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Soccer in America is having a genuine cultural moment. Viewership is up, fan bases are growing

and Saturday match days have become a real event for households across the country. Today, we're digging into what makes

American soccer culture unique, how fans are building their own rituals around the game, and what the rise of the sport means

for the next generation of fans. Let's get it. Raheem, how has U.S. soccer fandom changed

in the last 15 years? Man, I'll just say accessibility. We're talking about MLS, MLS 1.0, MLS 2.0

there was barely sometimes less than 10 000 fans in a stadium now you're seeing what the increase of

people going to games with the likes of messi and other players coming to the league it just

exponentially just made the soccer experience in america much better and more people are inclined

to go to games as well as playing soccer from an early age tom what do you think for me it's about

the streets like genuinely in the time i've been here there's just been and versus no but like

there's been there's been so much more of like a groundswell around people just talking about the

game. People consume it in different ways. You can talk about video games. You can talk about literally like

going to a game. But for me, it's conversation. It's sort of

taking the piss out of each other. You know what I mean? Like that kind of thing. But like

banter is football and football is banter. And I think that's massive

But you think Americans can't say banter? I think Americans can't say banter, but I can say banter

Because you're a brish. Right. So you can find a different word, but yes. The street

thing is interesting because I remember I was like an early adopter of

soccer. How old were you? Like 22? 22, 23. When I was like 10

I started playing a little bit higher level of Traverse Soccer. I was never that good

But I was playing our local town, like Travel League, and I was getting really into it. We were playing FIFA with my brothers

and our group of family best friends. And I remember that when I tried to get

one of my friends who wasn't into soccer to watch a game with me, he was like, I don't want to do that

That's dumb. Soccer's boring. And that was like the prevailing attitude among other kids in like 7th grade at the time

I think that's when this was. And I got really lucky because I had slept over at my buddy's house

and I had convinced him to wake up at 7.30 on a Saturday in middle school

which was just nuts. Be like, bro, it was Man City, Tottenham at White Hart Lane

I was like, we have to do this. Trust me, soccer's not boring. It's not dumb

You're really going to like it. You're going to get really invested. And he was like, fine. So I got him to wake up

We probably played Call of Duty until like 4 in the morning. So we wake up at like 7.30, and City go and play at White Hart Lane

and I can't remember the exact scoreline, but I believe that Sergio Aguero scored a hat trick

and it was like 5-0 or 6-0. And it was awesome. The stadium was great

White Hart Lane was a classic. The crowd was fantastic. Am was a City fan, so I was like, we're rooting for the guys in the sky blue

They scored six goals, five goals, whatever it was. It was crazy. And at the end of the game, my buddy was like, oh, yeah, I see why you like this

Like, maybe soccer is cool. And I will say, very proud of him and his soccer fandom because 10 years later

he had flown over to Manchester to go to the Manchester Derby on the game day

where City could have clinched the Prem. They ended up losing. Paul Pogba scored a couple goals in the second half

It was bad. But the prevailing attitude at the time was that soccer was dumb

It was not popular, and it was not acceptable socially as a kid. Now you walk down the street in New York, and you will see kids wearing Inter-Miami messy kits

which I think is fantastic. So there's been a huge change in the culture of soccer being acceptable

For sure, bro. I'm just happy your boy didn't become a Spurs fan. Yeah, nah

I thought you were going to say, and now he's Shake Mansoor. Yeah, and that's how my buddy Shake Mansoor got interested in the beautiful game

U.S. sports culture is pretty unique because we have so many different sports, you know, whereas the U.K., you're primarily just a football fan

In the U.S. we have... Break it, right? Yeah, but not really. Yeah, not really. Yeah, come on

We're not really. But, like, in the U.S., you grew up a hockey fan, a basketball fan, American football, college sports, whatever

I think it's really unique that the U.S. has all of those different fan cultures, like, in the same people, right

Someone's a Knicks fan and a Yankees fan and whatever. How do you guys think that makes American sports culture unique and American soccer culture unique

I think soccer in America is very communal from home. Does that make sense

Like, you bring everyone together at, like, a house or a bar to watch a game

Like, that's how you get people into the game at first. Because if you don't care, you're not just going to, like, waste, quote-unquote

an hour and a half, two hours just watching a product like you don't care about

So I feel like with America, it's mass marketing, it's word of mouth

and then just gathering people in spaces so that they care. like your your joke about that person who i think i know right um like that that makes sense because

there are so many people get introduced to the game through that and i think that's what makes

it kind of special because if you experience something for the first time with your buddies

yeah then you're gonna like maybe stick with it a little bit more because that just becomes

something your friends do yeah yeah definitely i agree i think what makes american soccer so unique

like tom said is the fact that like a lot of people who aren't fans of the game they're not

going to wake up and just randomly watch 90 minutes like it's going to take someone to get

you indoctrinated as a sport whether that's a video game or a person taking to a bar but like

there's been so many people that i've come across that haven't been to like a 90 minute football

game and have an opinion on it and it's like bro if you go to a game and experience it it's

completely different than anything you've ever been to and i think once people see that and i

think that's why i'm so happy that the world cup is coming because in mls you might not get that

effect you know you go to an mls game you know it might be fun there's a game going on in the

background but like when you see the world cup coming and it's truly like intense competition

amongst the world's best someone's gonna watch that game who never watched football before and

be like wow like this is something i can't believe i just started watching right now yeah i think in america the internet and like social media has played such a massive role as

well because online communities in the u.s are massive maybe in a way that they aren't quite in

europe like in europe it a lot of individual like transfer influences that people follow In America it about Discord it about watch along Meme watch Meme pages It all of that That how you bring people together in a bit more

of a communal way. And I think a lot of people in Europe are very suspect of that. They're like

that's not the right way to consume the game. It's not proper. But Americans, if you're not there, that's

how you bring everyone in. It's online chat. I think that's interesting. I think the underrated part of American soccer

culture is that you're not born into fandom. We're seeing that a little bit more now as the sport has grown over the last 15

years. But like my parents didn't watch soccer. My parents are pretty big sports fans. Like my dad

loves basketball and football and whatever. But like I remember hearing about the 2010 World Cup

I was like nine at the time. So I wasn't old enough to like really like get into it yet. But

like my I remember my parents being like, oh, yeah, this is the final is who won whatever and being like, OK, we didn't watch it. It wasn't a like an appointment viewing thing in my household

For me to get interested in soccer, I had to play it and then get into FIFA and then be like, I really want to do this

There's like a you choose it as opposed to being thrown upon you

So I think that there's an interesting, unique level of passion there that other people outside the U.S. might not be able to relate to

But having not grown up on an American playground, did you not take the piss out of each other as well

Like if your team beats the other? Oh, in other sports, absolutely. Yeah, yeah

I mean, it's the same thing, right? in England that like, oh my god

if Liverpool lost on the weekend or weeknight in a Champions League game

I did not want to be in school the next day. Oh my god. You just

know you're going to get absolute pelters. And I imagine if the Yankees

lose to the Mets or something for you. I hear about it for sure. There's definitely some trash talk. It's interesting, I became

a Man City fan because all my friends were Man United fans. And I was like, this would be fun

if I get to argue. Yeah, yeah, that was it. And then they got way better, so lucky me

For someone who liked soccer so early, it was actually kind of hard because I had to kind of wait until I had to go to soccer practice to actually have conversations about it

I didn't talk about soccer when I was in elementary or middle school because no one cared or even watched

But as soon as I went to my practices with my club mates and they knew about it, then I was able to really express and be myself

But it's kind of interesting that you're kind of able to go to school and talk about the sport with other kids among your class, whereas no one in my grade ever really watched

We weren't able to do that. I was in elementary school or primary school, whatever

And so, you know, like, you get, like, I don't know, like an award or something

And I got, like, some sort of, like, star student award. Look at me. Wow. Nerd, bro

Yeah, the head teacher, principal, presented me with the award and started it with saying

I know it was a rough week for Liverpool. I'm like, that's it

I'm like, you really went to the Liverpool roast before you gave, like, an eight-year-old

like, a certificate. That's kind of fire. In front of his parents

That's culture, though. Your dad's like... No, my dad's laughing his ass off. Are you kidding

I'm dead, bro. That's funny because that's the type of thing that would happen in the U.S

when we were kids for other sports. I remember Patriots-Giants-Super Bowl, the first one

we had a couple of Patriots fans in our class who were big talking, Patriots are undefeated

like, look at us, we're fantastic. We're going to win. Giants are only 9-7. They suck, whatever. And then that Monday when we went back to school

after the game when the Giants had won, it was like, point and laugh. And our teacher was involved in that

And I think that's an underrated part of sports fandom where it's like everyone is talking about it and that didn't exist in the

U.S. for soccer but it's starting to now and that's really interesting and I think that's

going to help like the next generation of fans really develop. What about like the region to region changes in the U.S.? This is another thing that I don't think like you know the

meme the European mind cannot comprehend like our country is the size of Europe as a continent

so you have fans in Florida are very different than fans in New York are very different than

fans in L.A. How do you think fandom changes across the country? I think that's true in

a way but also like and this is like patriotic music plays but there are so many people from so

many different places who all converge on the soccer i remember i was talking to someone uh

an expansion usl franchise this team didn't exist yet but their fan supporters group was consisted

of handful of germans handful of brits handful of argentinians and they're just all they all just

love football yeah so they all started by playing pickup and then just like grilling meat like after

on a Friday night and then they just got into the team and now they're like a supporters group

for the club. So sure, like you can say LAFC probably have

a higher percentage of Latino fans. St. Louis, like historically with a lot of German people

right, move that, whatever, you can point to Little Pocket. But the beauty of it

is that people from all over the world engage with this thing and then they're

all brought together. And there's something quite nice about that. That is quite nice

I think different regions in the US definitely have like different soccer tastes

and different hotbeds. I mean like you see a fan base like LAFC and then you might go to FC Dallas game where it's not as you know

popular there's not that many fans but I think it all attributes also to like how important

developing culture is for these MLS clubs and what's what they value you know I'm saying like

at the end of the day LAFC values that they value you know having a star player they value having

that fan base FC Dallas values probably more having more young kids come in giving them minutes

and selling really good academy and having a really good academy so it's like everything is

dictated by how your club presents itself as and like the more you present yourself as a club that

values fans and values that audience then you're going to get the fan base you want and deserve but

i mean at the end of the day it really just depends on what your goals are as a club is

it's really funny though because you find people from like england everywhere when you go to

america i was like i was like at this game and there's this guy like um we're behind the home

team's goal and the goalie just completely the bed. Like he makes an awful mistake and like the home team

can see and this guy like stands up and puts every swear word under the sun But this guy and I was like this is it we made it right while the Americans were like good job man get them next time

Hey, man, you got it next time you got this How do you guys think the World Cup is gonna change soccer phantom in the US immediately

Like within like I know half an hour of the final finishing. I'm not sure it will yeah

But it's it's about what happens in the weeks and months after and it's about how does the momentum keep going

So what I'd like to see personally is, sure, like, I want the TV viewership numbers to be great, but they're always going to be great

Yeah, of course. What I want to see is more people in bars, more people going to games, more people, like, buying video games

You know, just, like, it's about, like, the momentum after it. I think of, like, the South Africa World Cup is a really good example of that

South Africa is a sport for, oh, sorry, a country for, like, a bit of everything, but it's also got cricket, rugby, whatever

but the sport grew immensely in that country because the domestic league took advantage of it

yeah shout out mamalody sundowns yeah um but like that's that's like the thing like that's how it

became big and that's what america needs to do and i think the fact that this is such a mass

marketing place is like you have like chains like walmart that i think of that can help provide

like the culture here like there's a genuine appeal to that yeah businesses get involved

brands get involved people get involved celebrities get involved in the game we're seeing that a lot more now too and dude action bronson was on a video with the mayor of new york talking about

soccer while eating indian right that would not have existed 10 years ago that's also awesome and

that's also awesome yeah but it's true honestly like i think it's that's that's exactly the type

of things that you want to see is kind of like a culture shift with these world cups man like you

know i'm saying once they come in that final whistle the final comes i don't know if every

person in america is going to become a soccer fan but one thing for sure is that like it's going to

have a large impacting influence on American culture, especially like with people coming from

different countries and they're watching the game in a certain way. And you're starting to see like

all these other people and all these other influences who are infiltrating the U.S.

getting the U.S. kind of culture of how to watch a soccer game. And like people are going to

remember these memories. And for Americans who finally have the ability to watch their favorite

like world-class players on TV finally play in America in a competitive tournament, which is

amongst like other nations you know we had we saw the club world cup but it's a little bit

different with clubs like when you're really specifically rooting on your country being in

your space and like come if you're an immigrant if you're from somewhere else you get to support

your country right in american soil or if you're american supporting on american soil like it just

brings a different type of emotion and i think it's gonna evoke people to be like yo like soccer

something we need to tap into in the u.s a bit more i think the other thing is that it's kind

of similar in the olympics in as the olympics in that if you find a country that you just sort of

end up rooting for you're not like no matter what like i mean look i'll always be an england

loyalist or what have you like i always want england to do as well as possible but like i don't

know like sometimes i think like south korea play really cool football yeah so i'll just get behind

them for the next month or so as well right like they're all these little things i think a lot about

um friends that i had in college who didn't watch soccer at all but then they'd always say that oh

yeah their dad just sat down and watched it the world cup because it just felt like such an event

It's a moment. One thing I will say, though, this summer is that it has to be a good tournament

Yeah. Especially in America, because there's like this exceptionalism around it. There's like the and we don't have to talk about the backdrop right at the moment

But like this feels big. I think the FIFA president called it like for one hundred and six, however many games

however many Super Bowls is what he described it as. And it's like if you're average person, you're like, wow, Super Bowl

Like, that's it. This has to be a good product to go along with it. Yeah, I had to put on the show

Yeah, no, you do. All right, guys, talking about watching soccer, what's your game day ritual

Panic. Panic? No, I'm an excited football watcher. I am admittedly a bit of a nervous one

I'm a big believer, you know, in the coffee and the bagel because I think a few bevies and I start to get a bit too emotional

You're like crying as Darwin Nunez equalizes it against Brighton last year

No, honestly, it's done me. It's done some strange things to me in the past

But I'm a big believer in the coffee and the bagel. Yeah. Me? Honestly, I have a new tradition now where I started going to the games at a bar called Fancy Free in Brooklyn

It's like an Arsenal bar. And that's the vibe, bro. Just being able to watch the game amongst friends and people who celebrate the same club as you

And especially in New York City, we talk about the game growing as much as it could be

I'm going to a bar and it's hundreds of people stocked up. You can't even find a seat

And it's like we're talking about soccer growing in America. Like in my own community, in my own neighborhood, I could go to my club local bar and have a good time

That is my favorite part of soccer fandom is that, like you guys mentioned, the U.S. is very communal

Yeah, you get food. You have some drinks. You have a watch party. Whether you're going somewhere or you're hosting it at your own house, apartment, whatever it is, like that communal experience is really fun

It makes everything better. Come on. Quick stop at Walmart. You get everything. You know, seriously

Yeah. A cup of tea and my boys at home are watching the game together. It's the best. What meal are you doing if it's like a Saturday afternoon

What are you making? Oh, a burger and fries. You know what I'm saying? Set that up really well

You feel me? Get my cheese. Get my burger. Get my ketchup. Keep it simple with some cooked onions

Oh, see, I like the cooked onion inclusion. It's a little bit of grilling. I feel like you can't go wrong with grilling

The Argentinian fans are kind of masters at the grill, and I feel like we could use a little bit of that in American soccer culture

as asado, like get some steaks, get some other meat. You know what I'm saying

Can I not interest you in a full English? Uh minus the beans probably I know I understand the beans Big beans coffee bolts anywhere in the hand It low good though No it is It low good though Because every other part of that people make fun of British food as we should

but every other part of that is like sauces, nothing wrong with that. Hash browns, people love that

Bacon. Bacon, people love that. See, you don't even like the thing that makes it good. You don't like tomatoes

It's not in full English. It's not hash browns. Well, it's a little crispy square potato, isn't it

It's a crispy square potato. Tell me what it is if it's not that. I don't know, feel like what you really need for a good soccer like match day watching experience you gotta have

your friends gotta have a communal experience somebody's gotta be on the grill or on the griddle if we're doing breakfast or in in the oven making some type of baked goods someone's

gotta be physically in the jake our buddy who's he like he's he's making it happen yeah the banana

bread whatever it is i feel like having food having your friends doing something together that is kind of the energy of what match day is all about and then for the world cup as well like

outside, big watch parties, getting people all in one same environment and a big fat screen

Yeah, man. You gotta get outside. You can't be an iPad baby during the World Cup. We must be outside

I have an interesting follow-up question to this. We talked about it a little bit

We talked about Argentina. We talked about the full English. What is the most iconic meal

in world soccer? Pork pie and a pint. Yeah. It's not great, but that's the English meal

Pork pie and a pint. Well, pork pie and four pints. You know what's starting to become a lot more common at soccer games in the UK

Like jerk chicken and rice and peas. People are learning the flavor. I've been seeing that

And listen, I'm petitioning it for this, but every major game needs that

Some rice and peas with some jerk chicken, some flavor at the match. You've got to get the condiments right

This is a very important thing. You have to have the right condiments for yourself. I do believe that probably the most iconic best soccer meal is a little Argentinian grill out

I think that that is something where U.S.-Argentina, we could grill together

You know what I mean? Like, when the U.S. plays Argentina in the World Cup final this summer, we're going to have the Tomahawks on one side

and they'll have whatever the really famous – picanha is Brazilian, but maybe they do that in Argentina too

Like, they have the Argentinian cut, and that'll be like – Sweet bread, isn't it? Huh? Sweet – oh, yeah, those are far

All right, so we talked about the food. What's your matchday fit? What are you wearing on a matchday

Well, I'm currently – this is what I'm working with at my absolute best

So I wouldn't expect anything genius. Nondescript. Jersey. Some sort of pants are usually

Pants, right? Usually wearing pants And a pair of trainers Fine, keep it tidy

I don't mind a scarf every now and then Scarf for big games

I'm a big game scarf believer But otherwise jersey I really like when my club comes out with collabs

With different designers, I think those are always fire And just a kit that's in style

You know what I'm saying? It could be a retro kit, it could be one currently but like usually I go for the collabs that stand out the most

Yeah, so it's a little something unique so you're not just wearing the same jacket or same shirt as everybody else

Yeah, you're kind of such a nerd though if you wear like the current year's like home jersey

It's like give me an away kit, you know? Yeah, it's a little something unique, a little something different

Yeah, need some flavor on it. We need that. All season long, Walmart has your matchday essentials covered

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How does soccer watching culture vary from the U.S. compared to other parts of the world

because, Tom, you're from other parts of the world. How is it different? As a proud other parts of the world-er

I think it's actually a bit friendlier in the U.S. It feels like a bit more of a genuine and supportive environment

which I sometimes like a bit more. I think in other parts of the world, there can be an element of toxicity to things

and there's definitely sometimes a little bit too much banter involved. But in America, it feels like a friendly

like, hey, guys, we're all in this together kind of thing. A lot of like American fans are starting to see that and come to the games and be like, okay, like we need to come up with better chants

We need to do better things. Because like, yo, that I believe we will win chant, bro

I! I believe! Nah, man. We need to do better than that

You know what's funny about that, though? People don't like it worldwide

But you've heard of it. You've heard of it. But you've heard of it. But you've heard of it. You've heard of it

Was it, you're the worst pirate I've ever heard or I've ever heard of while you've heard of me. Right

And that counts or something. I feel like a big part of the supporter culture that the U.S. has learned from other places is also TIFOs, too

They have, like, pyrotechnics. You got TIFOs. You got chants and drums and all this stuff. The U.S. TIFO culture has improved significantly over the past, like, 10 years

You're seeing some really world-class stuff from LAFC. Atlanta has a really good TIFO program from their supporters group

Yeah, these guys are doing a really good job. The ideal day for soccer is, like, a Saturday. What makes Saturday the best day to watch games

Well, I'm usually working because I have to watch them. A capital J journalist

No, but like everyone's kind of like let the week go. We've all washed it down a little bit

And there's a communal element to things. It's like, guys, it's Saturday afternoon

It's Saturday night. Like let's do something that brings us all together. Yeah

There's something like genuine and really sweet about that. So, yeah. I also think that with the calendar change that American leagues are undergoing

they will own Saturdays in the back half of the year. the fall they'll split with college football which you know will always split some people off but i

think that in the uh winter and spring months because the college football season is done in

like early january right you're gonna have from january through the rest of the year where saturday

is owned by soccer and i feel like that's gonna be really huge for the development of the game

so in terms of people going to games or people watching it like that's that is gonna be the day

for soccer yeah because otherwise people actually have to like go outside you know how terrifying

buying that. Yeah. Thank you, Walmart, for sponsoring today's episode of The Rondo

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