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'My kid almost DIED' | Patrick Christys, Martin Daubney, Ben Leo open up about fatherhood - GB Dads
Aug 7, 2026
In the first episode of GB Dads, Patrick Christys, Martin Daubney, and Ben Leo were joined by James Ray to discuss the realities of fatherhood in the modern world. The four discussed candidly the often traumatic moment of childbirth from the father’s perspective, with Martin explaining his own experience was not the “sweetness and light” it is often portrayed.
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0:00
And one of the things I think that is unique for men is that there is something of every child that wants their dad to be a hero
0:07
They want their dad to be extraordinary, extraordinary. I still feel guilty today
0:11
Yeah. Especially when I'm in America now working. And I think, well, I miss Jude's birth
0:18
I'm now missing him playing tennis or missing him taking him to football, whatever
0:23
I was there for Zach's birth, our second one. That was, yeah, that was eventful
0:27
Everyone was, everyone's told that when your child emerges, it's going to be sweetness and light and hops and stalks
0:35
Mine wasn't. It was a nightmare. My kid almost died. And I can remember feeling this kind of sense of guilt
0:41
about a bit of the way I was feeling, which is that I had this overwhelming joy
0:47
that I've got this amazing, healthy, happy little boy and my wife's healthy and our lives are being enriched
0:53
at the same time as slightly being in mourning for the loss of the relationship that Emily and I had on our own
1:01
And I remember being very conflicted about that. There was a cupboard marked pornography
1:07
and I thought, you're on your own in this room, and you can hear the people next door waiting for your sample
1:12
You put through a hatch. They were talking about EastEnders, and I forget. This is the least..
1:18
So Pat Butcher didn't do it for you? Yeah. Welcome to GB Dads with four dads in the studio here at GB News
1:35
You might remember a few of us from your telly box. I'm Martin Dordney, father of two, boy 17 and a girl who is 12
1:44
Patrick Christie, are you here with us today? Yes, hello. Thank you very much. It's a pleasure to be the least good-looking dad on this set
1:50
But thank you. I think I've just been brought in for a bit of light relief. But, yes, I have got an 11-month-old son, George
1:56
So, yes, that's all going well. I've still got the rose-tinted glasses on. It's fantastic. Can't talk yet, so he's yet to mug me off
2:02
Good stuff. Ben Leo, of course, we're delighted to have you here from DC. Of course, you're a long way away from your couple of kids
2:07
That must present you with certain issues and concerns. But, anyway, Ben
2:13
Yes, hello. Ben Leo, two children, six and three. One of them is about to be seven, actually, in a few months
2:20
Yeah, best thing ever. Love being a dad. And it's tough being in America, but we make it work
2:26
And finally, we have James Ray today. James, some people who watch the show will be familiar with
2:32
You do daily reflections for us. Also, you're a men's campaigner and an author
2:36
Tell us about yourself and the importance of male role models. Thanks for having me
2:41
My name's James. I've got two birth sons. Samson is 21, Arthur is 16, and an adopted son who's called Jean
2:48
He lives in Brussels. His dad died, sadly, so he asked me to be his dad when he was 14
2:52
Oh, wow. But my main thing is I take men away in the wilderness. So I take hundreds of guys at a time, thousands of guys a year
2:59
on what we call mind-body-soul adventures. But a lot of it is around fatherhood
3:03
Essentially, it's the father wound, the idea that there's a nice phrase
3:07
which says that it was tragic, actually, that each of us men carry an arrow in the heart
3:13
And that arrow has been shot by our father. Wow. And so there's a feeling like, yeah, how do we deal with that
3:18
or where Ben we won't talk about that in a moment how do we deal with that ourselves but then also
3:22
um Mark Twain famously said my dad did messed me up he's the f word but then his dad effed him up
3:30
too and so there's something around that as well like hang on how am I not just doing exactly the
3:34
same to my kids as to what happened to me and so often we go away with men not exclusively to talk
3:39
about fatherhood but that comes up because it's such a core issue um we'll go away for four days
3:44
and the reason we take men away is because life's so distracting. Even this conversation now, we're going to be in a hurry
3:49
because there's a clock ticking. But these are the sort of things we don't want to hurry
3:53
We don't want to rush. So we need time. So one of the things I do is we go into the wild
3:58
We let nature kind of do its wild thing, which exposes us and uncovers us a bit
4:02
And in that kind of environment, in that space, we can have the conversations we need to
4:06
Everyone's probably thinking it. I'm going to ask it. Do you get naked and take drugs
4:10
Would you prefer it? We did. Well, I'll just ask it. Well, getting naked is really not part of my thinking around any of it
4:17
but some guys, I suppose, will take their clothes off at some point to get changed, I imagine
4:21
I don't see that bit of it. Martin, James just gave a very wholesome explanation of healing the wounds of childhood
4:27
It's funny you say this, because I'm actually looking at doing some of this stuff at the moment, because for me
4:32
sobriety is a big thing. And, you know, you see on Instagram, don't you, a lot of people that go around and do things like, you know
4:38
all the kind of cold water swimming stuff and the retreats and all of that
4:41
So you might have a willing customer here, I think. It would be good to talk to you about that
4:47
Well, I think the real need is that guys effectively can't find these spaces
4:53
And so we struggle to have that conversation in a pub because, again, often it's time, often an environment
4:59
But imagine calling a mate and be like, can we have a long, deep chat? It's just so unusual
5:03
And the risk is, is it weird? Are we all going to get naked or is it going to be odd
5:07
And also for some men, it's like, do I want to show any weakness? What if they think I'm not a real man
5:13
And so for me, one of the great things about the wilderness, about outdoors
5:17
is that it's just a long, wide, open space where anything goes
5:21
You can just say or do what you want. It's kind of the wind blowing every word away. I think a lot of blokes enjoy that anyway, don't they
5:26
They love going into the woods and getting away. I've been saying for the past couple of months, I'd love nothing more than to go and hide in a cabin in the woods with a starling
5:34
We call it an extreme character challenge because the physical side is important
5:38
massively important for men. but the reality is that the physical side is only a conduit your body is like a
5:43
conduit of your of who you are the body holds us and so to exercise the body and
5:47
move the body is really important but ultimately it's the emotions and the psychology behind it that is outside in a while men connecting all right let's
5:54
talk about male role models good place to start some people have them some people
5:59
don't we see a lot of social problems when we don't have good men in people's
6:03
lives gang violence the sort of things we talk about often on GV news is often
6:06
precipitated by an absence of good men, an absence of positive male role models
6:12
Shall we start with who our male role models are? I'll go first
6:17
Pretty obvious. It's my dad. 47 years down the pit, coal miner, always through and through, could barely read and
6:23
write, always went to work, always provided, gave that work ethic. And I just try and pass it on to my kids now
6:29
The number one thing you can do with your kids, make them work hard, make them respect
6:33
people, and you've got to stop them being woke. That's me, Patrick
6:37
Yeah, I mean, look, I am going to echo that my dad has been an absolutely amazing role model
6:42
I mean, I think that he learnt a lot from his parents who were born in a very different generation
6:49
in a very different country with a very different culture. And I think he learnt a lot about maybe what he didn't want to do as a dad
6:57
And he made absolutely every single effort to kind of correct potentially some of the issues that maybe he felt faced him when he was growing up
7:07
Also, my granddad on my mum's side was an Irish immigrant, very, very tough life, you know, kind of was behind a plough at the age of nine
7:16
was, you know, came over to his country at 15, sold his bike for a few bob and was just working every single hour that God sends
7:25
and that was a really, really, really interesting thing for me to see
7:31
both him and my dad, just the work ethic that they had. Just on another kind of slightly different angle about male role models
7:38
I have always, when I was younger, was drawn to kind of mavericks
7:43
like the Shane Warnes of the world or the Paul Gascoines of the world
7:48
people who actually, when you look at it now, had some very obvious character flaws
7:52
whether that was to do with yeah the tense of jeopardy that you get with them
7:58
but fundamentally people who saw their profession very differently to everybody else which is ultimately what what gave them that genius quality so I was always
8:08
drawn to those people where there was always that element of risk or what he gonna do next but in amongst that were just these incredible moments you know I think that something worth picking up on because I think that very male And even on this show I think we got to be so careful
8:20
We're not going to try and present one version of dad like this is dad. And even as we start talking about our male role models, they'll be different
8:27
And one of the things I think that is unique for men is that there is something of every child that wants their dad to be a hero
8:34
That wants their dad to be extraordinary, extraordinary. It's very unusual you hear that about a mum
8:38
Most people want their mums actually to be very stable, very loving, very nurturing, very safe
8:44
But most kids will hear, like, my dad, my dad, my dad's this
8:48
And there's that sense by which it's something like, could he be the one? Is he the Paul Gascoigne of his generation
8:53
Is he the hero? And in that hero's journey, there's always that sense of, as you say, the jeopardy
8:59
but also the risk is catastrophe. For most human men, the problem is they are likely to meet that end
9:07
Kids then get old enough to realise their superhero dad maybe isn't as perfect
9:12
I guess it applies to both parents. You get to an age where it's like, oh, you weren't maybe the person I imagined growing up
9:19
That was my experience with my dad. So my dad was an excellent dad
9:23
I've got three brothers, so four boys. He was excellent until I was about early teens
9:28
Basically he could speak back. As soon as I started answering back, he lost any ability to influence us
9:34
And so what I started to do is find other male role models. so I've been with my wife
9:38
we met at Sunday school so we've been together since we were 12 so her dad's like a second dad to me
9:42
and he's an amazing dad in some areas but I realised he's not brilliant
9:46
in everything so I found another guy who's a brilliant finance guy and I used to learn
9:50
about money from him and another guy who's like really good at being excellent really really excellent
9:54
so I've got these kind of three or four men in my mind who I would say they're my father in one
9:58
they're wrapped up alright Ben yes role models little bit of an outlier
10:04
I haven't seen my dad or my father since I was 10 when my mum kicked him out
10:11
I did have a lodger. I was just telling you off there. I had a lodger called Mike who lived with us
10:16
He moved in actually when my dad was there and he'd been in the house for maybe 20 years
10:20
just living in a spare room, working and so on. And when my dad left
10:25
he kind of became my surrogate father. But then he unfortunately died of cancer
10:30
so I carried his coffin when I was 16 at his funeral
10:34
So I didn't really have a male role model growing up. I guess the closest thing maybe was my two half-siblings
10:41
They're half Greek. A little bit of an age gap. They're a bit older than me
10:45
But, yeah, I mean. Do you know what you missed? Have you reflected on what is it you might not have had that others had
10:51
I guess being very stereotypical, maybe all the sort of manly stuff
10:55
going into the woods, DIY. Anybody will tell you I'm absolutely rubbish at DIY and any hands-on stuff
11:01
I'm trying to get better. order the new toolkit. It's hard to say because I don't know
11:07
I don't know what I've missed because I haven't experienced it. You don't know dark without light
11:11
So I don't know. But not having a father growing up or a male role model
11:17
has just made... I always wanted kids to kind of fill that gap
11:21
And how have you been then as a dad now with kids? Because that's the challenge, isn't it
11:26
Each of us is like, well, I don't know what I don't know, but how am I going to offer something to my kids
11:30
Yeah, that's the point. I just wanted to be I wanted to have children. I knew from a young age I wanted to have children
11:35
I wanted to be the best dad. I wanted to fill that gap inside me and I guess maybe heal that inner child of mine
11:42
who was upset not having a father around by giving that love on
11:47
And I guess in any, I wouldn't say I'm a victim of trauma, but in any situation as a kid
11:52
if you go through something, you can either choose to be a victim and grow up and say, well, I didn't have a male role model around
11:57
I'm going to behave like this or do this and use that as an excuse. Or as I describe it
12:01
use it as rocket fuel and say well actually I'm gonna try and heal the
12:05
wounds of the past and make amends by giving a loving home and fatherhood to
12:10
my kids well let's talk about that shall we next I mean let's start with you Patrick you're the you're the sort of youngest dad around here in terms of how
12:16
well you'll see nothing knocked out of me yet by the moment everyone was
12:22
everyone's told that when you're when your child emerges it's going to be sweetness and light and hops and stalks mine wasn't it was a nightmare my kid
12:31
almost died yeah very very close to death he was a gray lifeless rag doll full c-section and blood
12:37
everywhere it was like something out of a full metal jacket and like nobody ever prepares you
12:42
for that stuff I went to all the lessons I played along with it I was like this this like hands-on
12:47
dad all the groups you know pretending to be interested a lot of the time and then when the
12:51
birth actually came it was a disaster he's beautiful he's 17 he made it but the birth
12:56
can be very tricky. How was your birth? Well, obviously I sailed through it
13:02
I didn't feel a thing. No, it was... Well, it is... Well, even if..
13:09
Whether it goes well or badly, it's still a kind of amazing experience
13:12
in the sense that it's, you know, just awe-inspiring the whole thing
13:17
So many different emotions. I mean, with Emily, because it was our first
13:24
you're at the mercy of a lot of medical advice that you're getting. And I think you are made to feel like
13:29
well, if I go, I'm getting this medical advice or my wife's getting this medical advice
13:34
and that kind of goes against our gut. But then if we decide not to do it
13:37
and the worst thing happens, then how the heck are we going to live with ourselves
13:42
So I think that's quite a common thing when it's your first one. But Emily was induced because they kept saying
13:47
oh, George is looking a bit small. He came out completely normal size. So, which is ridiculous
13:53
But anyway, so that increased the level of pain that she felt, you know, and I found that really difficult
14:02
Yeah, because you're powerless. Because you're helpless. Seeing Emily in pain. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I actually managed to somehow make it even worse
14:07
because we'd bought this thing called a TENS machine. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, and we'd done this practice
14:13
Yeah, we'd done this practice about how to use it. And she was, like, at her absolute worst
14:18
because they'd offered her a C-section, but before she'd really started to feel anything
14:21
So she was like, well, no. And then they made it sound like, well, you can just get one
14:25
whenever you want. And so she was like, well, I don't need it yet. That's all right. And at the time that she
14:31
sorry, not a C-section, an epidural, she said. So the time that she wanted an epidural
14:36
there were only two anesthetists in the whole hospital and they were both in surgery. So we were like
14:41
right, okay, she's in absolute agony. They can't attach the baby monitors because she can't sit still
14:45
enough for it, which is completely fair enough. I mean, good grief. So I was like, don't worry
14:49
I've got the TENS machine. That's all there. So I stuff it to her back
14:53
and I crank it up and she's like, It was the only thing that could have made her pain worse
14:57
at that particular moment. And there was a look that she gave me, and her mum was in the room at this time as well
15:02
and I'll never forget that look that both my wife and my mother-in-law gave me that was like
15:07
how have you managed to make this situation even worse? You're like going... Yeah, I was like, is that better now
15:12
I'm not sure. It's infinitely worse. So, yeah, no, that wasn't great
15:17
But look, I mean, we were very lucky, and we've been very lucky from start to finish
15:22
that basically, aside from the fact that she was in total agony, for a while
15:27
The actual birth itself, you know, went really well and George was fit and healthy
15:31
How is he now, George? He's 11 months old tomorrow. So he's doing well, doing very well, bless him
15:38
I saw your first farm day. Was it farm? I went to the farm. It was good because I brought his animal book with him
15:43
So he got these books where they make the animal noises and you could see that he realised that actually
15:47
these things are real animals now. So that was really cute and that was lovely
15:51
But yeah, I think I just, I don't know. I'm just trying not to screw him up, you know
15:56
That's the thing. That's all I'm trying to do. Plenty of time for that
16:00
It's too late. Plenty of time for that. It's only 11 minutes old. Anyway, Ben, the birth, the magical moment
16:05
Well, I missed the first one. I missed it. How come? Well, because Jude was six weeks early
16:11
and my old newspaper sent me off to... Basically, England played Bulgaria in the football or something
16:16
and the Bulgarian ultras were pulling Nazi salutes in the stands. So it was a big old hoo-ha, big story
16:21
So my paper sent me to Bulgaria to find the ultras. So I sat down with the head ultra in Sofia Bulgaria had literally the pint just landed on my table And Rian called me and said I think my waters have just broken
16:35
And he was six weeks early. Wow. My employers tried to get me back in time
16:40
I had to go via Poland. I was then stuck on a runway in Warsaw, about to take off
16:45
Maybe would have made it, maybe wouldn't. But the captain then came on the intercom and said, I'm sorry
16:49
we're just about to start an air traffic controller strike. So we were stuck on the runway in Warsaw for about six hours
16:56
Anyway, I missed it. How did that make you feel missing it? That was the first one. I still feel guilty today
17:03
Yeah. Especially when I'm in America now working. I think, well, I missed Jude's birth
17:09
I'm now missing him playing tennis or missing him taking him to football, whatever
17:14
I was there for Zach's birth, our second one. That was eventful
17:19
He popped out in the living room carpet. Blimey, no. Gosh. very easy though, no dramas
17:24
But yeah, Jude had to stay in hospital for two weeks because he was so early in special care. Nothing wrong with him
17:29
just to make sure he'd take milk and so on. But yeah, I'll have a forever lasting guilt
17:34
I think, about Messina's birth. But I think that's a wonderful thing, though
17:38
because you can't control this environment at all. I remember when my lab was born
17:43
I remember just whispering in his ear, because I thought he was going to die
17:48
I just remember whispering, you know, stay alive. And you have these weird conversations
17:51
where it's like, you know, take me now. I'll give my life for my boys, just like that
17:58
And you would. Yeah, no doubt, yeah. But you made it. But I remember I was in this intensive care ward for two weeks
18:04
as you mentioned, and I saw kids, like, dying. Tiny. Tiny kids, like, in these, like, ultraviolet blankets
18:13
And there were triplets. And I went home and came back, and then there were two
18:17
And I was getting close with the dads. I was being a bit naughty. I was smuggling a couple of cans
18:22
Because everyone was so... The mothers were upstairs in intensive care. The dads were all downstairs
18:27
And these kids were, like, dying. It was like... What I'm trying to say without lowering the tone
18:31
is that nothing prepares you for the reality of what happens. Did you have to leave your child in special care
18:37
and you'd go home at night with your wife? That's right. She had a seizure. She was sort of upstairs
18:41
I was going home feeling completely, utterly useless and pointless. Yeah. Because I couldn't do anything
18:46
She had an open wound. The kid was, like, on a ventilator for two weeks
18:50
and you can't do anything. It's like everyone told me this was going to be wonderful
18:54
Well, that's the thing that nobody talks about with special care as well. You and the mother having to go home at night
18:59
You were prepared for nine months to imagining having your child, taking them home, everything's great
19:06
But especially for the boy's mum having to go home each night
19:10
without Jude, in this case, leaving him in the... I used to call him the boy in the corner
19:15
because his little hospital bear was in the corner. so we had to come home every night
19:21
and it was harder on Rhianne than me but every night she'd have to
19:25
leave the hospital without her child for two weeks we'd call up in the night, three in the morning
19:29
or she would anyway and say is he okay everything alright so nobody prepares you for that
19:34
and that's the thing I think that a lot of lads don't talk about
19:38
even those, I think we were all quite hands on we went to all the groups and whatnot, but you did right
19:43
just mucking and trying to be a modern dad my dad was down in the pit, he was doing overtime
19:47
That's what our parents did. There was no hands-on dads when I was a kid
19:52
My dad was always at work. He was always a mum. And so it's changed to be a dad a lot
19:57
It's a different age, isn't it? Especially with their... I mean, I'll never forget that, Ben
20:01
that next to my... Any flight of mine's delayed. I'll probably be going nowhere more important
20:05
than you were going to go home, to have the flight delayed on the tarmac. But I suppose that it's so hard these days
20:11
because you can get back from wherever. You can make the effort. You can..
20:16
And so to not either be there or to not make the effort is the big shock
20:20
But for hundreds of years, people would have found that in a letter. By the way, you know, your father again for the third time or whatever it is
20:26
And so I think we do have a lot of expectation on it. And whilst I think you're absolutely right, whilst obviously the empathy is always and understanding is always with the mother in terms of the trauma of what's just happened
20:36
There is this sort of lonely place for dads where you're helpless for a while. You're being told what to do
20:42
And effectively, you can't add any value. I can hear a lot of mums out there going
20:47
you're making it about the men. How dare you make it about the men? No, we're not
20:51
Of course, we all understand. This is a show called GB Dads. Yeah, but this is a safe space
20:58
I think that's a good point because I remember I wrote about the birth experience
21:02
I used to work for the Daily Mail and the CERN before GB News existed. And I went on Good Morning Britain with Philip Schofield
21:10
before we knew about Philip Schofield. Anyway, I digress. We had a debate about birth and trauma to fathers
21:17
It had, like, millions of hits. How dare you? Wow. How dare you feel traumatised
21:22
I was like, well, I've never seen my wife like she's had a belly blown open before
21:26
It's quite grim. And I'm allowed to say it's quite grim. And my son nearly died before my eyes
21:32
and had the beep, he had all of that. Isn't this the problem? So you're allowed to be traumatised
21:36
but then when you say you are, it's like, well, how dare you? Whenever we take one perspective on something like this
21:41
there are other perspectives, and they are also valid. It doesn't matter. It doesn't mean we're saying this is the number one perspective
21:46
Everyone should be worrying about the poor dad who has to drive home on his own. No one's saying that. But I think the point that we can have, we are experiencing things
21:54
We do have our own perspective on what's happening. But men generally don't talk about it
21:58
Also, if you were to call a mate, I imagine most men don't know what to say, don't know how to help
22:03
Probably just said, all right, mate, well, you know, all the best. Hope you're all right. Hope everything's OK. I'll say a prayer for you
22:07
Let's go for a point. Let's have a beer. And actually, we're unable just to say that sounds terrible. You know, can I be there
22:13
I've actually done a tiny bit of chaplaincy work in those moments. And you realise, again, that's where the power of faith really
22:18
to have somebody wandering corridors saying, I can pray while you're driving home, I'll pray
22:23
I think there's something where we just lose all sense of control. And that's when, for me, God becomes the big help
22:30
the ultimate, if you like, father. And I think there's something there that is still very deep in our society
22:36
and deep in our psyche, much as people want to claim it isn't. These are moments where I think God really shines
22:41
Absolutely. I agree with that. When there was the moment where they couldn't put a heart monitor on the baby
22:48
they weren't sure if anybody was going to have to have an emergency C-section or she was in agony, all of that
22:55
I feel very lucky that I've got a faith in God. And that was my ability to just be able to pray and to hand that over
23:04
was actually very, very freeing. Do you think as well that one of the things to touch on what we're talking about there
23:09
about how it's something that blokes don't talk about or society doesn't talk about is when the baby is born
23:17
I'm very lucky. Emily and I have got a great relationship, at least I think we do
23:24
and it obviously changes your relationship when you have a baby. And, you know, in the overwhelming sense, that is for the better
23:34
But especially at the start there where, like Emily was breastfeeding, so the baby doesn't really need me to live
23:42
And, you know, in the way that it needs its mum. And that obviously goes on for a period of time
23:48
And I can remember feeling this kind of sense of guilt about a bit of the way I was feeling
23:55
which is that I always had this overwhelming joy that I've got this amazing, healthy, happy little boy
24:01
and my wife's healthy and our lives are being enriched, at the same time as slightly being in mourning for the loss of the relationship that Emily and I had on our own
24:12
And I remember being very conflicted about that. But I suppose, I don't know
24:17
Blokes don't really talk about that, do they? Well, when me and Rhianne came home after having Jude
24:22
finally we took him home, we plonked him in the middle of the front room in his car seat
24:26
and we both said, oh, my God, what have we done? And that lasted for about 24 hours
24:32
It was almost a grief, as you said, Patrick. It was kind of like, you have to accept your old life is gone
24:37
It will never be the same again. Some people I spoken to say that it takes weeks for them to get over that For me it was about a day but it uh what on earth have i done you reminded me by just saying carcy we once left our eldest in the car got into the house did the shopping i got the shopping carried on to it and for a period of time
24:54
complete both of us completely forgot and then it was just that moment of hang on and in the car
25:00
sleeping quietly was the baby david cameron was doing that when his kid was about 14
25:04
The pub in the Cotswolds. Classic. Yeah, it's an incredible moment. And then, by the way, the second birth of my daughter was a dream
25:12
Perfect. And it kind of, my missus wanted another kid. And we had five, you mentioned the five-year gap between mine
25:17
Yes. And I just didn't want another kid. After this trauma, I just thought, why would you bother
25:22
What's the point of revisiting this terrible, terrible incident? My wife was like, no, I want to do it, so it's not like that
25:30
Five years. You know the first time, without getting into details, the first time it was like a one-dark finish
25:35
The pregnancy. It was a what? One-dark finish. What the hell's that
25:40
First time we decided to have a baby. What does that mean? Straight in the bullseye. Oh, sorry
25:44
Martin's the first time you tried. I'm drawing a metaphor here. He's a fertile man
25:48
That's really what we're saying. Between him and Boris Johnson. There'd be people getting pregnant next door
25:52
It was a one-dark finish. Second time round, there was so much concern and worry about..
25:56
I'll be honest, I didn't want a second kid. The same house, the same parents, the same life
26:02
same bodies, the same everything, took a year. And I was like, I never believed in this nonsense about
26:07
oh, it's all in the mind. But I tell you what, I think it is. So you wanted the first child, your intent on having the first child
26:12
And it was a one-dollar finish, as you call it. And the second one, you weren't so keen
26:16
No, that's right. And the missus really was, and I really wasn't. And it took a year of trying
26:22
And that perplexed me. I'm a great believer in intent. You go into something with intention and, you know
26:29
like getting too metaphysical, everything is built on energy. so maybe there's something in it. Well, and the power of the mind is huge
26:34
I mean, you see this with placebos and healing, don't you? You take a fake tablet, a placebo, and a real one
26:39
and people get healed better on the fake and the real. And I think that's the mind, isn't it, just kicking in
26:44
And we went for counselling, couples counselling, because, you know, I'm still with a lover
26:49
I want to be with a stable family environment. My parents divorced when I was 10
26:54
It was very traumatic, so I'm determined, whatever I do, to keep the framework
26:58
and I just said, I don't, I'm not feeling it. Yeah. And she just said, do you know what
27:04
Go out and have a bottle of wine and a pizza. Oh, I can do that. I'm very good at that. Yeah
27:10
And that night, buff. Amazing. Yeah. And it's just, it made me realise
27:14
I always thought it was nonsense or hippie or a bit silly. The mind just took over the bodies
27:20
It's quite astonishing. Yeah. And they're all going right. Amazing. Yeah. Yeah, I've got some friends who've been struggling
27:26
to have a child for a long time and part of the problem was that every time she was
27:31
it was the right time of the month, it was like, right, quick, now, and he was just starting to feel, he's a big rugby player
27:36
It's all thermometers. It's all alpha male. It's like, oh, my God. How? I'm tired. This just isn't loving
27:42
And the damage is that you suddenly start to become this sort of baby factory. Spoon factory. How do we function
27:47
And actually keeping that relationship alive is so important. Did you go and get yourself your swimmers tested in that one year period
27:54
Yes, I did. I went to a place in Brickson, I forget, there was this little hole in the wall
27:59
It's a true story. You know, I used to edit the magazine Loaded. Yes. Well, when you go into this room, there was a cupboard marked pornography
28:08
And I thought, you're on your own in this room. And you can hear the people next door waiting for your sample
28:13
You put through a hatch. They were talking about EastEnders, I never forget
28:17
This is the least... So Pat Butcher didn't do it for you. The least conducive environment ever
28:22
So I opened this magazine called Pornography. and I brought out a copy of the magazine that I edited
28:27
No way. With a photo of me in it. And I was like, oh, my God
28:31
That'll do it. That'll do it. There you go. How did they know? That was a no
28:37
At that point, it became funny. And again, I relaxed. But yeah, everything was normal
28:41
Hang on a minute. How, without getting too graphic, if you knew what was the content of that magazine
28:45
because you'd edited it. Well, there were others. Right. There was a selection
28:50
FHM was more. But my point being, when the boys went away to be tested
28:54
came back normal. I was like... So again, there's nothing physically wrong
28:59
And my missus got tested, nothing physically wrong. But mentally, it wasn't happening
29:04
And I never believed in that stuff until it happened to me. Yeah. But also, this leads, doesn't it
29:08
to the conversation we were having about you being away a lot, because there's that feel of
29:13
we want to be present so often. So there we are at the birth, trying to get there
29:17
flying across the world, being present. Then there's gaps where we're not needed
29:21
And suddenly the male, there's that sense of like, Oh, I better go back to my everyday job. I better go look after the other kids or whatever. I can fill the gaps
29:28
And then this sort of life progresses. We get into the rhythm. And I think often for men, there's this challenge now of, well, how do I balance work life
29:35
How do I balance my time at home? And obviously, Ben, you know, you're away a lot
29:39
How do you balance it? And what are your thoughts on that? It's tough. The reason I'm in America, you know, it's great. It's great for my career. It's a great opportunity
29:51
but it's also for the boys. It's for them. It's to pay for the house they're in
29:55
so they have a beautiful home to grow up in and their childhood. Then sometimes
30:01
if I'm crying myself to sleep in D.C., which I do sometimes because I miss them so much
30:06
I just think, you know, I'd rather live in a one-bed flat or a studio
30:10
and just be with my kids as opposed to doing all this. So it depends what mood I'm in day to day
30:16
Yeah, but it's tough. But then, again, I think on the flip side, as you mentioned earlier
30:20
decades ago there were people, there were fathers going to war for 12 months or going off to
30:25
for tours or whatever. And you wouldn't have FaceTime or webcams or the ability to call them
30:32
whenever. So yeah, it depends day to day. It's very tough. But do you feel also the pressure of that
30:37
is on you? Because I think that's something that also men often feel is, I have to hold this
30:41
situation together. Oh, intently. Intently. And again, I don't want to, there'll be mums
30:46
watching this saying well don't make yourself the victim but I just
30:51
you know maybe you guys can agree as fathers but I have everything on my
30:55
shoulders I look after the house I look after the bills I've got to be there
30:58
for the kids I've got to perform on air if I say one thing wrong I'm going to
31:02
get cancelled you know it's a lot and then I'm away at the same
31:07
time as well I'm in America I'm across the Atlantic I'm in a different time zone it
31:11
puts a strain on everything. Well yeah I was just thinking as you were
31:15
saying that you know I do feel unbelievably lucky and also kind of a bit of a sense of guilt as well
31:22
that I think, you know, Emily's got to be a mum to George and she's also got to be a bit of a carer to me at times, you know
31:30
And that is, she takes on a huge amount with that, takes on a huge amount as well as doing a show three hours a day
31:35
and all of that. But, yeah, I mean, I'd be an absolute mess without her
31:42
I'd probably be dead, to be honest with you. Yeah, so it's a bit... How long have you been together
31:46
gosh, four or five years now, five years, I suppose. Yeah, but it's, no, it's, yeah, again, it's, you know
31:53
she's just like the glue that holds it all together, genuinely. I'm not just saying that, but she is really the glue
31:59
that holds it all together, you know, and, yeah, it would be, it's amazing, she always seems to just know the right answer about things
32:08
She seems to be tapped into exactly what the right thing to say or do is, really
32:13
I don't know where she finds that emotional pit from. I've got a ceiling, you know, like there's a time limit on me
32:20
before I can just go, I've stopped caring about this now, I've got my own stuff going on
32:25
Whereas somehow she always seems to be able to find a little bit more. But that's the maternal instinct
32:29
That is, I don't care what anyone says, that is a true thing. Women can deal with, I don't know if it's all about screaming and crying
32:35
and having kids more, but I think men just do have a natural limit on that
32:39
All right, gentlemen, I think that might be a good place to leave it because we've barely got started
32:44
Barely got started on where we can go in future episodes. Patrick, superb
32:49
Ben, superb. Superb there, my friend. I tell you what, that was very, very inspiring from you
32:53
We need to get back and do this again. James Ray, thank you very much to you all. Thanks for tuning in to the first episode of GBN Dads
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