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Should Net Zero be scrapped? | LBC debate
Sep 1, 2025
Kemi Badenoch has committed the Tories to extract as much oil and gas as possible from the North Sea. The Conservative Party leader said it was “absurd” to leave the fossil fuel resources untapped. But the Government said issuing new licences for oil and gas exploration would “not take a penny off bills” and would accelerate the “worsening climate crisis”. Mrs Badenoch will use a speech in Aberdeen on Tuesday to set out her plans. She will announce that the Tories plan to completely overhaul the North Sea Transition Authority (NSTA), which oversees the issuing of licences, dropping the word transition and giving it a simple order to extract the maximum possible amount of fossil fuels. Ahead of her speech, Mrs Badenoch pledged that “we are going to get all our oil and gas out of the North Sea”. Ben Kentish sat down for a fiery interview with Tory Shadow Minister Alex Burghart to get his party's opinion on the plan. Listen to the full show on the all-new LBC App: https://app.af.lbc.co.uk/btnc/thenewlbcapp #benkentish #kemibadenoch #northsea #netzero #environment #debate #politics #ukpolitics #lbc LBC is the home of live debate around news and current affairs in the UK.
View Video Transcript
0:00
Let's talk all matters conservatives with Alex Burkhart, Shadow Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster
0:06
Great to have you with us on the programme, Mr Burkhart. Thanks for coming on. Let's start with this announcement from your party leader, Kemi Bade-Noc
0:11
or an announcement that we're told will be made this week. You are going to extract all the remaining oil and gas from the North Sea
0:18
What more can you tell us about how you'll do that? Yeah, so Kemi has..
0:23
Kemi gave a very important speech earlier in the year saying that net zero by 2050 was unachievable
0:29
and had to be said in the context of the US and China
0:33
the world's two largest economies, not pursuing net zero. We were in danger of running down our economy
0:40
putting additional costs on businesses and families and public services by not using our own oil and gas
0:49
And so what she's going to say in this week coming is that we will use the resources in the North Sea
0:55
rather than importing oil and gas from foreign countries and also to help create jobs in places like Aberdeen
1:03
and to try and drive down energy costs for everyone in the UK
1:10
In stark contrast to what's happening under this government where energy bills are going up and up and up
1:16
despite the promise before the election that Labour would bring them down by £300
1:21
It was your party that brought in the net zero targets. It was, it was, and that was in a different context
1:26
There was a hope. What's changed? Well, so there was a hope originally that the very big economies of the world, like the US and China and India, would sign up to this as well
1:38
But in the absence of them doing that, what's actually happening is that those countries have much lower energy costs and are doing much better
1:47
And our country is at risk of being left behind. So the context has changed
1:54
So because Xi Jinping and Donald Trump have turned their back on the importance of tackling climate change, we might as well do the same thing
2:00
Well, when you recognise that I think we account for less than 1% of global emissions, you'll see that without those big countries changing course, our impact is incredibly negligible
2:14
And you're talking about fractions of 1%. Now, we're saying that in the long run, of course, we're going to decarbonise power generation
2:26
Too late, though, won't it? The scientists say it's too late. The scientists say we need to act now. Whilst we're building the next generation of, for example, nuclear power stations
2:35
we're not going to cut our nose off to spite our face. We're not going to use British oil and gas whilst we're going through that process
2:45
for the fuels and the economies of tomorrow rather than relying on the oil and gas of the park
2:51
But obviously, as you know, you can do that at the same time
2:55
as you're using your own oil and gas. And to import oil and gas from other countries
2:59
whilst you doing it just seems to me incredibly wrong So this is a win situation Firstly it gives us cheaper energy whilst we It not win for the planet is it Whilst we preparing for a decarbonised future we get to use our own oil and gas
3:16
rather than other countries. We get to... I said it again. Sorry, can I finish the sentence
3:20
Now I'm just going to finish the sentence because you've interrupted me three times whilst I've been trying to finish the sentence. So we get to use our own oil and gas whilst we're preparing
3:27
for the energy transition of the future. And that will reduce bills for businesses
3:31
and for families and for public services. The sentence can't be four minutes long, Minister
3:37
I'm going to interrupt you. And it will also keep jobs here. You said it's win-win
3:41
It's not win-win for the planet. It's not win-win for the next generation. It's lose-lose, isn't it
3:45
Because what you are doing, or what Kemi Badenock is doing this week, is completely abdicating the UK
3:50
of virtually all its climate change obligations. No, not at all. We're not saying that we're not going to
3:56
have aimed for a decarbonised future. We're just talking about the speed at which we're going to do it
4:03
and the sources of energy on which we're going to rely whilst we're heading in that direction
4:07
And the alternative is to have much higher energy costs, fewer jobs, which will be incredibly damaging to the next generation
4:15
on top of the extraordinarily high taxes that this government... Do you think this move will be popular with young people then
4:21
This government has... I tell you it won't. Well, OK. Well, I think you'll find that there are a lot of right-leaning young people in this country who would absolutely take issue with that
4:31
And there are a lot of young people in this country who are worried about jobs and businesses and their futures in that regard
4:36
I think you'll also find that when you ask young people about the political issues they care most about, climate change is consistently one of the top three
4:43
I think you'll find that not all young people are the same and that there are lots of different groups of young people
4:48
Of course. And you're implying that... This is a poll. What you're implying in your statement is that all young people feel the same way
4:54
No, I'm not. Absolutely. I'm not implying that for a moment. I'm saying when you poll young people, they care about climate change
4:59
What you said was, if you ask young people... Yes. In opinion polls. And what you're saying is that all young people..
5:04
I didn't say every young person does. Come on, this is ridiculous. That was the implication of your statement
5:09
That was the implication of your statement. When you poll, let me explain it
5:12
There are groups of young people who feel very differently about this
5:16
and care about the economies in their local area and care about cost of energy
5:21
I think you're studying with the language that you've used. Not at all. Let me explain it to you then
5:26
No, no, I don't need it to explain to you. I understand exactly what you're implying
5:30
No, you don't. And what I'm saying to you is that there are groups of young people out there who care very much about jobs and businesses in their country
5:37
and want their families to have lower costs of energy, which this policy will provide
5:42
No, I don't need you to explain it. I'm here to explain what my party's policy is and what it's going to do
5:49
Let me ask you any questions or I'm just going to talk earlier. Are you going to ask a question or are you just going to talk about what you just said
5:54
I'm going to ask you a question. Do you accept that climate change for when young people across the board are polled
6:01
consistently comes out as one of the things that they care most about? And if so what would you say to them given they will surely be concerned about what you announcing today I say to them what I already said to you which is that obviously all we talking about is the time scale on which we go to a decarbonised economy
6:18
And if we are going to do that in a sensible, moderate way, which doesn't undermine their future in terms of the economy and of jobs
6:26
this is the best solution in that it will generate more jobs in this country and keep bills down
6:32
And the alternative is something that will mean that there are fewer jobs for them and more expensive bills for their families
6:37
Got your point on that. Let me move on to something else that Kimmy Badenock has said
6:42
She's outflanking reform on the issue of deportations. Even Nigel Farage rode back on the idea of deporting women and children who come here on small boats
6:52
Kimmy Badenock asked whether she would deport women and children, says, of course
6:57
Is that correct? If people have come to this country illegally, they shouldn't stay here
7:02
Women and children as well. If people have come to this country illegally, they shouldn't stay here
7:07
And you always have to start from principles on these things. It is illegal to come into this country without permission, without using a designated route
7:16
When people do that, they should expect, the starting point should be that those people will be deported
7:21
Just a very clear answer to my question. That includes women and children. I've given you a clear answer to that question
7:26
Well, you didn't say yes or no. Yes, it does include women and children. Would that include sending them to places like Afghanistan, Sudan and others where they face gender-based violence and persecution
7:34
It would very much depend on the arrangements that a future government puts in place with third countries such as Rwanda
7:41
Right, so you wouldn't send them back to countries like the Taliban? I think it's very unlikely that we would ever have a deal with the Taliban
7:49
I think it's very unlikely that we would have a deal with Iran or Atreya
7:53
But that doesn't mean that you can't have third country processing. So you would send them to another country
7:57
which is what, yeah, we would send people to another country if they've crossed into the country illegally
8:02
Is that sort of compassionate conservatism, deporting women and children who have come here seeking safe havens
8:06
Does that make you comfortable? The first thing, look, none of this is comfortable. I'd rather that none of this was happening at all
8:12
But the fact of the matter is we have very large numbers of people crossing into the country illegally, and you have to have a deterrent
8:19
And what this government has done is remove the deterrent that we left in place at the last general election
8:24
and the consequences we now have far more people crossing into this country illegally than ever
8:30
before we need to bring that deterrent back and once once a good deterrent is in place as we saw
8:35
uh in australia uh about 10 years ago once once so just i'll just finish sentence and i promise it's
8:39
short uh once you have a good deterrent in place far fewer people will make that journey in the
8:44
first place and you're comfortable that people in this country that the law-abiding british public
8:48
tolerant open compassionate people that we are will be happy with a conservative government
8:52
deporting thousands upon thousands of women and children. I think everybody... No, firstly, there aren't thousands upon thousands of people..
8:58
There would be over the course of a parliament there. No, no, the vast, vast majority of people crossing the channel illegally
9:05
are working-age men. Yes. And please do not create the impression that there are thousands and thousands of women and children crossing over on dinghies Over the course of a parliament there would be thousands of women and children That is not true That you would have to deport That you would have to deport So what I saying is when you have a deterrent in place the number of people crossing drops right down
9:22
and so you don't actually have to deport many people at all. The important thing is to show that you have a meaningful deterrent
9:27
which is effective, and that changes the way in which the smuggling gangs work
9:32
it breaks their business model, and so actually you don't need to deport very many people at all
9:36
Okay, understood. One more issue I wanted to get your thoughts on. You, Miss Burkhart, are calling for an investigation this morning into Angela Rayner, your party is as well, in relation to her housing affairs
9:45
What do you think she might have done wrong? So, my understanding is that Angela Rayner may have sought to avoid paying stamp duty on her primary residence
9:58
And there's going to be an investigation to that. I think it's best we let the investigation deal with. But I think what the subtext of this story is
10:04
is that you probably have people within the Labour Party who are starting to brief against each other
10:11
We've seen lots... That would never happen in your party, Mr. Biden. I know that this is politics
10:16
You're a of unity. What's emerging now, as Keir Starmer's leadership gets into trouble
10:22
and people start to talk about Angela Rayner as his possible successor, is that people in the Labour Party are starting to brief against Angela Rayner
10:29
We know that Angela Rayner is considering putting an amendment in one of her bills that would make it impossible for Andy Burnham to come back as a Member of Parliament in the greater Manchester area
10:39
What's that got to do with her housing affairs? As I say, I suspect that people within the Labour Party are leaking information about Angela Rayner because they don't want her to take over from Keir Starmer
10:49
What is it that you think she might have done wrong? So I just said that the implication is that she may have sought to avoid paying stamp duty on her primary residence
10:59
And that's what's being investigated. The implication I've seen is that no rules were broken. Is that your understanding as well, Ms Burkhardt
11:06
If there is an investigation, then there is obviously a suggestion that something may have been done wrong
11:12
And that's what's being looked into. And you think she might have, what, broken the law potentially around stamp duty
11:18
she? No, I think that what she may have done is avoided, sought to avoid paying tax on her primary
11:27
residence, yep, in a way that was inconsistent with what she was expected to do as Secretary of
11:35
State. So, if you're basically suggesting even you don't think she's broken any laws, what is the
11:39
point of her investigation if she's done nothing technically wrong? See whether she's broken the ministerial code. The ministerial code is different to the law. What under the ministerial code might
11:46
she have done wrong in relation to stamp duty. So there are a whole series of ethical expectations
11:54
of ministers within the ministerial code and an investigation will establish whether in taking herself off the deeds of her primary residence
12:04
she has broken any of those expectations. Really appreciate your time this morning
12:08
Thank you for coming on. Alex Burkhart, Shadow Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster, must tell you that Angela Rayner's team
12:12
insist this morning they deny the allegations and say once again that no wrongdoing has taken place
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