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The Cloud Show with Magnus Mårtensson ft. Hannes Lowette - Ep. 28
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Aug 6, 2025
Join this live session with Magnus Mårtensson ft. Hannes Lowette for the next episode of The Cloud Show with Magnus Mårtensson on May 22, at 01:05 PM (EST). The show is about cloud leadership and all the important questions relating to cloud projects. Certainly, many matters when a company is going to and wants to be successful in the cloud, are about technology. However, there are many additional matters, adjacent to technology, that we also need to tend to regarding business strategy, human resources, organizational change, planning for a technical cloud approach, and many more questions. These conversations are critical for a healthy cloud and for a swift and accurate cloud approach. GUEST SPEAKER Hannes Lowette is a passionate .Net backend developer, he likes to focus on service layers, data access, and the performance of a software system. He is experienced with several database engines and a plethora of .Net libraries and frameworks. He likes sharing knowledge with others and doesn't mind talking to business people and he gets very happy when we can deliver a great piece of working software. 📺 CSharp TV - Dev Streaming Destination http://csharp.tv 🌎 C# Corner - Community of Software and Data Developers https://lnkd.in/efFDKE2 #CSharpTV #csharpcorner #TheCloudShow #CSharp #Interview
View Video Transcript
0:03
hello hello everyone and welcome back to
0:06
hello hello everyone and welcome back to
0:06
hello hello everyone and welcome back to another episode of the cloud show today
0:08
another episode of the cloud show today
0:08
another episode of the cloud show today we're going to talk about migrating to
0:11
we're going to talk about migrating to
0:11
we're going to talk about migrating to Asher what it was like in the past what
0:14
Asher what it was like in the past what
0:14
Asher what it was like in the past what it is like today if you use the proper
0:17
it is like today if you use the proper
0:18
it is like today if you use the proper correct tools for the job so um we're
0:21
correct tools for the job so um we're
0:21
correct tools for the job so um we're going to be talking to a good friend of
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going to be talking to a good friend of
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going to be talking to a good friend of mine his name is Hannis and he will be
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mine his name is Hannis and he will be
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mine his name is Hannis and he will be the star on the cloud show tonight
0:28
the star on the cloud show tonight
0:28
the star on the cloud show tonight [Music]
0:38
hello my friend hey Magnus how are you
0:41
hello my friend hey Magnus how are you
0:41
hello my friend hey Magnus how are you doing I'm doing lovely it's good to see
0:44
doing I'm doing lovely it's good to see
0:44
doing I'm doing lovely it's good to see you it was really nice catching up with
0:46
you it was really nice catching up with
0:46
you it was really nice catching up with you last week in Stockholm by the way
0:47
you last week in Stockholm by the way
0:47
you last week in Stockholm by the way yeah I was gonna say it feels like I saw
0:49
yeah I was gonna say it feels like I saw
0:49
yeah I was gonna say it feels like I saw you last week oh wait we did we did it
0:53
you last week oh wait we did we did it
0:53
you last week oh wait we did we did it was gorgeous stockolm was beautiful the
0:55
was gorgeous stockolm was beautiful the
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was gorgeous stockolm was beautiful the weather was nice everything everything
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weather was nice everything everything
0:57
weather was nice everything everything was awesome
0:58
was awesome
0:58
was awesome really yes it it I think what we
1:01
really yes it it I think what we
1:01
really yes it it I think what we encountered last week can be described
1:04
encountered last week can be described
1:04
encountered last week can be described as Peak Swedish weather oh yeah pretty
1:08
as Peak Swedish weather oh yeah pretty
1:08
as Peak Swedish weather oh yeah pretty much the best weather you can ever get
1:10
much the best weather you can ever get
1:10
much the best weather you can ever get in Sweden like 20 23 degrees Centigrade
1:14
in Sweden like 20 23 degrees Centigrade
1:14
in Sweden like 20 23 degrees Centigrade that is for you us people um and a
1:17
that is for you us people um and a
1:17
that is for you us people um and a slight
1:18
slight
1:18
slight breeze Wonder fantastic so um Hannis
1:22
breeze Wonder fantastic so um Hannis
1:22
breeze Wonder fantastic so um Hannis tell the audience who the heck are
1:25
tell the audience who the heck are
1:25
tell the audience who the heck are you I'm hanas um I work for a company
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you I'm hanas um I work for a company
1:29
you I'm hanas um I work for a company called exess in Belgium um I started
1:32
called exess in Belgium um I started
1:32
called exess in Belgium um I started with them over 13 years ago now um as a
1:37
with them over 13 years ago now um as a
1:37
with them over 13 years ago now um as a senior.net developer at the time um I
1:42
senior.net developer at the time um I
1:42
senior.net developer at the time um I made it into coaching developers most of
1:44
made it into coaching developers most of
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made it into coaching developers most of my time right now I'm still involved in
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my time right now I'm still involved in
1:47
my time right now I'm still involved in architecture of projects and that sort
1:49
architecture of projects and that sort
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architecture of projects and that sort of stuff uh but that's mainly what I do
1:52
of stuff uh but that's mainly what I do
1:52
of stuff uh but that's mainly what I do today is helping other developers
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today is helping other developers
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today is helping other developers succeed and that way I get my hands into
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succeed and that way I get my hands into
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succeed and that way I get my hands into many different projects and I hear about
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many different projects and I hear about
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many different projects and I hear about a lot of different projects so that's
2:00
a lot of different projects so that's
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a lot of different projects so that's it's a great job to have and it's really
2:02
it's a great job to have and it's really
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it's a great job to have and it's really fun to do absolutely and so um I I also
2:06
fun to do absolutely and so um I I also
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fun to do absolutely and so um I I also know that and and before I say this
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know that and and before I say this
2:08
know that and and before I say this before I I prompt you with this I'm
2:10
before I I prompt you with this I'm
2:10
before I I prompt you with this I'm going to say we do not have like four
2:13
going to say we do not have like four
2:13
going to say we do not have like four hours to talk about this but I hear like
2:16
hours to talk about this but I hear like
2:16
hours to talk about this but I hear like I hear that you like building
2:18
I hear that you like building
2:18
I hear that you like building guitars yeah and and I I knew that you
2:21
guitars yeah and and I I knew that you
2:21
guitars yeah and and I I knew that you were gonna bring this up so I had this
2:23
were gonna bring this up so I had this
2:23
were gonna bring this up so I had this little baby in the background sitting
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little baby in the background sitting
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little baby in the background sitting ready and so this is something I did
2:29
ready and so this is something I did
2:29
ready and so this is something I did buil myself because we have a band with
2:31
buil myself because we have a band with
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buil myself because we have a band with some other Tech conference speakers
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some other Tech conference speakers
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some other Tech conference speakers needed something small and light to
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needed something small and light to
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needed something small and light to travel and I'm gonna hold this up right
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travel and I'm gonna hold this up right
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travel and I'm gonna hold this up right now because yes that does have a visual
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now because yes that does have a visual
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now because yes that does have a visual studio logo in it Ah that's so gey and
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studio logo in it Ah that's so gey and
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studio logo in it Ah that's so gey and this is my travel guitar which I built
2:47
this is my travel guitar which I built
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this is my travel guitar which I built myself wow and one of the reasons I
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myself wow and one of the reasons I
2:50
myself wow and one of the reasons I started building guitars was because
2:53
started building guitars was because
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started building guitars was because I because I needed a hobby that didn't
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I because I needed a hobby that didn't
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I because I needed a hobby that didn't have anything to do with computer
2:58
have anything to do with computer
2:58
have anything to do with computer screens um it's also a perfect way to
3:00
screens um it's also a perfect way to
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screens um it's also a perfect way to get around one of the two uh key numbers
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get around one of the two uh key numbers
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get around one of the two uh key numbers in the life of a guitar
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in the life of a guitar
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in the life of a guitar owner um one is the number of guitars
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owner um one is the number of guitars
3:09
owner um one is the number of guitars that you need which is always n plus one
3:12
that you need which is always n plus one
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that you need which is always n plus one where n is the number you currently have
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where n is the number you currently have
3:15
where n is the number you currently have H but there is an upper bound to that
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H but there is an upper bound to that
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H but there is an upper bound to that which is the P minus one um where p is
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which is the P minus one um where p is
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which is the P minus one um where p is if you buy one more guitar your wife
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if you buy one more guitar your wife
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if you buy one more guitar your wife divorces you right
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divorces you right
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divorces you right yeah yeah so if you're not buying them
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yeah yeah so if you're not buying them
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yeah yeah so if you're not buying them but building them that's kind of
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but building them that's kind of
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but building them that's kind of cheating you
3:30
cheating you
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cheating you one I'm I'm I'm I'm at seven eight
3:35
one I'm I'm I'm I'm at seven eight
3:35
one I'm I'm I'm I'm at seven eight guitar yeah well my my side my side
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guitar yeah well my my side my side
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guitar yeah well my my side my side thing is is gardening as you can see
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thing is is gardening as you can see
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thing is is gardening as you can see yeah you do chilies right I do and basil
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yeah you do chilies right I do and basil
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yeah you do chilies right I do and basil and stuff right various things anyway
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and stuff right various things anyway
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and stuff right various things anyway moving on brilliant so now we know who
3:48
moving on brilliant so now we know who
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moving on brilliant so now we know who you are so you wanted to talk today
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you are so you wanted to talk today
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you are so you wanted to talk today today about migration so migrating
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today about migration so migrating
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today about migration so migrating applications to aure running them in
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applications to aure running them in
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applications to aure running them in Asher having them run well in Asher
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Asher having them run well in Asher
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Asher having them run well in Asher after you migrated them is
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after you migrated them is
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after you migrated them is not easy to
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not easy to
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not easy to do well if if you think in terms of of
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do well if if you think in terms of of
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do well if if you think in terms of of of the cloud I'm old um just like you
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of the cloud I'm old um just like you
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of the cloud I'm old um just like you like we're old um we we knew a time
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like we're old um we we knew a time
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like we're old um we we knew a time where writing software didn't involve
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where writing software didn't involve
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where writing software didn't involve the cloud and then when we started new
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the cloud and then when we started new
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the cloud and then when we started new projects we would think about things
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projects we would think about things
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projects we would think about things like what kind of Hardware are we gonna
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like what kind of Hardware are we gonna
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like what kind of Hardware are we gonna run this on where are we gonna Host this
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run this on where are we gonna Host this
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run this on where are we gonna Host this what size server do we probably need to
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what size server do we probably need to
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what size server do we probably need to buy to get by the first two years with
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buy to get by the first two years with
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buy to get by the first two years with this like that sort of stuff yeah
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this like that sort of stuff yeah
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this like that sort of stuff yeah absolutely and if you um if you come
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absolutely and if you um if you come
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absolutely and if you um if you come from those times you had applications
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from those times you had applications
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from those times you had applications that ran on um servers that were very
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that ran on um servers that were very
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that ran on um servers that were very well cared after probably either by your
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well cared after probably either by your
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well cared after probably either by your own team or by the team that was sitting
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own team or by the team that was sitting
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own team or by the team that was sitting next to you that was doing the sis Min y
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next to you that was doing the sis Min y
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next to you that was doing the sis Min y y um which led to a different type of
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y um which led to a different type of
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y um which led to a different type of software development than than the type
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software development than than the type
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software development than than the type of software development we're used to
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of software development we're used to
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of software development we're used to right now yeah uh today we we design
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right now yeah uh today we we design
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right now yeah uh today we we design everything with small comp components
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everything with small comp components
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everything with small comp components that we can easily scale that can easily
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that we can easily scale that can easily
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that we can easily scale that can easily fail that can easily recover then it was
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fail that can easily recover then it was
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fail that can easily recover then it was much more of a let's design for this
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much more of a let's design for this
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much more of a let's design for this machine and maybe have a failover
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machine and maybe have a failover
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machine and maybe have a failover machine but that was pretty much the
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machine but that was pretty much the
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machine but that was pretty much the setup running it yep so now moving to
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setup running it yep so now moving to
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setup running it yep so now moving to the cloud it's it's it's like vastly
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the cloud it's it's it's like vastly
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the cloud it's it's it's like vastly different from that so you have old
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different from that so you have old
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different from that so you have old applications that never were built to
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applications that never were built to
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applications that never were built to run in the cloud and now you have to run
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run in the cloud and now you have to run
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run in the cloud and now you have to run them exactly in the cloud using using
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them exactly in the cloud using using
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them exactly in the cloud using using different technology
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different technology
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different technology basically yeah and with some of my
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basically yeah and with some of my
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basically yeah and with some of my customers we try to move some of those
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customers we try to move some of those
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customers we try to move some of those old applications into the cloud and and
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old applications into the cloud and and
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old applications into the cloud and and uh the end goal was always like
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uh the end goal was always like
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uh the end goal was always like eventually we want to take advantage of
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eventually we want to take advantage of
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eventually we want to take advantage of all the good stuff that is in Azure and
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all the good stuff that is in Azure and
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all the good stuff that is in Azure and we want to start using the the um the
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we want to start using the the um the
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we want to start using the the um the platform as a service and and the the
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platform as a service and and the the
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platform as a service and and the the service as a service uh the the software
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service as a service uh the the software
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service as a service uh the the software as a service component uh we don't want
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as a service component uh we don't want
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as a service component uh we don't want to keep running on on on Virtual
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to keep running on on on Virtual
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to keep running on on on Virtual machines but that was the easiest thing
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machines but that was the easiest thing
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machines but that was the easiest thing to do you take this thing that is
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to do you take this thing that is
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to do you take this thing that is running on your your on Prem Ser server
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running on your your on Prem Ser server
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running on your your on Prem Ser server and you package it up and you try and
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and you package it up and you try and
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and you package it up and you try and put it on a server in the cloud and run
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put it on a server in the cloud and run
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put it on a server in the cloud and run it from there yep but very quickly we
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it from there yep but very quickly we
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it from there yep but very quickly we learned that even that wasn't as easy as
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learned that even that wasn't as easy as
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learned that even that wasn't as easy as it sounded because um setting up
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it sounded because um setting up
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it sounded because um setting up security for networks in Azure was
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security for networks in Azure was
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security for networks in Azure was different from doing that on Prem um you
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different from doing that on Prem um you
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different from doing that on Prem um you had no control over when the hardware
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had no control over when the hardware
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had no control over when the hardware would actually
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would actually
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would actually reboot um and they they were going to do
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reboot um and they they were going to do
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reboot um and they they were going to do it at certain times but literally it it
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it at certain times but literally it it
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it at certain times but literally it it could happen at any time you could be so
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could happen at any time you could be so
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could happen at any time you could be so so compared to running something that we
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so compared to running something that we
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so compared to running something that we had fully under control yeah what we
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had fully under control yeah what we
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had fully under control yeah what we found when when we took those
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found when when we took those
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found when when we took those applications and we we had them up and
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applications and we we had them up and
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applications and we we had them up and running in Azure like doing the
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running in Azure like doing the
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running in Azure like doing the operations for them even even if we
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operations for them even even if we
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operations for them even even if we didn't touch the application completely
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didn't touch the application completely
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didn't touch the application completely changed we we had to take different
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changed we we had to take different
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changed we we had to take different stuff into account put monitoring on
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stuff into account put monitoring on
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stuff into account put monitoring on different things deal all that sort of
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different things deal all that sort of
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different things deal all that sort of stuff um in a completely different way
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stuff um in a completely different way
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stuff um in a completely different way in the cloud than we would do on Prem so
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in the cloud than we would do on Prem so
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in the cloud than we would do on Prem so let's
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let's
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let's let's I I couldn't agree more right so
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let's I I couldn't agree more right so
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let's I I couldn't agree more right so let's let's look at that operations
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let's let's look at that operations
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let's let's look at that operations stuff you're talking about um way back
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stuff you're talking about um way back
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stuff you're talking about um way back when right before the cloud the
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when right before the cloud the
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when right before the cloud the application was writing to a log file or
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application was writing to a log file or
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application was writing to a log file or maybe a database or using some some kind
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maybe a database or using some some kind
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maybe a database or using some some kind of tech to to to to tell the world about
7:22
of tech to to to to tell the world about
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of tech to to to to tell the world about how it is and and we've all been
7:24
how it is and and we've all been
7:24
how it is and and we've all been remoting to machines starting up perfmon
7:27
remoting to machines starting up perfmon
7:27
remoting to machines starting up perfmon and and looking in in syst
7:30
and and looking in in syst
7:30
and and looking in in syst we've done that we've done that with the
7:32
we've done that we've done that with the
7:32
we've done that we've done that with the applications that we used to have before
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applications that we used to have before
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applications that we used to have before the cloud and that's not exactly how you
7:37
the cloud and that's not exactly how you
7:37
the cloud and that's not exactly how you do it in the cloud no no that's that's
7:39
do it in the cloud no no that's that's
7:39
do it in the cloud no no that's that's not the way I would want to run um any
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not the way I would want to run um any
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not the way I would want to run um any application today because what we found
7:45
application today because what we found
7:45
application today because what we found out really quickly I'm the kind of
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out really quickly I'm the kind of
7:46
out really quickly I'm the kind of person
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person
7:47
person when when the application goes down and
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when when the application goes down and
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when when the application goes down and they need a volunteer to investigate
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they need a volunteer to investigate
7:52
they need a volunteer to investigate what's wrong um I'll always be the one
7:55
what's wrong um I'll always be the one
7:55
what's wrong um I'll always be the one like raising my hand because okay GL
8:00
like raising my hand because okay GL
8:00
like raising my hand because okay GL you well it's for you may get in trouble
8:03
you well it's for you may get in trouble
8:03
you well it's for you may get in trouble at home because well you may be home at
8:05
at home because well you may be home at
8:05
at home because well you may be home at 3 a.m. right and so that M may happen on
8:09
3 a.m. right and so that M may happen on
8:09
3 a.m. right and so that M may happen on the other hand those are always the days
8:11
the other hand those are always the days
8:11
the other hand those are always the days you learn something it's like absolutely
8:14
you learn something it's like absolutely
8:14
you learn something it's like absolutely yeah this was not supposed to happen it
8:16
yeah this was not supposed to happen it
8:16
yeah this was not supposed to happen it happened anyway we're g to find out why
8:17
happened anyway we're g to find out why
8:18
happened anyway we're g to find out why and we're GNA find out how we can avoid
8:20
and we're GNA find out how we can avoid
8:20
and we're GNA find out how we can avoid this from ever happening again like at
8:23
this from ever happening again like at
8:23
this from ever happening again like at some point we had um msdtc fail in a my
8:29
some point we had um msdtc fail in a my
8:29
some point we had um msdtc fail in a my in an application we had lift and
8:31
in an application we had lift and
8:31
in an application we had lift and shifted into the cloud right and this
8:35
shifted into the cloud right and this
8:35
shifted into the cloud right and this was built on on an service bust with
8:38
was built on on an service bust with
8:38
was built on on an service bust with msmq so you you can imagine like around
8:41
msmq so you you can imagine like around
8:41
msmq so you you can imagine like around which time this was built we we don't do
8:43
which time this was built we we don't do
8:43
which time this was built we we don't do that stuff anymore today um and this
8:46
that stuff anymore today um and this
8:46
that stuff anymore today um and this actually relied on
8:48
actually relied on
8:48
actually relied on having um a trans a transaction across
8:51
having um a trans a transaction across
8:51
having um a trans a transaction across the queuing system and the database for
8:54
the queuing system and the database for
8:54
the queuing system and the database for all of the message handlers and at some
8:57
all of the message handlers and at some
8:57
all of the message handlers and at some point msdtc failed which me meant we
8:59
point msdtc failed which me meant we
8:59
point msdtc failed which me meant we couldn't complete any messages anymore
9:01
couldn't complete any messages anymore
9:02
couldn't complete any messages anymore and the whole system ground to a Hal so
9:04
and the whole system ground to a Hal so
9:04
and the whole system ground to a Hal so trying to investigate that on a network
9:08
trying to investigate that on a network
9:09
trying to investigate that on a network and and computers that aren't
9:11
and and computers that aren't
9:11
and and computers that aren't yours and yeah that was that was a fun
9:14
yours and yeah that was that was a fun
9:15
yours and yeah that was that was a fun night and we ended up ordering pizza I
9:17
night and we ended up ordering pizza I
9:17
night and we ended up ordering pizza I think I got home way past 3:00 a.m. I
9:21
think I got home way past 3:00 a.m. I
9:21
think I got home way past 3:00 a.m. I think I got home like 5: in the morning
9:22
think I got home like 5: in the morning
9:22
think I got home like 5: in the morning was already light
9:24
was already light
9:24
was already light outside um I didn't have to go in the
9:27
outside um I didn't have to go in the
9:27
outside um I didn't have to go in the next day because well that that's also
9:30
next day because well that that's also
9:30
next day because well that that's also part of the territory of of the person
9:32
part of the territory of of the person
9:32
part of the territory of of the person who solves the problem right you're the
9:33
who solves the problem right you're the
9:34
who solves the problem right you're the hero for the day that's okay that's okay
9:37
hero for the day that's okay that's okay
9:37
hero for the day that's okay that's okay then yeah no I get it but but getting
9:39
then yeah no I get it but but getting
9:39
then yeah no I get it but but getting down down and dirty with with a problem
9:41
down down and dirty with with a problem
9:41
down down and dirty with with a problem and and and learning something and F
9:43
and and and learning something and F
9:43
and and and learning something and F figuring it out that's that's absolutely
9:45
figuring it out that's that's absolutely
9:45
figuring it out that's that's absolutely brilliant um I love doing that
9:48
brilliant um I love doing that
9:48
brilliant um I love doing that myself so how about now then uh when you
9:51
myself so how about now then uh when you
9:51
myself so how about now then uh when you are in the cloud with an application you
9:53
are in the cloud with an application you
9:53
are in the cloud with an application you need to use specialized tools and and
9:57
need to use specialized tools and and
9:57
need to use specialized tools and and and operations monitoring things that
9:59
and operations monitoring things that
10:00
and operations monitoring things that can deal with the fact that your
10:01
can deal with the fact that your
10:02
can deal with the fact that your application is now running on a pass
10:04
application is now running on a pass
10:04
application is now running on a pass service or doing some other thing or
10:06
service or doing some other thing or
10:06
service or doing some other thing or using multiple other components like a
10:08
using multiple other components like a
10:08
using multiple other components like a service bus or or anything and and you
10:11
service bus or or anything and and you
10:11
service bus or or anything and and you need to figure all that stuff out uh
10:13
need to figure all that stuff out uh
10:13
need to figure all that stuff out uh using Cloud technology or or services
10:15
using Cloud technology or or services
10:15
using Cloud technology or or services that are are appropriate for the context
10:18
that are are appropriate for the context
10:18
that are are appropriate for the context what what kind of tools would you be
10:19
what what kind of tools would you be
10:19
what what kind of tools would you be using
10:20
using
10:20
using today I I think like the thing that
10:23
today I I think like the thing that
10:23
today I I think like the thing that changed most and and everything else
10:26
changed most and and everything else
10:26
changed most and and everything else ties into that the thing that changed
10:27
ties into that the thing that changed
10:27
ties into that the thing that changed most is is where we we had those
10:30
most is is where we we had those
10:30
most is is where we we had those well-looked after machines and we we
10:34
well-looked after machines and we we
10:34
well-looked after machines and we we moved
10:35
moved
10:35
moved into a whole whole bunch of of commodity
10:38
into a whole whole bunch of of commodity
10:38
into a whole whole bunch of of commodity Hardware in the cloud not managed by us
10:42
Hardware in the cloud not managed by us
10:42
Hardware in the cloud not managed by us um it's the whole Kettle not hurs
10:44
um it's the whole Kettle not hurs
10:44
um it's the whole Kettle not hurs philosophy right H the the the kettle
10:46
philosophy right H the the the kettle
10:47
philosophy right H the the the kettle not pets um yeah Kettle not pets
10:50
not pets um yeah Kettle not pets
10:50
not pets um yeah Kettle not pets philosophy about servers right treat
10:52
philosophy about servers right treat
10:53
philosophy about servers right treat your servers uh servers as cattle where
10:57
your servers uh servers as cattle where
10:57
your servers uh servers as cattle where any animal dying in the herd doesn't
10:58
any animal dying in the herd doesn't
10:58
any animal dying in the herd doesn't really matter whereas the old way we did
11:02
really matter whereas the old way we did
11:02
really matter whereas the old way we did things before was often some some
11:05
things before was often some some
11:05
things before was often some some meticulously configured machines that
11:07
meticulously configured machines that
11:07
meticulously configured machines that were treated as pets if they feel
11:10
were treated as pets if they feel
11:10
were treated as pets if they feel everything went down but there was
11:12
everything went down but there was
11:12
everything went down but there was always like somebody really looking
11:14
always like somebody really looking
11:14
always like somebody really looking after stuff yeah ab and everything ties
11:18
after stuff yeah ab and everything ties
11:18
after stuff yeah ab and everything ties into that the the way we deploy for
11:21
into that the the way we deploy for
11:21
into that the the way we deploy for instance like if if we do things today
11:25
instance like if if we do things today
11:25
instance like if if we do things today and you start a project from scratch
11:27
and you start a project from scratch
11:27
and you start a project from scratch you're going to want to look into
11:29
you're going to want to look into
11:29
you're going to want to look into setting up all of your infrastructure as
11:31
setting up all of your infrastructure as
11:31
setting up all of your infrastructure as code right you don't want to manually
11:33
code right you don't want to manually
11:33
code right you don't want to manually configure and click around in the in the
11:35
configure and click around in the in the
11:35
configure and click around in the in the Azure portal you want to you want to
11:37
Azure portal you want to you want to
11:37
Azure portal you want to you want to have scripts that can re um redeploy
11:42
have scripts that can re um redeploy
11:42
have scripts that can re um redeploy anything that you that you need to have
11:44
anything that you that you need to have
11:44
anything that you that you need to have your application running um also the way
11:47
your application running um also the way
11:47
your application running um also the way that we um make Services inside the
11:51
that we um make Services inside the
11:51
that we um make Services inside the bigger system we're going to design
11:53
bigger system we're going to design
11:53
bigger system we're going to design smaller services and more of them tied
11:56
smaller services and more of them tied
11:56
smaller services and more of them tied together so that they're more resilient
11:58
together so that they're more resilient
11:58
together so that they're more resilient so that we can easily scale some of the
12:00
so that we can easily scale some of the
12:00
so that we can easily scale some of the components in them but the problem with
12:03
components in them but the problem with
12:03
components in them but the problem with that is you're virtually running a lot
12:05
that is you're virtually running a lot
12:05
that is you're virtually running a lot of instances of parts of your software
12:08
of instances of parts of your software
12:08
of instances of parts of your software and monitoring that you cannot no longer
12:11
and monitoring that you cannot no longer
12:11
and monitoring that you cannot no longer rely on on log files or anything you
12:13
rely on on log files or anything you
12:13
rely on on log files or anything you need something that gives you visibility
12:16
need something that gives you visibility
12:16
need something that gives you visibility across the whole ecosystem of things
12:19
across the whole ecosystem of things
12:19
across the whole ecosystem of things that you have up so you're gonna
12:22
that you have up so you're gonna
12:22
that you have up so you're gonna probably use something that's based on
12:24
probably use something that's based on
12:24
probably use something that's based on open Telemetry plug that into Azure
12:26
open Telemetry plug that into Azure
12:27
open Telemetry plug that into Azure Monitor and like all that sort sort of
12:29
Monitor and like all that sort sort of
12:29
Monitor and like all that sort sort of stuff or instead of azure monitor there
12:32
stuff or instead of azure monitor there
12:32
stuff or instead of azure monitor there there's plenty of Alternatives out there
12:33
there's plenty of Alternatives out there
12:33
there's plenty of Alternatives out there for for great observability providers um
12:38
for for great observability providers um
12:38
for for great observability providers um you're going to want to have visibility
12:40
you're going to want to have visibility
12:40
you're going to want to have visibility on all of the components but also you're
12:42
on all of the components but also you're
12:42
on all of the components but also you're going to want to have a trace on this
12:44
going to want to have a trace on this
12:44
going to want to have a trace on this little failure right here where does
12:48
little failure right here where does
12:48
little failure right here where does that come from where did that originate
12:52
that come from where did that originate
12:52
that come from where did that originate into my system and when it was all one
12:54
into my system and when it was all one
12:54
into my system and when it was all one server it wasn't all that hard to do but
12:56
server it wasn't all that hard to do but
12:56
server it wasn't all that hard to do but when it was could only come distri stuff
12:59
when it was could only come distri stuff
12:59
when it was could only come distri stuff out it it becomes tricky so so you'll
13:04
out it it becomes tricky so so you'll
13:04
out it it becomes tricky so so you'll design for that stuff up up front now
13:07
design for that stuff up up front now
13:07
design for that stuff up up front now it's it's not monitoring and logging is
13:09
it's it's not monitoring and logging is
13:09
it's it's not monitoring and logging is not an afterthought it never should have
13:11
not an afterthought it never should have
13:11
not an afterthought it never should have been but you could easily tack it on if
13:14
been but you could easily tack it on if
13:15
been but you could easily tack it on if it was just a simple monolith when
13:17
it was just a simple monolith when
13:17
it was just a simple monolith when you're thinking about a whole
13:19
you're thinking about a whole
13:19
you're thinking about a whole microservice system today you're going
13:22
microservice system today you're going
13:22
microservice system today you're going to need to instrument from day one
13:24
to need to instrument from day one
13:24
to need to instrument from day one you're going to need to do
13:25
you're going to need to do
13:25
you're going to need to do infrastructure as code from day one um
13:28
infrastructure as code from day one um
13:28
infrastructure as code from day one um also you're going to want to figure out
13:31
also you're going to want to figure out
13:31
also you're going to want to figure out what what kind of orchestration you want
13:34
what what kind of orchestration you want
13:34
what what kind of orchestration you want to run this on what do you want to
13:35
to run this on what do you want to
13:35
to run this on what do you want to happen when this one component comes
13:38
happen when this one component comes
13:38
happen when this one component comes under a load do you want to
13:39
under a load do you want to
13:39
under a load do you want to automatically scale or not and then then
13:41
automatically scale or not and then then
13:41
automatically scale or not and then then you will have to design for that and and
13:44
you will have to design for that and and
13:44
you will have to design for that and and you can either do that by just running
13:46
you can either do that by just running
13:46
you can either do that by just running stuff in an app service that
13:48
stuff in an app service that
13:48
stuff in an app service that automatically increases its number of
13:50
automatically increases its number of
13:50
automatically increases its number of instances you don't even need kubernetes
13:52
instances you don't even need kubernetes
13:52
instances you don't even need kubernetes to do any of that um if it grows you
13:55
to do any of that um if it grows you
13:55
to do any of that um if it grows you will probably move into into something
13:57
will probably move into into something
13:57
will probably move into into something like that but you don't you don't really
13:59
like that but you don't you don't really
13:59
like that but you don't you don't really have to um I'm not going to be a
14:02
have to um I'm not going to be a
14:02
have to um I'm not going to be a kubernetes Advocate any anytime soon no
14:05
kubernetes Advocate any anytime soon no
14:05
kubernetes Advocate any anytime soon no no me neither I I I always try to run an
14:08
no me neither I I I always try to run an
14:08
no me neither I I I always try to run an application on the uh hosting
14:10
application on the uh hosting
14:11
application on the uh hosting environment that makes the most sense
14:12
environment that makes the most sense
14:12
environment that makes the most sense for that application specifically um
14:15
for that application specifically um
14:15
for that application specifically um could be kubernetes could be app service
14:18
could be kubernetes could be app service
14:18
could be kubernetes could be app service could be anything could be that it
14:19
could be anything could be that it
14:19
could be anything could be that it really needs to run on a VM so so let me
14:23
really needs to run on a VM so so let me
14:23
really needs to run on a VM so so let me what you're describing now sounds a lot
14:24
what you're describing now sounds a lot
14:24
what you're describing now sounds a lot complicated right I mean there's lots of
14:27
complicated right I mean there's lots of
14:27
complicated right I mean there's lots of new learnings and new things that you
14:28
new learnings and new things that you
14:28
new learnings and new things that you need to to get so let me ask the stupid
14:31
need to to get so let me ask the stupid
14:31
need to to get so let me ask the stupid question why don't I just migrate the
14:33
question why don't I just migrate the
14:33
question why don't I just migrate the VMS to to Azure and and run it on the VM
14:35
VMS to to Azure and and run it on the VM
14:35
VMS to to Azure and and run it on the VM because you know that really works and
14:37
because you know that really works and
14:37
because you know that really works and so well that that works but you're also
14:40
so well that that works but you're also
14:40
so well that that works but you're also not taking advantage of a lot of the new
14:44
not taking advantage of a lot of the new
14:44
not taking advantage of a lot of the new stuff that is going to be available um
14:46
stuff that is going to be available um
14:46
stuff that is going to be available um because not only the hosting platform
14:49
because not only the hosting platform
14:49
because not only the hosting platform has changed the programming languages
14:52
has changed the programming languages
14:52
has changed the programming languages that we use have changed as well yeah um
14:56
that we use have changed as well yeah um
14:56
that we use have changed as well yeah um because this is not a shift that happen
14:59
because this is not a shift that happen
14:59
because this is not a shift that happen happened just in the not net World
15:00
happened just in the not net World
15:00
happened just in the not net World towards Azure this is a shift that
15:02
towards Azure this is a shift that
15:02
towards Azure this is a shift that happened across the entire industry for
15:05
happened across the entire industry for
15:05
happened across the entire industry for all programming languages right so you
15:08
all programming languages right so you
15:08
all programming languages right so you can even see this in in the the the way
15:13
can even see this in in the the the way
15:13
can even see this in in the the the way that languages like Java or CP have
15:16
that languages like Java or CP have
15:16
that languages like Java or CP have evolved over the last
15:18
evolved over the last
15:18
evolved over the last decade um with net it's it's super clear
15:22
decade um with net it's it's super clear
15:22
decade um with net it's it's super clear um that we had this redesign from all
15:25
um that we had this redesign from all
15:25
um that we had this redesign from all NET Framework to net core which was
15:28
NET Framework to net core which was
15:28
NET Framework to net core which was designed to be um working in containers
15:31
designed to be um working in containers
15:31
designed to be um working in containers which was designed to be working on
15:33
which was designed to be working on
15:33
which was designed to be working on Linux um it was designed to have faster
15:37
Linux um it was designed to have faster
15:37
Linux um it was designed to have faster startup times faster response times less
15:41
startup times faster response times less
15:41
startup times faster response times less fluff less overhead something that could
15:45
fluff less overhead something that could
15:45
fluff less overhead something that could be contained in a
15:48
be contained in a
15:48
be contained in a smaller unit so to speak right and and
15:52
smaller unit so to speak right and and
15:52
smaller unit so to speak right and and that's something we've we've also been
15:53
that's something we've we've also been
15:53
that's something we've we've also been seeing in Java so I'm not I'm not
15:55
seeing in Java so I'm not I'm not
15:55
seeing in Java so I'm not I'm not dissing Java in any way we've seen a
15:57
dissing Java in any way we've seen a
15:57
dissing Java in any way we've seen a similar move in that ecosystem and and
16:00
similar move in that ecosystem and and
16:00
similar move in that ecosystem and and we've seen like the the the appeal of
16:02
we've seen like the the the appeal of
16:02
we've seen like the the the appeal of doing nodejs for instance I still don't
16:05
doing nodejs for instance I still don't
16:05
doing nodejs for instance I still don't understand why you would want to do
16:06
understand why you would want to do
16:06
understand why you would want to do JavaScript on your back end but the fact
16:08
JavaScript on your back end but the fact
16:08
JavaScript on your back end but the fact that people are using nodejs reflects
16:11
that people are using nodejs reflects
16:11
that people are using nodejs reflects that those
16:13
that those
16:13
that those smaller apis are literally a thing that
16:16
smaller apis are literally a thing that
16:16
smaller apis are literally a thing that people are doing and often the
16:18
people are doing and often the
16:18
people are doing and often the technology that we do inside them no
16:21
technology that we do inside them no
16:21
technology that we do inside them no longer matters that much because we can
16:23
longer matters that much because we can
16:23
longer matters that much because we can write the next service in something
16:25
write the next service in something
16:25
write the next service in something completely different and we're going to
16:27
completely different and we're going to
16:27
completely different and we're going to communicate over over Q's we're going to
16:29
communicate over over Q's we're going to
16:30
communicate over over Q's we're going to communicate over uh synchronous calls
16:33
communicate over uh synchronous calls
16:33
communicate over uh synchronous calls HTTP uh maybe some planal W uh WCF right
16:37
HTTP uh maybe some planal W uh WCF right
16:37
HTTP uh maybe some planal W uh WCF right you remember that
16:39
you remember that
16:39
you remember that Magnus I can't believe we're that
16:43
Magnus I can't believe we're that
16:43
Magnus I can't believe we're that old but the the thing with all of that
16:46
old but the the thing with all of that
16:46
old but the the thing with all of that is um some of your complexity moves away
16:51
is um some of your complexity moves away
16:51
is um some of your complexity moves away from The Individual Services so The
16:54
from The Individual Services so The
16:54
from The Individual Services so The Individual Services get a lot simpler
16:56
Individual Services get a lot simpler
16:56
Individual Services get a lot simpler but some of the complexity of your
16:58
but some of the complexity of your
16:58
but some of the complexity of your application moves into the uh messaging
17:02
application moves into the uh messaging
17:02
application moves into the uh messaging patterns and the communication patterns
17:04
patterns and the communication patterns
17:04
patterns and the communication patterns with between the services and that's why
17:07
with between the services and that's why
17:07
with between the services and that's why it is important to also have visibility
17:10
it is important to also have visibility
17:10
it is important to also have visibility on that like what is going on between
17:13
on that like what is going on between
17:13
on that like what is going on between all of my services and how are they
17:15
all of my services and how are they
17:15
all of my services and how are they talking to each other because that has
17:18
talking to each other because that has
17:18
talking to each other because that has become a first class citizen in in
17:20
become a first class citizen in in
17:20
become a first class citizen in in application design like how we piece all
17:22
application design like how we piece all
17:22
application design like how we piece all those things together that that is a
17:23
those things together that that is a
17:23
those things together that that is a thing that that we care about yeah it is
17:26
thing that that we care about yeah it is
17:26
thing that that we care about yeah it is I this is all music to my ears I I love
17:29
I this is all music to my ears I I love
17:29
I this is all music to my ears I I love what you're saying here so essentially
17:31
what you're saying here so essentially
17:31
what you're saying here so essentially it sounds to me a lot like moving to the
17:35
it sounds to me a lot like moving to the
17:35
it sounds to me a lot like moving to the cloud clearly is not just move your
17:38
cloud clearly is not just move your
17:38
cloud clearly is not just move your application there and then technical
17:40
application there and then technical
17:40
application there and then technical people will do technical things except
17:42
people will do technical things except
17:42
people will do technical things except in the cloud now because you need new
17:45
in the cloud now because you need new
17:45
in the cloud now because you need new you need new skills right and that's
17:48
you need new skills right and that's
17:48
you need new skills right and that's that's something the cloud vendors will
17:50
that's something the cloud vendors will
17:50
that's something the cloud vendors will will sometimes try to sell you on it's
17:53
will sometimes try to sell you on it's
17:53
will sometimes try to sell you on it's like hey we can take this application
17:55
like hey we can take this application
17:55
like hey we can take this application for you we can we can move to the cloud
17:56
for you we can we can move to the cloud
17:57
for you we can we can move to the cloud like um not not just talk to Microsoft
18:00
like um not not just talk to Microsoft
18:00
like um not not just talk to Microsoft about this I've I've dealt with a lot of
18:02
about this I've I've dealt with a lot of
18:02
about this I've I've dealt with a lot of different cloud and Cloud vendors yeah
18:06
different cloud and Cloud vendors yeah
18:06
different cloud and Cloud vendors yeah right you have those private Cloud you
18:09
right you have those private Cloud you
18:09
right you have those private Cloud you know you know those Cloud right anyway
18:12
know you know those Cloud right anyway
18:12
know you know those Cloud right anyway that's
18:13
that's
18:13
that's it it's it's it's virtual Service uh
18:17
it it's it's it's virtual Service uh
18:17
it it's it's it's virtual Service uh servers with a um self-service
18:21
servers with a um self-service
18:21
servers with a um self-service provisioning portal that's not Cloud to
18:23
provisioning portal that's not Cloud to
18:23
provisioning portal that's not Cloud to Me To Me Cloud is where we
18:25
Me To Me Cloud is where we
18:25
Me To Me Cloud is where we can we're talking about big public cloud
18:28
can we're talking about big public cloud
18:28
can we're talking about big public cloud and the the the the things that come in
18:31
and the the the the things that come in
18:31
and the the the the things that come in those clouds it's the number of of
18:33
those clouds it's the number of of
18:33
those clouds it's the number of of different types of services that you
18:35
different types of services that you
18:35
different types of services that you could be using in the asro platform is
18:37
could be using in the asro platform is
18:37
could be using in the asro platform is what several hundreds we don't know how
18:40
what several hundreds we don't know how
18:40
what several hundreds we don't know how many yeah it's impossible to keep track
18:42
many yeah it's impossible to keep track
18:42
many yeah it's impossible to keep track yeah but the thing it it doesn't have to
18:45
yeah but the thing it it doesn't have to
18:45
yeah but the thing it it doesn't have to be many services for me for me the
18:47
be many services for me for me the
18:47
be many services for me for me the difference between like cloud and cloud
18:52
difference between like cloud and cloud
18:52
difference between like cloud and cloud is where
18:53
is where
18:53
is where we where you have crucial pieces of
18:56
we where you have crucial pieces of
18:56
we where you have crucial pieces of software that are operated for you right
19:00
software that are operated for you right
19:00
software that are operated for you right because if all you're going to give me
19:02
because if all you're going to give me
19:02
because if all you're going to give me is virtual
19:03
is virtual
19:03
is virtual machines I'm still in in 2005 Land right
19:08
machines I'm still in in 2005 Land right
19:08
machines I'm still in in 2005 Land right absolutely right so nobody nobody likes
19:11
absolutely right so nobody nobody likes
19:11
absolutely right so nobody nobody likes that anymore no so if if if I want to
19:14
that anymore no so if if if I want to
19:14
that anymore no so if if if I want to think about messaging between my
19:16
think about messaging between my
19:16
think about messaging between my services um I want to be able to get a
19:20
services um I want to be able to get a
19:20
services um I want to be able to get a fully operated message
19:23
fully operated message
19:23
fully operated message broker um that I don't have to care
19:26
broker um that I don't have to care
19:26
broker um that I don't have to care about what runs behind the scenes I just
19:28
about what runs behind the scenes I just
19:28
about what runs behind the scenes I just have to like be able to pay for a
19:30
have to like be able to pay for a
19:30
have to like be able to pay for a certain capacity of of trut right yeah
19:33
certain capacity of of trut right yeah
19:33
certain capacity of of trut right yeah exactly and I know that that trut comes
19:35
exactly and I know that that trut comes
19:35
exactly and I know that that trut comes at a cost I mean I'm I'm not disputing
19:37
at a cost I mean I'm I'm not disputing
19:37
at a cost I mean I'm I'm not disputing that if I need to add more units to make
19:39
that if I need to add more units to make
19:39
that if I need to add more units to make that happen perfectly the cost of
19:41
that happen perfectly the cost of
19:41
that happen perfectly the cost of running a reliable scalable uh you know
19:44
running a reliable scalable uh you know
19:44
running a reliable scalable uh you know um messaging service you can technically
19:47
um messaging service you can technically
19:47
um messaging service you can technically you can run your own messaging service
19:49
you can run your own messaging service
19:49
you can run your own messaging service in a cloud platform but why would you
19:53
in a cloud platform but why would you
19:53
in a cloud platform but why would you that's the whole point um in in the
19:55
that's the whole point um in in the
19:55
that's the whole point um in in the beginning in the early days of azure
19:57
beginning in the early days of azure
19:57
beginning in the early days of azure when when they only had a few a few
19:59
when when they only had a few a few
19:59
when when they only had a few a few Services right I I read an article
20:02
Services right I I read an article
20:02
Services right I I read an article something on how I read an article on
20:05
something on how I read an article on
20:05
something on how I read an article on how it would effectively be cheaper per
20:08
how it would effectively be cheaper per
20:08
how it would effectively be cheaper per message to run your own rabbit mq
20:11
message to run your own rabbit mq
20:11
message to run your own rabbit mq cluster on Azure than it would be to use
20:14
cluster on Azure than it would be to use
20:14
cluster on Azure than it would be to use Azure service bus and I was like you're
20:18
Azure service bus and I was like you're
20:18
Azure service bus and I was like you're missing the
20:20
missing the
20:20
missing the point because you're also going to be
20:23
point because you're also going to be
20:23
point because you're also going to be maintaining all those virtual machines
20:25
maintaining all those virtual machines
20:25
maintaining all those virtual machines that your rabbitmq runs on and you're
20:27
that your rabbitmq runs on and you're
20:27
that your rabbitmq runs on and you're going to be maintaining your
20:30
going to be maintaining your
20:30
going to be maintaining your rabbitmq and last I checked your your
20:33
rabbitmq and last I checked your your
20:33
rabbitmq and last I checked your your personnel cost wasn't zero yeah so so
20:37
personnel cost wasn't zero yeah so so
20:37
personnel cost wasn't zero yeah so so yeah I remember that blog post was like
20:38
yeah I remember that blog post was like
20:38
yeah I remember that blog post was like yeah this is this is the difference
20:40
yeah this is this is the difference
20:40
yeah this is this is the difference between the old days and the cloud in
20:42
between the old days and the cloud in
20:42
between the old days and the cloud in the cloud we're going to pay for some
20:44
the cloud we're going to pay for some
20:44
the cloud we're going to pay for some commodity things absolutely and that's
20:46
commodity things absolutely and that's
20:46
commodity things absolutely and that's totally fine because it allows us as as
20:50
totally fine because it allows us as as
20:50
totally fine because it allows us as as software developers and Architects to
20:52
software developers and Architects to
20:52
software developers and Architects to focus on the things that actually matter
20:55
focus on the things that actually matter
20:55
focus on the things that actually matter y the things that that are going to
20:58
y the things that that are going to
20:58
y the things that that are going to provide right business value because
21:03
provide right business value because
21:03
provide right business value because writing deploying a database schema um
21:06
writing deploying a database schema um
21:06
writing deploying a database schema um deploying a database
21:08
deploying a database
21:08
deploying a database server um setting up a queuing system I
21:11
server um setting up a queuing system I
21:11
server um setting up a queuing system I mean you don't have to do that because
21:15
mean you don't have to do that because
21:15
mean you don't have to do that because that's a solved problem somebody else
21:16
that's a solved problem somebody else
21:17
that's a solved problem somebody else has solved that for you some of the
21:19
has solved that for you some of the
21:19
has solved that for you some of the great engineers at Microsoft have
21:21
great engineers at Microsoft have
21:22
great engineers at Microsoft have built like things to keep those clusters
21:25
built like things to keep those clusters
21:25
built like things to keep those clusters alive to keep them working properly to
21:28
alive to keep them working properly to
21:28
alive to keep them working properly to monit them to make sure that if they go
21:30
monit them to make sure that if they go
21:30
monit them to make sure that if they go down they can bring them back up without
21:31
down they can bring them back up without
21:31
down they can bring them back up without data loss I mean they have solved that
21:34
data loss I mean they have solved that
21:34
data loss I mean they have solved that problem for us so that we don't have to
21:37
problem for us so that we don't have to
21:37
problem for us so that we don't have to so that we can think about if this
21:40
so that we can think about if this
21:40
so that we can think about if this component of my Software System talks to
21:42
component of my Software System talks to
21:42
component of my Software System talks to that other component in my business and
21:44
that other component in my business and
21:44
that other component in my business and I need to get a message across what does
21:47
I need to get a message across what does
21:47
I need to get a message across what does the content of the message need to be
21:49
the content of the message need to be
21:49
the content of the message need to be because I don't need to worry about the
21:51
because I don't need to worry about the
21:51
because I don't need to worry about the reliability of getting that message
21:53
reliability of getting that message
21:53
reliability of getting that message there right correct correct and those
21:55
there right correct correct and those
21:55
there right correct correct and those are the things that that put the cloud
21:57
are the things that that put the cloud
21:57
are the things that that put the cloud apart and if you're going to use any of
22:01
apart and if you're going to use any of
22:01
apart and if you're going to use any of those managed components then you can
22:03
those managed components then you can
22:03
those managed components then you can actually accelerate your software and
22:05
actually accelerate your software and
22:05
actually accelerate your software and that's the way that I would migrate an
22:07
that's the way that I would migrate an
22:07
that's the way that I would migrate an old application into the cloud right now
22:09
old application into the cloud right now
22:09
old application into the cloud right now is how can we carve out parts that we
22:13
is how can we carve out parts that we
22:13
is how can we carve out parts that we did write before because we needed to do
22:15
did write before because we needed to do
22:16
did write before because we needed to do it because running on
22:18
it because running on
22:18
it because running on Prem carve out those parts parts and
22:21
Prem carve out those parts parts and
22:21
Prem carve out those parts parts and replace them with ready built components
22:24
replace them with ready built components
22:24
replace them with ready built components that are already there with with a
22:26
that are already there with with a
22:26
that are already there with with a service software service that you just
22:29
service software service that you just
22:29
service software service that you just sure Conn yeah exactly and and and like
22:32
sure Conn yeah exactly and and and like
22:32
sure Conn yeah exactly and and and like the first step is is probably um putting
22:36
the first step is is probably um putting
22:36
the first step is is probably um putting your database in in a SQL Server that is
22:39
your database in in a SQL Server that is
22:39
your database in in a SQL Server that is managed by Microsoft and not by yourself
22:41
managed by Microsoft and not by yourself
22:41
managed by Microsoft and not by yourself step ever if you if you're using um if
22:46
step ever if you if you're using um if
22:46
step ever if you if you're using um if you were using some kind of abstraction
22:49
you were using some kind of abstraction
22:49
you were using some kind of abstraction on top of your queuing on Prem let's say
22:51
on top of your queuing on Prem let's say
22:52
on top of your queuing on Prem let's say you're using and service bus or mass
22:54
you're using and service bus or mass
22:54
you're using and service bus or mass transit um if you're using some sort of
22:56
transit um if you're using some sort of
22:56
transit um if you're using some sort of abstraction you can move the queuing
22:58
abstraction you can move the queuing
22:58
abstraction you can move the queuing layer to asure service bus and no longer
23:01
layer to asure service bus and no longer
23:01
layer to asure service bus and no longer worry about the transport right and
23:03
worry about the transport right and
23:04
worry about the transport right and logically it'll still do the same and
23:06
logically it'll still do the same and
23:06
logically it'll still do the same and that will allow you to to piece by piece
23:09
that will allow you to to piece by piece
23:09
that will allow you to to piece by piece rewrite components to take advantage of
23:12
rewrite components to take advantage of
23:12
rewrite components to take advantage of the cloud
23:13
the cloud
23:13
the cloud technology it's never something we take
23:17
technology it's never something we take
23:17
technology it's never something we take this piece of software and we drop it
23:19
this piece of software and we drop it
23:19
this piece of software and we drop it online and the hardest part to always
23:21
online and the hardest part to always
23:21
online and the hardest part to always talk to management about is the last
23:23
talk to management about is the last
23:23
talk to management about is the last mile like you've written most of the
23:26
mile like you've written most of the
23:26
mile like you've written most of the crucial components and and and like that
23:28
crucial components and and and like that
23:28
crucial components and and and like that the the important parts of the system
23:30
the the important parts of the system
23:30
the the important parts of the system are all running on new tech but you have
23:33
are all running on new tech but you have
23:33
are all running on new tech but you have this little bit of leftover that is
23:35
this little bit of leftover that is
23:35
this little bit of leftover that is sitting there and at some point this
23:38
sitting there and at some point this
23:38
sitting there and at some point this becomes a liability because the
23:40
becomes a liability because the
23:40
becomes a liability because the technology is no longer supported you're
23:44
technology is no longer supported you're
23:44
technology is no longer supported you're using uh maybe some libraries that
23:46
using uh maybe some libraries that
23:46
using uh maybe some libraries that require licensing costs nobody knows
23:49
require licensing costs nobody knows
23:49
require licensing costs nobody knows about how it was built anymore I mean
23:51
about how it was built anymore I mean
23:51
about how it was built anymore I mean it's also a people problem right and at
23:53
it's also a people problem right and at
23:53
it's also a people problem right and at some point although that part of the
23:56
some point although that part of the
23:56
some point although that part of the system may not provide the most value
23:58
system may not provide the most value
23:58
system may not provide the most value you you still have to have that
24:00
you you still have to have that
24:00
you you still have to have that discussion like look this is this is
24:02
discussion like look this is this is
24:02
discussion like look this is this is costing us so much money and this is
24:06
costing us so much money and this is
24:06
costing us so much money and this is such a big liability that we do have to
24:08
such a big liability that we do have to
24:08
such a big liability that we do have to make that investment to get rid of the
24:09
make that investment to get rid of the
24:09
make that investment to get rid of the old stuff and I find that that is often
24:12
old stuff and I find that that is often
24:12
old stuff and I find that that is often the hardest the hardest talk to have
24:15
the hardest the hardest talk to have
24:15
the hardest the hardest talk to have it's it's the hardest part of the system
24:17
it's it's the hardest part of the system
24:17
it's it's the hardest part of the system to get a sign off on because they're
24:19
to get a sign off on because they're
24:19
to get a sign off on because they're always weighing that against new
24:21
always weighing that against new
24:21
always weighing that against new functionality right but having having
24:23
functionality right but having having
24:23
functionality right but having having good architecture and good Architects
24:25
good architecture and good Architects
24:25
good architecture and good Architects that can repurpose an old application
24:28
that can repurpose an old application
24:28
that can repurpose an old application for for being a good fit in the cloud is
24:30
for for being a good fit in the cloud is
24:30
for for being a good fit in the cloud is of course crucial in this uh scenario uh
24:34
of course crucial in this uh scenario uh
24:34
of course crucial in this uh scenario uh being able to figure that out because
24:37
being able to figure that out because
24:37
being able to figure that out because the the business wants the uh promise of
24:40
the the business wants the uh promise of
24:40
the the business wants the uh promise of the cloud they want the agility they
24:42
the cloud they want the agility they
24:42
the cloud they want the agility they want the scalability they want to pay
24:43
want the scalability they want to pay
24:43
want the scalability they want to pay per use they want to have all those nice
24:45
per use they want to have all those nice
24:45
per use they want to have all those nice things and you're never going to have
24:47
things and you're never going to have
24:47
things and you're never going to have that when you if you decide to just
24:49
that when you if you decide to just
24:49
that when you if you decide to just shift up your your your VMS to the cloud
24:52
shift up your your your VMS to the cloud
24:52
shift up your your your VMS to the cloud and run the same thing that you did
24:53
and run the same thing that you did
24:54
and run the same thing that you did before except in the cloud now you're
24:55
before except in the cloud now you're
24:55
before except in the cloud now you're never going to reach any of the good
24:57
never going to reach any of the good
24:57
never going to reach any of the good goals then you'll have to start taking
24:59
goals then you'll have to start taking
24:59
goals then you'll have to start taking the thing apart and and figuring out
25:01
the thing apart and and figuring out
25:01
the thing apart and and figuring out which goes where can we replace this
25:03
which goes where can we replace this
25:03
which goes where can we replace this messaging thing with service bus or any
25:07
messaging thing with service bus or any
25:07
messaging thing with service bus or any other messaging caching can we just use
25:10
other messaging caching can we just use
25:10
other messaging caching can we just use the Asher cache instead sure right
25:13
the Asher cache instead sure right
25:13
the Asher cache instead sure right that's how it goes so it's that's it's
25:15
that's how it goes so it's that's it's
25:15
that's how it goes so it's that's it's it's a journey uh from um from old to
25:21
it's a journey uh from um from old to
25:21
it's a journey uh from um from old to all right to excellent yeah but it takes
25:24
all right to excellent yeah but it takes
25:24
all right to excellent yeah but it takes time and the first step is always
25:26
time and the first step is always
25:26
time and the first step is always training the team yeah because you have
25:29
training the team yeah because you have
25:29
training the team yeah because you have the team that built the application on
25:31
the team that built the application on
25:31
the team that built the application on Old Tech and they have skills that match
25:34
Old Tech and they have skills that match
25:34
Old Tech and they have skills that match that and they have to learn how to think
25:37
that and they have to learn how to think
25:37
that and they have to learn how to think about building software
25:39
about building software
25:39
about building software differently and the the the wrong move
25:43
differently and the the the wrong move
25:43
differently and the the the wrong move because because I work for a consulting
25:45
because because I work for a consulting
25:45
because because I work for a consulting firm love that or hate it I don't care
25:48
firm love that or hate it I don't care
25:48
firm love that or hate it I don't care um if if you come in as a Consulting a
25:50
um if if you come in as a Consulting a
25:50
um if if you come in as a Consulting a consultant the tempting thing to do is
25:53
consultant the tempting thing to do is
25:53
consultant the tempting thing to do is to build build a proof of concept and
25:56
to build build a proof of concept and
25:56
to build build a proof of concept and show them like what it can be and then
25:58
show them like what it can be and then
25:58
show them like what it can be and then start lift and shifting into the cloud
26:01
start lift and shifting into the cloud
26:01
start lift and shifting into the cloud and and but the the bigger picture you
26:05
and and but the the bigger picture you
26:05
and and but the the bigger picture you need to look at is who are the people
26:06
need to look at is who are the people
26:07
need to look at is who are the people that are going to be doing this and if
26:08
that are going to be doing this and if
26:08
that are going to be doing this and if you have to rely on on their team like
26:12
you have to rely on on their team like
26:12
you have to rely on on their team like training comes first and you can still
26:14
training comes first and you can still
26:14
training comes first and you can still build that proof of concept and show the
26:16
build that proof of concept and show the
26:17
build that proof of concept and show the team but then the second step is not not
26:19
team but then the second step is not not
26:19
team but then the second step is not not starting the migration it's like here
26:21
starting the migration it's like here
26:21
starting the migration it's like here I'm Gonna Learn you how to do this stuff
26:24
I'm Gonna Learn you how to do this stuff
26:24
I'm Gonna Learn you how to do this stuff yep I'm gonna teach you how to get on
26:26
yep I'm gonna teach you how to get on
26:26
yep I'm gonna teach you how to get on board with with the way of thinking that
26:28
board with with the way of thinking that
26:28
board with with the way of thinking that we do to operate software and it's going
26:30
we do to operate software and it's going
26:30
we do to operate software and it's going to take time it's going to take a bunch
26:32
to take time it's going to take a bunch
26:32
to take time it's going to take a bunch of workshops for them to be up to speed
26:35
of workshops for them to be up to speed
26:35
of workshops for them to be up to speed hopefully by then you have already
26:37
hopefully by then you have already
26:37
hopefully by then you have already identified sort of what components
26:39
identified sort of what components
26:39
identified sort of what components you're going to need so you don't have
26:41
you're going to need so you don't have
26:41
you're going to need so you don't have to train them on all of azure but on a
26:43
to train them on all of azure but on a
26:43
to train them on all of azure but on a couple of
26:44
couple of
26:44
couple of components um but that's that's the
26:47
components um but that's that's the
26:47
components um but that's that's the first step and if you get them in then
26:50
first step and if you get them in then
26:50
first step and if you get them in then and they will become motivated to do
26:52
and they will become motivated to do
26:52
and they will become motivated to do this and they will see the bigger
26:54
this and they will see the bigger
26:54
this and they will see the bigger picture and if they see the bigger
26:55
picture and if they see the bigger
26:55
picture and if they see the bigger picture you can get them on board on
26:57
picture you can get them on board on
26:57
picture you can get them on board on carve out all of the parts of the old
26:59
carve out all of the parts of the old
26:59
carve out all of the parts of the old system absolutely so I I I think we can
27:04
system absolutely so I I I think we can
27:04
system absolutely so I I I think we can talk you and I can talk for for weeks
27:06
talk you and I can talk for for weeks
27:06
talk you and I can talk for for weeks about this topic and we will and we will
27:08
about this topic and we will and we will
27:08
about this topic and we will and we will but not now not tonight not this
27:11
but not now not tonight not this
27:11
but not now not tonight not this instance uh it has been absolutely a
27:13
instance uh it has been absolutely a
27:13
instance uh it has been absolutely a pleasure to have you with us today on
27:16
pleasure to have you with us today on
27:16
pleasure to have you with us today on the cloud show Hanes we went through so
27:18
the cloud show Hanes we went through so
27:18
the cloud show Hanes we went through so many important things uh essentially
27:20
many important things uh essentially
27:20
many important things uh essentially train your people um migrate your
27:23
train your people um migrate your
27:23
train your people um migrate your application into platform Services make
27:25
application into platform Services make
27:26
application into platform Services make it awesome and and reach all that
27:28
it awesome and and reach all that
27:28
it awesome and and reach all that potential all those promises of the
27:30
potential all those promises of the
27:30
potential all those promises of the cloud is kind of what we talked about
27:32
cloud is kind of what we talked about
27:32
cloud is kind of what we talked about and don't forget about the last little
27:33
and don't forget about the last little
27:33
and don't forget about the last little bit just never forget about that which
27:37
bit just never forget about that which
27:37
bit just never forget about that which one well the last little bit the last
27:39
one well the last little bit the last
27:39
one well the last little bit the last part of the system that you need to
27:41
part of the system that you need to
27:41
part of the system that you need to migrate to the awesome yes yes yes to
27:43
migrate to the awesome yes yes yes to
27:43
migrate to the awesome yes yes yes to the awesome awesome Place brilliant
27:45
the awesome awesome Place brilliant
27:46
the awesome awesome Place brilliant we'll let uh the last little bit be the
27:48
we'll let uh the last little bit be the
27:48
we'll let uh the last little bit be the closing words of tonight's Cloud show
27:51
closing words of tonight's Cloud show
27:51
closing words of tonight's Cloud show thanks everyone for watching thank you
27:52
thanks everyone for watching thank you
27:52
thanks everyone for watching thank you hannes for being on the the star of the
27:54
hannes for being on the the star of the
27:54
hannes for being on the the star of the show tonight thanks for having me
27:56
show tonight thanks for having me
27:56
show tonight thanks for having me Absolutely I'll see you next time on the
27:58
Absolutely I'll see you next time on the
27:58
Absolutely I'll see you next time on the L show see you next time bye-bye