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💥 Get the REAL inside scoop on Floyd Mayweather’s $100 MILLION payday in this explosive episode of Sway’s Universe! 💰 Join Sway and Stephen Espinoza as they dive into the jaw-dropping details of Floyd’s blockbuster Pacquiao fight, the behind-the-scenes negotiations at Showtime Sports, and how Espinoza helped shake up the boxing world. You won’t believe the truth about HBO, the $600 million payday, and the legendary six-fight deal that changed EVERYTHING.
💬 From exclusive stories about Mayweather and Mike Tyson to Espinoza’s rise from humble beginnings to running Showtime Sports, this is the untold side of boxing that fans NEED to hear. Plus, what’s next for boxing with the rise of celebrity fights, Saudi money, and Amazon’s growing influence?
🔥 Don’t miss this unfiltered, exclusive interview with Stephen Espinoza on Sway In The Morning, where legacy, money, and the future of boxing collide. Hit that subscribe button now and join the conversation! #SwayInTheMorning #FloydMayweather #StephenEspinoza #BoxingBusiness #SwaysUniverse
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CHAPTERS:
00:00 - Sway and Steve Espinoza Catch Up
04:15 - How Steve Got Into Boxing
08:51 - Impact of Mayweather Deal on Boxing
10:55 - Predictions for Canelo vs Plant Fight
17:05 - Effect of Streaming on Boxing Industry
20:54 - PBC's Future Plans in Boxing
23:58 - Does Boxing Feature the Best Fighters?
25:55 - Steve Espinoza Discusses Shakur Stevenson
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0:01
Bridge business citizens and this is
0:03
something special man. Let's clap it up.
0:06
We just saw the champ Stevenson just
0:08
walk by.
0:09
>> He's about to join us momentarily but I
0:12
have to speak on my friend my brother
0:14
that I I couldn't be more proud of.
0:16
Yeah. You know it's just really amazing
0:18
to see this guy and I know
0:20
>> we just smile look at each other in
0:21
disbelief. Um, you know, maybe I don't
0:24
even know how many years ago.
0:26
>> 30 plus years ago.
0:28
>> 30 35
0:29
>> 35 years ago. Asian. There ain't too
0:32
many. Look, I know you got a lot of your
0:34
original crew around. There ain't too
0:35
many people on the show.
0:36
>> Yeah.
0:37
>> Who've known you since you was 17.
0:38
>> That's true, bro.
0:40
>> Wow. This dude has known. Yeah, man. He
0:42
has. And he we used to
0:44
>> dynamic force.
0:45
>> Damn. He's
0:48
>> No, don't be ashamed. Nothing to be
0:50
ashamed of. That is I have no one I can
0:53
talk to these things about. Dynamic
0:55
Force, the the infamous DJ contest that
0:58
opened the door to this entire career.
1:00
>> Yeah, man.
1:01
>> Wow.
1:01
>> You know the whole story.
1:02
>> Oh yeah.
1:03
>> Fly Force is the original crew name King
1:05
Tac and I went under, formerly a B boy
1:08
crew of the San Francisco Ballet
1:11
Breakers, so on and so forth. And then
1:13
we transitioned into, you know, a rapper
1:16
DJ crew and he was right there. and uh
1:19
Kev Kev with the drum and Stanford and
1:22
this man has truly
1:24
>> watched we we in par in a parallel
1:27
universes we have watched each other
1:29
really ascend in different fields u to
1:32
the point that doesn't even surprise me
1:35
that he's a 12 time Emmy awardw winning
1:38
sports media champion it doesn't
1:40
surprise me
1:41
>> and this is why we're always so happy
1:43
when we see each other cuz you know at
1:45
the end of the day there was this little
1:47
tiny opportunity
1:49
This was, you know, Sway and Tech, you
1:51
know, Tech was in that DJ contest.
1:54
>> You know, it led to 40 minutes.
1:56
>> 40 minutes
1:58
>> on on was it Friday night
1:59
>> on KL?
2:00
>> On KMEL.
2:01
>> Wow.
2:02
>> And from there that that turned into the
2:04
wakeup show that turned into the media
2:06
empire that you see right now.
2:08
>> Well said.
2:09
>> Yeah.
2:09
>> Jesus, man. He's giving me an intro.
2:11
>> No, no, no. I mean, you talk about it.
2:13
There are points in your life when you
2:16
have to deliver. You get like one or two
2:18
opportunities that can change the
2:19
trajectory of your life.
2:20
>> That was 40 minutes that changed the
2:22
trajectory of your entire life.
2:24
>> That's true, man.
2:25
>> Well, it's real.
2:25
>> Wait, hold up. Steven Espinosa is here.
2:27
Let's make make that announcement real
2:29
quick. Thank you, brother. I was going
2:31
to say, Steve, what I when I knew um the
2:33
power of you guys relationship and
2:35
friendship, I can personally say because
2:37
I've known Sway for over 30 years now as
2:40
well and he doesn't talk about many
2:42
people off air, you know, and it's those
2:45
moments when you realize when he's
2:46
having these conversations and he's like
2:48
with me and Steve, it's not about the
2:50
boxing relationship. This is my friend.
2:53
This is my brother. And so I hold you in
2:55
high regard just because of the thing
2:57
that you just shared and what he spoke
2:59
about with you. And so that says a lot
3:01
about who you are because we all know
3:03
how this business can be in this
3:04
industry. A lot of people are seasonal,
3:07
right? Just to keep it light. Some
3:09
people are seasonal and you've managed
3:12
you guys to form a brotherhood in in a
3:14
in a industry where it's just really
3:16
hard, you know, to trust people,
3:19
>> to stay in contact with people, to not
3:21
take advantage of people. So, I'm so
3:23
glad that you're here as well with us
3:24
today.
3:25
>> I look, I appreciate it and, you know,
3:27
we can get on to actual discussion, but
3:29
but the reality is neither of us is
3:31
supposed to be here.
3:32
>> Yeah.
3:33
>> Yeah. I I didn't have family, you know,
3:36
who was in the media business. I grew up
3:38
humble, single, single mother, you know,
3:40
all of that. And to be to the point
3:42
where I'm deciding what's on TV,
3:45
>> you know what you programming, running a
3:46
network, you know, you with a media
3:48
empire and you know the chances that the
3:50
two of us starting from that point get
3:52
to this point,
3:53
>> you know, humble you humble beginnings
3:55
don't even begin to describe it. But
3:58
>> like to travel that distance,
4:00
>> you know, that that that's our bond.
4:02
>> Amen.
4:02
>> Yeah, man. That's our bomb, man. Steve
4:04
Espinosa, man. Thank you, man. You said
4:06
it so much better than I've ever said
4:08
it. Steve, I don't might be the martini,
4:10
brother. I don't know what happened,
4:11
man. But let's talk about that moment of
4:15
opportunity that happened for you. Most
4:17
a lot of people know you for u being a
4:20
president of show of sports at Showtime,
4:22
but your entry to boxing wasn't with
4:25
that, right? You came from a law firm.
4:28
>> No, I was at a law firm one day and I
4:30
was representing actors, writers,
4:32
director as a Hollywood attorney. One
4:34
day a, you know, a lawyer had left the
4:36
firm and he walks in and drops a stack
4:39
of of files on my desk, you know,
4:41
probably, you know, three feet high. He
4:43
said, "Congratulations. You now
4:45
represent Oscar De Hoya." Huh?
4:47
>> What?
4:48
>> And and I said, "Well, I don't you know,
4:50
I don't I don't know the boxing
4:52
business. I like I'm I'm four years out
4:54
of law school. You know, I'm 28 29 years
4:56
old." And he says, "Well, look, you're
4:59
an entertainment attorney. You do TV
5:01
stuff. He's on TV. figure it out. Now
5:05
then, fast forward about 18 months, two
5:08
years. I leave that law firm. I go to
5:11
another law firm. Oscar comes with me.
5:13
That law firm has just signed Mike
5:15
Tyson.
5:17
>> Wow.
5:17
>> So, they said, "Oh, the new guy, you
5:19
know, the new guy also does boxing. He
5:21
knows how to handle boxers. He can
5:23
handle Mike." So, all of a sudden, I'm
5:24
five years out of law school and I'm the
5:26
lawyer for Mike Tyson and Oscar Deloy,
5:29
man. you know, and it was it was, you
5:32
know, one of the most entertaining,
5:33
interesting parts of my career. If I
5:35
could write books, I mean, a lot of
5:36
stuff is going to the grave with me. If
5:38
I could write a book about that stuff, I
5:41
mean, you know, Mike Tyson is still one
5:43
of my favorite people in the world.
5:44
>> Yeah, Mike is amazing. He's beautiful.
5:47
Wow. And so that's how it happened. Did
5:49
Did Oscar already have the dream of
5:51
Golden Boy at that time?
5:53
>> Not really. About three or about three
5:55
years after that, he formed the company.
5:56
So, I became the attorney for the
5:58
company. I actually drafted Canelo's
6:01
very first contract when he signed to
6:03
Golden Boy,
6:03
>> the one he hates.
6:05
>> You been there?
6:08
>> Yeah. So, I locked him into that, you
6:10
know, way back when. And you know, and
6:13
then again, those opportunities like um
6:16
you know, and then I I realized later on
6:18
what happens at those law firms is you
6:20
walk into and they hand you a piece of
6:22
paper. They say, "Okay, these are the
6:23
clients. I came in with my own clients,
6:24
but they also hand you a piece of paper.
6:26
This is who you're working on.
6:28
So I look at it and it's like, "Oh, it's
6:30
uh it's Mike Tyson. It's Eminem. It's,
6:33
you know, all these people." I'm like,
6:34
"Oh, I'm I'm excited."
6:36
>> Fast forward again another year, we have
6:39
a meeting cuz another new guy's coming
6:40
in. And we have this meeting. I'm like,
6:42
"What's this meeting about?" He says,
6:44
"Well, this is a meeting for all the
6:47
people that the lawyers don't want to
6:48
represent cuz we're going to give them
6:49
to the new guy coming in."
6:51
>> Yeah.
6:51
>> So, I look back at my list. I'm like,
6:53
"Oh, this is a list not of people like I
6:55
was like, "Oh, they trust me with these.
6:57
These are a list of people that no one
6:59
else wanted to represent.
7:00
>> Uhhuh.
7:00
>> It, you know, it was, you know, it was
7:02
Marshall, it was Mike Tyson, it was
7:04
Whitney Houston,
7:06
>> you know, it was
7:07
>> Vanessa Hudins.
7:08
>> Vanessa Hudins, you know, at the time.
7:10
Yeah. Um, you know, Snoop, you know,
7:13
Keanu Reeves. Everyone liked him. He
7:15
wasn't on that list. I just started
7:16
working with him later on. But, you
7:18
know, that was it. And I thought I was
7:20
going to be an attorney for the rest of
7:21
my life. I was happy doing that.
7:23
>> Yeah. And then you made a transition.
7:25
And then I got tricked into doing a
7:27
going on a job interview.
7:28
>> Uhhuh.
7:29
>> You know, a guy an agent at at CIA, he
7:32
told me, he said, "Hey, um, you know,
7:34
there's a position at Showtime open.
7:36
They want to talk to you and get your
7:38
opinion on who they should hire."
7:40
>> I said, I said, "Okay." Like, "Yeah,
7:42
what?" He's like, "I I'll set up a
7:44
lunch. You're going to lunch tomorrow."
7:46
>> Um, so the next day, you know, he sets
7:48
up the lunch. I go to lunch. It's the
7:49
president of the network.
7:51
>> And I'm like, "This is a little weird,
7:52
but okay." And I'm 10 minutes into it
7:55
and I realized he's interviewing me for
7:58
a job like that I didn't know I was
8:00
applying for. Um, but he was a great
8:03
salesman. Uh, he probably saw some
8:05
things in me that I didn't see in me.
8:07
>> A week later, I'd signed a contract. Two
8:09
weeks after that, I moved to New York
8:10
and all of a sudden, I'm not a lawyer.
8:11
I'm running a network. And I said to him
8:14
before before I signed my contract, I
8:16
said, "Look, I understand this green
8:18
light authority. I get to put stuff on
8:20
air, decide part of the programming for
8:22
the network. He says, "Yeah, that's
8:24
that's the job." I said, "You do realize
8:26
I've never worked at a TV network
8:28
before."
8:29
>> He's like, "Yeah, well, we think you'll
8:30
figure it out."
8:32
>> Yes.
8:32
>> And if not, we'll just fire you in three
8:34
years when your broadcast is done. And
8:35
and that position was the president of
8:37
sports at Showtime.
8:39
>> That's right.
8:39
>> And how long were you were attorney
8:41
prior to that?
8:42
>> 15 years.
8:43
>> Wow. Beautiful.
8:44
>> Yeah. Give that man a round of applause
8:46
for real. We walking up the line real
8:48
quick and we ain't even getting into the
8:50
nuances of it all, but one of the big
8:52
things you did um at Showtime Sports was
8:55
you brokered a deal with Floyd
8:57
Mayweather
8:58
>> for six fights, I believe it was.
9:00
>> Whose idea was that? And then what were
9:04
you hoping as an outcome and what real
9:06
impact did that make that series?
9:08
>> Well, look at at at the time when I
9:09
started HBO was HBO Sports was it.
9:12
>> Yeah. you know, boxing and otherwise,
9:14
they were the gold standard. And being
9:16
completely honest, Showtime was, you
9:18
know, number two and probably a little
9:19
distant number two.
9:20
>> Yeah.
9:21
>> So, I said, "Look, I gave up my career
9:23
as an attorney. I decided to move across
9:26
country. I never lived in New York City
9:27
before. Like, I'm not going to I didn't
9:30
do this to not compete."
9:32
>> So, I said, "Look, let me make the
9:34
biggest splash I can. What What can I do
9:36
to change the trajectory of what's going
9:38
on here?" And look, it's Floyd, you
9:41
know, he's he's he he did that. So, I
9:44
chased him. First time I didn't get it.
9:47
>> Yeah.
9:47
>> You know, I I chased him. I chased him.
9:49
He decided to fight Cotto on HBO.
9:52
>> Mhm.
9:52
>> Then I went after him a year later and I
9:55
signed it and that sent the message to
9:57
everybody, we're not playing around no
9:58
more.
9:58
>> Yeah.
9:59
>> You know, and and that's where it was
10:00
and it changed the way the network was
10:03
was was really perceived.
10:05
>> Yeah. And you know, I think you know,
10:07
Floyd, it was changed the way Floyd was
10:10
perceived. You know, you you're around a
10:12
place so long sometimes they take you
10:14
for granted.
10:15
>> You've been at HBO for 12, 13 years. So,
10:18
he wanted a fresh start,
10:20
>> you know, and together. And I think at
10:21
that point HBO had sort of said to him,
10:24
you know, go ahead.
10:25
>> I think they publicly said, you know,
10:26
we're not sure he has any good fights
10:28
left.
10:29
>> And they did say that.
10:30
>> Wow.
10:31
>> And then you booked six of them and they
10:33
were all, in my opinion,
10:34
>> Oh, yeah. No, they they laughed at me.
10:35
Everyone was like, "You're going to lose
10:36
a ton of money. He's never going to
10:38
fight twice a year. You know, he's just
10:40
going to, you know, cash his checks and
10:41
fight nobody."
10:42
>> Yeah.
10:43
>> You know, second second fight was versus
10:45
Canelo.
10:46
>> Uhhuh.
10:46
>> You know, the fifth fight was against
10:49
Pacquiao,
10:50
>> you know, and then I got a bonus fight
10:52
against against McGregor.
10:53
>> Yeah. And you did all of those fights.
10:56
Which fight profit? Which fight grossed
10:58
the most out of those three?
11:00
>> The Pacquiao fight. Pacquiao fight
11:02
grossed in in that three hours about
11:05
$600 million.
11:06
>> Oh my god. 600,
11:07
>> you know. So you you think about it like
11:09
for a a Marvel movie or something like
11:12
that, you know, that's a that's a
11:13
fantastic number, but that takes what?
11:15
Three, four, five, six weeks.
11:17
>> Yeah.
11:18
>> This is a 4-hour event which in that
11:21
little span of time generated $600
11:23
million. So, what what do the boxers
11:26
actually get from that 600? Like, is it
11:29
a percentage? What is the the the
11:31
blueprint for that kind of payout?
11:34
>> So, every deal is a little bit
11:35
different, but in in that one, there's a
11:37
percentage split between Floyd and and
11:40
Pacquiao. So, on that one, the vast
11:42
majority of the money is going to the
11:44
fighters. That's one thing that's
11:45
different about boxing business from
11:47
other combat sports. So, you know,
11:49
obviously there's expenses off the top,
11:51
the production, the marketing, and all
11:52
that, but after that, it's a split. And
11:55
and look, I don't want to get into too
11:57
much of Floyd's business, but I I'll
11:59
I'll just say this. On the Monday after
12:02
they fight, we wired him in advance, and
12:06
the advance was $100 million.
12:08
>> Yo, me and Horus always wonder if the
12:10
money's real.
12:11
>> I always thought if the money was real.
12:13
>> Yeah. And it's I probably have a picture
12:15
in my phone, you know, at some point of,
12:17
you know, the the check request I had to
12:19
sign because someone came to me and it's
12:21
probably the only time this is going to
12:22
happen in my career. Someone comes to me
12:24
with a nine figure check and says, we
12:27
need your signature in order to release
12:28
this.
12:29
>> Wow.
12:30
>> You know, and that's when it set in.
12:31
It's like, wow, we're we're at a
12:32
different level.
12:33
>> Yeah, man. Steve Espinosa is here, man.
12:35
You can ask him anything. 888742
12:38
3345. Horus, you want to jump in?
12:41
>> Oh, man. Steve, I know you out here
12:42
because of the biggest fight that's
12:43
going they they say it's the biggest
12:45
fight in boxing. What's your prediction
12:47
for the fight?
12:49
>> Damn, horse.
12:50
>> He went you went you went straight here.
12:52
Look, I we were talking about this
12:55
before like one one of the great things
12:57
about sports is cultural rivalries, you
13:00
know, and some of the biggest fights
13:01
like boxing is not shy about leaning
13:03
into,
13:04
>> you know, black versus white, black
13:06
versus Latino,
13:07
>> you know, and and it it does. Now, I've
13:10
yet to and I don't know who you guys are
13:12
picking. I know who is picking. Um, but
13:16
I would say 99.9% it breaks down on
13:19
ethnicity.
13:21
>> Damn. So, I'm picking Crawford, but not
13:23
because of that.
13:23
>> I know. I know. I know. It's weird. And
13:26
I'm picking I'm picking Canelo. I'm
13:27
Mexican-American. I'm picking Canelo.
13:29
>> Well, you're doing that on purpose.
13:33
>> It is. I I think what it says is it's a
13:36
it's it's really a tossup fight.
13:38
>> Yeah.
13:38
>> Yeah. It's 50-50. And then so a lot of
13:40
people are going like who they feel a
13:42
connection with, you know, and look,
13:43
there's there's Mexican fans who are
13:45
going for Crawford. There's black fans
13:47
who are going for Canelo. It it's not
13:48
that simple. But that's one of the fun
13:50
things about the sport.
13:52
>> Yeah.
13:52
>> Is like here, you know, you've got the
13:54
two the two groups which are the biggest
13:56
supporters of the sport, Latinos and
13:59
blacks.
13:59
>> Uhhuh.
14:00
>> You know, and it's a friendly rivalry.
14:02
It's a great atmosphere. It's a lot of
14:03
trash talking. And it's it's one of the
14:06
the most interesting and fun things
14:08
about the sport.
14:09
>> Why why Canelo though? You've seen them
14:11
both fight up close.
14:13
>> Look, you you can't like I I sort of
14:15
feel like Canelo um Canelo has a a
14:19
slightly stronger resume. You know, he's
14:21
he's been in there with Floyd, he's been
14:23
there with Triple G three times. He been
14:25
there with Bivo. He's more comfortable
14:27
with the weight. like I I just think his
14:29
his toolkit is slightly better than
14:33
Crawford's. Um having said that, it's
14:36
like Crawford has a longer reach. I
14:38
think it's going to be a very technical
14:39
fight. I think it's going to be the
14:42
slimmest of margins. It's going to be a
14:44
lot of people arguing about the results
14:46
after the fight.
14:47
>> Steve Espinosa is here. Bridge business.
14:49
Man, Steve, you know, I got so many
14:51
questions to ask you about boxing,
14:52
Steve. I mean, you sitting here. Why not
14:55
David Benvdz? Why Crawford?
14:58
Well, you know, they both at 168. This
15:00
the, you know, two Mexicans that's come
15:02
to a fight. I mean, I think that would
15:04
for me on paper, it seemed like that
15:06
would have been a bigger fight than
15:07
Crawford than in Canelo.
15:09
Look, at the end of the day, Canelo runs
15:11
his own business, you know, and he's
15:12
made it clear, you know, for whatever
15:14
reason, he's not interested in David
15:16
Benoviz right now. Now, knowing Canelo,
15:19
Canelo has never run away from a
15:20
challenge, not his entire career. In
15:21
fact, he's taken a bunch of fights that
15:23
people said don't take. So, I'm not
15:25
gonna I'm not going to say it's never
15:27
going to happen. I know that they're a
15:28
different weight class, but I know
15:30
Canelo and Canelo likes challenges. He's
15:32
all about legacy. So, I still hold hope
15:35
that that could happen.
15:36
>> What was the fight that they told him
15:37
not to take? Floyd?
15:38
>> Um, they told him he was too young for
15:40
Floyd. You know, remember, you know,
15:42
you're you're you're a guy who whose
15:44
ball is a sport. They told him not to
15:46
fight Eris Landara.
15:47
>> They told him not to fight Austin Trout
15:49
when he fought him in the Garden. Those
15:51
are guys nobody wanted to fight. And he
15:53
was like, you know, those are guys like
15:55
he was fighting Lara before Floyd.
15:57
People are like, you might get the the
15:58
Mayweather fight. Where are you gonna
15:59
fight this Cuban guy who's tough to
16:01
fight?
16:02
>> He took it anyway, man. Man, Stephen uh
16:05
Steve Espinosa is here, our good friend.
16:07
Listen, we started Bridge Business um
16:10
podcast where we just focused on on
16:12
boxing. And what year, horse?
16:14
>> Maybe 2019.
16:15
>> 2019. And every fight that horse and I
16:18
people will see us on TV, see us right
16:20
on the rings, man. You know, they
16:22
thought it we had something to do with
16:24
it. Every fight that we got tickets for.
16:26
>> Yeah.
16:27
>> My brother Steve Espos and I used to
16:29
have the hardest time calling you for
16:31
tickets. Remember that?
16:32
>> I I you know, I know I I know what it
16:34
is. I don't like asking people for
16:36
favors either.
16:37
>> You know, even somebody I known, you
16:39
know, long. Yeah. That long.
16:41
>> You like to say the number, I guess.
16:42
>> No, no, no. I'm not. That's exposing
16:45
That's exposing how old we both are.
16:46
>> Oh, yeah. Right.
16:47
>> Um, so no, I mean, but you know, with
16:50
you like No, not at all. Especially like
16:52
never I never hesitate when somebody's a
16:54
true fan like you guys, you know, who
16:56
show up early, you know, not just there
16:58
to put the Instagram post that I'm in
17:00
the main event and then walking out. You
17:01
guys are there early. Absolutely. Happy
17:03
happy to do that.
17:04
>> All right, man. I want to ask you about
17:06
the current state of boxing, you know,
17:08
with the chic who has entered the scene
17:10
and let me say it correctly, Turk
17:12
Alashik. And um when he entered the
17:16
scene, it seemed like the face, the
17:18
format, the the the programming of
17:21
boxing all changed. You got celebrity
17:25
fights almost. Uh uh Jake Paul came up
17:28
onto the scene. You you seeing these
17:30
really interesting matchups and it
17:32
seemed like it's really just about some
17:34
people say is it just about the money?
17:36
Is this hurting what we've seen in
17:38
boxing as as a traditional, you know,
17:40
sport? What are your thoughts of his
17:42
involvement? And now recently I
17:44
understand that you know even with
17:46
Netflix you know and Amazon being a part
17:49
of boxing now what what do you see the
17:51
effect of Turk Allesic has been on
17:53
boxing?
17:55
>> Look to be to be fair I I think the
17:57
juryy's still out.
17:59
>> You know he is he's obviously put a lot
18:01
of money into the sport. He's made some
18:02
fights happen that probably wouldn't
18:03
have happened otherwise. Um so but the
18:07
plan isn't really obvious. It's still
18:09
very in transition. the sport as a whole
18:11
is very much in transition. You know, it
18:13
used to be you could turn on ESPN, HBO,
18:16
and Showtime and find boxing.
18:19
>> You know, now none of those three
18:20
networks are currently in the sport,
18:21
>> right?
18:22
>> So, you've got different people coming
18:24
into the sport in terms of backing it.
18:26
You've got, you know, the TKO group, you
18:28
know, Dana Whites group
18:30
>> also coming into the sport. So, it's a
18:32
it's a period of transition. Um, and it
18:35
has been chaotic. It has been different.
18:37
there hasn't been a whole lot of rhythm
18:39
and consistency and predictability about
18:41
to what fights are happening and what
18:43
they're happening when. Um, but having
18:45
said that, it's never a bad thing to
18:46
have somebody with deep pockets in the
18:48
sport.
18:49
>> Um, but I I'm not sure what the strategy
18:52
and the plan is because it is it's a
18:55
little bit random at this point.
18:56
>> Uhhuh.
18:57
>> And and the other thing that I'm
18:59
concerned about is the lower the lower
19:02
and the middle tier of fights, those
19:04
aren't happening as much.
19:05
>> Yeah. M
19:06
>> so okay it's great we've got these these
19:09
star headline fights but who's building
19:11
the next set of of people who are going
19:14
to be headlining fights in five or 10
19:16
years you know and that that quite
19:18
hasn't happened yet maybe that's going
19:19
to be Dana White's group maybe it's
19:21
going to be you know Turkeykey's group
19:23
it's it's a little bit chaotic it's a
19:26
little uncertain right now it's
19:27
definitely
19:29
you know it it definitely is still in
19:31
development at this point
19:33
>> why why did um
19:35
Showtime sports. Why did it end? Um
19:39
largely it was um it was a budget
19:41
decision about priorities. Um you know
19:43
like a lot of the traditional media
19:45
companies um you know in particular
19:48
Paramount Paramount had you know 13
19:51
different cable channels. Nobody's
19:52
watching cable anymore.
19:53
>> Mhm.
19:53
>> You know you can you remember what MTV
19:56
was in the heyday?
19:57
>> Yeah. I was there,
19:58
>> you know, you were part of it.
20:00
>> And it now it's ridiculousness,
20:03
>> you know, 24 hours a day,
20:05
>> you know, and then some days it's
20:07
catfish, which I love, which I'll watch
20:09
that all day.
20:10
>> Jersey Shore, you got to remember family
20:11
reunion.
20:12
>> That's right. So,
20:14
>> so their business was challenged. So, as
20:16
a matter of fact, it's just an issue of
20:18
budget cutting, you know, and they
20:20
started just cutting, cutting, cutting,
20:22
and then decided one day at Showtime,
20:25
look, we don't need, you know, comedy
20:27
specials, we don't music specials, we
20:29
don't need any sports,
20:30
>> you know, and started, you know, cutting
20:32
back because they're under such
20:33
financial pressure,
20:35
>> you know, and that's that's essentially,
20:36
I mean, you look at, you know, at Warner
20:39
Brothers, you know, their media, they
20:41
lost the NBA. It was a financial
20:43
decision
20:44
>> going to Amazon. So there's a lot of
20:47
upheaval and that's part of the upheaval
20:49
in the sport is the business is
20:51
changing.
20:52
>> Steve Espinosa is here man. Give this
20:54
man a round of applause.
20:56
>> You are advising PBC now, right? Am I
20:59
mistaken?
21:00
>> No, that's right.
21:00
>> And that's the legendary iconic one. Al
21:03
Haymon.
21:04
>> Yeah.
21:05
>> Right.
21:05
>> Who I know from promoting concerts in
21:08
the Bay.
21:08
>> The Budweiser Super Budweiser Super
21:11
Festival.
21:11
>> Yeah. Working on Kel. Yeah, if you're
21:14
you're you're a certain age and probably
21:16
most of people even in this room, you've
21:18
been to an Alc Heyman show at some
21:19
point.
21:20
>> Yeah, at some point.
21:21
>> He's the most mysterious person in
21:23
boxing. You've seen him before.
21:26
>> I've seen him. I've had meals with him.
21:27
I've had lunch with him and dinner with
21:29
him.
21:30
>> All right. So, he just didn't hire you
21:31
on, you know. So, uh, where does PBC
21:34
now? The PBC is being, you know, it's at
21:37
one point it felt like it was it had a
21:39
cornerstone on boxing and boxers and now
21:42
you got all these new, you know,
21:44
contingencies that are rising up. What
21:46
is PBC's plan moving forward?
21:48
>> PBC is with Amazon Prime Video. Okay.
21:50
And look, and and they're adjusting.
21:52
They've got to continue to build stars.
21:54
You know, the reality is, you know, and
21:57
this is one of the challenges, you know,
21:59
you're building stars, you're building
22:00
guys. all of a sudden with one phone
22:02
call they get offered a big check over
22:04
in Saudi and they're gone
22:07
>> you know and you know that's happened
22:09
you know Shakur you know is you know
22:12
doing business out there there's other
22:14
guys David Benvitz is doing a fight out
22:16
there so it does throw some uncertainty
22:19
you know from a fan perspective
22:21
>> yeah sure like they're throwing money
22:23
and making fights happen but at the same
22:24
time
22:25
>> it it creates uncertainty for the
22:27
promoter because all of a sudden you had
22:29
a star like Shakur or David Venovas and
22:31
then they get offered four or five times
22:34
what they usually make by the Saudis and
22:37
they're gone which no one can blame
22:38
them.
22:39
>> Yeah.
22:39
>> Like it's a it's a it's a tough
22:41
provision. You got to take what you can
22:43
get when you can get it.
22:45
>> But then that just is a challenge for
22:47
the promoter business.
22:49
>> Uhhuh.
22:50
>> Because does championship boxing still
22:52
exist? Like the belts hold having a belt
22:54
does that even like make sense? It's
22:56
like, can you have a WBC, WBO and not
22:59
make the money that these guys are
23:01
making that a even champions?
23:04
I mean, look, the the reality is
23:08
everyone sort of has said there's too
23:09
many belts. There's too many belts, you
23:11
know, but then new people come into the
23:13
sport and what's the first thing they
23:14
do? They start creating their own belt.
23:16
I want to do my own belt. None of the
23:17
other ones are legitimate.
23:19
>> You know, this, you know, I don't trust
23:21
those guys. I'm going to do my own belt.
23:22
So now we're we're headed toward having
23:25
more belts rather than others. And and
23:27
and by the way, I don't think it's
23:29
necessarily a bad thing. I I have
23:31
nothing but respect for champions, but
23:33
the reality is there's a lot of guys who
23:35
don't have belts and don't have
23:36
champions, which are the biggest
23:38
stylists in the sport.
23:39
>> Yes.
23:40
>> You know, there was times when Oscar de
23:41
Hoy didn't always have a belt. It didn't
23:43
matter,
23:44
>> right?
23:44
>> You know, it didn't matter. Now, having
23:47
said that, you can't tell a fighter that
23:49
because that's that's their legacy.
23:51
That's history. But at the at the same
23:53
time, you know, yeah, you can you can
23:56
look at it and we can get to like the
23:58
celebrity fights and all that stuff.
24:00
It's it's different. But yeah, the
24:03
reality is no one really knows what a
24:05
belt is worth right now because if
24:07
anything, there's becoming more and more
24:08
of them.
24:09
>> So the ranked fighters like cuz you know
24:10
you got the top 10 ranked fighters. So
24:12
the ranking is often also because
24:14
usually the rank is supposed to move
24:16
around like you know far as like the
24:17
number one ranked contender supposed to
24:19
fight you know the you know top five
24:21
that doesn't exist because of that right
24:23
to me.
24:24
>> Well well part of it and and that's
24:25
another situation the rankings and you
24:28
not to get too deep into it but the the
24:30
rankings some of them are now controlled
24:32
by the same people promoting the fights.
24:35
>> Oh
24:36
>> so you know
24:38
>> is that not corruption?
24:39
>> Yeah they do that in radio. Yeah.
24:42
So, you know, so it used to be like,
24:45
hey, that's your path. You could move up
24:48
the rankings and even if you had a small
24:49
promoter, you didn't have a lot of
24:51
power. If you got to the number one
24:52
position, you know, you'd have a good
24:54
shot at getting that championship fight.
24:56
At least there was a process there. If
24:58
you're now your promoter, the promoter
25:00
of your organization controls the
25:02
rankings,
25:03
>> then the question is, okay, are they
25:05
going to rank the people who are best
25:07
for their business? Are they ranking the
25:09
people who are the best, most skilled
25:11
boxers who depend that?
25:13
>> So, you know, there's always, you know,
25:15
there's always this thing about the best
25:17
throwing the best. The best fight the
25:18
best in the UFC. Do they fight in
25:20
boxing? Well, it's easy to say that,
25:22
hey, the UFC always has one versus two,
25:25
which they don't. But let's just assume
25:26
that for a minute. Well, when you
25:28
control the rankings and you can put one
25:31
and two together, then you can say, "Oh,
25:32
look, one and two are together." Well,
25:34
you just made those guys one and two a
25:36
couple weeks ago. M
25:37
>> so it's it's in your own control to say
25:40
the best are fighting the best. And
25:41
sometimes you look at those rankings, a
25:43
lot of those rankings, they're rankings
25:45
about who is best as a marketer.
25:48
>> Uhhuh.
25:49
>> Who is a best seller of pay-per-views,
25:51
who's a best seller of tickets, as
25:53
opposed to who really deserves it from a
25:54
skill perspective. Steve Espinosa is
25:56
here. I'm going to go to the phone call.
25:58
2887423345.
26:00
We going to go to song, but when we come
26:02
back, Steve, I'm about to put you to
26:04
work, man. You're about to co-host this
26:06
with us, man. Man, let's do it
26:07
>> because we got the three division uh
26:10
champ of the world. What is it? Light
26:12
wait featherweight, super featherweight,
26:14
and lightweight champ.
26:15
>> Wow.
26:15
>> The one and only Shakur Stevenson is I
26:18
want to bring him in. Where is he from?
26:19
Sway.
26:20
>> He's from planet Earth. All right.
26:22
>> Oh, the hat Jersey in the building. We
26:25
gonna bring and you can help us
26:27
interview him. Is that all right?
26:28
Absolutely. All right. The core speed to
26:30
send us up
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