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Wealth tax: James O’Brien vs LBC caller ‘who comes from nothing’
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Jul 9, 2025
James O'Brien asks: 'how have we been persuaded that a wealth tax is not a good thing?'. Caller Benjamin attempts to answer that question, defending criticism of the idea, but James remains unconvinced. It comes after Transport Secretary Heidi Alexander refused to rule out a wealth tax during an interview with Nick Ferrari on LBC. Listen to the full show on the all-new LBC App: https://app.af.lbc.co.uk/btnc/thenewlbcapp #jamesobrien #wealth #tax #debate #economy #wealthy #ukpolitics #LBC LBC is the home of live debate around news and current affairs in the UK. Join in the conversation and listen at https://www.lbc.co.uk/ Sign up to LBC’s weekly newsletter here: https://l-bc.co/signup
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0:00
Well, I mean, ideologically, I think you and I disagree, like, a lot
0:04
I listen to you sometimes. For Brexit, I voted to remain on economic terms
0:10
because I worked in finance, looked at the numbers, looked at the logic. I thought it was a terrible idea
0:14
I voted remain, right? So people that believe certain things don't all agree on everything
0:19
Of course. Which I think you sometimes point out. But other than that, the ideology of taxing somebody
0:26
that made something of themselves, I don't know about the laws historically in Britain
0:32
because obviously I was born here to foreign parents. I don't know how that bit of your society works
0:38
But people that come into £20 million through their own hard work, why does anybody feel entitled to go take anything of that
0:46
given that you already paid a 45% a year annually, as is
0:50
to get to that point? Why? Well, for the same reasons that we tax at all
0:56
You're looking at a country in desperate need of finances, in desperate need of money
1:02
and you're asking yourself one very simple question. Where are we going to get it from? Well, how about spending, you know, to our means
1:10
Does that make sense? No. Why not? Well, what are our means
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Our means depend on how much money we've got. Correct. So suggesting that, you know, you could raise income tax
1:24
or you could go after wealth. You could go after money that accrues and grows year after year after year without the owners of that money doing anything
1:32
Well, you said that. My flat in central London is worth less than it was in 2015
1:38
And you work in finance. And I come from a nothing family. I went through, like, scholarship schools in Cambridge
1:46
So that wouldn't be affected by a wealth tax then because it hasn't increased your wealth at all
1:51
And I presume it's not worth over 10. My flat is not worth 10, no. It's not worth over £10 million, and we're exempting primary residences from this tax anyway
2:00
No, I'm just saying there's a lot of people who work for their money, and then they put it into whatever they like, be it property, be it whatever..
2:06
Yes, and then they make more money, so you're taxing them on the money that they make. No but it already been taxed one time at 45 Is that not enough I saying No of course it isn because it hasn been taxed at 45 The amount of money that your flat goes up by and I appreciate you the only person in London who managed to buy a flat that gone down in value over the last 10 years
2:24
No, since Brexit, the flats haven't gone up. You have nothing but sympathy for me for that
2:29
But if you're getting taxed on the amount of money your flat has gone up in value by
2:33
how are you paying income tax on that? Income tax, I pay on my income with which I've bought the flat
2:39
Yeah, but the flat's going up in value, except for you, For everybody else in central London
2:43
The housing has. Flats have not in all of central London. So, yeah, but here's the point
2:47
How are you paying income tax on the increase in your assets? No, no, I'm not talking about that
2:53
Yes, you are. You're saying you're paying it twice. How have you paid income tax on the profits you've made from your assets
3:02
Well, the assets, if you rent them out, you pay taxes on the rental
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If you sell them later, you pay capital gains tax. We're not talking about that. We're asking how you have paid tax on the profits that you've made from your assets
3:15
And I just said it to you. Every year I tax my, I file more taxes and they're rented out
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So I pay tax on the rent. You're renting the property out, so it's not even your primary residence
3:25
Right. And I'm paying tax on that already one time, aren't I? Yes, you are. But you're not paying tax on the profit you make from the rising value of the property
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And if it's not gone up in value, then you won't. No, I'm with you on that
3:37
I'm just saying. I don't understand the point that you think that you're making
3:42
Let's move on. No, go on. No, I understand that, but you don't currently pay any
3:46
So, OK, while we're at it, explain to me how the Duke of Westminster
3:50
has been responsible for building his fortune. No, I just told you the historical..
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But you can't have a free pass on it. I want you to tell me why the Duke of Westminster shouldn't pay a wealth tax
4:02
No, I don't disagree with that necessarily. So I told you, ideologically, we're not opposites at everything
4:08
but you've got to make it work for the better of the country about non-doms leaving
4:13
I know a few that are thinking about. Yes, we all know a few that are thinking
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Do you know any who have left? One family I know went to Dubai already
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just because of the inheritance on their money out. They're Indians, right
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They're like, my money in India has nothing to do with you. And if there's good schooling here, hang on, so it's in Dubai
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So I see you, then off I go. Well sayonara And that baddens me Well does it Yes I mean they come to this country benefit from all it has to offer from all of the infrastructure that been built by centuries of taxpayers
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and as soon as they're asked to do a little bit more for the benefit of the population, they're off. But let's not get distracted
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Why would you, as someone, are you likely ever to be taxed on assets over £10 million
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If you go talk to me in 10 years, I don't know. No, OK. That's the answer, actually
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You've just provided it without me even getting the question out there. So you're thinking about future much richer you
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No, I'm not thinking of them. What I'm thinking about is the good of the country. You are. You just said that
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No, I'm telling you from my heart, right? I said, like, in Brexit, we agreed
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I'm saying mentality of British people, if it was to go make something of yours
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rather than take something of another, we'd do better. This is what John in Edinburgh said. He said this is how the argument works
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You don't talk about the king. You don't talk about the Duke of Westminster. You don't talk about the Earl of Leicester
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You don't talk about any of these fortunes that have been around since 1066, because the only way you can possibly ever protect that inequality
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is by conjuring up people who've just left to go to Dubai
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or some mythical... But what about the American tech fortunes that are like 10 years old
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Well, I think Bill Gates himself has pointed out that if he paid 99% tax, he'd still be a billionaire
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What does he lose, Benjamin? He loses 99% of his work. But he's still a billionaire
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is still one of the richest people in the world. Who sets the cap? Well, everybody cares because they're looking at a country
6:03
that they think needs epic infrastructure investment and where poverty is endemic
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Or better spending of the resources we already have. Pardon? Or better spending of the resources we already have today
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Yeah, I mean... Better management, less waste. Yeah, there we go. Better management, less waste
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All of those things are interesting, but we've been listening to that mantra for 50 years
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Maybe it's time to try something new. We just had 14 years of austerity, mate
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We had 14 years of cuts to everything from police numbers right through to filling in potholes and looking after newborn children
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So we've done all that. We've tried it all. Do you think it's worked? Do you feel better off now as a citizen of this country
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Do you think the infrastructure, the public services, the sense of community, the cohesion is better or worse than it was in 2010
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Sadly, yeah. I'm with you on that. We had 14 years of trying to do what you just decided So why not try something new Can I give you an example No you can Well you can but I just want your help with something else because I glad you began by establishing some common ground that we might have
7:03
Because psychologically, we're clearly very, very different. But I also come from nothing, that's the thing
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Well, yeah, I mean, most people come from nothing, and sadly, most people return to
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nothing, clogs to clogs, within three generations. And that is precise. The reason why that is a figure
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of speech. But I want to give you an example of something else which bothers me too. It's not that kind of phoning
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I want your help in understanding what you think they lose. So if you introduced a wealth tax
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on all people with assets over... I think the liquid people will leave that
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Can you answer a question? I haven't even finished asking it. Yeah. They would still be
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the richest people in the country. They'd still be the richest people in the world. What do they..
7:44
Maybe you have a better insight into that mindset than I do. What do they lose
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by helping everybody else out more. The ones that can run away, pack up and run
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The ones that can't, we might get a share of theirs. No, but why would you want to run away
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That's the bit I don't get. What are they running away from? To lower tax jurisdictions
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Yes, but why? Why do they need so much? Why do they need so much? Why do they need so much
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Human nature, greed, ingrainings of the DNA. It's not, though, is it? It's not, though, you see
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And that's the fascinating thing, because it is for some people. And if you recognise under your own logic that these people are essentially the greediest
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then surely they should be at the very front of the queue for people who the society in which they become incredibly rich should be demanding recompense from
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And what better way to do it than on the benefits of what you've just described as their innate greed than through taxation
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Because the massive majority of people in this country are not motivated by greed
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I mean, I'm not sure if I agree with that No, well, I'm pretty clear on why you wouldn't
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But trust me, that's the problem I mean, and as you said yourself, you'd have to come back to me in ten years and find out how rich I am
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And therein lies John Steinbeck's immortal line about there being no such thing as poverty and Dust Bowl era America
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Just temporarily frustrated millionaires So you get how it works with some people
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How does it work with others
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