NBA Legend Isiah Thomas on Chris Paul Controversy, Bill Russell’s Legacy & Ranks Best Champions

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Wow, man. That voice right there. What
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an amazing Hall of Fame speech.
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Rightfully so.
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Cuz it's been an amazing life that this
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man has curated for himself.
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I've been watching him since the '80s
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have to be.
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Right.
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And growing up in Oakland, California,
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man, it was something about his spirit
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that really
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really appealed to me. Keep the applause
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going, please.
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It's a pleasure and an honor to have the
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two-time NBA champion here. Keep Keep
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the applause going right now. The NBA
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Finals MVP, 12-time NBA All-Star. Keep
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the applause going, ladies and
0:37
gentlemen.
0:39
The NBA The 12-time NBA All-Star was
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named to the NBA's 50th and 75th
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anniversary teams. Keep the applause
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going.
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But what appealed to me most is that
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even though I saw him on these big
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stages,
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I related to him.
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I think watching him play the game of
1:00
basketball was like a metaphor for life.
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He wasn't the biggest man on the court
1:06
ever.
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Uh he probably wasn't the highest-paid
1:11
player on the court ever.
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He was probably someone that a lot of
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people doubted, didn't think that he'll
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be able to accomplish the things he's
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done ever, and go as far as he's gone
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ever.
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When you mention his name now, you got
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to mention his name amongst the elite
1:27
greats of all time when it comes to
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basketball altogether, but he
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represented the hood to us.
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When we used to get out on that
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basketball court playing on that
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concrete, there was certain names that
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we would yell out. WHO ARE YOU? ISAIAH!
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DID YOU MAKE the shot, though?
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Absolutely, every time. ZEKE!
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I MEAN, YOU SHOT IT, BUT DID YOU MAKE
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IT?
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WELL, that didn't matter, BUT I HAD
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HE DIDN'T MAKE EVERY SHOT.
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BUT I WANT TO welcome him. His son has
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graced our airways plenty of times but I
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we always ask about his dad but I want
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to welcome you um to this show for all
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that you do and all that you represent.
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Especially what you represent for the
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players, what you represent for the game
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of basketball, but outside of the court
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what you represent.
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Um I don't know if we ever know how many
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people we inspire when we're in the
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public eye when we were so-called
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celebrities. Um but you gave a lot of
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people hope and you gave a lot of people
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fight and by your success you made a lot
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of people believe that they can achieve
2:29
success. Please welcome Isiah Thomas.
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Thank you.
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Thank you.
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Isiah Lord Thomas.
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The third.
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The third.
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Yes.
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The third.
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Thank you.
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You're the youngest out of how many
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kids?
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Uh nine.
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Uh
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Wow.
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Six brothers, two sisters. I'm the
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seventh son of the seventh son.
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You're the seventh son.
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Yes.
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Is that how you got tough? Like fighting
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for food?
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Fighting for food every day and and then
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uh growing up
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growing up on the west side of Chicago.
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Yeah.
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Um
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you know
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my mom always you know we didn't have a
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lot of clothes we didn't have a lot of
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food so it was always the hand-me-downs
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right? So and my brother's clothes were
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too big for me.
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Mhm.
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So I had to wear my sister's clothes
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right? So I had to button up you know
3:23
the blouse on the left-hand side. Wear
3:25
her shoes and I was like mom I can't go
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to school like this. She was like no
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you're going to school just like that.
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So every day I went to school I HAD TO
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FIGHT.
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WOW.
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YEAH SO I
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You was wearing your sister's blouses to
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school.
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my eighth my eighth grade picture
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I got on my sister's I got on her blazer
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and I got on her her hooded flowered you
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know blouse in the back you know and you
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know, those are the clothes that I had,
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you know, and that was because my sister
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was my size, so I fit her clothes. And
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all my brother's clothes and shoes, they
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were too big.
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Mhm.
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Yeah, I couldn't wear them.
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You was wearing your sister's clothes?
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And and her gym shoes.
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And her
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Damn, really?
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Yeah. Yeah.
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Cuz she ball?
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No, she was actually she was a
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cheerleader.
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Okay.
4:17
Uh and you know, so all my brothers were
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balling. I mean, they they could really
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play. My oldest brother, Lord Henry, uh
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he was
4:26
he he was really good. And and Leon,
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shout out to Leon,
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Uh-huh.
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did such a excellent job in the in in
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the Mary Thomas story, in my mother's
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story,
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Yeah.
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playing my older brother. And to this
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day when I see Leon, I still look at him
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as like, you know, a brother, and I
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still feel that that spirit
4:45
Uh-huh.
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that my older brother, Lord Henry, had.
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And true story about my older brother,
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Lord Henry.
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Um he got turned out in in high school,
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you know, he was he was a heroin addict.
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Okay.
4:57
And
4:57
Oh, You got turned out in high
4:59
school.
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Yeah. Yeah. And you know, he he was on
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heroin for about, you know, 30 35 years.
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And you know, only 1% of heroin addicts
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kick.
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And he finally kicked at the end,
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went back to college,
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graduated from college,
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and I never forget um
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we uh he was graduating
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uh and we sent a bus on the west side of
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Chicago. Now, the bus and all our
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friends, right, that we grew up with,
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you know, we had the bus, you know, meet
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on Jackson and Homan, Fifth Avenue and
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Jackson
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at 3:00 a.m. in the morning, right? And
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at 3:00 a.m. in the morning,
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you know, it's it's a little rough over
5:43
there, right? So, I
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the bus driver I I never forget he was
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calling me up. He's like,
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"Uh Mr. Thomas, are you Are you sure I'm
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in the right location?"
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I'm like, "Yeah, you you're in the right
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spot." And I said, you know, "Just just
5:58
be nice to the people who are coming
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on." So, all his neighborhood, you know,
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guys that he had grew up with, all of
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people in the neighborhood got on the
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bus.
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I had them come down to Detroit. They
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drive about 4 5 hours down to Detroit.
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Get there and as he's walking across the
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stage, he was graduating from
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uh Phoenix College, Ford Field in
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Detroit.
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As he's walking across the stage,
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everybody, "Lord Henry! Lord Henry!"
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Man, that dude broke down, start crying
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right on the stage. That was a big
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moment in our family. And sorry to go
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off on that story.
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But that's how we grew up, you know.
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You have champions in your family.
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passed away, so shout out to Lord Henry
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upstairs. We're still thinking about
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him.
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Lord Henry, Lord Henry. Nah, man, that's
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to me, like, even hearing his story
6:53
is what made you. Certain people, you
6:55
Magic, it was certain people that were
6:56
so relatable to us. You you you made you
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made us believe we could do anything we
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set our minds to, you know. So, even
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hearing the adversity that your family
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faced, you know, to me is a part of all
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of our stories, right?
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To to some extent, right? At that time,
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were people When did you discover
7:16
basketball? Like, were at that time were
7:18
people telling you you
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Were they doubting you then?
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Growing up on the west side of Chicago,
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like, I was born in '61.
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So,
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here's my first 10 years of life.
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Um '63, Kennedy is assassinated.
7:34
'65, Malcolm X is assassinated.
7:38
'66 '67,
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Kennedy assassinated
7:43
King assassinated
7:45
And you from Oakland?
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Mhm.
7:47
Uh Black Panther Party was uh in my
7:50
community.
7:51
Um
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I was one of the kids that got the free
7:54
breakfast.
7:55
Mhm.
7:56
My mom worked with Fred Hampton.
7:58
Mhm.
7:58
69 Fred Hampton's murdered.
8:02
Three riots in my neighborhood.
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They had a shoot to kill order
8:08
in my neighborhood, Chicago West Side.
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Black Panthers, Vice Lords, J. Edgar
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Hoover
8:15
First time a weapon was pulled on me,
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the National Guard pulled up off the
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Eisenhower Expressway.
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I was living on Congress and Home and
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3340 West Congress.
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And pulled up out pulled up the the the
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tank. Back then we called it the army
8:32
tank.
8:32
Mhm.
8:33
The army tank pulled up
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pointed the barrel right at our house.
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And we had
8:39
you couldn't be outside.
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You know uh we had a curfew at 6:00.
8:45
So everybody had to be off the streets
8:47
by 6:00. So when you talk about when's
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the first time
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I discovered got playing basketball and
8:53
not my first 10 years of life, I wasn't
8:56
even thinking about
8:57
Yeah.
8:57
basketball like that.
8:59
Mhm.
8:59
You know, in terms of you know, playing
9:01
in the NBA and all that. The NBA wasn't
9:04
even on television at that time.
9:05
Mhm.
9:06
Uh and I know that's hard to imagine,
9:08
right?
9:09
Right.
9:10
But know, um you know, that
9:12
Mhm.
9:13
How about this? That famous game they
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talk about that Magic Johnson played in
9:17
where he was the MVP, 42 points and all
9:19
that. That game was tape delayed.
9:23
That was tape delayed?
9:24
That game was tape delayed.
9:26
That sounds bonkers in 2023.
9:29
Right? And and so
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you know, I didn't grow up with this NBA
9:33
basketball dream. I grew up um you know,
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wanting to be,
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you know, an activist fighting in civil
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rights. My mom, um,
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my dad, we we went to all the, you know,
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the civil rights, um, you know, marches.
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And, you know,
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activism is part of, you know, that's
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of who you are.
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Yeah, that's the family business. And,
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uh,
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you know, during that time, again, on
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the west side of Chicago,
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you had, um,
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you know, Noble Drew Ali,
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uh,
10:06
you had, uh, you know, Nation of Islam,
10:09
you had the Black Stone Rangers, El
10:11
Rukns,
10:12
Mhm.
10:13
uh, Black Panther Party. So, that's
10:16
that's kind of like, you know, my my DNA
10:18
in terms of how I grew up and what we
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were fighting for.
10:22
Mhm.
10:22
We were fighting for, you know,
10:24
nationality,
10:25
birth rights, and
10:28
and believe it or not, not to be called
10:31
colored or negro.
10:33
Yeah.
10:34
Wow.
10:35
times?
10:35
Remember those times,
10:37
Don't call me colored or negro.
10:38
Yeah, yeah, yeah. As a matter of fact, I
10:40
had negro on my birth certificate.
10:43
Uh-huh.
10:44
And
10:44
I got negro on my birth certificate.
10:46
Well, back then, I had they was they was
10:49
they told everybody that you had to go
10:51
change your birth certificate, um,
10:54
because uh,
10:55
negro,
10:57
uh,
10:58
you know, if you were called negro, if
10:59
that was on your birth certificate, then
11:02
technically, you wasn't a citizen.
11:04
Yeah.
11:05
Yeah.
11:06
Can you break down the knowledge behind
11:08
behind that? Like, why wouldn't you be a
11:09
citizen citizen?
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Uh, because in in the United States,
11:14
uh, you know, of America, right? You,
11:17
when you talk about nationality, birth
11:19
right, citizenship, uh, we're still
11:23
fighting for voting rights.
11:25
Mhm.
11:25
And we were in in this country,
11:29
uh, we were said to be not human.
11:33
So, when they took us out of our
11:34
nationality, they took you out of your
11:36
humanness and your birthright.
11:38
Mhm.
11:39
Right? And you know, the first march
11:41
that that happened in in Memphis with
11:43
the um
11:44
um with the with the garbage workers,
11:48
right? In Memphis, right?
11:50
The sign that they had that they said,
11:52
"I am a man." Right? You didn't want to
11:55
be dehumanized
11:56
and you didn't want to be taken out of
11:58
your humanness and you didn't want to be
12:01
taken out of the human race. There
12:04
really was only one race and it was
12:05
called the human race.
12:06
race, yeah.
12:07
Right? And then they put us into all
12:09
these different racial categories and in
12:12
these racial categories, you lose your
12:16
human
12:17
ness in terms of being recognized as a
12:20
man. So, negro came in
12:23
to signify that you were second-class
12:26
citizen in the United States, not first
12:29
class. And what first class means is
12:32
that uh classified as white,
12:36
you don't have to fight for
12:38
voting rights,
12:40
civil rights,
12:42
Mhm.
12:42
or equal rights.
12:44
Mhm.
12:45
We classified as black in America,
12:48
you're fighting for civil rights, equal
12:50
rights, voting rights. So, there's a
12:52
there's a there's a second tier that
12:54
we've always been fighting for to try to
12:57
be recognized as equal and as human in
13:00
this space.
13:01
Mhm.
13:02
So,
13:03
that's the that was the west side of
13:05
Chicago.
13:05
That's and that's how Isiah Thomas grew
13:07
up. I love this, man.
13:09
Wow.
13:11
Deep.
13:11
Come on, man.
13:13
I love this. I I I
13:15
I
13:16
You brought up Magic. Um
13:21
Magic Johnson, can you talk to us about
13:23
your friendship with him? I know you
13:24
guys going through your ups and downs.
13:27
I mean, how how lucky was I
13:30
to come into the NBA and I just talked
13:31
to you about his
13:33
42-point game.
13:34
Yeah. That was his That was his rookie
13:37
year. He's MVP. That Now, I come in
13:40
there right behind him.
13:43
And this is the guy that
13:45
who says, "Hey, man, you
13:48
you with me."
13:49
Mhm.
13:49
Right? And I'm like, "Damn, I just saw
13:51
this dude on TV like, you know,
13:54
he got the MVP trophy." And
13:56
and now I get him as a not only as a
13:59
friend, but also as a mentor to walk
14:01
through the NBA.
14:03
Mhm.
14:04
Mark Aguirre and I
14:06
coming from Chicago,
14:08
I'm going to Detroit, he's from Lansing.
14:11
And now
14:13
I'm getting all the good lessons from
14:15
him and George Gervin.
14:16
Dr. J about winning. Now, you got to
14:18
remember, I'm I'm 19, right? I
14:22
You know, I'm poorer than poor. I
14:24
I don't know nothing in in this dude
14:26
riding up in a in a Mercedes-Benz.
14:29
Mhm.
14:30
Just like the series?
14:31
Yeah. Talking about, you know, "Hey, you
14:33
know,
14:34
come on in, man, you know, we we going
14:36
to go hoop." And but the lessons I
14:39
learned about winning in the NBA.
14:42
It's a lot of people that
14:44
at you know, I've won at every level.
14:47
Uh high school, college, NBA.
14:50
And it takes a lot to win and you just
14:53
don't Everybody talks about winning.
14:56
But there's a pathway, there's a work
14:59
work ethic, and then there's a knowledge
15:01
base that you have to acquire.
15:03
And what I was able to acquire at that
15:06
time
15:07
from Magic and the Los Angeles Lakers.
15:10
And then being friends at that time with
15:12
Kevin McHale
15:13
Mhm.
15:14
and the Boston Celtics.
15:15
Yeah.
15:15
So, I'm getting knowledge from Cedric
15:18
Maxwell,
15:20
you know,
15:21
Legends.
15:21
Dennis
15:23
Magic Johnson. And and I'm at If you go
15:26
back and you look, I'm at every
15:27
Lakers-Celtics series.
15:30
That was the Harvard and the Yales in
15:33
terms of knowledge base when you talk
15:36
about, you know, academia and you
15:38
compare it to basketball, that's where
15:40
you went to study.
15:42
So, studying those two teams and then
15:45
having Magic as a friend, you know, it
15:47
definitely helped me from a knowledge
15:49
standpoint and I was
15:51
extremely lucky to have him. Yeah. Now,
15:55
then once you acquire the knowledge, you
15:58
know,
15:58
once the
16:01
once the student challenges the master,
16:06
the master ain't too happy about that.
16:11
And then when the student beats the
16:13
master, yeah, you know, the master
16:15
normally say lesson learned.
16:18
But in sport, you know, it's like, YEAH,
16:20
ALL RIGHT.
16:24
YEAH, ALL RIGHT.
16:25
YEAH.
16:25
YOU GOT TO LOVE IT, RIGHT?
16:27
You got to love it.
16:28
So.
16:28
Um you talk about the Celtics
16:31
and when you think of the Celtics, a lot
16:34
of people think of Larry Bird, but
16:36
I recall you saying your parents watched
16:39
the Celtics for a different reason,
16:41
right?
16:41
Absolutely.
16:43
Again,
16:44
you got to remember in my household,
16:48
all that was talked about was education
16:52
and
16:53
and understanding the Constitution
16:56
and the rules of this United States of
16:58
America that we were living in in junior
17:00
high, you have to act and be. And this
17:02
is how you navigate.
17:04
I remember 1974, I'm on my way to
17:07
school. And this is when they first
17:09
started
17:11
bussing and and integrating the buses,
17:13
right?
17:15
And and for those who don't know, uh
17:18
that mean busting was they take you out
17:20
of your neighborhood to the white
17:22
schools because the white schools had
17:24
all of the
17:25
resources
17:27
So, 1974, I'm getting ready to walk out
17:30
the door. My mom grabbed me by the
17:31
collar. She said, "Junior, sit down." I
17:33
said, "Mama, I'll be late for school."
17:34
She goes, "No, you got to watch this."
17:37
And I never forget and it and it still,
17:40
you know,
17:41
singed in my in my brain. It was a white
17:44
woman that came on.
17:46
And
17:47
we was watching uh the CBS news.
17:50
Mhm.
17:51
And
17:53
they were in Boston.
17:55
And she's and she was saying on the
17:57
news, and you may be able to even go
17:59
back and find the clip on YouTube. She
18:01
said, "I would never let my kids
18:04
go to school
18:06
with these ends." And she used the
18:08
N-word.
18:09
And
18:11
and I was like, "Mama, I I got to go to
18:13
school." And and I never forget, she
18:15
said, "This is why we root
18:19
for Bill Russell
18:20
and the Boston Celtics."
18:22
So, in our household, right?
18:25
Bill Russell and the Boston Celtics and
18:28
the St. Louis Cardinals with Bob Gibson.
18:31
Yeah.
18:32
That's who that's who and and, you know,
18:34
and we had books on Paul Robeson, right?
18:37
And for those who don't know about Paul
18:38
Robeson, over at Rutgers University, go
18:41
go go do some research there and find
18:44
out who that man was
18:45
Mhm.
18:46
who they don't talk about enough.
18:48
Mhm.
18:48
Bill Russell,
18:50
uh you know, we we hear a lot of these
18:51
conversations, you know, we got this
18:53
banter that's all over the sports
18:54
networks, man, who's the greatest and
18:56
all these the greatest teams, the
18:58
greatest player. Unless you're a
19:00
professional, a lot of folks don't they
19:02
just don't know Bill Russell's impact.
19:06
They they don't know it, don't
19:08
understand it, and um
19:11
and and
19:13
and really don't understand how hard it
19:15
is to win.
19:16
Mhm.
19:17
I'm talking about championships. And
19:19
what Bill Russell did
19:22
in the '60s
19:23
Yeah.
19:24
Listen to me when I when I say this
19:26
because some of you not old enough to
19:28
understand how difficult life was
19:32
for a classified black man
19:35
in the '40s, '50s, and '60s.
19:38
Mhm.
19:39
And Bill Russell as a teenager
19:43
can you imagine what his life was like
19:45
as a teenager
19:47
in the '50s. Now, he gets to the '60s
19:49
and he wins championships.
19:51
But the way he probably was treated as a
19:53
teenager
19:54
Yeah.
19:54
as a tall black man in America, right?
19:58
And still to, you know, have the dignity
20:01
that he had.
20:02
So,
20:03
as I said, I
20:05
as when I started
20:07
I rattled off all those murders that
20:09
happened in the '60s.
20:11
Mhm.
20:13
Bill Russell
20:16
and Red Auerbach
20:18
and the Boston Celtics
20:20
in 1966
20:22
or '67, I'm not sure what date it was.
20:27
But they said Bill Russell
20:30
is the player-coach
20:33
Mhm.
20:34
for the Boston Celtics.
20:36
Yeah.
20:36
And they won the championship.
20:38
Yeah. Yeah.
20:41
Come on, man.
20:42
You don't hear him.
20:43
Come on, man. Come on. Come on.
20:44
He He was the player-coach.
20:46
Coach.
20:47
And won the championship.
20:50
While being treated and mistreated
20:53
outside of the arena
20:55
in Boston. I mean, and and and you got
20:58
to give the Boston Celtics organization
21:01
their props.
21:02
Because Red Auerbach, right?
21:05
God rest his soul.
21:07
Stood up during that period of time
21:10
as a classified white male Caucasian
21:13
Mhm.
21:14
and said,
21:16
"This brother here,
21:18
I'm getting ready to show y'all America,
21:21
Boston,
21:23
what
21:25
you know, what we're all about as a
21:27
Celtics organization."
21:28
Yeah.
21:29
Mad respect for the Celtics
21:30
organization.
21:30
Come on, man. Okay, that's the only
21:32
Wow.
21:33
I was trying to find a way to respect
21:34
him. You just scared me once.
21:38
So, let let me ask you your thoughts on
21:39
this, too. And I'm I'm sure And we going
21:41
to get to why you why you're here. It's
21:43
a exciting thing you're doing with
21:45
Mitchell & Ness. This is a company that
21:47
I've been
21:48
uh
21:50
uh supporting since damn
21:53
since the early millennium. I used to
21:55
bring MTV out to Mitchell & Ness, and
21:57
we'd do coverage of them.
21:59
Um I think it was Dennis Rodman who
22:02
recently said that if Larry Bird played
22:05
today, he'll probably
22:07
he'll have to play over in the European
22:08
league, right? And because of the way
22:11
the game is in 2023. I remember you I
22:14
think you joked about it, but I thought
22:16
it was truth. You said if Larry Bird was
22:19
uh a
22:20
black, he'd just be another black player
22:22
back in the day or something.
22:24
Here's what I'm not going to do today
22:26
because you do have to learn from your
22:28
experiences.
22:29
Okay, there you go. Okay.
22:31
I'm not going to joke about it.
22:32
Okay.
22:33
I ain't going to say nothing about it.
22:34
The only thing I'm going to say is,
22:35
"Hey, that's what Rodman said."
22:37
The Okay. There you go. That's it?
22:40
Can't be mad at that.
22:41
But hey, I I speak for myself.
22:43
Okay.
22:44
Right? I don't speak for nobody else.
22:47
As the captain of the Detroit Pistons
22:49
during that time,
22:51
my job was to
22:53
look out and take care.
22:55
Mhm.
22:55
Um
22:57
now
22:59
I speak for myself.
23:00
Mhm.
23:01
I'm not acting as the captain
23:03
of the
23:04
Detroit Pistons.
23:07
My personal opinion on Larry Bird
23:09
Mhm.
23:11
If Larry Bird was playing today,
23:16
he would still be the MVP of the league
23:20
and his team would still be winning
23:22
championships.
23:24
Now, why do I say that?
23:26
Because we just watched
23:28
the Joker
23:29
Mhm.
23:30
who is very similar to Larry Bird
23:34
take his Denver Nuggets team and win the
23:37
championship.
23:38
So, if I look at these two players and
23:41
and and if I'm saying they're similar,
23:44
then Bird
23:46
would probably win two or three
23:47
championships in this era also.
23:50
era right now.
23:51
Yeah.
23:52
Ooh, and you played him, so you know,
23:53
right?
23:54
Oh, he you know, out of all the players
23:56
we played against,
23:59
when Larry Bird caught the basketball,
24:02
we were most afraid of him.
24:05
And and and and and it's hard for young
24:07
people to understand because those of us
24:09
who
24:10
who was around in the '80s, who really
24:13
got to see him in the Boston Celtics
24:16
play,
24:17
the dude he just didn't miss. And when
24:19
he And when he missed, you were shocked
24:21
that he missed.
24:22
Yeah.
24:23
As I As I said before, like my
24:25
mother-in-law my mother-in-law named his
24:28
jump shot silent death.
24:31
Cuz when he shot it, it just looked like
24:33
it just stayed in the air and just
24:35
rolled and rolled and
24:37
No, he was
24:40
he
24:42
And And if you go back and you look at
24:43
the '80s, right?
24:45
Yeah.
24:46
Everybody shot like this.
24:48
That's true. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
24:51
EVERYBODY WAS IMITATING HIM. RIGHT, COME
24:53
ON, MAN. TALK to me now. Talk to me now.
24:55
Everybody
24:57
imitating his shot just like that,
25:00
right? You know, that's
25:01
That's true.
25:01
No, he was the dude.
25:03
He was the dude.
25:03
33 in green, he was the dude.
25:05
Wow, Larry Bird. When you look at
25:07
Stephen Curry's shot.
25:09
Oh, pretty.
25:10
Right? Yo, Isaiah, why won't they give
25:13
Stephen Curry his props though, man?
25:16
What is that about? He got rings, you
25:18
know, I felt like the Golden State
25:21
Warriors wasn't a team of
25:24
uh elite players when they assembled
25:26
them, you know, um and they grew, they
25:29
developed, they found their rhythm, and
25:31
but why won't people give them his
25:33
props?
25:33
Pe- people
25:35
for whatever reason in sport, people
25:37
want to hate on the small guy.
25:40
Yeah.
25:41
Right? And
25:42
and in sport, I'm I mean, real talk,
25:46
normally the bigger players dominate,
25:48
you know, when you when you
25:50
when you blessed with the genetic gift
25:53
of size,
25:55
weight, right? Where you
25:57
6'8, 6'9, and you know, can jump and do
26:01
you know, that's a genetic gift that
26:03
we small guys don't have. So,
26:06
Steph Curry, myself,
26:09
you know,
26:10
you you kind of look at
26:12
at Stephen and you go,
26:15
"Well, I I can do what he does."
26:17
Mhm.
26:18
But that's the beauty of it.
26:20
Yeah.
26:21
To me, that's that's the inspiration
26:23
Mhm.
26:24
when small guys like us
26:27
can do it against the genetic freaks.
26:30
Mhm.
26:30
And then smaller players and people,
26:33
well, I would say people of normal size
26:36
can say, "Well,
26:38
I don't have to have a 52-in vertical. I
26:42
don't have to be 6'9.
26:44
If I if I work on my handle and I can
26:47
shoot it, I got a chance to play." And
26:49
that's It's beauty of the game. The
26:51
fundamentals, if you master the
26:52
fundamentals
26:53
Mhm.
26:54
it it neutralizes and equalizes size,
26:57
weight, height.
26:59
And Steph doesn't get enough credit
27:03
I would say by the
27:05
the people outside of the sport.
27:07
Mhm.
27:07
But the people inside of the sport
27:10
Steph Curry walk in the room
27:12
we all we all bowing. We taking a knee
27:15
like, "Hey, you know this."
27:16
Yeah.
27:17
And there's only certain people you do
27:18
that I don't do that for everybody.
27:20
Who you do that for?
27:22
Okay, so we talked about Bill Russell.
27:24
Bill Russell, yeah.
27:25
You know, Magic, Bird, Dr. J.
27:29
You know, if Jordan walked in, I would
27:30
give I would give him his props, his
27:32
respect. Uh
27:34
a lot of the the older players
27:36
that you may not know like a Alex
27:38
English.
27:39
You know, Spencer Haywood. You know,
27:42
when them guys walk into the room, it's
27:44
it's like
27:45
hey, you know, step back.
27:46
Yeah.
27:47
And
27:49
the
27:49
the biggest one, right, who gets the
27:52
utmost respect from me and everybody
27:54
else
27:56
is when Kareem Abdul-Jabbar walk in that
27:58
door
27:59
hey man
28:00
we taking a knee.
28:01
You taking a knee to Kareem?
28:02
bowing. We we taking a knee.
28:05
Wow.
28:05
We kissing the ring, man.
28:07
Give it up for Kareem.
28:08
Hey, Kareem is the dude.
28:10
Yo, Heather has Heather has a Heather
28:11
has a a Kareem story, but he he didn't
28:14
get
28:14
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar was mean when he
28:16
came up to
28:16
autograph?
28:18
The picture. I didn't ask for the
28:20
autograph. See,
28:21
I am not by myself, so I call him
28:22
Kareem. I call him Kareem Abdul-Jabbar.
28:25
He mean as hell. He a picture. DB was
28:28
with me in the hallway like, "No. No."
28:30
He said no twice. Like, "Bro, why you so
28:33
mean?"
28:33
In a minute.
28:34
Yo.
28:36
It it's like you know you when you come
28:39
outside, PEOPLE ARE GOING TO STOP YOU.
28:41
EVEN IF you didn't play basketball,
28:43
you're a giant, like you said. He was
28:45
like, "No." Twice. I was like, "Man,
28:49
F K me." I was about I had a chance to
28:51
him. So, and then I found out he his
28:53
family lived downstairs from my
28:54
grandmother.
28:55
And just as nice.
28:57
The family was really nice.
29:00
I DON'T KNOW WHERE he came from, but I
29:02
was going to ask you while you were
29:03
naming these names. Um I think someone
29:06
who's been able to like overcome a lot
29:08
to who's respected in and outside the
29:10
sport and I'll guess he would be
29:11
considered a smaller size um is Allen
29:14
Iverson.
29:15
Yes.
29:15
AI. He has the utmost respect and
29:17
rightfully so. What do you think it is
29:19
about AI and his game or maybe his
29:22
impact on the game where he gets it
29:24
where as Suede to Suede's point maybe a
29:26
Stephen Curry does not the same way cuz
29:29
my gosh he's so beloved, Allen Iverson
29:32
and rightfully so.
29:33
No, I'm I'm again I'm I'm I'm going to
29:35
put Steph in there.
29:37
Right. No, for sure. For sure.
29:39
Steph is Steph is loved. Um
29:43
Now, AI you know, there there there
29:44
there there there people who
29:47
who just had that thing, right? And
29:50
and I used to tell people this all the
29:52
time.
29:55
Two 6'9 dudes walk in the room. One
29:57
Magic Johnson and the other one is
30:00
Pippen.
30:01
So.
30:01
No, not Pippen. He He He get love. But
30:04
Magic Johnson walk into a room with with
30:06
I'm just going to make up a name, Frank
30:08
Smith.
30:08
Okay.
30:09
And they both 6'9, both play in the NBA,
30:12
so forth and so on.
30:14
But one of them just got that thing,
30:16
man.
30:17
That it factor.
30:18
Right? Yeah.
30:19
And that's AI. AI walk into a room and
30:23
it's like
30:25
AI I I see y'all other little guys, but
30:27
let me let me get to that one.
30:29
Facts.
30:30
He just got whatever it is and you don't
30:32
know what it is, right? But but he's got
30:35
it.
30:36
it.
30:36
And and when he played
30:39
you just wanted to watch him. Some some
30:41
guys they put on a uniform and they can
30:43
be on the team. You know.
30:45
Yeah.
30:46
Then some guys put on a uniform
30:48
and then you go, "Wait a minute. Who is
30:50
that?"
30:51
And your eyes just gravitate to that
30:53
person.
30:55
Whether AI was playing football or
30:57
basketball, you know, he was that dude.
31:00
He was that dude. Allen Iverson, man. We
31:02
got Isiah Thomas here with us. Man, we
31:05
going to Man, you going to have to
31:06
leave. You going to have to You going to
31:07
have to get up out that seat cuz we
31:09
ain't going to let you leave.
31:10
You got it.
31:11
I'm here for a minute.
31:13
Y'all Y'all Y'all was late so I I
31:15
Uh-uh. Come on, man.
31:16
Yeah.
31:16
I WAS THERE. YOU SAW ME.
31:18
YEAH. YEAH. YOU'RE RIGHT. RIGHT. I was
31:20
sitting out there, right? I was sitting
31:21
out there waiting patiently, you know.
31:23
And my mind said that. I was like,
31:25
"Wait. That's Isiah Thomas just sitting
31:27
out here with all these people just
31:28
chilling in chilling in the corner." I
31:30
was like, "Wow. Okay."
31:31
Yeah. You know, I You know, and I
31:33
Low-key.
31:33
Nah. I just you know, I
31:35
just waiting till you know,
31:38
Now that I'm here,
31:43
I love it, man. Isiah Thomas is here,
31:44
man. When you talk about um
31:47
Bill Russell and you talk about your
31:49
upbringing, which I can relate to
31:51
growing up in Oakland.
31:52
We used to go to the um the people
31:55
thought the soup kitchens were really a
31:57
uh
31:58
soup kitchen.
31:59
You know, but it'd be people's houses.
32:01
Yeah.
32:01
Sometimes when you was passing out food,
32:03
my mother being from Oakland, my aunts
32:05
and uncles came up in that movement. And
32:07
so, I recall that. So, when I came up
32:10
into the game uh it was hip-hop, you
32:13
know, um in the '80s
32:15
and then got into the music business,
32:18
you know, I came in with that same frame
32:20
of mind. So, the first show my partner
32:23
King Tech and I made on the radio was
32:24
called the Wake Up Show.
32:26
Mhm.
32:26
But it was cold.
32:28
You know, people thought it was late
32:29
night, so they thought, "Man, oh, wake
32:31
up. The show is on."
32:32
Yeah.
32:32
But it meant wake up your consciousness.
32:34
Yes.
32:35
You know what I mean?
32:37
Come on, we play that song every
32:39
morning.
32:40
No more Wake up everybody.
32:44
We play that every morning.
32:46
Right? It's just a kind of trigger that
32:48
frequency for folks. So when you get to
32:50
these platforms, you got a decision to
32:52
make.
32:53
How you want to utilize them?
32:55
What you want to do with them? Right?
32:57
We choose to
32:59
offer information and opportunity and
33:02
inspire and fire encouragement and
33:04
courage
33:06
You with basketball also utilize that
33:08
platform for awareness, for activism,
33:11
the same thing, similar ways Muhammad
33:13
Ali, Jim Brown, and so on and so forth.
33:15
When I look at
33:17
LeBron James and
33:20
and I look at the Carmelo Anthony's and
33:22
the Chris Paul's and all of these guys
33:24
have done the same thing. What do you
33:26
think when you see them wearing I can't
33:28
breathe shirts or really standing up for
33:30
their rights as players and us as
33:32
people? So excited and loved it.
33:36
This generation of player
33:40
brought voice back to the voiceless.
33:45
Because as as athletes
33:47
uh
33:48
you know, I'll
33:50
classified as black in America, right?
33:53
There's there was only three outlets
33:55
where you can really get your voice
33:57
heard.
33:59
You know, sports
34:01
entertainment and the arts.
34:04
Those are the doors that they kind of
34:06
pushed us to. So whenever you became a
34:08
champion
34:10
it was
34:12
it was imperative that when you got the
34:14
mic Mhm. your responsibility and your
34:18
job
34:19
was to speak for the voiceless in the
34:22
community because the voiceless in the
34:24
community, they didn't get a chance to
34:26
be on the national stage. Nobody knew
34:28
what was happening in the neighborhood.
34:30
So when you won, right? and they handed
34:33
you the mic,
34:35
you had to speak for the voiceless. Mhm.
34:37
Now, I'm a
34:39
I'm going to remind y'all, uh, go back
34:41
and
34:42
and and look at the Miami Heat title
34:46
that they won. Ray Allen hit the shot.
34:48
Mhm. And when they gave the mic to Shane
34:51
Battier,
34:52
Mhm.
34:53
go back and listen to what he said.
34:57
Because those
34:59
that's how we were taught, right? And
35:03
and on this day, back in Detroit,
35:06
this is the this is a a reunion with
35:09
Nelson Mandela when he was released from
35:11
prison.
35:11
Mhm.
35:12
First
35:13
first city and state that he came to was
35:16
Detroit, Michigan.
35:18
know that.
35:18
Because what we were standing for in
35:20
Detroit,
35:22
the Bad Boys, you know, speaking out on
35:25
race, class, and gender.
35:28
So, Nelson Mandela, he gets released
35:30
from prison. He comes to Detroit, puts
35:32
on a Bad Boy a Pistons hat, Pistons
35:35
jacket. That was the first time. Look it
35:37
up, right?
35:38
Yeah, he looked it up right now. Yeah.
35:40
And
35:40
Look that up, Kalani.
35:42
All right.
35:42
And so, we were we were always That's
35:45
what, you know, that's why when you talk
35:46
about the Pistons, that's what made us
35:48
so controversial because, again, we were
35:51
speaking on race, class, and gender
35:53
issues.
35:54
Back then.
35:54
Back then, right? It was a big tent,
35:57
right?
35:59
So, after we go off the stage,
36:03
then there was a long silence
36:05
where the athletes really didn't speak
36:09
for the community. They didn't speak
36:11
about what was going on,
36:13
right? And then LeBron James came in.
36:17
And what makes LeBron James so
36:19
controversial and some people don't like
36:20
him or that because when LeBron James
36:23
got the mic,
36:24
Yeah.
36:25
and, you know, Carmelo Anthony and them
36:27
got the mic. When this generation came
36:29
back in, they said, "Hey,
36:32
I'm not about just getting the
36:34
endorsement. Yeah. I got to tell you
36:36
what's going on in Baltimore. I got to
36:38
tell you what's going on in Akron. I got
36:40
to tell you what's going on in my
36:42
community. Oh, I got this thing called
36:45
Twitter now? Yeah. I can tweet. I got
36:48
followers. I got voice.
36:50
Now, the athlete
36:52
is back on the scene,
36:55
you know, speaking for the voiceless.
36:57
And I remind everybody who's listening
36:59
to this,
37:01
when Muhammad Ali could talk,
37:05
America didn't like him. Yeah.
37:09
When he couldn't talk,
37:11
that's when you fell in love with him.
37:13
Wow.
37:14
Those are the facts.
37:15
Wow.
37:17
Isiah Thomas is here, man.
37:18
Wow.
37:19
Wow.
37:20
Um, I want to allow these listeners to
37:23
talk to you, too. 888- 742-3345.
37:28
Um,
37:31
You've done so much in your career. I
37:33
want to be able to tap into some of the
37:35
things. You took on different roles as
37:36
you continued in the in the sport of
37:38
basketball.
37:40
You was uh with the Toronto Raptors,
37:42
right?
37:42
Mhm. I was the co-founder of the Toronto
37:44
Raptors and the co-founder of the Las
37:47
Vegas Aces, the WNBA team in Vegas.
37:51
Okay.
37:51
And and and y'all knew I was going to
37:52
say it. Y'all Y'all knew I was going to
37:54
let it be known.
37:57
Why people don't give you credit for
37:58
that or
37:58
No, actually I was speaking to uh Jim
38:01
Murren, who and he and I
38:03
uh along with Adam Silver
38:05
Mhm.
38:06
and Mark Tatum,
38:08
we took the team from San Antonio
38:11
and moved it to Las Vegas. And Jim
38:14
Murren was the
38:16
uh chairman CEO of MGM at that the
38:21
And he was a friend of mine. I convinced
38:23
him that, you know,
38:24
that not only would the WNBA work in Las
38:28
Vegas, but MGM being a partner
38:32
with the WNBA would be good.
38:34
Mhm.
38:34
So,
38:35
moved the team there. And then, if you
38:37
remember, I was running the the New York
38:39
Liberty at that time.
38:40
Yeah.
38:41
And we had a coach by the name of Bill
38:42
Laimbeer.
38:43
Mhm.
38:44
Do you remember Bill
38:45
Laimbeer. Come on, yeah.
38:47
left the New York Liberty.
38:49
And where did he go?
38:51
To the the Las Vegas Aces.
38:53
To start the Aces.
38:54
That was your doing?
38:55
Yeah, that's that was my doing. So, I I
38:57
took half my staff from the Liberty,
38:59
moved it out to Las Vegas
39:02
to help Jim Murren and the Aces in the
39:04
WNBA get started. So, Jim Murren and I
39:08
are co-founders of the Las Vegas Aces.
39:10
I did not know that. Give a round of
39:11
applause out there. Wake up. We're
39:13
waking them up.
39:14
Wake up.
39:15
All right.
39:16
How do you think you do as a coach? What
39:18
would you rate yourself as a coach?
39:20
Uh unfinished business.
39:22
Okay.
39:22
Um I I thought in in Indiana I did a an
39:26
excellent job there.
39:27
Mhm.
39:28
Had a very young team. Uh got it to the
39:30
point where I thought we we were ready
39:33
to win a championship.
39:35
And
39:36
Bird got hired as the
39:39
as the president that same summer.
39:42
Mhm.
39:42
And
39:44
fired me that summer and brought in Rick
39:47
Carlisle.
39:48
And you just said that like it was
39:49
nothing. He swept it under the He fired
39:51
you.
39:51
No, that's I mean, that's you know,
39:53
that's the business, you know.
39:54
the business? Nothing personal?
39:55
No, when you
39:57
Could have been on his part, I don't
39:58
know.
39:58
Okay.
39:59
But he said it wasn't nothing personal.
40:01
It was smooth the way he said it. He
40:02
said, you know, he called me Cheesy.
40:04
He's like, Cheesy, I like you. I just
40:06
like Rick better. This is my friend,
40:08
right? So,
40:09
you've done a good job here, you know,
40:11
you developed the players.
40:13
Um we grabbed Artest out of Chicago.
40:16
remember our test wasn't doing well in
40:18
Chicago. Brought him to Indiana, got
40:21
Jermaine O'Neal, got Brad Miller.
40:24
I think as a coach right now, I'm
40:27
and correct me if I'm wrong, but there's
40:30
only
40:31
there may be only three
40:34
white Caucasian Americans that have made
40:38
the NBA All-Star team.
40:40
And I think I've had two of the three.
40:43
It was Brad Miller,
40:45
David Lee, Kevin Love. I don't know if
40:48
there's another one that's American
40:50
that's made it.
40:52
So, I did a good job in Indiana.
40:55
What about New York?
40:56
When I got here to New York,
40:59
I should have stayed in the executive
41:01
seat.
41:03
I was forced to coach here, you know, in
41:05
New York. And when I got on the bench
41:07
that first year, I thought I did a good
41:09
job. I did a really good job that first
41:11
year with the talent that I had. My
41:14
second year,
41:15
emotionally, I was a wreck. I wasn't I
41:19
shouldn't have been on the bench my
41:20
second year as a coach.
41:23
My mom was dying.
41:27
It was so much, you know, chaos in here.
41:29
I had been, you know,
41:31
we we would
41:33
there's
41:34
I just was not in a good emotional place
41:37
to
41:38
to do a good job my second year as a
41:41
coach in
41:43
um
41:45
So, when I say unfinished, right?
41:49
That's that's kind of where I'm at in
41:50
terms of my coaching career.
41:52
Okay. Yeah, a lot of Knicks fans well,
41:55
that second year, did they the Knicks
41:56
fans ever give you backlash?
42:00
Well, yeah, I I got a lot of backlash.
42:02
But when you losing, you should get
42:03
backlash.
42:04
I mean, that that that's how it goes,
42:06
you know. I
42:07
I've gotten I've gotten way more cheers
42:11
than
42:12
I have, you know, backlash. But when you
42:14
when you lose and and, you know,
42:17
I I would say this, and this is what I
42:20
I admired about Knicks fans.
42:26
When you losing in other cities,
42:29
they don't show up.
42:31
Yeah.
42:31
They just stop coming to the games.
42:35
Here in New York,
42:37
I I admire and
42:41
and love that
42:43
no matter how bad the team is,
42:46
they come.
42:47
they show up.
42:48
I mean that I mean
42:50
God and right.
42:51
They are in it for punishment.
42:52
No, no, that that is mad respect. And
42:55
and you know, you
42:57
And for me, you know,
43:00
I
43:01
my second year, I didn't like I say,
43:04
emotionally I I wasn't
43:06
I wasn't as good as I was my first year.
43:08
Yeah.
43:08
And, you know,
43:10
but
43:11
you know, you you you want to give as a
43:15
as an entertainer, as a performer,
43:18
you want to give that audience your
43:21
best. You know, they they come in there
43:23
and you you know, I I I want to give
43:26
them a show. I want to
43:27
Yeah.
43:28
you know, but I I wasn't at my best. And
43:30
I
43:32
The thing that I
43:34
The thing that I regret is that
43:37
New York never really got to see me
43:41
at my best.
43:42
Yeah. Yeah.
43:43
and that's you know, and that that's a
43:45
miss, I think, on all our parts.
43:47
Okay. Man, Isiah Thomas is here. I'm
43:49
opening up these phone lines.
43:51
888-742-3345. I hope you enjoying this
43:53
as much as I am, man. Uh we going to
43:55
take take some calls and let Tracy and
43:57
DB jump
44:00
in. Sway in the Morning, Shade 45.
44:02
Imagine, man, two-time NBA champion.
44:05
He's our MVP. He's the MVP. He's the
44:07
all-time MVP of the black community. I
44:09
want to say um Isiah Thomas is here and
44:12
he doing a new collaboration with
44:14
Mitchell & Ness. The original Bad Boy
44:16
collection is available now. You can go
44:18
to mitchellandness.com.
44:21
He has a hoodie on right now, the
44:23
original Bad Boys hoodie on. Citizens,
44:25
listen. Go to mitchellandness.com,
44:28
do it now. These collaborative efforts
44:30
sometimes they sell out quick.
44:31
Mhm.
44:32
So, I've got a lot of people on the
44:33
lines while we're talking. Go to
44:35
mitchellandness.com
44:36
and look up the original Bad Boy
44:38
collection. How did this happen? Do you
44:39
own the um
44:41
the trademark, Apple?
44:42
Uh
44:43
uh
44:44
own this trademark
44:46
uh and
44:47
uh with
44:49
So,
44:50
my son Joshua, you know, was like, you
44:52
know,
44:53
"Dad, we we got to do something, you
44:54
know, apparel-wise, you know, he's in
44:56
the fashion and everything else." And
44:59
and he had the idea
45:01
uh along with a good friend of mine uh
45:04
by the name of Kevin Wolf, who's the
45:05
president of Mitchell & Ness.
45:07
Yeah.
45:07
Uh about doing a a Bad Boy collection,
45:10
you know, original, you know, OG Bad Boy
45:13
collection. And I, you know, he's like,
45:14
"I hear a lot of people call you OG.
45:16
What does that mean?" So forth and so
45:18
on. So, we we started talking about it.
45:20
And then I started talking to, you know,
45:23
a couple of the players. We got a group
45:24
chat.
45:25
Mhm.
45:25
I got to show you my my Bad Boys group
45:27
chat.
45:27
your group. Who's on it? Who's on it?
45:29
Can you tell us who's on it?
45:29
Laimbeer, Mahorn, Salley, you know,
45:31
Buddha, you know, Mark Aguirre,
45:34
you know, so we
45:36
we we hit each other and we talk, you
45:37
know, daily.
45:39
Um and and so I asked them, you know,
45:42
how would they feel about if we did a
45:44
collection together? So,
45:47
uh this is the first rollout
45:49
of of myself
45:50
and Joshua, you know, he designed the
45:52
shirts, he designed the hoodies and
45:54
everything else.
45:54
Okay.
45:55
Came up with the logo.
45:56
Okay.
45:57
So, you know, that's
45:58
Joshua.
45:59
It's the family business.
46:00
We don't know him as Joshua, but we
46:04
You know.
46:04
You know, so it's the family business.
46:06
So,
46:07
and and now we're looking forward to
46:09
doing more things and you know, very
46:12
excited. You know, Mitchell & Ness
46:14
you know, they
46:15
they are the throwback OG collection
46:17
that when people think about, you know,
46:20
classic OG stuff,
46:22
you know, they go to Mitchell & Ness.
46:23
So, it was only right that we did it
46:24
with them and then
46:26
from a a relationship and friendship
46:29
wise, you know, I've been knowing you
46:31
know, the CEO of Mitchell & Ness, Kevin
46:34
Wolf.
46:34
Been knowing him since our Toronto days
46:37
when he was the president of Nike. I was
46:39
the co-founder of Rap of the Raptors. We
46:42
collaborated there. So, we're back doing
46:44
business again.
46:45
I love it, man. The the merch looks
46:46
great.
46:47
Yeah, it's hard.
46:48
Isaiah didn't bring us any, but he did
46:50
he did come. So, that's what's
46:52
important. All right, Tracy, go ahead.
46:54
Isaiah, I've been enjoying this
46:56
conversation thoroughly. Like you, when
46:57
it comes to our pro athletes, I'm really
47:00
proud of how so many of them speak up
47:03
and out against a lot of the social
47:05
injustices. And that's an advantage of
47:08
being in the spotlight, being able to
47:10
speak power to your passions and to your
47:12
beliefs. It also makes me think of the
47:14
disadvantages of being a star
47:16
professional athlete and how perhaps all
47:19
of your vices are made available to you.
47:21
You have a whole buffet for your ego
47:23
potentially. And many people perhaps may
47:26
see you as a target to either take
47:28
advantage of in what whichever way,
47:30
whether it's through money, whether it's
47:32
through duplication perhaps as women.
47:35
I'm interested in knowing how are you
47:38
able to navigate those vices that came
47:41
with your career heights? And also, what
47:43
are some of the advice that you give as
47:45
a coach to you know, the players who are
47:48
dealing with multitudes of women, maybe
47:51
old friends who do not have their best
47:52
intentions in mind, that sort of thing.
47:55
So,
47:56
um
47:58
I
47:59
I met my wife,
48:00
um
48:01
in college.
48:02
Mhm.
48:02
And
48:05
and I I was so lucky
48:08
and I've been so fortunate
48:10
to to have her in my life. Um we've been
48:14
together, you know, 40 years. I mean, I
48:17
my
48:17
My my
48:18
my
48:21
my whole my whole adult life,
48:25
you know,
48:26
you know, I've basically been with her.
48:28
And you know, the the advice that I that
48:32
I give is that
48:35
a relationships are hard
48:37
and there're going to be ups and downs
48:40
and it's never going to be a smooth
48:42
ride. Um and I I can remember asking my
48:45
mom this when I was young growing up. I
48:48
used to always say, "Mom, you know,
48:50
when are we ever going to get to easy
48:52
street?" Right? Cuz it's always, you
48:54
know, she said, "Baby, ain't no such
48:56
thing as easy street."
48:58
Yeah.
48:58
and she said, "The only thing you can do
49:01
is keep putting one foot in front of the
49:03
other." And
49:05
you know, with the with the players in
49:07
the NBA today,
49:09
uh and the way social media is and
49:12
everything else,
49:13
um
49:14
I I actually
49:17
I feel for a lot of them because
49:21
uh
49:22
while there was while there were people
49:25
who took advantage of myself and took
49:27
advantage of us as a family and
49:29
everything else, you know, because when
49:31
you have money, you know, it
49:32
Mhm.
49:33
people going to take advantage of you.
49:34
They they think that's part of the game
49:37
and I guess it is, right? But uh in
49:40
today's world with athletes,
49:44
there's so much so much coming at them.
49:49
So many bad things coming at them,
49:51
right? So many
49:53
bad
49:55
things and people to navigate. You know,
49:58
it's almost overwhelming, you know, and
50:01
it is overwhelming for a lot of them.
50:03
You know, you
50:04
and it's so easy to get
50:07
uh labeled, mistreated,
50:10
Yeah.
50:10
manipulated, taken advantage of,
50:13
and it seems like we're in a a era
50:17
in a place now in the world where people
50:19
say,
50:21
"Well, yeah, that's that's how it is.
50:23
Yeah.
50:24
I'm supposed to take advantage of you.
50:26
I'm supposed to take your money. I'm
50:28
supposed to mistreat you. You
50:31
you should know better."
50:32
Right.
50:33
Mhm.
50:34
How about, "No, you shouldn't do this to
50:36
me."
50:38
Yeah, you should do better. Yeah, right.
50:39
How about How about, "No, you you you
50:41
really shouldn't do this to me. Not that
50:44
I should know better,
50:46
right? And And now I have to prepare
50:50
to look at everyone, you know, you
50:52
asking that all the high-profile people
50:54
now,
50:55
Mhm.
50:55
to look at everyone
50:58
with the eye of suspicion.
51:01
And that's
51:02
that ain't a good place.
51:04
Mhm.
51:04
You know, I'm
51:05
as you see, I'm open. I I trust. Hey,
51:08
how you doing? I speak to anybody. I
51:11
wait my turn.
51:13
You know,
51:14
right now, you know,
51:17
we're in a we're in a dangerous place in
51:19
society.
51:20
Mhm.
51:20
Yeah.
51:21
Wow.
51:21
Isiah Thomas is here. We got a lot of
51:23
people lined up on the lines. When I
51:25
come to you, it has to be a say your
51:26
name, a quick question, and you'll give
51:29
a quick answer. DB, you want to chime
51:30
in?
51:30
Yeah, really quick. Um back in 1994, the
51:33
movie Hoop Dreams came out, and uh
51:35
Arthur Agee William Gates, they were the
51:37
two guys from Chicago. Arthur was a huge
51:39
fan of yours. He had posters in his
51:40
room. He wanted to play like you. You
51:42
went to Saint Joseph, where he ended up
51:43
transferring to to get a better chance
51:45
at being an athlete. And um it was the
51:48
first realistic look for me at the
51:50
process of working hard against the odds
51:53
and doing everything right that you feel
51:55
will give you a better shot at making it
51:56
to the league. But it also showed you
51:58
how you can do all those things and
52:00
still not make it.
52:02
Was it hard for you as a player when you
52:04
realized that you had the it factor like
52:06
you were talking about earlier and your
52:07
teammates and friends realizing that I'm
52:09
probably not going to join you on this
52:10
journey. I need to figure out life in
52:12
another way cuz I'm not going to the
52:14
NBA.
52:15
Again, I I was so fortunate to have
52:18
friends
52:19
who said,
52:22
"I can't go with you.
52:24
Good luck, man.
52:26
And
52:27
Mhm.
52:28
I'm I'm going to root for you. I'm going
52:29
to cheer for you.
52:31
And I'm going to be there whenever you
52:32
come home.
52:34
But
52:35
I'm not trying to take this journey with
52:37
you.
52:38
I'm just going to cheer for you and root
52:40
for you and genuinely be happy for you.
52:44
I was I was fortunate to have those kind
52:46
of friends. Um
52:49
And and then I was just lucky to make
52:51
it. I mean, at the end of the day when
52:53
you when you look at people my size
52:57
going to the NBA,
52:58
I mean,
53:01
what we know as small people, I don't
53:03
know if you play. I'm just sizing you up
53:05
right now. But
53:07
small people, man,
53:09
on any given day
53:11
we out on the court.
53:12
Yeah.
53:12
Somebody can get us. You know what I
53:13
mean? It just depends cuz again, we
53:16
don't
53:17
we don't we don't have that we don't
53:18
have that genetic gift where we can be
53:20
bigger than somebody. We can push them
53:22
around or we can just jump higher than
53:25
them.
53:25
out of the way, small
53:26
dudes just like, "Hey, on any given day,
53:28
man, if his J is working, you got me
53:31
today."
53:32
You know, you could do
53:33
Yeah, man.
53:35
You just made me think of something. We
53:37
we having all this conversation about uh
53:40
basketball in the Bay Area.
53:43
Um where I'm from and now we just
53:45
received Chris Paul as a gift to the
53:49
Golden State Warriors. Round of applause
53:51
for that. I'm a Warriors fanatic.
53:54
Warriors fanatic.
53:55
Ready to fight if you say the wrong
53:57
things here.
53:58
Um Chris Paul alluded that you had
54:00
something to do with that, uh him going
54:03
to the Warriors. Is that true?
54:05
I'm going to speak to Chris when I see
54:06
him.
54:07
Okay.
54:07
That's all I'm
54:08
cuz I you know
54:11
what he dropped,
54:12
you know, nationally,
54:15
that was just some that that, you know,
54:18
I speak to him when I see him.
54:19
Okay. All right. I'm a CP3 fan. If you
54:22
did or didn't, I'm glad he's going to
54:23
the Warriors.
54:25
All right. We're going to take some
54:26
phone calls right now. We got Russ from
54:29
Queens on the line. Russ, what up, man?
54:31
Rise and shine.
54:32
What up, Russ?
54:34
Hey, how are you guys doing? Hey,
54:36
good to see you guys family. Hey, first
54:38
off, I wanted to say I just say Isaiah
54:40
Thomas,
54:41
man, you were such an inspiration for me
54:43
in my life. I wore the number 11 when I
54:46
first laid eyes on you when you won your
54:48
national championship 1981 against
54:50
University of North Carolina.
54:52
I wore number 11,
54:54
took that number, became a Hall of Fame
54:56
member at Manhattan College. So, I just
54:59
want to take this time to thank you
55:01
for being that inspiration that
55:03
inspiration I needed
55:05
to do that. I really appreciate it
55:06
talking to you, Isaiah Thomas. Isaiah
55:08
Lord Thomas, pardon me.
55:10
The third.
55:12
Thank you, brother, and and
55:13
congratulations on making it to the Hall
55:15
of Fame. That that's not a easy thing to
55:18
do, and I'm I'm glad that basketball was
55:20
good to you.
55:21
Uh and I hope it's still being good to
55:24
you.
55:25
It has. It It definitely has been that
55:27
inspiration and
55:29
you know, with everything. And I I had a
55:31
quick question for you really quick if I
55:33
could, guys family. So, Isaiah,
55:36
how were you able to transition from
55:37
being that basketball icon, that NBA
55:40
point guard, to being, you know, to
55:43
transition into your endeavors that you
55:44
do now?
55:47
You know, I I again, I was I was
55:49
fortunate enough to to have good mentors
55:52
and be around people who who understood
55:55
business, but also understood life. And
55:58
was, you know, willing to teach me some
56:00
lessons.
56:01
Um
56:02
I study a lot, I read a lot. Um
56:06
you know, I I graduated, you know, from
56:08
Indiana University. Went back to school,
56:12
uh I got my master's. Uh so, applying
56:15
the the the academic side uh with the
56:18
life experience side uh and then having,
56:22
you know, people who were willing to
56:24
help you and want to help you, cuz you
56:26
never have success by yourself. Uh so,
56:29
I'm
56:30
blessed, fortunate, and lucky, and
56:32
sometimes you're just in the right place
56:33
at the right time.
56:34
Yeah, and what I see, he got that
56:35
master's degree in the Bay Area, just
56:37
for the record, in case y'all didn't
56:38
know.
56:39
Still
56:42
Shout out to the Berkeley Bears.
56:44
you go, man. Hey, we got Jamal on the
56:46
line from LA. Go ahead, Jamal.
56:48
Hey, Jamal.
56:50
Hey hey, what's up?
56:51
Rod and Grind, thank you for taking my
56:53
call. My question for Isiah Thomas,
56:55
King,
56:56
it's really just What is What is your
56:58
thoughts on the NBA today and the
57:00
grittiness, the toughness, as we think
57:02
about the '70s and '80s and '90s? How
57:05
tough all the NBA players were, the
57:07
elbows and and everything. And like, now
57:10
it seems like you bump a player and you
57:11
go flying across the sideline. I just
57:14
want to get your thoughts on, you know,
57:16
the flopping and the grittiness of the
57:18
NBA today versus back in the day.
57:20
Yeah, I would I would uh say that
57:23
uh not only sport, but also um
57:27
parenting, coaching, um
57:31
uh teaching, all of those things are
57:33
different today. Uh Uh and and you know,
57:36
sport
57:37
sport mirrors society in a lot of ways.
57:41
Uh so, the
57:42
you know, the the the teaching and the
57:45
parenting that you got at home
57:48
uh is totally different, you know, in
57:51
the in the '80s
57:53
Mhm.
57:53
than it is, you know, 2023. You know, I
57:56
didn't
57:57
I didn't come up on a Dr. Spock method
57:59
and I was never put on time out.
58:04
You know, and
58:05
Spock method.
58:06
And and coaching, you know, today uh
58:09
player-wise, you know, it's it's just a
58:11
different time and um
58:14
you know, it's it's not like it used to
58:16
be. There's some some good things about
58:18
it. And then there's some nostalgic
58:21
things that we we wish would would would
58:24
return like like defense. You know, I I
58:27
think right now
58:29
they make it too easy for the offense to
58:31
score. Okay. You know,
58:34
how about how about some resistance,
58:36
right? If we if we get a little
58:38
resistance, then we'll see how good a
58:40
offensive player you really are.
58:42
They talk about that cuz basketball
58:44
scores be like 180
58:46
to 100.
58:49
It's crazy though.
58:51
That's funny.
58:51
Yo, haven't said we going to see our
58:53
first 200 point game. So
58:56
Hey, I I sit here and I still hold the
58:58
record. We the Detroit Pistons
59:01
What was it?
59:01
the highest scoring game in the NBA.
59:04
Mhm.
59:05
We scored 186 points.
59:07
Oh my god.
59:08
Yeah, WE WAS THAT GOOD.
59:11
WOW.
59:13
NOBODY took that. That what year was
59:15
that?
59:15
186?
59:16
Uh damn. Was that '84 '85?
59:20
That was rude, man.
59:21
It's going to be a 200 point game.
59:23
to be a 200 point game.
59:24
Heck yeah, 180 and
59:26
Pistons versus Nuggets, December 13th,
59:28
1983.
59:29
Oh my god.
59:30
183?
59:31
What what was the What was the Nuggets'
59:33
score?
59:33
184.
59:34
184?
59:36
Oh
59:37
Well, what was happening that day?
59:39
Hey, we we was we was
59:41
How about this? It was in the altitude,
59:44
so when I hear when I hear them talk
59:45
about, "Oh, you on the altitude affects
59:48
all these players." You know, I'm
59:49
sitting there like, "Wait a minute. We
59:51
dropped 186 in the altitude, so it
59:54
didn't affect us that much."
59:55
What was going on that night? Everybody
59:57
was hot. Didn't nobody miss.
1:00:00
You know?
1:00:00
Man, Isiah Thomas is here, man. Give him
1:00:03
a round of applause. Isiah Lord Thomas
1:00:05
the third.
1:00:07
Um
1:00:08
I feel like you got to keep coming back,
1:00:10
man, periodically, man. Would you be
1:00:12
into that? Every time you in town, just
1:00:13
come see us, man.
1:00:14
Any anytime you ask, you know, I'm I'm
1:00:17
not one of them guys that I'm I'm like
1:00:19
this. You from Oakland, I'm Chicago,
1:00:21
right? I give you my phone number. I
1:00:23
answer the phone.
1:00:25
I do respond back. You invite me, I show
1:00:28
up, right? And if I can't come, I just
1:00:31
tell you, "No, I I I'm not coming." And
1:00:33
if I can come, you know, yeah, I'll be
1:00:35
there. Only thing I ask is that
1:00:38
What am I going to say?
1:00:39
BE ON TIME.
1:00:55
ALL RIGHT, LAST LAST LAST THING. LAST
1:00:57
THING.
1:00:58
Y'all Y'all want a championship?
1:01:00
Whatever. All right, so
1:01:03
'89 and '90 are the years you won a You
1:01:05
won a championship.
1:01:07
Back to back.
1:01:07
Back to back.
1:01:10
What what championship team, in your
1:01:13
imagination, you think would have gave
1:01:16
y'all the biggest run for your money?
1:01:19
In this era?
1:01:20
Any era.
1:01:21
Oh, in any Oh, well, them them Boston
1:01:24
Celtics and them LA Lakers.
1:01:26
Okay.
1:01:26
They they they were good. I mean, when
1:01:28
you talk about the Celtics and the
1:01:30
Lakers during that period of time.
1:01:32
Yeah.
1:01:33
Um
1:01:35
in in in in any measurement, any
1:01:39
criteria measurement,
1:01:41
the Lakers and the Celtics, those two
1:01:43
teams are arguably
1:01:47
the top three teams to ever play
1:01:50
the game of basketball.
1:01:51
Okay.
1:01:53
We beat them.
1:01:57
Swish.
1:01:58
Okay. And then
1:02:01
And my job is way Those are the facts.
1:02:03
Okay. And then Okay. Hypothetically, in
1:02:06
this era, who would give you
1:02:08
Hypothetically, in this era,
1:02:11
um
1:02:17
That that
1:02:19
that LeBron James team that
1:02:22
came back 3-1
1:02:24
Mhm.
1:02:25
against against Golden State.
1:02:27
yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
1:02:27
1:02:27
1:02:28
1:02:28
1:02:28
1:02:28
1:02:29
1:02:29
yeah, yeah, yeah,
1:02:30
No, but
1:02:31
I mean, when you when you look at that
1:02:32
team, you know, with with Kevin Love,
1:02:35
Kyrie, LeBron,
1:02:38
you know, Tristan was on top of his
1:02:40
game. I mean, they
1:02:42
they were they were playing Those those
1:02:44
that series, that
1:02:47
that may be one of the the greatest
1:02:50
uh championship comebacks that I've ever
1:02:52
seen.
1:02:53
Mhm.
1:02:53
You know, Golden State 73 and 9 that
1:02:57
year.
1:02:57
Yeah.
1:02:57
73 and 9.
1:03:00
And up 3-1 in the NBA Finals.
1:03:05
And
1:03:08
and LeBron and that team come back and
1:03:10
win three straight and win the last one
1:03:12
in Golden State. Kyrie on the right side
1:03:15
of the floor. Shake, shake, shake, step
1:03:18
back, boom.
1:03:21
That was cold. That was cold. That I
1:03:25
You know
1:03:25
I told you to let him stop before I said
1:03:27
he stopped on a good It was a good
1:03:29
moment, too. He kept going. He had to
1:03:30
push you, and now this is what you get.
1:03:33
But Golden State and Steph No, Steph
1:03:35
Steph has changed the game. Yeah. Steph
1:03:38
Steph has totally changed We see kids
1:03:40
now
1:03:41
who never could shoot,
1:03:44
wouldn't even attempt to shoot the ball
1:03:46
Mhm.
1:03:47
from half court
1:03:49
or the hash mark. What What Steph Curry
1:03:51
has done to the game of basketball
1:03:53
is he's expanded the imagination
1:03:56
Yeah.
1:03:57
of everybody who steps out on the floor.
1:03:59
We We have little kids now who in eighth
1:04:02
grade
1:04:03
who, you know, shooting threes
1:04:06
with with great form, Steph Curry form,
1:04:09
right? And, you know, what the way he's
1:04:12
impacted the game,
1:04:15
you know, it's
1:04:16
it will be, you know, everlasting.
1:04:18
Thank you for that, man. I appreciate
1:04:20
that. That's the mic drop right there.
1:04:22
All right.
1:04:22
And shout out to Damian Lillard, too.
1:04:24
Dame.
1:04:25
Dame Dolla, man. Man, listen, miss
1:04:28
Mitchell and Ness.com, I need everybody
1:04:31
tuning. You got a lot of people on the
1:04:32
phone lines. Sharia in Connecticut,
1:04:35
Darrell in Charlotte,
1:04:37
Mark in DC, Kenny in Dallas, Jay Murray
1:04:40
in Indianapolis.
1:04:41
You guys can hit up Isaiah directly on
1:04:43
his social media, right? What's your
1:04:45
social, man?
1:04:46
Isaiah Thomas.
1:04:48
That it is. Hit him
1:04:54
I I S I A H, all right, Thomas. All
1:04:58
right, hit him up, and you can ask him
1:04:59
those questions, man. I want to say it's
1:05:01
an honor to have you on the show today,
1:05:02
brother.
1:05:02
Yeah, thank you. Thank you.
1:05:03
Real honor, man. This is This is
1:05:05
why I continue to This is personally why
1:05:08
I continue to do what I do here with
1:05:10
Heather and Tracy and the whole team
1:05:12
Kahlani torch and DB.
1:05:16
Moments like this
1:05:17
moments like this. So I want to say
1:05:19
thank you for the inspiration and the
1:05:21
motivation and I love that you still
1:05:23
TALK THAT
1:05:28
ABSOLUTELY.
1:05:29
LOVE YOU MAN. LOVE YOUR SON TOO. He been
1:05:31
on our airwaves and your daughter you
1:05:33
know and we'll continue to do that. When
1:05:35
you coming back?
1:05:37
I'll be back soon man. Rocking it out.
1:05:39
Okay, good. It's a good answer. All
1:05:42
right, cool man. We'll be back tomorrow
1:05:44
citizens. Thank you for tuning in to

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NBA Legend Isiah Thomas on Chris Paul Controversy, Bill Russell’s Legacy & Ranks Best Champions

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