Chopper's Political Podcast episode 97 - Steve Yemm and Luke Charters - WATCH IN FULL

Coming up on Chopper's Political Podcast

The reason why it's happening, and you must know this as an economist, is the Treasury looks at how..

I'm not an economist. I just want to get my CV spot on with each other. Rachel Reeves, are you listening for that one? Yes, you are, Rachel Reeves

Welcome back to Chopper's Political Podcast, where I bring you the best guest gossip news and stories

from our studios at GB News here in the heart of Westminster. My name is Christopher Hope

I am GB News' political editor. Later in the show, we're speaking with Luke Charters

If you haven't heard from him, you really must stick around. He's got great stories to tell about his accent

how he's had to change that to get ahead in politics and how he is treated at Oxford University

And it's not very nice to hear about that, I think. My first guest, though, is Steve Yem, Labour MP for Mansfield

Steve, welcome back to Tropical's Political Podcast. I know you talked a few weeks ago with my colleague Catherine Forster

What I want to talk to you about is electric vehicles. A concern, I think, from Femelli

We're being driven, excuse the pun, towards adopting more electric vehicles by the government

But it seems that consumers aren't really biting. What's going on? Well, I think that's part of the problem, right

that consumers have a lot of concern about buying this type of vehicle. Anxiety about range

about charging, about the cost and so forth. And of course, this drives through to a concern for

car manufacturing. Car manufacturers and workers say to me that they're concerned about the future

of manufacturing in the UK. Given the EV mandate, the government's drive towards that type of

vehicle and the reluctance that consumers have. Yeah, yeah, that's right. I mean, and it seems

that they're concerned about value for money. They're concerned about range anxiety, the time

it takes to charge. I'm looking at what dealers are saying. It's only really the overnight trickle

charge that actually is value for money because it's quite expensive to plug them in. Well, it is

I mean, you have that a lot of concern about what does it cost to buy a vehicle? And of course

where the state is subsidizing that cost. There's an electric car grant

so every one of those cars is subject to a significant input from the taxpayer

It is still an issue, given all of that. As I understand it, there's a lot of discounting by the manufacturer

on the forecourt as well. And even with all of that, there's this issue with consumer sentiment

around the cost of buying a vehicle. and the issue that you raise about the cost of running it, which I think is also prevalent

Yes, along with this issue about where do I charge, how long does it take

do I have to be concerned, what happens if I run out of charge and so forth

And that's because two things are happening here. There's a target, so one in three cars now must be EV cars when they're sold

rising to 100% by 2035. At the same time, the government is saying after 2030, you can't buy any more new petrol or diesel cars

So they are trying to force the market. They are. And look, by the end of 2027, we're going to move to a situation where there's an expectation of more than 50%

Next year. End of next year, we're barely at 25% to 30% area now

With discounted vehicles. With discounted vehicles, it's hard to see either the manufacturers, who as I understand it, have discounted in the billions

There's a lot of support going into it, but it's hard to see us raising from where we are right now to meeting those timelines

That's a concern that I have because I have constituents in Mansfield who work in car manufacturing

in. I have manufacturers who tell me this is a real challenge for them, because when they don't

meet the mandate, they're fined per vehicle. Yes, this started under the Tories, of course. I mean

the Tories haven't got anywhere to go on this, really. I mean, I think Rishi Sunak tried to push

out the target to 2035 on the end of new diesel and petrol cars. That was about 2030, but simply

the Labour government is doing what Boris Johnson wanted to do. So there's been a big effort

really, from both major parties in government to do this. And it's not working, and it's

deal with concerning i think well it is for me and it's why i've said to the government

they really need to think about a strategic review of the ev mandate that's scheduled in any case for

2027 what i've been there isn't it steve it is for me and what i've been saying for some time

right through um second half of last year is bring it forward to early 2026 i'm now saying

to government this is really has some urgency we'll have seen just in the past few weeks

layoffs of bmw mini in cowley um there have been some other layoffs in the supply chain for jlr

as well i'm really concerned when i hear about that because i think it's part of our productive

capacity yeah as a country it's part of our industrial power and uh you know as a country

We need to make products that we can export. Otherwise, if we don't do that, we go bankrupt eventually, as a contractor

This is very important. There's a car dealer in the Terry-Off called Peter Smythe. He says he can't force a market to move faster than it's ready to

And he says it's his business. One rule has never changed. The customer is always right

Perhaps it's time the government listened to them too. Well, indeed. Well, look, customers, the manufacturers, the dealerships

Now, you're not alone. The trade union. No. the workers where when there's unanimity it means that uh something has to change i think now you're

you're in you're in power you're you know an important mp a red wall mp what's happening are

you making the case with like other colleagues on this to the government i am and a number of us who

have this interest we have a labor interest in our constituency small l labor interest but you

I have people who work in the industry who are my neighbours, live on my street

And I have my trade union, Unite. I have the manufacturer, Toyota, in the East Midlands, in the supply chain

who tell me they're very concerned. And so at Burnston in Derbyshire, so I have people in Mansfield who travel there

I've visited the plant. It's a very, very advanced and impressive site there

a very good employer and and so forth everything that the government says about high quality jobs

um i don't want to see that put at risk and that's why along with colleagues i wrote to ministers

a cross department because it's a cross department matter the mandate of course is owned by the

department for transport and i believe we're getting to the point where that message is being

heard now we've seen change right across the world relaxation of mandates and of course that

changes the way that car manufacturers think about these things they're multinational companies they

develop global strategies um and so you know we we need to catch up with that Just to be clear you written to Haya Alexander the Transport Secretary Maybe Rachel Reid a chartered start

For those two alone. Well, we wrote to Miliband. Well, indeed, look. Miliband too

All three. Look, let me tell you, this is a cross-department matter. We wrote to number 10, to number 11, to Business and Trade

to DESNES, and of course to DFT, which owns the mandate. Any reply, one reply

Yeah, we've had replies. And, you know, we've now had a meeting with the Secretary of State at the Department for Transport

I do believe that we're in a position where we're being heard now

But it's really important, of course, that we keep having that conversation and move it forward

So, and what's your ask? Is your ask to slip the 2030 deadline in 2035 as the European Union has done

Well, my ask is much simpler than that. It's get together with the industry and have a strategic review of the mandate

now. ASAP. Not next year now. ASAP. To bring a full review. And so let's talk to the industry

about what their constraints are, because look, they're under this pressure with the EV mandate

but it's not the only pressure they're under. They're under pressure of the employee car

ownership scheme, which is very, very important to them. They're under pressure of tariffs

those that export to the United States, which is important for companies like JLR

and increase in liver companies like Toyota as well. But, you know, this is multiple pressures on the industry

We need to have that conversation about not, you know, what does the industry look like in a crisis or in decline

What do we need to do to manufacture more cars in the UK

make this a part of our industrial strategy, rebuild our industrial power in car manufacturing

How many of your colleagues have written, I mean, is it three dozen, 30, 40

It's in that area, yes. Is it 30 or 40? You're in the right area

Absolutely. Well, I'm only asking that, not to be intrusive, but to understand the scale of how many MPs are worried about it

you know, as well as you on your own. It's on my own. It's a significant number, and I think..

It's one in 10, another party. I guess so. And look, some of us are really concerned

because we meet with workers, we meet with management, and so forth

and you know we hear the same thing there's real unanimity around this question and so you know

some of us are very concerned about jobs in our constituencies and so you know we are making our

views known to government and you're asking for a review you're not asking for any specifics we're

not for example relaxing the 2035 ban or 2030 ban look i think all of those things are on the table

Right. There are all sorts of things that we could do to make this work better

But I think we're all somewhat open minded. There are a lot of ideas from industry

I would say the industry is committed to decarbonisation. Yeah. This is not an anti net zero

Speed. Pledge is a speed. It's speed and timing and pace question

It's about how do we do decarbonisation without UK deindustrialisation? and want to be able to do

we're going to get carbon out of the transport system. We're committed to that as Labour MPs

I think that there's a good consensus. Let's start with the car industry

But let's not de-industrialise and destroy our industrial power in car manufacturing

while we do that. We should not sacrifice that and I don't believe that we have to

I've been to Toyota and Bernadette and it's deeply impressive as a plug. It certainly is, yeah. Other issues on your agenda

You may want to see the fuel duty freeze carrying on after the end of August

Well, it might be necessary to do that. And if it is necessary, of course, I'll be in favour of that

But of course, we want a resolution of the situation in the Middle East. It's very hard right now

You know, we want a de-escalation and we want to get fuel flowing through the strait again

And we want to avoid that situation. But look, if it comes to it in August, September, I think it was certainly the right thing to consider a further freeze on fuel jets

And just what I've got you, the issue of small boats, it was raised in PMQs this week by Nigel Farage, of course

So the reformer are talking about that a lot at the moment. You're concerned too about the poorer southern border

Well, absolutely. Look, I've been on the record many times as saying I don't think we have a nation unless we have secure borders

so you know i am very supportive of the approach that the home secretary's taking on this i think

it's the right approach i think we need secure borders i won't be content until we do my

constituents agree with me on that uh very very important question for me in mansfield um yeah

big issue on the doors you mentioned shibana mood there illegal migration get that legal migration

I mean, where are you on that? I mean, also, with withdrawing or changing the indefinite leave for remain rules from 10 years to 5 years, that is controversial amongst some of your colleagues

Do you support, Shimon Ramud, on that? Well, look, there's a consultation that's gone on

I've met many of my constituents, some from West Africa, some from India, who work largely care sector, NHS

I think they have a good and valid point about fairness. But at the end of the day, the expectation that was set is that when they applied for indefinite leave to remain, it would be under the rules that were in place at that time rather than when they were granted the visa

So I'm generally supportive of the government. But you're not sure of the retrospective nature

Well, look, I think, you know, we do need to look at the outcome of consultation and think about what does a transitional arrangement look like

Perhaps exempt those in the care sector, maybe. It could be care, it could be the NHS, it could be people who are particularly filled at significant labour shortages

And look, we've got to be also very concerned that many of those workers would be very well received in other parts of the world

For instance, the Middle East and Australia. In Australia, they would get permanent residents after they've been trained by the NHS for two years

So we really need to think carefully about those kind of questions

We don't want a mass exodus of trained migrant workers from the NHS

Is that the model being looked at by the government, the Australian model? Not that I'm aware of, but of course, you know, we have people who we have had, who have been trained in either the care sector or the NHS

I think that they would be very well received with that training in other countries

I actually think they're an asset to our NHS, and we should be thinking about how do we retain them in the NHS

And our return on their investment. Well, indeed. And look, I hope that we'll look properly at that

in respect of the responses that we had to the consultation. Well, Steve, your letter, let us know what comes from that

Are there no indication of how I had it Alexander today? When you'll hear more on that

Well, look, I think... You're encouraged by the answer. I am encouraged I think that there an openness to discuss it I think there an understanding of the issue It is a complex cross issue but I do think that we now being heard The issues are on the table

I think the manufacturers also are serving themselves with government. All we don't want to hear is jobs being lost anywhere

Look, is it this? Look, we don't want to get to the point where we're a crisis

We don't want a steel, British steel, industry-type situation. And, you know, we don't want to bail out. We want to think ahead and get right the proper policy in place to support the industry and understand their constraints

Steve Yen, thank you for joining us today on Choke Lewis Lecture. Great to see you here. Steve Yen, though

Lovely to be here. Thank you. Hello, I'm Bev Turner. Now, it can feel like the money in our bank accounts at the moment does not keep up with the cost of living

and maybe there's a solution. I'm here today with the CEO of Tally Money, Cameron Parry

Cameron, what is Tally Money? Well, Bev, with Tally Money, you get a current account and a debit card

but instead of pounds, you use milligrams of gold as your everyday money

So why gold? Gold traditionally is a great store of value. It has, on average, gone up at over 11% per annum for the last 25 years

against the pound. It's tripled in value in the last decade. And in the last two years alone

it's increased by 50% against the pound. Banks' savings products just can't compete with that

level of growth. But this isn't just about gold. This is about a currency that you guys have created

at Tally Money. Explain it to me as though I'm an idiot. So look, people need to be able to hold

their earnings and build their savings in a money that retains its value and remains in their legal

control and remains theirs to access away from government control. Great. You had me at not

exposed to government control. You should feel safe and happy with your money. You should have

peace of mind. The more money you see in your bank balance, and that's the type of thing we're

trying to deliver, and give people choice in the type of money they get to use every day

Brilliant. Thank you so much, Cameron. Thank you. Luke Charter, welcome to Chopper's political podcast. Great to have you on. Thanks for coming on

Thanks a lot. You've got an impressive background, born in York, your time in the city in the Bank of England

but why on earth are you an MP? You're making money before. Serious money. Chopper, you're very kind. But, you know, I remember one of my first days after being elected

I went to go meet some old colleagues in Canary Wharf and they said

oh, what's the Labour MP doing out there? But it's great to come into this job, I think

with a bit of private sector background. And we were just talking before we came in

about how you tackle things like small boats. How would you approach that in the private sector

It does teach you a lot about how you should tackle the big policy issues. Sounds like a result-based idea

being from a shawanna mood reportedly, looking at some kind of, you know

if France stops all boats, you get paid more money. That seems to make a degree of sense to me

But people have worked for me, say, when I've been in fintech. If they hit their KPIs, guess what

it's no great surprise, they get a bigger bonus. So that's how you operate

And what are your key performance indicators as an MP? For me, it's the constituency case where..

Come on, just you and me talking, you know what this is. You know, you're on telly, it's sort of a big thing, right

Well, you've got to do the bread and butter, I'm here. You know, because I live in my constituency

Some MPs don't, they choose not to. That's where my family are. I want to know that if I'm dropping my kid off at school

I've done all the casework in the local area, so that's it. But I think it's just getting the word out about some of the work I'm doing around fraud, around defence, taking on the manosphere, all these sorts of things

That's the real KPI, I think. Yeah, yeah, quite. Now, just briefly on your background, we discussed recently off camera about an experience you had at Oxford University, about your accent, is that right

That's right, yeah. Well, I'm a state school kid and I'm proud I went to Oxford

I hope you don't mind me saying that because I worked bloody well out as I get there. But when I got there, I found that there was maybe one or two tutors

older in mindset, one might say, that mocked me for how I spoke

And you can tell, if you're listening in, I've got quite a broad northern accent

and I'm proud of it. Do you want to know something? I've never really admitted this before. I watered it down when I was at uni

I watered it down when I was in the city. Maybe we can talk about that. And I was mocked

How were you mocked then, Nick? Well, it would be things like, if you ever want to go into

you want to do a good interview and get a graduate job, you might want to turn down your accent. You want to go and do a master's and you're going to be interviewing

turn it down, they're not going to understand you. So many adults, listening in right now, they might feel

judged about how they speak. And, you know, maybe it did get under my skin a bit

Maybe it did. I just wanted to crack on. Well, they should be the ones that are on your team

I didn't always find that. And unfortunately, you know, I was at the Bank of England

I had an amazing job there. I was taking on counterfeiters, launching some of the plastic money

the polymer money. I can maybe talk about that. And wildlife and all these sorts of things

But I just wanted to crack on, work hard in that amazing old Threadneedle Street building

I don't know if you've been. It's fantastic. You've been outside. You go through the turnstiles. You've seen the gold

I haven't seen. Well, I've lifted the gold. I've lifted one. Yeah. And, you know, you walk in and there's a guy pointing at you with a gun

because it's a central bank and you feel, you know, my background

Look where you come from. Yeah, it was tremendous. And there's a similar feeling now in the House of Commons

Well, thank you for saying that. I mean, it's just, you know, but then when there are some old-fashioned comments

it chips away at you. And it's not like that just for Northerners

We've got so many regional accents in Britain, haven't we? And I think you do a good job on GBN of actually getting people on

that sound a bit different. It's not just RP, not just... We have actors across the board amongst our reporting staff and elsewhere

I'm from Liverpool. I'm from Fawley. Yes, I know. I lost my accent, I suppose

I lost it at school. I went to private school. What last do you think? I don't know. I think I wanted to probably fit in

like you're saying there. I was quite a broad Scouse accent until I was seven, then lost it

You know, it comes out and I'm drunk sometime. I'll be honest with you, Luke. But what's this gravy line about it

Someone said gravy. Oh, you know what it's like, the mocking and the banter

It's, you know, what's in that mug? Is it a mug of gravy or is it a mug of tea

It's just silly. Surely little tutors or just some of the old..

That's what I sound it, Luke. I want to fight this battle for you now. I mean, I appreciate you've moved on from this

but I think it's just outrageous. There's a sudden bias, I think, a lot of the time in business

in media and the like. I know this government's trying to move, you know

these central economic hubs, Manchester, Birmingham, like you have Frankfurt and Munich in Germany, for example, right

Well, it's just that feeling, isn't it, that if you know you know you're northern a chopper you just feel the north is forgotten about

yeah you know i don't want to bang on about hs2 and all that lot but when when you saw when you've

been watching this for 10 20 30 years unfolds in all that you've seen the south they get a full

banquet lunch transport elizabeth line and the north fighting for crumbs like if you actually stuck and bunged the and plonked the Elizabeth line up north it would run from Liverpool to Leeds

Can you imagine just how joined up you get? I call it like a bit of a northern arc

It could be this great power of the parts of the north

the uniting. I've done that journey because my family's from Liverpool. I've been going to Leeds recently

and you're on that rattly train. I mean, is it Transpanan Express? I mean, some of it from going to Southport and then down to Formel

but it is like two carriages. I mean, if Cavitman has run that train, they'd think, what

Well, I will. Credit where credit's due. I think they've died a little bit under the last lot

But under this lot, we're putting a lot of money into that electrification because it's smoother. It's just carmack

And you've got to build, you've got to hook those economic zones on your river

The reason why it's happening, and you must know this as an economist, is the Treasury looks at how..

I'm not an economist. I just want to get my CV spots on with each other. Rachel Reeves, are you listening for that one

Yes, you are, Rachel Reeves. If you were at the Bank of England, weren't you? You were like Rachel Reeves was a bit

The less draw available is worth in there. But my point to you on spending is the Treasury want to maximise bang for the buck

If you put more money into the South on infrastructure, you get a better economic response from the money invested

Although long term, arguably the North would benefit from that money, of course

Well, I think this is something called the Green Book Rules, that set up what's called the ROI, the return on investment

But that would be a bit of a secret. It would, but it's created a bit of a doom loop, hasn't it

And up north, do you know what's our best asset? Our people. And you talked about Leeds

Do you know what's happening in Leeds? The Bank of England started HQ there

Also, I used to work at the FCA, the regulator. They've plonked themselves in the FCA

Maybe my little lad, if he wants to go into finance, he might not need to move to London in 10, 20, 20 years from now

you might be able to have a fully fledged career up north. Wouldn't that be the best? That would be fantastic

And that, of course, is what drains the north of people. You think we get a job down south

I mean, I came down south, maybe, and you're here as an emby, although you live in New York, which is fantastic

You'd be pushing for something called giving back to the grafters, or the grafters, as you would say

Grafters, I think, is the way we'd go for it. What is bringing back to the... What does it mean

It's a philosophy chopper. I call it radical pragmatism. Most people, what do they want

I just want to simplify life. for a lot of people, you know, they want to save all year long

They want to go on an all-ink holiday with a family. They've worked hard for so long, they want to have a great experience

So in Parliament, I've been pushing for some small little fixes about travel. So for example, no more roaming fees when you go abroad

You know, we've all got these whizzy passports with a chip in it. It's got like an RFID thing in it

Why do Bricks get stuck abroad queuing for hours when they go abroad

However you're voting on Brexit, like my dad or whatever, but he didn't vote to be stuck in a queue for hours on end

And I thought you'd remain. I voted remain, yeah, but, you know, a lot of my family up north didn't

And I love them, I respect them, and I hear them. But no-one voted for all of this

This nonsense, this red tape nonsense. So giving back to the grafters, it means politicians fixing some of the smaller issues and annoying

Is that what this Brexit realignment means? Because we're not going to go back into the Customers Union, we're told that

because that'll be ripping up the American deal, the Australian deal, the Indian deal, and the EU deal

But we are looking at doing, we are looking at some form of single market alignment

Yeah, I think we should go jumping into the single market, rejoining that, but can we align

You know, at the end of the day, right, my dad, who voted leave, like a lot of my family

he wouldn't mind paying 10, 20 quid or however much off his monthly food shop

If the SPS deal, which is under food deal, and the right deal

And that's enough for this year, Rachel Reeves told Parliament on Tuesday

They'll be looking at those deals on the sanitary and find the sanitary areas done. That's a relief

Where are you on the leadership of your party? Lisa Nandy in the House magazine says that Andy Burnham

should have been allowed to stand in a Gordon and Benton by an action

Well, I'll always absolutely bat for Northerners, passionate Northerners like Burnham and Angela Rayner to be a massive part of it

and Lisa Nandy to be part of it. And apart from those three, only lease and handies

that have got a job in Cabinet, right? I do think that, at the end of the day

one of the things I love about GBN, this might sound a bit nerdy if you watch GBN

you go down in the corner and it shows the weather. Yeah. And it shows shipley

cool, you know, it shows Hull and all of that. And I think in those places

it's a great point of recognition, but in those places, they are more bothered about

the things we've been talking about. The cost of fuel at the pumps, the cost of energy bill, they're not plugged in

to what is an SW1 type bubble starter, the daily, the hourly leadership movement

I'm not in the bubble. Elsewhere though, I mean, where do you sit on welfare reform

for example, that's an issue for a billion spent on welfare by the next election, half of that on pensions

but working benefits are going up by about a lot. Where do you sit on this

Nettles, your party has failed to grab so far and many would say, left or right, that really Labour have the political space

to do actual welfare reform and don't have a big fight about it. Well, I think we do need to have a fight about it for the young people that have been left behind

And, you know, as I said, I've been in the private sector, I've hired people, I've been down to job centres and hired people who have been what's called NEAT

which is a bit of a terrible acronym, really, not in education, employment or training

I like to say not yet. and I've been at the job centre and do you know what was the theme of some of them

Parents never worked. And having a job in Australia, it was a springboard

and some of them went off to do photography, some of them went back to college, some of them stayed in hospitality

And I think that one of the travesties has been lots of young people, they'd come out of school

they get stuck on universal credit and then they're on that treadmill for life

That is a dangerous thing. That's why the welfare bill, Because, look, I'm one of the youngest MPs

I'm 30. We need to tackle this not just for the next three years

but for the 20, 30 years. If we don't sort out young people who are on universal credit

when they don't need to be, then we've got a real issue. So things like giving SMEs three grand to start apprenticeship

that might just tilt the, you know, it might just tilt that hiring division of a manager to make it work

And that's the place where the reform come from. They want to, they're looking at

have been looking at lifting the level at which you've stopped paying tax to £20,000 a year

Although that would be cost us 72 billion quids. That's been parked for drop by this

by the Reform Party. But they, that's where... I know it's a trap to be honest. Well, they have moved around a bit

but that's where they're targeting the people you're describing there. I think we've got to bring apprenticeships back

And, you know, if you go to York College, you're always welcome. It's one of the few colleges in Britain

that does stone masonry. Does it? And New York is phenomenal. My hero is killed

Yeah, my dad will have joined on there after the fire. My mum worked there. And what they did well in the 13th century was very simple

The stonemasons, they lived in the yard of the Minster. It was a full proper package

It was an attractive package for someone to want to be an apprenticeship. Can I be honest? Can I be just blunt

Too many people, they're in sixth form and they're at state school. The only offer that's presented to them is university

And it's not the best solution for a lot of people. It's a gateway to things

It's a gateway to being a teacher, be a policeman. These degrees count for..

I think the change on the rules on being a policeman. But anyway, it has been the case. You need to have a degree to be a policeman

and a degree to be a teacher. Should that be changed? But if you want... I think policemen and things like that

and I think you can always have a degree apprenticeship. You can always go through that journey

But if you don't go to university, you could be a welder

at one of these big infrastructure projects like Hinkley Point C. you could be on more than an MP

you could be on 100 grand plus it's a compelling story and by the way a welder

you're never going to have your job taken away by AI are you? No, well maybe not

maybe not your job also, you're going to Falklands tie, why is that, are you quite big on

defence? Yes I am Chopper one of the best trips I went down to

the Falklands last year, it's a long old flight down there, you go from Bryce Norton you go down to Azzy Bay, it's Ascension Island

and down there, stayed on Mount Pleasance took in the history, you know it's

1982, 2nd of April's coming next week, the anniversary of the invasion

It's hugely important. I mean, a lot of the work I do around defence, as you say, I come from the city

It's saying there's nothing more ethical than financial services company investing in defence

You want to finance a drone interceptor company that's taking down these dreaded Shahid drones over the Gulf, threatening British lives in the Middle East

There's actually nothing more ethical than that. and I do have a bit of a bee in my bonnet about this, if I may

There are too many banks, too many high street lenders, they won't touch it. There are some that do

They just do. They do. They do. They do. It's actually not that. They feel as though there's a reputational risk

but there's nothing. And, you know, as I said, I was at the FCA, the regulator

I got them to publish a statement. The FCA said, hey, up, guys, there's nothing within FCA rules

that say you can't invest or finance or bank defence. But there was these weird reputational considerations

Some lenders do, but some won't touch it. You know, you wouldn't want a British high street bank

I don't know, financing chemical weapons or something. No. That does not happen

No. But actually, you know, who I bank with, you know, wouldn't you want your bank to be financing someone

who's saving lives by building counter drones? In terms of the defence budgets

we know that your government's going to get to 3.5% of GDP on defence by 2035, 2.5% by next April

but 3% isn't clear. when do you want to hit 3 By the end of the decade I think so I think we all recognise we need to move quicker Nothing set that firmer in my mind than going out to Estonia It called Obkabrit

That's the British contribution there. Tallinn, if you've been to Tallinn, it seems like a generic Eastern European city

As you move closer to the Russian border, suddenly the terrain feels like a World War II tank movie

waiting to happen. You start to feel that sense of urgency to some of this

I met some of the Estonian equivalent of MI5, MI6. Yes. The threat's coming in

Yeah. He's scared. It's on the continent all the way down, so as quickly as possible

not just on defence, but also like joint intelligence and everything else. And you mentioned the manosphere

You're concerned about that. That's Andrew Tate, is it? You're up the manosphere? It's bigger than that now

What is the manosphere? I'm not sure I've got... I mean, the manosphere, it's a load of toxic influencers, low-life losers

On the internet. On the internet. Do you know what? They're not usually on main street platforms anymore like YouTube

They're going into their own little pockets of other platforms have been kicked off

They're trying to peddle false hope. It's often like get-rich-quick scams linked with something to do

with how you might build your physique, which could be a toxic way of actually fueling what's called

body dysmorphia, things like this. So they're promoting these toxic lifestyles, misogynies at the heart of it

And a lot of young men, you know, times are challenging. We've got to give them hope for the future

Unfortunately, they've been drawn to that on their smartphones, the algorithms delivering that to them in their bedrooms

because, you know, they start to a young age, 13, 14, 15

They haven't got anything fun to do in real life. I've got to change that

So it's getting those role models, really, for young boys, isn't it

Being a great dad, which I'm sure you are, of course. It's a big deal for young dads

But equally, should the government do anything? Is that parental lead on this? Well, we need more Gareth Southgate, don't we, than Andrew Tates, who's a bottom feeder

Really? And actually, you know, some of these social media platforms, I have said we need a ban

You know, some under 14? Well, you know, we need to go platform by platform, don't we

Should we go banning YouTube for 15-year-olds? No, we shouldn't. But is it harm

Do you know how I saw a stat? 800,000 under fives, under fives, are using social media

Yeah. Scary. Online predators are on there. What are they taking in as a parent

So I'm 14th band on social media, is that where you are? As a sweeping thing not 14 I think we look at 16 But we do have to take it platform by platform And putting everything in the context of a ban isn always helpful You wouldn say oh let ban driving to 15

You'd say, hang on, you learn to drive at 17, don't you? Just flipping it as a positive because it's genuinely worked well down in Australia

Bookshops, paddle clubs, sporting groups, it's a fact they've become busier. So that's the sort of lifestyle maybe we can get for our young kids

And finally Charters You want to encourage drinking in football stadiums Well I

Want responsible drinking But back in 1985 You know Margaret Thatcher She was the fun snatcher

And ever since then you can't drink In view of the pitch

The Bradford City disaster Hillsborough, Ingers Heysel That led to the ban I think

All those people died at football grounds She tried to make it safer by removing

drinking in the stands, didn't they? So you drink behind the stands, can't you

The context has changed, hasn't it? It has changed. There's no standing now in the same way

Well, I was at Boreham Wood away and there's a little bar in the corner

and people were stood on picnic tables to try and peer over the railings

And then there was this guy, I think it was a Chesterfield game. Do you know who he did, Chopper? He hired a cherry picker

lifted himself up, yep, so he could watch it like that. It's become ridiculous. Can you imagine going to a gig without drinking

Can you imagine? You know, we can drink rugby, Wimbledon, cricket. All I'm thinking

Is it snobbish? Is it snobby again? Is it more snobbery? Back to where we started. Is it snobbery about football fans

Because why can rugby fans drink in the stands? Why can cricket fans drink in the stands

Exactly. Is that snobbery? It's discrimination against footy fans. Fact. Is that a class issue then

I think it is. I think it was at the time. And I think it's something that we should shake off now

So why is that happening? It's an old regulation from the 1980s

And, you know, in York, wouldn't it be nice to come and get a pint

maybe one or two pints? It's a half-time, brew York, fantastic brewery

Come up, Chopper. Hopefully, we're going to get promoted this season. What's it doing again

It's the National League. Don't get me started on something called the 3-Up Campaign

If you're a listener that you know what I'm on about, please get in touch because it's a big issue for a lot of clubs

So what is it? It's 2-Up. At the moment, it's only 2-Up. Outrageous

Fix the pyramid, guys. then you can start funneling investment down see where I'm coming from

Chip is in National League yeah this is going to be the year that we get promoted because we got absolutely

we are beaten by all of them in the playoffs should never have happened last year but we had over 100 points yeah but you you know back back to drinking people they going into games they actually pre a lot there no need for that you could just have a nice quiet enjoyable drink i was at rugby league

york nights amazing amazing club drinking responsibly and we're sensible folk in britain

you know we don't need to take it too far so trust no drinking in the family stands that sounds

don't go having 6% ABV beers if there's a real contentious derby game

maybe don't maybe don't do it there Is Lisa and Andy looking at this

I've had a few sort of informal chats people know this comes from me as a fan

first and foremost people have quickly worked out about me that I am genuinely a fan

I like going to away games and that's where you learn by the way I'll tell you what your problem is you follow a successful team

So I go to St Auburn City, which I think, I forget the actual league is in

but it's such a junior league that we can drink the side of the pit

Yes, well, some of the Noir League clubs don't want to get promoted because of it

Yes, well, we were told that we had a really good season, two seasons ago, I think it was, and had we been doing so well, we thought, hang on, hang on, we get promoted, we lose our bar

So we weren't sure whether we want to go up or not. Well, maybe you'll take me for a pint

Yeah, I will. Well, the beer is very good. Squirrel IPA from memory

Thank you for joining us, Luke Charters. Chopper, real pleasure. It's been a pleasure

You enjoyed it. Yeah, thank you. Thank you earlier to Steve Yem, also a Labour MP

Thank you for joining us wherever you are, listening or watching Chopper's political podcast

I tweet at Christopher Hope on X. What's your Twitter handle on Twitter, Luke

Luke JCR, massive on Twitter. I like to think I'm the biggest Labour MP on Twitter nowadays

Look at that. Taking some of the fight to reform. There we are. Check it out

It needs happening. Email me, Chopper, at GB News. what you think of what Luke Charters and Steve Yem had to say

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They'll help other people to find this show. Thanks to the great team of colleagues behind it

Mick Booker and Jeff Marsh back at Base Camp and the busy worker bees, Rebecca Nunes, of course

our wonderful producer here, and George McMillan, who edits it brilliantly. And most importantly of all, thank you again for listening

Until next time, cheerio