To Be (in class), or Not To Be (in class) | The Reschool'd Podcast

Welcome to the Reschooled Podcast, the show that discusses all the things that schools

may have missed with your hosts, AJ Couty and Jason Gordon. Welcome back, everyone. I hope you're having a wonderful morning, day, evening, whichever

one you're listening to. Hopefully we will be able to add some brightness to that. As hopefully

you already know, we are the Reschooled Podcast, the show that discusses the things schools may not

have prepared you for. My name is AJ and sitting across from me again is my friend and co-host

Jason. Jason, what are some things that has been taking up some of your time these days

Well, AJ, you know, my hobby is writing music. So I've been writing a lot of songs lately

you know, trying to figure out... Are we talking like country, pop

Okay, so it's primarily country. Everybody who listens to this podcast has heard my slow, twangy voice by now

But believe it or not, I put lyrics on rock songs, rap songs

So I was going to say, is it like you lost your house, your dog? Is that the kind of thing

Yeah, but mine's more about, you know, that you just had a chance to wash my truck tailgate down

you know, that kind of stuff. The small country type genre. genre, the back road stuff, right

So that's primarily where I am right now. Though I did just write one of those Caribbean cowboy songs, right

You know, palm trees, cold margaritas. That is not even in my wheelhouse

I couldn't start to write a song. I'd love to, but it is, whew, buddy

No, me, I'm working on, well, I'm editing podcasts. I'm working on some videos, got class stuff, family stuff

My daughter's trying to get into soccer. So that's really nice to have one of your kids follow in your footsteps

Absolutely. Playing the sport that you like. Is she a goalie? No, she doesn't really know it right now

She's young enough to still kind of getting in the mix of it. I don't think – if she gets a little bit taller, she may

But she's got really good long distance running the endurance side of it

So she may be a midfielder, maybe a defensive player. but you know and then too i also got to add it when we're we're recording this in the summer of

2021 there is the euro going on there is the copa going on and in a few weeks we have the gold cup

going on so i'm living the best life right now i watched five soccer games last night or yesterday

i should say all day i'm loving it yeah i bet i'm bad now this is this is the time of the year for

soccer. Oh, man. Well, we are at the next chapter, chapter three of the College 101 series

First, we talked about how college works. Then we discussed choosing a major. Now in this chapter

we will be discussing the various types of class structures you may need to choose from

when you register your classes. For the most part, face-to-face or in-person is probably the

most common type you're going to see. And depending on where you go to college, it could be

the only option that you have. But there are other possible structures, especially with the pandemic

forcing a lot of these institutes to make a move towards a tech approach. So we're going to be also

discussing hybrid style courses as well as online courses, both synchronous and asynchronous

and the pros and cons of each of those. So does it sound good to you, Jason? Absolutely. I mean, we both taught all of those types of courses. So and it's like I said

some better than others. Yeah, some better than others. As a matter of fact, we're teaching a combination of those courses now because we haven't gone back to full face-to-face

in-person learning at our academic institution. So yeah, just side note, if you're listening to

this, you know, two, three years in advance and you don't, you've lived under a rock and don't

know what's happening in 2020, 2021, we had COVID, which is the quarantine that shut down everything

And so a lot of the colleges had to change. And when we talk about the pandemic and stuff, that's what we're referring to. Again, we don't know when you're going to be watching or listening

to this. So hopefully this stuff is timeless. Hopefully that would be the good thing. But

before we get to our quick question today, I just want to remind our followers to make sure you

follow us on Instagram, Twitter, LinkedIn, our handles are ReschooledPod. Make sure you go to

our website, Reschooled.com. You can check out what the show is about, check out the series

check out some of the other episodes that we've done. Also, you can get a look at us. You can see

kind of what us middle-aged men with families and what we look like and what we're all about

Uh, not my best picture, but we'll go with it. Uh, and also if you like what you hear, please hit the follow button on all the podcast apps

Uh, we'd love to, we'd love to help. So let's get to that quick question though

Given the option of face-to-face or in-person hybrid or online classes, which one would

have fit your learning style better and ultimately lended to a better learning experience for you

So personally, I was a face-to-face person, but that was based upon my personality type

I have strong opinions on, you know, a different format is right for different types of people

But given that I was a high contact need person, I didn't learn necessarily much from class

It was more of a reassurance of what I had already learned

I was a big prepare for class guy. I normally did my reading

I normally made notes before. I did not do that. So, right

But the in-person class for me, after just reading the book and getting my understanding, making my notes, thinking I have the concepts under my belt when I go into the classroom

And then hearing the professor walk through it and talk about things outside of the book

Me being able to ask questions because I was that guy. I ask a lot of questions

that was incredibly beneficial to me. But that may not be very beneficial to others, right

Particularly, I'd say people who haven't prepared for class ahead of time that are trying to learn it or get their initial exposure to it from class

Oftentimes, classes, you know, it's made to just check the learning points

So it goes through the whole chapter or all the material before you've learned even the basics of it

and that can be a little confusing. It can be a little daunting. It can also give you some false assurance that

okay, I at least have the principles down when you really don't yet

So for some people having that recording that they can watch whenever they're ready for it

and things like that, I think might be a little bit better. But what do you think? My answer would be face-to-face

My answer would easily be face-to-face again, because I know my style. I was somebody that needed the structure

the timeline in the class and I needed the audio side of it

I couldn't do the learning on my own. I couldn't do the, I was not disciplined enough

I knew myself well enough. I was not disciplined enough to do an online class, especially an asynchronous online class

And so I needed that face-to-face. And if I could, all my classes were face-to-face

Going back to what you're saying though, hypothetically speaking, I'm gonna put you on the spot real quick

You're in class and the teacher gives you a report that you have to create

and it's due in three weeks. What do you do? Well, honestly, I've been one of those people my entire life

and this is something I figured out about myself. You know, we talk a lot about understanding career paths

and how external environment meets your internal needs. Well, some of those things translate to the classroom

as to about how you're motivated towards things because a lot of that theory comes from motivation literature, right

So when someone tells me you have this to do by a timeline, I usually wait until I know I have enough time to do it, and then I do it

So what would that time frame be like? So if it were a project that I know I could do

Let's say a five-page paper or something like that. A five-page paper, I'd wait two days out

Okay, so we're about the same thing, because I was wondering if you were somebody that started immediately, or did you wait

Well, it depends. So if there was something that allowed for I was going to be proud of a creative output, something that I was going to be able to present to the crowd

And and often I got that in my literature culture classes because you're often delivering it in Spanish

Right. And another language. And then it was all it was the amount of research you wanted to do

so there was a huge disparity between the worst presentation or the worst done research or paper and the best one And I took such pride in it because in that scenario that was just I had to have it was it was one of those scenarios that said do as much as you can by this date

This is your cutoff. When things for me are structured like that here, do as much as you can

And here's the cutoff. I will work diligently the entire time. So if it were framed to me like that, I always started immediately. I got into it. I did the research. I started working on my presentation skills, working on how I deliver it to get to the point where it's not just material

then I could start introducing personality into it, jokes, things like that

So I was an early prep person. It was out of fear, right

I needed to do that to be successful. But I was that person in undergraduate that started early

I was a procrastinator. All right. We're on opposite sides of the page here

So that's good. No kidding. So we're going to help a whole bunch of people, hopefully. So before we get into it, let's break down each option

That way we can make sure everybody's on the same page. We kind of know what we're talking about when we say these different words or different styles of class

So what does it mean to take a face-to-face or in-person class

Well, generally, it's going to mean that there's a structured schedule of when classes meet

And those classes are going to meet in person. That is, the professor is going to be there and there's some expectation that students show up

The professor may take role and count that towards academic credit in the class

That is, it hurts you if you don't show up or it may be voluntary attendance

But all of the lecture material is going to be delivered there in the classroom

If you miss it, you've missed part of what you paid for in that class type scenario

That's in person or face to face. Now, people might the professor might record the lectures and then post them online or post the material online later

but still there is that expectation for either one day a week, two days a week, three days a week

or five days a week, you are going to meet physically in person in that class. Yeah. Even if it's a flipped classroom as well, it's still face-to-face

Absolutely. This is really the traditional, what you would think of as the traditional style of college classes

So a lot of times where you go, this is the only option that you may have

And you brought up an interesting point. You're going to hear funny words like flipped classroom and things like that

Flipped classroom, just to define it really quickly, is generally based on the traditional

classroom experience, but how you use your in-class time rather than the professor standing

up there and lecturing or doing some Socratic method of questioning around the classroom

is the professor generally uses the time to go over examples and to clarify, but not to

restate the things that you should have already learned from your notes, from videos or from

something like that, that was provided outside of the class. First big word of the day, Socratic

There you go. Socrates, ask questions. So I'll take on hybrid. Hybrid is, as you can imagine

well, maybe we should start with online. And because if we explain online, then we can explain

hybrid. That makes sense. So I'll start with synchronous online classes and synchronous online

classes is an online structure. So everything is done online. You do not meet in person

but it has the same feel as an in-person class. So everything is structured, use time-based

you meet at a certain time, you take tests at a certain time, assignments are due at a certain

time. So it is literally an in-person class, but online. You do not have to go to campus

And so there's a lot of similarities there. It's just, again, the tech side of it. So asynchronous class, on the other hand, has no time or very limited, or I should say, it has more flexible time. So there is no time to meet. A lot of asynchronous classes, you can think of them as I can do it at my own pace

some asynchronous classes has time restraints, but it's a very, you know, large gap. So instead

of taking a test between eight and nine 30, an asynchronous class may have the test open from

eight to eight or, you know, open over the weekend or something like that. So there's no time

structure whatsoever to it. Uh, or, you know, it has a very wide range of, of time structure

hybrid how would you explain hybrid hybrid is honestly a combination of the two different

schools approach it in different ways the most common way that i've seen is that you have some

synchronous generally in-person component where you have to show up on this day in person at this

time okay but the other side of it is they may have an online portion where they do the other

teaching the days that you're not in person, that you simply have an online synchronous

class where you go over things the same way under any model that they teach under, but

they'll deliver material or content during that scheduled time. So part of your classes are online, part of your classes are in person, but both are synchronous

Another approach to it is to take away that synchronous online, that is, this is when

the online portion happens, and then you'll simply put the material out there, recorded

videos, audio sessions, question and answer, online quizzes, things like that. Work that you have to complete that will somehow be measured or your attendance will be verified

or something like that outside of those in-person class sessions. But you're basically hybrid is a blend

just like a hybrid car mixes gasoline or diesel engine with electric motor

Here you're mixing the in-person experience with the online or otherwise asynchronous schedule

Also, too, and I'm going to add to that, don't assume that hybrid just means 50-50 split

It doesn't necessarily mean you're going to be in the class 50%, online 50%. It could be anywhere between a 20-75 split or a 75-25 split

I mean, there's a very wide range to it. And it could be, like Jason was saying, it could be that the online portion, you're doing

online class, so they have the synchronous side of it. Or it could be you learning at your own pace on the synchronous side and you just not come

into class. I actually taught a class prior to the pandemic that was a hybrid class

And it was an accounting information system class. And there was a lot of there was a very large piece of the lecture, the information side of it, where I teach you kind of going through the terms and concepts and the topics and stuff like that

But then there was also a very small portion of the class, probably about a 25 percent portion of the class

That was a project and it was a very big project. So what I did is I took days off all throughout the semester just to give the students time to do that project at their own because it is such an integral part to the class

That makes complete sense. It's a good point about the even split

It's not certainly not always an even split. I taught a hybrid class last semester that I would say the split was 25% in-person activity versus I used other formats for 75%, a combination of synchronous online, combination of asynchronous online, and secondary material sources

Well, let's get to the first, now that we've defined it, let's get to the first big question

And that is, what are some benefits of taking a face-to-face class over the other options

So I mentioned earlier, I was the type of person who needed that, right

Being a person who is prepared ahead of time, tried to learn the material on my own

I went to class just to verify that I knew it. One thing about the online format, you don't have the opportunity at the time to interact with the professor in the same way that you do in person

Anyone who's ever communicated with somebody through the Internet understands that it's a little bit different

So even if it a live online class session the ability to stop the professor during the lecture to raise your hand and gain their attention to have them clarify what they saying is reduced online And it starts to go away the further you get away from that in interaction type time period

So if you are the person who is going to interact with the professor, who is going to

ask those clarifying questions, who is going to depend on that level of personal conversation

the in-person is going to be instrumental for you. I'd say that's the primary one

There are a couple of other reasons, but do you have any? Yeah, so I'm going to piggyback on that

I think what you said is spot on. And I think when I read this question in our show doc and it says, you know, what's the benefit of it

I looked as my benefit is probably going to be the same for students as it is going to be my benefit for teaching face-to-face classes

I prefer teaching face-to-face classes. It's a little bit more laborious. It's also the time, you know, the time necessary in class

but I prefer it because there is a level of connection that I can get with my students in

class that I can't get anywhere else. And so if I'm doing a problem on the board

if somebody needs to ask a question, like you were saying, they can ask a question and I can

go through it and explain it to them better, their issue that they have, not this general

issue that they have, but their specific issue that they have. But even more importantly

the shy student in the back that doesn't want to ask the question. They give facial cues that I can

recognize to say, hey, this person still is not getting it. And I can go through it again until

I feel comfortable that they did get it. And I love that aspect of in-person classes

Absolutely. That's a great point. I wasn't even thinking about, you know, as professors, we can say

that most professors are there for the student in ways that the student doesn't often realize

We want to help. We want our students to be successful. We contrary to popular belief, we don't want you to fail

We hate giving bad grades in our perfect world. We would love to just see excellent papers come

Yeah. Come across our desk. That is what we are looking for. But, you know, that's not reality. Right

So things that make students reluctant to reach out and say things is one thing

But the fact that in person we can look and tell when you have need and we can jump in and intervene and say, look, I think you might be confused on this

Let me clarify. We can read your faces. We can read your body cues. That makes a difference

All right. What's one drawback from a face to face class? time. Some people just simply don't have the time to make it physically to class. Having to prepare

yourself, whether that's getting dressed, you know, traveling however far you need to travel

to get there, parking, getting into the school, carrying your books if they're physically heavy

right, that type of thing. Pandemic disease, right, is a concern, right, wearing masks and not wanting

to be exposed to the virus during the current pandemic, that type of thing

All of those things go into play as an inconvenience and can make it so that your primary thought

is not dedicated towards learning or acquiring knowledge at that point. It's more dedicated to, all right, now I have to do this

Now I have to do this. Now I have to do this. The time you spent traveling, preparing all those things could have easily been spent reading

the material, making notes, that type of thing. So I would say resource availability and time

Yeah, I don't think there's, I mean, there's other ones, but I obviously think that's the biggest one

I will say just to kind of give you another one, just to give you one more, is that if you are that student that is very shy, depending on where you go, you could be in a classroom of 300 students or you could be in a classroom of 30

It's a lot easier to talk to a professor, ask questions in a class of 30 rather than 300

So it may be very intimidating in that face-to-face setting if you have this large kind of auditorium class of 300 plus students

That's a great point. Right. Social anxiety is real. Right. Inhibitions from communication are real

And to a certain extent, if you are online and you are anonymous among a crowd, you don't have your video camera on

People can't actually see who is doing the communicating. You may be more willing to pose a question to the professor to challenge what is being said, to give your input because you're anonymous that you wouldn't have done in class otherwise

All right. Give me one benefit of taking a hybrid class. Multiple formats of learning. People learn differently. And when you blend that many techniques, you're more likely to address whatever method of learning is best for a broad array of students

You've got the element of in-class synchronous sessions where students can ask you questions

You've got the element of online elements where students can work at their own pace, however quickly they learn

You've got it. And that all depends on how well you blend the hybrid course

But like I say, different learning styles require different techniques and hybrid allows you greater flexibility in employing all of those

And my benefit would be it gives you the ability – I look at it as it's education of education. It gives you the ability to learn how to deal with online classes at a slower rate. So like for me, again, I needed that face-to-face contact, but I also knew that I'm going to – at some point, I'm going to have to do something online or when I even get into the professional field, I have to know how to time manage myself

And so it allowed me to get my toes wet a little bit in the time management on my own, the discipline that I needed and practice that before I just jump into the deep end and getting an online class or when I get into the workforce

Great point. I see that in my students a good bit. All right. What's one drawback of the hybrid class

Once again, it will require you to learn in certain methods that may not be the most comfortable to you

That is, if there is an element where you have to learn from exercises to do on your own or there is a requirement that you do more reading or more watching a video

some people cannot sit in front of a lecture, a recorded lecture that is, and stay awake, right

It is difficult to watch somebody on a screen where there's no interaction

It's very 2D. There's just very little that keeps you captivated in what the person's saying

So these blended methods can be harder for you. But by virtue of it being blended with the traditional format, if you are a traditional format type person, you need that interaction face to face

And then all of a sudden you're missing part of that, yet the expectation is that you've still learned the material to the same degree or extent may not work out that way

So that's a detriment. Yeah, I can't add much to that because I think that's spot on

I think to me the drawbacks of a hybrid is the same thing as what a hybrid is

The drawbacks are going to be a little bit of the drawbacks from the face-to-face and a little bit of the drawbacks from the online classes because that's what it is

And so I can't add much more than what you said. What is one benefit to taking a synchronous, synchronous, not asynchronous, but synchronous online class

Well, I would say first and foremost, if you understand the online format and you are OK with watching a video, not being there in person and using it that way

A synchronous online class means that the class still happens at those designated time periods

You still have the structure you need that I know my alarm is going to go off

I have to be in this class at this time. If there was anything to prepare ahead of time, that is to complete any homework, to do any quizzes online or anything like that ahead of time, you still have a set timeline to do it

So for higher structure need people like yourself, right, that's going to be a big benefit for, you know, less so for a low structure need

person like me now because I tend to structure my own life right I don't I

particularly don't like other people giving me the structure I want to make my

own structure though I am fairly structured in how I approach it so that being said I say that that my number one input on that Yeah My benefit for synchronous online classes is just it gives me what I need from the face like you said

the structure, but it gives me the flexibility of where I'm at. So I don't necessarily have to

be on campus. A beautiful thing that happened during the pandemic last year in the summer is

you know, for us, as much for students, it is for teachers, you know, we still have to be online

teaching class. I was able to teach class in a different location. I, you know, I was

I was able to teach class on a beach, which was lovely. That does sound lovely

But that's the same thing for a student. They can be in there because you have a lot of

international students. They can be in their home country and still be a part of the class

and still have that structure that they need as a, from a face-to-face class

Great point. Absolutely. Certain students have different needs and it could be extremely valuable to particularly the international student or their student with a long commute to campus

So give me one drawback to synchronous online classes. You have to show up at that period. So the very nature of it, again, is if you understand, if you are a structured person, you learn this stuff on your own

Going to class is just making certain that you know it. There may be time periods in your life with work, family, whatever obligations where you want to push one aspect of learning back and say, I'll cover this chapter and material a little bit later

You're still stuck to the schedule of the class. And if there is some attendance requirement, things like that, all of a sudden it's a drawback, right

You're being exposed to something before you've prepared for it. You're not getting the benefit out of it

Where perhaps if you had asynchronous, where you watch the class lecture when you were ready to, perhaps it would be more efficient for you

You wouldn't waste as much time and you get more out of that educational process

Right. So my drawback for synchronous online classes is there is a degree of discipline that you have to have internally in order to succeed

And if you don't have that, it is super easy to fail. True

And even though that you have the structure of the class to say, I'm going to be online at this time. And even though you get up, your alarm clock goes off. And I don't know how many times I've been in a synchronous online class on our Zoom or Teams or whatever. And I have students laying in bed with their camera on because they just woke up, which is not a big deal to me

But the discipline to not have the distractions around you takes away from the class as well

If I'm in a class, yeah, I'll get the attendance. But if the TV is on the background, too, then I'm not paying attention

I'm not getting anything out of it. So I think there's a very there's to a degree there is a level of discipline that can make or break your grade when it comes to synchronous

Great point. All right. Give me one benefit of asynchronous online classes

Well, it is the converse of what I said as a disadvantage of the other

I can learn this when I want to, at the pace I want to

I have students who are into a certain topic. They will learn the material all up front

And then when certain assignments are due, they'll just jump back in and refresh throughout the semester

So it allows you to structure your own schedule better. OK, the student who is highly structured can customize their educational experience the way they want to far better than they can in person or synchronous online

Agreed. And I would say the big thing for me is the fact that if you're a what is considered a nontraditional student, it allows you to have that or gain that work experience if you have a job and still maintain your school career, your college career

because, again, you're doing it at your own pace. So if you're working an eight to five or nine to five job

you can still take a full load of classes because you're doing it at your own pace

Absolutely. So that would be my benefit. What would be your drawback? Well, once again, it's just you have to be structured

That's a risk to a student who does not have the self-discipline to set a schedule for learning

to fulfill that schedule, and then to use the class sessions and things like that

the way they were meant to for assurance of learning and to further inquiries about specific

things that you don't understand. It takes more effort in that regard. So if you're not structured

big risk. If you are super structured, great. I would say my drawback is a multiple, I guess you

would say, of the drawback from the synchronous online classes where I said to a degree the

discipline can affect you. In asynchronous classes, that discipline, if you don't have it

it can affect you even worse. I mean, it's just exponentially worse because you're going to be

looking and go, Oh, I forgot I had a test today, or I need to take this test or I have this

or I need to study for this or, and it can back up. It could get to a point where you're having

to do everything at the end of the semester because you just didn't have the discipline to schedule it out. And that's something that I, again, I struggled with. I was, I was a

I pushed things back really quickly because we're getting close to the end of the show

So what are some variables a student should consider when it comes to making the best choice for which style of the class they need to take or they should take

So I have a checklist again. Sure. Your personality, right? Are you high structure need, low structure need

What's your level of discipline? Resources, right? Can you get to campus, right

Do you have the ability to show up? Is it going to take away that type of thing

Class availability. You don't want to not take a foundational class at a certain time if you know it's going to affect the other part of your schedule very negatively

So you may have to make some modifications and say, look, I'm not a hybrid class or an asynchronous online class person, but I have to do it this semester because I need that prerequisite for the following semester or I need to be taking this at the same time

And this is all that's offered. OK, so those are the three big things

Right. Personal tendency, resource availability, and then how it blends with your other classes

Yeah, I think it's just the motive for me. It's the motive of taking the classes. I think it is. What are you trying to get out of it

If I was taking a class that had nothing to do with my degree, a major, it had nothing to do with, you know, anything of importance or at least what I saw as an importance academically from my major standpoint, then I probably would have taken it as an online because, you know, I felt myself, I wouldn't learn really as much as I needed to in an online class

So if I took what would be considered maybe an easy A class or something that wasn't directly, it wouldn't directly impact my degree or my level of learning on my degree, I would take as an online

But if it's something that I needed to learn for my future, not for the grade, not for anything else, but it was something directly tied to my major and I needed to learn it very, very well, then face-to-face was definitely my go-to class because that's where, like you said, I can ask the questions

I had a better connection with a professor. They can see my facial cues if I am struggling and whatnot

So that's what I would that's what I tended to go towards when I was making that decision

That makes sense. Well, that'll do it for today's episode. The next two weeks, we are I'm super stoked about it, especially the one in two weeks, because we're going to be talking about how to get the most out of your college experience

The first one, we're going to be looking at how to get the most out of your college experience from an academic side

but then the one I'm really looking forward to is the one right after that. And that is just more or less how to have fun in college

the fun side of college, the extracurriculars, the things that most of us think about when we go to college

when we get into college, especially if we're going to college in a different town as our parents

But as always, please drop us a line on a website, Twitter, Instagram. Let us know your success stories

Again, we'd love to hear your success stories. We may even give you a shout out on the show. But until next time, Jason, you got anything

No, y'all just get us those questions and we'll address them. Awesome. We'll see you next time. Goodbye

Take care. Thanks for listening to the Reschooled Podcast. Be sure to head over to Reschooled.com for news and other information on things we're getting into