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30 Years Later, This Job Still Defines Me | Cooking Over Fire in the Middle of Nowhere
Jun 7, 2026
Long before YouTube, cookbooks, and the chuck wagon, I took a job in New Mexico’s Gila Wilderness guiding elk hunters and serving as the camp cook. The truth is, I did not know much about outdoor cooking when I started, but necessity is a great teacher. Deep in the backcountry, cooking over an open fire for hungry hunters every day, I learned through trial and error what worked and what did not. Looking back, that trip changed the course of my life and how I became a cowboy cook.
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0:00
And I'm thinking, I want to master this.
0:03
I want people to say Oh, I wish that guy
0:05
was our guide or our cook. You know, and
0:07
and it gives you a fuel and a fire and a
0:09
passion that you think
0:11
you got to do this. No matter [music]
0:13
what, you got to do this.
0:19
Howdy. My name is Kent Rollins. I've
0:21
been a cowboy and a chuck wagon cook for
0:23
over 30 years, cooking for ranches all
0:26
across America. You might have seen me
0:28
on the Food Network or alongside [music]
0:30
my beautiful wife Shannon on our YouTube
0:32
show, where we share cowboy cooking from
0:34
the trail. But now we're going to take
0:36
you behind the scenes to real campfire
0:38
[music] conversations. Join us as we
0:40
share humor, cowboy wisdom, and stories
0:43
[music] full of history, heart, faith,
0:45
and of course, a little fire. So, grab
0:47
[music] you a cup of coffee, pull up a
0:49
chair, and welcome to the podcast.
0:53
>> [music]
0:57
>> Welcome, everyone. And before we start,
1:00
I want to stop, and folks, do you have
1:03
your cup of coffee? Do you have a
1:05
beverage? Because if you don't, pause
1:08
this, go get one because we want you to
1:11
settle in this one, because Kent, you're
1:12
going to take us on an adventure today.
1:15
>> Yes, ma'am.
1:16
>> And and we are going to go deep into the
1:21
Gila Wilderness of New Mexico.
1:24
>> Yeah. Great place, very large.
1:28
Uh
1:29
pretty scary at the time.
1:31
>> Because this was your first outdoor
1:35
cooking.
1:36
>> Yeah, with any magnitude. Yeah, I mean,
1:38
I used to cook on the grill a little,
1:40
but I'd never cooked in a Dutch oven.
1:42
>> And you had never cooked at any high
1:44
elevation, either.
1:45
>> No, ma'am.
1:45
>> Right? And so, you haven't cooked really
1:50
to any extent outside. Unknown elements,
1:53
high elevation, remote, in the middle of
1:57
nowhere,
1:58
and now you're in charge of feeding a
2:01
crew.
2:02
>> Yeah.
2:03
>> And there's no McDonald's nearby.
2:05
>> No, I don't even think you could have
2:07
one of them DoorDashes, you know.
2:09
>> Ooh, gosh, wouldn't DoorDash been great
2:11
back then?
2:11
>> It would have been handy, but
2:13
>> [clears throat]
2:13
>> they don't allow wheeled vehicles in a
2:15
wilderness, so I don't think they'd have
2:17
wanted to tow it in. You know what I
2:18
mean?
2:18
>> They'd have to drop it from the sky. So,
2:20
anyway, let's get into this episode. And
2:25
we're going to do a flashback.
2:27
>> Yes.
2:27
>> You know those
2:28
>> A rewind.
2:30
>> Yeah.
2:30
>> Okay.
2:31
>> And take me back. You are in Oklahoma.
2:34
What year are we in at this point?
2:36
>> Ooh, I'd say about 1982.
2:39
>> Okay.
2:40
And you are in Oklahoma,
2:44
and you are about to get in the truck
2:47
and make
2:49
the biggest decision that is going to
2:51
change the course of your life, and you
2:54
have no idea.
2:55
>> No, I didn't know it was going to happen
2:57
at the time.
2:58
But, uh
3:00
my mother has an uncle, which he was I
3:02
mean a brother, which was my uncle,
3:04
and he lived in Southwest New Mexico,
3:07
north of Silver City, New Mexico.
3:09
Uh
3:10
and he was in the Gila Wilderness most
3:12
of his life. You know, we talk about the
3:13
Gila, one of the first wildernesses put
3:16
in by Roosevelt.
3:18
>> Oh.
3:18
>> And at the time I was out there, I think
3:20
it was close to 865,000
3:22
acres, and they've encompassed more
3:24
since then, the Black Range, the Leopold
3:26
Range.
3:27
But, Uncle knew that country better than
3:30
anybody.
3:31
And, uh he called and he said, "Hey,
3:33
this guy that was helping me, he ain't
3:35
helping me no more, and I need somebody
3:37
that can guide, and I know you can cook
3:38
cuz your mother taught you how. I need
3:40
you come out here." Let's go back first
3:42
and paint a picture, Oklahoma landscape,
3:44
okay? Southwest corner.
3:46
>> It's not hard to to paint. It's flat.
3:48
Take a pencil, draw a straight line.
3:50
That's what it is.
3:50
>> Got a lot of a lot of canyons and
3:52
places, not deep.
3:53
>> Sometimes, yeah.
3:54
>> Yeah.
3:54
>> lot of mesquite tree, a lot of cactus, a
3:57
lot of rattlesnake.
3:58
>> And like
3:59
2 ft above sea level.
4:01
>> Oh, 1,880 ft.
4:03
>> Okay, but significantly different from
4:05
where you're about to go.
4:06
>> Yeah. So, I I load up a little Ford
4:08
Ranger pickup.
4:09
>> Like where What are you doing at this
4:11
time? Do you have a job?
4:13
>> Yeah. Yeah, I was working for the county
4:15
there at in Harmon County at Hollis. And
4:18
uh
4:18
I really had to be nice to the boss cuz
4:20
I told him I said, "I don't know how
4:21
long I'm going to be gone."
4:23
>> Oh, so they let you take like a leave
4:25
>> Yeah.
4:26
>> for this and then you could come back to
4:27
the job?
4:28
>> thinking they thought maybe so they
4:29
could fire me, you know, they thought
4:31
that'd be all right. But he was a very
4:32
gracious man and he said, "I understand.
4:34
It's a once-in-a-lifetime chance, you
4:36
know."
4:36
>> And so you just wanted to do it because
4:39
you're going to be out in nature. Like
4:41
what was your your purpose for going?
4:43
>> First of all,
4:44
I admired him a great deal.
4:47
He was an outdoorsman.
4:48
He
4:49
stayed in that Heeler most of his life
4:51
after he got out of the army.
4:54
He knew mules, he knew horses,
4:56
uh
4:57
and he
4:58
had something that I'd seen pictures of,
5:01
but I'd never got to be around and that
5:03
was elk.
5:04
>> Oh.
5:04
>> There was always this this dream of mine
5:07
to be in the mountains, the the terrain,
5:10
the pine trees,
5:12
but to hear the bugle of an elk. You
5:15
know, it just I thought man, this could
5:17
be the greatest thing ever.
5:19
So,
5:19
>> Had you
5:20
done elk hunting before?
5:22
>> Well, we we didn't hardly have any deer
5:24
in Oklahoma at the time where we lived.
5:26
There was not very many.
5:27
Uh
5:28
Me and Dale, my brother,
5:31
we shot
5:32
two deer the first year that they ever
5:34
checked deer in in the county and there
5:36
was 11 checked in, you know, so and it's
5:39
uh
5:40
let me see, about
5:42
10 and 1/2 11-hour drive.
5:44
And I leave like
5:46
5:00 in the morning. The whole way out
5:48
there uh
5:49
you know you [clears throat] try to
5:50
convince yourself sometimes I can do
5:52
this. Yeah, I got this. This could be
5:53
all right. And then there was that
5:54
little deal in the back of your head
5:55
that kicks in and says, "You ain't going
5:57
to do You ain't going to get this done.
5:59
You ain't going to make it."
6:00
>> So you're you're kind of um actually and
6:02
metaphorically carrying a load. You've
6:05
got the the weight of what you're
6:07
leaving behind, who you're leaving
6:09
behind, what you're getting into that
6:11
you don't know, and then you're packing
6:13
a little bit of your life with you to go
6:15
into this unknown.
6:17
>> Yes, ma'am.
6:18
>> Introduce us to Uncle Duck cuz he from
6:22
what I understand he's quite a
6:23
character.
6:24
>> I really I've heard so many stories
6:27
growing up.
6:29
His name was Harry Newton Van Ausdale
6:31
Jr.
6:32
And they called him Duck.
6:35
And Mama used to say that he would
6:38
he never learned to crawl.
6:40
He they said
6:42
they sort of walked like a duck.
6:44
>> Oh.
6:45
>> You know.
6:45
>> Yeah.
6:46
>> He knew a mule and a horse better than
6:48
anybody I knew.
6:50
And he knew that country.
6:53
The Forest Service and the Game
6:55
Department respected him so much
6:58
because they would ask him about certain
7:00
trails or ask him, "Can you get to this
7:02
or can you get to that?" He knew it.
7:04
>> man. So Duck Duck in himself we could do
7:06
like five episodes easy of just Duck
7:08
himself on You've got tons of stories on
7:11
him. But take me back to
7:14
um
7:15
when you get to just outside the Gila, I
7:18
guess. And you had mentioned this
7:20
before. You are packing in.
7:23
>> Yeah.
7:23
>> So you have mules.
7:24
>> Uh-huh.
7:25
>> And you are going in from
7:29
>> trailhead.
7:29
>> The trailhead. How far are you packing
7:32
in?
7:33
>> Uh close to 21 miles. So
7:37
when I first pulled up out there and the
7:39
trailhead is right by the Gila River.
7:42
And there's mountains all around.
7:45
And when I got out of the pickup, I'm
7:47
thinking,
7:48
"This is why I came this far. This is
7:50
why I did this."
7:52
My first time to ever smell mountain air
7:54
with the pine in it, you know, it'd come
7:55
a little old shower the evening before.
7:57
Things were fresh. The river was
7:59
rolling.
8:01
All the mules and horses sitting out
8:02
there in them pens, and uncle said, "Uh
8:05
here we going to have something to eat."
8:07
And I'm going to tell you something
8:08
about him, too. He was tight.
8:10
When there weren't no hunters in camp,
8:13
you'd have a lot of corned beef hash out
8:15
of a can and a cold tortilla. You know,
8:17
he wasn't going to spend no money on
8:18
you.
8:19
But,
8:21
the next morning,
8:23
when hunters we'd tell them be there by
8:24
8:30, 9:00 that morning, and we'd tell
8:27
them, "You need to be experienced to
8:29
know how to ride."
8:31
And
8:32
when you're talking about packing,
8:35
you have what's called
8:36
paniers,
8:38
which hang off a sawbuck, which are sort
8:40
of like a saddle, and it's got crossed
8:44
pieces at the front and back to where
8:45
you hang your paniers on.
8:48
>> So, you've got two big saddle bags
8:49
hanging off of each side of the mule.
8:51
Okay.
8:52
>> And
8:53
you'd cross the Gila River, and it it'd
8:56
begin to climb pretty steep there for a
8:58
little bit, then you'd level out, you
9:00
know.
9:01
And I was just looking, taking in all
9:02
the country, and I said, "Thank you,
9:03
God. This is why I came. I get to see
9:06
this, you know."
9:08
And you I rode a lot in my life. You
9:11
know, I've been on horseback since I was
9:12
7, 8 years old.
9:15
But, 21 mi, your butt begins to hurt,
9:17
you know. I done sat in the pickup 11
9:19
hours the day before.
9:20
>> How long does 21 mi take on a mule?
9:23
>> Well, if you don't have a wreck, you do
9:25
stop.
9:27
We'd stop at Prior Creek,
9:29
water,
9:30
mules and horses.
9:31
And some of them hunters would say, "Oh
9:33
God, I'm going to have to get off. I get
9:35
I'm I'm hurting, you know."
9:37
And I you'd let him walk around me. I'd
9:38
say, "Hey, we can't tarry long. One
9:41
thing I don't like to do is ride in the
9:42
dark,
9:43
you know?"
9:44
And if we could leave out of there by
9:46
9:00, we could be to camp by
9:49
5:00, you know?
9:51
And that's just at a pretty good as
9:53
uncle called it a pretty good jig, you
9:56
know? A mule a lot of times will have a
9:58
shuffle.
9:59
And old Emma had a good She could make a
10:01
horse trot to keep up. And
10:03
and she's just like a recliner. And I
10:05
had a little mule that I took out there
10:07
named Pee Wee, and he was smooth as he
10:09
could be.
10:10
And um
10:11
but every time it's hard to check your
10:13
load. The only time sometimes you could
10:15
see them was when you was going
10:17
around switchback.
10:19
You were coming around, you could see
10:20
the last one there, you know? So, you'd
10:22
check your load.
10:24
And you never knew what you was going to
10:25
run into.
10:26
Uh they could be a bear.
10:29
Uh
10:29
they could be somebody in the way.
10:32
Uh a mule would always sense it, you
10:35
know, if it was something that
10:37
he wasn't sure of, cuz they'd
10:39
lay them old long ears out there like a
10:41
pointer bird dog.
10:44
You know? And I'd say, "What is it, Pee
10:46
Wee?" And you couldn't see it, but he
10:48
could smell it.
10:49
You know?
10:51
The The worst one to me was a a guy
10:54
coming down
10:56
and he was had two llamas he was
10:58
packing.
10:59
>> Oh, why?
11:00
>> Cuz I guess he liked them.
11:03
And uh
11:05
scared them mules to death.
11:06
>> Oh, cuz they never seen one.
11:07
>> And I told him I said, "You got to
11:08
move." And he said, "I was on this trail
11:10
before you was."
11:12
Well, he pulling two, and he ain't going
11:13
to have much wreck, but if you ever pull
11:15
off pulling a string behind you, and
11:18
you've got to wait so long, somebody's
11:20
going to get tangled around here,
11:21
somebody's going there. I finally did
11:22
get him convinced to move, you know? But
11:25
you get to camp,
11:27
and we come across a big meadow
11:29
called Lilly Park. know. That part of it
11:32
was named after a man Ben Lilly. Muggy
11:34
on rim is not too far.
11:36
It's just
11:37
I couldn't even have dreamed of a
11:39
prettier place, you know, when you get
11:42
there. I know no one's going to unload,
11:43
get the hunters, you know, situated. But
11:47
you you turn the horses and the mules
11:50
loose.
11:51
But not just free.
11:53
>> Yeah.
11:53
>> You know, because if you got a picket
11:55
line, which is rope tied from a tree to
11:57
a tree,
11:58
they can stay there so long, but they go
12:00
to tear up the ground. Forest Service
12:02
don't like it. So, you would hobble
12:03
them, put a bell on one of them's neck,
12:05
and turn them loose. That way you could
12:07
find them.
12:08
And then it's he throwed out the stuff,
12:10
Uncle did.
12:12
A Dutch oven.
12:14
And two skillets.
12:15
>> Yep.
12:15
>> And another Dutch oven.
12:17
>> Had you cooked in a Dutch oven?
12:19
>> I'd seen pictures of one.
12:20
>> Okay, so that's a no.
12:21
>> Yeah.
12:22
And um
12:24
he told me, said, "Uh when it hit the
12:25
ground out there," he said, "Uh
12:27
I know you can cook cuz your mama taught
12:29
you."
12:30
Mama didn't teach me to cook in no Dutch
12:32
oven.
12:33
>> Did panic set in at any point here?
12:36
>> I'm hoping that they don't their their
12:38
standards aren't high, you know.
12:41
I knew how to make biscuits, you know, I
12:43
knew how to cook in the house.
12:44
>> here's the thing, cooking outside and
12:47
the technique of cooking in a Dutch oven
12:50
is completely
12:52
a different animal.
12:54
So, you could be the greatest chef in
12:55
the world in a commercial kitchen and go
12:58
outside.
12:59
>> Mother Nature going to play with you.
13:01
>> It Yeah. So, did you Had you made a
13:04
menu?
13:06
>> He had the groceries that we had cuz see
13:08
these hunters are 5 days.
13:10
>> So, was it kind of like a chopped
13:12
basket? It's like, here's the groceries,
13:13
what are you going to make?
13:14
>> We had some, you know, for for meat, we
13:17
had some chicken. We had some elk meat
13:19
that he had got. We had some bacon. We
13:22
had some sausage. We had some steak.
13:24
>> Well, yeah, but with all
13:25
with
13:25
>> all the ingredients, so there wasn't a
13:27
strict menu that like you had created
13:29
beforehand?
13:30
>> I didn't.
13:32
>> Wow.
13:33
>> And cuz I didn't know what we was even
13:34
going to have, you know? He just told me
13:37
I was going to cook.
13:38
>> So you kind of you're like, "Okay,
13:39
here's some steak and here's some canned
13:41
beans and I'll just make a meal?"
13:43
>> Yeah, and um
13:45
after he got all that out, he said,
13:47
"You know, you
13:48
fry that chicken and make some biscuits
13:50
and gravy."
13:52
And I'm thinking,
13:53
"You fry that chicken and make some
13:55
gravy and we're going to have some
13:56
mashed potatoes and we ain't going to
13:57
have a piece of light bread. You know,
13:58
I'm not making no biscuits tonight. 5:00
14:01
going to be dark in 45 minutes."
14:03
So I found a chicken,
14:05
built me a fire, got that cast iron
14:06
skillet out there, you know? Then we had
14:08
one two little old pots and I boiled me
14:11
up some potatoes and uh
14:12
>> No, I can see it like the skillet
14:14
cooking over fire. That's
14:15
>> yeah.
14:16
>> That's no biggie.
14:16
>> Yeah, I've done that hunting.
14:17
>> But it's the baking.
14:18
>> Yeah.
14:19
>> That's another
14:20
>> And uh
14:21
got all that done, washed dishes,
14:23
everybody got settled in, you know?
14:25
Cuz he He told me I need to be up at
14:27
2:30.
14:29
And I said, "What time they going to
14:30
hunt?" He said, "Light."
14:32
I said, "Well, light's at 6:00. How come
14:35
2:30?"
14:36
He said, "Well, you got to go find the
14:37
mules,
14:38
bring them back up here, feed them, then
14:40
you got to make breakfast."
14:42
And I was thinking we might have
14:44
Pop-Tarts, you know? Maybe a donut. And
14:47
uh
14:48
he did He had all the ingredients that
14:51
you needed, you know?
14:53
He said um
14:54
"I think you make some scrambled eggs,
14:56
some biscuits, and some sausage."
14:59
Well, I just went back to Mama's old
15:02
biscuit recipe. You know, easy as it
15:04
could be.
15:05
2:30 I went got my flashlight, wandered
15:07
off down there to like it here old Emma
15:10
in the bell ringing. And cuz usually
15:12
when you'd catch one, rest of them
15:13
follow you back to camp like a milk cow.
15:15
And um
15:17
built me a fire,
15:19
made some bread, put them in that Dutch
15:21
oven and I'm thinking
15:24
how we going to cook this?
15:25
>> Well, so are you a little bit like,
15:27
"Hey, I can figure this out, no
15:29
problem." Or you thinking, "I don't know
15:32
what I'm doing."
15:33
>> Well, I I'd seen pictures of people
15:34
cooking in one of them.
15:36
>> I see that's the theme.
15:37
>> Yeah.
15:37
>> You've seen a picture.
15:39
>> So, I had me a fire and we was burning
15:41
oak at the time, which is scrub oak, one
15:44
very big, probably 2 in round, you know.
15:47
And I'm thinking I'll just set this in
15:49
them coals and then I'll put me some
15:52
fire on top, you know, make me a oven.
15:55
And I and I knew bread needed to rise.
15:58
>> Yeah.
15:58
>> I made it at 3:20, was going to eat at
16:00
5:00.
16:02
And
16:03
I boiled up some coffee.
16:05
I was sitting out there drinking me some
16:06
coffee and the uncle got up about 4:00
16:09
and he said,
16:10
"Mules fed?" I said, "Yeah." "Breakfast
16:13
started?" I said, "Bread is made."
16:15
>> And you're are you feeling a little
16:16
cocky at this point?
16:17
>> a little I'm feeling pretty good right
16:18
now, you know, cuz my first night out
16:21
there and going and finding the mules, I
16:23
didn't get eat by a bear, I didn't get
16:25
lost, I'm thinking, I'm in good shape.
16:28
And uh
16:30
that bread had been in them Dutch ovens
16:31
and it's a
16:32
little 12-in Dutch oven, had about 10
16:35
biscuits in it, you know.
16:36
And uh
16:38
I cut them probably, I don't know,
16:40
they's inch inch thick, you know.
16:43
Had me some butter in there, sopped them
16:45
really good on both sides.
16:48
Had them sitting over there.
16:50
Pulled lid off in about 40 minutes and
16:52
they still
16:53
>> whoa, whoa, whoa. So, you put them
16:54
directly in the fire?
16:56
>> No, I'm letting them rise.
16:57
>> them rise, okay, got you. Sorry.
16:58
>> About 40 minutes and I pulled lid off of
17:00
them and they ain't changed.
17:02
And it's like in the 40s,
17:03
>> Yeah.
17:04
>> that morning, so I'm thinking, I'll move
17:05
them close to fire.
17:07
And cuz mama always said she'd put hers
17:10
on top the oven with the oven on low.
17:12
They just they weren't rising.
17:14
And I
17:15
I put baking powder in there, I know I
17:18
did, you know. I'm going back through
17:20
this recipe and I'm like
17:21
>> Why isn't it working?
17:22
>> And I don't understand. And I'm thinking
17:25
they'll rise when I cook them.
17:27
So
17:29
I
17:30
got me some eggs and went scrambled
17:32
them, you know, put me some green
17:34
chilies in there that uncle had and then
17:38
I fried up some sausage patties and I'm
17:40
thinking I'll get
17:42
get that bread on.
17:43
>> Yeah.
17:44
>> So
17:45
had me a pretty good size fire which had
17:47
a little wire rack over it, you know,
17:49
fire rack that you could put skillet on.
17:52
And I just scooped a bunch of them coals
17:54
outside there
17:55
in the fire ring and thinking
17:59
preheat the oven to 400° and I set them
18:02
on there.
18:02
>> So you set the oven directly on the
18:04
coals, put coals on top of the lid and
18:06
you're thinking
18:08
it'll ding when it's done.
18:10
>> I got this, mate. Them hunters going to
18:12
be so proud, you know.
18:15
Well, I knew that the bottom of that
18:17
oven had to be hot. Really hot, you
18:20
know.
18:21
So I'd get me a fork and periodically
18:24
pull the bottoms up.
18:26
>> Yeah.
18:26
>> These biscuits ain't even an inch high
18:28
no more, Shannon. They shrunk a little.
18:29
They're like 7/8 of an inch and they
18:33
they beginning to brown on top,
18:35
you know. And I
18:37
picked the bottom up again and I'd look
18:39
and they ain't like they weren't cooked.
18:41
I let them cook a little more
18:43
and then I finally just took them off
18:45
and I'm thinking whatever they are, they
18:46
are, you know, because now
18:49
when I thought I could make it, stuff
18:51
was sort of draining out.
18:52
>> reality click kicks in.
18:54
>> Yeah. And uh
18:55
>> Did they have high hopes, do you think?
18:57
Like if if they're buying into this
18:59
experience, are they thinking they're
19:01
getting a five-star dining
19:02
>> Well, I thought they
19:03
>> package as well?
19:04
>> I think they
19:05
I think they thought they were going to
19:07
eat better than what they got to eat
19:08
this first meal.
19:09
>> Especially, did you tell them that you
19:11
were their first?
19:13
>> No.
19:13
>> Yeah, that's probably why.
19:14
>> they figured that out pretty quick, you
19:16
know.
19:17
But uh
19:18
>> This was your first rodeo.
19:19
>> So we had this little old portable table
19:21
and I put the plates up there and the
19:23
coffee up there.
19:25
Set the eggs up there, set the sausage
19:28
up there, went over there and got my
19:29
Dutch oven.
19:31
>> Are you still feeling confident?
19:32
>> Well,
19:33
>> You're like, "Hey,
19:34
>> I don't think I burned them very much on
19:36
the bottom. They're edible,
19:37
>> Okay.
19:38
>> and um
19:39
and I laid them out there and and they
19:41
sort of dinged when they hit the plate.
19:43
>> Oh, you can hear the
19:44
>> Yeah, tkink.
19:45
>> tkink
19:46
>> [laughter]
19:47
>> And they
19:48
they came in there like 7/8 of an inch.
19:50
Looked like a hockey puck.
19:51
>> Yeah.
19:52
>> You know.
19:53
>> That's what 8,000 ft will do to you.
19:55
>> And uh I didn't know that at the time.
19:57
>> No, that's a that's trick we we learn.
19:59
>> And them hunters was eating and one of
20:01
them took a bite and it I mean it wasn't
20:03
>> brick tooth
20:03
>> It wasn't like hard tack, you know.
20:05
>> Yeah.
20:06
>> And uh
20:07
he said,
20:08
"This flatbread?"
20:10
I said, "It is today. I don't know what
20:13
it's going to be tomorrow, you know."
20:15
And um
20:17
everybody ate. I think they didn't
20:19
complain. I think they were just glad to
20:20
have it in a way, you know. And it
20:22
wasn't that they tasted bad, they just
20:24
weren't light and fluffy like I usually
20:25
make at home.
20:26
>> Here's the thing I love about Dutch oven
20:28
cooking though.
20:29
In most situations, obviously you're
20:31
outside, you're with you're cooking with
20:34
coals.
20:35
Usually it's in this kind of more of a
20:37
social setting.
20:38
>> Yeah.
20:38
>> So
20:39
the food itself is almost like a
20:42
secondary or third item. What's great
20:44
about it is you're all outside, you're
20:47
sharing this meal together, and it's
20:49
just impressive that you're cooking
20:51
something
20:52
in this primitive [clears throat]
20:54
source.
20:54
>> Yeah, and um
20:55
>> Like that's what's cool. So I think
20:56
people have a little bit of a a cushion
20:58
when when doing that. Like
20:59
>> As we were taking hunters that first
21:01
day, my mind is not so much on the
21:03
hunters at that time. It's how can I fix
21:05
breakfast? How can I make this something
21:08
that it wasn't? Yeah. You know.
21:10
And there was out of the 12 biscuits,
21:14
I'd say eight of them was pretty dark on
21:16
the bottom, you know.
21:18
And I'm thinking I I got to find a find
21:20
some way to
21:22
raise it up off them coals, you know,
21:24
cuz that's too hot.
21:25
>> Interesting, yeah.
21:26
>> And uh
21:28
then I got to remembering a little bit
21:29
of chemistry,
21:31
you know. I had a great chemistry
21:32
teacher, Oglethorpe McGee. Taught you a
21:34
lot of things and uh
21:37
I was trying to think what
21:40
what it Why ain't these ain't this bread
21:42
rising?
21:43
And then when I would be climbing up one
21:45
them mountains a little that morning,
21:46
I'd think,
21:50
I know why the bread ain't rising.
21:51
>> There's no air up here.
21:52
>> God turned the air off, [laughter] you
21:54
know.
21:55
And uh cuz I was in great shape at 28
21:57
years old. I could run forever. And that
21:59
country hurt.
22:00
>> That's an equalizer.
22:01
>> And I'm thinking
22:04
the atmosphere got to have something to
22:05
do with that, you know.
22:07
And if baking powder makes something
22:10
rise, but it's not activating enough to
22:13
go because
22:15
you got to have a jump start.
22:18
So, we got back that day. I went to
22:19
digging through them pinyards. I found
22:21
some baking soda.
22:24
And I'm thinking
22:25
if you put baking soda
22:28
with baking powder, baking soda is a
22:30
elevating effect as well.
22:32
>> And then you had an acid with it and
22:34
activate.
22:35
>> So, I'm thinking this might be better
22:37
tomorrow.
22:37
>> So, really
22:39
you're teaching yourself on the fly.
22:42
>> Yes.
22:44
>> How to cook with all these different
22:47
elements going on, all this newness.
22:49
And so, you just really your game plan
22:53
is just to keep tweaking until you
22:56
figure it out.
22:58
>> I mean, it's it's just like riding a
22:59
rocking horse. You You saddle him up
23:01
that morning, he you off the first time,
23:04
you're not you don't think, well, I
23:05
ain't getting on him no more, you know.
23:08
Daddy said we had we had to get him
23:09
broke to ride.
23:10
And he might buck you off again the next
23:12
day, but there's eventually comes a day
23:15
when you're going to win.
23:17
>> How would How many meals would you say
23:19
you went through until you started
23:22
feeling more confident like, okay, I
23:23
think I'm figuring this out?
23:25
>> I made bread twice a day because I
23:27
wanted to figure it out.
23:29
>> Interesting.
23:30
>> And the first day
23:32
was not good.
23:34
The second day at breakfast, I'm
23:36
thinking I'm
23:37
I'm still going to use this same recipe.
23:39
I'm going to make some more baking
23:42
powder, more baking soda, but
23:46
I'm going to add some more flour to it.
23:48
>> Mhm.
23:49
>> And these biscuits, when I cut them, I
23:51
cut them like 2 in. I mean
23:53
>> like, I'm going to give them all the
23:54
help they can get.
23:55
>> I'm going to make these biscuits go to
23:57
top, you know.
23:59
And I got three rocks that was about the
24:01
same size.
24:03
And I put that Dutch oven on the rocks,
24:06
and then I'm thinking
24:07
cuz the biscuits that burnt were in the
24:09
middle of the pot because I was sitting
24:11
directly in the fire, you know.
24:13
There's not a knob on one of them that
24:15
says 350. There's not a little timer
24:18
that says, "Dang, I'm done."
24:20
And nobody I mean, I would have loved to
24:22
have a like a cell phone
24:24
and called 911
24:27
and say,
24:28
"I need some help with this bread."
24:30
>> And where the Pillsbury Doughboy, man,
24:31
you know?
24:32
>> But
24:33
the bread rose that day.
24:36
But Kent cooked it too fast. It didn't
24:38
burn on the bottom. It's brown on the
24:40
bottom, brown on top, little raw in the
24:42
middle.
24:43
>> So, this whole thing is like a science
24:44
experiment, right? You get these little
24:46
moments of hope and and then you're
24:48
like, okay, now I just need to tweak
24:50
this and tweak this.
24:51
>> And I appreciate them too, hunters. You
24:53
know, they didn't shoot me or nothing.
24:54
You know, they they'd pull the tops off
24:56
them biscuits and say, "Hey, now this
24:58
you're getting better." You know, and I
24:59
said, "Well, there's always tomorrow."
25:01
>> had to have appreciated it too, because
25:03
that's hard. Outdoor cooking, Dutch oven
25:07
cooking, especially at elevation, that's
25:09
no joke.
25:09
>> got to remember too,
25:11
I was going and catching mules.
25:13
>> You Yeah, you were
25:14
>> It was just me and Uncle the first year.
25:16
Wasn't newbie, wasn't nobody else. Catch
25:18
the mules, feed the mules, cook the
25:19
breakfasts, help guide the hunters,
25:21
quarter elk, pack elk, skin elk.
25:23
>> Is this camp with these hunters 2 weeks?
25:27
>> No, 5 days. Then you would
25:28
>> then you go and get another group.
25:30
>> Yeah.
25:30
>> So this round that you were out there
25:32
was for 2 weeks?
25:34
>> Yeah, well, we we went we had them for 5
25:36
days, took them out. We had a day off
25:38
there at the trailhead. They'd come in,
25:40
you take them back. Another set.
25:42
>> So you just had two groups
25:43
>> Two two 5-day hunts apart.
25:46
>> But you had done this for a few seasons
25:47
afterwards, so, but
25:49
>> But it's uh
25:51
by the time that first 5 days was over,
25:53
>> Yeah.
25:55
>> I was feeling a little cocky.
25:56
>> Yeah.
25:57
>> Yeah, I mean
25:57
>> And rightfully so then at this point.
25:59
>> Well, you know, I really think
26:02
you can get overconfident.
26:05
And sometimes it will back up and bite
26:07
you in the butt. You learn from that.
26:09
It's It's good always in life to think
26:11
you can do it and you can do it. And
26:13
when you find finally master it, then
26:15
don't be like a little banty rooster
26:17
with your chest bowed out all time
26:19
saying, "Yep, I can cook me some bread
26:21
in the hinterland wilderness. I can cook
26:23
anywhere in the world, you know, because
26:24
something will happen."
26:26
>> Yep.
26:26
>> But it It was better. But my goal for
26:29
the second hunt
26:31
>> was my layer cake.
26:32
>> [laughter]
26:34
>> No, unless Becky Campbell had one at the
26:36
store, I'm going to make a pie.
26:39
>> Ooh, okay.
26:40
>> I mean, I knew how to make pie crust.
26:42
>> You started just slowly challenging
26:44
yourself with more baked items.
26:47
>> We had the same biscuit recipe
26:49
for them first 5-day hunts twice a day.
26:52
Oh, my god. I never changed
26:53
>> It's a lot of carbs.
26:54
>> I wanted to master a biscuit in a Dutch
26:56
oven.
26:57
>> Yeah.
26:57
>> They still sometimes they would be a
26:59
little brown, you know, but I finally
27:01
figured out you don't need as much heat
27:03
on the bottom. You don't need as much
27:05
heat on the top.
27:06
And you just have to wait, you know.
27:09
>> Ooh, patience, huh?
27:11
>> Yeah, I mean
27:12
cuz I remember putting them on the first
27:14
day and setting them in that fire and
27:16
looking at my watch and thinking 25
27:18
minutes.
27:19
>> When we used to teach cooking school,
27:21
that was the number one thing that we
27:23
would teach, remember? And this was so
27:24
hard for people. When they came into
27:26
camp, we said, "Hello, welcome
27:28
everybody. We need you to take off your
27:30
watch and put it back in your teepee
27:32
because there is no time here. There's
27:34
camp time. It doesn't matter There's
27:36
sunrise and sunset. Everything else
27:38
doesn't matter. When you cook biscuits,
27:40
you've got it in your head that it's
27:42
going to take, you know, 12 15 minutes,
27:45
not outside, not in a Dutch oven." And
27:47
that was really hard for people to get a
27:49
hold of.
27:50
>> I think in a way that Uncle
27:52
wasn't too impressed with my cooking. I
27:54
mean, it wasn't bad,
27:56
but he's he was impressed with my
27:58
stamina
27:59
and my integrity
28:01
and my work because
28:04
both them hunters killed a nail.
28:07
Both them hunters I skinned a nail. Both
28:09
them hunters I took a meat saw and sawed
28:11
all the way through the backbone.
28:13
Cut them between the first and second
28:14
rib. All four quarters weigh the same.
28:17
You pack them out. You get them up to
28:19
camp. Then you got to pack them back
28:20
down to the trailhead.
28:21
>> And make biscuits.
28:22
>> And make biscuits, you know.
28:24
Uh
28:25
>> I'm curious, [clears throat] was one of
28:27
your goals going into this
28:30
is to gain the appreciation of Uncle
28:32
Duck?
28:34
>> Yeah, I mean
28:36
he had a he had two a two-word deal
28:39
that he called everybody that didn't
28:42
come from the mountains.
28:43
>> Oh, what?
28:44
>> Flatlanders.
28:45
>> Oh, flatlanders. So, if you weren't from
28:47
there, were flatlanders.
28:48
>> and I don't know why he always said
28:50
this, but he said, "All flatlanders are
28:51
from Kansas."
28:53
>> Well, it is flat.
28:55
>> I mean, how small Oklahoma is pretty
28:56
flat.
28:57
>> Yep, yep.
28:57
>> Um but
29:00
he doubted me, and I think in a way
29:03
he wanted to show me how rough it was.
29:06
>> Uh-huh.
29:06
>> You know?
29:07
And he wanted to see if I could make it.
29:10
You know?
29:11
I think there was part of him that
29:12
thinks he'll never make it.
29:15
>> Given that you kind of knew that going
29:16
into it, did that change your outlook on
29:19
your ability?
29:21
>> Well, I I knew
29:22
I mean, you always want to make a good
29:24
impression, you know?
29:26
And I my daddy had told told me how to
29:29
work hard, and you never give up. But
29:31
this is very different circumstances in
29:33
a very different place
29:35
uh that I knew nothing about, really.
29:37
And I'm thinking
29:39
I'm going to show
29:41
him
29:42
and them hunters both.
29:44
It may not start out as being the best,
29:47
but before I get through,
29:49
I'm I'm going to be a great cook.
29:52
I'm going to guide elk hunter. I'm going
29:53
to cook for an elk hunter.
29:55
Because already at the end of 5 days,
29:57
these mountains were in my blood.
30:00
They called you hard. You know, this was
30:02
a life that I dreamed about, and I'm
30:04
thinking I want to master this. I want
30:07
people to say
30:08
"Boy, I wish that guy was our guide or
30:10
our cook." You know, and and it gives
30:12
you a fuel and a fire and a passion that
30:14
you think
30:15
you got to do this. No matter what, you
30:17
got to do this.
30:19
>> You know, as you're packing out of this
30:21
first 5-day hunt,
30:24
is your pack load a little lighter now?
30:26
Like, are you feeling more confident,
30:29
more comfortable? What are you What are
30:31
you thinking?
30:33
>> Well, then the mule's load is heavier
30:36
cuz we're packing out elk.
30:37
>> That's true.
30:38
>> But my load is lighter
30:40
because
30:42
I've accomplished something
30:44
that I dreamed about.
30:46
You know, it's um
30:49
it was the ride going out wasn't near as
30:50
long as the ride coming in.
30:52
>> Mhm.
30:53
>> And um
30:54
>> Cuz it's that unknown, right?
30:55
>> Yeah.
30:56
>> When you don't know what's happening, it
30:57
makes things real tough.
30:59
>> Yeah, I mean
31:01
packing is like you said an art form.
31:03
>> Mhm.
31:04
>> And it's
31:05
you can pack a load.
31:07
You go and just like packing life.
31:09
But one thing I learned was packing a
31:11
load, if you ever got a little out of
31:13
balance
31:13
>> Mhm.
31:14
>> you'd get off and as Uncle say, you'd
31:16
follow find a healer load lifler which
31:19
is a rock and you'd put it on the other
31:21
side to even out the load. We would
31:23
weigh these each pannier, you know, to
31:25
make sure it was even. But
31:28
when you go down the trails that you're
31:29
on and you
31:31
it may just be
31:32
smooth sailing and you're packing a load
31:36
first of all, is everything in there you
31:38
need?
31:40
Is your heart in there?
31:42
Do you have the faith in there?
31:44
And do you have that hope
31:47
to succeed?
31:49
Cuz hope
31:51
can get you there
31:53
if you live it.
31:54
>> And hard work
31:55
>> Yes.
31:56
>> takes you the rest of the way.
31:58
>> we're all going to climb a mountain. It
32:00
may not be like the mountains I was
32:01
climbing, but there's always going to be
32:03
circumstances to where
32:05
you have a load and you got to get it up
32:07
there to the top.
32:09
But first of all, you have to remember
32:10
too
32:12
can you help somebody else along the
32:13
way?
32:14
Their load might be too heavy. They
32:16
might stumble and fall. Can you pick up
32:18
their pack and put it on and tote it up
32:20
there?
32:21
That's it's all
32:24
it all goes back to the same thing.
32:27
Being sure-footed like a mule.
32:29
Being able to know how to tie a hitch
32:33
on.
32:34
I mean, if if you don't tie a hitch
32:36
right and your packing a load, you may
32:38
lose that load. But same way in life, if
32:42
you loosen your commitments, you loosen
32:44
your thought process,
32:46
what you're carrying or what you're
32:47
trying to get may fall off and lost
32:50
forever.
32:50
>> Or even if you're if you're working too
32:52
fast.
32:52
>> Yeah.
32:53
>> You make mistakes.
32:54
>> Yeah, it happens.
32:55
>> You got to slow down and really um
32:58
hunker down and focus.
32:59
>> I mean,
33:00
I did two or three more seasons out
33:02
there.
33:03
Got to where I could tie diamond hitch,
33:05
a double diamond hitch, a box hitch. I
33:07
could skin a quarter rail. I could cook
33:09
pies, biscuits, anything in the world
33:11
you want to make. But it all started out
33:14
started really out by chasing a dream, a
33:17
passion. Something that I dreamed that I
33:19
really wanted to do, something that I
33:21
I fell in love with and it's what really
33:24
led me to a wagon.
33:26
Was learning how to cook like this and
33:29
go through it. Because when I got out of
33:31
Hila, the last year I was there, I
33:33
bought a wagon.
33:35
And that's where it all started. But
33:37
it's still packing a load. It's still
33:39
living off the land and it's still
33:41
loving every day.
33:42
>> It was that one load you packed that
33:44
changed the whole trajectory
33:46
>> Yeah.
33:47
>> of your life.
33:47
>> Yeah. And
33:50
pack a load,
33:51
pile it on there, make sure it's level
33:54
because
33:55
you ever get out of balance?
33:57
It happens and then it's hard.
33:59
>> Mhm. But you can get back.
34:01
>> Oh, yeah. Always if you're going to
34:03
finish out that pack right there at the
34:04
top.
34:05
Put the good lord in there. He'll level
34:07
that load for you every time. But I I
34:09
thank you for reliving these memories
34:11
with me.
34:12
>> know some of these stories, so that was
34:14
fun and uh we're going to relive more
34:15
stories next week and every week. So
34:18
>> But uh
34:20
leave us a comment down there below.
34:22
Uh
34:22
let us know
34:23
>> [music]
34:24
>> the load you're packing.
34:25
>> Yeah.
34:26
>> Where you're going with it and be sure
34:29
and help that friend pack a load [music]
34:30
cuz that's what it's really about, and
34:32
believe in yourself, and remember you're
34:34
never alone when you're packing that
34:36
load. [music] We with you and God's with
34:37
you. And And we appreciate y'all so much
34:39
for tuning in. Y'all are not fans, you
34:42
are family to me and Shan.
34:44
But it is with great pride, honor, and
34:46
privilege [music] that I tip my hat to
34:48
all our servicemen and women and all the
34:49
veterans that have kept that old flag
34:51
a-flying.
34:52
We commend you all, we do, and we lift
34:54
you up in prayer daily.
34:56
Rest of you, hey, we just glad y'all
34:58
joined us.
34:59
>> We'll We'll uh do this again next week.
35:02
We look forward to sitting down with
35:03
y'all when you grab your cup, and we'll
35:06
do it again.
35:07
>> See you down the podcast trail.
35:09
>> [music]
35:18
>> Pioneer.
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