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‘Have you even read it?’ LBC callers debate whether Reform’s migration policy is ‘racist’
Sep 30, 2025
Keir Starmer has branded Reform UK’s plan to abolish indefinite leave to remain as 'racist'.
Reform UK leader Nigel Farage unveiled the proposal last week, saying legal migrants should reapply for visas under tougher rules.
Nick Ferrari speaks to callers:
0:00 | Tony in Leyton and Adam in Maidstone head-to-head over the plans.
5:35 | James in Bristol defends the policy, which he hasn't read.
8:33 | Carla in Lambeth has lived in the UK 'all her life' and is worried about what might happen.
11:26 | John in Cheltenham argues we should focus more on interrogating the practicalities of Reform's policy
12:12| John in Lowestoft calls Keir Starmer 'condescending and patronising'
Listen to the full show on the all-new LBC App: https://app.af.lbc.co.uk/btnc/thenewlbcapp
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0:00
Tony, I'm going to ask you a question
0:01
Are you broadly supportive of the policies of Reform UK as regards immigration
0:06
No, I'm not. Tell me why. Well, I think, well, they're selecting
0:12
they're actually capitalising on a few people, for instance, like the boats, and making it sound as if they're the whole reason
0:21
for the immigration problem. But it's not just their policies. I think generally I'm not supportive of the policies
0:28
because when you ask Nigel a question, He faffs around. He never gives you an answer
0:32
And I'm surprised that, you know, people are still listening to him. It doesn't really give you, like, how are we going to do this
0:37
Well, people are listening to him in great numbers because... I'm surprised that they are because we should have learned a lesson from Brexit
0:43
How much were we going to get from Brexit? And look at the mess we're in right now
0:47
But Nigel doesn't put his head up to defend that. Well, I think a lot of people would say that the immigration system is out of control
0:54
We have tens of thousands of people arriving here, many of whom we know nothing about their backgrounds
1:00
We now know that in some instances they are either charged with or are unconvicted of sexual offences
1:05
and a lot of people have had enough, Tony. Yes, I agree with that, but again, the point is
1:11
they are singling out a few people. You talk about they don't know about people's history and criminal records
1:18
They're not singling out a few people, are they? They're suggesting that hundreds of thousands of people could face deportation
1:23
so I don't think singling out is really an expression for hundreds of thousands
1:27
When I said Cindy Matt, I was referring to the case of the person in Epping Hotel that raped somebody that was found guilty of that
1:35
Yeah, but he's not alone. There's a case in Isleworth, not as grave, but someone was convicted of a sexual harassment in Isleworth a couple of weeks prior to that
1:41
So two people out of how many? There's a case in Scotland as well. I don't want to go on and on and on
1:47
Tony, just to close your eyes to the concerns of, I would imagine, millions of people and say
1:52
Nigel Farage botched Brexit, so don't listen to it. I'm afraid you're being a little naive in my view, Tony
1:58
No, so your question initially was, the question initially was, whether supporting a racist policy was racist, right
2:05
Or have you changed the question? You haven't, right? No, that is the question. But you don't support the policy
2:10
so I can't put that question to you, because it's not fair. If you don't support the policy, I can't put that question to you
2:14
Well, I don't support it because it's racist. It's a racist policy. So that's the answer to it
2:18
But whether it makes the people racist... Why is it racist? Oh, why is it racist
2:22
Okay, so why it's racist is... Yeah, I'll answer. So why it's racist is because you're picking on people, for instance
2:28
especially immigrants, because he's now changing it from the boat people. Now it's to like all immigrants
2:32
And you're giving them a test, for instance, which you're giving them a test far and beyond the kind of test
2:37
Let me bring someone... Tony, I'm going to stop talking because Adam in Maidstone is going to join in
2:43
Adam, Tony says, are you in support of this broadly of reform policies
2:47
I am indeed, yeah. Would you like to explain to Tony why that does not make you racist
2:51
because he thinks you are? Well okay, I would say for starters, if you've looked up the definition of racism, I don't understand how this policy is anything to do with racism
3:01
I find, Nick, these days that these words, these buzz words that the left keep putting out, racism, isxamaphobic, fascist, it does nothing
3:10
But they overuse the word so much because they trying to make the right and reform look negative But all they are is buzzwords and headlines That all they are But I supported reform since the election and I been called a far racist fascist
3:26
indirectly, of course, just for support and reform. And I'm sick of it, Nick
3:30
I'm sick of it. I'm not a far-right racist or fascist or anything like this
3:35
I'm a normal, hard-working, blue-collar union rep, I may add, which is Labour's perfect supporter
3:41
and I'm sick and tired of all the hard... So what would you say to the Labour leader
3:47
and the Labour Prime Minister who suggests that the policies are racist? Not you, but the policies
3:52
I would tell them to look up the definition of racism because they are using these words so out of context
3:57
They're overusing them. They're losing their authenticity. Let's bring Tony back in
4:02
Tony, what would you say to Adam? So let's, to be clear, to be clear
4:06
the issue, for me, I didn't say that supporters of the policy are racist
4:10
what I'm saying and what I still hold to is that if you support a racist policy
4:14
then you are kind of like, just like the way we looked at the Nazi sympathizers
4:18
they were not Nazis, they supported... There were people that supported... Normally, the minute you hear the word Nazi
4:24
you lose the argument, but I'll let you carry on. Honestly, Tanya..
4:28
It's all right, Nick, I've had it for the last... since the general election. It's fine, mate, I'm used to it
4:32
I don't think the gentleman with whom I'm speaking has any Nazi sympathies at all, Tanya. It's a comparison
4:37
What I'm saying is people that supported apartheid, for instance, they were not all racists
4:43
But if you supported a policy of apartheid, for instance, you were a supporter of it
4:48
There's a nuance there, for instance, which people are kind of like missing out. All right, let's just a final comment from you, Adam. Back on, Adam
4:55
So I'd just like to ask this guy, has he actually read the policy? Because I'm trying to identify what part of the policy says that no, no colour people are allowed to come into the country
5:05
no black, no brown, no this are allowed to come into the country. I don't understand whether policy discriminates
5:10
between someone's colour of skin. OK, quick response, because I need to get on
5:15
Adam, thank you. Tony, a response to Adam's question. Have you read it all? No, I haven't read it all
5:19
OK. This is where Nigel's building up to. OK. All right, I think Adam is making his point
5:25
that perhaps a closer knowledge would help, because Adam's point is it wouldn't matter
5:30
whether you're Australian or Brazilian or whatever you might be. You could be out of here under those policies
5:35
Do you support reform, James? I do, yes. Do you support their immigration policies, James
5:43
I'll be honest, I haven't read their policies, but from a British man born and raised in England
5:53
the fact that Keir Starmer said that his policy is racist, is totally unfounded
6:02
the UK itself has been governed by Labour and Tories and the UK is ultimately being used to those two parties
6:13
Now the fact that reform is coming in wanting to change how the UK is run
6:18
I think it's a party that needs to be reckoned with. When the Prime Minister suggests
6:28
that people like you could be could be verging towards being racist How does that sit with you Quite offended to be honest I not even racist fascist or whatever
6:41
I'm none of those things. But I find it quite offended that I seem to be a racist
6:49
because I support a party that's not likened to their agenda. James, thank you for your input
6:58
We'll have more calls on this in just a moment. It is. Politicians love this expression, living rent free in someone's head. It's quite a clever one. It's getting a bit boring now because everyone uses it all the time. But Mr Farage is living in Sakhir's head. And I have virtually no skills whatsoever. The only thing I might know a little bit about is the use of words. And the minute you say racist, racism, racist policies, you what was he thinking
7:22
because all this will do is if you are a Reform UK member or supporter
7:28
for many of you, it will just harden the battle lines now. Particularly when you think of the issues that he has in great northern constituencies
7:36
where, did you see in that poll over the weekend, they've currently got, well, it was 401
7:42
I think they've had a couple of defections and a couple of people have been booted out. So let's just say they've got 395
7:48
So 395 Labour MPs, and the poll that was published on the weekend, 267 of whom would lose their seats
7:56
Not all to reform. Lib Dems, Conservatives in there as well. 267, many of whom, not all, many of whom were in the north
8:05
So you think that's always been a rich hunting ground, hasn't it? Whether it's Brexit, whether it's Boris Johnson and his levelling up, which came to nothing at all
8:13
That fell flat. No levelling up, just flat, wasn't it? those are the people who are ready to change them so they're now thinking of reform and secure has
8:21
brilliantly managed to offend them again by calling them possibly or heading towards being racist
8:28
closet racist perhaps whoever thought of that language i think from my point of view i'm actually
8:35
an immigrant myself i'm not british i don't hold a british passport i've been here from a very young
8:43
age as you can tell i don't have well i say i don't have an accent i have a south london accent
8:48
um when brexit happened and we had to all go through and make sure all our paperwork was
8:57
correct having indefinite leave to remain etc which my parents and i had since the early 70s
9:04
um they couldn't find my paperwork right and i basically had to put my property which i own
9:13
with my husband into his name because they couldn't find me on the system
9:20
Now, my concern with everything that's going on now is, is this likely to happen again
9:26
Am I likely to be sent back home? My family is from Portugal
9:32
I've been in this country all my life. I was educated here, schooled, college
9:39
You've got an NHS number, right? Absolutely, I have. You've got an NI number
9:44
Absolutely. Even with all of that information they still couldn find me on the system But I think that the incompetence of the system not necessarily what might happen to you under the reform policies surely Well if I have to do a citizenship test
10:01
I'm concerned I may not pass it. I have friends that have gone through it
10:05
and failed it about three or four times. What were the problems with the citizenship
10:10
that your friends weren't able to clear? I think it was some of the questions, if I'm being brutally honest
10:16
So I've never seen it. So I really haven't got a clue
10:21
For me personally, as I said, my parents came home when I was very, very young
10:29
When my parents came, and I hate to say I, to a certain extent, do agree with Nigel Farage in the sense of you should come on a work permit
10:40
When my parents came, you weren't entitled to social housing. you had to spend for yourself to a certain number of years
10:51
before you were able to access any of the system. And I think now it is making it a lot easier for lots of people
11:01
I must leave it there, Carla. Only for time reasons, Carla. I don't think... Obviously, I can't give you a promise
11:07
but you've got everything that you require. And indeed, I was just looking at what this government is proposing
11:12
which is you would need to have a spotless criminal record, well, I'm assuming you do, speak English to a high standard
11:17
your English is absolutely perfect, be a net contributor to the economy, well, yes, you are, and you're a homeowner
11:21
So certainly under the plans you'll hear more of today, you're, as it were, in the clear. Just two points, really
11:27
It's just the first one is I'm surprised that, you know, we're not centring the conversation around holding reform
11:34
to account for their policy. Like, how will it be implemented? What does it mean
11:38
What happens when other countries return the favour? You mean you think the Prime Minister should have angled
11:44
more on that, do you think, rather than the possible racist aspect? Possibly
11:50
Possibly, but I think just, you know, in the entire journalist community, really, it should
11:56
really be questioning Farage and reform to say, okay, we hear your
12:00
policy, but how would it work? And how would it be of interest
12:04
to the country? How would it benefit the country, possibly? John, thank you. I'm going to be brief with you, because I'll get
12:10
one more person in. John's in lowest off. John, the point you want to make, you've got about 40 seconds. Go ahead
12:14
Yeah, it's condescending and it's patronising. My grandfather was, what Starmer said
12:22
this idea that everyone who supports those sorts of policies is a racist
12:28
My grandfather was Indian. He was in the Merchant Navy during the war, helped with the war effort
12:33
I know lots of people from lots of different walks of life, lots of immigrants, descendants of immigrants, who feel very similar
12:40
that immigration is out of control and it needs to be controlled
12:44
Right. You know, I can't get an NHS dentist, I have to go private
12:48
You come to this country and you get dental treatment for free. You know, I paid a lot, a lot of money in tax
12:55
We all do. And I'm very angry, yeah, we all do, and I'm very angry that it's just being wasted and spent
13:01
You know, we need on things that really we have no control over. Well, you see, I think you probably speak for a fair old chunk of the country
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