Survivor 48: Kyle Fraser Winner Interview (2025)

Well, let's get into it because we got we got a lot to dig into

Warts and all, Kyle, or maybe it's a callus. I guess to start, I mean, it's got to be this victory

Congratulations, man. I know that it was a decisive one, but I guess the question I want to ask is how decisive was it for you going into everything

Obviously, we'll get into a lot of the things that you made public that was quite private at Final Tribal Council

But once everything happened with the closing statements, what did you think your chances were of taking home the million

Yeah, that's tough. I thought maybe it was like 70, 70 percent

The jury was very receptive to me. I was very scared because I did play under the shadows, you know, in the shadows, undercover sort of game

And it's hard to communicate things. People talk about all the time. You can play an incredible game, but if you can't communicate it to the jury or they're not receptive, then it can blow back in your face

I felt strong. I felt strongly that I deserved the win, but I was also with two other people sitting there

who played a great game as well. So it was hard, but it was intentional and I'm proud that the jury was receptive

Were there any jury votes one way or the other that surprised you when everything came in

Yeah, you know, it was tough for me. They didn't show a lot of the relationships that I had with a lot of the jury members

You know, there's only so much time. We all have so many relationships. Cedric and I got very close in the short amount of time we were together

Chrissy and I, you know, I had to write her name down. David. David probably surprised me the most because David and I had a very, very close relationship on that island

And that vote was very hard for me, and I'm sure it was hard for him

We've talked about it. So that one surprised me. I'm really, really happy that he still decided to reward my game

Yeah. So let's get into this final tribal council, because to your point

you came in knowing that you had to shine a light on some of the stuff that you were doing in the shadows

uh and it looks certainly from our perspective like all of us probably including yourself we're

just waiting for the shaheen little tidbit to come in here to undermine joe and eva that was

the entire tension behind the move in the first place so talk to me about when you decided to

deploy it you know was it as simple as was it shown as like all right camilla's gonna set you

up and now that's the alley oop the roles have reversed yeah well i mean it's tough it goes back

to the beginning of the merge for me um i'll be completely honest with you i got to the merge i

I just played an idol. I had convinced people to let me still be in the majority alliance

And I just won the first challenge of the season. I was the first person to get merged. So I really was like, I just want to sit back and get to the end

But as the game progresses, you know, I got past the Caleb point. And then I'm starting to get into Omer, Ricard, Jesse point

And then I get past that. Now I'm like, I need to explain my game. I'm the Caleb Austin archetype

And I'm like, I know I'm proud of the game that I played. I think I deserve to win, but I need one more thing to show the jury

I need something concrete, evidence, you know, I'll put my lawyer hat on. And that's what that was

You know, and Shaki and I were very close, too. So that was an incredibly hard vote

But at that point, I knew I was going for it. And I was going to give them one last thing to I wasn't leaving anything to chance

I deserved to win the game. And that was my move to sort of give it to them to reward me

Well, what I was so intrigued by with following your journey was obviously this incredibly

open balance you had between strategic and personal. And again, you kept a lot of things very private in this game. Obviously, we'll get into the strategic side with Camilla, but even details like your lawyer career or, you know, your past incarcerations

What I found so intriguing was that there were a couple moments this season where you would reveal these pieces of information on a one-on-one basis, right

You would sit down with Joe and talk about your past. You talked to Camilla about being a lawyer before day 26

Divulging those pieces of information to you in the moment, was that more strategic or more personal

Entirely personal, if I'm being completely honest. There was a conversation that was shown on New Vula between Joe Shaheen and Camilla that was really powerful

I didn't share much in that moment because I didn't think it was my time. But Joe and I had a very close relationship on that island

Again, only 90 minutes, so you can only show so much. But we had a lot of conversations about race at length what it like to be a black man in America to be completely frank with you His dad was incarcerated and we had talked about that And so it was really nice for me to be able to share that with him And I glad that I did The lawyer piece with Camilla that was strategic actually you know that was an emotional moment

But, you know, I just kicked out Mary. I just kicked out Star. All of us did. Not just me

I'm not going to own that myself. But every single one of the people that was going out of the game

told me, you're giving it to Joe. You're giving it to Joe. And I'm like, how can it be when I just

played the idol, trick people to be in the majority alliance. Like, is nobody seeing this? And I asked Camilla, I honestly, a moment of weakness. I was like, does it move the needle

with you in regards to me versus Joe? If you know that I'm a lawyer, does it mean anything

And Camilla was like, whatever, you know, she was like, it's okay. But that was strategic. Camilla

and I were constantly thinking about what equity do we, what equity do we have? Do I have a chance

of winning this game? And to hear that somebody else has a better chance than you when they're

leaving the game over and over and over again, it was kind of getting in my head. But I trusted

myself. I was proud of the game that I played. And I wanted to represent myself against the

biggest threat in the game. And that's what I did. Yeah, talk to me more about that. Because

you know, it seems like you have to your credit about your maneuvering and positioning myriad

opportunities to maybe pull the trigger on a Joe and an Eva. Talk to me through your logic as to why

you decided to keep them through to day 26. Was it as simple as I know I can beat them in the end

or was it more of what you were saying of like, to be the best, you got to beat the best

Yeah, you know, it's funny because I had that confessional about like Survivor being a game that you win in the margins

And I think that it is. I think that my game was nuanced, you know? In real life, my family members and friends accused me

of being emotionally unavailable. Yet somehow I was the most emotional guy on that island

But emotion and strategy overlapped for me every single day out there

Again, I went into the merge just playing an idol. We hadn't seen Rachel's season

I think in my mind, I'm the first successful idol play of the season. I have now tricked everybody into believing that it was completely coincidental

Camille and I weren't working together. I'm in the majority alliance and I win challenges

Yet nobody was talking about me. So at that point, I thought maybe I could get to the end of the game without having to do anything and complete my case

At the same time, you have to continue to do things that are hard emotionally

You know, I played the middle very, very hard. You know, I was in the majority alliance, but everybody in the minority also thought that I was with them

And the way that I kind of viewed my role was like I told everybody to get in the Trojan horse and I'm like, it's coming, it's coming, it's coming

But I'd like slowly open the door and maybe tomorrow, you know, because I kind of like the position that I was in

Maybe it's because I'm not confrontational or maybe it's because I thought that's the best way for me to win the game

I left my options open all the way to the very end and I'm proud of it. Yeah, so one of those major options was Camilla. And I would love to hear from you, sort of what was the secret to the success of keeping an underground for so long? And I guess, on the contrary, what has sort of been your response to these jurors coming out in their interviews and saying, oh, I actually knew that they were working really closely together. It just benefited my game, which is why I didn't rat it out

I mean, well, I mean, there's, there's two ways to think about it, right? Like, if I'm talking to you in reality, Camilla and I didn't even know we were working together sometimes

As I mentioned, David was my number one, but Camilla and I developed this relationship on

Nuvula where we had to like do this incredible thing and keep it undercover that we were like

oh, wow, we work really well together. Camilla and I talked for 30 to 45 seconds a day, if that

Camilla would go in the woods and I would like sprint around and come around and talk to her

bing bang boom um she's my work wife we were incredibly efficient out there um so if people

say that they saw us talking out there good for them i barely saw myself talking to her but um

but i mean i guess to humor your hypothetical if people knew about camilla nice relationship

what the hell are you doing you know like okay again like this guy played the idol he's in the

majority alliance he's winning challenges and he has a secret number one and you know about it vote me out i guess i don't know not to be like coy or anything but um it's it's it's a pretty um

interesting hypothetical i guess yeah so you talked about negotiating this relationship with

the jurors and again maybe one of the reasons why you continue to go with the majority is because you

do get to a certain point that you vocalize to us of like oh man i'm fearing that the jury is going

to be a little ticked off at the fact that i making relationships with them so you decide at that point like essentially not to say you were closing off options because again that was you know your your MO But you

said, this is where I drawing the line. I'm done betraying people's trust. Clarify a little bit

more what that means. And what made you come to that conclusion? Yeah, so it starts with the first

juror. Cedric and I developed a relationship. I really enjoy Cedric. And I fully plan to kind of

worked with him moving through the game. I wanted to keep every single door open. That was my game

plan. And he, he trusted me a lot at that split tribal. And he was the first person with the jury

He looked directly at me, said something about his daughter, Claire, and then he went home and

he looked pissed. Chrissy, right? It was this, there was this twist where everybody went away

right? I had to spend hours with the one person who was in my C before Alliance while some people

were doing this like ball journey and other people are eating tacos and um i'm i'm like grooming

chrissy essentially to go to the jury write her name down to save camilla david was my number one

write his name down he was pissed like you know there's there's no there's no ifs ands or buts

about it like people were going to the jury and looking at me and they were upset and um at some

point you kind of have to think if i put this person on the jury after there are three people

who are already very pissed at me will they vote for me okay like it's one thing to make big moves

but are you going to make a big move and put somebody in the jury who's not going to vote for you? Absolutely not. Like you play to win. You don't play for, you know, enjoyment, I guess

So one of the big moves that you made towards the end when you had all the power, again

very emblematic of your game at the final four. I mean, we saw despite this maybe being cut and

dry initially, you really running through the options where you're like, okay, I'm picking Joe

Camilla, you're going in. Wait a minute. Okay. Maybe I want to go in against Camilla. Wait

Eva's really going through it. Joe, you let me know if I shouldn't send her in. So talk me through

all of the options that you were probably working through over the course of day 25

leading to you ultimately deciding to take Joe to the end. Yeah. I mean, I guess there's a couple of things, right? If I'm walking through it logically

the first thing is I know I can't sit at the end with Camilla. I'm so glad that she told that to me

and that she did that to me first because I was thinking about that all along. I knew that we

would split the votes. I was very scared of her. The funny, the ironic thing about our relationship

is that I trusted probably the best person on the best liar on the island. And I was constantly

looking over my shoulder with her because she's an incredible player. So managing that relationship

was very difficult, but we had a partnership. So I knew I was not going to sit next to her at the end. Then you look at Joe and Eva. People have repeatedly told me that Joe is going to win the

game as they're leaving because they don't know my game that's been in the shadows. Can I communicate it? And Eva is like a sister to me. They didn't show the relationship that I had with

Eva, but she's the strongest woman that I know. And we talked for hours every single day out there

Throughout the situation is this. Emotionally, I was going to keep my promise to Joe. Strategically

I was not going to give him a chance to get one more notch on his resume because I was scared of

him as a player. Of course, I was. With Eva, when I told her that she was making fire, of course

emotionally, it was what she went through and what she overcome is one of the most incredible

things I've ever seen in my life. But I knew the moment that I told her that she was making fire

even if I wanted to take it back, it was not my decision anymore. She was not going to let anyone

take that away from her. And, you know, try and try and try. You saw Joe pleading, I was pleading

too. And I'm proud of the decision that I made. It was tough. But I think it was the right one

I threaded a needle that was a very narrow gap. It was a very narrow gap for me to win and feel

good about myself at the same time. So in addition to obviously divulging a lot of your backgrounds

to the players, you obviously did so to us as well. And I know that you went into a little bit more detail

about your incarceration on social media sort of after the fact, but looking at sort of the way you decided

to tell your story, and especially I imagine the response from the fandom

to those sorts of issues that you're bringing to light, what has it been like for you to look back upon

not only an experience that made you a million dollars richer, but allowed you to really

I imagine showcase parts of yourself that you never thought you would have before you stepped foot on that island Yeah absolutely If I being completely honest with you I a lawyer I work at a great law firm in New York It has not always been that way for

me. Yet people assume that it has been. And no one in my life, except for my very close family

members and friends know that I've been incarcerated. I was terrified when it was going to be on TV

but I'm proud of myself because I think it's important for people to see people who look like

me, succeed, but also go through some things. I'm not, I'm privy to the way that I sound. I'm privy

to the way that I present myself. I'm privy to the assumptions that people make about me

But I've spent time in a box. I've seen men, I've been with people who have been through things that

it's hard to comprehend and it changes you. But it changes me for the better in a lot of ways

because I know that I could overcome anything. So I'm glad that I got to share that. It was crazy

to see the reception that was so positive from both my colleagues in the workplace

my friends, my family members. And I'm just blessed because one thing that I was hiding about myself

is now I'm in the Open, and I guess that's my entire game if you really think about it. The last thing I want to ask is, you know

we are going to have players following in your footsteps fairly quickly

And I imagine now you have not made the game easier for them and that people are going to be picking up being like

is there another Kyle and Camilla out there? What advice can you try to give to future survivor players of how to keep a number one on the download like you and Camilla were able to do over the course of the season

You know what? You got to work for it first off. If I'm being like real, you really, you know, again, I was sprinting through the woods

If I got a chance with Camilla, it was like the most important conversation I was going to have

You saw literally probably 90% of the conversations I had with her. And you saw like 15% of the ones that I had with everyone else on that island

but I'll keep it a buck. You know, the only reason that that partnership worked is because

of the relationship that we had. Um, the only reason that people allowed for it to happen is

because of the relationship that I had with them, right? You have to build a foundation with people

to play the game. It's not poker. It's not chess. People think it is. I thought it was

I thought I was going to go out there and be cutthroat, but I built relationships. I had the foundation to play the game when people were clocking me, other people didn't believe them

And I was managing a relationship with one of the deadliest players that we've seen this game

in this game. Like she is a dangerous player. And while we had this partnership, I was looking over

my shoulder every damn day out there. And I think I, I think I did a pretty good job at that

Well, listen, I know that it was an experience that I imagine defied your expectations in so

many ways, you know, from that first day, I imagine any predictions you had got smashed

like that jar and you had to learn how to adapt and rebuild. And it culminated in this incredibly

impressive game. You know, you're caked up, but you had your cake and ate it too when it came to

being able to not only win this game, but do so in a way that felt so personally fulfilling. And

it's just been such a great opportunity to follow you, man. You know, you were the first person I

got to sit down with out there. And I cannot imagine what was going through your head in that

moment, but I'm so thrilled that we get the chance to talk now after you played so impressively and

walked away with the win while also being able to make these lifelong relationships and get to

showcase to your point a side of yourself that that you never truly expected to millions of people so

um congratulations would be an understatement like i can tell this has been an absolutely

life-changing experience for you in so many ways and i am just happy along with the fans to be

along for the ride in this life-changing experience thank you mike i think i've ranted to you in

person about how um how much i appreciate your journalism and how fair and cool you are and

knowledgeable so i won't do that here but um i just want to say i really appreciate it and it's

been such a pleasure talking to you and I can't believe I even get to talk to you this is incredible

thank you thank you oh my god yes the pleasure is online and this this will definitely will not be

the last time uh that we're talking man but for now I wish you and Maggie nothing but the best uh

I cannot wait to see what happens next for you Kyle it's gonna be nothing but bright prospects

and thank you as always for your candor for your honesty for your openness this has been an absolute

pleasure and delight, sir. Thank you again. Thank you so much, Mike. I really do truly appreciate it

Yeah, of course. Yeah, let's go. Have a good one, man. Thanks again