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Is playing The National Lottery still gambling? | Boardroom Uncovered
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Jul 23, 2025
In this episode of Boardroom Uncovered, the CEO of Allwyn UK has insisted The National Lottery is not gambling, despite the company being regulated by the Gambling Commission. Andria Vidler, who has been the head of Allwyn UK for nearly two years at the time of recording, sought to set The National Lottery apart from betting giants such as Bet365, Betfred and PaddyPower. Vidler also opened up to City AM's UK Editor and host, Jon Robinson, about her aim to encourage the British public to spend a few pounds extra on The National Lottery. The CEO said this would help Allwyn UK invest in The National Lottery, continue its digital transformation, as well as increase the amount of money donated to good causes and the prize money. Watch or listen to more Boardroom Uncovered episodes here 👇 https://linktr.ee/boardroomuncovered Get more of City AM 👇 🌐 http://www.cityam.com X(formerly Twitter): http://twitter.com/CityAM Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/cityam Instagram: http://www.instagram.com/city_am LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/company/cityam Produced by: Jon Robinson, Joseph Curay Teneda, Emmanuel Nwosu
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0:00
It's not like I don't like work. I have to limit it from 9 to5 and then I live my life.
0:05
It's a difficult line though, isn't it? Because you're essentially asking people to gamble. It's it's it's
0:10
it's a form is a form of gambling. Gambling you would claim has a skill.
0:15
There is no skill in g in lottery. The tech infrastructure we're currently working on was last updated properly in
0:22
2009. So that's when Blackberries were a thing. That's pre- Instagram, pre-streaming, that's pre iPads, it's
0:30
pre it's pre a lot of technology. Yeah, we don't have CRM at the moment. Can you
0:36
imagine another business particularly of our scale that has no form of doing CRM at the
0:43
moment. I don't have a work life balance. I have a blended life. I would always answer the phone to anybody
0:49
anytime, any day. And because I'm so happy working actually my family have
0:56
always known me to be working. It's not like I don't like work. I have to limit it from 9 to5 and then I live my life. I
1:03
fall in love with my job and then it becomes just my world.
1:09
Hello and welcome to another edition of city's boardroom uncovered with me John Robinson. My guest for this episode is
1:14
Andrew Vidler the CEO of Alwin UK the company that operates the national lottery. Alwin took over the running of
1:21
the national lottery from Camelot which had operated it since its inception in 1994 in February last year. Before
1:28
taking up her current job, Viddler worked for the likes of Capital Radio, Bow Media, EMI Records, and the BBC. So,
1:35
after almost three decades of Camelot rule, how is the new boss preparing the national lottery for the future? Without
1:42
any further delay, let's dive in. Andrea, lovely to have you on board recovered. Thank you so much for coming.
1:48
Thank you very much for inviting me. I suppose the first question, the only place I can start is what would you do
1:54
if you won the lottery? Oh my word, I can't even play. So there's no point in me even thinking
2:00
about that. We're in an imaginary world where you can. How much? 180 million.
2:07
180 million. That's a very precise number. 180 million. Um,
2:13
I would do a few things that are passion projects.
2:20
I am a real believer. I love swimming. Okay. I love swimming and um I'm a believer that every child
2:27
needs to learn how to swim. Not just for safety reasons, but for health, mental well-being. Um, I think
2:34
it's really important. Um, and I don't think enough kids get the chance to learn to swim. So, I'd do something with
2:41
that. That'd be one of the first things I do. Yeah. Okay. Uh pay off mortgages,
2:47
you know, basic things like that. 180 million. Then I'd probably uh get my husband would say enough. Now
2:55
we need to do something sensible. Now we need to organize. Um, and I
3:02
probably there's a lady, um, who probably should remain anonymous, but there's a lady who won the National
3:09
Lottery in some of its first few years in Northern Ireland who has been
3:15
unbelievably generous. She has spent years since giving back, sharing her and
3:22
investing. And I think I think the the ripple effect of the National Lottery
3:28
funding is something everyone can't see and it's something I really feel
3:34
passionately about. So I look to her and I think wow what a difference you've made to your community. Um but then when
3:42
you look at investment that any of the distributors might have put into a region and you see how it might let's
3:48
say it's um an infrastructure project. Um do you know the northeast very well?
3:54
Do you know Newcastle very well? Yeah. Okay. Do you do you know the glass house? I don't.
3:59
Ah okay. So, the glass house was one of the first largest um um grants made uh
4:08
to a region outside of London when the National Lottery first um was up and running. Um so, they re received a
4:16
really significant budget and they built a music center and the music center is
4:23
very true to uh Newcastle in the northeast. uh and it enables anyone to
4:29
come in and enjoy music and to learn music and just to involve themselves in
4:34
music. Um and actually that has created a massive ripple effect and they have
4:40
now calculated over the last um 20 years since that they've had it 681 million
4:47
has been created around that sort of ecosystem just on what they've done and
4:52
that really inspires me. So what I'd try and do with 180 million after I'd paid off the mortgages and after I'd done
4:58
something in swimming for schools would be to look at how that um how I could invest and create a further
5:04
ripple. So there's no fivestar resorts. There's no yacht. There might be purchases. No, there'd
5:11
definitely not be a yacht. Not be a yacht. There wouldn't be a yacht. And what about maybe paying Bezos a few
5:17
million to to get on the space capsule? No. Could you use the money?
5:22
No, I wouldn't. I mean, I as a child, if I'd been born in LA or
5:30
somewhere really hot and sunny, I probably would have done marine biology. Okay. Right.
5:35
Didn't even do biology at O levels. But that really fascinates me. So, if I really had
5:41
no um no cares in the world, I might go and learn a bit more and spend more time
5:47
underwater. Okay. What's attracted what attracted you to marine biology? I don't know. man from Atlantis, you
5:54
know. I've got no idea. But it was just one,000 leagues under the sea.
5:59
Who knows? Who knows? I like being underwater. Oh, fair enough. Yeah. Would you go in one of those
6:04
submarines and and go down? No, it's swimming. Under water with the fish. With the fish. That's important. You got
6:10
to swim. Okay. I did not expect this opening question to go this way, but that's that's fantastic.
6:15
How was I? Um, obviously you know Alwin took over the license for the National Lottery
6:22
February last year, February 2024. Talk to me about being the custodian of what has become a true national icon and
6:30
institution really treasure. I get to be a national treasure. Yeah. Um, it is a huge honor. It's a huge
6:36
honor and uh it's a huge task that we are undertaking. Um
6:44
um the the responsibility actually is a responsibility that is
6:49
shared so massively with the whole organization and with all the
6:54
distributors. Um the responsibility is um less of a weight if that makes
7:01
sense because the national lottery everyone that works are all in everyone
7:06
that we inherited from Camelot. Everyone I've met that works as a distributor,
7:12
um, everyone believes 100% in why it was set up, what John Major did, um, and the
7:21
reason for why it's so important going forward. Um, now I think there's a
7:26
generation, I have two daughters in their 20ies, and until I got this job, they didn't really understand the value
7:34
of the National Lottery. They didn't understand where the 50 billion went. They didn't really understand what 50
7:39
billion really was because it's such a huge number. Um but you know 30 million pounds a week
7:47
we raise currently. Um in fact this year we're averaging 35 million. Not sure I
7:52
should have said that. Well, we said it now. Um uh but you know our task is to get to
7:58
60 million a week. Uh by when? By 2034. Okay. So that's the path that we've set
8:04
ourselves. That's the ambition by the end of the license. Really and when you think of the amount of
8:10
projects that you that people don't know about that just happen. Um
8:17
okay so Bendit like Beckham was a film that the BFI invested in. So National
8:22
Lottery players created the money that went into Bendit like Beckham. It was 1
8:28
million pounds we invested that year. domestic box office sales for
8:33
bendit like Beckham I think were around 34 million. I might have got that number slightly wrong but around there. Yeah.
8:39
So or a few million amongst friends. That's that's quite a good return on investment. But that film created a passion for
8:47
girls to play football and over the last 30 years we've invested a further 50
8:53
million in girls sport at grassroots level. And then you look at the Lionuses
8:59
and you see the Lionuses win the Euros in 2022 and you go, "How much value did that create?"
9:05
And I'm sure there are people outside in your newsroom that are covering women's sport this summer.
9:11
There are broadcasters, there are journalists, there are producers, there are people within our ecosystem and
9:18
world whose jobs didn't exist before that sector was created, women's sport.
9:25
So that ripple effect I think is awesome and I I am desperate to ensure that more
9:32
people know about that because people know about the big Olympics. They know I
9:38
think everyone knows um that that we back the every four years it's mentioned isn't it
9:44
that but apart from that not everyone knew not everyone knew how they are supported they didn't know it
9:50
was their nutritionists their recreation their training how actually the national
9:56
lotterying funding really supports the team around them which enables them to
10:01
not have to do a job. Yeah. Um, if you talk to some of the parolympians,
10:06
their whole self-confidence has been created because they're doing something with real purpose,
10:12
which before the national lottery supported them, they could never have done. But explain to me how the economics work
10:18
because obviously you you fill out your your form in the news agents or you go on the app, which I'm sure most people
10:25
are doing these days, right? And you you pay your two quid and you enter the draw or you play the other games that you got
10:30
available. that money goes where and how much do you take it in profit and how
10:36
much do you give away to good causes and athletes? So in every pound in every lottery pound
10:42
um the operator takes one penny okay not a high percentage uh we have costs
10:49
that go to all the retailers um and um there are costs of running the
10:55
business so that in total about 8%. uh treasury take 12%.
11:02
It's quite a fair chunk. Uh prize money is a significant chunk and about 25p in
11:09
every pound goes to good causes. Okay. And has that always been the case or is that changed when you got the
11:14
license? Um there was a slightly different mechanic in license uh one, two, and
11:21
three which meant that uh Camelot could make more money on different products.
11:27
that's all gone and now we are completely aligned. So if I can grow
11:33
good causes then I help grow profit for us but there is no way of me um taking
11:40
more profit unless good causes have benefited equally. So it's completely fair. I mean it's a I think the
11:46
regulator made some very good changes when it introduced that new structure in the fourth license.
11:51
Yeah. And you say you know it is a national treasury. 30 years now. Just over 30 years that
11:57
it's it's been going. It has made a a huge difference. Oh my god. Unbelievable. Over that time. But obviously you've
12:03
been running it for just over a year now. What has Alwin done as a license
12:08
holder to make a difference uh that maybe Camelot wasn't doing before?
12:15
Oh my goodness. Where should I start? Um so yes um originally we were meant to
12:22
take um control in February 24 and we were meant to be able to have had two
12:28
years to build a new tech infrastructure ahead of taking over. Why was that needed? Sorry to interrupt.
12:35
Why was the new tech infrastructure needed? Was it just out of date and not invested in? Yeah. Right. Since 2009.
12:40
And that's just to modernize Yeah. how people are playing the games. So the tech infrastructure we're currently
12:46
working on um was last updated properly in 2009. So that's when Blackberries
12:52
were a thing. That's pre- Instagram, pre-streaming, that's pre iPads, it's
12:58
pre it's pre a lot of technology. Yeah. We don't have CRM at the moment. Can you
13:04
imagine another business particularly of our scale that has no form of doing CRM at the
13:10
moment? So um our shareholder has already invested
13:17
400 million. 400 million it's a whopping huge amount of money um to invest in
13:23
upfront establishing a completely new tech stack which will enable us to innovate more
13:30
quickly. It will enable us to know our players and for me that's really really
13:35
important. I want to I want to up the amount of known play because if I know
13:42
the players then not only can I really attract responsible growth um so I'm not
13:49
targeting like VIPs but I'm trying to ask everyone to play once or twice more
13:55
um which is important but I can also understand what games people are really enjoying and what games people play
14:02
because they like two to play two games but I can just know it. And then the third reason why known play is really
14:09
important is um I don't know where you live and I don't know where you might buy your lottery ticket at the moment
14:15
and you might buy it in a retailer. So you're completely anonymous to me, but when I know a little bit more about you,
14:22
I'll be able to tell you where the money has gone that in projects that really interests you. So if you're a real fan
14:29
of cycling, what are you a fan of? Uh Rugby Union. Rugby Union. Okay. So, I'd be able to
14:35
tell you all about our investment into grassroots rugby union. I'd be able to tell you all about the
14:40
amount of money we've spent in women's rugby union particularly. So, I'd be able to tell you about um maybe there's
14:47
a particular stadium that we've helped invest in or a changing room that we've invested in.
14:53
So, when I know what you're interested in, I can give you information and it
14:59
might be the area that you live in. M so knowing more which let's face it most
15:05
retailers do now. Yes I suppose so the more we can catch up with everybody
15:10
else. Yeah. The more we'll be able to improve responsible play and communication so
15:17
that I want to be able to engage with everyone like retailers can and like
15:23
brands can that you love. Some people can be a little bit anxious though about
15:29
companies collecting data on them. They don't have to give us data. No, they can always up.
15:34
Lots of people. Yeah. Will want to. And I suppose you're you're trying to sell the fact that you'd want to give
15:39
them the information to find let them know where that that money is going. It's a other side of that deal.
15:45
Yeah. I suppose I mean it is um everybody wants to know more. At the moment the distributors can't possibly
15:52
communicate in a coordinated way. there are too many grants. Um so we need to be and you wouldn't
15:58
want to be bombarded with information that you don't want to know about. Yeah. So understanding the players um and
16:04
understanding occasional players um you know bringing back people a little bit
16:10
more regularly is the real ambition. Um and that's how you're going to get to that target. Yeah. I mean last last few weeks we've
16:17
had an amazing uh Euromillions role but we have through better marketing
16:23
better media uh targeting we have attracted more occasional players back than we have seen in quite a long time
16:31
you know and that enables us to really start to communicate better um and
16:37
that's what we need to do just have everyone playing just once or twice just a little bit more. Okay.
16:43
We it it probably will surprise you. I don't know how much research you've done. Um but we are one of the world's
16:50
largest lotteryies, but we currently rank 64th in terms of
16:57
how much players spend with us. So we are right right low low down. Um, if I
17:04
could encourage everyone to spend two pounds a week more, three pounds a week more, or players that play once a year
17:12
to play two or three times a year, it's really responsible growth and it makes a massive difference.
17:18
It's difficult line though, isn't it? Because you're essentially asking people to gamble. It's it's it's
17:23
it's a form is a form of gambling. Gambling you would claim has a skill.
17:28
There is no skill in g in lottery. Don't know betting on the football. Football football people claim they know
17:36
what who people claim. I think claim is the key word there. People claim to know quite a
17:41
lot. I think there's a lot of it chance though is it's a different form though. It's within that but it's entertainment. It's
17:47
entertainment. It's like uh if you watch TV, watch radio now, you look in the
17:52
newspaper, they're giving away big prizes. Lots and lots and lots of competitors we have now. It's not like
17:59
it was in 1994 when it was first launched. There are lots of competitors, lots of ways of winning.
18:05
Absolutely. It's time now for some quickfire questions. Andrew, are you ready?
18:12
[Music] First up, what was your first job? I lasted only a couple of months in the
18:19
kitchen of a restaurant washing up. So, I would like to consider my first job. I
18:25
was on the grocery section of a local spa and I took real pleasure in
18:32
polishing the apples and having everything stacked brilliantly and wrapping things in the brown paper bags
18:38
and I loved it. I absolutely loved it. That was my first initial love of retail. The local spa in Lankton Green.
18:46
Fantastic. Who inspires you? Oh, there are lots of people. Um, lots of
18:52
people in all walks of life. Um, but if I had to say who has inspired me a lot,
18:59
I think I think the queen was an amazing female role model for us all for years
19:05
in the UK. I think she saw so much change. She saw huge challenges and she
19:13
gracefully maneuvered all the way through. I think she's a fantastic role model.
19:19
If you had to have a celebrity on your board, who would it be and why? Um, if I wanted a I have got Lord Seb
19:28
Co, who's not really a celebrity, but he's well known. Yeah. Um, famous. Famous. Um, I would say
19:36
I would love struggling between two people. I would really love Gareth Southkate for his
19:42
experience in culture change and how he learned from mistakes of his own and brought them into and and really
19:50
helped change a team. Um, and I'd really like Emma Thompson for her wit and humor
19:56
for when things are getting serious and we need someone to just cut through. She's got good she'd have good stories
20:02
as well. That would make the boards more interesting. Definitely. Um, what's the best thing about your job?
20:07
I think you know when you're enabling people to win, whether it's£10 or £100
20:15
or £10,000 or a million, everyone loves winning. So that's a pretty good feeling. Um, but I think
20:23
what caps it is meeting people that are really benefited. Fantastic. And if you weren't doing this
20:29
job, what what would you be doing? It's your dream job. Well, this is my dream job. I mean,
20:34
of course, apart from this, um, I did love music. Okay. Um, I loved working with the artists and
20:40
enabling, you know, new artists like Tiny Temper and Emily Sande. Yeah.
20:45
Launch their careers. And then also work with Jan Duran and Blur and help them reignite things. Um, so music was great
20:52
because it was consumer a new challenge all the time and new technology changing
20:58
the way consumers um reacted and engaged. So that sort of combined everything I'm doing now but in a
21:04
different way. Fantastic. And if you were prime minister for the day move over Karma,
21:09
what would you do? Okay, so a day I count that as 24 hours. Yep.
21:14
Okay. So if it's 24 hours, I'm going to do two things. And the first one would be my passion project about kids
21:21
swimming. Yeah. And I'd make sure that every child at school had an opportunity to learn how to swim.
21:26
And the second thing I do professional would be the 12% tax that treasury gets
21:34
from the national lottery. I would ensure it's ring fenced and it's communicated. So every year the
21:41
government say where that money is going to. So it's not just the money that goes to good causes that I will take
21:48
responsibility for communicating but they recognize the 12% they get and they
21:54
communicate how that so as a player you know where all your money has gone.
22:00
Talking of the Treasury apart from that obviously if they introduce that with your with after your lobbying is there
22:06
anything else that the Treasury and the government large could do to help support a company like yours?
22:13
I think international investment is something that the government are keen
22:19
to attract and we have an international shareholder who has really backed us.
22:25
Um I think that the government are fully
22:30
behind growth. So at the moment we're really well aligned if I'm honest at the
22:35
moment. I'm very very happy with the way the government are talking about growth and international investment. So, just
22:43
keep doing as you're doing. You're pleased with everything that's happened since Labour took power. Um, yeah. I mean,
22:49
that was that was a little note of hesitation there. Professionally, yes.
22:55
Okay. I wonder if we'll uh get any more out of you later about that.
23:00
Let's talk about EMI. Oh, okay. Um, I want to switch because you've just alluded to in the in the quickfire
23:06
questions, you've had a varied career. I have indeed. Tell me about what you were up to at EMI before you took this
23:13
job. Um, so EMI actually wasn't immediately before this job. Yeah. Um, uh, so EMI I worked as part of the
23:22
team that was under Terra Firma. Um, and our job was modernizing EMI. EMI was
23:29
another national treasure that had been for one reason or another allowed to
23:35
stagnate and it wasn't on the front foot. Um and
23:41
uh I came in with a brand marketing music understanding but I didn't join
23:49
the organization with the traditional music label responsibilities and
23:55
prejudice. Um so that's always a great place to start because you can challenge the norm. Um, and I was determined to
24:04
ensure that we created an environment for each artist that was enabling them
24:11
to reach their greatest potential. It wasn't one-sizefits-all.
24:17
It was um a different plan for Tiny Temper, who was really into branding to
24:24
Emily Sand Day, who just wanted to create brilliant songs and we persuaded
24:29
her to perform as well. But you know the difference between Swedish House Mafia and Bastile, everyone was different and
24:36
you needed to really understand the band to get the right deal. That at the time was quite unusual.
24:42
Um I brought in prioritization. Again, not something that's radical. Um but
24:50
something that worked. Instead of signing 10 artists, we signed five. Because if I could get four artists
24:56
successfully over the line, Yeah. That would be a greater success rate. Who is the best artist that you worked with?
25:02
Oh, I can't. That's like choosing a favorite child. That is just unforgivable. You can never ask that as
25:08
a general. Who I can ask him whatever I want. It's my show. Names on the door. Um, if
25:14
you're in the car and you've got a couple of CDs of people you used to work with who who you more likely to put on than others. Um, Coldplay is always
25:22
fantastic for me, particularly if you're driving and you want something that
25:27
brings back great memories. Um, I am and always will be a great Bowie fan. Um, so
25:34
it does depend on your mood. I mean, I I think Katy Perry, who is not necessarily
25:39
what everyone would anticipate me asking, Katy Perry was an enormous
25:45
a fantastic role model. She was a really strong woman. She was going through all sorts of difficulties with her marriage
25:51
at the time she did a world tour with us and her strength and her performance as
25:57
a leader. I will always remember particularly when I hear firework because the lyrics that are in that
26:04
track are very pertinent to how she was feeling at the time. So that's what I do. I I think much more
26:11
about the lyrics and what those artists were going through than I probably ever did before my life at EMI. Do you look
26:17
at these high performers, these successful people in their in each field that you come across and take aspects of
26:25
their leadership styles, maybe the way that they act, copy and paste? Yeah,
26:31
that's it. Do you do that? Yeah, of course. Don't you? Well,
26:37
certainly through doing these interviews definitely is you meet so many different people and they're they're trying to tackle
26:43
basically the same problem to grow a particular business in whatever industry that is and they're going about it in so
26:48
radically different ways sometimes which is really interesting. I think you can learn a lot from
26:54
everyone. you know, going to a conference, listening in the canteen to other
27:02
people, the way they may have heard something, the way they saw a a TV
27:08
program and their interpretation of it. I I try and keep my ears open all the
27:13
time because yes, no, I am probably one of those people with huge imposter syndrome. I I'm very happy to admit I
27:20
can learn from everyone. Is that something that you've dealt with for a few years having imposter syndrome? Is that a relatively new thing
27:26
or is that No, I think um probably ever since I graduated, I I went out with somebody
27:34
who was absolutely blue chip and you know, flying and management consultant
27:39
and I used to think, well, I think I'm probably just as good as you, but I didn't put the work in to get the exam
27:45
results. So, at that point, I was determined to prove I could hold my own.
27:50
Yeah. And you clearly have, you know, you've you've climbed the greasy pole and you've reached the top. Um, looking
27:58
back over your career today, do you consider yourself successful? No.
28:04
No. No. Of course not. Some people say yes to that question. Do they? Yeah.
28:10
I consider some of the businesses I have worked in and the transformations I have
28:16
done, I consider them a success. M I look at some of the um people that I
28:22
recruited and how they've grown and blossomed and I consider that successful. So my acts I might consider
28:30
successful, but I don't think I've ever thought of myself as successful. No, you wouldn't describe yourself as
28:36
egotistical or No, I'm I'm I'm very happy actually uh
28:42
not always being front of stage, letting other people be front of stage. As long as the right decisions get made, as long
28:48
as the right actions are delivered, um, actions speak louder than words.
28:53
And is that reflected in your leadership style? I hate this question. I really hate this
28:59
question. How come? Um cuz I do really believe that I try and create an
29:05
environment where everyone can reach their best potential because if everyone is performing at
29:12
their best then the organization should be performing at their best. Um and in order to do that you need to
29:18
be really good at communication. So that's everything I try and do. But whenever it comes to 360s you also get
29:25
the truth. And the truth is always yes I might be focused but I am relent
29:32
relentlessly energetic and some people find that a bit exhausting and I can't I
29:38
haven't been able to escape that right and um and then there's a word that I I
29:43
never liked um because I'd love to be thought of as innovative all the time and all the rest of it but actually it's
29:50
resilient and I think that is because I've taken on a number of challenging changes and
29:56
modern modernizations. Um, and they always take time. They're never a quick fix. You know, the the tech stack
30:03
modernization is not the completion of modernizing the national lottery. No, there are so many other things to do. I
30:10
want us to be an engaged brand that you think of as an entertainment brand, not
30:17
as a national lottery. I want, you know, in five years time for you to think of us up there without questioning it. Um,
30:24
so we've got a lot of work to do. I've got a lot of work to do with changing the culture, changing the skill sets, evolving
30:32
people's skill sets. You know, we were just talking about your newsroom and how it used to be a newspaper and now you
30:39
have a quarterly magazine and it's all on digital. That takes patience and time for the leadership team to help people
30:46
learn and not be scared. And that's what I've learned in the number of transformations. EMI was exactly the
30:52
same. Magic was exactly the same. You have to help people and show them and
30:59
let people know they can fail at times. Um, now you don't want them to fail on
31:04
anything that is critical, but you you need to be able to enable that culture
31:10
to feed itself gradually. That takes a lot of accelerate too quickly. That takes a lot of bravery though,
31:16
doesn't it? I suppose you got to take the tough decisions. And I suppose it's easy to come to work and go, "Oh, you
31:22
know what? I'll I'll take the path of least resistance here and we'll get it done, but it might take a little bit longer, but it seems to me that you're
31:29
somebody that wants to cut through that and Yeah. No, can't stand drive that transformation as quickly as
31:36
possible. Yes. Someone said to me once like, "You're not very good at status quo
31:42
management." You know, I don't do tinkering. No, you don't do 2% growth each year, do you? No.
31:49
Um, talk to me about work life balance. Um, I'd imagine your job is all
31:55
consuming. Is it difficult to strike that work life balance sometimes?
32:00
Um, I'm I'm going to have to answer that question in a different way. I do
32:08
recognize I have been one of the luckiest people. I do think of the jobs I've had as the best jobs in the world.
32:14
I mean, every job I've had, I thought it can't get better. Mhm. So I recognize that that is an unusually
32:21
privileged position. But as a result, because I love it, I don't have a work
32:27
life balance. I have a blended life, right? I love music. I would always
32:33
answer the phone to anybody, anytime, any day. And because I'm so happy working, actually my family have always
32:41
known me to be working. It's not like I don't like work. I have to limit it from 9 to5 and then I live my life. My life
32:50
um even though it's been very corporate has been completely blended at the BBC,
32:55
at Capital Radio, EMI, at Centaur, I fall in love with my job and then it
33:02
becomes just my world and I find a way as someone said to me um uh the other
33:09
day, so it's not milk plus a banana, it's a banana milkshake. And you know,
33:15
I've not heard that before. That's good. There you go. Yeah. Yeah. Um, if you go go back to, you know, that
33:21
you when we're just coming out of university have maybe developing imposter syndrome for the first time,
33:27
um, is there a bit of advice that you'd give your younger self at that point?
33:32
If you could go back and talk to her right now, what would you say? Well, the advice I gave my daughters was
33:37
get better exam results than I did, as they will often repeat to me.
33:42
Yes. Um I think um I've done lots of jobs and I never knew where I was going
33:49
to go next. It hasn't been planned at all. Um so I think doing things you love
33:56
enables you to perform well and you do have to work hard. I think I think
34:01
working hard does create better luck. So if you work hard, don't feel guilty
34:07
about working hard and find something that you really enjoy so that you can work hard and you don't feel guilty
34:13
about it and it's a virtuous circle. Then final question and I always like asking
34:18
this. Oh god. What does it take in your opinion to be a good CEO?
34:26
Circumstances are always so different. I think um listening people,
34:33
communication, managing great talent around you, getting great talent in.
34:40
I've only ever worked though, so the reason I hesitated was I've only ever worked in creatively led, peopleled
34:48
businesses. So I I can't talk for a manufacturing company. I can't really I can only talk about the businesses I've
34:55
worked in which are all very very peopleled and for that it's all all about leading
35:02
them. Well, fantastic Andrea. Thank you so much for coming on boardroom covered. Thank you.