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China spying scandal: What the hell is going on?
Oct 9, 2025
The head of MI5 warns that Chinese spying in the UK is taking place on “an epic scale” - yet the government can’t bring itself to describe China as a threat. What the hell is going on? City AM editor-in-chief Christian May tackles the question in this instalment of Week in Business. Get more of City AM 👇 🌐 http://www.cityam.com X(formerly Twitter): http://twitter.com/CityAM Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/cityam Instagram: http://www.instagram.com/city_am LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/company/cityam Enter now for your chance to win VIP Hospitality for 4 to see England vs Australia, plus other amazing prices. Visit: https://citywinners.co.uk Produced by: Christian May, Scarlett Wild, Matt Kenyon #ukpolitics #politics #china #security #news
View Video Transcript
0:00
The head of MI5 warns that Chinese
0:02
spying in the UK is taking place on an
0:05
epic scale. Yet the government can't
0:07
bring itself to describe China as a
0:09
threat. What the hell is going on?
0:11
Welcome to the week in business with me,
0:13
Christian May.
0:19
Sir Ken McCullum, the director general
0:20
of MI5, doesn't make many speeches in
0:23
public. is one of the country's top
0:24
spooks. You'd expect him to stick to the
0:26
shadows, but he does occasionally emerge
0:28
from the bunker to remind the public and
0:30
the government that the UK is under
0:32
pretty much constant attack. In 2022,
0:34
Sir Ken made an unprecedented joint
0:37
statement with the head of the FBI to
0:39
address what he called the game-changing
0:41
challenge we face from the Chinese
0:43
Communist Party. He described this
0:45
challenge as real and pressing. He
0:48
specifically warned businesses of the
0:50
threat posed by Chinese spies, saying,
0:52
"If you are involved in cuttingedge
0:54
tech, AI, advanced research, or product
0:56
development, the chances are your
0:58
knowhow is of material interest to the
1:01
Chinese Communist Party." He said, "We
1:03
aren't crying wolf." And he concluded
1:06
the widespread western assumption that
1:08
growing prosperity within China and
1:10
increasing connectivity with the West
1:12
would automatically lead to greater
1:14
political freedom has been shown to be
1:16
plain wrong. Then in 2023, he reappeared
1:20
to warn of a sustained campaign by China
1:23
against the UK on a pretty epic scale.
1:26
He warned that more than 20,000 people
1:28
had been approached by China's spies,
1:30
often on LinkedIn, and an estimated
1:33
10,000 British businesses were at risk
1:35
from Chinese industrial espionage. His
1:37
American counterpart put it clearly,
1:39
"China has made economic espionage and
1:42
stealing others work and ideas a central
1:44
component of its national strategy."
1:47
That year, responding to an intelligence
1:49
and security committee report into the
1:51
China threat, the last Tory government
1:53
said, "It is China's ambition at a
1:56
global level to become a technological
1:57
and economic superpower on which other
2:00
countries are reliant that poses a
2:02
national security threat to the UK." And
2:05
in last year's annual MI5 threat
2:07
assessment, Sir Ken again reiterated
2:09
that China is keeping them busy with the
2:11
security services focusing on disrupting
2:14
attempts at harming or coercing people
2:16
where often we're protecting people of
2:18
Chinese heritage, tackling threats aimed
2:20
at our democracy and safeguarding
2:22
valuable information against a threat
2:24
that manifests at scale. On April the
2:27
15th last year, Security Minister Tom
2:29
Tugenhard said in Parliament, "The
2:32
hostile activity we have seen from China
2:34
poses a serious threat to the security
2:37
and well-being of the British people."
2:39
It was around that time that Christopher
2:41
Cash and Christopher Bry were charged
2:43
under the Official Secrets Act, accused
2:44
of spying for China, having been
2:47
arrested the previous year. That case
2:49
and how it collapsed in recent weeks is
2:51
now at the center of a spectacular row
2:54
engulfing Whiteall amid allegations of
2:56
government interference and accusations
2:58
that a pro-China sentiment in Downing
3:00
Street has undermined our national
3:02
security. In a nutshell, the case
3:05
against Cash and Bry, who always
3:06
maintained their innocence, collapsed
3:08
after prosecutors were left unable to
3:10
prove that China is an enemy or even a
3:13
threat. The Crown Prosecution Service
3:15
needed the government to confirm that
3:17
assessment and confirmation was not
3:19
forthcoming. The director of public
3:21
prosecution, Steven Parkinson, said the
3:23
Crown Prosecution Service tried to
3:25
obtain such evidence from the government
3:27
over many months, but government witness
3:29
statements did not meet the threshold to
3:32
prosecute. With that key threshold
3:34
therefore not being met, Cash and Barry
3:36
were released and the charges against
3:38
them were dropped. There's now a state
3:40
of high drama in Westminster with Kier
3:43
Stalmer insisting that his hands were
3:45
tied and he had nothing to do with the
3:46
collapse of the case. But Tory leader
3:48
Cammy Badenog yesterday claimed that
3:50
Labour deliberately collapsed the trial
3:53
because the prime minister wants to suck
3:55
up to Beijing. It's pretty spicy stuff.
3:57
I suspect that who knew what, who, who
4:00
made certain decisions in which room
4:02
will all come out in the wash. But even
4:05
now, it's clear that we can agree with
4:06
the second part of Beno's statement.
4:08
This government is sucking up to
4:10
Beijing. It is terrified of offending
4:12
them, let alone antagonizing them. We've
4:14
seen this. We've seen it with their
4:16
surrender of the Chaos Islands, which
4:17
delighted China to the constonation of
4:19
our allies. And we've seen it with the
4:21
government's baffling enthusiasm for
4:23
China's proposed new mega embassy
4:25
building here in the city of London.
4:27
Despite security chiefs here and in the
4:29
US speaking out against it in Whiteall
4:33
in the foreign office in particular,
4:36
deference to China runs deep. Don't
4:38
offend them. Keep them sweet. We need
4:40
their investment. Our current and future
4:42
economic relationship with China is more
4:45
important than what? Our security, our
4:49
self-respect, our democratic and
4:51
judicial processes. Perhaps you think it
4:54
is, but I don't. And it might just be
4:57
that this latest episode of spooky
4:59
political intrigue serves to force open
5:01
a crack in the state's relationship with
5:04
China and perhaps let some much needed
5:07
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5:30
opportunities. And on that note, that's
5:32
it from me this week. Stay up tod date
5:34
and in the know with the city app and on
5:36
cityam.com. Check out citywinners.co.uk
5:39
and I will see you next week.
5:45
[Music]