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James O’Brien and LBC’s political editor Natasha Clark analyse PMQs as Keir Starmer goes head to head with Kemi Badenoch.
Listen to the full show on Global Player: https://app.af.globalplayer.com/Br0x/LBCYouTubeListenLive
‘How is this Rachel Reeves’ fault?’
‘Remember, she never makes gaffes…’
‘That’s a pretty big gaffe’
‘Has Tory HQ fired their research department?’
‘If she can’t get basic facts right…’
‘She needs to read more than the Telegraph’
‘Badenoch and Starmer are getting squeezed’
‘He is the ultimate centrist’
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0:00
What was the name of that department store in Poole that she claimed was closing down as a consequence of Rachel Reeves's policies
0:07
Beals. Beals. It's not part of the 23 branch empire of department stores that went into administration in January of 2020 when, of course, the Conservatives were in power
0:17
I literally was racking my brains thinking Beals, Beals. I have not heard of this place for so long
0:22
There's one in Dis in Norfolk. Well, there was one in Dis and there was one in Hexham as well
0:26
And then sort of various other. at Whiz Beach, so quite a few across East Anglia
0:31
It's quite a, you know, like a household name, like Owen and Owen was in the Midlands for a long time
0:35
We haven't heard anything about Beatles in a while. And why is that? Because it went into administration in 2020
0:41
And then the fellow that runs it, who opened one shop in pool
0:48
after the administration was completed. I was just looking at the recent Facebook page
0:52
because I'm a weirdo. Went into the pool store last weekend. No wonder it's closing down
0:57
Most of the stuff in there was just outdated. I remember visiting the Bournemouth store during the closing down sale
1:02
I wondered if it was the buyers who were to blame. Another one saying they were a dead duck for years, sadly didn't move with the times
1:09
Perhaps if your business cannot survive without paying staff a fair salary, it's no longer viable
1:13
Outdated department staff farmer. How long did the Bournemouth one close down
1:17
It's been circling the drain for years. I guess management is looking to shift the blame
1:21
This in response to a Daily Telegraph story from five days ago, claiming that a department store was holding a Rachel Reeves closing down sale
1:29
but not mentioning A, that the CEO, whose name is Tony Brown
1:33
is a fully paid-up member of the Conservative Party, B, that Beals reported a £6 million loss in 2013
1:39
closed 10 stores in 2016 and went into complete administration in 2020
1:44
or indeed C, that the company that has now reopened three stores shortly afterwards
1:52
two of them shut, and only the one in pool survived. So how is this all Rachel Reeves' fault
1:56
It's all Rachel Reeves' fault. Well, it's because it's in the Telegraph, so I imagine that's really why
2:01
Shouldn't they have just Googled it? They could have just Googled... Do you know what I Googled? Yeah
2:05
Because Timothy texted me to tell me that he lives in the area. Beals went into administration in 2020
2:10
so I thought, he can't have got that right. Kemi better not told us she never makes gaffe
2:14
She never makes a gaffe. She never has to apologise because she never says anything wrong. So I literally just Googled Beals administration
2:19
and found all of the things that I... It didn't even last the pandemic, didn't even go into the pandemic
2:25
But yes, that's a pretty big one, isn't it? And just really raises the question, who are these people in Tory head office
2:32
Have they fired everybody, including their research department? They really need to be getting this stuff right
2:36
It's pretty basic stuff. And it's obviously a very hot topic. It's a good topic to go on
2:41
There are lots of reasons why I think people feel that the economy isn't doing as well as it could do
2:46
And it's a good, good topic to go on. But if she can get basic facts right about this then that really puts her in a really poor position So it not fantastic to you know the whole closing down sale works very well as a joke but if it not backed up by any sort of action then what the point Another example of her being terminally online
3:03
I'm not on Twitter anymore, but I imagine... No, it's terminally in the Telegraph. She needs to be reading more than just the Telegraph, doesn't she
3:08
I guess, but it would probably have been picked up on Twitter and salivated over by..
3:13
I don't think I've ever been to Beals. Sorry to say, that's just a sign of the times
3:17
I mean, it's not Woolworths. No Woolworths, is it? Pretty clear she hasn't either
3:22
But yeah, that's pretty bad. I think a pretty flat performance from her today, would you not say
3:26
Didn't really fail to land a lot of blows there. Lots of facts
3:30
She kept throwing off facts and this and that. Unemployment rates, wage growth, all of this stuff that we talked about at the beginning
3:35
But didn't really feel the emotion really landed there. And I think that's what she was hoping that the Beals anecdote was going to do
3:42
But it didn't. So I don't think that was a fantastic response for me. I've been bombarded with tales of Beals closing down
3:48
There were 22 of them shut down in 2020. so people have got an awful lot of evidence
3:52
You've got good memories, guys. I think Debenhams went bust under the Tories as well
3:56
But hey-ho. Let's not let facts get in the way of a good slamming of the government
4:00
Shall we listen to Liz Savile Roberts briefly, the leader of Plaid Cymru in Westminster
4:05
putting a question to the Prime Minister? This Prime Minister once spoke of compassion and dignity for migrants
4:13
and for defending free movement. Now he talks of islands of strangers and taking back control
4:21
Somebody here has to call this out. It seems the only principle he consistently defends is whichever he last heard in a focus group
4:30
So I ask him, is there any belief he holds which survives a week in Downing Street
4:37
Yes, the belief that she talks rubbish. Mr Speaker, I want to lead a country where we pull together and walk into the future
5:01
as neighbours and as communities, not as strangers. The loss of control of migration by the last
5:08
government put all of that at risk and that's why we're fixing the system based on principles of
5:14
control selection and fairness lightning quick response from gestarman yeah but sure it was also
5:22
rude when he accused the toys of sliding into brain dead oblivion you know starmer's getting a
5:26
bit spikier up here um i thought that was worth playing out because we heard his attempt at a
5:30
well not a an attempt we heard his sort of a defense of the rhetoric that he was deploying
5:37
earlier in the week which has caused such upset of course on his own benches farage has also been
5:42
on his feet trying to shift attention back to the small boats crossings but what was interesting
5:47
was that the rhetoric that keir starmer unveiled on monday with regard to immigration if not the policies was something Cammie Bader not felt she couldn go near Yeah and why does she feel that she doesn want does she not want to open up that discussion on
6:01
it? Because again, she, like Keir Starmer, is getting completely squeezed. And there are people
6:06
within the Conservative Party that feel like you were talking about before we went to Prime
6:10
Minister's questions about the Liberal Democrats and that, you know, seats in the south of England
6:14
that the Liberal Democrats have been snapping at the heels of the Tory party
6:19
and the Labour party now for a long time. Kemi Badeknox is in exactly the same position
6:24
because she's being squeezed by two parts of the political spectrum. On one hand, Nigel Farage and reform
6:30
which, of course, doing very well in the polls. You cannot ignore it. You also can't ignore the polling which says that lots of Brits
6:37
lots of voters do want governments and political parties to do more on immigration
6:40
You can't ignore it. But actually, we might hear some more from Keir Starmer next week because actually we've got this big EU summit, Ursula von der Leyen and other political leaders from around Europe coming, flying into London for a big political summit on Monday
6:55
And I wonder whether the language around migration might start to change. You'd like to think that if you were Keir Starmer about to announce potential under 30s mobility deal, you might start to be talking up the benefits of migration as well
7:06
Can he pivot at all? I think he probably can. We're still a long way out from an election
7:11
I think that's why he decided to make this speech this week, because he might be preparing to announce some sort of deal next week
7:17
And therefore, he'll be saying, well, I will crack down on some forms of migration in order to allow under-30s to have this sort of mobility migration deal
7:26
So he can have both his cake and eat it too, essentially. I think that's why he's done it and framed it in this way
7:32
But yeah, he's clearly trying to defend it, trying to get on both sides of it
7:38
but, you know, the loss of control of migration by the last government is something that Kemi Bay not just can't come back to, can she
7:44
No, and nor can she really get much traction on trade deals
7:47
because, I mean, she didn't sign any. I'm sorry, but actually that's mad, isn't it
7:51
I know your feelings very strongly on these trade deals and, you know, she's now completely flipping on that
7:58
and saying, oh, it's a tiny, tiny tariff trade deal, why are you bothering? Well, why did you bother signing all of these memorandums
8:03
She announced things that didn't actually change anything and Starmer has improved the situation we were in before he signed it
8:09
albeit that because Donald Trump is Donald Trump, it leaves him in a situation worse than the one he was in under Joe Biden
8:15
And I always defend the idea of these memorandums, understanding charges, whatever, because I think it's better than nothing
8:20
Is it though? Yeah. I think I'll fight you on that one. So you think this trade deal that Keir Starmer has signed has got something
8:28
Well, it's got numbers in it. It's got numbers in it. A tariff was X and now it's X minus Y. Exactly
8:32
So it's worth doing. It's better than nothing. Yeah, that is. But the Baden-Ock stuff was just we promised to be nice to each other in the future
8:37
True. But I still think it's worth it's worth having. No, I think so
8:42
It might not be you know shifting the economy by two three four percent or whatever But I do think that it better to have these these memorandums understanding understanding these mini are better than absolutely nothing at all and having these relationships is a good thing
8:56
But I agree that the Conservatives have talked them up to be far more than they actually are
9:01
And this Labour government, of course, is talking this trade deal up to be far more than it is. It's a carve-out of some specific trade tariffs
9:07
It's not going to have a huge, huge impact on our economy. And we are still looking at tariffs hitting the economy
9:12
to the tune of potentially tens of millions of pounds. And India is, by any measure, a win for the United Kingdom
9:20
And again, something that the Tories tried to get over the line for years. They could have shared the credit
9:25
She could have said, I'm delighted to see him picking up the pieces of what we have worked so hard
9:29
That would have been a much wiser way to do it, wouldn't it? Yeah, exactly. He said he's done a lap of honour and she's on the side of the track throwing rotten tomatoes
9:35
Exactly. And I think that's something that will work for both parties. Because he can say, well, actually, yes, we picked up your trade deal and we did what you couldn't do
9:42
So it does work for both parties and you can have that fight about who it was that got that trade deal over the line
9:47
But I think it's worth having one. And then Brexit. I know we don't bring it up very often on this programme, but Brexit was all about being able to sign trade deals with people like India
9:56
Kirstama didn't want to do Blooming Brexit. Kemi Bader Nock did. And now they've done a trade deal with India and she's poo-pooing it and he's celebrating it
10:03
The tables have turned. Everything's gone bonkers, hasn't it? It has. And speaking of bonkers, some people listening on Catch Up without realising it, like Pete, who's been in touch with somebody
10:10
I mean, Kemi Pedenok has forgotten that Beals went into administration in January 2020 and closed 22 of its 23 stores that March
10:17
It later reopened under new owners with three stores, two of them quickly shut
10:20
and now the final one is shutting in pool at the end of this month. But the Conservative Party member who runs the company has told the Daily Telegraph
10:27
it was all Rachel Reeves' fault and without doing any research whatsoever or indeed running it by her top team and closest aides
10:34
Kemi Pedenok has just repeated that nonsense on the floor of the House of Commons. Not great, not great
10:37
Davey was good. Davey was good, yeah. And again, you know, without blowing our own trumpets
10:42
exactly the topics that we thought he was going to go on Gaza and care workers as well, which we neglected to mention
10:46
It's not my trumpet, Natasha. It was entirely yours. Entirely my trumpet. And also just to bring you what Nigel Farage has been talking about
10:51
in the last few minutes. He says we at Reform enjoyed your speech and urge him to go even further than he did on Monday
10:57
which, again, you know, feeds into this idea of the Prime Minister being squeezed on both sides
11:01
Yeah, it's not... It's been etiolated on both sides or stretched because the left are saying you've gone too far
11:09
and the right are saying you haven't gone far enough. So am I going completely doolally
11:15
Or does that create quite a big space in the middle? I'm not as extreme as you and I'm not as extreme as you
11:22
So he is the ultimate centrist. Yes, so he should be defending this position and saying
11:26
actually, I'm going to what the British people want here, which is more controls on migration, but I will not be going as far as those guys
11:31
And that's why the use of the word squalid, which a lot of my favourite commentators have picked up on
11:36
even more than the use of the word strangers, which is more nuanced
11:40
And although Enoch Powell used the words, he wasn't using them in the same context that Keir Starmer was
11:45
It's the use of the word squalid that has upset people so much
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