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James O’Brien discusses Donald Trump’s reaction to being overlooked for the Nobel Peace Prize, as the first phase of the Gaza peace deal begins.
He also examines whether the lasting impact on Israel’s global reputation under Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu can ever be repaired.
Listen to the full show on the all-new LBC App: https://app.af.lbc.co.uk/btnc/thenewlbcapp
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0:00
Congratulations to Maria Corina Machado, the winner of this year's Nobel Peace Prize
0:06
It could be Donald Trump next year. My understanding of how this scheme works
0:10
how this prize works, is that it is unlikely to take into account more recent events
0:16
I thought it only took into account events from 2024, because the nominations I thought had to
0:22
be in by January of 2025, which would have been very tricky for Donald Trump to be included
0:29
but it may be a little more nuanced than that. However, it was always close to impossible
0:35
that something that is yet to be enacted could lead to an actual award
0:42
But who here has any faith in the old rules of what's possible and impossible
0:47
Hands up if you've still got faith in the old order and its ability to resist sweeping and violent assaults
0:54
upon everything from the rule of law to simple tradition. I don't know how this reaches your ears
1:01
I really don't. I hope I've established over the last few years two things
1:06
Number one, that I've been completely right about everything that Donald Trump is and would do
1:10
And number two, that I have very little competition when it comes to holding him in the lowest imaginable regard
1:19
but in the course of yesterday's program I kind of found myself thinking
1:27
that his toxic character is intrinsic to this ceasefire I mean, you know, whether or not
1:36
the enormous bribe of a jumbo jet was a significant factor in the process of him deciding
1:43
to become the first president in history to essentially pull the rug
1:48
from beneath the feet of the Israeli Prime Minister and tell him that his desire to continue this war ad infinitum
1:54
was now toast, was now over. And nobody else could have done that
1:59
because there's a brilliant piece in The Times today by a journalist called Catherine Philp
2:04
that I cannot recommend highly enough. I was going to share it earlier, but if I'd shared it
2:07
I'd have got a dozen messages going, do you know it's behind a paywall
2:11
To which I can't reply individually going, no, I had no idea it was behind. Oh, really? Journalists are getting paid for journalism
2:17
Oh, whatever will it end? But it's a brilliant piece, not least because it points out that the deal as it stands was pretty much on the table 18 months ago
2:29
But there was no way that Netanyahu was going to sign it. And there was no way. And this is really crucial
2:34
And this is why those of us who can see Donald Trump for precisely what he is, a self-confessed sex offender, serial felon, dangerous, dangerous liar, inspirer of armed insurrection against his own seat of government
2:46
When all of the things that people who use phrases like Trump derangement syndrome
2:51
have to presumably be comfortable with or even approving of, up to and including the woman who accused him of rape that he sued for libel
2:59
and then subsequently lost. And all of these things, I don't know if they are sources of derangement
3:07
but they should be sources of deep, deep disgust. Of course they should. Politicians have an excuse, I suppose
3:12
Prime ministers have to kind of keep him sweet because of the damage he could do to them if he didn't
3:17
But journalists, commentators, pundits, columnists, they've got no excuse at all for not expressing daily
3:24
the deep, deep disgust at having such a hideous human being in the most powerful seat in the world
3:30
But it is precisely that hideousness that has allowed him to do what he's done
3:35
Because I don't think anybody else would ever have said to an Israeli prime minister
3:40
we will withdraw support. You will be on your own unless you sign here. And the other side of the negotiating table, they were ready to sign
3:51
18 months ago. It's all in an essay by Gershon Baskin, the negotiator who presided over the
3:59
freeing of Israeli soldiers, or the Israeli soldier, forgive me, Gilad Shalit in 2011. And he's been
4:05
on the case of the current peace agreement and had it in place in pretty much September 2024
4:12
Hamas had agreed to it in the last months of the Biden administration
4:17
But Biden was never going to push hard enough against Netanyahu. And Netanyahu refused point blank to consider it So I mean the tragic subtext of that of course is that every death since September of 2024
4:31
so just over 12 months of genocide in Gaza, was utterly unnecessary
4:39
If Joe Biden had had the wherewithal to put the kind of pressure on Benjamin Netanyahu
4:43
that Donald Trump has done, then tens of thousands of people, including women and children, would still be alive
4:51
And, you know, it doesn't knock... Well, of course, it knocks the gloss off what has happened
4:56
but it probably will go underreported by the kind of people who think that I'm somehow responsible
5:03
personally, a caller to the end of Nick's show, if you weren't listening, for fomenting hatred
5:08
when all I've done since the very beginning of this conflict was insist upon valuing a Palestinian life
5:14
as highly as an Israeli one. It's incredible how upsetting some people find that, isn't it
5:20
And yet, of course, looking at the death toll and the continuing denials of the horrors that have unfolded, it's not surprising at all
5:28
It may have been something of a lesson for you, though, to discover just how delusional and warped a lot of the coverage of these issues can be
5:38
Of course, the only reason, the only way in which you can get away with persuading people of things that are not true is by banning journalists from accessing reality and reporting back on it to you
5:48
there is only one reason why Benjamin Netanyahu's administration has from the very start refused to
5:55
let people like Matt Fry appearing at the end of Nick's show also there and and others um report
6:00
on what's going on on the ground in Gaza and that is because they do not want you to know they do
6:06
not want anyone to know most of all they do not want their own citizens they do not want Israeli
6:10
people to know the scale of what has now been adjudged by various international experts both
6:16
academic and members of United Nations commissions to be a genocide. That's, again, a very, very simple truth
6:25
You may not have known that. You may not have known at the beginning of this nightmare
6:30
that Benjamin Netanyahu had encouraged Qatar to fund Hamas so that the two-state solution that both sides, Netanyahu and Hamas
6:38
despise and abhor and reject would move ever further out of reach
6:43
That's not an opinion. That's counting something which the inimitable Noga Tarnopolski in Jerusalem reminded us of yesterday
6:51
So much stuff that you can only really control if you can keep a lid on coverage
6:57
And of course, that includes, as we had a little example of just 15 minutes ago
7:02
maligning journalists for having the temerity to actually tell the truth about what is going on
7:06
rather than simply spouting propaganda for either side. So those are all facts, facts that you may not have been aware of
7:13
when this began. The Guardian this week listed 17,000 children who've been killed with the caveat
7:21
that that won't be the end of it because God knows how many more will be found when they start sifting through the rubble
7:26
that Gaza has been reduced to. All of which points to some explanation
7:33
of why every sensible article I've read, actually every article I've read
7:38
speaks directly of the pariah status that Benjamin Netanyahu has now visited upon Israel
7:48
And it's a decision that nobody really seems to challenge, up to and including him
7:54
when he spoke to the United Nations and the room emptied as he drew breath
7:58
and decided or stated that Israel clearly not aware of what Donald Trump had up his sleeve
8:04
in the simple context of withdrawing on questioning support and providing... Listen, don't get me wrong
8:13
For me, it's one of the great curses of being objective. I think this peace deal is too kind to Hamas
8:19
I really do. Top priority should be the Palestinian civilians and the remaining hostages
8:26
But I think this peace deal is way too kind to Hamas. But it was the only way you were going to get it over the line
8:31
And you could have got it over the line 18 months ago if Joe Biden had been prepared to put the thumbscrews on Benjamin Netanyahu, which of
8:38
course he wasn't, for fairly obvious reasons. Trump doesn't care about anything except Trump, and this is the best possible result for Donald
8:45
Trump and that is the only and the abiding reason why it has actually come about But this pariah status and Netanyahu himself alluded to it when he talked of Israel becoming like Sparta I mean if you don have a classical education think of it as Millwall
9:03
football club. No one likes us, we don't care. And that's something Benjamin Netanyahu wanted to do
9:10
It's something that perhaps Nick's caller who was very rude about me a moment ago wants to do to
9:15
turn all of us into people who don't like Israel because that way you can perpetuate the
9:21
circumstances which allow you to undertake hideous, hideous carnage on your very own
9:28
doorstep. But I refuse to fall into that trap. I refuse to abandon my lifelong belief that the
9:34
modern state of Israel is a necessary and profoundly important phenomenon. What I don't
9:41
know is what benjamin netanyahu has done to the international status the international reputation
9:48
of the country because i've got a horrible feeling that some people when they hear israel will hear
9:54
people like caroline infinci spitting bile about your humble friendly radio presenter or they will
9:59
hear the word israel and all they'll think of is what has happened in gaza since october the 7th
10:04
2023. They won't think about the proud history of the population, of the nation, of the contribution
10:12
to the world. They won't think about the appalling provocations that have been suffered. They won't
10:17
understand the historical context that has unfolded since 1948. None of those things
10:22
will register in the minds of many, many people who will hear the words Israel and see the word
10:28
genocide. It's a horrible situation. And I kind of hope I'm wrong. But it would appear otherwise
10:35
because again, the domestic equivalent of trying to ban journalists from getting into Gaza is trying
10:40
to ban people expressing solidarity with Palestinian suffering from expressing solidarity with Palestinian suffering. The Times carried an interesting article yesterday. And these
10:51
idiot students spouting hideous thoughts and slogans on campuses across the country have
10:59
been portrayed as like an enormous force. The Times actually counted them. So the Times's ysis
11:05
and I'm not a fan of what Tony Gallagher has done, the editor has done to the Times, but sometimes
11:09
a stop clock is correct. They used words like dozens or less than a hundred. And to be clear
11:16
You know, that's too many people expressing Jew hatred or expressing support for what Hamas did in October the 7th
11:25
But there would be a tiny proportion of a tiny number of people that were doing that
11:30
The British media moves in, most of the British media moves in to pretend that all protesters are terrorist sympathizers
11:37
Suella Braverman was doing it at the very outset. And the failure of it has been spectacular in the public mind
11:46
It might have worked on Daily Mail front pages or on Facebook groups
11:53
but the failure to carry the public with the Israeli administration has been absolutely hideous, hideously unsuccessful
12:08
The attitude that you will have, not towards Jewish people, of course
12:12
because that is sadly what you have to pretend is the case
12:17
in order to ignore the question of how you could ever have stayed silent
12:21
about murder on this scale. The word Israel is damaged
12:32
And I don't think that's an opinion. I think that's counting. I think all of the polling shows it
12:37
So, what has this two-year-long campaign done to you? How has it changed your understanding of the world, and that part of the world in particular
12:52
And how much damage has Benjamin Netanyahu, who is less popular in Israel than Donald Trump is
12:59
riddle me that if you want, again according to polling, which is not scientific, but it's generally quite reliable
13:05
how much damage has Benjamin Netanyahu done to the modern state of Israel
13:10
to its international reputation why am I reading in newspapers that were very warm
13:15
towards him just two years ago that Israel has achieved a sort of pariah status And what has he done and why did he do it
13:25
He could have signed this deal 18 months ago. Could have been forced to sign it
13:31
if Joe Biden had demonstrated a little bit more, well, you could say backbone
13:35
or you could say if Qatar had bought him a $400 million jumbo jet
13:40
What has this done? What has it done? The trouble started. I didn't realise I had so much to say about this
13:50
I mean, in terms of rhetoric and reputation, not in terms of carnage and bloodshed
13:58
I remember the sick, cold feeling on October the 7th as the details began to come through
14:05
And then the genocide in Gaza has been more of a drip feed, but there have been moments of comparable horror
14:11
It's just been an incremental growing abomination, hasn't it, rather than a single sick second
14:23
But I remember when Sue Ella Breverman, I kind of knew people who'd been on a protest
14:28
and I remember Sue Ella Breverman trying to portray them all. I was Hamas sympathising
14:33
I remember thinking, this is really stupid. This is really stupid. you need to recognize two things you need to recognize that many people are so generationally
14:47
traumatized by the holocaust that they can never conceive of an israeli government doing anything
14:54
wrong if it is sold to them as self-defense if it is sold to them as security they will never be
14:58
able to turn around and this is as true of the diaspora and uh as it is of the um of the domestic
15:05
population. They will never be able to, because I've said this phrase a billion times. It's where
15:09
you go when it starts happening again. So the responsibility of all decent, honest commentators
15:16
journalists, people, public thinkers, people trying to get their head around this stuff
15:21
the responsibility of all of us should actually have been critical friend to say, this cannot go
15:28
unanswered, this abomination of October the 7th, but do not sell the goodwill that Israel enjoys
15:38
and needs. Do not sacrifice it upon the altar of Benjamin Netanyahu's survival
15:44
And that's what I've learned. They did. And they continue to. UK media, columnists, journalists
15:53
callers to Nick, they continue to sacrifice the goodwill of lifelong supporters of the
16:00
state of Israel upon the altar of Benjamin Netanyahu's self-serving barbarism. And you know, that distinction is so clear
16:07
I'm criticising a world leader, I'm criticising a politician, I'm criticising an alleged war criminal
16:13
And yet, you know, there'll be someone texting me or ringing Nick to say, that's anti-Semitic
16:19
How dare you criticise an alleged war criminal for alleged war crimes? You're anti-Semitic
16:23
and you sort of think the damage you do to that hideous, hideous tradition, that bilious
16:30
practice of anti-Semitism, the damage you do to it when you apply it to somebody who's condemning
16:35
an alleged war criminal for alleged war crimes, the damage you do when somebody who talks of the
16:42
necessity and the value and the unique status, because that's when I upset everybody else
16:48
the unique status of Israel in the context of 20th century and 21st century history
16:54
Someone who understands it and defends it all the time. Remember when Sue Ella Bravman had a popular..
17:00
Is it the daughter of a Holocaust survivor or an actual Holocaust survivor? The damage you do when you just go football club
17:06
on something as nuanced and difficult as this is absolutely immense. And so that's the question that I have for you
17:18
What's changed in the way you look at the world, 0345 6060973
17:24
What's changed in your understanding of that particular corner of the Middle East
17:30
And I will actually ask the question, because everywhere I look, I'm reading about how Benjamin Netanyahu has rendered Israel a pariah state
17:41
how this could never have happened if he hadn't hemorrhaged so much goodwill and international support for so long
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