0:00
now when you look at going more of the
0:02
commercial and wholesale business
0:06
a lot more opportunity for volume and
0:09
volume level roasting so you are certain
0:12
you can certainly turn out a lot more
0:13
coffee you can drive a lot more Top Line
0:23
I'm Sean hessinger and this is small Biz
0:26
in 15. the show where we bring you small
0:28
business news and tips to make your
0:30
small business better today Brian
0:32
Abernathy owner and founder of grumpy
0:35
goat coffee talks to us about how to
0:37
launch a coffee roasting business Brian
0:40
let's start out by talking a little bit
0:42
about what exactly grumpy goat coffee is
0:44
first of all so grumpy go coffee is in
0:47
its most literal sense we are a coffee
0:49
roaster we are not a coffee shop we are
0:52
not a cafe or a deli we we simply roast
0:54
coffee right so we we bring all the
0:56
green green beans in from around the
0:58
world we focus on single origin Gourmet
1:01
grade and fully traceable coffee my
1:04
first question is I guess what is a
1:06
coffee roaster I realized that they
1:08
roast coffee but I mean can you explain
1:09
a little bit about the business like how
1:11
it separates how it's different from
1:12
other chronic coffee businesses so yeah
1:15
what makes us different is that we uh we
1:18
are sourcing the beans uh so so we are
1:21
roasting them here on site uh you know a
1:23
lot of coffee shops unless they're fully
1:25
vertical they're already buying their
1:27
beans roasted uh whether they're buying
1:30
them from a local roaster such as myself
1:31
or or some other company
1:34
whether it be a food a food purveyor or
1:37
other sources so we you know we identify
1:43
ourselves as Roasters because that
1:45
that's all we do there are some coffee
1:47
shops that actually roast in-house as
1:49
well and they're more vertical but we we
1:51
just stop the process at roasting our
1:54
Core Business is actually direct to
1:55
Consumer we do have some commercial
1:58
accounts but we really enjoy working
2:00
directly with our customers and putting
2:02
good coffee in their hands what do you
2:05
need to learn to know how to roast
2:06
coffee what kind of skills do you need
2:09
uh I guess I mean if you're not just
2:11
you're beyond just the business aspect
2:15
the technology and everything what kind
2:17
of training does a coffee roaster need
2:19
that that's a great question and that
2:21
can be answered a few different ways
2:22
there are training classes available uh
2:25
they're typically put on by The Roasting
2:27
The Roaster machine manufacturers uh but
2:31
what I like to tell people is roasting
2:33
coffee is uh very similar to cooking and
2:37
or to grilling for that matter now
2:40
specifically and technically what we're
2:41
doing during the roasting process is
2:44
caramelizing the starches within the
2:46
beans so since the beans carry about 18
2:48
moisture give or take origin the first
2:52
process is during the roasting process
2:54
is drying so you go through the drying
2:56
phase caramelization phase and then
2:59
identifying when you want to stop the
3:01
roasting process and that essentially is
3:04
your roast profile so when you think
3:07
about skills you can go and you can read
3:09
books or some great books about roasting
3:11
roasting methodologies and processes you
3:13
can certainly take classes as well but
3:16
like a lot of great chefs and a lot of
3:18
Great Cooks they're also self-taught
3:21
uh in my case I am self-taught I went up
3:24
to I got my roaster I have both of my
3:26
Roasters from Mill City Roasters out of
3:27
Minneapolis so I flew up to Minneapolis
3:30
I looked at their different Roasters we
3:32
actually spent about four or five hours
3:33
going through the roasting process for
3:36
me personally it the process resonated
3:39
so I understood it I understood what
3:40
we're trying to accomplish and
3:43
um you know from there on out it was
3:44
just you know continuing to to roast and
3:47
get better and deal with the different
3:48
variations as as they come with
3:51
different or uh Origins the other thing
3:53
I wanted to ask is coffee coffee
3:55
roasting we're talking about something
3:57
that that a process that you're doing to
4:00
the beans and there are people who have
4:02
home Roasters and they do it as a hobby
4:04
or whatever but how do you turn coffee
4:06
roasting into a business what what how
4:08
what kind of who are you selling to how
4:12
do you get it started as a you say well
4:14
I I'd love to roast coffee but I'd like
4:16
to turn it into a business what's the
4:18
process of that like Beyond just the
4:20
technical aspect of roasting the coffee
4:23
so that's a great question
4:25
um I can answer it specifically for me
4:27
and and how I approach the business
4:29
because you know coffee the coffee world
4:32
is a multi multi-multi-billion dollar
4:34
industry so one there's a lot of room
4:37
for a lot of different variations to
4:39
situate yourself within that industry um
4:42
in my case you know moving down here to
4:44
Southwest Florida uh back in 2013 there
4:48
was really no good coffee in the area a
4:50
lot of that was a result from the
4:52
financial crisis with a lot of small
4:54
businesses you know being shuttered from
4:57
2008 to you know really they didn't come
5:00
back until 2015 2016. so when I moved
5:02
down coming down from the Saint Paul
5:04
Minneapolis area I was used to a more
5:07
robust coffee scene with a lot more
5:10
um so in 2016 I realized I wanted to
5:14
bring good coffee to the area but I did
5:17
not want to run a coffee shop just as a
5:20
personal preference so I asked myself
5:21
well how can I do that and what I wanted
5:26
um kind of give some love back to a few
5:29
Roasters in Saint Paul that I loved
5:31
going to while they were small little
5:32
coffee shops they really were primarily
5:34
roasters so I wanted to bring I wanted
5:37
to bring the beans in I wanted to roast
5:39
it and then just get it into the hands
5:41
of fellow coffee Drinkers and fellow
5:43
coffee lovers so to answer your question
5:47
simplistically I identified what I felt
5:50
was a gap in the market
5:51
but I did that with a with just a
5:54
general desire and passion to bring
5:57
something to the area it wasn't a it
6:00
wasn't purely economics it was just I
6:03
feel like this area could really use it
6:04
I really enjoyed it and and here we are
6:07
seven years later I feel like I want to
6:10
ask a follow-up question here uh
6:12
something we didn't discuss before the
6:13
show which is which came first your
6:15
fascination with roasting or your
6:17
decision to make a business in other
6:18
words did you did you think did you
6:21
analyze the Gap in the market first or
6:24
was roasting already something you were
6:26
passionate about uh no that's an awesome
6:28
question I it was the Gap in the market
6:30
because I I really kind of had to to
6:32
Rack my brain and say well what what can
6:35
I do how can I approach this how can I
6:39
um and again really laying out okay well
6:41
what are the traditional approaches to
6:43
solving the Gap and uh again quickly
6:46
identifying going down the path of
6:48
running a coffee shop was not not in the
6:51
cards for me so with my background in
6:53
business and finance I I thought just
6:55
naturally what if I go Upstream and
6:59
going Upstream simply meant roasting you
7:02
know further Upstream from that is being
7:04
an importer of green beans now if I went
7:07
to be an importer of green beans it
7:08
didn't really solve the the Gap in the
7:11
market because simply going to get green
7:13
beans with no roaster in the area
7:15
doesn't doesn't do anybody any good
7:18
so as I learned more about the roasting
7:20
process and how it was you know very
7:22
similar to to cooking I I really enjoy
7:25
doing grilling and smoking of meats
7:27
briskets things like that I I it just it
7:30
kind of fit I didn't realize it was
7:33
going to be that good of a fit or I was
7:35
going to really enjoy it that much
7:38
but I guess the Stars aligned so to
7:40
speak if you're starting a coffee
7:42
roasting business what kind of equipment
7:44
do you need uh can you give us a general
7:47
idea if you're if you're just getting
7:49
started yeah if you're just getting
7:52
um all you really need is a roaster
7:55
there are different Roasters out there
7:57
obviously roaster manufacturers and
7:59
roaster Brands but there's also
8:01
different roaster Styles uh the style
8:04
that I use is a drum roaster
8:08
and that's simply it the size of the
8:10
roaster is really going to be a function
8:13
how you think you're going to approach
8:14
the market what your what Your volumes
8:17
will be and even the space that you may
8:21
um so I I proudly started with a one
8:23
kilogram roaster uh that was basically
8:26
the in the world of roasting
8:28
um you're really not getting into big
8:30
production roasting until you're at even
8:32
a 60 kilogram roaster but so even in the
8:35
world of small batch roasting a one
8:36
kilogram is just a tiny little guy uh
8:39
but I purposely did that because my
8:42
business even when I started and now is
8:44
still focused on more frequent roasting
8:48
batches uh and and small batches with
8:51
lots of different Origins so by having a
8:54
smaller roaster allowed me to maintain
8:56
fresher batches while providing a
9:00
variety of Origins and roast profiles so
9:03
again that was a personal preference
9:04
based on on my Approach
9:07
um but other than that and a scale so
9:10
you know how much you're putting how
9:12
many you know kilograms or grams you're
9:14
putting Into The Roaster and then a
9:16
scale for the salable product
9:19
that's about it it makes me think if
9:22
you're putting a business plan together
9:23
uh you and you're probably kind of
9:25
analyzing how much this is all going to
9:27
cost I and I know this is probably a
9:29
hard question because there's all
9:30
different kinds of sizes of roaster but
9:33
how much money are you talking about
9:35
investing in a machine like that can you
9:38
give us a range sure sure so
9:41
um and again this is all you know
9:43
subject to today's pricing uh so if
9:45
somebody's watching this you know
9:46
sometime in the future uh the prices
9:48
might be different but a one you know
9:50
again I I like Mill City Roasters
9:52
they're um they're very very durable uh
9:55
they are a little more expensive than
9:56
other Roasters and I believe right now
10:00
they're one kilogram is maybe seven
10:03
eight thousand dollars I've upgraded to
10:06
a three kilogram again it's purposely
10:08
small to to do exactly what I've been
10:11
doing a three kilogram I think right now
10:16
17 18 000 price point those are all
10:20
brand new those are all before they're
10:21
shipped to you but there is a pretty
10:24
robust used market for roasting
10:27
um again depending on where you are if
10:29
you're in a bigger city you have uh
10:31
probably a better chance of finding some
10:33
used equipment and those prices are
10:36
if it's a really good machine you might
10:38
get it for 30 40 percent less than new
10:43
um sometimes maybe only 10 less than new
10:45
depending on how long it's been used and
10:47
how it's been maintained as you get
10:49
larger uh larger Roasters and larger
10:54
production you may want to look at some
10:57
bagging automated bagging
10:59
a machine called a d Stoner so there are
11:02
times where there is material that comes
11:04
in in the coffee it is an Agricultural
11:07
Product so with me doing small batch
11:09
I'll pick out if I can count actually on
11:12
on two hands in seven years I've only
11:14
had to pick out a couple of rocks but
11:17
let's say you're going you know more
11:18
commercialized and you're just dumping
11:20
whole big 59 kilogram burlap bags into
11:24
The Roaster at once then you'll have a
11:26
machine after the roasting process that
11:30
um undesirable things that may have
11:33
found their way into the roaster
11:35
if you're starting where do you how do
11:38
you go about finding a roasting machine
11:40
for sale where where what kind of play
11:43
What where do you look so interestingly
11:46
enough uh even Mill City and a lot of
11:48
the other manufacturers actually will
11:51
buy their own Roasters back and in some
11:53
cases they might buy other brands bring
11:56
them back in house refurbish them and
11:58
then make them available so obviously
12:00
you can look at Facebook Marketplace and
12:02
you can look at you know kind of
12:03
Craigslist and some of those obvious
12:05
areas but going back to the
12:08
manufacturers you can always reach out
12:10
to them and say hey do you have uh
12:13
something that somebody has returned or
12:14
that you've bought back so you know Mill
12:16
City actually has a program of buying
12:18
back Roasters refurbishing them and then
12:20
making them available as well
12:23
I say this kind of tongue-in-cheek the
12:25
machines aren't terribly complicated in
12:27
terms of the mechanics of them you know
12:29
you've got a you've got a drum motor
12:31
you've got a couple of fans you've got a
12:32
cooling Tray Motor uh if you're
12:35
mechanically inclined there's certainly
12:37
deals to be had by going out identifying
12:39
maybe a roaster that just needs a little
12:41
love and and putting it back together
12:44
but if you're not mechanically inclined
12:45
then I think you know going and just
12:47
talking to the existing manufacturers
12:49
and seeing what they've got available is
12:51
a great starting point
12:53
how how much can a can a small roaster
12:56
really bring in I I realize it depends
12:59
on demand and everything but I mean can
13:04
I will give you enough of the parts and
13:06
pieces that anybody watching can
13:07
certainly get a napkin and calculate it
13:09
so good good so I don't know that's good
13:13
because every Market's different I
13:14
realize that that's why it's a hard
13:15
question to answer but on the other hand
13:17
you're talking about big Investments and
13:19
big equipment so you got to kind of have
13:21
some kind of you know starting point
13:26
um there's really a couple of approaches
13:27
one identifying who your target market
13:30
is and what what they're willing and
13:34
what they're willing to pay for for
13:36
freshly roasted coffee uh and depending
13:39
on your your with the quality of the
13:40
coffee you're putting out so again for
13:43
me being direct to Consumer uh margins
13:45
are a little bit higher but it is a lot
13:47
of a lot more work building a direct
13:50
consumer base of customers and clients
13:53
uh now when you look at going more of
13:57
the commercial and wholesale business
14:01
a lot more opportunity for volume and
14:04
volume level roasting so you are certain
14:06
you can certainly turn out a lot more
14:08
coffee you can drive a lot more Top Line
14:10
growth that way the price points you're
14:13
getting is going to be really Market
14:14
dependent and again depending on who
14:17
you're competing against as well
14:19
right but you're definitely talking
14:20
lower margin but in theory you'll pick
14:24
that up with volume so back to your
14:27
point about making Investments I made I
14:29
started out making a smaller investment
14:31
knowing that the hurdles I needed to
14:33
overcome were much smaller well that's
14:36
it for another episode of small business
14:38
15. thanks again to Brian Abernathy of
14:41
grumpy goat coffee for making this
14:43
program possible please like And
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14:47
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14:48
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