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"Tar Heel Tribune Podcast" Episode 5: David Glenn of the North Carolina Sports Network #UNC
Jul 30, 2026
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0:00
And we are back on the Tar Hill Tribune
0:02
podcast along with RL Binham, the
0:04
founder and publisher of the Tar Hill
0:05
Tribune. My name is Britt Whitmire. So
0:07
glad to have a special guest with us
0:09
today. Uh you know him as an attorney, a
0:12
radio host. Uh he's also a columnist for
0:15
chapel.com and you can check out his
0:17
channel on YouTube right now, North
0:18
Carolina Sports Network. Go and
0:20
subscribe to that right now. This is
0:22
David Glenn. Thanks for joining us,
0:23
David.
0:26
>> Hi Britt. Thank you for that
0:27
introduction. RL, great to see you again
0:29
as well.
0:30
>> Great to see you. I go back uh with Dave
0:34
until the it was back to late 90s when I
0:36
was at the Herald Sports Desk and he was
0:38
working there part-time. Uh that was
0:40
back when the Herald Sun was had an
0:42
autonomous newspaper before Mlache
0:44
merged with the NO. So that was a long
0:46
time ago.
0:47
>> A long time ago.
0:48
>> But uh Dave's one of the more one of the
0:51
more authoritative media voices in the
0:52
ACC. So we're happy that uh you're
0:55
joining us. Uh a rare bit of drama in
0:58
the Bellichic era at the Keenan Football
1:00
Center as they started practice today
1:04
with the uh Michael Lombardi going on
1:06
paid administrative leave. Uh what do
1:08
you make of this mess?
1:10
>> Well, mess is a good word. Uh this was a
1:14
unusual, you might say, dysfunctional
1:17
hiring process that led to Bill Bich
1:19
with Bubba Cunningham talking in a more
1:21
conventional way to coaches and then of
1:24
course John Prior then the board of
1:25
trustees, chairman at UNCC having
1:27
essentially a parallel renegade coaching
1:30
search of his own that ultimately led to
1:33
Bill Bich being hired. Um, and if you
1:36
fast forward, Bill Bich, despite his
1:39
tremendous football X and knowledge that
1:42
none of us would disagree with, two of
1:44
his biggest hires were Mike Lombardi at
1:46
GM and at the time, Freddy Kitchens at
1:49
offensive coordinator. And whereas for
1:52
the rest of my life and then some, I
1:54
will defer to Bill Bich on all matters
1:56
related to X's and O's and most matters
1:58
related to football. Uh, I have been
2:01
around for almost 40 years. and the idea
2:04
in modern college sports of asking Mike
2:07
Lombardi, whose last college sports
2:09
experience was in the early 1980s at
2:11
UNLV, to be your GM when he had been a
2:15
sports gambling podcaster for most of
2:17
the last decade. Nothing against sports
2:19
gambling podcasters, but that's not the
2:22
line item I'm looking for on the resume
2:23
of a college football GM. Uh, and then
2:26
he hired Freddy Kitchens, who has little
2:28
to no track record as a play caller or
2:30
an offensive coordinator despite once
2:32
holding the title of NFL head coach.
2:34
Remember, he was M. Brown's tight end's
2:36
coach. Well, I think Bill Bich is being
2:39
handed a dose of humble pie. No matter
2:42
how great you are, if you mess up a
2:44
couple of your most important hires,
2:45
it's going to come back to haunt you.
2:47
And I think UNCC is being reminded that
2:49
if you have a dysfunctional hierarchy,
2:53
chancellor, board of trustees, parallel
2:56
coaching searches, lots of political
2:58
infighting, more than any time I've seen
3:00
in my 40 years covering UNCC and Chapel
3:03
Hill, if you have a dysfunctional
3:05
hierarchy and a dysfunctional hiring
3:07
process, you should not be surprised if
3:10
you have both a poor performance on the
3:12
field last year at 4 and 8 and then a
3:14
circus sideshow off the field to go with
3:17
it.
3:18
>> And Bruce Felman made a comment on
3:20
Lombardi. He said, "Aarrogance plus
3:22
incompetence is a lethal combination. I
3:25
mean, it's widely viewed that he's not
3:29
there not many people who really get
3:31
along with him and to be paid 1.5
3:34
million a year, it sounds like he may
3:37
not be the best talent evaluator."
3:41
>> That's true. And that goes back to Bill
3:43
Bellichic. You know, why did he hire
3:46
Mike Lombardi? Because Bill Bich has
3:48
such an unusual set of personal
3:50
relationships, right? You'd think that
3:52
Tom Brady and Bill Bich would have a
3:54
good relationship. They don't. It's
3:56
complicated, right? They won a lot
3:58
together. They're in the history books
4:00
together forever. And yet Tom Brady has
4:04
has made public comments along the lines
4:06
of, "Man, I just wish the guy would
4:09
smile once in a while. I I wish the guy
4:11
would say good job a little bit more
4:14
often, right? Like Bill Bellichic has
4:18
unconventional interpersonal
4:20
relationships. And was Mike Lombardi a
4:24
hire at GM because Bill Bich didn't have
4:26
a better candidate in his inner circle
4:28
after alienating a whole lot of people?
4:31
Fans don't ma fans don't care for the
4:33
most part that Bill Bich does not
4:35
cooperate with the media. Right. Right.
4:38
I mean, I've been doing radio row for
4:39
three plus decades, Bill Bichc is the
4:42
only coach in football or men's
4:43
basketball. In three plus decades of ACC
4:46
media events that I have seen both skip
4:49
Radio Row entirely and not arrange
4:53
one-on-one interviews separately, the
4:55
way a few famous coaches did who didn't
4:58
want the paparazzi of Radio Row, and
5:01
last year not even tell anybody that he
5:03
wasn't coming until essentially minutes
5:05
beforehand. Whereas fans don't care for
5:09
the most part if coaches are
5:10
unprofessional with the media, they do
5:12
care about four and eight.
5:14
>> They do care about running out of money
5:17
for for transfers in the transfer
5:19
portal. And Michael Lombardi was
5:21
underqualified for this position. If he
5:25
returns and he and Bill Bich turn it
5:27
around, his his resume isn't going to
5:30
matter, right? But when you are poor
5:33
with your performance on the field, you
5:35
invite questions about why you were
5:37
hired. How do you treat people? How do
5:39
you treat boosters? How do you treat the
5:41
media? Are there reasons to believe that
5:44
after a 48 record, you can do much
5:46
better in year two or in subsequent
5:48
years? All those peripheral things
5:50
matter more when you're not winning on
5:53
the field. And not only did the Heels go
5:55
four and eight last year, uh they were
5:57
uncompetitive in at least four of those
5:59
eight losses. And I know Bill Bich and
6:02
and Mike Lombardi have both made, you
6:05
can call them explanations, you can call
6:06
them excuses for why they were
6:09
undertalented last year, but Jake
6:11
Dickert was hired at Wake Forest a week
6:13
after Bill Bich was hired at Carolina.
6:17
And guess what? Jake Dickard had
6:19
experience with hiring a staff
6:21
specifically at the college level and
6:24
got those hires right. Jake Jake Dickert
6:27
had experience with name, image,
6:28
likeness money for a period of years and
6:31
got those things right. Jake Dickard had
6:34
a quarterback go through all of spring
6:36
practice that ended up representing the
6:37
Deacons on the field in the fall. He got
6:39
that right. He managed what was then two
6:42
transfer portals. Remember the January
6:44
December one in football and then the
6:46
postspring practice one. That's a lot of
6:49
layers where Jake Dickert has had
6:51
experience as a college head coach. Bill
6:54
Bichc had none of that. And the GM he
6:57
hired had none of that. So what happens?
7:00
It's not quite this simple, but Jake
7:02
Dickert was able to hit the ground
7:03
running. And in the history of Wake
7:05
Forest football, no firstear coach has
7:08
had more than his nine wins last year.
7:10
The best firstear performance in a
7:12
hundred years of Wake Forest football.
7:14
Arguably, Bill Bich mostly face planted.
7:17
And I I think fundamental to why he
7:20
faceplanted. Of course, it's not that he
7:22
doesn't know football or know how to
7:24
coach football. Of course, he does. But
7:26
a general manager hire is fundamental to
7:29
your success in modern college football.
7:31
And especially if you're a defensive
7:33
guru, which Bill Bich certainly is, your
7:35
offensive coordinator hire is one of the
7:37
other most important decisions you make.
7:39
He was 0 for two in those decisions.
7:42
We'll see how Bobby Petrino works out in
7:44
year two, but he he essentially Bill
7:47
Bich and Mike Lombardi planted the seeds
7:50
to set themselves up for failure in year
7:52
one. Jake Dickert planted the seeds to
7:55
set himself up for the possibility of
7:57
success. And the Deaks were nine and
7:59
four and the Heels were four and eight.
8:02
And all of those things are tied
8:04
together. And Bill Bich didn't even have
8:07
uh the class to shake Jake Dickard's
8:10
hand with more than a bulldozer, you
8:13
know, run through when Jake Dickard had
8:16
carefully taken off his cap for the Hall
8:18
of Fame coach. Again, these are little
8:20
things. I understand why most fans say,
8:22
"I don't care about that goofy stuff.
8:23
Who do who does Glenn think he is to to
8:25
make these observations?" Well, guess
8:27
what? When you're not winning, how you
8:29
treat people matters. And both Bill Bich
8:33
and Mike Lombardi have alienated an
8:35
extraordinary number of people in the
8:38
the the manner in which they conduct
8:41
themselves as people in their day-to-day
8:43
job description.
8:44
>> I try to on this podcast avoid uh hot
8:48
takes because I have so much respect for
8:50
RL and his journalism and you guys are
8:51
both great journalists. So feel free to
8:53
I'm going to make one hot take and you
8:56
boys can feel free to run away from this
8:58
as far as you want to. If you're on if
9:00
you download Cali or Poly Market and you
9:03
can make the bet that Bobby Petrino ends
9:04
up as the head coach of this football
9:06
team on June 1st of 2027 and you get 200
9:10
to one on that. Maybe you go ahead and
9:13
make that bet. Maybe you go ahead and
9:15
make that bet. Uh Mike Lombardi on your
9:17
betting podcast. Bobby Petrino is just
9:19
this guy that kind of sidles in and when
9:22
something happens to the top guy, he
9:23
kind of sidles into the top spot. He's
9:25
never got the murder weapon in his
9:27
hands, but he's always kind of near the
9:28
body. That's Bobby Patri. [laughter]
9:34
>> And often there's a a pretty young woman
9:36
on the back of his motorcycle while he's
9:38
starring in that show.
9:39
>> All you got to do All you got to do when
9:41
you hire him as head coach is have the
9:42
no motorcycle clause. That's all you got
9:43
to do is have that in the contract,
9:45
David.
9:47
[snorts]
9:47
>> Yeah, I've heard. Um
9:50
it I think I I you chose what was it
9:54
that summer 2027 date for your hottake.
9:57
I think that's less likely because
10:01
remember if there's a year two face
10:03
plant under Bill Bellichic, Carolina can
10:06
fire him in January of 2027 for $10
10:09
million. I know $10 million is a lot of
10:12
money, but in the context of college
10:13
football buyouts, we have seen 40
10:16
million, 50 million, 60 million, 70
10:18
million. So 10 million is is relatively
10:22
manageable and that's what it would
10:23
become January. So I so they wouldn't
10:26
need Bobby Petrino uh starting in 2027
10:29
if it came to that. But I wouldn't laugh
10:31
aside the suggestion that what if the
10:34
Mike Lombardi situation continues to go
10:36
sideways. What if and we know the UNCC
10:39
hierarchy is mostly afraid of Bill Bich
10:43
and I have tremendous respect for Bubba
10:46
Cunningham as the the most recent UNCC
10:49
athletic director. I don't know Steve
10:51
Numar as well, but Bill Bich is somebody
10:55
who doesn't take orders from anybody. I
10:58
I asked at the time he was hired, what
11:00
questions were asked of Bill Bich during
11:02
that interview, were there fanboy
11:04
questions? Was there a lot of
11:06
reminiscence about his dad being an
11:08
assistant coach for the Tarheelss and
11:10
young Bill wore a Carolina jersey and he
11:13
wants to return to his roots and beat
11:15
Duke and all that cute stuff? I have
11:17
nothing against those questions. But if
11:20
if anybody was wearing their big boy
11:23
pants or big girl pants during that
11:25
interview process, you also ask who are
11:29
you thinking of as a general manager?
11:31
What experience does that person have
11:33
with negotiating contracts in modern
11:35
college football? How when's the last
11:38
time he was in major college football?
11:40
Who do you have in mind for an offensive
11:43
coordinator? Were you asking any tough
11:45
questions or were you just cowtowing to
11:47
a six-time Super Bowl champion?
11:48
>> Right.
11:49
>> I don't know the answers to those
11:50
questions, but those should have been
11:52
asked. And the reason I even bring that
11:54
up, the more cowtowing there is, well
11:57
then I haven't seen evidence that
12:00
Chancellor Lee Roberts is going to say,
12:02
"Hey, Bill, you can't treat the media
12:04
that way." I haven't seen evidence that
12:06
Steve Newark or Bubba Cunningham has
12:08
said, "Hey, you can't not show up on
12:11
time to these booster events,
12:13
>> right?"
12:13
>> Which there are stories of that in the
12:15
UNCC extended family where M. Brown was
12:18
the ultimate gladhander and great at
12:21
raising money and a good recruiter and
12:23
good with high school coaches. And there
12:25
are already stories that Bill Bich just
12:28
doesn't like to do that stuff, right? I
12:30
haven't seen anybody tell Bill Bichc
12:33
when he's gone too far or when he's gone
12:36
off the beaten trail or or when he's not
12:39
represented UNCC in a Carolina type way.
12:43
Guys, I I've I've mcded the pigkin
12:46
preview for most of the last 25 years.
12:48
And this is a parallel to my story about
12:50
Bill Bich being the only guy to
12:52
completely skip radio row in 30 plus
12:54
years at ACC media events. I'm on stage
12:58
with five coaches. It's five famous
13:00
football coaches and me. Okay? And for
13:04
25 years in a row, the head coaches show
13:07
up on time. There is one and only one
13:10
coach who hasn't shown up on time and
13:11
he's done it two years in a row. And and
13:14
it was Bill Bichc both times. Like
13:17
again, he doesn't need me. He doesn't
13:20
need the pigkin preview. But somebody in
13:24
any healthy chain of command has to be
13:26
able to say when you agree to appear in
13:30
front of hundreds of people who have
13:31
paid thousands of dollars for the pigkin
13:33
preview that's done in the memory of
13:36
legendary late football coach at UNCC
13:38
Bill Douly and his foundation which
13:40
raises hundreds of thousands of dollars
13:43
for student athletes in our local
13:44
communities and and helps them get to
13:47
college or extend their athletic
13:48
careers. You do it the right way. the
13:52
way every other coach at all five of
13:54
those schools have done it for 25 years.
13:57
I'm not saying it's easy to take on
14:00
powerful people. Okay? I I'm not naive,
14:03
but I've been employed. I've gone into
14:05
the president's office, the CEO's
14:07
office, my the guy who signs my checks
14:09
office, and at times told them, "This is
14:11
not acceptable. I'm only the soldier,
14:14
and I go into the general's office and
14:17
say, "This is not acceptable." When
14:19
you're higher in the chain of command
14:21
and you appear to be afraid of your
14:24
football coach, something is
14:26
fundamentally dysfunctional,
14:29
fundamentally unhealthy. And again, if
14:32
you win on the field, nobody's going to
14:34
care. And Bill Bich will have absolute
14:37
autonomy if as long as he keeps winning.
14:39
But it is really unhealthy that that man
14:43
made hundreds of people wait 30 minutes
14:48
who had carved out their time for a
14:50
charitable event that was executed
14:53
without a problem 20ome years in a row
14:56
prior to his arrival.
14:57
>> Right?
14:58
>> Look, man, I know you won six Super
15:00
Bowls. I'm going to treat you with
15:01
respect up on stage. I treat you with
15:04
respect. And he shakes my hand every
15:05
year. But I'd also say, dude, that's not
15:08
okay. It's not okay. And yeah, you're
15:11
wealthier than the people in this room
15:12
and more famous and all that. It's still
15:14
not okay. And if you're a UNCC
15:17
chancellor, UNCC athletic director,
15:19
board of dire, you know, board of
15:20
trustees person, you got to get
15:22
somebody's ear to say, reel this man in
15:26
because he is not a tyrant. He is not an
15:28
all powerful, all- knowing being. And if
15:31
he's going to represent the University
15:32
of North Carolina, he needs to he needs
15:34
to rise to certain baselines. I mean, I
15:37
guess he didn't skip media days
15:38
altogether. He didn't skip the triangle
15:40
pigkin preview altogether. I mean, you
15:42
want a bouquet for that. I'll buy the
15:44
flowers. But you still have to do other
15:46
things. Well, especially when you're not
15:48
winning on the field. And I don't see
15:50
any reason to expect the Tarheelss to
15:52
win on the field in year two after the 4
15:55
and8 debacle of year one. That's I mean
15:57
I think I've been thinking a lot in the
15:58
past I don't know 79 hours as we record
16:01
this since the the email came out at 8
16:03
o'clock on Monday morning. And by the
16:04
way that's a message too. I think uh
16:07
I've been thinking a lot about Lane
16:08
Keifin. Lane Keifin comes with a
16:10
ridiculous amount of of baggage.
16:11
Everybody knows this. There's just a
16:13
tremendous amount of of just sociopathic
16:16
cell phones and just really ridiculous
16:19
kind of uh look at me situations with
16:21
him. But you know what Lane Kippen does?
16:22
He wins a football game every now and
16:24
again. So he gets away with some stuff
16:26
because he wins football games. And the
16:27
stuff that you're talking about is
16:29
somebody in that administration,
16:31
somebody in that university can't go up
16:32
to Bill Bich and go, "I know you don't
16:35
want to be everybody's buddy and put
16:37
your arm around a reporter and stuff
16:38
like but until you go 12 and one, we're
16:41
going to have to do a little dance.
16:43
Nobody can do that to him apparently."
16:45
>> Yeah.
16:47
I haven't seen evidence that anybody's
16:49
willing to try to do it or maybe
16:50
somebody has and he just says, "I'm Bill
16:52
Bichc." you know, I know what the bare
16:55
minimums are in my contract and you got
16:57
to pay me the 10 million as long as I do
16:59
all these things that are specifically
17:00
outlined. I practiced contract law for
17:03
20 years, right?
17:04
>> And for the most part, when you write a
17:06
contract, not every single thing is
17:09
written out down to the last word and
17:11
the last letter, right? I mean, if he's
17:14
if he's supposed to appear at X number
17:16
of booster events and he he appears in
17:18
only X number instead of Y and that's in
17:21
his contract, could you penalize him
17:23
financially? I assume you could,
17:25
>> but do on the one hand, do I understand
17:28
if you're a UNCC decision maker, do you
17:30
want to not alienate Bill Bich? Heck,
17:33
I'm an MC of a charity event and I don't
17:35
want to personally alienate Bill Bich. I
17:38
want him to go back as to that event as
17:40
long as he's the Tar Hills head coach. I
17:42
would remind him to try to be on time
17:43
for a change, but I do want him to come
17:45
back. And he actually gives some very
17:47
thoughtful answers. But no, to your
17:50
point, I've always joked, and it's only
17:52
an exaggeration, obviously. You could be
17:53
one step short of an axe murderer.
17:56
>> Yeah.
17:56
>> And be retained as a head coach if you
17:58
win enough games and you win enough
17:59
championships. True. Slight
18:01
exaggeration, I know.
18:03
>> But it's only so far from the truth.
18:06
Whereas again, if you lose consistently
18:08
enough, long enough, and when you're in
18:09
your mid70s, you don't get a long ramp,
18:12
uh those other things matter and you get
18:15
the benefit of the doubt sometimes if
18:17
you do all the other things well. Good
18:18
with boosters, good with media, good
18:20
fundraiser, good for morale, all those
18:23
things. Bill Bichc is not good at those
18:26
things, so he better win on the field or
18:28
this is going to be a two-year
18:29
experiment in Chapel Hill. And then
18:32
later Monday, Pablo Tory, who's done a
18:35
good bit of reporting about Bill Bich
18:37
and Jordan Hudson, uh reported that the
18:41
College Sports Commission was
18:42
investigating UNCC. Other reporting has
18:45
suggested that they've only looked into
18:47
the actions and are asking questions. Uh
18:50
what do you know about that angle?
18:52
>> Just that I know a lot about the College
18:54
Sports Commission. You know, the House
18:57
settlement is a term that all college
18:59
sports fans have heard, and it's
19:01
essentially a 10-year framework for how
19:03
college sports is going to run. Uh,
19:06
unless the United States Congress
19:07
creates a different framework for how
19:09
college sports is going to run. And
19:11
we're only one year into what's called
19:12
revenue sharing, the 20 plus million
19:15
that schools are allowed to pay their
19:16
athletes directly. And we're only five
19:18
or six years into name, image, likeness
19:20
payments from third parties. So,
19:22
somebody has to govern those rules. And
19:25
whereas for decades, we got used to
19:27
hearing about the NCAA penalties for
19:29
this or that, agents or academics or
19:32
something else. Now, it's this college
19:34
sports commission that has been tasked
19:35
with governing any I think it's larger
19:39
than $600 name image likeness deal has
19:42
to go through essentially a clearing
19:44
house where they're trying to determine
19:47
is this really compensation in exchange
19:50
for something of value where the young
19:52
person, the athlete is doing autograph
19:56
signings or public appearances or
19:58
speaking engagements or promoting a
20:00
product or a service through their
20:02
social media. Like you can you can put
20:04
values on those things and you can say,
20:06
"All right, this school is trying to pay
20:07
this person this much in revenue sharing
20:09
and this outside party is trying to pay
20:11
this person this other amount in revenue
20:13
sharing. Is this is this legit?" So the
20:16
College Sports Commission is designed to
20:18
make sure nobody's violating the rules
20:20
about revenue sharing, violating the
20:22
rules about name, image, likeness. As
20:25
with the HR complaint, this is an
20:26
ongoing thing. And you know, as they say
20:29
in the criminal justice system,
20:30
everybody is innocent until proven
20:32
guilty. So that has to play out under
20:35
the NCAA umbrella through the College
20:37
Sports Commission. Was UNCC evading the
20:40
revenue sharing cap somehow? Was UNC
20:44
uh cooperating with inappropriate name
20:47
image likeness attempts? You know, we'll
20:49
see where wherever the evidence goes,
20:51
that'll be the verdict. Um and on the HR
20:53
side, we'll see as well. That is an
20:55
ongoing situation. But I don't have any
20:58
extra details under the other than
21:00
that's what the college sports
21:02
commission does. And if they have an
21:04
inquiry into your program, it is
21:06
definitely about the money, how money is
21:09
exchanging hands and whether it is being
21:11
exchanged under the rules of the house
21:14
settlement and the NIL uh agreement.
21:17
>> And we're recording this uh Thursday
21:19
afternoon. And uh this morning I was
21:22
able to see 20 minutes of their first
21:24
practice and there was press conferences
21:25
for Belichc Patrino, special teams coach
21:28
Billy Miller,
21:30
running back Benjamin Hall, defensive
21:32
lineman Leroy Jackson. So there was a
21:34
lot. But before Bellichic and Patrino
21:38
came out, Brandon Faber, who is
21:41
basically Belich's handler, uh reminded
21:44
all of us that he couldn't comment on
21:47
Lombardi, which is no surprise. The uh
21:51
and they put out a statement this
21:52
morning that basically didn't say
21:54
anything much to to
21:57
give more details, only confirming the
22:00
HR investigation. So, you know, there
22:03
wasn't a lot more there. Uh, the strange
22:06
part of practice is that running back
22:07
Caleb Jackson, the LSU transfer, was
22:09
wearing number 62. [laughter]
22:13
But we got we got uh Bellichic before
22:16
practice and we asked Patrino about it
22:18
because we had him after practice and he
22:20
said, "Oh, you'll have to ask Belic."
22:22
But, uh, anyway, uh, football-wise,
22:27
I mean, I can't argue with the, uh,
22:30
prediction of 15th in the ACC. I voted
22:33
in 14th, but, uh, it just, what, what do
22:37
you think are the real possibilities for
22:39
this team?
22:41
I think probably getting to the bottom
22:44
line and working backwards, the bottom
22:45
line is Carolina could be a better
22:47
football team and have the same record
22:51
because last year's schedule to me was a
22:53
bit more manageable. This year's
22:55
schedule includes, you know, TCU
22:58
overseas, but also a good expected to be
23:01
good Notre Dame team.
23:02
>> You got to deal with a trip to Death
23:04
Valley and Clemson. You have to deal
23:06
with a Louisville team that I expect to
23:09
be one of the ACC contenders. You have
23:11
to deal with an NC State team that has
23:13
beaten the Tar Hills head-to-head five
23:14
straight times and and eight of the last
23:16
10. Um, you know, a trip to Pit is not
23:19
easy. A trip to Yukon is not as easy as
23:22
it once was. So, could you be a slightly
23:25
better football team and still finish
23:26
four and eight? I think the answer to
23:28
that is yes. Um, are there really good
23:31
players in certain spots? I think the
23:33
answer to that is yes. I would want
23:34
Jordan Ship on my team at wide receiver,
23:37
right? I would want Melcard Buja on my
23:40
team at defensive end. That's a very
23:42
important position in college football.
23:44
Uh Jaden Patterson in the defensive
23:46
secondary. Christo Kelly, they really
23:48
like at at center. Um I don't know how
23:51
much longer the you mentioned Ben Hall
23:53
and Leroy Jackson earlier. RL I think
23:55
the Tarheelss feel good about those guys
23:58
at those positions. Um, but Carolina was
24:01
not a was not a competitive football
24:03
team on the offensive side of the ball
24:05
last year for a lot of different
24:07
reasons. They were truly embarrassing.
24:08
That's not an exaggeration. They were
24:11
competitive, I would argue, more often
24:13
than not on defense under Steve Bellich.
24:16
Um, and they have at least some good
24:18
players back on that side of the ball.
24:20
But UNCC didn't get good quarterback
24:22
play last year. Didn't get good
24:24
offensive line play last year. and
24:26
remember didn't have they're one of the
24:28
only teams in America that did not have
24:30
player player summer workouts. There's
24:34
100 plus FBS teams and I can promise you
24:38
almost all of them had playerled
24:40
offseason workouts. The Tar Hills did
24:42
not. Why? Because they mismanaged the
24:45
the double transfer portal. They didn't
24:47
have a single quarterback in the summer
24:49
who had gone through spring practice.
24:51
Remember Max Johnson missed spring
24:53
practice because of his injury. Gio
24:54
Lopez didn't arrive in Chapel Hill till
24:56
after spring practice, right?
24:58
>> So, while every other program in America
25:00
virtually, you know, has that postspring
25:03
practice glow, Carolina didn't have
25:05
that. And there were no play Jordan Ship
25:09
told us he puts together roughly two
25:11
player run practices per week where it's
25:13
O line versus Dline over here and then
25:16
it's seven on seven drills, you know,
25:18
the skill players over here and they do
25:20
it a couple times a week and guys have
25:22
chemistry. quarterback to receiver,
25:24
lineman to lineman, etc. All that's part
25:27
of a healthy foundation. Well, Carolina
25:30
didn't have that healthy foundation last
25:31
year. Um they they have at least some of
25:34
that this year and they had multiple
25:37
quarterbacks who went through spring
25:39
practice. Is one or more of them ready
25:41
to play at an above average ACC level? I
25:45
don't know. Billy Edwards Jr. was pretty
25:48
good. Not great. Pretty good in the Big
25:50
10 two years ago. You know, Miles O'Neal
25:52
is a good dual threat guy who was a
25:55
highly regarded high school guy and then
25:57
basically a backup at Texas A&M. Um, the
26:01
freshman is heralded but is coming off a
26:03
serious injury. I I you know, if if we
26:06
all put together one through 17
26:08
quarterback power rankings, we are not
26:11
thinking about the Tarheelss in the
26:13
first 10. And if we put together 1
26:15
through 17 ACC team power rankings, most
26:19
of us are not thinking about the
26:20
Tarheelss as we go 1 through 10.
26:24
Carolina's depth chart and foundation
26:27
doesn't look anything like Miami's,
26:30
SMUs, Louisville's, I would argue even
26:33
NC states, right?
26:35
>> Clemson's and probably a handful of
26:38
others. So, you know, Wake was a good
26:41
example last year. I used them as an
26:43
example earlier to sort of contrast with
26:46
what the Tarheelss failed to do in year
26:48
one under Bill Bich as the Deakons
26:50
thrived in year one under Jake Dickert.
26:53
Uh they did it with really reliable
26:56
defense at Wake last year. A veteran
27:00
quarterback, not a spectacular
27:01
quarterback. If you watched Robbie
27:03
Ashford play, he was no better than an
27:04
average quarterback by ACC standards.
27:06
But he did what the coaches wanted. He
27:08
minimized his mistakes. He let the
27:10
defense and special teams win games.
27:13
That was Jake Dickard's formula. That
27:15
was not NFL draft picks everywhere you
27:17
look. It was competent veteran
27:20
quarterback, healthy offseason culture,
27:23
reliable defense, win your close games.
27:26
Can Carolina follow a script somewhat
27:29
like that to six and six in a bowl game?
27:33
Is that possible? I think it's possible.
27:35
you know, none of us predicted Duke
27:37
versus UVA in the ACC football title
27:39
game last year and that happened, right?
27:41
>> Uh so, who knows? But, you know, it's
27:45
it's always been more about the Jimmies
27:47
and the Joe's than the X's and the O's.
27:49
>> Yeah.
27:49
>> And when I had some Carolina fans that I
27:52
love dearly tell me a year ago at this
27:54
time that the Hills were going to win
27:55
eight, nine or 10 games, I respectfully
27:58
told them they were out of their minds.
28:00
There just were not enough Jimmies and
28:02
Joe's. There just weren't. And you know
28:05
the return from death of N Rockchnney is
28:08
not going to lead that group to a great
28:10
record period. You have to have enough
28:13
[snorts] standout talents and we don't
28:16
know the full answer to that in year two
28:19
under Bill Bich. Abuja Day is a standout
28:22
talent. Ship is a standout talent. Maybe
28:24
one of the running backs emerges as a
28:26
standout talent. Um, but I'll say this,
28:29
among their transfers on the inbound,
28:32
the ones that came from big programs
28:35
were almost entirely backups at their
28:38
previous program. And the guys who
28:40
really were stars or starters at their
28:43
previous program are the ones usually
28:46
the incoming transfers that the Heels
28:47
are asking to kind of take a step up in
28:50
weight class from either the group of
28:52
five or FCS, etc. So, I don't see a lot
28:55
of sure things in that transfer portal.
28:58
Whereas, man, when you look around the
29:00
ACC, [laughter]
29:02
there are some sure things that ACC
29:05
teams signed in the transfer portal,
29:07
including Miami rating Duke for its
29:10
starting quarterback Darien Menson and
29:12
its starting wide receiver, Cooper
29:13
Baret. You just roll out the the red
29:16
carpet and a big bag of money
29:18
>> and you have your starting quarterback
29:19
and your starting wide receiver while
29:21
rating another conference program. I
29:23
don't see the Heels doing that. Uh
29:26
probably because so much of their money
29:27
is going to, you know, Bill Bich and
29:29
Mike Lombardi and some maybe some
29:32
questionable decisions with who they
29:34
gave their other portal money to.
29:36
>> Well, let's stick with that because both
29:38
of you gentlemen were in the ACC kickoff
29:39
and let's put the drama in Chapel Hill
29:41
aside. There's some great storylines in
29:43
the ACC this season. James Franklin
29:45
trying to revive Georgia Tech. Duke
29:47
coming into the season, you said raided
29:48
by Miami and apparently getting no
29:50
respect as the conference champions. A
29:52
lot of great storylines. Is there
29:54
anything flying under the radar that uh
29:56
you kind of people might be looking
29:58
toward that maybe is not front of mind
29:59
for a lot of folks right now?
30:04
>> One thing that's a little bit off the
30:05
beaten trail, I saw Jim Phillips, ACC
30:08
commissioner, mention that ACC TV
30:10
viewership was up 68% from last year to
30:13
this year. I think that's important
30:16
because a lot of fans make false
30:19
assumptions about why the ACC has gone
30:22
from the wealthiest league in America,
30:24
which it was when I covered it in the
30:26
late 80s and most of the 90s and some of
30:28
the early 2000s, to a distant third
30:31
financially behind the SEC and the Big
30:33
10. You can argue about who's a good
30:36
negotiator all you want. You can argue,
30:38
you know, John Swaford, former ACC
30:40
commissioner, didn't negotiate with a
30:41
good enough deal with ESPN or he signed
30:44
too long of a deal, goes all the way
30:45
through 2036.
30:47
All those are are pieces of the pie, but
30:50
the starting point for all TV money
30:53
negotiations. And in terms of conference
30:55
money, football TV money is by far the
30:58
largest number. The ACC simply hasn't
31:01
had enough football viewers to to
31:04
understand why the league has gone from
31:06
for decades the wealthiest league to a
31:09
distant third. It it starts with it's
31:12
not been as compelling a football
31:13
product and not nearly as many millions
31:16
of people watch ACC versus ACC football
31:19
games as watch when two Big 10 teams get
31:22
together or two SEC teams get together.
31:24
That's the starting point. So, when he
31:26
can say year-over-year the ACC had a
31:28
bigger jump, 68% than any of the other
31:31
three power leagues, that's important.
31:33
They don't get to renegotiate their ESPN
31:36
deal, unfortunately. That still goes all
31:38
the way through 2036. So, it's still
31:41
going to be a distant third financially,
31:43
but if the ACC wants to eventually, and
31:47
I mean a decade from now, be more like
31:50
the SEC in the Big 10 financially, it
31:52
has to improve his football product. It
31:54
has to win more national championships.
31:56
It has to have more top 25 programs. It
31:58
has to send more players to the NFL. It
32:01
has to invest more in good coaches and
32:03
and recruiting and budgets and all that
32:05
stuff because football is the tail that
32:07
wags the dog in modern college
32:08
athletics. And the ACC football product
32:11
simply has not been as good. Um, so I
32:14
agree there are other great storylines.
32:15
Can Miami be a national contender again?
32:17
Can either SMU or Louisville, you know,
32:21
relative newcomers to the ACC? Can Can
32:23
they be in the ACC title game? I don't I
32:26
wouldn't laugh off the possibility.
32:28
Could Dave Doran have the best season of
32:30
his 14 years at NC State? I don't think
32:32
that's impossible. Will Davos Sweeney
32:35
bounce back?
32:36
>> The guy has his fingerprints on one of
32:37
the greatest runs in college football
32:39
history at Clemson. You look at his
32:41
numbers. His average postseason pole
32:43
finish over six years was third. His
32:48
average finish was third.
32:49
>> Wow. and that included two national
32:51
titles and all six ACC titles over a
32:54
six-year period. That's crazy. So,
32:55
obviously, the Tigers have come back to
32:57
earth from that crazy run, but they've
33:00
still won two of the last four ACC
33:01
titles in football. So, how far back do
33:04
they bounce from last year's, you know,
33:07
in Death Valley, seven wins is an
33:09
embarrassment. Um, we have new coaches,
33:12
right, at places like Cal and Stanford.
33:16
Um, so there's a there's a lot can Duke
33:18
what did the Devils do after their first
33:20
ACC football title since 1989?
33:24
I mean, there's no shortage of fun
33:26
storylines, but it was nice to see some
33:28
good news for ACC football on the
33:30
viewership side because again, man,
33:33
nothing is more central to the future of
33:35
the league than that.
33:36
>> David Glenn, we're going to wrap up
33:38
here. I know I mentioned the the column
33:39
you have at chapelboro.com, obviously
33:41
North Carolina Sports Network. Subscribe
33:43
to that right now on YouTube. you want
33:44
to plug your socials on the way out?
33:48
>> Yeah, sure. Thank you, uh, Brit. It's
33:51
VNC Sportsnet is our social handle for
33:54
the most part. I still have David Glenn
33:57
Show on Twitter, and then our website
34:00
kind of takes you anywhere you want to
34:02
visit. We have the David Glenn Show in
34:04
audio form, the David Glenn Show in
34:05
video form. If you go to the website
34:08
ncportsnetwork.com,
34:10
we literally have the word watch, that
34:12
takes you to that YouTube channel, the
34:13
word listen, which takes you to all all
34:15
of our ondemand audio, not just my show,
34:17
but a whole cast of characters, and we
34:20
have the word read if you want to check
34:22
out the articles at ncportsnetwork.com.
34:24
So, we're still having fun with many of
34:26
the same topics and and same guests that
34:29
I've had, you know, on AMFM radio or in
34:32
other u variations of my career over 40
34:35
years. So, uh, we're really thankful for
34:37
people who visit the website, and we're
34:40
incredibly thankful to those who have
34:42
helped us to get to almost 75,000
34:45
YouTube subscribers. That puts us in the
34:47
98th percentile in the world. Not in
34:50
views, not in views. That would be nice.
34:53
Taylor Swift does not have to worry
34:55
about our views yet. Uh, but 98th
34:58
percentile in terms of YouTube
35:00
subscribers, that's that's an insane
35:02
number according to everybody I know,
35:05
especially given that the North Carolina
35:06
Sports Network is only three years old
35:08
at this point. So, thanks for that
35:10
opportunity and we appreciate those who
35:12
follow us, read, listen, watch,
35:15
regardless of which branch of our
35:17
platforms they choose to visit. Well,
35:19
>> thank you, David. We'll see you next
35:20
time on the Tarhill Tribion Podcast. For
35:22
all things Carolina, it's
35:23
tarheltion.com.
35:27
All right. Thanks, Dave.
35:29
>> Thank you, guys. Good to be with you.
#Sports