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Spain's GOLDEN VISA...What now? | BayRadio with Pellicer & Heredia
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Oct 29, 2024
After jumping in on Monday's Webinar discussing the scrapping of Spain's Golden Visa, Kal welcomed Ignacio from @Pellicerheredia to their new regular slot in the afternoons: Every other Wednesday from 16:00 CET There was more about the Golden Visa and what happens next for those who already hold one. Some other Visa options were also discussed as well as what could become known as the Mbappé Law, as the French footballer gets closer to joining Real Madrid and there could be an arrangement made that's similar to the Beckham Law, which is still in place. You can see more about residency options at www.visaspain.today or at www.alicantelawyers.es, where you can also watch back some of the previous webinars. Be sure to Like 👍 this and Subscribe to our channel if you found it useful. Website: http://www.bayradio.fm/​ Mobile App: https://app.appinstitute.com/yddcc​ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/BayRadioInSpain​ Twitter: https://twitter.com/bayradioinspain​ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/bayradiospain/
View Video Transcript
0:00
please to welcome ignio back into the studio with us from pela and Heredia
0:05
alakan lawyers if you're Googling um easy to find them online uh good to talk to you again it's been a while yeah KL
0:12
just good afternoon it's been probably some years it has indeed yes you were stolen by Moody on the breakfast show
0:18
but of course um he's doing all things digital now and you're still continuing with some of that as well aren't that's right that's very good we joined you the
0:24
other day ignio you were talking on your own webinar which you do on a sort of bi-weekly basis don't you about Golden
0:31
visas which of course has been very much in the news recently and perhaps we should recap a little bit about what's
0:36
happened the end of the golden visas um is going to mean something to some people but perhaps not to as many people
0:42
as we thought that's correct I mean uh if you read the numbers even though you you you probably know that all the
0:49
numbers are with quotes because we really don't know whether they are really correct or not but um it is not
0:57
going to be that much impact the thing is for for some people non-european
1:02
countries selling a property abroad over 500,000 is quite common because the cost
1:08
of living in different countries is is much more so it was a good opportunity
1:14
to sell your main property move on to to Spain relocate yourself and get a Visa
1:19
which gives you free movement in Europe uh you probably welcome to work welcome
1:26
to come stay like the non-lucrative and they're welcome for you to be non- taxpayer so which means you don't need
1:34
to pay income tax return if you don't want if you stay less than 183 days so
1:39
for me that golden Visa is perfect because it gives you all these possibilities a lot of
1:46
flexibility and um and we're still getting Carl we're still getting yesterday actually I got two golden
1:52
visas already approved and what's the timeline for getting them approved at the moment quite quick I think yeah uh
1:57
actually we're getting an average of 20 working day that is pretty quick for Spain it really
2:02
is isn't it yeah I would say this is the quickest Visa ever I mean more than the normal Visa more than because you know I
2:11
don't know is this in a center in Madrid is is that deals only with this dedicated to just that dedicated yeah
2:18
and um and they're very efficient I must say I mean it's the most efficient thing that I've ever seen in the
2:23
administration so why are people still applying if you though it's going to end right good question um the way I say is
2:32
people are going to invest in call anyway so that's what I say to clients if you're going to go for it anyway do
2:38
it sooner rather than later if you're going to do it anyway uh why will you
2:43
lose the opportunity now uh I think um is worth doing I don't think it's going
2:50
to be removed so quickly I think it was more at publicity on the leftwing party
2:57
trying to bring a lot of allegations well they're canceling something that was brought in by the previous
3:02
conservative government the they I can see the politics politics um but also
3:09
there were the statistics that came out of it that actually we were thinking maybe a lot of Brits will go for it because you know Brits can no longer
3:15
have the free movement since brexit but as it turns out it was it was lots of Chinese and Russian people that took up
3:21
the option the number one I believe it was Chinese and then the Russians and but if you see the numbers um after the
3:28
years you could see the impact of brexit after 2021 then a lot of Americans that
3:36
are relocating to Spain and you know they sell their properties over there and in general it's more than 500,000 so
3:44
for them it's not a big deal to just say okay let's sell it and move over here and we get the Visas and that's the end
3:50
of it uh not less call you will get with people investing the1 million EUR on on
3:56
shares or Investments or the 2 million public debt okay which I don't think that's going to be removed so I I but
4:03
this is only me guessing read in the news because the only news you could find will be the one that he published
4:09
that day well yes absolutely there is plenty from the government about it isn't there it's all obviously in the
4:16
way that they want to portray it and the way that they want to see it so in this webinar that you had the other day you
4:21
had some experts as well as uh you know the guys that normally on your staff
4:27
talking about this what were the big questions that people were asking asking well the big question I think one of the
4:32
one the most important ones are can I still submit it this is only one on the
4:37
answer is yes you're still on time until these laws change modify or yeah you
4:43
could carry on doing as I said yesterday I got another two of two Americans and it's very quick and it was very quick uh
4:49
we had everything when we handled the conveyancing we had everything beforehand so once we complete we just
4:56
Lodge it through even though there is some paperwork still pending we take advantage and try to buy time you know
5:04
um that's what we did with this couple and um and the other question that is
5:09
important about renewals that you made yeah there was that question that we had from a couple that were asking basically
5:16
what happens then because they're valid for three years so they all they're all valid for three years yeah they three years then you renew two years and then
5:22
you will carry on renewing you say even if it's going to end you can still renew we don't know that yet do we I mean we
5:28
to be honest we don't know what changes they're going to go how far they're going to go and what kind of performance
5:35
after the publicity is going to happen you initially you can still do it it'll still be for three years yes but we're
5:41
not quite sure yet what happens at the threeyear period my understanding will be that let's put it this way the one
5:48
from yesterday yeah three years then two years then we get the five and then renew five and five and five but I don't
5:57
see the government stopping if you already have acquired rights you know he he quite quite aggressive you're already
6:04
there aren't you like when we were looking at it for people that had been living in Spain from the UK brexit
6:10
happened those that filled the requirements were still allowed to stay you'd think it would be a similar
6:15
scenario a similar scenario I don't see the government being that aggressive
6:21
unless they've got a purpose but I don't I don't find it limiting citizens rights
6:27
freedom of movement and things like that certainly this government isn't really known for that and actually if it does swing about and we get a change in
6:33
government they're the guys that brought the golden Visa in in the first place so yeah yeah yeah so so this is a
6:40
situation um again um they did an interview of confidential the other day
6:47
about what we think about the the Goen visa and and to be honest I think it works is good whether they want to
6:53
change it for more money whether but it brings uh it brings possibilities for
6:59
people who bring uh money into the country uh you don't need to go for Golden Visa if you don't reach 500 so
7:06
you could go with an nlv non-lucrative Visa there are lots of options aren't there so that this non-lucrative Visa
7:12
tell us a bit more about that yeah the non-lucrative Visa pretty much all the requirements somebody applying for a
7:18
golden Visa will fit into this category the only difference is these people must
7:24
stay in spend more than six months uh in a calendar year so which means they're
7:29
going to be in a position of being tax resident now the thing with the golden Visa it doesn't make you tax resident so
7:36
let's say you've got a lot of business a lot of work a lot and you don't really know because if you do tax planning you
7:42
pay here x amount but probably over there is more efficient and then you say why would I right then you don't stay
7:49
that longer so you've got the Visa you can stay up to six months right because
7:54
you want you're allowed to stay longer but you decide not to because of a tax you don't need a visa just for that for
8:01
example I'll give you an example of some case I had today uh in the office some people are let's put it this
8:09
way Irish okay and the wife British okay yeah so you've got somebody who is entitled within the EU and somebody who
8:16
isn't right and I'll put it this way he will apply for the Green Card residency
8:21
perming for Europeans the wife Bays on the marriage certificate will apply a
8:27
family member of a European citizen MH so both of them will be European citizen to the same rights right but what
8:35
happens they will be entitled to stay as much as they wish for five years right
8:41
but they could decide for tax purposes stay less than less than six months so
8:47
that's an option as well it depends on your needs really as on how you want to do it so that's that's just one of the
8:53
other options there course there's The Nomad Visa which is another option The Nomad Visa that's a Visa for people that
9:00
are willing to work remotely and these people working remotely must be working
9:06
uh for a company more than three months being uh entitled to work remotely in
9:12
Spain by the Company the company needs to be more than one year operating in
9:17
business and we need to register the company on Social Security here now this
9:24
nma Visa is one of the most complex but more efficient as well because nma Visa
9:29
it will be like the Beckham law as well automatically if you qualify with it you haven't been tax resid in for the F for
9:35
for the past five years it will be 24% tax based on your income only
9:43
generated working remotely you will not pay anything else in Spain for any other
9:49
assets up to €600,000 is 24% and then after 600,000 47 but the good thing of
9:56
that regime so it's two things the immigration right that is the normal visa and the Beckham law okay all
10:05
together you could still get a visa and not to apply for Beckham law so he's optional do you need to have a certain
10:10
amount of money or be earning a certain amount of money to become or to get a nomad V you do a minimum there is a
10:16
minimum exactly the same as a non-lucrative Visa so you need to have a minimum financial means uh 27,000
10:23
minimum per year and then when you've got and the good thing of the Noma Visa
10:29
that extends to your family members as well so that extends hus husband and
10:34
wife and children but the beauty of it is they could do whatever they like so they're not limited to work remotely
10:42
these people could work as you and me here in Spain doing whatever kind of business and they benefit of the tax
10:49
regime as well so but that's an option the Nora Visa I really like it but as
10:56
every single Visa you need to Feit and suit and qualify with their requirements and they're not
11:02
is it right for you or is there something else that might be a better fit yes yes exactly it uh but every
11:08
interview I do call every interview I try to understand their personal
11:14
position so and I try to dig on the easiest and the best option um for
11:20
example as I said you're married to an Irish then our life could be easier in these respects you know uh if you are uh
11:28
not willing to work and you've got the money the non lucrative Visa because you're not going to spend the 500,000 you don't need to you probably want to
11:34
buy 100,000 EUR plot of land and build it and doesn't you don't want to be
11:40
limited um if you're already going to invest invest it anywhere and you're going to buy a nice Villa um then we
11:47
need to advise you on how to do it because you cannot buy joint if you buy joint with a golden Visa will fail
11:53
because it's 500,000 EUR I see per person or with dependent but in this to
12:00
be your name so this is one of the mistakes that took place from 2013 that
12:06
people are say oh invest that yeah that would help Bay radio International talking to igno from pel and Heredia
12:14
International lawyers and plenty on the tax front we've been discussing visas
12:20
and we talked about Golden visas uh about the non-lucrative Visa and The Nomad Visa ignio there are a couple of
12:26
other possibilities aren't there for working or living in Spain yeah these are the most common probably that
12:32
because it suits a lot of people but the student visa I say that is a very nice way to come over to Spain and star is is
12:40
not a very complex you we could do it once you arrive in Spain if we've got all the documents like criminal records
12:47
the health insurance the padon uh obviously payment of your Academy to
12:53
learn in Spanish because that's one of the requirements and have money in the bank in Spain with that the student visa
13:00
is very good it last as much as your program there is a link that they could
13:06
check with the academies to learn Spanish and this is for anybody who's not part of the EU so UK American
13:14
Canadian cor Canadian non European uh and we are doing a lot of student visas
13:20
and to be honest uh Carl is is the easiest way to just try to jump
13:26
into and then from here we could change into a different Visa some people say I want to start working well that's a
13:34
working a work visa from abroad is a bit of a nightmare because the way it works
13:40
in the consulate they send the paperwork to Aliant office since we here in alant
13:45
they will send you to malago or whatever but they just middleman so you know dealing with two Administration not only
13:52
one so you've got the D the time yeah yeah immigration and the consulate M and
13:58
the fees over there are much more it's like granting py over there is much more money than here in a public notary um so
14:06
I I recommend to have an appointment to prepare everything this is what we probably do a lot and then when they
14:13
just arrive here we just provide all paper we need to do it within 59 days of
14:19
your arrival and the parents could get that as well or they could apply for a non-lucrative Visa or they could uh get
14:27
as well um tutor of a dependent to study I see so that's
14:34
another way is a legal way to do it and um obviously after two years of legal
14:41
residency with different countries we could apply for nationality depends on the agreements that Spain have with
14:47
different indivual count countries I mean all the Iberia um Americans countries Portugal andur
14:55
Philippines uh obviously a few more uh two years years of legal residency then
15:01
you get your nationality you need to apply for it and um but yes uh I think
15:07
the student visa might help a lot yeah and the strange thing is for Great Britain that last week the EU were
15:13
offering British students the possibility to have free movement as they did prior to brexit and that would
15:20
have been I think up to 30 years old but that the UK government has said they don't want to do that they'd rather have
15:26
individual uh agreements with idual countries I'm not I don't quite understand why whether it's because they
15:33
think they might be able to get more in those sorts of agreements than they might as an EU agreement as a whole or
15:39
whether it's your um view which we were talking about in the break which is brexit was a divorce and for a long time
15:44
after a divorce people just don't like to do things I'm more of that opinion it's more about the ego of not accepting
15:51
because you're the taker aiv it you know you you didn't agree with with there is not planned there is not so so we
15:58
falling out it's going to take a long time yeah until we recover the confidence you know
16:03
oh my goodness really I it's it sounds quite strange doesn't it because that I think it's a bit shortsighted as well
16:09
isn't it for Britain because if you think you know what what sort of benefits that Britain gets from their
16:15
students their young people being able to travel across Europe just that travel experience but learn other languages
16:21
maybe you know learn other other trades and and then bring that back to Britain then sort that's got to benefit the
16:26
company the country rather in the long term and actually you value a lot of
16:31
things now because we don't have it I mean you find out the problems uh well
16:37
we already knew that that was a possibility car but I never respected um these situation because to
16:46
the citizens it doesn't help much does it I mean is is only problems administrative problems and you don't
16:54
win here at Customs you know I have a friend that he deals with Customs all the time now Customs is an issue yeah
17:01
everything actually I went round and around in circles at Christmas trying to deal with customs in Madrid because at any end what whatever somebody had sent
17:07
us got sent back you know but I I guess they were a bit hot at Christmas time with stuff you because you they were
17:14
making a few books suppose of people um but yeah it's been difficult you know the whole brexit scenario and it seems
17:20
like we've been talking about it forever and we continue to because it still rears its ugly head there are things not
17:25
happening in Britain now uh that we've been hearing about recently and and they can't actually go to the new rules
17:32
because they're not ready or they don't have the infrastructure or the technology and it's different to to be honest I think uh is going backwards in
17:40
a relationship you know is that everything needs to be a deal so now everything needs to be an individual
17:46
deal the other way around is like you're part of the club isn't it you're part of the club we all agree all these rules
17:51
okay like the rules the statutes of your company this is a minimum um I you you
17:58
know for example when we go to court uh call and now because of brexit as well
18:04
uh the agreements now are different the the the the international um um
18:11
agreements in through the courts are completely different so you would we had
18:16
previously under the EU for example let's say you have a divorce sentence a
18:21
divorce sentence I just need to Heap still the translation and then enforcing um it was not an issue because
18:28
it was a European country and I don't need to start the executor which is a procedure executor uh procedure it's
18:35
called in in in lating in Spain well now we need to enforce make that sentence
18:41
legal in Spain which is just time money and it takes you know more hassle to
18:47
legalize and make that legal because Britain is now a third country so outside the EU and then we need to
18:55
legalize that sentence and then and then it's enforceable you know all these things I mean well the brexiteers would
19:03
say that it's allowed Britain to be Freer and make its own trade agreements in other parts of the world that perhaps
19:08
the EU have never got done or or aren't interested in doing but hey you know that's up to them I know where we stand
19:14
on this all right we'll take a look at taxes specifically um in Madrid because
19:20
there's a new mbappe tax that we're hearing about but also Spain wide because the Beckham attack still applies
19:27
for a lot of people as as well this piece of legislation uh named after a famous footballer again cuz hey they're
19:33
the ones with the cash uh but he'll be probably the first to benefit from lower taxes in Madrid along with other
19:39
foreigners um he's French kilan mbappe for those who don't know current plays Paris sanman it's been going on and on
19:46
forever but it looks like he's going to sign for Real Madrid in the summer uh
19:51
but I think the rightwing Madrid government are looking there to attract more foreign investments into the region
19:58
uh with beneficial fiscal rates so it's something that they'll be able to do as they're an independent region um but um
20:06
well not independent but but a region of Spain uh independently of the central government taxation rules that's what I
20:12
was I was going to say whereas so the Beckham law though um which you quite well schooled on how what does that
20:18
allow people to do when they come to Spain well the the Beckham law as you know it was created and they did it
20:25
exactly the same they created for Beckham because he was the first one enjoy that that um specific uh tax
20:33
regime for people who worked um it was not about working remotely obviously it
20:38
was for working abroad and not being tax raising in in the old days it was 10
20:43
years now is five years so that law Beckham law is being modified recently because of the Norma Visa so the Norma
20:51
Visa is it's part of the startup law it's what we call it the startup law um
20:58
it was promoting about setting up business startups right and uh trying to
21:05
bring Talent from the from places and allowing them to work here to benefit
21:11
Spain as a whole so was in any of the regions not specifically mad which we're talking about for the mbappe one the
21:17
thing is uh to do a law uh you need to deal with the central government right
21:23
now in this case probably they are trying to concentrate in Madrid because
21:29
you know the state and Madrid uh every region controls 50% of the tax so
21:36
whatever tax you pay average it gives you 50% this community 50% the state so
21:42
if I I'm just guessing if they approach the president pro Isabel a Uso and she
21:50
was very because she's very proactive on bringing Talon bringing money uh reducing taxes so I'm sure that was
21:58
their approach uh and and they did approach her to do something to reduce
22:04
the tax how do you do it you need to do in Madrid to reduce the tax of what they
22:10
are capable to do otherwise they need to speak to Pedro San probably and and then make an agreement and probably that's
22:17
harder so maybe other regions could possibly follow should this mbappe law go through which it looks like it is
22:24
specifically applicants will be able to deduct 20% of all the money they invest in the Madrid region under the mbapp
22:31
corre law but the Beckham law as you said still exists for the whole of Spain and people can take advantage of that
22:37
are there any parameters on on on how much money you can and can't earn does it go up and changes do you mean you
22:45
mean law under the Beckham law that's what we know all about yeah the Beckham
22:50
law which is quite solid now um you need to be non-t tax resident in Spain for
22:56
more than 5 years so even his span who are working abroad and they're coming over here they could apply for the
23:02
Beckham law okay because they have been more than 5 years tax resident they haven't been tax raising
23:09
in Spain for more than 5 years then if you work remotely that's the Beckham law
23:15
uh and the company allows you and you register here and you pay your company pay social security here the taxation is
23:22
24% flat fee up to €600,000 income and you don't pay anything else
23:29
except income tax only based on that specific salary so if you have money
23:35
from property abroad you don't pay tax here if you don't qualify for wealth tax because that's do you still have to
23:42
declare on your on yeah that that you have this money that's not in the
23:47
country even if you're under the this particular law but my understanding um
23:52
my understanding is that if you're only going to be tax in Spain for the income
23:58
tax tax return return that you're having the rest of it is irrelevant okay if you're under that particular under that
24:04
particular Beckham law um the good thing here call is 24% up to 600,000 so that
24:10
allows all these players to get you know I was going to say yeah you have to be a football player pretty much you know or
24:16
a company director or something like that or owner of bay radio I mean you know that sort of
24:21
thing to to to benefit from the uh from the Beckham law I knew that would make you laugh yeah yeah yeah yeah a good one
24:29
yeah uh but yes um um Ember law I think is going to be yeah I've got a few of the details on it they're saying so um
24:37
the question is what's the catch so there are a few caveats um which depend on how long you stay in Madrid
24:42
specifically the new regulations established you'll have to stay and live in Madrid for a total of six years if
24:47
you leave before those six years are up you'll be forced to return part of the tax savings you made yeah so Madrid will
24:54
ultimately benefit as a region because it will get more of the tax that they wouldn't have got otherwise so uh yeah
25:01
yeah that's right uh they will get uh something and plus will bring wealth to
25:06
their region yeah so they will just you know they will spend the money they will spend the money in Madrid anyway so I
25:12
think that's the point and I I think the government Madrid is very proactive uh but you got a good point here could any
25:19
region do the same yes I mean Catalonia could do exactly the same yeah once they've sorted out the elections yeah
25:25
but they're too busy now with that you know they they're too busy with with elections on their own um AR internal
25:32
arguments call it yeah yeah absolutely just before you go ignio what what are
25:37
the things that you're dealing with most for people at the moment what are what what what is it that thing the things that people are struggling with ti still
25:43
a concern for instance right I still having um and then I just bring the attention to the audience if anybody
25:50
still struggling with a TI well TI swapping it would renewal but but
25:56
probably I'm sure there is people still that they did not apply for the ti yet
26:03
uh and they were here before you know so that's okay as I understand it if you have the green residency form if you've
26:09
got the green residency form you you should be fine uh swapping okay we need to get you an appointment you get an
26:15
appointment you put the Padre on your photo here you go and then in 3 weeks time you should have the TA that getting
26:23
an appointment is difficult though there still some it depends where you are but it's difficult for you know to wait for to get an appointment now what about
26:30
those who didn't have that green residency is that still possible I mean that's still possible I agree um and and
26:37
and do because we've been suing the administration so many times obviously they know us already in well as I
26:43
understand it in the court sometimes the judges are asking you guys because you deal with it far more often than they do
26:49
yeah actually uh there is not that many people that deals with his cases so they say as well and and actually the courts
26:56
have been pointing people to to Heria for these type of cases because uh
27:03
sometimes um these uh I mean the the administrative Court deals with
27:09
different different uh subjects for example not just esteria right um and
27:17
esteria which is foreign office um sometimes you get it a lot you get a lot
27:22
of lawyers with legal aid as well and I mean everybody get schooled in the
27:29
detail on every single part of and and the thing what we do call uh when when a
27:35
client comes to the to the office and they explain their problem and we try to find all possible solutions so we we
27:41
apply for for The Residency then we know already they're going to say no because
27:47
it's their attitude their attitude uh because of brexit is they submit they
27:53
say the insurance is out of date because they got the insurance let's say I've got everything accept insurance and I
27:59
get it today and I submit it tomorrow they will say I'm sorry I'm not giving you your ti because insurance is dated
28:05
today but the law doesn't say that the insurance needs to be dated when you were resident as well because you were
28:11
but you didn't apply for it so they're they're getting confused that's why I tell the lawyer of State they were
28:17
lawyer they were residents anyway they were residents but they didn't apply for the residency card that's something
28:24
different and they still insist that no no no no because you didn't in patreon you didn't have that so we take it to
28:31
court we have a hearing and then they hold a sentence thank God so far so good
28:36
everything with sentence in our favor most of them with legal cost and I try to insist insist is an average is even
28:43
though symbolic because probably they only pay you 500 or something like that but better nothing you know um and then
28:52
you wouldn't believe Carl some of the cases they still even there to appeal the decision
28:58
so the lawyer of estate appeals the decision of granting the residentia take it to the why they do that why do they
29:05
do that I don't know they're stubborn their way you know it's making our life more difficult and miserable that's see
29:11
that's why I tell them is that's why I go there and tell come up against you
29:16
listen I mean is our time there we have 5 10 minutes I tell them off I say this is unacceptable and um they still appeal so
29:24
you know what I'm doing now I'm enforcing that sentence to get their TI temporary ti so I try to get it
29:31
beforehand I see uh if I am not lucky if I get a sentence I try to get it after the sentence while they're appealing the
29:37
decision because I've got a few cases in this respect and they're appealing the decision uh which you wouldn't
29:43
understand why would you appeal that decision if we already have president in indeed that's the thing isn't it in law
29:49
it's it's already there it's frustrating W okay but you know it's good to know that there's somebody fighting the court
29:56
I love it to be honest every body really understands it and knows about it even the courts even the judges you had the
30:02
situation where the judges stopped proceedings to ask you what's the president here yeah I've
30:08
got a case in Mia and he was very interested because say he was the second case he dealt with the first one he was
30:14
already being a peel and he wanted to to learn more about it with all of us so he
30:19
after the hearing he stopped everything and he made a colloquium there with lawyers that were sitting there asking
30:25
me and and trying to understand why the Administration is being so tough stubborn you know but uh but they are
30:32
and and that's why as long as they carry on being stubborn we will carry on fighting for it keep pushing them great
30:38
to talk to you again ignio look forward to catching up in a couple of weeks and maybe at the webinar next Wednesday
30:44
alakan lawyers if you want to look up pela and Heredia it's the easiest way to do it alakan lawyers. and we'll talk
30:51
again soon nice to see you cheers thank
30:56
you for
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