coming over and thinking twice
12:44
about setting up in the UK because we tend to dump things down and we sort of, you know
12:50
pile on companies and overly negative. That seems to be the perception lots of people have
12:54
Well, for us, it was a great place to expand. It's our first brokerage market outside of the US, and it has been what we expected it to be
13:02
I mean, it's a great place for talent. As I said, some fantastic businesses that have grown in the UK, so I think it's no surprise that it's a great place for talent
13:10
It's a strong regulatory environment. It's a great place from a market opportunity size perspective
13:16
The retail investment space continues to grow. The UK is underinvested relative to both of ECD countries and the US
13:24
So for us, it's a great place to start and to expand to
13:28
So I think all the ingredients are there. What makes Robin Hood different, though, if I'm a UK investor, never been invested before
13:37
and I'm having a look at the different companies that are available in the UK to investors
13:42
What makes Robin Hood stand out? Why should I trust you with my savings
13:46
Yeah, and trust is a great thing that customers are interested in, right? I think what's important is that their life savings are with the platform that will be around
13:54
for the horizon of their life savings. I think having that scale in the US
13:58
being a listed business, demonstrating that maturity of a 10-year-old platform that we can bring over here
14:05
certainly does give customers that feeling that they can trust us. And trust is not something that ever stops
14:11
You have to earn that every single day with your customers through your customer service
14:15
through the way you delight them through your user interface, and just giving them great service
14:20
But when we spoke to UK customers, we really wanted to understand what you're going to understand wanted to understand what needs weren't being met because there are other
14:26
platforms out there but you gave that example of you wanted to start invest
14:30
there's generally more traditional platforms that are going to charge you 11 pounds 95 per trade they're going to then charge you another 1% on your
14:40
trade to access your Apple Amazon and video but perhaps you only wanted to
14:44
invest a hundred pounds that's quite a large barrier to just get started
14:49
investing so we've done is we've removed commissions we've also removed FX fees on US trades, but we also offer customers 5% interest on uninvested cash because what
15:00
we found is that a lot of their deposits weren't necessarily earning the interest that was
15:04
reflective of the current high rates environment but also if you haven quite reached that decision to make an investment or you still on that investment journey to get confidence or kind of make that first choice
15:17
that your money is still working hard for you. And it's never too early to start investing, I suppose
15:22
I read somewhere the other day that you talked to your young twins about investing
15:28
Is that correct? That's correct. Not one of the first things, but we opened a junior ice for them pretty soon after they were born
15:35
their Christmas present in their first year was a contribution to their junior ice
15:39
I'm sure they were delighted. They were thrilled. So for us, that's an important part of, it's how my wife grew up to from her dad
15:47
a birthday and Christmas presents, and it's the same for actually their other grandchildren. Just contributions to their savings and in an investment so that can grow over time
15:57
And it's amazing. I look at their, my wife's needs a nephew and how their portfolios have grown over time
16:02
and they don't quite realize it yet, but they will reach the age where actually that's built up quite a pot that can be theirs
16:09
that they can help them achieve some of their goals in future. I think that's probably a better option than buying another pair of shoes or another toy
16:17
And I think it's that culture of thinking about what is the next best place for me to put this excess pound or dollar
16:25
and thinking about the future and making those choices. I think in the UK in particular
16:32
is a real worry about how much customers and individuals have saved for pensions and retirement
16:39
I think the way people are living their lives now and how much they've saved for when they are
16:44
retired, it's very difficult to see that they have put enough aside
16:48
I think it's talking about that. I think that's an important part in the UK culture we can really kind of encourage
16:54
talk about investing in all spheres of life. Being at home with your kids and their junior eyes
17:00
I think what you guys... They have toys, right? They have toys, yeah. Bloomberg toys
17:08
But I do think it really does start then. I think of my own journey in investing and reading about it
17:15
and learning about it and making my first investment. It shouldn't be such a thing that you don't feel like you have access to
17:23
or that you can't get started. I think the UK as a percentage of household wealth invested in equities
17:29
It's just 11%, which is significantly off Europe and the US, which is up in the upper 30s
17:36
Why do you think that is? Some of it is cultural. The UK customer generally prefers to invest in cash deposits
17:44
Unfortunately, in the high inflationary environment, that generally means they actually aren't getting a good return over time
17:51
I think it's just knowing that you have more options besides just putting it in cash
17:55
And I think that's a bit of an education piece as well, financial literacy
17:59
And that really is a lot of room for improvement there. And the UK doesn't need to get to the upper 30s
18:05
And the US, they talk about their 401Ks from an early age
18:10
They talk about investing with their friends. They're reading about the big US stock listed companies all the time
18:16
So I think it's a bit more natural there. But here there's definitely room to grow
18:22
Let's go back to that topic of trust, because it is so important. You're asking people, use a company, any company
18:29
are asking people to trust them with their life savings. You know, however diversify that portfolio is
18:35
it's still going into your company, being handled by your company or others
18:39
But, you know, it doesn't take long on Google to find lots of sagas connected with Robin Hood in previous years
18:48
I appreciate it before you join the company, but you'll be well aware. Probably the famous one over here is GameStop
18:54
That must have an impact on Robin Hood's reputation. and you've launched in this market this year
19:01
But have you come up against people wanted to ask questions about that
19:06
concerned about getting involved in Robin Hood because of what's happened in the past
19:10
with GameStop and other incidents as well? Yeah, I think when you look at that GameStop kind of event that happened
19:18
and you take the stock name aside, I think what we did recognise is what we set out to achieve
19:23
to give retail customers access to investing was achieved. And fast forward from then till now, we actually see almost 80% of our US customers that held the GameStop position then have matured with us and still are investing with us, but they've matured into our retirement product
19:40
They hold a cash savings product of this. They're a gold subscription holder with us
19:45
And they really have come on that journey where a position like Gamesop maybe where they started investing and there's definitely pros and cons of that being your entry point
19:53
But they've been with us on that journey. And then what we've seen now is that there are customers that are interested in the volatility of a stock like that
20:02
But it's a portion of their portfolio. It's not necessarily a whole portfolio
20:06
I think you just have to show that growth and maturity. And for us as a platform, offering things like our retirement accounts in the US, really does show how we have matured as a business
20:16
It's not every business that has a Netflix documentary and a feature film about it as well
20:21
It was a huge event, a global news story. that must have a long-term impact in terms of the number of people that would consider looking at Robin Hood
20:31
even in the UK, that you've only just launched in. Of course, as you said, building trust takes time, and I think that's an important part of us of telling our Robin Hood story here in the UK
20:41
That's just a movie, and again, as I say, demonstrated access to being able to invest
20:47
But for us, it's just demonstrating with customers how we do build trust with them, how we offer them support
20:52
how if they need to speak to someone, they can actually pick up the phone and talk to a real human with Robin Hood UK
20:58
And I think those type of differentiating factors really do help customers
21:02
because it is their life savings. So we have 24-7 chat. We have a phone line
21:07
which you can speak to agents as well. I think all of those things really do help
21:12
to kind of build that trust with customers. And in the year, I ask you something like 23 million customers
21:17
Almost 24 million customers. Almost 24 million. How's it been since you launched in the UK
21:21
How many customers have you got? moment. So we're in a blackout period at the moment as a listed company, so I can't share any
21:26
particular numbers, but we really have been happy with the growth as our first market outside of
21:31
the US. We know from customers that there's still work to do and things to add, but for us
21:37
it's a great milestone as our first market, and we just have to continue to innovate, and we offer
21:42
24-5 trading to customers. What that does is just removes things like traditional time zones
21:48
which for the UK customers, it's quite funny, right? If you want to invest in the US stock market, you need to wait until the afternoon, set your alarm for 2.30
21:59
You're probably busy at the office. 9 o'clock at night to market closed. Earning schools happen after hours
22:06
You're probably a bit like me and sometimes do stay up and listen to earning schools. But the market moves, right
22:11
And on other platforms, customers now need to wait till the next day
22:16
The market will have moved during the evening. Other events may have happened and completely have missed out on the opportunity if they did one turn
22:22
invest. So for us about entering the UK, it's through innovation and doing things differently
22:27
like that. And now the challenge is to continue to localise and give customers local products
22:32
things like an ICE tax wrapper, which is a fantastic savings and investment vehicle. And that's
22:38
kind of the next step for us on the journey. Do you think that Robin Hood has over the last few years has grown up the confetti canon for example is history Do you think the company has matured like the customers I do think there a level of maturity of us as a business I mean we were
22:53
a startup and a fintech at some point in time, and now we're a listed business with almost
22:58
$130 billion in assets. And I think some of the people we've brought on in our senior team
23:03
people like Dan Gallagher, who's the SEC commissioner, I mean, JV. McKenzie, who's come on
23:08
in our futures business and our overall international business. Steve Quirk. He's our chief brokerage officer
23:14
I think all these people kind of demonstrate that maturity as well as the business and that product set where we aren't just the equities platform for customers
23:23
We offer them a high yield savings product. They want to park their cash
23:28
We've just started a credit card in the US as well. I think that's that maturity as well
23:33
It's not just offering one product for a customer, but slowly providing them all their financial services in one place
23:40
Okay. And we talked about your ambition, but what's the ambition of Robin Hood, UK
23:45
Where do you want to be in five years' time? You said that you're here for the long term. Yeah. And what's the plan
23:49
It's twofold. And I think they do run in parallel. I mean, building a long-term profitable business is absolutely our goal for Robin Hood UK
23:56
We've demonstrated that in the US. We've had two profitable quarters. And we continue to demonstrate diversified revenue streams
24:03
So building that business here in the UK, absolutely is our goal. But what runs in parallel is non-commercial
24:09
I think that's education and really giving customers and non-customers. The tools and the information and the educational materials to really just grow
24:20
and become more familiar with financial terms. Feel more confident in investing
24:26
Making sure that your materials are available on your website to anyone. In our app, we've seen the vast majority of our customers engaged with the research
24:34
and investment tool and our learning modules. All of that is really important to us
24:39
And those goals run in parallel. And financial literacy and financial education in the UK
24:44
is a long way to go. And if we can move that needle even a little bit
24:48
for me, that that is success as well. Sometimes that's just plain language, isn't it
24:53
And just providing a glossary of terms instead of assuming that prior knowledge
24:58
That's it. It's talking to the customer in a way that the customer understands
25:01
And I think, and testing that with customers and say, we're going to explain it this way
25:06
does that actually make sense to you? And I think it is that, journey with customers and becoming that voice for them where they want to read more about
25:14
the stock market and actually where they come is our website and or in our app and can learn
25:20
I think the other piece is connecting news and what's happening in the markets to actually
25:24
individual stocks as well. We heard from UK customers that actually access to news is something
25:29
they really are struggling to make that connection. They had one app for news or they wanted
25:35
to read news somewhere and it was paywalled or it was too complicated. They had another website
25:40
They went for charting. They used one app for this, another app for that
25:44
I think I have seven. And the customers we talked to all in the same environment, seven different things. Yeah
25:50
And that's crazy. So for us, if you can make it digestible, make it understandable
25:55
and you can have it all in one place. I do think that helps the customer. I'm always interested to know how somebody in your position got there
26:03
Did you get approached for this job? Did you answer a job advert
26:06
How does that process work? It's actually quite a unique story. So my previous employer, I launched their first market outside of the UK
26:15
And I've always followed Robin Hood from an earnings perspective. I've always been an admirer of the business from 10 years ago
26:21
Even in my time at Barclays, we used to follow what Robin Hood was doing. I mean, they really were the pioneer in the market
26:27
Vlad went out to the market in our Q4 results at the beginning of 2023 and announced the ambition
26:33
that they would be live in the UK by the end of the year. and they were expanding internationally
26:37
And they'd appointed J.B. McKenzie, who's leading our international and futures business
26:43
And I reached out to J.B., and we started chatting and said, I think let's hear more about what the journey is
26:49
And we spent some time together and eventually resulted in this opportunity
26:53
which is a great opportunity. And yeah, looking forward to working for many more years together with them
26:58
And how many interviews was it? Was it some of the UK, some of the US? Did you have to fly over? The team was over here as well
27:03
So I spent some time in person. So it was great. I mean, I think that's always important, is getting to know who you work with
27:08
The UK office, we work with the US teams a lot. We're cross-functionally
27:12
I think being part of the wider group is a fantastic opportunity. And I think that's important when you do start something new
27:18
Speak to them. Understand kind of the way they work, who they are, at work, outside work
27:24
And actually, a funny story when I was chatting to J.B. on a couple calls later, he says, oh, what's on your mind
27:31
And my wife and I had actually just found out we were having twins. And I think we told my folks and maybe a few friends, not many
27:38
We were still getting over the fact that we're having twins and we're very grateful. But we kind of hope for one and we got two, which is very lucky
27:45
And we're just processing this. And anyway, so I said to J.B., I mean, we're having twins
27:51
And yeah, we're just thinking about what that means. Oh, I've got twins. So he's like, yeah, you'd be fine
27:57
And the next time he came over, he said, oh, Brits, my wife said, come, bring Brit for dinner
28:03
and let's chat about twin life and I think it's just so nice
28:07
and the next time his wife and actually his kids came over, I spent some time with them too
28:11
and all of that just makes such a difference I think there's hard work
28:15
and there's always things to do and you always want to achieve more but knowing that you have that kind of understanding
28:21
and there is always things outside of work right I think everyone's balancing that and they're equally important
28:27
and finding that balance and knowing what's important to an individual I think that's really great
28:31
how do you find that balance then. It must be a full-on job, but then obviously you've got a full-on-on-home life as well
28:38
I think it's even harder for my wife, to be honest. I think she's got the harder job than me
28:42
So I'm the lucky one in this. But you find a way, right
28:46
The mornings, I'm up with the girls. We head out every morning. We've got our favorite
28:50
coffee place. Some days we run, some days we walk. And I think that's always a great way to spend
28:55
time with them, just start the day, no matter what time it is. Some mornings they're up earlier
29:00
then they should be. Some ISO chat on the way to the coffee shop
29:04
Yeah, you can check their portfolio, just see how they think about the asset allocation over there
29:09
and they can raise an eyebrow if it's not doing as well as they thought it was
29:13
They'll be telling you which trades to make in a few years time. I'm looking forward to it. This is my wife who says to me that's your department
29:20
She's then, I don't have to listen to your long stories. But I think finding that balance is important
29:25
There's always stuff to do in a role like this. There's always stuff you want to do
29:29
I mean, the list never ends. And that's the exciting, but you're passionate about it
29:33
You want the best for your customers. You want to achieve great things
29:37
But you also have to balance important things in your life like your kids and your family and friends
29:42
And we're very lucky that we have a great support system and very fortunate with the goals
29:48
And that means when you do have time with them, you really just have to be present. And I think on the weekends as well, help out, be there, do what you can
29:56
And when you're there, I think that's important. just you don't want to miss it
30:00
And there always is a way. I always say there's more than enough hours in a day
30:05
It's just how you use them. Fantastic. Well, what a perfect way to end. Jordan, thank you very much coming on boardroom uncovered
30:10
Thank you for having
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