Up next in 10
Achim, from @InnerSpace_Explorers , joins me again to answer the questions that we missed on our recent livestream. Topics include what is the best route to get into CCR diving, what courses are pre-requisites , thoughts on the @DIVETALK Go, the CNS clock, bailout rebreathers and a lot more
*Achim & Dom Livestream*
CCR Bailout Livestream Part 1 - https://www.youtube.com/live/AqeLwKTMp78?si=qALVX8W2BR2o89Qf
*Highlights*
00:18 Big news - we're going to do it again!
01:55 What is the best route to get into CCR diving
06:13 How early can you start CCR diving
11:15 How good is the DiveTalk Go?
15:20 What are the good 40 metre deep wrecks out of Plymouth
18:29 Is it ok to decompress with 1.5 bar PO2?
22:24 When should you have a bailout Rebreather?
26:15 Wet connectors for attaching cylinders
28:12 MOD 1 to MOD 2 - how much experience is required?
31:12 What does narcosis feel like on a technical dive?
35:31 CNS Clock - is it a useful tool
35:39 Should I have bailed out sooner?
*Kit I Use*
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- Drysuit is an O-Three Ri200 - https://www.othree.co.uk/drysuit-range/ri-2-100-drysuit/
- CCR is an AP Diving Inspiration (XPD) - https://www.apdiving.com/
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Show More Show Less View Video Transcript
0:00
Hello everyone and welcome to the kind of followup that we promised from the
0:05
live stream that we we did a couple of weeks ago. We've had a look through all your questions and we are going to pick
0:12
up on the ones that we don't think we did. But before that, we've got some big news which is that we enjoyed it so much
0:19
we decided we're going to do it all over again. And this time we're going to we're not going to do it on my channel.
0:25
We're going to do it on Aken's channel. So M, you want to tell us the date and time and everything?
0:32
Yeah. Hello also from my side and um I I share this. It's I really enjoyed it
0:37
last time and uh so I think it's a great idea. Um and we will do this like on a monthly base and uh so back and forth.
0:45
So the next one as Don just said will be from my channel and uh then also again a follow-up video where we go through
0:52
questions that we couldn't answer during the live stream and then back and forth. So, um, we'll see how this established.
0:58
We had a lot of fun. We hope you had a good time as well. And,
1:03
um, exciting news. Yeah. So, so I think we said that the next one is going to be
1:08
on Sunday the 18th of May. So, it'll be a similar time to the one we did last time, which was uh depending on which
1:16
time you time zone you're in. It's going to be uh 7 o'clock in the UK, 8:00 in
1:22
Germany, and whatever time that is for the rest of the world, guys. But we'll put it online and we'll give you loads
1:28
of notice so you can obviously get it in your calendars and everything. I think we had quite a few people from
1:34
the US last time, so I think the timing is pretty good. So, yeah. Um, and if people have recommendations or whatever,
1:40
I mean, uh, we're always open to that and nevertheless, uh, the I mean, you can always re-watch the live stream and
1:46
see all the chats and everything. So, um, I think that's the best solution. Yeah, for certain. Okay. So, so picking
1:53
up, uh, the first of the questions I don't think we answered. So there there was a couple of ones about a similar
1:58
sort of topic which was the kind of best way for somebody who is a recreational diver to go onto CCR, whether they need
2:05
to do uh some technical courses first and and what technical courses they may be and how far down that route they they
2:13
should progress. So, um I guess let's let's get your thoughts and
2:19
Well, um generally speaking, I'm not a big fan
2:24
of people because that was a thing for a while. I'm not a big fan of people starting to dive on
2:30
rebreathers, but I on the other hand don't think that you necessarily have to connect the
2:36
rebreather to technical diving. So, you may have seen that at the moment I'm super active with the dive talk go which
2:42
probably is a great example for that. We've seen so many recreational divers and I'm talking about people with 50 to
2:50
100 dives um let's say advanced or rescue doesn't matter which organization
2:56
and they have a blast diving this unit because it's really really simple and it's a great intro to rebreather diving
3:02
and then you can actually and it doesn't it's it's not about the go the go is just a a good example now for me because
3:08
currently that's what I'm doing a lot um and so I see first time how people react
3:14
and how they can handle it and it's not like super complicated or whatever and you can continue basically in your
3:21
diving and grow with the rebreather which I think is way better than doing a
3:26
lot of open circuit technical classes and then switch to the rebreather and like redo your technical training on the
3:32
rebreather. So growing with the rebreather into technical diving and then progressing in my opinion is the
3:38
better the better way of doing it. Yeah. And you know, I'd absolutely I'd absolutely agree with that. I think
3:45
there's a kind of historically there's a belief you've got to be this super ninja diver before you go on to CCR. I think
3:51
all the evidence we've seen is actually in many respects that that's maybe not such good because because you've got all
3:57
these kind of, you know, habits and strategies and techniques built into built into your head. And actually what
4:04
we know when you go into a CCR, it's just a whole different ball game, isn't it? things that you you you think are
4:09
going to work, you know, don't work. And obviously with buoyancy is the the best example, isn't it? You can't you just
4:15
can't control your buoyancy with your breathing. So, um and lots of really experienced guys find that quite
4:21
frustrating in my experience. Yeah. Because you have to start breaking down muscle memory that you built over
4:27
years. Um that's the same thing like people coming into a class of mine and say, I was practicing for a year to be
4:33
ready for the class and I'm like, oh god. I prefer people not prepared because it's a class, it's not a test.
4:39
So don't try to train something where you're not 100% sure if it's correct. And with the rebreather, it's the same
4:45
thing as you mentioned. I mean, then you have all these habits. So growing with the with the rebreather is a way
4:51
smoother way of getting into that. Um and it also I mean just because you're a
4:57
very experienced open circuit technical diver um then suddenly I mean I don't
5:03
know how to explain it correctly in English but you are diving at a high
5:08
level open circuit and you switch to the rebreather that would mean you have to level down and start again to build up
5:15
confidence and and uh and muscle memory and getting used to it and also becoming safe on that unit.
5:24
But probably a lot of people think like well I am already on this level so I switch on the rebreather and then way
5:30
too fast progress to that level again because now I wanted the rebreather for dives that basically open circuit are
5:37
probably not really doable anymore. So when you start at that level then when
5:43
you reach the level that I was talking before this high level uh you have way more practice confidence and and
5:50
experience on the rebreather which makes you a way safer rebreather diver in my opinion. Yeah. No absolutely and I'm I'm
5:56
I'm completely with you there. So I guess um so we're both of the opinion that that if you're going to go down on
6:03
rebreather that it makes sense to to get on one I guess relatively early. The
6:08
question I I think probably a lot of people would would ask is what does that early what does early look like? You
6:15
know, what sort of qualifications, how many dives, you know, any, you know, uh
6:20
things that you need to have done, you know. So, um I go back to, you know, uh you probably know my main agency's
6:27
British Aqua Club. That's all my qualifications, all my instructor qualifications, everything. Now, we um
6:33
we don't have a no decompression rebreather course. We only have a
6:38
decompression rebreather course. So the you know in in the ISO standards and everything are kind of a level two
6:44
course but we would say that you need to be a sports diver which you can get with
6:49
with a relatively small number of dives. So maybe 10 15 dives and you need to
6:54
have um done an accelerated decompression course. So an 80 or 100% course in order
7:02
to get on it. So realistically, somebody to do those is probably talking, you know, 50 dives, I guess. Um, now I I
7:11
don't know what you think, you know, would you say that's a reasonable starting point or would you would you would you modify that?
7:18
I mean, the you have divers and divers. I mean, I think it's a huge difference.
7:24
Somebody and the problem is you can say that without uh getting people angry on
7:29
you. I mean, somebody that has 50 dives, let's say, on the Florida Keys in 8 to
7:36
15 m of water versus somebody who has 50 dives in a in a in a mountain lake in
7:42
Germany with 2 meters visibility in four degrees are two very different divers with a very different skill set. So, in
7:49
my opinion, it's it's not that much about the amount of dives. It's more how
7:55
comfortable in the in the how comfortable you are in the water. So, um
8:01
buoyancy, trim, equipment handling should be second nature. It's not when
8:07
you still have to think which button to press. Um you should not progress. You
8:12
know what I mean? You shouldn't try to dance before you learn how to walk. If that makes sense. So, generally, I'm
8:18
sorry if sometimes my English is a little bit it's just not my first language. So, but I hope that makes
8:24
sense what I'm saying. And um I think you you need a you need a
8:32
instructor, an honest instructor that does not only want to sell you a class no matter what, but who also is is
8:39
honest enough to tell you, hey, I would love to sell you this class and the rebreather, but do another 20, 30 dives,
8:46
fix this and fix this. Um, or you find somebody like I think we talked about
8:51
that before, find a a good mentor, somebody you trust that has a lot of experience and takes you under his
8:57
wings. Um, that's probably the best way of starting. So, slowly progressing into
9:03
it and uh somebody honest, somebody who really cares about you telling you like,
9:08
okay, now you're ready. Yeah. No, it's a really good point. A few good points you made there. I think the one about
9:14
environments and not all dives being equal, I think is is a really good one. And the fact not all divers are equal as
9:20
well, aren't they? So you you you need to, you know, you need to be honest. The indivi people need to be honest with
9:26
themselves about what their actual competence is, don't they? And and as you say, they need to find an instructor
9:31
who's willing to give them honest feedback and isn't just there trying to get certifications or make money or, you
9:37
know, those kind of things as well, isn't it? So there's a whole load of different factors factors that that kind
9:43
of come into play. So maybe I was being a bit simplistic in my answer and yours was far more nuanced which I think is
9:49
probably appropriate. Yeah. I I just remember we had this t-shirt was back in the day and there
9:56
you can actually it was fish, frog, goat. So you have diver categories,
10:01
right? I mean you have these naturals that are just born for diving and uh
10:06
that also goes like comfort in the water. There's a video that I did a while ago. Um, and you have people that
10:13
are somewhat aquatic, so they can adjust to it and they become good divers. And then you have those who just shouldn't
10:19
be underwater. And that's in my opinion the main issue with modern dive education. This like everybody can and
10:25
should dive as long as he has a pulse and a credit card. And especially when it comes to rebreather technical stuff,
10:33
that's not the case. I mean somebody getting into trouble in 10 meters of water somewhere on a reef is bad enough
10:38
but I mean on a rebreather in technical stuff usually the outcome is not as
10:43
great. So um I really appreciate everybody who has the guts to say like
10:48
no this is not for me because that's safer for him and the people that are probably in the water with that person.
10:54
Yeah know okay some some really some really good points I guess. So the people several people asked variance on
11:00
that question and I'm not sure we've given you an exact answer but hopefully we've given you some things to think
11:05
about on that one. So the next question um is uh from a guy called Drake Slussle
11:13
um who is asking about the dive talk go. Now I I don't really know anything at all about it so this is this is
11:19
definitely for for you. It's uh it's it's what your opinion is on it. Now, I think you've posted a video, several
11:25
videos on what your opinion of the dive talk go is, and clearly you used it on as a primary rebreather on that monster
11:31
dive you just did. So, I guess I guess you're a bit of a fan. Yeah.
11:38
So, I don't know. Do you want to add any more to it than that? Do do you want to say do you want to explain, you know, maybe I know you've done it already, but
11:44
but it might just be worth making some of the points you think are particularly good about it. Yeah. Um, so in in short,
11:51
um, when when I heard about it and I I the the first positive thing for me was
11:58
that it was from Mike Young because I love Mike Young and every rebreather he built. He's a genius and I really admire
12:05
his work. So um, then I saw it, I saw pictures, I saw a little bit of marketing and I was
12:12
like just another attempt to make the recreational rebreather. So, I was very
12:18
um very cautious and then I went to Florida and did the first dive and fell in love because it's breathing super
12:25
super nice and what I like is the fact that you can just attach it on every possible
12:31
configuration and um I mean everybody that goes first time
12:38
on a full CCR like a Inspiration or a JJ or you name it, doesn't matter. It's a
12:44
new world. you you said it before. It's a just different skills, buoyancy doesn't work, etc. It's always like I
12:51
need to learn how to fly again, right? And um with the goal I this this feeling
12:57
and also the feedback that I get from students and people that do tryyouts, it's like you clip this thing and you
13:02
dive it. It's just super super simple, lightweight, easy to travel with. And then I realized, okay, this thing has
13:08
capabilities. And in fact, the first real dive that we did with it in Florida was a three-hour cave cave DPV dive. And
13:16
it was I mean, obviously the people in the water were some sort of experienced, but um it just it was so easy to adapt
13:25
to it. And then yeah, obviously also to prove a little bit that this is a serious rebreather. I used it on the 170
13:32
m dive obviously a little bit with modifications regarding intermediate pressure, etc. didn't want to go too
13:37
much into that in the video because I don't want anybody to follow this advice and then run into trouble and like but
13:43
aim said um but uh yeah very very capable and um what I like most on it is
13:50
you can how should I explain that and keep it short has an oxygen rebreather class
13:57
that's something that I really love to do and but we always had the issue that we could we had a hard time selling
14:04
people legally available oxygen rebreathers. There was an Italian brand for a while.
14:10
They are not available anymore and they were always around three grand and it's just an oxygen rebreather. So now you
14:16
can buy the go in its oxygen oxygen only version for I think less than three
14:22
grand and then especially like young people. I had a couple of people from university that were into biology etc.
14:29
And they were always like three grand is a lot of money for a rebreather that limits you to 6 mters and you cannot
14:35
upgrade it. And now that you have this possibility, you buy the oxygen only version. You dive it for a while, you
14:41
save some money, you upgrade it to a full CCR, you buy the computer in top, and then a couple of years later, you
14:47
buy the extension ring and you can make it a try mix rebreather. So you can grow with that rebreather into more advanced
14:53
diving and you don't have to switch units. And that in my opinion is a huge benefit as well. But I don't want to
14:59
make this a go advertising video. So if you have questions um for the go, you can always contact me directly and I'm
15:05
happy to answer your questions. Yeah, it came up came up in the chat. So you know, somebody wanted that question
15:11
answered. So it's absolutely fantastic. I'm going to pick up the next one which is one that I don't think you have an opinion on. So, um I'm I'm going to pick
15:18
up this one which is one of the one of the guys in the chat asked me about Plymouth uh and some of the 40 m wrecks
15:26
or wrecks I think up to 40 m that uh intact and interesting. Well, um for me
15:33
the best wreck in Plymouth um in that kind of range is wreck called the SS main which is um probably I don't know
15:41
12 miles east of here. It's the bottom of it is in about 35 m. The top of it is
15:48
probably the top of the engine is probably 20 something. So, you know, you can do it as a kind of multi-level dive.
15:53
You can do it on a single cylinder if that's what you want. Obviously, ideal for a for a uh an air dilluent
15:59
rebreather. And it is it is a lovely lovely dive. The kind of only issue with it is it is quite
16:05
tid. But that is quite good as well because it it does make sure it's swept. So, it's quite it's quite clean and uh
16:11
it's it's a lovely it's a lovely dive. There's there's several other ones as well. So the there's a new one called
16:17
the Marie which was only found sort of three years ago which is a quite an old 19th century steamer with with um a
16:26
two-cylinder engine which which are quite old and the engine's lovely. It's got loads of gauges and stuff on it so
16:32
you can swim around it. Once again it's maybe 41 42 meters so maybe a bit deeper
16:37
than perhaps you might have asked but is really nice. And then obviously the two really classic Plymouth Wrecks and if
16:43
you haven't done them, every everybody should do them. The first one is the James Eaggan Lane, which is a Liberty
16:49
ship sunk in 1945. In fact, we've just had the 80th anniversary of the sinking.
16:54
It's in two bits and it is a a lovely um you can swim down into the into the
17:02
holes, you can swim through it. It is falling apart now, but it is uh still a gorgeous gorgeous dive. Liberty ships
17:08
clearly very big, very big ships. And the last one I just want to flag up is Real Basilla, which is 25ish to the
17:14
seabed, which is a the last frigot to be built in Plymouth, sunk in 2002 or 2003
17:22
for diving. So it's uh you know, it's pretty much completely intact. And once
17:27
again, there are very few places, especially in the UK, where you can dive those kind of things. So, if you're thinking of Plymouth, I would highlight
17:34
uh I think those four wrecks in particular. Um I don't know uh Akim if
17:40
you if you've dived any of those or you've heard of them. No, no, but it's it's it's on my list.
17:45
I'm going to visit you and we dive together. Yeah, mate. That would be abs that would be absolutely awesome. In
17:51
fact, just before we started this uh this stream, we were chatting about a lake in Germany that's full of planes as
17:56
well. And I I have to say the more I think about it, even though it's freezing cold, I might have to get my ass to Germany as well. So, uh, hey,
18:04
maybe maybe maybe we'll do, you know, you come here and I'll go there. So,
18:09
we'll uh door is wide open. It would be awesome to have you here. It's uh Yeah, I just checked it out. It's at least a
18:15
16 hour drive. Yeah, I probably wouldn't do it for a single day, I reckon. Um,
18:23
so so yeah, that's that's great. So the next question is definitely uh for you
18:29
which is um which is a question actually about the kiss and set point for decco
18:35
you know do you use 1.5 and and how do you deal with O2 exposure for for
18:40
decoing high set points and I guess it's interesting the whole CNS clock thing
18:46
I've just recently done a video on it not prompted by this question I'm gonna do it anyway but it obviously be really
18:51
interesting to get your views on CNS and O2 exposure Yeah. Um I saw your video and I think we
18:59
we had a quick WhatsApp because I said that would be an awesome topic for us to talk about. Um the general idea of CNS
19:06
clock etc. So I don't want to go too deep into that. Um and this is basically
19:13
not a kiss specific um question. I mean it doesn't matter if you if you run an
19:18
electronic or an MCCR. I mean there's different strategies out there. I mean from people that say I run 1.3 for
19:25
example just the entire dive um especially if it's not long deco and
19:30
then uh like uh people that say okay I do 1.3 on the bottom and then switch to
19:35
1.5 during decompression. I think that's pretty close to what you do if I remember correct. Yeah. Um so there is
19:43
an um I for example when I do deep dives I actually lower my P2 dramatically on
19:48
the bottom. So I usually dive for 08 and then uh raise it in steps um because I
19:55
personally think the biggest risk is to get a CNS hit at depth because that's
20:00
something you're not going to survive. And so the idea is a little bit to save CNS on the bottom especially and that
20:07
would now require actually a bit more if you and that's what I'm what I'm doing not believing in the classical way of
20:14
CNS calculation like that starts at 0.5 um it basically can't then a lot of
20:21
dives we do would not be possible uh or would we we would all be superhumans
20:26
which we are not I guess at least I'm not and um so I usually
20:33
gradually there is a a paper which is called um is CCR deco workshop. I'll
20:39
actually send one to you because I want you to to have a look at it and so maybe if we want to do a video about it uh so
20:46
you know a little bit how we look at it and that explains it. So it it has a lot
20:51
of open circuit thinking in it. Um and actually we gradually increase the P2
20:57
the uh in as we go up in the water column. So I would start with let's say 0.8 and then I go up and at some point I
21:04
switch to 1.1 1.2 1.3 and then in the end I'm at 1.5 as well. Gives a little
21:10
bit longer deco. Uh but from my personal experience and the way I'm diving it I
21:15
always had great results with it. I never ran into any issue. Um I had some OTU issues in the past uh due to very
21:24
long oxygen exposure exposures diving oxygen rebreathers repetitively for multiple days and so um yeah but it's
21:33
very different approaches so there's not not the answer to that um and um
21:40
yeah different people going different ways and coming out with great results right yeah let's have a CNS chat we
21:47
should definitely we'll do that we We we'll schedule that in we'll schedule that in for one of our one of our chats and we'll kind of talk about our
21:53
different different approaches to it because I think it is it is really interesting and you know there's a lot of people out there I think who are you
22:01
know with lots of different views and different strategies and everything. So so we'll we can talk about ours which is which is fantastic.
22:07
Yeah, let's do that. Would be super interesting and I'll I'll send you this um this document up front so to maybe uh
22:13
you know a little bit more what what my thinking on it is. Yeah, fantastic. That would be that would be awesome. So So
22:19
the next question is um and we kind of touched on it a little bit I think during the live stream is when would we
22:25
consider having a bailout rebreather? Um and I mean I think
22:31
you you know I think you you basically pretty much do it most of the the kind
22:36
of deeper stuff that you've got. Is that correct? Yeah.
22:41
Um, for me it I it definitely I definitely took one
22:47
now for this really deep dive because I figured out the amount of open circuit bailout is not divable. So for this 170
22:53
meter dive that I recently did, I figured out I need at least eight stages 80 cubic feet as open circuit bailout
23:01
which yeah I mean not really doable. And so I figured, okay, if I take the the
23:07
bailout rebreather, that streamlines my setup extremely, which it did.
23:13
Um, but it also puts a lot of task load and and additional problems um on the
23:19
plate. So I think you really have to balance um advantages versus disadvantages. And
23:27
there is a few. So on my channel crossing for example, I also did a double rebreather but uh two on the back
23:33
and I hated it uh completely um for a couple of reasons.
23:39
So yeah to answer the question I would do it in the moment where my open
23:46
circuit bailout becomes a burden. Yeah. Yeah. And and interestingly enough, I
23:53
would I mean I don't have a second uh or I don't have a rebreather that I could use as a bailout rebreather. So um and
24:00
I the context in which I do most of my deep diving I always feel that there is
24:06
an adequate open circuit bailout option to me which is team gas and gas coming from the from the top. So so therefore I
24:13
personally don't feel the need to need to do that. But if I was to go into a uh
24:19
different situation, let's say for instance, I came out to uh to visit you and we went off to dive that lake full
24:25
of planes, which I think you said are very deep and there isn't going to be a boat there. There isn't going to be uh
24:31
surface cover there. So my bailout strategy that I normally use is not
24:36
going to be not going to be appropriate. So I guess for me, that's the time I need to consider whether I need to be
24:41
taking a bailout rebre either. and and obviously before that there's a whole load of stuff that needs to happen,
24:47
isn't there, in terms of getting myself familiar with it and um you know practicing with it and training with it
24:52
and all those kind of stuff. So it's actually not quite as simple I think as just strapping a bailout rebreather onto
24:58
myself. It's um you know there's a whole load of work up um before before that happens. So I guess once again we've not
25:06
really answered the question, have we? Other than to say it kind of you need to judge each case on its merits.
25:13
it it yeah the the answer is it depends I mean uh what you just said team bailout I mean I do most of my deep
25:20
stuff alone so there is no no team bailout so I have to I'm always have to
25:25
rely on myself and what I can carry and um or what I can stage somewhere
25:31
whatever so I mean if it's for and then it really depends on the environment I mean you're diving deep in a cave uh
25:37
where you have to come back through that tunnel I mean you can always stage cylinders um which in the
25:43
ocean pro probably not the smartest idea if you cannot assure that you're coming back on that same line on that same line
25:50
and then uh also I mean the environment can change so yeah there is definitely
25:56
not an ultimate question to it but um yeah if if
26:01
there is no other open circuit option uh for you or the open
26:07
circuit option becomes undable then that's probably the next best Yeah. So, okay. So, there we go. We've
26:15
had a bit of a chat about that. The next one is about wet connectors. Um, and,
26:20
uh, particularly mentioned suage lock ones, but obviously that's not the only option, is it? The,
26:26
um, presumably you have the ability to kind of, uh, use different different
26:32
cylinders of gas through your rebreather. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I'm sure I'm sure we
26:38
all do. My um all my cylinders have got um I've got wet connectors on so I can I
26:43
can put them on and and you know attach them to mavs and and all that kind of stuff and I guess so but what was the
26:49
what was the exact question what we use or what we think about it or do we have them?
26:56
Oh okay. Yeah. Yeah. Of course. Of course. I mean every inflator hose is a is a is a vet connection and you can
27:02
take it off and put it back on, right? Um, most of them are not 100% dry, which
27:08
is normally not a big issue. Uh, also the switch locks not completely dry. It always gives you a drop of water when
27:13
you connect them. Uh, what I found with the sweat locks is that if you're diving cave and there are small gravel and you
27:19
get one of these in there, they can actually be a real pain because you cannot connect them then and it takes
27:25
you a while to figure out, oh, there's a little stone in it. Um but generally
27:30
yeah I mean if you if you dive free breathers with multiple gases I mean you have to have what what else do you want
27:35
to do? Yeah no absolutely I think you know pretty much every uh you know mod two and beyond courses
27:42
there's quite a lot of that sort of stuff goes on isn't there you know whether you using it to you know either
27:48
you know for the oxygen in the gas or whether you're using it to replace empty dilluent or whether you're you know
27:54
wanting to use it as semi-cloed mode or something like that. There's there's loads of different things, but the starting point for all this sort of
28:00
stuff is you need to be able to connect to it.
28:05
Yeah. Okay. Uh, next one is um Oh, it's kind of linked in with with what we've
28:12
talked about already, but but it is a slightly different question. So, Richard Tessle said, "How much experience do we
28:18
think is required to move from mod one to mod two?" And I guess that's probably similar to the thing that we've we we've
28:24
said earlier, which is not all Model One divers are equal, are they? Not all not all not all locations are equal. And
28:30
there's there's a certain amount of you need to individuals need to be ready.
28:37
Yeah. I mean, obviously, um, as an agency, you have to put something out like that many hours, that many dives,
28:43
whatever. Um, but as you just said, it really depends on where you do these dives and and how you do them. Um so
28:50
when I when I do uh courses like that I always require check dive. I want to see that person in the water and see what we
28:57
talk about. So just based on like ah it took 30 minutes I mean you can take 30
29:02
minutes in a pool just laying on the bottom theoretically. So yeah, um yeah,
29:08
you should you should have used these hours to really build up your skills and get comfortable with the unit before you
29:15
do the next step because if you're not not really comfortable and you um you
29:21
try to make that next step um that can actually become a a trap basically.
29:27
Yeah, I mean my experience of teaching mod 2 courses is um that the you're
29:33
absolutely right which is that the first dive is pretty much a revision of everything they learned on the mod one
29:38
or or not a not a revision a kind of a confirmation that they're capable of doing it. Um, and yeah, and they they
29:46
can do it in a, you know, relatively comfortably because the other skills and stuff in the mod 2 course put a high
29:53
level of task loading on on divers and if they haven't got the basics sorted, then they're just going to they're going
29:59
to struggle. They're going to feel bad about themselves. They're going to get frustrated and clearly that's not good
30:04
for anybody, is it? Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. Okay.
30:09
Absolutely. So um we do um I have something that's called a breakdown dive in is uh where you basically um yeah see
30:19
how that person reacts to issues in the water um like real real problems that
30:28
you throw onto them and um but yeah you
30:33
you have to test it out. I think uh it doesn't make any sense to rely on on
30:38
written information here. Yeah, I think the the ISO standard for mod 2 I think
30:44
says something like 50 dives or 50 hours something something alike along those kind of lines as the minimum level which
30:51
which I guess you know is is probably about right for most people most of the
30:56
time but but obviously there are always outliers and um you know so you know you
31:03
can't take that as a given. Yeah, totally agree.
31:09
Right. Okay. So, the next one is uh is is a is a question really I think
31:14
um for probably somebody who's not really dived very much try and and the
31:20
question is what does narcosis at the maximum how does narcosis at the bottom
31:25
of a recreational dive which I guess means it's kind of like 40 meter air dive. How does that compare to the
31:32
narcosis you get when you're on depth on on tryix? And um I mean it's it I guess
31:39
it's a really interesting question and and the thing that I guess everybody needs to know is that there's a couple
31:45
of different things isn't there where a couple of different factors behind the choosing of a dilluent for a CCR a deep
31:52
CCR dive. One of them is the um is the is the uh you know equivalent air depth
31:58
or equivalent narcotic depth whichever one you use and the other one is the work of breathing and and I guess or gas
32:04
density these days and and and the thing that I've always taught is that if you are within your gas density
32:11
um uh your recommendations then you are going to be within your um equivalent narcotic depth and not only that you the
32:19
deeper you go the better the equivalent narcotic depth get gets. So by the time you get to 100 meters, if you're using a
32:26
gas that is good for gas density, your equivalent narcotic depth is less than 20 m.
32:32
So you're in a really good place really. So I think it's it's one of the things that people don't necessarily expect
32:38
when they when they ask questions such as that. Yeah, honestly I thought I really don't
32:43
get the question completely. Um so yeah, B, I agree with what you said. I mean
32:50
the deeper you go the less narcosis you want to have because the the task loading and the time pressure gets
32:56
bigger and bigger. So um if I go deeper than 100 then I use Helios on the
33:01
rebreather. Um and um yeah I I mean 40 m on air can be I
33:09
mean if it's the wrong environment and uh um the person has a couple of
33:15
preconditions like not enough sleep uh stuff like that probably a little bit of anxiety because deep dark dangerous
33:22
something like that uh can be actually quite uh quite scary and pretty intense. So, um, if you if you go deeper and into
33:30
a more challenging dive, you definitely don't want to have that. Yeah. And also, I think that the things that, um, that
33:37
the process for choosing a dilluance for a deeper dive means that
33:42
you're automatically going to get a really good equivalent narcotic depth. Probably the only case where that where
33:49
that the only situation that might not be the case is if you are open circuit and you have um you have financial
33:56
considerations which drive you to putting less helium in your in your cylinders. Those financial
34:01
considerations are much much different for closed circuit and and and therefore
34:07
there should be no reason at all why why you haven't got you know absolutely fabulous equivalent narcotic depths on
34:13
on deep CCR dives. Yeah. And I mean in all honesty the
34:19
times where people dove deep on the wrong gas with the excuse of uh stuff was not available
34:27
or too expensive. I remember always on the last dive this uh the father and son
34:34
team that died on the submarine there diving air with the excuse of no money
34:40
for helium. Well then don't dive it. Um, and I mean open circuit dryix is more or
34:45
less dead anyway. I mean if you look at today's helium prices, I don't know what you guys pay in in Great Britain. I mean
34:50
here it's ridiculous expensive. Um, so if I if I remember times where we filled
34:57
up like a double 20 with 1560 or something like that and a couple of bottom stages to dive on the on the
35:04
Haven or stuff like that. I mean I I can dive probably for a year on
35:09
my rebreather. put it in there in one dive. Let's not
35:15
do um Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. It's um it's
35:22
the cost of it is just utterly prohibitive, isn't it? So, um right,
35:27
there's only two more questions. I think we've kind of covered them already. The first one is the viewer on the CNS clock, which we've said we're going to
35:33
do a separate separate chat about. Yeah. And um the other one is from Huckleberry
35:38
Moon, and it's it's directed at me. I think he's watched my rebreather the bailout video and he said um you know
35:44
with the benefit of hindsight do I think I should have bailed out sooner. Um and
35:50
yeah I mean yeah I guess I guess I probably knowing what I know now I would have
35:56
bailed out a bit sooner but you know I I'm still relatively happy with with the
36:03
fact that I I I you know had a reasonable process. I think one of the things perhaps people don't realize is
36:08
at the beginning of my video I show the scrubber absolutely completely full of water. Now what what people need to
36:14
realize is it wasn't like that when I bailed out because that is after doing an hour or an hour and a half of of de
36:20
open circuit decompression. When I bailed out it would have been I don't know 10% full or 20% full or something
36:28
like that. So there was a much much smaller amount of water in there than than you see at the end. So, um, I could
36:35
still breathe through it. I was aware of CO2. I was obviously aware that I didn't want liquid in my mouth. Um, all those
36:42
kind of things. And I was I was kind of okay. But yeah, you know, I guess um, you know, benefit pine, I probably
36:49
should have bailed out a bit sooner. But, um, the the important thing though, of course, is that I'm here to talk about
36:55
it. And the the the the proof of any emergency procedure is I'm did I
37:02
survive? Am I okay? Uh, yes, I am. So, um, there you go. I don't know. I
37:07
remember that video. I enjoyed it a lot. It was really I mean, for somebody who
37:12
knows about this and and and being a rebreather diver himself, it was just funny to watch and see you trying to
37:19
figure it out. I was like, and obviously I've been in similar situations. So, you're like, something's
37:25
wrong here. But it would be so good to know what it is. And you all, I mean, yeah, it was funny to watch. And as you
37:32
say, I mean, it worked perfectly and you're here and you're safe and that's the most important thing. Yeah. Yeah.
37:37
For certain. For certain. So, um, so there we go. Well, that that brings to the end all the questions that we've got
37:44
unless um there's anything else that we want to we want to flag up.
37:50
No, I think we covered a lot of uh of stuff. Um, and uh, what I would like to
37:56
add is that uh, if you're watching this and uh, you enjoy this as much as we do
38:01
and you have topics that you think we should cover discussing, then please drop us a message um, and uh, let us
38:09
know because we definitely look for for topics um, that that we can discuss. So
38:14
the CNS thing is definitely uh something that uh we should do and I think we already uh had a little bit of a list
38:21
through WhatsApp where we started to ping pong back and forth a couple of topics and ideas. So I'm really looking
38:26
forward to this. It's a lot of fun. I really enjoy this. Yeah. Know it's it's been I've I've really enjoyed I've been
38:32
really enjoyed our chat as well. For those people who who aren't who who um
38:38
well nobody else will know, but we we we chatted for about 20 minutes before we even kicked this off as well, didn't we? We covered all sorts of different topics
38:44
and uh what we're going to I think try and do in the future is is is add a bit of that just general chat because it
38:49
does cover it does cover some interesting things. So we're going to do that as well. So um you know anyway but
38:55
the point about telling us what you'd like to talk us to talk about is a really good point and we hope everyone will do that and all the usual stuff as
39:01
well. You know hitting the like button and you know all that kind of stuff. So that will be that will be awesome as
39:06
well. But other than that, I think we're going to draw this to a close and say thank
39:13
you very much. Basically, I your your video was just hanging a little bit, so I really didn't get the last sentence,
39:18
but uh we just before we started recording this actually, we had a pretty
39:23
cool jet and we said, "Ah, we should have recorded this." So maybe that's something that we we could do in the
39:29
future as well. So we both uh have quite a few interesting wreck dives and experiences and uh stuff that we found
39:36
and experienced. So maybe we going to do this in the future as well. So just record a little bit of of diver chat and
39:43
uh see how you guys like this. Yeah, absolutely. Diver diver stories um you
39:49
know on on on all sorts of things. Yeah, we'll we'll definitely do that as well.
39:54
Awesome. Cool. So thank you very very much everybody for for watching and um
40:00
hope you enjoyed that. Um yeah, subscribe to Dom's channel. Um, it's
40:06
awesome. Both our channels. Check out all those videos. I've I've seen each of them and I
40:11
actually enjoyed all of them. So, see you next time. Yeah. Cheers everyone.
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