Hannah Einbinder and Jane Schoenbrun on 'Teenage Sex and Death at Camp Miasma,' the best gummies, and Counting Crows

I'm so glad that we are having like a horny movie summer

We've got the invite. We've got I Want Your Sex. We've got Teenage Sex and Death at Camp Miasma

The trailer for Wicker is out, which I don't know if you've seen, but people are very excited

Oh, it's made its way across my desk. Yeah. So it's interesting because we have

there's been a real restriction. I've been watching a lot of like 80s and 90s action and erotica movies just because it's a good place

to like let my brain relax. And I was like, oh, right. We just used to just have tits out

and it wasn't a big deal. and it's like, it feels like that's starting to come back

Thank you. You're welcome. Teenage Sex and Death at Camp Miasma is such a fun movie because it is a slasher movie

It is a queer story. It is a love story. It is a lot of things, including a comedy

Out here, there are certain nights when you just get this feeling

that some psycho killers that'll chop you up into a million little bases

How much of it were you thinking about the audience in a theater as you were making it. I think more and more every time. Yeah, I think

I'm like a funny mix of like, like pleaser and edgelord. If all I'm doing is making people have

a great time, I start to feel like, oh, I need to throw some bombs into the mix. But I love making

people have a great time. And I think it's also like my favorite movies are the ones that do that

dance. And especially when you're talking about like horror or romance or movies about sex. I love

nothing more than the feeling of like I can't believe they let them do that the joy of sitting

in a room and and not knowing where something is going to go but experiencing it with others and

going on this like weird sexy strange profane taboo journey um I yeah I thought a ton about

how that would feel and it's by far my favorite film of mine to watch with people because my my

previous movies were kind of bummers and and so like job well done is sitting there and everyone

being really sad and bummed out. People walking out really quietly. Yeah, no, I remember the first

time I watched my first film with an audience because it was the pandemic and so it was a

couple months after it had premiered online. Just feeling everyone's anxiety in the room and being

like, I guess that means I did a good job. I think there is just something also to like the joy of

the theatrical experience and this is a movie that is like very much in love with the tools

and language of filmmaking. And it, yeah, for the first time in my career

they're like striking actual prints of it. We shot the film on 35 millimeter

and it will be playing around the country, around the world on 35 millimeter

Yeah, it makes film feel more durational to me or it makes it feel more like this like circus

or carnival show that you're like, oh, I'm gonna like make you this thing

that fits on this number of reels and it's going to be magic. I think like whenever I am making comedy, I feel like the audience is ingrained in my perspective on the thing

But also I feel like when I'm making comedy with other people, it is because I think that we have the same idea of what is funny

And so I don't know if I'm conscious of the audience. I'm conscious of whether like Jane is laughing

And to me, that is the bar. And that means that the audience will laugh

So it's kind of like, is it meeting our standard is how I like tend to view it

Because if it does, then I think it means it's good. I love when Hannah makes me laugh

Me too. Best feeling of that. And you're very funny in this movie. But for people who haven't seen it yet, it's a very different performance than Hacks

Like, and you've said this, that it's a character who's very unlike you. Can you talk a little bit about finding the humor in Chris

Yeah, right. It's interesting because like I know like sort of the rhythm and the pace and the way that my personal comedic timing manifests that Ava's from Hacks' comedic timing comes out

But finding kind of a newer rhythm was definitely interesting, especially because the character is just at a like higher energy with like sort of the anxiousness sort of throughout the performance

So, I mean, I do think that there are certain basic rhythms in comedy that are, like, universal

And I think that, like, I can think of a couple moments, like the meeting scene where Billy and Chris are talking and Chris asks, like, how exactly did you find, you know, decide to live at the sleep-awake camp from the first film

And, you know, Billy says, like, someone's got to be here when Little Death comes back. At the bottom of the lane where the movies come from, he always comes back

What? That pause before the what, like that to me is the universal time

Like that is the magic time that needs to pass before the word comes out

Like, there are things like that that I think are just the grand sort of, like, global, universal comedic timing

But I think that, like, it was a fun challenge to kind of be like, okay, in what way is this person funny

And how aware of it are they? Like, is there something funny here that is not intentionally funny from this character

Ava is a comedy writer, and so Ava's trying to do jokes

Where Chris wants to be taken so seriously. At times, I think. But also I think Chris has their own sense of humor too

So yeah, it was a very fun opportunity to be like, how do I do comedy as someone who has a completely different rhythm from myself

It was cool, very rewarding. Well, also in this, Gillian Anderson is so fantastic

fantastic and last night at the momi you said that it's not in the script that she is southern

and it's not that she's southern it's like watching it a second time i was like

she feels like dolly parton by david lynch it's an incredible accent yeah it wasn't in the script

and the second i heard it it was like obviously this is what it is yeah it's just like it planted

its flag on the character in the movie um no it really is incredible because the thing that was

there always and is such a delicate balance like that to me like the most stressful moment

in like editing the movie is when she first emerges from the shadows and like kind of like

the movie starts hi i'm billy presley it's so bold and this was always there that this character

was going to be this kind of like it's not just that she's like reclusive or that she starred in

in the first film or that she like legendary it that she is like straight out of like classic Hollywood in this way that like is just everything she does is imbued with this like strange elegance and that why I wanted Jillian because I knew she could do that

Well speaking to that I we need to talk about fried chicken and dipping sauces. Can you can you tell me a little bit about that sequence and I guess kind of finding what the

tone is going to be especially as you're doing the close-ups and is that foley work of the

squishing sounds is that done on set like that's foley there's a lot of foley work in that scene

um the crunch the goop the tear beautiful foley work by tim corn and his team at dungeon beach

are you pitching for a kfc campaign because it feels like it's a missed opportunity on their part

well so here's here's the thing is that um there is no product placement in this movie i've been

hearing people are like people are like oh this movie is filled with product placement it's like

we just like candy dude the game we're not we want to pay respect to the freaking candy that

paved the way for us and i wrote the not a drop of product placement i wrote the script for popeyes

i did no it says popeyes in the script and she goes like i love popeyes or something like that

And then the lawyer told me it had too many positive references to Popeye's

Too many unsolicited. I screenshotted it because I was like, this is what I'm proud of

That's the funniest note I think most people have ever gotten. Yeah, no, they said, like, we are in league

It is legally un- Advisable? Advisable for us to include this many unsolicited praises of Popeye's chicken

And I was like, well, can I make it KFC? And they were like, totally. So funny

maybe that maybe the lawyer got a little under the table yeah that's very funny the lawyer also

told me because the original line was um uh james bond like arguably invented 20th century misogyny

and they were like you can't say that it's conjecture and i said okay can i change it to

james bond literally assaults women in gold finger and thunder ball um and she i remember i was on

the conference call with the lawyer she was on speakerphone and she went well i just asked ai

and it says that that's true so yes you can include that amazing ask an ai

how about ask an i gosh and yeah the candy i didn't think of it as product placement i just

also just as a gummy lover yeah no totally it's that gummy life yeah and we both included

references to our personal favorite gummies yes hannah's favorite sweet tart mini chewy and also

our shared favorite, which is the Jolly Rancher Chews. Well, those are my favorites

So I threw that in at the end for me. That's like a next freaking level

It's like what Now and Later was trying to do. It is exactly what Now and Later

You know what I mean? Now and Later without the weird little paper. I'm eating paper when I'm eating those

I'm eating paper. I'm eating paper. And by the way, I'm doing it willingly

And later I'm going to be digesting paper. Yeah, I'm eating paper now. I'm digesting it

But those Jolly Rancher Fruit Chews are so delicious. Really, literally good. They're so good

I've had this. I tend to go with the classic cigarette carton

They're like in the box. You crack open the top. Oh, my God

They're so good. Unbelievable. I mean, it's also I think there's something so tactile to a gummy

It just feels more satisfying than, like, I don't know, especially American chocolate

Like, we don't. Oh, yeah. American chocolate is often a lot of just kind of, I don't know, chewiness

We're living in the golden age of gummy candy. Yeah. That's so genuinely true

I will just throw out, they have Harito gummies now. Yeah. And in three different kinds

Not just flavors, mind you. They're straight up kinds. So it's just the Harito flavors and like little bottle shapes

Amazing. Pineapple? Yes. Yes. Two, sour. Ooh. And then three, spicy. So it has like the tigin

Mm. Interesting. I'm ready to engage. Because I had the like, what are those iced teas

The tall boy iced teas? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Arizona? Yeah, Arizona iced tea gummies

Disgusting. No. See, here's the thing. And if you don't mind, I would like to spend a little time on this

I'm not mad. Okay, good. I think that a lot of these brands, you know, they think that they can coast on flavor when

really the integrity... I mean, even Starburst Minis does not hold up to the original stuff

I actually like Starburst Minis. But you have to eat like four at a time. See, that for me doesn't work

No, I have a friend. Respectfully. I have a friend who loves Starbursts, and whenever I buy them Starburst minis, they get so mad

It's just there's something not, it just doesn't, and I'm proud, and I'm happy for you

but yeah, I just think that it's not always a given. For instance, the Jolly Rancher gummies are not as good as the Jolly Rancher chews

They're good, not great. Yeah, for real, like a texture thing, I've tried doing the vegan gummies

because I was like, maybe I can be a better person. That's not the route, because it's wrong

Have you had the Shack gummies? You know about the Shaq gummies

No. Like the basketball player? Shaquille O'Neal. Yeah, Shaq has his own brand of gummies and they're just shaped like his head

It's actually like psychotic and they're all blue. I will absolutely seek this out

They are actually good. Yeah, they're good. Wow. Yeah, the Shaq gummies, I give a B plus. Nobody remembers this, but he had a reality show in the mid-2000s about teaching kids

who were overweight to not be overweight. Huh. And it was very short-lived

I don't think it made it past two episodes, but it was one of the strangest things I've ever seen because it's like him trying to explain

They put them all on MRI. very cringe um yeah it was how the back rooms got invented like here's the thing it was like that

era of television where not everything was constantly accessible so now i feel like i'm

describing a dream i had when i talk about this because no one else remembers this show if you

describe next you're like wait for like kid nation like that feels like a group hallucination

siegfried and roy had an animated tv show they did this and it was for adults yeah like this is

thing like dumb and dumber had a spin-off like yeah yeah there was like a cartoon it was a cartoon

clark's tv show i did i actually had it on like dhs yeah it's actively good yeah but this is the

thing it's like there was definitely a time where like everything didn't feel accessible which is part of what i enjoy about the movie like because it's like there are references in

there to movies i forgot and then as i'm watching the movie i'm like right not sleepaway camp sleep

boy camp is burned into my soul like that last image of her mouth which you guys homage that is

in here forever it was so fun because watching the movie there are references but they are so

like obscured through your own lens so I'm curious for you when you're like putting this together

how much of that is like thinking about how you're translating this stuff or is it just kind of like

you just like let things metabolize as much as possible um and there are like a bunch of different levels of what you talking about right There are like there are moments in the film that I think of almost as like footnotes where I am trying to like draw the eye or the ear

to something that I think is interesting there's like a recently described as a tasteless joke

about Jamie Lee Curtis in the movie but it's like how can the fact that there is this giant

cultural moment and rumor that the most famous final girl was actually like a hermaphrodite

how could that not be like footnoted in this film it was so funny because i hadn't thought about that

rumor i think since college when i heard it and then in the movie last night i was watching with

a friend and he gasped and it was very funny because i also think it's a very if you know

you know thing among horror fans and among queer fans totally but it's yeah there's that there are

like these very yeah the movie is littered with these footnotes that i think i learned it on on

World's Fair and TV Glow which is that like I do a lot of thinking about what I'm trying to talk

about and um and it's not like the work I don't I don't try to hold myself to like uh like like

structuralist like everything needs to be only in the work and you cannot look outside it in fact I

like really enjoy littering the work with um yeah like illusions that I think if you like track them

down could like deepen your understanding of like what I am engaging with in the movie like another

one that like somebody during the the notes process was like what's that line mean because

it was a clearly something that like 0.1 percent of the audience would understand but there's this

line when um Jillian's character talks about having auditioned for the burning and she says

do you know who created that um Harvey Weinstein uh has a story by and produced by credit on that

movie and then also additionally gave himself a which you never see on film created by credit

this is very early in his career and it's like one of many uh friday the 13th sleepaway camp

slasher knockoffs this one feels like a little more brutalizing than some of the other ones

the oblique reference to that even if it is like a breadcrumb felt worth inclusion because it leads

you like directly to this question of like oh wait why did billy leave the industry or like

this oblique idea of like the casting couch and and like and not just like the movies that i'm

referencing as like a fan but like the labor practices through which they were made right

yeah um but then there's also just like oh i love that moment in evil dead 2 where that where like um

he he gets to the end of the road and there's this like weird matte painted backdrop of a bridge and

i love like certain beheadings and blood geysers and you know like the movie is also littered with

like remixes of yeah just like so many references that I've metabolized I make like a really giant

visual reference guide to the movie um and I tend to be very specific about like no I need this type

of mohawk from Return of the Living Dead or whatever it is and then I just have this team

that actually makes the stuff and so the references even if they were there at the beginning it gets

like effortlessly remixed into and warped into into our world as someone who caught a lot of the

references it's like a fun thing to be like okay we have we share a common language and you get to

feel part of the crowd as they're catching that stuff too but also as you point out if there's

something you don't get like then it's almost an invitation to like come join us like it doesn't

feel like well if you didn't get it tough times like it feels like there's enough there that you

can explore that on your own well and i like i think it's a very fine line from what i'm talking

about to the like either a like christopher nolan like puzzle box way of thinking right right the

like everything you need to like solve the movie like a puzzle or be easter eggs you know like oh

my god look it's like that guy who played spider-man all those years ago and i don't know i

have like a lot of skepticism of that like when the when when the value is simply like referential

sure it's sort of drained of of of something or like it's pointing to something that's in essence

empty at the center yeah and so I really try to make sure that like yeah if I'm footnoting something

or if I am alluding to something I mean it's different when you're like like I think every

filmmaker has their like visual like repertoire that they're pulling from and I just constantly

watch movies and I'm like oh my god that genius 50 years ago did this cool thing I should file

that away somewhere. But when it's like, yeah, when it's references, I do try to think about it

like, yeah, like an academic. Sure. What I'm so excited about part of this movie is that like

you do embrace horror and blood and all of that, but it's also like an unapologetically sexy movie

And I'm so glad that we are having like a horny movie summer. We've got the invite, we've got I

Want Your Sex, we've got Teenage Sex and Death and Camp Miasma. The trailer for Wicker is out

which I don't know if you've seen, but people are very excited. It's made its way across my desk

Yeah. So it's interesting because we have, there's been a real restriction. I've been watching a lot of like 80s and 90s action and erotica movies just because it's a good place to like let my brain relax. And I was like, oh, right. We just used to just have tits out and it wasn't a big deal. And it's like, it feels like that's starting to come back. Thank you

You're welcome. But like, I'd like to talk a bit about horny movies and like, why do you like, why do you want to be a part of that? Why do you think that we're seeing a resurgence

When you watch television, when you watch like a TV sitcom, you kind of take for granted that like this is the correct language through which any scene or story should be delivered

and that like that pervades culture right like we have this very conservative and regimented

cultural idea of like what how fast something should move or or like how what like proper

interact like yeah we're very we're very prudish i think in like our conventions and i'm not just

talking about like whether we see tits on screen i mean like when we think about like what a sex

scene is or should be in a movie it has so little to do with sex as i've experienced it or and

especially good sex as i've experienced it whether that be like the pan to the window and the dissolve

like let's just skirt through this in any way or like presenting sex as yeah this like discreet

erotic act yeah i mean like i don't think i'm a genius for saying that like usually if we do

see sex on screen it's like male driven in some way um you know it's like oh you know

uh and that's just like that that's like actually an opportunity because because like I've had so

many experiences in my life that I know are like not just mine that um I haven seen and if you can do the magic trick as an artist of like taking the unseen thing and putting it on screen and it moves people or in this case turns people on that can I think be a

really powerful and destabilizing thing. Yeah, I'm really proud of the sex scenes in this movie

especially that one in the middle of the film between Hannah and Jillian that kind of starts out

as maybe what you would think of as a normal sex scene and then just like leads to trauma because

that person literally can't perform a normal sex scene without totally dissociating and then slowly

becomes something else that like actually is her authentically finding a way to be like turned on

and present through play and role play and fantasy um i was like if like to me that's like maybe the

movie shouldn't exist if that doesn't work sure like that if that scene makes people feel confused

because they're like, wait, this is like really hot, but I've never seen sex like this on screen before

Like, cool job, me. Yeah, I genuinely think there's something really interesting

to the way sex is dealt with, that you are both romanticizing intimacy

but also addressing that sex is kind of inherently awkward at points

And so like the anxiety that audiences might be feeling with Chris is part of that experience intentionally

George Bataille, like that's my guy. I agree with his sort of assessment

which is that, like, sex is about that line between taboo and normal life, you know

And culturally, that line changes over time. But when we go into a space of, like, yeah, like sexual fantasy or desire

we are, like, bumping up because we want to be bumping up something deep inside us

that we can't really regulate with our, like, conscious mind. like we're bumping up against like what is forbidden and and riding that line and so

i mean i think obviously that the real villain are like the people who think that like

there is man there is woman and they do this to procreate like that's a sexual fantasy

and that's a sexual fantasy that serves like a certain male power structure and it has visited

so much harm on our society and our world by naturalizing itself by being like no this is

actually all okay and normal and like sure you can go and like masturbate to like stepdaughter porn

on Pornhub but like don't worry about that like you're a normal guy like this country has such a

sick relationship to its own repression and sexuality obviously um but yeah and so like

when you think of it that way, it's like, okay, yeah, I kind of get why Gen Z would be like

I'm not interested in any of that. Like, like, I don't even want to look at that. And then add in

like computers and like, then now you're like looking at like tentacles at like age 10 and

you're like, maybe I like those. It's like, of course, like it's, it's crazy, you know, but

but it, um, unfortunately is like basically a human need and drive and like, um, and yeah

and maybe even like the source of like how we make and change our world

And so we need to like look it in the eye. And the best way to do that, I think, is to be like

what are the freaky things that I'm like trying to push down

And is there a way for me to explore that in a space that doesn't hurt other people

but that actually like is intimate and makes me feel less alone and you know like I can share

pleasure with others I don't think that's just something for like the kink community or the

queer community I think that the world would be a lot healthier if everyone was more honest about

like their weird sex stuff I completely agree I uh we are almost out of time but I have to ask

because I wore the shirt. I do want to know about how Long December became

such a pivotal song for this film. I had written it originally

for Night Swimming by R.E.M., which is featured elsewhere in the film

which is just this incredibly beautiful. To me, it's like this very tender, queer anthem of, like

coming into feeling okay in yourself. You know, like, swimming at... Like, what's gayer and more beautiful

than, like, swimming at night and being afraid that other people are going to see you naked you know like it's so beautiful um and then i went through a breakup and

i was listening to recovering the satellites the album by the counting crows um a lot

and i was listening to long december over and over again because i've always loved that song

um i mean obviously and and then at some point i was like wait a second is it bet is it better

for that moment like does it beat uh night swimming and i think the thing that tipped me was um

Hollywood thing. Yeah, there's something really beautiful about like One More Night in Hollywood

and seeing Jack's eyes and hearing Jack sigh. And yeah, it's like this, it's a song that I think

captures this feeling of like hard-won perseverance. It's like this year has been really shitty

and maybe next year is going to be better. And it turns that feeling into triumph

nah nah nah and that just like if that's one ingredient and what we see on screen is the

other ingredient those two ingredients combine to make something that like i was like i want to

i want to feast on that that stew it's a stew do you have anything to say about counting crows

um my agent my agent's wife is who the song is about and they sang it at their wedding

wait i thought that is it you sang it to each other courtney cox no about courtney cox am i

getting that wrong i i think should i have not said that i don't know i don't i just might have

i think it's about a documentary maybe i got it maybe it's a maybe it's about like a couple people

Yeah, there's a half dozen women out there claiming that that song's a lot better

Because there's a documentary that came out recently, and he's like, everybody hated that second album

And I didn't remember it that way. But they remember it as that everybody hated the second album

But, like, yeah, that song's... I've listened to that song, that whole album, a lot

And that song was really, like, yeah, that hit me right. I think they said in the documentary that Monkey is about Courtney Cox

Oh, maybe that's it. Long December? Could be about all of us

It is about all of us. It is about all of us. That's true. Yeah. It's the way that light attaches to a girl

Na-na-na-na, na-na-na, na-na-na-na, yeah. I think we're going to go out on that note quite literally. Yeah

Yeah. Yeah