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WATCH: Tom and Emily clash in fiery trans row after UK pool final is contested by two trans players
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Apr 7, 2025
GB News hosts Emily Carver and Tom Harwood found themselves engulfed in a fiery trans debate live on air, as the Good Afternoon Britain presenters split in their views on the latest trans row to hit women's sport.The row centres on trans women Harriet Haynes and Lucy Smith, who competed against each other in the Ultimate Pool Women’s Pro Series Event 2 final at Robin Park Leisure Centre in Wigan after beating four female-born opponents to the top.FULL STORY HERE.
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0:00
Right, it's 1.26
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It's been described by a certain Piers Morgan as preposterous, hasn't it
0:06
A professional women's pool tournament has been hit by protests after the final was contested by two transgender players
0:14
So Harriet Haynes beat Lucy Smith to win the Ultimate Pool Women's Pro Series title
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after they both got past four female opponents on their way to the final in Wigan
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Thoughts? So? You have no problem with two transgender women, so biological males, getting to, not only getting to the final
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but both of them getting to the final and competing against each other so there was no female contestant left in the final
0:42
I think some people would take issue with using the word female in that way
0:45
OK, what's a woman, then? What's your definition of a female? I think if you're going to go down the definitional argument
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you could pick any item in this room and say, what's your definition of that, and you'd find a string of words..
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Oh, come on, you're a sensible person. You know what the definition of a woman is. Come on. Most women are people... I'm not going to go down a definitional..
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Why not? You're acting like Kiss Dharma now. Well, no, because it's just a silly question
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No, I'm sorry. You either have a women's category or you don't
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You have a women's category in pool, therefore it should only be biological females who are in that category
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Otherwise, it's not fair on many levels. When you ask the question, what is a woman, Like the answer that I supposed to give is adult human female right Well no you not supposed to give it I just want to know what you think But that just a tautology Well not really Because you just using it Then you could ask what a female So no do you believe that a female is someone who identifies as female
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rather than has the biological make-up of a female? No, I don't think that I could just, for example
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tomorrow identify as a female like that. I don't believe that. But I do believe that there are transgender people..
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But if you've had a bit of surgery and a few hormones, then yes
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I do believe that there are transgender people who need to be treated with dignity and respect
1:55
OK, sure, but does that mean they get to go... Go in the women's category of pool and win the competition
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Pool, as far as I am aware... And you don't know anything about this. I've looked it up
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Pool is a game where you have balls on a felt surface
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and you hit them with a stick, right? So I've actually read what female pool players say about this
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and they say that men, biological males, have an advantage in pool because they are taller in general
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they have a longer arm span, They also have less wide hips, narrower hips
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which apparently is an advantage too. Do you know how tall Harriet Haynes, who was the winner, is? No, I don't, but I'm saying on average..
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Right, but is that out of... So if there is a woman who is six foot tall, she should not be allowed to play tennis
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Tom, you either have a female category or you don't, OK? So if you're arguing that we just have gender-neutral categories
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in all sports, fine. I'm not. But otherwise, you don't have a female category
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I'm saying that there are some sports where it's absolutely inappropriate for people who went through male..
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You don't know anything about porn or anything about sports in general, do you
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Should you ban a transgender woman from being in a pistol shooting team Why We not talking talking about pistol It a sport It an Olympic sport If there female category then yes it should only be for biological females
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Chess. Same with that. If there's a female category... Why do you think women are worse at chess than men
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I don't think women are worse at chess. If you have a female category, then you stick to it being female
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If you have a male category, you stick to being male. What do you mean by female? If you want no categories at all in your particular sport
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and everyone within that sport agrees, that is fine. So what you're doing here is you're trying to say
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that transgender women are male. Biologically, they're not the same as women
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who are biologically female and were born female and are female. In a chromosomal way, in a biological way, in every other way
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Is this just sport that you'd apply it to or do you want to apply it to every realm of life
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I'm currently talking about sport. What you won't admit is that there's any difference
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between a transgender female and a female. You won't admit that. Now, this isn't about bigotry, this isn't about discrimination
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this isn't about saying that these transgender women can't live their lives
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But they can't compete, in my view, in a female category because they are not female in the same way as a woman is female
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I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Why do you think there have been protests? Why do you think one of these female pool plays
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is so furious about this? So your argument here isn't about any innate biological advantage
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in the sport, it's about categorisation. It's about that and category. I talking more about the category in this case because we don know Because it pool No no no Also because I think it a better argument Because fundamentally I think it a strong argument and just ends the argument really
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You either have a female category or you don't. In pool, we have a female category and a male category
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But you keep using... If you want to have a gender-neutral tournament, then go ahead. You keep using the term female category
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So, for example, we also have female loos. Do you think that transgender women should be allowed
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to use female loos in supermarkets? Probably not. I think there should be gender-neutral loos
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You think that transgender women... We're not talking about loos, though. We're talking about a competition
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Female sports already don't get as much input in terms of cash
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in terms of marketing often, in terms of all sorts of things. And now you have two people, born male
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who are winning the tournament that females have been obviously training a lot for
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and it means a lot to them. It means a lot to these people as well. Yes, but I'm sorry. I'm sorry
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I'm sorry, I'm sorry. But because someone identifies as female does not mean that they are female
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in the same way as someone who's born as female. That's not to say that I have anything against transgender women
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I don't, right? But I don't think they can compete in a female category
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You've just admitted that you don't think it's because there's an innate advantage. No, I do think there is also..
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You think it's because of the category? I have been told by pool players who I've read what they've had to say
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and they do say that there are some male advantages in terms of, as I already explained
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Anyway, let us know what you think. So tall women should look... No, I didn't just say that
6:02
I said arm span. But we've already gone over this. I say that there should be a female and a male category
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If you want to have a gender neutral category, have one
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