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The Cloud Show with Magnus Mårtensson ft. Tony Redmond - Ep: 57
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Aug 6, 2025
Join this live session with Magnus Mårtensson ft. Tony Redmond for the next episode of The Cloud Show with Magnus Mårtensson on February 7, at 01:05 PM (EST). The show is about cloud leadership and all the important questions relating to cloud projects. Certainly, many matters when a company is going to and wants to be successful in the cloud, are about technology. However, there are many additional matters, adjacent to technology, that we also need to tend to regarding business strategy, human resources, organizational change, planning for a technical cloud approach, and many more questions. These conversations are critical for a healthy cloud and for a swift and accurate cloud approach. GUEST SPEAKER Tony Redmond is the owner and principal of my own consulting company, and he has worked with a wide range of companies around the world. Some assignments have been to help global corporations understand how to embrace cloud technology, and some to help small software companies figure out how to develop products that work in the cloud. Most of his recent work has focused on Microsoft Office 365. His experience as a technologist and executive gives him a nice mix of skills that help him figure out what's essential and what's not. There aren't many people around who have served as a VP in a large technology company for over ten years and have maintained their technology skills (sixteen books written to date and recognized by Microsoft as a Microsoft Most Valuable Professional (MVP) since 2004. 📺 CSharp TV - Dev Streaming Destination http://csharp.tv 🌎 C# Corner - Community of Software and Data Developers https://www.c-sharpcorner.com #CSharpTV #csharpcorner #TheCloudShow #CSharp #Interview
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0:02
hello everyone and welcome to another
0:04
hello everyone and welcome to another
0:04
hello everyone and welcome to another episode of the cloud show I am here at
0:07
episode of the cloud show I am here at
0:07
episode of the cloud show I am here at espc in Stockholm it's a huge conference
0:10
espc in Stockholm it's a huge conference
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espc in Stockholm it's a huge conference and we're having a lot of fun here and I
0:12
and we're having a lot of fun here and I
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and we're having a lot of fun here and I get to meet up with some of my really
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get to meet up with some of my really
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get to meet up with some of my really good friends around the world and talk
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good friends around the world and talk
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good friends around the world and talk about all kinds of interesting topics so
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about all kinds of interesting topics so
0:18
about all kinds of interesting topics so now we're going to delve into talk about
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now we're going to delve into talk about
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now we're going to delve into talk about and try to figure out the return on
0:23
and try to figure out the return on
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and try to figure out the return on investment for the quite significant
0:25
investment for the quite significant
0:25
investment for the quite significant Capital expend expenditure that a uh
0:29
Capital expend expenditure that a uh
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Capital expend expenditure that a uh manager could make
0:30
manager could make
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manager could make while getting co-pilot licenses and to
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while getting co-pilot licenses and to
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while getting co-pilot licenses and to talk about this interesting topic I am
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talk about this interesting topic I am
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talk about this interesting topic I am going today today have the star of Tony
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going today today have the star of Tony
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going today today have the star of Tony [Music]
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Redmond so hello Tony how you doing I'm
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Redmond so hello Tony how you doing I'm
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Redmond so hello Tony how you doing I'm doing fine thank you welcome to the
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doing fine thank you welcome to the
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doing fine thank you welcome to the cloud show thank you yes the espc
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cloud show thank you yes the espc
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cloud show thank you yes the espc conference pretty cool huh yeah I've
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conference pretty cool huh yeah I've
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conference pretty cool huh yeah I've been to a few of them now and uh this is
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been to a few of them now and uh this is
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been to a few of them now and uh this is a very good community conference this is
1:01
a very good community conference this is
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a very good community conference this is a very good Community Conference I agree
1:02
a very good Community Conference I agree
1:02
a very good Community Conference I agree I like the
1:04
I like the
1:04
I like the um I like the interaction here a lot I
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um I like the interaction here a lot I
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um I like the interaction here a lot I like the level of technical information
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like the level of technical information
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like the level of technical information that's provided by people oh yeah and I
1:13
that's provided by people oh yeah and I
1:13
that's provided by people oh yeah and I think this is a conference that is not
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think this is a conference that is not
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think this is a conference that is not too heavily dominated by Microsoft I
1:17
too heavily dominated by Microsoft I
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too heavily dominated by Microsoft I mean there's clearly a Microsoft
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mean there's clearly a Microsoft
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mean there's clearly a Microsoft presence here but it's not as dominanted
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presence here but it's not as dominanted
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presence here but it's not as dominanted you get as you get some conferen I think
1:23
you get as you get some conferen I think
1:23
you get as you get some conferen I think that there is an open and honest
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that there is an open and honest
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that there is an open and honest conversation about some things that you
1:27
conversation about some things that you
1:27
conversation about some things that you know might be possible to improve in the
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know might be possible to improve in the
1:29
know might be possible to improve in the Microsoft ecosystem as
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Microsoft ecosystem as
1:31
Microsoft ecosystem as well well you got to hope you got to
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well well you got to hope you got to
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well well you got to hope you got to hope I'm not sure that the message gets
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hope I'm not sure that the message gets
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hope I'm not sure that the message gets through all the time but there you have
1:36
through all the time but there you have
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through all the time but there you have that's probably true ongoing challenge
1:39
that's probably true ongoing challenge
1:39
that's probably true ongoing challenge yeah it is it is and and it's a good one
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yeah it is it is and and it's a good one
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yeah it is it is and and it's a good one it's a big Challenge and let's first for
1:43
it's a big Challenge and let's first for
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it's a big Challenge and let's first for the audience uh who are you Tony and
1:45
the audience uh who are you Tony and
1:45
the audience uh who are you Tony and like a little bit what do you
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like a little bit what do you
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like a little bit what do you do well I was a corporate executive for
1:50
do well I was a corporate executive for
1:50
do well I was a corporate executive for years in um digital equipment Compact
1:53
years in um digital equipment Compact
1:54
years in um digital equipment Compact and HP y um I ended up as a vice
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and HP y um I ended up as a vice
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and HP y um I ended up as a vice president in HP a chief technology
1:59
president in HP a chief technology
1:59
president in HP a chief technology officer and uh got to the age of 50
2:02
officer and uh got to the age of 50
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officer and uh got to the age of 50 decided that um maybe there was a
2:05
decided that um maybe there was a
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decided that um maybe there was a different life so I retired and became
2:08
different life so I retired and became
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different life so I retired and became an independent consultant now that's
2:10
an independent consultant now that's
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an independent consultant now that's what I've been doing I write a lot for
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what I've been doing I write a lot for
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what I've been doing I write a lot for about Microsoft 365 mhm uh on practical
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about Microsoft 365 mhm uh on practical
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about Microsoft 365 mhm uh on practical 365.com Office 365 it pros.com and of
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365.com Office 365 it pros.com and of
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365.com Office 365 it pros.com and of course the Office 365 for it Pros book
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course the Office 365 for it Pros book
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course the Office 365 for it Pros book okay and so um you're here at the
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okay and so um you're here at the
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okay and so um you're here at the conference as a speaker yeah and uh you
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conference as a speaker yeah and uh you
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conference as a speaker yeah and uh you you are talking about M365 and so forth
2:32
you are talking about M365 and so forth
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you are talking about M365 and so forth in your talks I guess yep yep very good
2:34
in your talks I guess yep yep very good
2:34
in your talks I guess yep yep very good well I talked about uh the graph po
2:36
well I talked about uh the graph po
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well I talked about uh the graph po shell oh nice SDK uh because we're in a
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shell oh nice SDK uh because we're in a
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shell oh nice SDK uh because we're in a bit of a transition there there's an
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bit of a transition there there's an
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bit of a transition there there's an awful lot of people who came from the on
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awful lot of people who came from the on
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awful lot of people who came from the on premises world who know Powershell I
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premises world who know Powershell I
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premises world who know Powershell I know how to deal with things like
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know how to deal with things like
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know how to deal with things like exchange and SharePoint and team but not
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exchange and SharePoint and team but not
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exchange and SharePoint and team but not necessarily know how to do the graph
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necessarily know how to do the graph
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necessarily know how to do the graph graph is a that was a fun one I did
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graph is a that was a fun one I did
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graph is a that was a fun one I did another session uh which is how to get
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another session uh which is how to get
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another session uh which is how to get information out of the Microsoft 365
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information out of the Microsoft 365
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information out of the Microsoft 365 audit log that's uh that's kind of
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audit log that's uh that's kind of
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audit log that's uh that's kind of interesting because the audit log is the
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interesting because the audit log is the
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interesting because the audit log is the truth of what people actually do inside
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truth of what people actually do inside
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truth of what people actually do inside what they do specifically yes yeah so
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what they do specifically yes yeah so
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what they do specifically yes yeah so that if you understand how to use the
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that if you understand how to use the
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that if you understand how to use the audit log you can extract a lot of very
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audit log you can extract a lot of very
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audit log you can extract a lot of very interesting information from it I I I
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interesting information from it I I I
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interesting information from it I I I believe so and and uh with compliancy
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believe so and and uh with compliancy
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believe so and and uh with compliancy and things like that sometimes companies
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and things like that sometimes companies
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and things like that sometimes companies are they need to they need to have uh
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are they need to they need to have uh
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are they need to they need to have uh proof of proof of audit trails and
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proof of proof of audit trails and
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proof of proof of audit trails and things like that well I mean there's
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things like that well I mean there's
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things like that well I mean there's there other compliance features that are
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there other compliance features that are
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there other compliance features that are available to do that kind of thing uh
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available to do that kind of thing uh
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available to do that kind of thing uh certainly the audit log is of interest
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certainly the audit log is of interest
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certainly the audit log is of interest to forensic in investigators right who
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to forensic in investigators right who
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to forensic in investigators right who need to understand what exactly happened
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need to understand what exactly happened
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need to understand what exactly happened and who did what when and where but uh
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and who did what when and where but uh
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and who did what when and where but uh my perspective on it is that any tenant
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my perspective on it is that any tenant
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my perspective on it is that any tenant administrator needs to know how to get
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administrator needs to know how to get
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administrator needs to know how to get data out of the audit log right just to
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data out of the audit log right just to
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data out of the audit log right just to understand stuff okay about their tenant
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understand stuff okay about their tenant
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understand stuff okay about their tenant very cool so we're almost talking about
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very cool so we're almost talking about
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very cool so we're almost talking about a different thing right now than what we
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a different thing right now than what we
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a different thing right now than what we intended to talk about with this man
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intended to talk about with this man
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intended to talk about with this man we're not we're not because because uh
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we're not we're not because because uh
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we're not we're not because because uh you started off by talking about the
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you started off by talking about the
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you started off by talking about the massive investment that people are
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massive investment that people are
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massive investment that people are making in AI at the moment they are
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making in AI at the moment they are
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making in AI at the moment they are clearly Microsoft has a huge play here
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clearly Microsoft has a huge play here
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clearly Microsoft has a huge play here they're investing up to 20 billion
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they're investing up to 20 billion
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they're investing up to 20 billion massive amounts in that yes in building
4:17
massive amounts in that yes in building
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massive amounts in that yes in building out their data centers and and their
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out their data centers and and their
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out their data centers and and their software yes that cost has been passed
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software yes that cost has been passed
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software yes that cost has been passed on to customers 360 bucks a year for
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on to customers 360 bucks a year for
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on to customers 360 bucks a year for co-pilot mof 365 code that's right so
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co-pilot mof 365 code that's right so
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co-pilot mof 365 code that's right so the question is how do you what data
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the question is how do you what data
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the question is how do you what data exist to
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exist to
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exist to prove that co-pilot is being used that's
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prove that co-pilot is being used that's
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prove that co-pilot is being used that's right so uh a manager is um you know
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right so uh a manager is um you know
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right so uh a manager is um you know convinced somehow by a salesperson right
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convinced somehow by a salesperson right
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convinced somehow by a salesperson right to to to acquire licenses right for for
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to to to acquire licenses right for for
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to to to acquire licenses right for for co-pilot and it's an individual like per
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co-pilot and it's an individual like per
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co-pilot and it's an individual like per person license per month racks up to
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person license per month racks up to
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person license per month racks up to $360 $60 a year US list per person yeah
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$360 $60 a year US list per person yeah
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$360 $60 a year US list per person yeah so if you have many people then you got
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so if you have many people then you got
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so if you have many people then you got a half the amount um yeah well I mean
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a half the amount um yeah well I mean
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a half the amount um yeah well I mean know I assume that you've got some
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know I assume that you've got some
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know I assume that you've got some negotiation skills and you can get the
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negotiation skills and you can get the
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negotiation skills and you can get the price out but the point is but anyway
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price out but the point is but anyway
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price out but the point is but anyway it's a lot of money it's a big
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it's a lot of money it's a big
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it's a lot of money it's a big investment and the question is so the
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investment and the question is so the
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investment and the question is so the question I get asked a lot by people
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question I get asked a lot by people
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question I get asked a lot by people is okay I've made the investment it's
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is okay I've made the investment it's
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is okay I've made the investment it's about a year into the co-pilot Journey
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about a year into the co-pilot Journey
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about a year into the co-pilot Journey mhm y it's a good time after a year to
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mhm y it's a good time after a year to
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mhm y it's a good time after a year to look back and say to take who's using it
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look back and say to take who's using it
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look back and say to take who's using it yeah what are they using it for that's
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yeah what are they using it for that's
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yeah what are they using it for that's right and am I getting value about it
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right and am I getting value about it
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right and am I getting value about it because you the great promise of AI is
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because you the great promise of AI is
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because you the great promise of AI is that you get uh information faster
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that you get uh information faster
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that you get uh information faster productivity game I'm not absolutely
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productivity game I'm not absolutely
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productivity game I'm not absolutely sure that you get it okay okay I really
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sure that you get it okay okay I really
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sure that you get it okay okay I really haven't I mean I use co-pilot myself but
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haven't I mean I use co-pilot myself but
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haven't I mean I use co-pilot myself but I'm not sure I get that I I get huge
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I'm not sure I get that I I get huge
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I'm not sure I get that I I get huge value out of get of cop I I'm pretty
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value out of get of cop I I'm pretty
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value out of get of cop I I'm pretty sure that some persons in a company can
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sure that some persons in a company can
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sure that some persons in a company can uh return that investment uh with with
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uh return that investment uh with with
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uh return that investment uh with with with what they do right but I'm pretty
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with what they do right but I'm pretty
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with what they do right but I'm pretty convinced that not everyone in the
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convinced that not everyone in the
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convinced that not everyone in the company will be able to do it so the
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company will be able to do it so the
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company will be able to do it so the question is where is the break even if
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question is where is the break even if
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question is where is the break even if you will right it's okay if a few people
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you will right it's okay if a few people
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you will right it's okay if a few people are not using it at all but no it's not
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are not using it at all but no it's not
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are not using it at all but no it's not that's a waste ofense and that's that's
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that's a waste ofense and that's that's
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that's a waste ofense and that's that's the question right yeah yeah so the what
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the question right yeah yeah so the what
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the question right yeah yeah so the what people are doing now is that they're
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people are doing now is that they're
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people are doing now is that they're saying after a
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saying after a
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saying after a year who's using it who's not and I've
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year who's using it who's not and I've
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year who's using it who's not and I've got this pool of co-pilot licenses how
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got this pool of co-pilot licenses how
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got this pool of co-pilot licenses how can I make sure that I can give those
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can I make sure that I can give those
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can I make sure that I can give those co-pilot licenses the people who
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co-pilot licenses the people who
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co-pilot licenses the people who actually use it yes because if you don't
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actually use it yes because if you don't
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actually use it yes because if you don't use a technology you get zero benefit
6:29
use a technology you get zero benefit
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use a technology you get zero benefit from us why are we paying for it right
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from us why are we paying for it right
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from us why are we paying for it right exactly that the problem that the den
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exactly that the problem that the den
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exactly that the problem that the den come up with is to
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come up with is to
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come up with is to find that the information which is
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find that the information which is
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find that the information which is available let's say in the Microsoft 365
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available let's say in the Microsoft 365
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available let's say in the Microsoft 365 admin Center yes there's a tell you
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admin Center yes there's a tell you
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admin Center yes there's a tell you usage report for
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usage report for
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usage report for co-pilot
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co-pilot
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co-pilot is very very skimpy I mean if you use so
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is very very skimpy I mean if you use so
6:51
is very very skimpy I mean if you use so here's an example yeah word yeah if you
6:54
here's an example yeah word yeah if you
6:54
here's an example yeah word yeah if you got a co-pilot license world will
6:57
got a co-pilot license world will
6:57
got a co-pilot license world will automatically generate things summary of
7:00
automatically generate things summary of
7:00
automatically generate things summary of a document when you open it that's
7:02
a document when you open it that's
7:02
a document when you open it that's pretty good
7:03
pretty good
7:03
pretty good yeah but to Microsoft to the usage
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yeah but to Microsoft to the usage
7:06
yeah but to Microsoft to the usage report data that Microsoft accumulates
7:09
report data that Microsoft accumulates
7:09
report data that Microsoft accumulates that indicates that you're a very heavy
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that indicates that you're a very heavy
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that indicates that you're a very heavy user of word co-pilot and word I would
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user of word co-pilot and word I would
7:13
user of word co-pilot and word I would say you're absolutely not using co-pilot
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say you're absolutely not using co-pilot
7:15
say you're absolutely not using co-pilot word because this has been done
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word because this has been done
7:17
word because this has been done automatically for what do you get any
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automatically for what do you get any
7:19
automatically for what do you get any benefit unless you actually use the data
7:21
benefit unless you actually use the data
7:21
benefit unless you actually use the data that turns into sort of a false
7:24
that turns into sort of a false
7:24
that turns into sort of a false positive well no it's just Microsoft is
7:26
positive well no it's just Microsoft is
7:26
positive well no it's just Microsoft is pumping up the amount of of usage of it
7:28
pumping up the amount of of usage of it
7:28
pumping up the amount of of usage of it and there the people will look at and
7:30
and there the people will look at and
7:30
and there the people will look at and say oh the summaries are useful
7:32
say oh the summaries are useful
7:32
say oh the summaries are useful therefore I can use copilot to do other
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therefore I can use copilot to do other
7:34
therefore I can use copilot to do other stuff and I can see why they're doing it
7:36
stuff and I can see why they're doing it
7:36
stuff and I can see why they're doing it okay but the point is that if you're
7:38
okay but the point is that if you're
7:38
okay but the point is that if you're looking at the Hard data to measure
7:40
looking at the Hard data to measure
7:40
looking at the Hard data to measure against and you're only going to you're
7:43
against and you're only going to you're
7:43
against and you're only going to you're seeing false readings that's what I'm
7:45
seeing false readings that's what I'm
7:45
seeing false readings that's what I'm saying it's looks like there's a lot of
7:47
saying it's looks like there's a lot of
7:47
saying it's looks like there's a lot of people using those summaries but they
7:49
people using those summaries but they
7:49
people using those summaries but they are in fact just automatically there
7:51
are in fact just automatically there
7:51
are in fact just automatically there well you don't even no you don't even
7:53
well you don't even no you don't even
7:53
well you don't even no you don't even know that use know that you're using
7:55
know that use know that you're using
7:55
know that use know that you're using summaries right right right you know
7:57
summaries right right right you know
7:57
summaries right right right you know that they're using Word copon or cop
8:00
that they're using Word copon or cop
8:00
that they're using Word copon or cop words that's right it appears like but
8:02
words that's right it appears like but
8:02
words that's right it appears like but there are other things I mean it doesn't
8:05
there are other things I mean it doesn't
8:05
there are other things I mean it doesn't mean that they're using copilot and word
8:08
mean that they're using copilot and word
8:08
mean that they're using copilot and word to generate text it doesn't mean that
8:10
to generate text it doesn't mean that
8:10
to generate text it doesn't mean that they're using copilot and word to refine
8:12
they're using copilot and word to refine
8:12
they're using copilot and word to refine text that's right both of which I would
8:14
text that's right both of which I would
8:14
text that's right both of which I would hold to be more high value activities
8:17
hold to be more high value activities
8:17
hold to be more high value activities than a summary true yeah right
8:19
than a summary true yeah right
8:19
than a summary true yeah right especially an automatic summary that's
8:21
especially an automatic summary that's
8:21
especially an automatic summary that's derived from a document that I never
8:23
derived from a document that I never
8:23
derived from a document that I never asked for to so you're telling me that
8:25
asked for to so you're telling me that
8:25
asked for to so you're telling me that you can read the the the the logs and
8:28
you can read the the the the logs and
8:28
you can read the the the the logs and see somebody is using word
8:31
see somebody is using word
8:31
see somebody is using word co-pilot that's basically because they
8:33
co-pilot that's basically because they
8:33
co-pilot that's basically because they open the document in Word but you can't
8:35
open the document in Word but you can't
8:35
open the document in Word but you can't differentiate what they're actually
8:37
differentiate what they're actually
8:37
differentiate what they're actually doing well what I'm saying no no what
8:39
doing well what I'm saying no no what
8:39
doing well what I'm saying no no what I'm saying is that the usage so yeah in
8:42
I'm saying is that the usage so yeah in
8:42
I'm saying is that the usage so yeah in the Microsoft 365 admin Center you have
8:45
the Microsoft 365 admin Center you have
8:45
the Microsoft 365 admin Center you have usage reports yeah user reports are
8:47
usage reports yeah user reports are
8:47
usage reports yeah user reports are based out of a data warehouse yeah and
8:51
based out of a data warehouse yeah and
8:51
based out of a data warehouse yeah and are accessed through a graph API yes the
8:53
are accessed through a graph API yes the
8:53
are accessed through a graph API yes the graph API is not very granular no and
8:57
graph API is not very granular no and
8:57
graph API is not very granular no and what I'm saying is that when it reports
8:59
what I'm saying is that when it reports
8:59
what I'm saying is that when it reports to to you yeah that this user is a heavy
9:02
to to you yeah that this user is a heavy
9:02
to to you yeah that this user is a heavy consumer of copil and word you have no
9:06
consumer of copil and word you have no
9:06
consumer of copil and word you have no idea whether that
9:07
idea whether that
9:07
idea whether that user actually is just seing all these
9:10
user actually is just seing all these
9:10
user actually is just seing all these automated summaries are they actually
9:12
automated summaries are they actually
9:12
automated summaries are they actually interacting with copilot and word in
9:14
interacting with copilot and word in
9:14
interacting with copilot and word in some productive manner doing something
9:16
some productive manner doing something
9:16
some productive manner doing something else actively with it right so the usage
9:19
else actively with it right so the usage
9:19
else actively with it right so the usage data is not very good and what I've
9:21
data is not very good and what I've
9:21
data is not very good and what I've heard from a lot of customers is that
9:24
heard from a lot of customers is that
9:24
heard from a lot of customers is that they don't have enough granular
9:26
they don't have enough granular
9:26
they don't have enough granular information to figure out if who is
9:31
information to figure out if who is
9:31
information to figure out if who is actually
9:33
actually
9:33
actually Ling to to use the AI cuz you know a
9:36
Ling to to use the AI cuz you know a
9:36
Ling to to use the AI cuz you know a summary is not really a very good use of
9:38
summary is not really a very good use of
9:38
summary is not really a very good use of of Ai No not in a document not in a
9:41
of Ai No not in a document not in a
9:41
of Ai No not in a document not in a docum it is in something like if you to
9:43
docum it is in something like if you to
9:43
docum it is in something like if you to summarize an email thread or to
9:45
summarize an email thread or to
9:45
summarize an email thread or to summarize a teams meeting teams meeting
9:48
summarize a teams meeting teams meeting
9:48
summarize a teams meeting teams meeting is good absolutely summary fine but to
9:51
is good absolutely summary fine but to
9:51
is good absolutely summary fine but to have this automatic creation of uh of a
9:54
have this automatic creation of uh of a
9:54
have this automatic creation of uh of a document summary I'm sorry that's not a
9:55
document summary I'm sorry that's not a
9:56
document summary I'm sorry that's not a good use of Ai No it's not necessarily a
9:57
good use of Ai No it's not necessarily a
9:57
good use of Ai No it's not necessarily a good use of AI unless you explicitly
10:01
good use of AI unless you explicitly
10:01
good use of AI unless you explicitly have you have a document and I'm I'm I'm
10:03
have you have a document and I'm I'm I'm
10:03
have you have a document and I'm I'm I'm really going to like this this is so
10:05
really going to like this this is so
10:05
really going to like this this is so much information I'm going to actively
10:08
much information I'm going to actively
10:08
much information I'm going to actively do it maybe co-pilot can't deal with
10:10
do it maybe co-pilot can't deal with
10:10
do it maybe co-pilot can't deal with very large documents so there's that
10:13
very large documents so there's that
10:13
very large documents so there's that there's that so what can we do in this
10:15
there's that so what can we do in this
10:15
there's that so what can we do in this space to uh
10:18
space to uh
10:19
space to uh help company leaders assess the value of
10:23
help company leaders assess the value of
10:23
help company leaders assess the value of R return on investment on co-pilot
10:24
R return on investment on co-pilot
10:24
R return on investment on co-pilot licenses well I think it all comes down
10:26
licenses well I think it all comes down
10:26
licenses well I think it all comes down to data I mean Microsoft is famed for
10:28
to data I mean Microsoft is famed for
10:28
to data I mean Microsoft is famed for talking about their Telemetry yeah uh
10:31
talking about their Telemetry yeah uh
10:31
talking about their Telemetry yeah uh they they they say that the decisions
10:33
they they they say that the decisions
10:33
they they they say that the decisions they make about where they're going to
10:34
they make about where they're going to
10:34
they make about where they're going to invest in is through Telemetry they look
10:36
invest in is through Telemetry they look
10:36
invest in is through Telemetry they look at stuff and they F what features are
10:38
at stuff and they F what features are
10:38
at stuff and they F what features are users are people using and they're the
10:41
users are people using and they're the
10:41
users are people using and they're the ones they're going to invest in so I
10:42
ones they're going to invest in so I
10:42
ones they're going to invest in so I turn that around and say well what data
10:44
turn that around and say well what data
10:44
turn that around and say well what data is available to you that's right and the
10:46
is available to you that's right and the
10:46
is available to you that's right and the data that's available to you is in the
10:48
data that's available to you is in the
10:48
data that's available to you is in the audit log because you can parse the
10:50
audit log because you can parse the
10:50
audit log because you can parse the audit log data in fact there was a great
10:51
audit log data in fact there was a great
10:51
audit log data in fact there was a great session here yesterday by a guy from
10:54
session here yesterday by a guy from
10:54
session here yesterday by a guy from Finland whose Name Escapes Me totally
10:56
Finland whose Name Escapes Me totally
10:56
Finland whose Name Escapes Me totally but he talked about how using some of
10:58
but he talked about how using some of
10:58
but he talked about how using some of the a log data he was able to take that
11:01
the a log data he was able to take that
11:01
the a log data he was able to take that par it out and then push it into push it
11:03
par it out and then push it into push it
11:03
par it out and then push it into push it into powerbi and I think the name you're
11:06
into powerbi and I think the name you're
11:06
into powerbi and I think the name you're looking for is sakar nahi could be yeah
11:09
looking for is sakar nahi could be yeah
11:09
looking for is sakar nahi could be yeah anyway could be yeah I mean like it
11:10
anyway could be yeah I mean like it
11:10
anyway could be yeah I mean like it sounds a good name think so yeah yeah
11:12
sounds a good name think so yeah yeah
11:12
sounds a good name think so yeah yeah I'd have to look it I you know I was
11:14
I'd have to look it I you know I was
11:14
I'd have to look it I you know I was just sitting in the the audience in fact
11:16
just sitting in the the audience in fact
11:16
just sitting in the the audience in fact i' I've been um I have a version of a
11:20
i' I've been um I have a version of a
11:20
i' I've been um I have a version of a par shell script that that's written but
11:23
par shell script that that's written but
11:23
par shell script that that's written but I haven't actually published the article
11:24
I haven't actually published the article
11:24
I haven't actually published the article yet yeah which can takes data from the
11:28
yet yeah which can takes data from the
11:28
yet yeah which can takes data from the usage logs and scores People based on
11:31
usage logs and scores People based on
11:31
usage logs and scores People based on what we what if you like fingerprints we
11:33
what we what if you like fingerprints we
11:33
what we what if you like fingerprints we find and using copilot words and teams
11:35
find and using copilot words and teams
11:35
find and using copilot words and teams and Excel and PowerPoint in Loop and one
11:38
and Excel and PowerPoint in Loop and one
11:38
and Excel and PowerPoint in Loop and one drive one note and all the rest of it
11:41
drive one note and all the rest of it
11:41
drive one note and all the rest of it but then also says okay that's the basic
11:43
but then also says okay that's the basic
11:43
but then also says okay that's the basic data uh that's a non-granular data
11:46
data uh that's a non-granular data
11:46
data uh that's a non-granular data that's just a marker that you have
11:48
that's just a marker that you have
11:48
that's just a marker that you have actually interacted with co-pilot okay
11:50
actually interacted with co-pilot okay
11:50
actually interacted with co-pilot okay in these workloads at least once a day
11:52
in these workloads at least once a day
11:52
in these workloads at least once a day to set the flag okay but then associated
11:56
to set the flag okay but then associated
11:56
to set the flag okay but then associated with that for each user we have AED log
11:59
with that for each user we have AED log
12:00
with that for each user we have AED log data which says okay when we de dive
12:04
data which says okay when we de dive
12:04
data which says okay when we de dive deeper we can see that there were these
12:06
deeper we can see that there were these
12:06
deeper we can see that there were these kind of
12:07
kind of
12:07
kind of interactions now if you want to dive
12:10
interactions now if you want to dive
12:10
interactions now if you want to dive really deep and this is where we get
12:12
really deep and this is where we get
12:12
really deep and this is where we get forensically yeah uh deep what you can
12:14
forensically yeah uh deep what you can
12:14
forensically yeah uh deep what you can use is the graph apis to open an
12:19
use is the graph apis to open an
12:19
use is the graph apis to open an exchange mailbox the user's mailbox mhm
12:22
exchange mailbox the user's mailbox mhm
12:22
exchange mailbox the user's mailbox mhm and go to the hidden folder where the
12:24
and go to the hidden folder where the
12:24
and go to the hidden folder where the compliance records wow are
12:27
compliance records wow are
12:27
compliance records wow are kept by paring the details of the
12:29
kept by paring the details of the
12:29
kept by paring the details of the compliance records you can find the
12:31
compliance records you can find the
12:32
compliance records you can find the prompts and the responses oh what they
12:34
prompts and the responses oh what they
12:34
prompts and the responses oh what they actually yeah were asking and and the
12:37
actually yeah were asking and and the
12:37
actually yeah were asking and and the responses to exactly now that is
12:40
responses to exactly now that is
12:40
responses to exactly now that is uh
12:41
uh
12:41
uh that's a
12:44
that's a
12:44
that's a huge I it's an interesting exercise in
12:47
huge I it's an interesting exercise in
12:47
huge I it's an interesting exercise in computer science oh yeah right yeah yeah
12:49
computer science oh yeah right yeah yeah
12:49
computer science oh yeah right yeah yeah but it's not something I necessarily
12:51
but it's not something I necessarily
12:51
but it's not something I necessarily recommend unless you're in the middle of
12:52
recommend unless you're in the middle of
12:52
recommend unless you're in the middle of a forensic investigation and you have
12:55
a forensic investigation and you have
12:55
a forensic investigation and you have got the sign off which is necessary to
12:58
got the sign off which is necessary to
12:58
got the sign off which is necessary to approve invading somebody's personal
13:01
approve invading somebody's personal
13:01
approve invading somebody's personal mailbox that's right to have a look
13:03
mailbox that's right to have a look
13:03
mailbox that's right to have a look because you know some of those prompts
13:05
because you know some of those prompts
13:05
because you know some of those prompts and some of those responses may contain
13:07
and some of those responses may contain
13:07
and some of those responses may contain pii yeah yeah yeah yeah okay so it's not
13:10
pii yeah yeah yeah yeah okay so it's not
13:10
pii yeah yeah yeah yeah okay so it's not an exercise that I would suggest just in
13:13
an exercise that I would suggest just in
13:13
an exercise that I would suggest just in general people doing you know and I
13:14
general people doing you know and I
13:14
general people doing you know and I don't suggest that any administrator for
13:16
don't suggest that any administrator for
13:16
don't suggest that any administrator for example takes the code that we Ro using
13:19
example takes the code that we Ro using
13:19
example takes the code that we Ro using the graph to do this makes sense to go
13:21
the graph to do this makes sense to go
13:21
the graph to do this makes sense to go and say well well let me take the um the
13:26
and say well well let me take the um the
13:26
and say well well let me take the um the mailboxes of the CEO and their direct
13:29
mailboxes of the CEO and their direct
13:29
mailboxes of the CEO and their direct reports and I'm going to just going to
13:31
reports and I'm going to just going to
13:31
reports and I'm going to just going to poke through their co-pilot records and
13:33
poke through their co-pilot records and
13:33
poke through their co-pilot records and find out what they see I can see some
13:35
find out what they see I can see some
13:35
find out what they see I can see some issues there the kind of privacy there
13:37
issues there the kind of privacy there
13:37
issues there the kind of privacy there but the point is is that the data is
13:39
but the point is is that the data is
13:39
but the point is is that the data is there if you want to use the data you
13:41
there if you want to use the data you
13:41
there if you want to use the data you want to extract the data y but you got
13:43
want to extract the data y but you got
13:43
want to extract the data y but you got to have a reason to use it and the
13:45
to have a reason to use it and the
13:45
to have a reason to use it and the reason why that I'm seeing people coming
13:47
reason why that I'm seeing people coming
13:47
reason why that I'm seeing people coming to now is as I say it's about a year
13:50
to now is as I say it's about a year
13:50
to now is as I say it's about a year they're now reviewing and saying okay
13:53
they're now reviewing and saying okay
13:53
they're now reviewing and saying okay maybe I bought 600 co-pilot licenses do
13:55
maybe I bought 600 co-pilot licenses do
13:55
maybe I bought 600 co-pilot licenses do I need 800 yeah or do I need 400 or do
13:58
I need 800 yeah or do I need 400 or do
13:58
I need 800 yeah or do I need 400 or do we need 400 and if I only need 400 who
14:00
we need 400 and if I only need 400 who
14:01
we need 400 and if I only need 400 who am I going to give them to yeah and one
14:03
am I going to give them to yeah and one
14:03
am I going to give them to yeah and one I've I've talked to a couple of
14:04
I've I've talked to a couple of
14:04
I've I've talked to a couple of companies who saying well what we
14:06
companies who saying well what we
14:06
companies who saying well what we need is something like an aour
14:09
need is something like an aour
14:09
need is something like an aour automation job that runs once a month in
14:12
automation job that runs once a month in
14:12
automation job that runs once a month in the background analyzes all this data
14:15
the background analyzes all this data
14:15
the background analyzes all this data mhm and let's say it says well you're
14:18
mhm and let's say it says well you're
14:18
mhm and let's say it says well you're not using co-pilot very much but I know
14:21
not using co-pilot very much but I know
14:21
not using co-pilot very much but I know you're on vacation so that's okay uh
14:23
you're on vacation so that's okay uh
14:23
you're on vacation so that's okay uh okay but this other chap over here he's
14:26
okay but this other chap over here he's
14:26
okay but this other chap over here he's not using copilot very much so I'm going
14:28
not using copilot very much so I'm going
14:28
not using copilot very much so I'm going to take C
14:29
to take C
14:29
to take C away from that person and I'm going to
14:31
away from that person and I'm going to
14:31
away from that person and I'm going to give it to a candidate user and a
14:34
give it to a candidate user and a
14:34
give it to a candidate user and a candidate user might be somebody who
14:37
candidate user might be somebody who
14:37
candidate user might be somebody who who's in a department where we know has
14:40
who's in a department where we know has
14:40
who's in a department where we know has heavy co-pilot usage but they don't have
14:42
heavy co-pilot usage but they don't have
14:42
heavy co-pilot usage but they don't have it and they're at at a particular level
14:44
it and they're at at a particular level
14:44
it and they're at at a particular level there are lots of ways I mean this is
14:45
there are lots of ways I mean this is
14:45
there are lots of ways I mean this is just data manipulation but they're
14:47
just data manipulation but they're
14:47
just data manipulation but they're talking about doing that kind of thing
14:50
talking about doing that kind of thing
14:50
talking about doing that kind of thing so you have a dynamic shift of co-pilot
14:53
so you have a dynamic shift of co-pilot
14:53
so you have a dynamic shift of co-pilot licenses but you need to drive it with
14:55
licenses but you need to drive it with
14:55
licenses but you need to drive it with some decision decision data otherwise
14:58
some decision decision data otherwise
14:58
some decision decision data otherwise you can't know who would get or not
15:00
you can't know who would get or not
15:00
you can't know who would get or not that's the kind of stuff we're we're
15:02
that's the kind of stuff we're we're
15:02
that's the kind of stuff we're we're working on interesting well that's a
15:04
working on interesting well that's a
15:04
working on interesting well that's a very interesting conversation indeed but
15:06
very interesting conversation indeed but
15:06
very interesting conversation indeed but that's all the time we have for this
15:08
that's all the time we have for this
15:08
that's all the time we have for this episode I want to thank you for coming
15:10
episode I want to thank you for coming
15:10
episode I want to thank you for coming on the cloud show to talk to me about
15:11
on the cloud show to talk to me about
15:11
on the cloud show to talk to me about this thank you very much Tony Che and
15:14
this thank you very much Tony Che and
15:14
this thank you very much Tony Che and audience we'll see you guys next time on
15:15
audience we'll see you guys next time on
15:15
audience we'll see you guys next time on the cloud show
15:21
[Music]
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