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Welcome to Adaptable | Behavior Explained! Unlock the power of emotional connection with EFT Couples Therapy. Join us in this transformative journey to deeper love and understanding. Explore how this evidence-based approach can rekindle your relationship's flame. 🔥
I'm Kelly O'Horo, Attachment based EMDR Therapist, EMDRIA Consultant, and Advanced Trainer. I'm a mom of 5, Nonna of 5, wife, and a healer. I have the honor of spending my workdays walking along side people while they brave their healing journeys. I try to live with the generous assumption that we're all doing the best we can with what we know. Therapists are teachers for the "life stuff" and "emotional vocabulary" that may not have been learned due to gaps in our care givers capabilities. In the last 15 years I've learned that people are freaking amazing, resilient, and inspiring. Most importantly, we are hardwired for connection and for healing!
I hope to bring an authentic, compassionate, and unpolished approach while we explore a variety of topics such as parenting, marriage, relationships, dating, trauma, attachment, adoption, depression, addiction, anxiety, and love! There's a why for all behaviors and an explanation that makes perfect sense as emotion is at the root of it all.
-- Links --
https://linktr.ee/kellyohorolpc
https://youtu.be/rLnARKekvgo
https://www.emdria.org/find-an-emdr-therapist/
Register for Justine's Hold Me Tight Workshop -
https://www.eventbrite.com/e/757976848157?aff=oddtdtcreator
#EFTCouplesTherapy #LoveAndConnection
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0:01
foreign
0:07
I'm Kelly ohoro and this is adaptable
0:10
Behavior explained hi everybody thanks
0:13
for tuning in today we're going to talk
0:15
with Miss Justine Bond who is an EFT
0:18
couples therapist and we're going to
0:20
learn a little bit more about how
0:22
awesome that therapy is why it works so
0:24
well with the MDR therapy and other
0:27
modalities that are attachment based and
0:29
bottom up and so without further Ado I
0:32
would like to tune in to Justine who is
0:36
going to be joining me today so Justine
0:39
tell me a little bit about yourself yeah
0:41
I like I said I'm an EFT therapist I'm
0:44
also in the process of getting EMDR
0:46
certified and I'm almost there with a
0:48
few little Hoops to go through
0:51
um yeah I primarily work with couples
0:53
and adults I work with the lifespan
0:54
because I'm a licensed associate
0:56
marriage and family therapist
0:58
um but yeah I I really have a soft spot
1:01
for couples and working with
1:02
relationships and trying to get them
1:05
more to feel connected instead of the
1:07
disconnection that couples often come in
1:09
with sure what do you love so much about
1:11
it I think
1:13
when couples come in and say
1:16
we have this problem and it's X Y or Z
1:20
and I look at it as
1:22
well tell me more about how you talk
1:24
about X Y or Z and we're able to zoom
1:26
out and we start to see things so
1:28
differently and each partner can drop in
1:31
and hear that and you see this shift
1:33
between couples it's so beautiful and I
1:36
think that's what I love most about this
1:38
type of work that's awesome what I love
1:40
about EFT I mean I'm in EFT trained
1:43
therapist as well I've been through the
1:46
externship and that's the modality I use
1:47
along with EMDR therapy when I work with
1:49
couples as well but what I love so much
1:52
about it is it marries so well with AIP
1:54
which is the Adaptive information
1:56
processing model because it's it's
1:59
it's like we're hardwired to connect
2:02
we're hardwired to heal and I love that
2:05
the attachment system that is needed in
2:08
the relationship with an EMDR therapist
2:10
is also so uh focused on and and Primal
2:14
to the efficacy of EFT therapy I love
2:17
that about you know using what's
2:19
hardwired and built into US biologically
2:21
because I think that rn8 sense for
2:23
healing is so much more available when
2:26
we when we use the relationship as part
2:28
of the healing and reparative experience
2:30
so tell me about a little bit about the
2:36
the goal of of EFT couples work it's to
2:40
come more from a place of like I said
2:42
feeling that disconnection and becoming
2:45
more connected
2:48
the goal is not necessarily
2:51
to tell a couple okay we're gonna stay
2:53
together or we're not we have to talk
2:55
about everything that's in between and
2:57
sometimes what that can look like is
2:59
going to these deeper places as I
3:02
mentioned before that couples don't
3:04
always hear each other say in the
3:05
context of maybe their arguments got it
3:08
right that makes sense so something that
3:11
I I tell clients a lot is
3:14
they come in complaining about their
3:16
partner and how their partner isn't
3:18
making them feel a certain kind of way
3:20
and they're blaming their partner for
3:21
their emotional experience and I I think
3:24
what I love about EFT is it the theory
3:27
understands that I have to have a
3:29
healthy independent eye another healthy
3:32
independent eye so that we can make a
3:34
collective interdependent we and I love
3:36
that we come from the same stance about
3:40
what's necessary for efficacy and
3:42
healing and that it's not the
3:43
responsibility of our partner to make us
3:46
feel okay nobody's responsible for our
3:48
okayness right but we can help to
3:50
co-regulate one another and so it's
3:54
it's necessary to understand where do I
3:56
stop and where do you start and how can
3:58
we use one another in an interdependent
4:00
way
4:01
to connect with one another and
4:03
ultimately find secure earned attachment
4:06
at some point hopefully right and I know
4:07
you're going to talk about that a little
4:08
bit absolutely so so tell me what is EFT
4:11
therapy I mean if you were to explain it
4:14
to like the lay person out there and
4:15
they want to go to couples work and they
4:17
want to talk
4:19
um they're trying to find a therapist
4:20
how what makes EFT different explain to
4:23
me how you understand it so EFT
4:26
emotion Focus therapy right first of all
4:30
I think we should start with saying Sue
4:32
Johnson who's the creator of EFT in her
4:34
book love sense and hold me tight the
4:36
two books I often recommend to couples
4:39
she talks about how effective EFT is I
4:42
mean couples come out of an EFT
4:43
treatment modality ninety percent of
4:46
them start to feel better and 70 to 75
4:49
percent go from relational distress to
4:52
no longer experiencing that like those
4:53
are big numbers right and I think that
4:57
speaks to the underpinnings of EFT which
4:59
is all about attachment Theory and that
5:01
lens that EFT therapist conceptualized
5:03
from right we've learned things from our
5:07
earliest models and attachment figures
5:09
on how to handle conflict what healthy
5:12
affection looks like how to communicate
5:14
I mean all the basics how can we not
5:17
take that into our adult relationships
5:19
the good but sometimes the bad right
5:21
yeah we bring what we learned I mean we
5:23
learn how to attach we learn how to
5:26
connect we learn what uh what our
5:30
attachment lessons come from our primary
5:31
caregivers and then we bring in and
5:33
reenact in our relationships For Better
5:36
or For Worse yes what we've learned and
5:37
we bring all of that baggage forward
5:39
right and then we put on to our partners
5:42
expectations or unexpressed expectations
5:45
about how we fit into the relationship
5:48
with someone else right right sure and I
5:50
think a big piece of eft2 is a lot of
5:53
the times we don't come from securely
5:55
attached relationships as children
5:56
wouldn't we love that right we built the
5:59
out of work things would be so much
6:00
easier right but that's not to say that
6:04
we're stuck that way forever and that's
6:05
what it is too what EFT also teaches is
6:08
how do we build a secure bond with your
6:09
partner in this room very experientially
6:12
too to feel it in real time because of
6:15
the neuroplasticity we have with our
6:16
brain we can now recreate a secure
6:18
attachment and that's a big part of my
6:21
job too so bringing in real time and
6:24
emotionally reparative experience Yes
6:26
actually builds
6:29
new neural Pathways yeah because it's
6:31
one thing to send coping skills to say
6:33
do this homework go on a few dates right
6:35
but that's not actually feeling and
6:37
having that felt sense of what secure
6:39
attachment feels like in the room using
6:42
me as that model like I said to slow
6:44
down and really dig in to this
6:46
underneath stuff as I keep referring to
6:48
as part of the process right and as you
6:49
model for a partner through that really
6:52
intimate EFT experience the other person
6:56
is also feeling what it would have felt
6:59
like if they could have shown up that
7:00
way yeah so you're really in real time
7:03
enacting connection as as you'd hope
7:07
that the clients will learn to model
7:08
without you there yep or learn to
7:11
replicate without you there in in the
7:13
future and so we practice here now what
7:16
we don't know how to do alone and
7:18
eventually that starts to build
7:20
patterned Behavior as well which that's
7:22
why people feel better is they're not
7:23
falling into that pattern of you know
7:25
the messy and the yuck so you talked a
7:28
little bit about secure attachment but
7:29
could you explain a little bit more and
7:31
elaborate on attachment Styles in
7:33
general for those who are not familiar
7:35
with that language yeah so there's four
7:38
attachment Styles I talked a little bit
7:41
about secure attachment which is the
7:42
ideal place we all want to be but
7:44
unfortunately a lot of us did not
7:45
necessarily grow up with that a securely
7:48
attached relationship looks like I'm
7:50
allowed I shouldn't say aloud I'm able
7:52
to go explore my environment and I know
7:55
my partner will be there for me when I
7:57
come back and I can depend on them and
7:59
vice versa with our partner we have this
8:01
trust and security with each other we're
8:03
able to regulate ourselves if things do
8:05
feel messy but we can come back together
8:07
and I know my partner will be engaged
8:09
and I can depend on them too and that's
8:11
secure that secure attachment learned in
8:14
early childhood is if I venture out into
8:17
the world and I met with you know the
8:19
stress or I met with things that are
8:21
uncomfortable I have a known sense that
8:23
I'm okay enough and I can come back to
8:25
that secure base where people are where
8:28
people show up in a safe and loving way
8:30
for me and
8:32
parents do the best they can yep and
8:35
oftentimes what we see in our offices
8:37
are not clients who are securely
8:39
attached or at least not all of the time
8:40
yeah absolutely right and so that goes
8:43
into an anxious attachment style right
8:45
right so this comes from a place where
8:46
kiddos sometimes have responsive parents
8:49
but sometimes they don't and we can
8:51
easily say how that can translate into
8:53
an adult relationship sometimes my
8:55
partner will be there for me but what if
8:56
they're not always and something feels
8:58
so familiar about that so I revert back
9:00
and I think about those earlier years
9:02
right must I cling to not be forgotten
9:04
essentially is how I mostly see couples
9:06
who have an anxious attachment style
9:08
yeah and it makes sense to me that if I
9:12
had a childhood where my mom or my dad
9:15
was there sometimes but then they would
9:17
go away depending on what was going on
9:18
in their life it would be so familiar to
9:21
me to find a partner that perhaps
9:25
reenacted some of those same behaviors
9:27
because I know how to fit into this
9:29
puzzle I know how to do this this is
9:30
what I'm used to right and so I probably
9:33
attract someone that feels familiar and
9:36
they do in one way shape or form
9:38
something like one of my parents did or
9:40
one of my primary caregivers did and so
9:43
now I fall right into that pattern and
9:45
so my my anxious attachment style it's
9:48
just expected yeah absolutely you know
9:51
makes sense I can speak a little from
9:52
personal experience too you know I grew
9:55
up with a very anxiously attached
9:58
style between my parents right and my
10:01
partner currently he came from a very
10:02
securely attached place right so at the
10:05
earlier years in our relationship and
10:06
we've been together for quite a while
10:07
now right but at the earlier years
10:09
before I did my EMDR therapy and all the
10:11
things
10:12
he normally would not text me back right
10:15
away for example and I felt that anxiety
10:17
and it's that same feeling like do you
10:20
remember me can I be here in some way
10:21
I'm here I'm here I'm here that's where
10:23
that comes from seeking that Comfort
10:24
seeking that connection like Assurance
10:26
yeah and he's not doing anything wrong
10:28
right right and so through enough of my
10:30
work we've gotten to a place where we're
10:31
in a very securely attached relationship
10:33
now and he's super validating to that
10:35
process but I think that's a really
10:37
common example that shows up I'm just
10:39
being there for my partner but I'm
10:40
trying to take my space and anxiously
10:42
attach other partner but I need to make
10:44
sure they still know I'm here and I'm
10:45
okay right right but then on the flip
10:47
side with avoid an attachment now right
10:49
this is well I just don't want to make
10:51
anything worse I gotta feel safe somehow
10:53
so I really pull back I really want to
10:56
pull back and just avoid any
10:57
confrontation and we can see how that
10:59
can be a bit messy too in a relationship
11:01
how does that show up in relationships
11:02
what does that look like so your
11:04
experience an avoidant attachment style
11:06
yeah so if couples come in and one of
11:10
the partners is experiencing something
11:12
stressful and they're telling their
11:15
partner how they feel oh my gosh like
11:17
this thing at work has been a lot for me
11:18
lately and I don't know how to handle it
11:20
I wonder if my boss is mad at me and
11:21
this co-worker said this you know and
11:23
and I feel like you're not really
11:24
listening to me right now and tell me
11:26
more partner why aren't you listening to
11:27
me and something is now happening in
11:29
that partner saying oh my gosh am I
11:32
doing something wrong I thought I was
11:33
just listening I don't know so I don't
11:34
want to make it worse so I just don't
11:35
see anything and I get quieter right
11:38
which makes other partner wait are you
11:40
listening and you're getting quieter and
11:41
we can't reach you I can't reach you
11:43
exactly exactly I have to say from a
11:46
personal vantage point I have more of a
11:49
preoccupied anxious stance and you know
11:52
my my parents did the best they could
11:54
and they were there and my mom was
11:57
really really there but if she was under
11:58
extreme duress she has more of a
12:01
shutdown or a flea response and because
12:04
of her story and her upbringing and so I
12:07
know that I'm I uh and again before so
12:10
much EMDR therapy of my own I know that
12:13
that was my activation Point too is if I
12:16
can't reach someone if they won't get
12:17
back to me or or if there was some kind
12:20
of disconnection or conflict that hasn't
12:21
yet had resolution and I don't
12:23
understand what happened yeah an
12:25
avoidant attachment style triggers me so
12:28
much because I'm so desperate to find
12:31
out what happened what did I do what can
12:33
I do to fix it how can I get back in
12:35
connection and so I I have so much
12:38
empathy for people in both stances
12:40
because someone with an avoid an
12:42
attachment style you know they're also
12:44
avoiding the potential risk of rejection
12:47
absolutely and so they stay stay away
12:50
they stay distant they avoid the
12:51
conflict the confrontation because they
12:54
don't want to risk letting someone all
12:55
the way in right for fear that
12:57
eventually just like in their past
12:59
they'll be let down once again right
13:02
well and I think it's important to say
13:03
too often with avoidant attachment
13:06
Styles they had no one even model
13:08
language to them about how to have
13:10
healthy confrontation so I always tell
13:12
Partners we have to give the other
13:13
partner a generous assumption they
13:15
genuinely don't know how they don't have
13:18
the language it's not that they're
13:19
trying to just pull away and avoid
13:21
everything or don't care enough to
13:22
engage with you it's almost like a
13:25
freeze response
13:26
I don't know what to say right now I
13:28
literally have no words I don't know
13:30
what he or she needs and a shame
13:32
response it's a shame response because
13:34
there's a shame spiral if I'm avoiding
13:37
the response or I'm avoiding taking
13:40
accountability or even saying I went
13:42
through a thing yeah and I don't want to
13:44
talk about it or I don't know how to
13:46
talk about it or you hurt me in some way
13:48
shape or form and I have to face that
13:50
and I have to speak up and I have to
13:51
assert myself that you hurt me you know
13:54
I'm thinking of an example where uh and
13:56
I think part of why avoidant attachment
13:58
triggers me is because it doesn't give
14:00
someone an opportunity to take
14:01
accountability absolutely and personally
14:04
I really try to take accountability when
14:06
I mess up I don't I am innately a person
14:08
who doesn't want to be harmful or hurt
14:10
people and so if if I hurt someone
14:12
inadvertently because I was too quick or
14:15
I had an empathic failure and they don't
14:17
come back and say ouch yeah that really
14:19
hurt yeah I feel frustrated because
14:22
they're out in the world now feeling
14:23
hurting and I I don't get to fix it
14:25
right which is it feels irresponsible
14:27
right right and at the same time they're
14:30
not giving me an opportunity they're not
14:32
giving me a generous assumption that I
14:33
would hold space and I'm going I'm over
14:36
here trying so hard it's so anxious
14:37
right so I think that is why I have a
14:40
harder time it's like you need to assert
14:42
yourself go back to the person say hey
14:45
when you did that or when you said that
14:47
it really it really landed wrong it
14:49
really hurt me and maybe they'll show up
14:51
and take accountability right and maybe
14:53
they won't right but you know not to get
14:56
too much on a tangent but also where we
14:58
don't speak up that's where resentment
15:00
lives well and what we call these an EFT
15:03
language are raw spots our partner my
15:06
partner is hitting on a raw spot and in
15:08
that moment we have a choice we can
15:10
choose to communicate that raw spot and
15:12
it's vulnerable and we're putting
15:13
ourselves out there but it also means we
15:16
have a chance for repair connection and
15:19
increase trust because we're talking
15:21
about vulnerability so it's an
15:23
opportunity for so much growth for
15:24
couples too it's where that that's where
15:26
the sweet spot is the repair is where it
15:28
all is where it all happens so raw spots
15:30
are a choice but so much can come from
15:32
it if we just let our partner know you
15:34
tapped on something there right we need
15:36
to talk about that and this isn't just
15:38
for couples relationships I mean this is
15:40
for all relationships when we think
15:42
about our attachment style and we think
15:43
about how we have a predisposition to
15:46
lean in One Direction or another this is
15:48
our growing Edge this is our opportunity
15:49
yeah so for those who have avoided
15:51
attachment Styles we want to encourage
15:53
you to lean in to go and assert yourself
15:56
when someone's hit that raw spot and and
15:59
ask them you know or tell them rather
16:02
don't necessarily have an expectation
16:03
for accountability or an apology right
16:06
but go to them and say this hurt and see
16:08
what happens because if the repair
16:09
happens all the better and I think the
16:12
last attachment style too I want to
16:14
touch on a little bit is the
16:15
disorganized attachment style and this
16:17
is so hard this is so hard and the best
16:20
way to explain it is like my hand
16:21
gestures of like
16:23
come but don't it's this push and pull
16:26
of like I want closeness and I really
16:28
desire that but as soon as it becomes
16:30
too much or overwhelming I'm
16:32
experiencing then I push you away and
16:34
again it's like no come closer but like
16:36
no and it's so hard right yeah like how
16:40
do we be in the Middle with that how can
16:41
my partner respond so that's a tough one
16:44
too and that's that kind of leans us
16:46
into how does it relate when it comes to
16:49
the EFT model this push-pull thing can
16:51
you give us the language and tell us
16:53
what that is yes so from all these
16:55
attachment Styles right we go into this
16:58
place of falling into two roles a
17:00
withdrawal or pursuer typically
17:02
and
17:04
these show up in this negative
17:06
interaction cycle which is language that
17:08
we use in EFT to describe a couple's
17:10
conflict essentially and the withdrawal
17:13
typically pulls away doesn't want to
17:15
make it worse Retreats while the pursuer
17:18
is rooted in a place more of anxiety of
17:20
you're pulling away from me and I need
17:22
closeness to feel connected and I'm
17:24
trying to reach for you and I pursue
17:25
pursue as I pull pull you know we can
17:27
have two pursuers or we keep going at it
17:30
back and forth to try to get heard we
17:32
can have two with jars no risk but no
17:35
one's talking about anything and there's
17:36
a lot of disconnection there too which
17:38
is so lonely yeah and it's the opposite
17:40
of what people are looking for in
17:43
relationship right there's a burning man
17:45
slide I think we'll show it right here
17:47
where there's you know when we have
17:50
conflict and we're in our cycles and our
17:52
negative interaction cycle right it's
17:54
like two little kids sitting with their
17:56
backs you know away from one another
17:58
when all we really want is connection
18:00
and so I just love this illustration so
18:03
much because it just it embodies this
18:06
felt sense of wanting connection so
18:08
deeply and sitting in the corner pouting
18:12
and feeling harmed and hurt and so when
18:15
we come into couples and I know you
18:17
experience this as well one partner is
18:19
blaming the other partner and she she
18:21
and if he would just dot dot dot and
18:24
there's all this projected blame because
18:26
blame is the discharge of our pain and
18:28
discomfort and what I love about the EFT
18:30
model is it's not my fault it's not your
18:34
fault it's the cycle yes exactly it's
18:37
the cycle right against the couple not
18:39
the cycle in between I try to stress
18:41
that so much to couples that you guys
18:42
are on a team against this thing it's
18:45
not you I play with each other it's the
18:46
psych a lot play with you guys you know
18:49
so so that the enemy can be the common
18:51
enemy where we get sucked in is a
18:54
problem man it's not you yeah I made
18:56
Couples name their cycle I say call it
18:57
when you see it name entertainment put
18:59
it out there right how do we bring it
19:01
down a little bit so essentially the
19:03
what's wrong our pursuer role is do I
19:05
numb out or do my armor up to stay safe
19:07
but either way we're not really getting
19:09
anywhere right and I'll go a little bit
19:11
into the negative interaction cycle
19:13
piece with this okay it looks like this
19:15
infinity loop that happens between these
19:17
two roles our alarm Bells go off we're
19:20
triggered by our partner somehow so we
19:22
get reactive and usually this is that
19:24
secondary emotion of anger I get angry I
19:27
get defensive but underneath that is
19:29
usually fear sadness that's the Primary
19:32
Emotion right but those are vulnerable
19:34
things to talk about that probably have
19:35
to do with the raw spot so they don't
19:37
always get talked about first so instead
19:39
we go back up to anger now we get all
19:41
protective right and we start making up
19:42
a story in some way they don't care
19:44
about me I'm always the problem I'll
19:46
never get it right I'm just making it
19:48
worse no matter what I do yep it's never
19:50
enough It's never enough I'll never get
19:52
it yep so then we'll never be happy
19:54
that's what I hear all the time they'll
19:55
never be happy yep so then we get more
19:57
protective and that's where the pursuer
19:59
withdraw really shows up right am I
20:01
going to arm her up and make them look
20:03
at me somehow and be really pursuing am
20:05
I going to pull away because I feel
20:07
really rejected right now or I don't
20:08
want to make it worse or I don't even
20:10
know what to say right and now that set
20:13
of moves triggers our partner and now
20:14
they go through the same thing now their
20:16
alarm Bells go off their feelings and
20:18
it's a chicken egg thing right yeah
20:20
here's where I got pulled in and then
20:22
because of your reaction then you know I
20:26
went into this dance and then you get
20:29
activated by the way I showed up and
20:31
then we're back in in the chase yep yeah
20:33
and and what we do in EFT is break down
20:36
that cycle essentially we name it and we
20:39
say this is really what's happening and
20:40
guys that's actually 90 of the problem
20:42
again going back to the beginning with
20:44
I'm here for X Y or Z that's only ten
20:47
percent we're getting caught in the
20:48
weeds with that stuff right you'll see
20:50
with every argument that you have it
20:52
actually looks like this cycle that's
20:54
the meat of it if we can identify that
20:56
every time how much better would it be I
20:58
joke with my couples I'm going to teach
20:59
you guys to fight really good right well
21:02
it's not just about eliminating fighting
21:05
no right like couples therapy people go
21:07
we're still fighting sure yeah but you
21:09
repair faster you understand the cycle
21:11
and you're able to pull out yep you're
21:14
able to not stay in these days or weeks
21:16
long disconnection but you're able to
21:18
move yourself back into connection which
21:20
is ultimately what we want all the time
21:22
is we want to be in that connection
21:23
you're talking about it for sure I get
21:26
more concerned when couples come in and
21:27
they say we don't fight about anything
21:29
like what are we not talking about here
21:31
right right so so yeah that's a big
21:33
piece of deepening the cycle getting
21:35
underneath a lot of those primary
21:37
emotions underneath all the protection
21:39
and what's really there and how do we
21:41
communicate from that place and it's so
21:43
risky to be in that vulnerable space and
21:45
so you know we we get couples that come
21:48
in and they're so stuck in that blame
21:50
place that anger defense that armored
21:53
place and if people understood that the
21:56
whole purpose of blame is to discharge
21:58
pain and discomfort they would recognize
22:01
likely more quickly in themselves that
22:03
that's where they're stuck is I'm
22:04
hurting and I need to get this out and
22:07
the only way I've ever learned how is to
22:09
be in blame or in anger and ultimately
22:11
protection right which I learned right
22:13
and so EFT is also about unlearning
22:15
those those patterns that we learned in
22:18
our early attachment relationships and
22:20
how to interact with one another yeah
22:22
absolutely so
22:25
having also been trained in EFT have you
22:27
gone through the process or have you
22:29
worked oh my gosh
22:31
a little vulnerability here so my
22:34
husband and I are really adaptive and
22:35
we've been married almost 25 years now
22:37
and we made most of our negative
22:41
interaction style cycle tolerable and we
22:44
manage things and we fell into some
22:46
pretty
22:48
comfortable not super functional ruts
22:51
and during covet
22:53
we had nowhere to go you know I have so
22:57
many external experiences my you know
23:00
working out and being with friends and
23:02
working with clients and all those
23:04
things and what I really realized during
23:06
covet and just being in the house with
23:08
my husband is there were some things
23:10
that we hadn't really figured out yet
23:12
and so we went back to work and went to
23:14
EFT and went to an amazing couple's
23:17
therapist she's outstanding and she just
23:19
was powerful and strong enough to call
23:20
both my husband and I out on our
23:22
and she could hold compassionate space
23:24
at the same time but I can tell you that
23:26
I was formerly such such a pursuer and
23:29
so anxious that my husband would get
23:31
upset he'd withdraw he'd he'd kind of
23:33
stonewall me he'd I call it silent rage
23:36
he didn't say things but he would just
23:38
be distant and disconnected and I felt
23:40
so compelled to chase him down and try
23:43
to get to resolution and typically our
23:45
pattern would be I'd Chase Chase I
23:47
wasn't coming from a vulnerable place of
23:49
like my part and things and he would
23:51
still remain angry and so we would do
23:53
this fight for so long and it would last
23:56
way too long and then until I started
23:58
crying and he got angry and then he felt
24:00
bad and so we would go through this
24:01
piece of uh or this pattern and it was
24:04
just not serving us yeah and so through
24:07
our EFT work think thank God for it and
24:10
I'm so grateful I'm super grateful to
24:11
covid for that because our marriage is
24:13
better than ever and now both of us have
24:15
such a more settled nervous system and
24:18
we both claim securely attached earned
24:21
secure attachment that you know uh is
24:24
pretty is pretty hard to gain from
24:26
really complex stories and we just you
24:29
know we're Relentless in our Pursuit for
24:31
connection and for commitment to one
24:33
another and that was part of our promise
24:35
to each other when we got married was
24:36
we're not going to always know why we're
24:38
together but we promise to work through
24:39
the through the valleys because it's not
24:41
always going to be about Peaks and I'm
24:43
really grateful to to him and our
24:45
couple's therapist yeah for um shout out
24:48
to therapy with heart for their
24:50
awesomeness with their EFT model but um
24:53
ultimately I'm super grateful for my
24:55
experience of becoming securely attached
24:58
in and it was earned hard-earned in our
25:00
marriage so let's let's talk about an
25:03
example with a client situation that's
25:05
common and that everybody could relate
25:07
with you know in how this looks in this
25:10
in a session yeah so I can think of a
25:13
couple where the wife this is a good one
25:16
the wife is known as the pursuer and the
25:19
husband is known as the withdrawal in
25:21
this situation
25:22
he'll say
25:24
and so much gets kicked up in him when
25:27
that happens he gets triggered his alarm
25:29
balls go off am I not doing something
25:31
right is she mad at me for something
25:33
what's happening I might I just can
25:35
never get it right
25:36
he can't tolerate the Huff yes yes so
25:40
alarm Bell right he gets a little like
25:42
frustrated at first but it clearly goes
25:44
to a place of fear for him right then it
25:46
gets to the story of I can't get it
25:48
right you know is she mad at me did I do
25:50
something wrong and then we get
25:51
defensive but his defense looks like
25:53
withdrawing so he gets more quiet and
25:55
she tries to engage him because now
25:57
she's picking up on something right
25:59
right and it's so interesting right
26:01
because it's like all these things that
26:02
are not even said but our bodies are
26:04
just feeling with each other and getting
26:06
so triggered by and so she keeps
26:08
pursuing and he's thinking more now oh
26:10
my gosh now she is mad at me she keeps
26:12
coming to me with this stuff I don't
26:13
know what to say right now I was just
26:15
sitting here and now they're in their
26:17
cycle and they're both running roughshod
26:20
down the tracks to the wrong country yep
26:23
without any facts and they're just
26:25
making up stories about what all of
26:27
those things mean I I hear that a lot in
26:30
in relationships as well and what we
26:32
need to understand in all couples work
26:34
in all in all human relationships if
26:37
both people have to have room for their
26:38
experience and there has to be an
26:40
internal tolerance for the other person
26:42
to not be okay right and for us to be
26:44
able to hold that space and sit with it
26:46
and maybe even just get curious hey you
26:48
just huffed what was that about and they
26:51
might say I just realized I forgot I had
26:54
to do this other thing and so we make up
26:56
all these stories that really don't have
26:58
anything to do with what we're
26:59
experiencing and so if we can just
27:00
approach with more curiosity right we're
27:03
in we're in way better shape right and
27:05
that's usually the case right you know
27:06
not all the time but usually when things
27:08
like this how we make assumptions
27:09
exactly and we we're pretty good at
27:11
making up stories exactly we're
27:13
hardwired for story and so that's what
27:14
we do We're Off to the Races with our
27:16
assumptions yeah for sure absolutely
27:18
well thank you so much so I want to just
27:20
recap a little bit about what we talked
27:22
about we talked about EFT couples
27:25
therapy we talked about attachment
27:27
Styles we talked about pursuer with
27:30
drawer cycles and roles and the negative
27:33
interaction cycle which ultimately is
27:35
the culprit in our discourse and our
27:38
conflict in relationships and so
27:40
hopefully you found that helpful and
27:42
thank you so much for tuning in don't
27:45
forget to lead with love it'll never
27:47
steer you wrong
27:49
foreign
27:53
[Music]
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