Up next in 10
Don’t miss this exclusive Sway In The Morning interview with Coodie Simmons as he shares untold stories about documenting Kanye West’s rise to fame through the critically acclaimed "jeen-yuhs" documentary. From his early days in Chicago to creating the legendary Creative Control production company with Chike, Coodie reveals the behind-the-scenes moments that shaped hip-hop history. Dive into his journey of preserving cultural icons, his passion for art investment, and an exciting look at the upcoming Ernie Barnes documentary.
Why does Coodie always have a camera in hand? How did he turn decades of footage into award-winning projects? And what surprising role did faith, friendship, and even dominoes play in his success? Find out all this and more in this powerful, authentic conversation.
Subscribe now and stay tuned for more exclusive interviews, groundbreaking stories, and cultural insights only on Sway’s Universe. #Coodie #Kanye #jeenyuhs #SwayInTheMorning #CreativeControl #ErnieBarnes #ExclusiveInterviews
#kanyewest #celebritynews #blackartinamerica #art #protestart
#blackskinheadkanyewest #documentaryediting #kanyewest #documentary #documentaries
CHAPTERS:
00:00 - Introduction to Coodie Simmons
00:50 - Coodie & Chike: Creative Control Insights
03:20 - Key Milestone Moments in Art
05:40 - Ernie Barnes: Artistic Legacy
08:15 - Investing in Art: Tips & Strategies
11:48 - What Would We See: Artistic Vision
15:22 - How to Connect with Coodie Rock
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0:00
We mentioned Norans, right? And if you
0:03
mention New Orleans and some of the
0:04
pillars that have come from there, it's
0:07
important because we have a special
0:09
guest with us today that you mention his
0:11
partner who was actually from there,
0:13
born there, now went back there, lives
0:15
there, just bought property there. I'm
0:17
talking about Ch.
0:19
All right. And
0:22
OA, you see how I made that tie, right?
0:25
You see how I made that tie? All right.
0:28
Okay. You cannot mention the name CHK
0:30
without mentioning the name Cy Cudy
0:33
Simmons. Who's originally? Where you
0:34
from? The Carolina
0:36
originally.
0:37
No, no. Well, my my father's from South
0:40
Carolina.
0:40
Okay.
0:41
I'm Chicago.
0:42
Okay. All right. All right. Just making
0:44
just to get the clarity.
0:45
Yes, sir.
0:45
Okay. Just getting the clarity. Cooty
0:47
Simmons is here, man. From Cooty and
0:49
Cheek. Creative control. one of the most
0:52
influ influential production, film,
0:55
screenwriter, company that the culture
0:58
has ever seen.
0:59
They don't get out there on the on the
1:01
boulevard and flash their fancy change.
1:04
What they do is they let their work
1:06
speak for for for itself. Whether it's
1:08
the Benji 30 for30, right? Whether it's
1:11
the Genius
1:13
documentary with Kanye Cudy and Chur
1:16
Ernie Barnes documentary. Uh just came
1:19
back from Cans Film Festival. not too
1:21
long ago
1:23
and had an event there. I want to
1:24
welcome Cooty Simmons here from Cooty
1:27
and Chica Creative Control. Give him a
1:29
round of applause.
1:30
Tracy, what up Mike Muse?
1:32
What up, my guy? How are you?
1:34
That's my buddy, man. I'm so happy to
1:37
see you and that you're on today, man.
1:40
Oh, man. I'm happy to be on. I thought I
1:42
was coming up here to play some dominoes
1:43
with with Sway.
1:44
Is that why you thought you were coming
1:45
in?
1:45
Yeah. Come on. Sway been dodging me
1:47
since I've been in LA.
1:49
Dodging you?
1:49
Oh, come on, man. I'm sitting there
1:51
trying to
1:52
I did that for Kenny Cool.
1:55
Come on, man. I'm sitting here trying to
1:56
big up this dude cuz I messed up one
1:58
time and now you sitting there
2:00
threatening me with dominoes, man.
2:02
Are you kidding me?
2:04
Hold up, man. Let me do some business
2:06
before I before I even indulge this
2:08
frivolous conversation. Um
2:11
Cody is here. That's a good friend of
2:13
mine. Not only that, uh we work
2:14
together. I'm a supporter and advocate
2:17
of everything that Creative Control does
2:19
and vice versa. Uh we often build
2:22
together. We fellowship together. We do
2:23
play dominoes. We created a league along
2:26
with Kenny Coup and and Chance, Citizen
2:28
Chance, called uh the Dominology League
2:30
and and we're developing an app around
2:33
dominoes and it's to bring folks
2:35
together. And one of the things that
2:37
uh Cody has always done, even when we're
2:39
playing dominoes, he documents every
2:42
single moment. And people wonder, well,
2:45
why do you always have a camera, right?
2:47
Except for this morning, but why do you
2:49
always
2:49
Hey, let me get it out.
2:51
You ain't got to, why do you always have
2:53
a camera? And so that camera led to him,
2:56
you know, over decades of footage that
2:58
say, for example, that he followed um
3:00
Yay around with ended up being an
3:02
awardwinning documentary that's easily
3:06
the best one we ever seen in my opinion
3:09
surrounding the rise of uh Kanye West,
3:11
right? um now known as Yay and uh he
3:15
came by today man. I just kind of wanted
3:16
to celebrate him and creative control a
3:18
little bit. So give him a round of
3:20
applause. Kud
3:22
what would you say for you and Ch have
3:25
been probably the most milestone moment
3:28
you've had in in the works that you put
3:30
together.
3:30
Milestone I I I would say genius, you
3:33
know. Okay. That was uh 21 years in the
3:36
making. So it was like,
3:38
you know, took me forever to do. And
3:40
then me meeting Chica off of you know uh
3:42
MT matter of fact all y'all was at MTV
3:45
you here first with Yay
3:47
and that you know we've been partners
3:49
ever since. So there
3:51
that was um a total like
3:54
I guess milestone but this Ernie Barnes
3:56
though is like
3:57
next level. We thought that that J was a
4:00
unicorn. Ernie Barnes is the unicorn.
4:02
It's the unicorn and shout out to
4:04
Whitney Galbenta and Yasmin Rich
4:06
Richards who were very big advocates of
4:08
that. you hear it first
4:10
along alongside of us with with Kanye
4:12
Ernie Barnes for those who don't know
4:15
Citizens. Yeah, Ernie Barnes is um well
4:18
a lot of people when you think of Ernie
4:20
Barnes you might think of the Payton
4:21
from Good Times or you might think of
4:23
Marvin Gay I want you album cover
4:26
but he was more than that you know a lot
4:28
of people don't know actually the title
4:30
is who is Ernie Barnes
4:32
so it uh so that just alone tell you
4:34
what it is but he was a professional NFL
4:37
football player um he was the uh the
4:41
artist for the Olympics in 1984 the
4:43
first black official artist for the
4:44
Olympics
4:45
84. He uh
4:47
did so much so much iconic, you know.
4:50
And his uh the pain of sugar sack
4:52
just auctioned off. They estimated 150
4:56
to 200,000 max to to you know they
4:59
thought that was going to be but it it
5:00
went for 15 million.
5:02
15 millions.
5:03
15 amps. And then you got Eddie Murphy
5:05
who owns the second one.
5:06
Uh-huh.
5:07
So Eddie Murphy owns the first one that
5:09
he ever did
5:10
and it's called and it's called what?
5:11
The Sugar Shack.
5:12
Okay. All right. And Eddie Murphy owns
5:14
the second one.
5:15
Eddie Murphy owns the first one. So So
5:17
him and Marvin Gay was playing
5:19
basketball and after the after the game
5:21
he showed Marvin like Marvin I did this
5:23
painting. Marvin was like, "Let me take
5:24
it. Let me show Barry took it over to
5:26
Barry." He said, "He ain't talked to
5:28
Marvin in like months." So then he was
5:30
like, so he started the new one. And
5:32
then when he finally uh talked to Barry
5:34
Gordy, Barry Gordy offered him a deal he
5:36
couldn't refuse. And that's how it got
5:39
on Marvin. And that's the other one was
5:41
on Good Times.
5:42
Wow. Yeah.
5:43
Is that how that got on that Marvin Gay
5:45
album,
5:45
right?
5:46
Yeah.
5:46
Barry Gordy, um, uh, founder of Mottown
5:49
Records, Tama, a bunch of subsidiaries
5:52
as well. One of my favorite heroes that
5:54
ever come out of the music industry.
5:56
And Ernie Barnes, you know, I think too,
5:59
Mike, if maybe you could speak to just
6:00
black artists in general and and and how
6:03
we've impacted the art world and in many
6:06
cases have been overlooked in the art
6:08
world.
6:10
Absolutely right. Um, I think what Cudy
6:12
and Ch are highlighting is that. But I
6:14
think that's the genius, no pun
6:16
intended, of Cudy and Ch is how much
6:18
they really amplify such cultural
6:20
moments of us. I think the Benji story
6:22
for me, I still talk about it often and
6:24
how it reshaped my mind about recidivism
6:27
in prison and how our justice system
6:30
just isn't just in in the way that you
6:32
can go in a a incredible human being and
6:35
then become hardened once you're in
6:37
prison uh by Benji's associate. just
6:39
thank you uh Cooty um for what you and
6:42
Ch do and and being such a a great human
6:44
being and a good friend. So just want to
6:47
say I love you on that one.
6:48
Thank you Mike.
6:48
Uh but I think the way to your your
6:50
point in your question is absolutely
6:52
right. Uh a lot of black artists, you
6:54
know, have gotten have not gotten their
6:55
due. Um we're starting to see the
6:57
moments now um where a lot of younger
7:00
artists are having a really big moment
7:02
like Lauren Hley um Hley um she's having
7:05
an incredible moment right now and you
7:07
are starting to see black art uh get
7:09
into the auction space and I think Cody
7:12
is that's what he's addressing right now
7:13
with the Ernie Barnes thing and way the
7:15
more we're able to have our art get
7:17
auctioned off at Christies and Southern
7:19
Bees um the more um the profile will
7:23
raise but also to the value of the art
7:26
too will also be raised as well. A
7:28
record was broken. I cannot believe I'm
7:30
slipping on this guy's name, but he's
7:32
literally is my favorite artist of all
7:34
time.
7:35
Chicago Man Cudi. Uh the one who did the
7:37
painting that went for like 100 mil. I
7:39
think diddy purchased it 75. Oh my god,
7:42
I'm looking right at his face.
7:43
Oh, I forget his name.
7:45
Anyways, I'll Google it and come back.
7:46
Look that up, Lonnie. Yeah. Um it's my
7:48
favorite painting of all time. But
7:50
anyways, to your point,
7:51
not Jacob Lawrence.
7:52
Not Jacob Lawrence. We're getting close
7:53
though. He's still alive. Uh but the
7:55
point sway is that was the highest
7:57
auction item for a black artist and he's
8:00
still alive which is great because most
8:03
of the times those paintings their value
8:05
doesn't rise until they're gone.
8:07
Um and so he is able to see the fruit of
8:09
his of his labor now which is great. Let
8:11
me look up his name. Sorry.
8:13
Thank you Mike. Thank you. Look that up
8:15
Mike. I'm curious of that name. And and
8:17
then um is it uh I want you to really
8:20
can you talk to to to some extent about
8:24
investment you know investing in
8:25
paintings when you go to
8:27
what I CY has become a investor in art
8:31
right and you have a beautiful
8:33
collection
8:34
of art um um I even added to it. Did you
8:38
get the picture?
8:39
Which one?
8:40
Okay. All right.
8:42
Group chat.
8:43
I know. But I do I do got one for you.
8:46
old cassette of yours that you decide
8:48
that that's part of the collection.
8:49
That's art, right? Okay. With a lot of
8:52
value if it's a cassette of mine. Um,
8:54
but can you talk about that as an
8:56
investor? How what what you know, what
8:58
have you learned about investing in art
9:00
and how has it paid off?
9:01
I mean, it's it's tripped up because
9:03
it's it's like you get what you like.
9:05
You know what I mean? So, like God just
9:07
blessed me to like first meet Ernie
9:09
Barnes first. You know what I'm saying?
9:11
I used to dream about having his
9:12
paintings, but I called them JJ
9:14
paintings.
9:14
Yeah. From good times. good times. I but
9:16
I used to be like I'm going have a house
9:17
like this, paintings like this, a wife
9:20
like you know you dreaming but
9:22
but when it come to art u it's like
9:25
I just start we just start meeting
9:26
artists like we met uh Derek for young
9:29
Derek for
9:31
and Chica was like we got to get a
9:32
piece. We did a documentary about um the
9:34
first African-American to play in the
9:36
NBA. You know who that is?
9:38
Who is that?
9:38
Earl
9:41
like that be done but Earl Lloyd was the
9:44
first. So, we did a doc on Earl Lloyd,
9:46
which we haven't put out yet, but we
9:48
will. But we had Derek Forjo in 2016 due
9:51
to like the cover, like the the artwork.
9:55
And um but now he's he blew up. So, we
9:57
got this huge Derek Forroid painting for
10:00
like I guess little or nothing in
10:02
consideration of what he's selling now
10:04
for. But that was like one of the
10:06
pieces. And this like I just kept
10:08
meeting Sylvia Meyers and you know Alvin
10:11
Armstrong, everybody who I meet and I
10:13
film them, you know. how I do. So, I'm
10:15
filming them and then I get a piece
10:17
early and then all they pieces, you
10:19
know, started like going up and
10:22
that's um that's the start. But like
10:23
Swiss say, you got to get get what you
10:25
like, you know.
10:26
Um
10:27
Swiss Beats,
10:27
man. Yeah. Swiss Beats. Yeah. Get what
10:30
you like and and you know, don't that's
10:32
how you That's how I think you should
10:34
collect.
10:34
That's how you should collect. Are there
10:36
any benefits to it tax-wise?
10:38
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, um, I guess I
10:44
You want to go?
10:45
I like I would like to speak on taxes
10:46
and stuff.
10:49
He was about to go in, Mike, and he
10:51
pulled out. Go ahead, Mike. Mike know.
10:54
Mike know.
10:56
Um, no. It would be taxed like an asset
10:58
just like any other asset. Once you sell
11:01
it um and once you buy it, you're buying
11:03
it as any other uh investment. But I
11:05
want to correct the record that I found
11:06
the artist uh Cudy Enu. It's Carrie
11:09
James Marshall. That was the in and the
11:13
painting sold for 21.1 million. And I
11:15
want to correct the record because way
11:16
you know I'm big on data.
11:18
It wasn't the most expensive painting by
11:21
a black artist. It was the most
11:22
expensive painting by a living black
11:25
artist that went for 21.1 million. The
11:28
most expensive
11:30
um painting for a black artist goes to
11:32
uh Ba Bosat and that was sold for 110.5
11:36
million um in 2020 in 17. Yeah.
11:40
Okay. Trace, you want to um add to this?
11:43
Um, yes. I want to add to the
11:45
conversation, but I want to do a little
11:47
bit of a of a pivot because when I think
11:50
about art, um, not only is it like what
11:53
we hang in our walls or what can be
11:54
considered a sculpture and all these
11:56
different mediums, but I also think
11:58
about the art that is just art living
12:01
lives right now. And I don't you know
12:04
Cody like you're so well known for
12:07
capturing many many important people at
12:10
their most like raw and human form and I
12:13
just suddenly got curious about I don't
12:16
know if your younger self was followed
12:18
around with a camera which you do right
12:21
now in your adult self like what would
12:23
we see around the life of a young
12:28
cootie? like what would surprise us
12:30
about the makings of who we love and
12:33
revere so much today,
12:35
right? I mean, well, I was actually in
12:38
front of the camera my early early start
12:40
of my career um doing standup comedy,
12:43
right?
12:43
And then I used to host uh channel zero.
12:46
So,
12:46
but like if you talking like early
12:49
Chicago days, like oh man,
12:52
it'll be like uh Boys in the Hood or
12:54
something.
12:54
Oh, really? you know, growing up in
12:57
Chicago with the with the gangs and all
12:59
the things that I seen and been through.
13:01
Um, I'm just blessed, man. God saved me
13:04
from a lot. You know,
13:05
you almost you almost you almost, huh?
13:07
Almost. I was telling Dion, um, I was
13:09
with Deion.
13:10
Dion Cole, the comedian who he came up
13:12
with.
13:12
Yeah. who is exe producing the Ernie
13:14
Barnes. But I was telling Dion uh how I
13:17
even got to New York cuz I got
13:19
carjacked,
13:20
you know, and but me and Dion was in
13:22
Miami that the weekend before I got
13:24
carjacked
13:25
and I we had the best footage ever.
13:27
We're talking about footage of Jay-Z and
13:29
uh JLo and everybody just kicking it.
13:32
Magic Johnson and uh and when I got
13:35
home, I got carjacked and I told Dion, I
13:37
said, "Dion, man, I just got carjacked,
13:40
man. They stole my chain, my car. They
13:42
they took the camera, all the footage
13:44
from Miami. He said, "All the footage."
13:46
That's all he said.
13:47
That's all he cared about. Didn't care
13:49
about your health, your wealth, your
13:51
wellbeing, nothing. I said, "Dude, they
13:53
bust me in the head. They did
13:54
everything." Was like, "So you ain't you
13:56
don't have none of the footage from me.
13:59
We was joking on it yesterday. That's
14:00
why I mentioned it. But, you know,
14:02
growing up in Chicago, it it definitely
14:04
you would see a lot of times like, you
14:06
know, I'm I'm I'm real deep in faith and
14:09
um and I always my mother told me that
14:12
Jesus was the son of God. So, I used to
14:14
kick it with Jesus and I like pray to
14:16
God, you know. So, Jesus was my homie.
14:18
So, the situations that I had like guns
14:21
to my head like this dude pulled a gun
14:23
to my head and pulled it off. It didn't
14:25
go off.
14:26
I was like, "Thank you, Jesus." You
14:27
know, just all the things. So that I
14:30
think you'll see a lot of a lot of um
14:33
Christ saving me, you know, through
14:35
through different thing and blessing me,
14:37
you know, even blessing me to meet Dion,
14:40
who I who I got early footage of,
14:43
you know, uh Yay, of course, you know
14:44
what I'm saying? Tequa, Mcklli, I just
14:47
got like I just documented so many
14:49
people. John Legend, you know, early
14:52
John I got a a full for sure genius on
14:55
John Legend.
14:56
Wow.
14:57
Yeah. like going in Sony nobody know who
15:00
John let you know just all of the same
15:02
same situation but um
15:04
but yeah I mean I guess through my
15:06
footage is like my eyes so I'm I'm there
15:10
to a lot of those things
15:11
man this man Cody Simmons get his man
15:13
Creative Control is the name of his
15:15
company along with my man Ch they got
15:18
Ernie Barnes documentary when is it
15:20
coming
15:21
uh we plan to um premiere 2026 that's
15:24
the goal we we pretty much finished with
15:26
the dot I interviewed his nephew Marcus
15:28
Gratney on this weekend. That's why I'm
15:31
here. And uh we're going to add him in.
15:33
But it's it's it's good. We got Debbie
15:35
Allen and Kareem Abdul Jabah, of course,
15:37
Swiss and
15:38
you know, but his collectors are like
15:40
from Sylvester Stallone to like,
15:43
you know, um Will Smith, you name them.
15:46
He collected Ari Barnes. We ain't get
15:48
Will.
15:49
You didn't get Will, you need his
15:50
number? I got Will's number.
15:51
Yeah, hit him up.
15:52
All right, let me hit him up, please.
15:53
Tell him I need
15:54
All right, cool. All right, great. Thank
15:56
you, man. I'mma do that. Cooty Hangout
15:57
Juvenile just arrived, so we going to
15:59
have him come up momentarily. Um, but
16:02
man, Cooty is here. How can people reach
16:05
you? Oh, man. Y'all can uh follow me on
16:07
Instagram at Cooty Rock. Uh, and um
16:11
Creative Control at Creative Control.
16:14
And we we're about to start Creative
16:16
Control.tv TV about to put that back
16:18
out, you know, that we had in 2009
16:22
to 12. We worked with Dame, but we we're
16:25
about to relaunch that. Not not with
16:27
Dame, but
16:28
you know,
16:29
would you ever consider working with
16:31
Dame again?
16:32
I love Dame. You know what I'm saying? I
16:34
learned so much from Dame and Dash, but
16:36
you know, I don't know. You know. Okay.
16:37
You never know.
16:38
You never know. All right, man. Thank
16:40
you, Cody. I appreciate you, man.
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