0:00
all right so how's the uh how's the coin
0:01
market doing is it is it is it hopping
0:05
iconic items um are tough to find the
0:16
so Don uh you've uh launched an NFT
0:20
program to uh sell uh I guess a a
0:25
fractional ownership of a of a pretty
0:28
rare specimen note of the vaunted
0:32
$100,000 gold certificate of course the
0:35
actual notes themselves were never
0:37
released so you can't you can't actually
0:39
own one of those but you can own a piece
0:42
of the specimen and I wanted to talk to
0:44
you not only about this uh
0:47
particular NFT opportunity and and and
0:50
what gave you the idea to do it and and
0:52
how Kagans is uh offering something very
0:56
unusual for people to be part of but
0:58
also what you think that maybe the
1:00
future fractional ownership of rare
1:02
coins could mean for the rare coin
1:05
market and and and we can kind of dig
1:07
into the crystal ball to see if this is
1:10
a direction that we might see other
1:11
great rarities uh a take so uh tell me a
1:15
little bit about what you're doing
1:19
well this is the uh melding of the
1:21
digital world with the tangible world
1:24
this is the a fractionalization as you
1:27
pointed out of an iconic numismetic item
1:30
where we sell shares in this case it's
1:33
500 shares started out at $1,000 a share
1:37
when we hit over a hundred in two weeks
1:41
$1,150 a share and and so that people
1:45
could who could not own item like this
1:49
most people can't afford
1:52
$550,000 imputed value for all of the
1:56
shares being sold but but but they can
1:59
most people can own a single share or uh
2:03
up up to 20 shares we have a limit on
2:06
how much you can own so it's the melding
2:08
again of the digital world with the
2:11
tangible world where where these items
2:15
are secured by a unique blockchain
2:23
um were all the thing big fad five years
2:27
ago we actually looked at doing that as
2:30
a way a vehicle for selling other iconic
2:34
items that uh we own um and nothing
2:39
really happened to it it was a big fad
2:41
people were buying images of things
2:44
board monkeys and and other images that
2:48
that went up to the moon and then came
2:50
crashing down so it it kind of had a a
2:53
negative implication we we never got
2:56
rolling on that then and but now what an
2:59
NFT really is a nonfunctional not nonf
3:03
fungeable token but it's really just a
3:08
digital receipt for a unique blockchain
3:13
protects a person um on that they have
3:17
ownership that can't be changed and
3:21
um you know and and and using that as
3:25
backing and and security on owning an
3:28
actual tangible real world asset so I'm
3:32
going to put on the screen an image of
3:35
this uh this note and and and on the
3:37
Kagan's uh digital uh website you can
3:41
see the subdivision of the note so
3:44
explain exactly what somebody would get
3:48
uh by purchasing one or two or three uh
3:53
NFTts of this note like what what what
3:56
would they get uh and is there a
4:00
physical representation of of what
4:02
they're getting uh would would would
4:05
there be some sort of protection if they
4:07
forgot their password to their wallet or
4:10
were unable to you know remember what
4:13
exactly they did here uh so what what
4:15
exactly are you doing and then what's
4:17
happening to the note itself
4:21
so it's pretty easy to just go to our
4:25
website Kagan Digital or go to Kagans
4:27
it'll send you to our website and just
4:31
see the note and press a button or click
4:35
a button uh and go to uh buying one of
4:41
the shares there's 500 shares so you can
4:44
now if you buy five shares you can
4:47
actually pick out the actual block
4:50
there's 500 blocks so you can pick out
4:52
the actual one that you want subject to
4:55
it being bought gotten by by somebody
4:58
earlier right so that's something that's
5:00
new uh in this world there have been um
5:05
companies that have sold
5:06
fractionalization or shares in a in a in
5:10
a car or or real estate or or baseball
5:14
cards or or artwork but not not that are
5:19
protected by an NFT um blockchain
5:22
technology and and not in the numismatic
5:26
world uh like that so so again you're
5:30
going to be part of an elite community
5:33
who owns this particular iconic item and
5:36
as you pointed out it's a specimen it's
5:39
the only one uh when I bought it 20
5:43
years ago for my personal collection
5:45
because I like this sort of thing um
5:48
there were thought to be three of them
5:50
now we know there's only one uh was not
5:53
certified now it's certified it has its
5:55
own Freeberg number which is as you know
5:58
our reference work on paper currency so
6:00
you're going to be an owner of this
6:03
unique item and furthermore it's the
6:08
$100,000 denomination US note you can
6:15
so after now we're as 25% of the shares
6:20
were sold in over two weeks the next 100
6:23
shares or I guess would be 75 and
6:27
probably less than that is available at
6:29
1150 but we give incentives um you can
6:33
buy a group of five and if you do that
6:37
um you can click on uh VIP
6:42
uh link and a person will white what
6:45
they said white glove the purchase for
6:48
you very easy walk you through it you
6:51
can buy the on on your own you can buy a
6:54
couple of shares using a credit card but
6:57
if you want to use buy more there's a it
7:00
creates a a red flag or something for
7:03
the credit card company so you can buy
7:05
them by using a check or you can even
7:10
cryptocurrency so so the the there's
7:13
that process you're limited to only
7:15
buying 20 shares because we want as many
7:18
people as possible to to own part of
7:21
this and it's a way again of people in
7:23
my industry and your industry the
7:25
numismatic industry to only own only
7:29
that couldn't be would be out of out of
7:35
um the first time this digital world
7:39
will have the availability of a
7:41
numisatic item and learn about that and
7:44
because it's a $100,000 bill I mean that
7:48
kind of resonates with people even
7:50
outside of the numismatic world so hey
7:54
you know so there we sell a lot of
7:56
thousand even thousand notes even some
8:00
500 5,000 and $10,000 notes which are
8:03
six figure notes right but um but people
8:08
out and and to people that are not
8:10
necessarily in the numismatic mainstream
8:12
collector well now in the crypto world
8:17
um and investment world people can see
8:20
that this thing exists not only exists
8:23
but they can be a part owner of that too
8:25
so we have gotten well over you know
8:28
half of the people that have bought the
8:30
shares so far are not from the newmatic
8:34
so that's the that that's what we have
8:37
here we believe it's just the beginning
8:41
of the fractionalization of numismatic
8:44
items maybe other collectibles too so I
8:48
think this is the next evolution in
8:50
numismatics i think it's part of the
8:52
future where people can own fractional
8:55
parts of an item that's cool interesting
8:59
has a story we're not selling just
9:02
anything we're selling things that you
9:03
couldn't get otherwise pretty much we're
9:07
selling the the Picasso of numismatics
9:10
here so that's the that's the thought
9:13
that's the theory and so far it's
9:17
i'm going to ask speaking of artwork and
9:20
um I'm sure this question has had to
9:22
come up so when you think about a piece
9:26
of currency or this specific piece of
9:29
um there's a design elements you know uh
9:33
and then there's uh uh areas where there
9:36
are no design elements uh and since you
9:39
are subdividing it and I'm I'm sure this
9:41
is clearly being subdivided in a
9:44
geometric geometric way not to give you
9:47
the uh you know pieces of of uh the
9:50
engraving uh do you do you find that
9:53
there there there are clients or people
9:55
who are curious like I'm going to buy
9:58
five of these but I don't want all white
10:00
space i want a little bit of Woodro
10:02
Wilson in my in my in my NFT or how how
10:05
do you what are there different values
10:08
depending on where the cut is uh
10:10
actually um we thought about that too
10:13
but actually it's an incentive to buy
10:15
sooner than later okay obviously the
10:19
first ones that went were the eyes or
10:21
the nose or some people are buying the
10:24
the one and the 100,000 or the G in gold
10:28
or whatever so it's incentive to buy
10:30
sooner than later you get your first
10:32
opportunity we didn't realize just how I
10:36
kind of had an a thought that yeah
10:39
people will want to pick there's many
10:42
people that don't care i mean they just
10:44
want to own a share but in our world we
10:48
care about what things look like right
10:50
and they're cool so yeah brother when I
10:54
I wanna own that one and by the way
10:57
Charles we added something that's not in
11:00
the digital world at all as a matter of
11:03
fact we I I sent you an image of of the
11:08
tombstone that this is what uh in the in
11:11
a in the stocks and bond world you get
11:14
when you buy a share or something well
11:17
we came up with this concept that will
11:21
put a representation of that note right
11:24
that you own the $100,000 note and a
11:28
share a certificate for the share that
11:31
you own and you could embed it in lucite
11:34
and you could put it on on your desk and
11:36
say "That's what I own i own that and I
11:40
own that spot on that note." So it's
11:43
it's and it's not surprising looking
11:46
back but um but many of the people who
11:51
have bought especially those of us in
11:52
the numismatic world who have bought
11:54
shares they really like that idea so
11:58
what is the disposition of the note
12:00
while the uh while the um I I'm assuming
12:04
here that uh the NFT is active until a
12:08
certain point when the node is going to
12:10
uh change hands i I'm I'm sure Kagans is
12:13
going to control the node and when it
12:15
goes to market or if it gets sold if a
12:18
if a if a client comes to you and and
12:20
offers you the right price for that note
12:22
I'm I'm sure it's for sale and and I'm
12:25
I'm assuming that is like the instant
12:27
when people who are fractional owners of
12:30
the note get to profit off of their
12:32
position so what is the current
12:34
disposition of the note and and what
12:36
mechanism do you have in place to be
12:38
able to execute a trade on the note uh
12:41
if the uh situation is advantageous
12:45
the notes held in a safe deposit box
12:48
until I take it on display at a coin
12:50
show or somewhere else um we might have
12:54
a display just for the shareholders
12:57
maybe in a major city but we are
13:01
planning on having the note available uh
13:04
at the fund summer fund show in July in
13:08
Orlando and it'll be on display and
13:11
anybody who's a shareholder can actually
13:15
bill um that's the disposition of it now
13:19
we have had offers on the note but I I
13:23
won't I won't entertain anything at the
13:25
moment that's not uh quite advantageous
13:28
to the shareholders so like I mentioned
13:32
the imputed value that we based it on
13:34
was a number that was very close to what
13:37
I had turned down before all this
13:39
happened for the note years ago uh years
13:42
ago and that is was the imputive value
13:45
like 550,000 and we had a buy it now
13:49
number uh at 650,000
13:53
well now that all the
13:56
thousand shares have been sold and we're
13:59
selling now shares at
14:01
$150 the buy it now price is
14:04
$700,000 somebody comes along and wants
14:07
to talk about that um hey it's just like
14:11
any other coin deal you know hey by give
14:14
me the money you get the note right but
14:18
instantly pay off all the shareholders
14:20
their money and their profit and they
14:23
get uh probably the inside uh uh ability
14:27
to buy into the next NFT
14:31
um and be one of the first ones to again
14:34
pick your pick your spots um so that
14:38
that's the plan now we could have it for
14:41
a year or two or three you know these
14:44
iconic items have done quite well over
14:47
time um I suspect we'll probably and
14:51
somebody will come along probably by the
14:53
end of the year and say "Hey you know
14:56
they want the whole note." Uh only one
14:58
person could actually own the whole
15:00
thing so so there you know I've had my
15:03
pleasure of owning it now it's somebody
15:05
else's but but it isn't just one now I
15:08
got lots of co-owners actually I don't
15:11
own the node anymore it's in the NFT so
15:15
but now there's a lot of an elite
15:17
community of people yeah that can say
15:20
"Hey I own this iconic item." And and
15:22
and you know there'll be some
15:25
communication you know there'll be some
15:27
other promotional items some other
15:29
incentives we're coming up to ideas all
15:31
the time we're looking for feedback
15:34
we're tweaking what this looks like uh
15:38
all the time uh answering questions put
15:41
it on the FAQs and and make it easy for
15:45
people to be a owner in something they
15:49
you know the idea of doing this when you
15:53
of when you kind of project forward and
15:57
possible you know it seems like the a a
16:01
it seems like a trend of uh sort of
16:04
numismatic uh ingenuity that's been
16:07
going around lately is this idea of a
16:09
blind box uh purchase where you know you
16:12
buy the the the hope of uh getting
16:15
something more valuable than what you
16:16
put into it um that you're seeing
16:19
several market makers uh play around
16:21
with and and some collectors being
16:23
interested in uh but it it seems like
16:26
the the the fact that there are so many
16:29
great coins that are out of reach for
16:32
most collectors just due to their rarity
16:34
and their importance and and
16:36
desiraability for the elite collector
16:40
that um taking a position you know for
16:43
a,000 or $2,000 into you know maybe the
16:46
next million-doll coin or something like
16:49
that it seems like that that really is
16:51
sort of an aspirational kind of a
16:55
uh kind of a proposition for somebody
16:58
and I wonder do you feel like you know
17:02
properly handled with by you know
17:05
respected dealers responsible dealers
17:09
that this could be a real opportunity of
17:12
broadening the appeal of some of these
17:14
great coins and to a more broader
17:17
audience than you know being stuck in a
17:20
you know millionaire billionaire sort of
17:22
cycle where we h we just have to find
17:24
those guys to buy these great coins that
17:26
we could probably more democratize it
17:29
and and and bring more people into uh
17:32
serious uh numismatics through this kind
17:35
of um idea you said it as well as I
17:38
could even better um absolutely
17:42
aspirational sure democratic democ
17:46
democratization of uh iconic numismatic
17:49
items or just a real world tangible i
17:55
think think about it i think you're a
17:57
visionary you understand the
17:59
implications this isn't going to be the
18:02
only one whether we do more or others uh
18:09
fractionalization secured by blockchain
18:11
technology in the numismatic field it
18:14
won't be the last there'll be more be
18:18
more opportunities for people to own
18:21
items that they never thought they could
18:24
before and you know it's part what's
18:27
what represented to them i mean it's
18:30
part of your your your mo you get
18:32
emotionally attached as a numispotist as
18:35
a coin collector to some of the items
18:36
that you buy i've heard it referred to
18:39
as this is my baby you know this
18:41
collection of coins you know I'm an
18:43
auctioneer i get consignments all the
18:45
time and and it's tough for some people
18:49
to let go but their kids didn't have an
18:51
interest or whatever it is right we
18:53
understand this and and and now more
18:58
people can be involved and you don't
19:02
have to shell out a half a million
19:04
dollars or a million dollars you know
19:07
for an iconic numismmetic item and you
19:11
know and maybe just as the there's other
19:14
collectibles that this world that this
19:16
could be uh a format for so yeah I think
19:20
this is the next thing in numismatics
19:23
uh next thing in the digital world i
19:25
think this is u has legs and will
19:29
continue to grow yeah and and as you're
19:32
saying Don I mean I think you know the
19:34
NFT is uh you know it in in some
19:38
respects I I guess that's the uh the
19:41
totem for the actual item but but as as
19:44
this idea maybe gets more prevalent in
19:47
in our industry I think for collectors
19:50
it's going to be absolutely essential
19:51
that you're participating in I you know
19:54
programs like this from
19:56
reputable dealers with a track record
19:59
with assurityity that the the the the
20:02
actual item is on in in in storage that
20:06
you know that you don't want to I don't
20:08
think you want to buy NFTts from people
20:09
calling you on the phone that you've
20:11
never done business with because there's
20:13
no guarantee they even own the the
20:14
product so I think that the big the big
20:16
the big challenge for this idea is going
20:19
to be the uh the securization of the uh
20:23
of the item and you know Kagan's
20:26
obviously has a almost century long uh
20:29
history now at this point uh but but
20:32
you're going to but but I think as as as
20:34
leaders in the industry we're going to
20:35
have to make sure that that these um
20:38
these notes are are secured and and and
20:41
um and that we're selling something that
20:44
uh that people actually have a stake in
20:47
so that that's going to be the thing
20:48
that I think the trust building that you
20:50
know people like uh you know companies
20:52
like Kagans and others who get involved
20:54
in this are going to have to make sure
20:55
that they're taking care of that detail
20:59
yes indeed and I and I I think it's
21:01
that's important and um we don't take
21:05
that lightly we before we launched we
21:08
wanted to make sure you know we've done
21:11
our due diligence not just on our
21:13
partner VC ventures and and network that
21:17
uh have built the uh built the platform
21:20
and and and the the ability to people to
21:23
e easily navigate buying this
21:27
NFT and to be as we say shareholders in
21:31
history now but um we want to make sure
21:34
it's done correctly because we see this
21:37
as a format for going forward and maybe
21:41
not just in the numismatic world so
21:44
So we're taking the long-term view of
21:47
that we're taking the long-term view of
21:48
the note of all the NFT items um we want
21:54
to do it right we wanted to make sure
21:55
that people are protected as well as
21:58
have a shot um at making some money but
22:01
more importantly to me and to collectors
22:04
is you know the pride of ownership is
22:06
something they couldn't own otherwise
22:09
well Don good luck with the NFT idea i
22:11
think it's I think it's a great idea uh
22:14
and it's uh always interesting to see
22:16
what what Kagans brings to the market
22:18
and certainly uh you control no shortage
22:22
of very interesting fascinating
22:25
treasures with historical import um
22:27
thinking that Quint and other things um
22:30
and uh and uh Kagans has always been at
22:34
the forefront of some of the most
22:35
interesting numismatic items in the
22:38
market and uh and so I'm excited about
22:41
it uh and we'll see how it how it goes
22:44
and I'm sure when that note sells and
22:46
you have the first $750
22:49
$800,000 uh uh numismatic item tied to
22:53
an NFT that sells it'll be big news it
22:56
will be big news indeed my wife will be
23:00
sure thing all right Don have a great
23:02
weekend i hope you guys uh take it easy
23:05
out there in the West Coast uh wish I
23:08
was out there myself
23:10
anytime you're welcome thank you for
23:12
having me on Charles all right take care