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Can private healthcare ease the pressure on the NHS? | Boardroom Uncovered
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Feb 19, 2025
In this episode of Boardroom Uncovered, Neville Koopowitz, the chief executive of health and life insurance giant Vitality, opens up about growing up in South Africa and living through the transition from Apartheid to democracy as well as talking about whether leadership sits comfortably with him. The CEO also talks to host Jon Robinson about his approach to attempting to maintain a work-life balance, what it takes to be a good chief executive and his biggest successes and failures in his career. Read more of the story here š https://www.cityam.com/vitality-why-your-health-and-life-insurance-premium-will-not-go-down/ Get more of City AM š š http://www.cityam.com X(formerly Twitter): http://twitter.com/CityAM Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/cityam Instagram: http://www.instagram.com/city_am LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/company/cityam Produced by: Jon Robinson, Emmanuel Nwosu, Joe Lee, Joseph Curay Teneda #healthcare #health #nhs #business #businessnews #businessgrowth #vitality #entrepreneurship #entrepreneur #ceo #interview
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0:00
I actually think they're more valuable to us not being on the board if you had to appoint a celebrity to your board who
0:06
would it be and why we got a lot of ambassadors brand ambassadors so I
0:12
actually think they're more valuable to us not being on the board how do you manage the work life balance I think
0:17
when you're operating at this level and you know I don't see it as a job I do think that you can only do this if
0:24
you've really got somebody else in the equation and there I must uh shout out to give a shout out to my wife we've
0:32
adopted a hybrid working model that has actually turned out to be brilliant for us as an organization and it's not about
0:39
the hours that you actually spend in the office it's the the output of the work I do however worry that young people
0:45
coming in from a career perspective uh you know need to actually engage more in
0:51
the sort of uh face to-face environment hello and welcome to bordom uncovered from City am with me John Robinson my
0:59
guest for this episode is Neville koerwitz the CEO of health and life insurer Vitality while attempting to
1:05
make its mascot Stanley the dashans the best loved dog in corporate Britain has Vitality really succeeded in making the
1:12
UK healthier in return for an Apple Watch without any further delay let's dive in well Neville thank you very much
1:18
for coming on barding recover today it's great to have you thank you for having me the only place to start is by talking
1:25
about Stanley the dashin tell me about how the dog has become such a just symbol of the
1:31
company well it's a very interesting sort of evolution of our brand um we
1:38
have been a business that's had a very strong core purpose of making people healthy and enhancing and protecting
1:43
their lives and um in 2014 when we launched the Vitality brand
1:50
after we had bought out the remaining uh shares from prudental uh we had to Rebrand the organization and that's
1:57
hence when we started using the vitality name um but it was very important for us
2:03
to actually get our message across and our message across meant that we
2:08
actually wanted people to change their behaviors live a healthy lifestyle
2:14
because that would be good for them obviously it's good for us as an insurer and society as a beneficiary um how best
2:22
could we bring that to life and that's when Stanley was born as a as a concept
2:28
of this you know dog out there that is little bit you know nose out of joint
2:35
because their owner starting to get healthy they would prefer to live you
2:40
know a lazy life on the couch um so he was really there as a detractor to
2:46
actually put the point across that we know it's tough we know it's difficult it's easier to you know lie in bed than
2:53
go out for a walk or a run um and that's how the uh the character was uh was
2:59
built and uh it's been quite remarkable how that has resonated um you know with
3:05
uh with the general sort of uh consumer out there uh because it's it really is
3:11
the metaphor and the uh uh for for good health Stanley started off a little bit
3:16
mean didn't he I wouldn't say mean uh I would say he's as I said his nose was
3:22
out of joint because he now you know had to do things that he wasn't you know very happy about and that's getting more
3:30
active um but over the years he's actually evolved to actually embrace
3:35
this new way of living um and I think he you know he's a very smart person and uh
3:43
understands you know that if you can look after your health it's good for all parties um and as such uh he he's
3:50
evolved to actually being a bit of an evangelist for the brand now so it's uh it's been quite a remarkable
3:58
transformation and you've got four at home haven't you for Stanley yes I do what's that like must be a lot to deal
4:04
with it's a bit chaotic but uh my wife is an absolute dog lover I've got four
4:11
kids four dogs so I'm Number Nine in the pecking order but uh hopefully as my
4:16
kids have have left home I I'm making my way back up again and I suppose as well as Stanley it's the promotion that
4:22
you've had about giving away a free Apple watch as part of a policy that's really caught people's imaginations did
4:29
that promot was that promotion a success for you so we don't like to see it as a
4:35
promotion it's something that's embedded in our in our product at the fundamental part of what we're trying to do is to
4:41
try to get people healthier and one of the aspects of getting people healthier is actually equipping them with either
4:48
wearable technology or discount at the gym or whatever the case may be and um
4:55
the Apple watch has been a great example of giving people the ability to actually
5:01
get an Apple Watch and if they remain healthy and they do their activities they don't actually have to pay for it
5:07
so it's much more of an enabler for them to get healthier as opposed to a
5:13
promotion tell me about how you struck that deal with Apple then I'm assuming you just didn't just ring up Tim Cook
5:19
and and say I've got this a great idea for you it's it's uh interesting that
5:24
this was done at a global sort of Vitality level um and bu in right from
5:29
the top of Apple uh to actually partner with them apple as you are probably
5:35
aware of very very conscious about their brand and partnering with other uh uh
5:41
organizations uh and I'm pleased to say that this has been one of their better Partnerships they they are fully engaged
5:48
um and that's very very important for us because the the actual customer Journey our members journey of actually signing
5:55
on with us and then getting the Apple watch is seamless and needs that collaboration with him you're absolutely
6:01
right that Apple are very they guard their reputation quite jealously quite closely you know famously in films the
6:08
good guys have apple the bad guys never have apple they have another brand but insurers across the board generally in
6:14
this country a lot of the time they're seen as the bad guys but the fact that apple have chosen to partner with you
6:22
they obviously don't see you as that but you would come back against that challenge as well I'm assuming well I
6:27
think you know from our perspective whilst we are an insurer um we've got a I believe a far
6:35
greater purpose around making people Health here and it's very interesting we came up with this sort of purpose 30
6:41
years ago when we started the organization and people were saying to us well what's making people healthier
6:46
got to do with insurance but the link the C causal link between health and
6:51
risk is so uh obvious that it's uh uh that it's been you know a fundamental
6:58
part of our our business model so whilst we are in insurance I don't believe Apple see us as a traditional insurer um
7:07
they see Vitality as a program that actually assists people getting
7:12
healthier and they can be a component of that especially if I was being very cynical I'd say that you'd want
7:18
everybody who buys your policies to be healthy because you would make more profit as a result because there fewer
7:23
payouts yeah and I don't think that's cynical I think that's actually purposeful because you know we call it
7:29
the Shar value insurance model if we can make our members healthier it's good for them they get rewarded for it in our
7:36
program but it's also good for us because the aeral Dynamics of a healthier population as you said and the
7:42
data is there to actually uh uh back that up healthier people are less likely
7:48
by 29% to be hospitalized and um our latest stat that I I think is is is very
7:56
very powerful is you know going through data over longitudinal sort of study has
8:02
actually shown that if you engage in the Vitality program you can actually extend
8:07
your life by 5 years so you know it's it really is good for
8:13
for the members it's good for us and Society is the beneficiary so they
8:18
actually there very few business models where there no losers and uh we like to think of ours as one of those okay let's
8:26
take it right back to the starts obviously uh people watching people listen to this will realize that you're not originally from these Shores tell me
8:33
about growing up in South Africa and how you've managed to wind yourself up here well growing up in South Africa I mean
8:40
it was quite a um a divisive Society um
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so you know I lived in South Africa through the transition from aparte to
8:52
democracy which in itself was a fantastic experience uh didn't come without its challenges um and and uh
9:00
quite frankly you know the country went through significant transformation and uh um you know Mandela was was
9:08
absolutely uh iconic as as you know in actually bringing the the country together so there were many many
9:15
challenges but it was an exciting time and that is the time that we actually started our business in South Africa
9:21
it's under the name of Discovery in South Africa but it was very very important for us as an organization to
9:28
actually embrace this new world and uh and one of the areas that was under
9:33
significant pressure in South Africa was the provision of healthcare so we entered the marketplace but we had a
9:39
very different purpose around making people healthier as a way of containing health care costs uh and that's where
9:46
the model started evolving so you came to the UK you taken on the Vitality brand you've launched that just over 10
9:53
years ago you've had an awful long time at this company your leadership style
9:58
must have have changed over that point from when he first took on the top job to to now as we sit here I don't think
10:05
the the leadership style has changed but I think things have evolved as you start
10:10
a company you've got very different challenges as the company grows you got
10:15
another set of challenges and as it matures you've got a different set of challenges so I would like to think that
10:22
the fundamentals of leadership and what we have done as an organization around our values around our core purpose has
10:29
remained steadfast and and the same over the period of time and I think if you've got that grounding of that strong sort
10:36
of set of values uh and and the way that you can operate within the boundaries of those values uh yes you're going to go
10:43
through different stages of evolution of a business but the fundamentals stay the same what kind of a leader are you then
10:49
how would you describe your leadership style I mean I subscribe to probably the most important thing is surrounding
10:54
myself with the best people I like to make sure that there's a lot of
11:00
challenge around decision making but once decisions are made I believe very
11:05
firmly that execution needs to actually take place you know that doesn't mean to
11:10
say that we can't revisit a decision but you know as a leader people actually I
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think respect uh decisiveness they they respect you know the the fact that
11:22
there's no ambiguity and they know what they've got to do but very importantly is telling people why we're going down a
11:29
path or or going uh uh in that direction and that I believe is a fundamental sort
11:36
of key element of leadership is actually taking people on the journey with you and we often myself included sometimes
11:44
forget you know we're so busy on our day-to-day activity we've got to you
11:50
know take a step back and actually explain the why to people um but it's
11:55
about getting brilliant people around you and that's what I love about our organization we've got got you know strong people who are challenging um but
12:03
at the same time you know one of our sort of leadership uh Charter principles is you know we can debate and we can
12:09
argue and we can do whatever we want in the in the meeting room but we leave as a united front and most times I have to
12:18
tell you it's basically on consensus there are very very few times where I've
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had to as a leader you know take a position that has left people completely uncomp
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you know I would rather spend more time getting people on board and hearing all the different uh opinions and Views in
12:37
those times where you have to take a position which is maybe contrary to the majority of your senior leadership team
12:43
how does that sit with you well when I said the majority I I probably wouldn't
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have taken I can't think of a a time when the majority of the leadership team were actually against something that I
12:55
wanted to do um it's typically getting some of the minority of the people over
13:00
the line um I would probably ear not doing it because I have such trust in uh
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uh in the people around the table with me um and you know we very very you know
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it's a very flat structure that we operate in everybody's got equal say you know at that around the table and uh you
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know we've tried to create a culture of you know people must speak their minds and uh gets it's not a culture I have to
13:28
tell you that everybody can operate with him no I can imagine not how does leadership sit with you is it
13:36
comfortable um sure that's an that that's an interesting question I think I
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haven't really known any other way you know in terms of I've had leadership
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roles throughout my uh throughout my career um through schooling uh and I've
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always liked to actually get much more involved so I would say it sits
13:59
comfortably with me but making sure that I've actually am
14:04
surrounded by the right uh by the right team uh you can't be a good leader or
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lead in isolation looking over your your career
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to date obviously you know no successful career is is a straight line upwards there's some successes there's some
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failures talk to me about one of the biggest successes that you've had up to this point sure something that sticks
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out to you I think think the the big success was that sort of seminal moment in the evolution of our business where
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we actually launched the Vitality program that was in 1997 and it was done on a almost like a
14:40
hunch that if we actually incentivize people to change their behavior you know it will be good for us
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it will be good for them and we went out into the marketplace fairly naively because we had no data at that
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particular point in time but it was a strong conviction that if we did this it could actually change insurance for the
14:58
better um so I I still look back at that as you know it was pretty high stakes when
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you're actually making a fundamental shift you know the uh uh it wasn't you know received brilliantly by the market
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because they had never seen anything like this before you know we got a lot of attack from our competitors while we
15:20
uh spending hard-earned healthare pounds on rewards and incentives as opposed to
15:25
care and treatment um so we had a we had a road to travel and uh you know getting
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us to where we are today with the uh um with the scale of our Global
15:37
organization being in 41 markets you know partnering with some of the biggest insurance companies in the world is part
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of you know a long journey and uh that's probably one of the uh um one of the
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sort of key sort of moments that stand out for me of course there's the other side of that coin isn't there there's
15:56
maybe things in your career that's not gone to plan something stick out to you in particular
16:02
look I think there's always going to be challenges when you're running a a big business I mean Co was a was a big uh
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was a big challenge uh for us as an insurer as a health insurer it was a challenge because you know the first 3
16:16
months there was just no availability of treatment in the private sector if you
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recall another challenge that that we've had now is that postco you know from a
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health insurance perspective we we've seen a reset of private medical insurance and we've had to impose
16:33
significant premium increases as an industry to actually get the balance uh
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uh balance right again so those are are really tough challenges where you know you you've got a combination of trying
16:47
to actually create stability but at the same time making sure that you're delivering for your customers you say
16:53
that the premiums have gone up in recent years do you ever see a situation where they're going to come down in the I don't no I don't see a situation where
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they're going to come down I think we have reset and that's for numerous reasons firstly they've gone up maybe
17:05
just uh give you a little bit more detail the underlying medical inflation has gone up when you know postco we've
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had these massive sort of consumer price in uh index inflation increases and then
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that has a knock on impact on provision of healthcare services think about a hospital big electricity blls big
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Staffing blls so the cost of actually the provision of care went up and that's a direct function of what your insurance
17:31
premiums uh would be but over and above that we had a definite shift in people
17:37
actually valuing their private medical insurance and one of the key fundamental changes that we actually saw was
17:45
preo private medical insurance was for elective surgery in hospital the ability
17:51
for people to actually get their surgery quicker postco it's a much more
17:56
integrated system you know people want private um primary care services like GP
18:03
Services mental health services so we've seen a dramatic increase in the
18:08
utilization of those Services um which is a good thing because it alleviates pressure of the uh NHS number one and
18:16
number two people have now started to Value their private medical insurance a lot more um so they pros and cons to it
18:24
but the premium increases are a function of those two two areas increasing in inflation but also and equally important
18:31
is the increase in utilization so people are actually using the benefits and extending that sort of remit of uh of of
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of benefits you mentioned earlier about having four kids four dogs and you got a
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full-time job as a CEO of one of the biggest companies in the UK how do you manage the work life
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balance sure um you know I get asked that question I'm not very good at it to
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be honest um you know I I think when you're operating at this level and you know I don't see it as a
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job I see it as just you know part of what I what I've been doing um and they
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do blur there's no question I think Co was particularly challenging in that regard because you know suddenly your
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office became your you know was your home was your school was your gym was
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everything was there um so the blurring of those boundaries is is quite challenging but I I do think that you
19:29
can only do this if you've really got somebody else in the equation and there I must uh shout out to give a shout out
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to my wife you know she takes the major brunt of you know making sure that the
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family is being looked after not that I don't do anything but it's it's it's a
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partnership and uh I can tell you now without somebody who's understands the
19:55
equation it's very very challenging obviously your bringing in a lot of income with your with your job just
20:01
naturally as being a CEO of Vitality but as a father do you ever feel a certain
20:07
level of guilt because you're not at home maybe as much as you would have been in another role um I mean you do you do have those
20:15
those times especially when you're you know traveling overseas um but I did
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make time and I love Sport and I love watching my children play sports so I did make sure that I was always there
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when I could be there um some of the stuff I'm to be honest you know helping with homework and that
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type of stuff I'm probably not that upset that I don't have to always do that um but you know my kids also are
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very understanding and I spend when I I'm with them we spend quality time as a family um but they also as they grow up
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they get into their own worlds their own friends Etc and and my kids are grown up now so um but through that process there
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is no doubt there are some sacrifices to be made and whil we're talking about home I wanted to ask
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you about work from home policy what is it at Vitality what are your thoughts on
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that well we've adopted a hybrid working model that has actually turned out to be
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brilliant for us as an organization there we've gone to two days compulsory in the office um and uh uh interestingly
21:23
enough the sort of attendance in those two days is we sitting at about 97 98%
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so people actually understand the the reason why they've got to come into the office and you know the way that we've
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actually structured it is that teams come in and there's collaboration doesn't help that anybody everybody just
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decides when they're going to come in and it doesn't you know end up teams meetings in the office to people at home
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so we've been very deliberate about the way that we actually have structured it
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um also we we've got a lot of mechanisms and tools that can actually measure
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product ity um the technology that we've empowered our people with from their homes uh and that was one of the
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positive things that came out of Co is we we were forced to in a very short space of time make sure that you know
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the technology was in place uh and it's improved over over a period of time so
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from my perspective I think it's working exceptionally well uh especially with young families you know people with
22:23
young kids the ability for them to to actually um have the ability to do
22:30
things beyond their work and not compromise on their work I think is uh is is very very important and it's not
22:38
about the hours that you actually spend in the office it's the the output of the work um and I think a lot also depends
22:44
on the culture of the organization um I do however worry that
22:49
young people coming in from a career perspective uh you know need to actually
22:55
engage more in the sort of uh face face environment and we're actually starting to see that so whilst we've got the two
23:01
days you know there's some instances where people are coming in 5 days where they're coming in 4 days or three days
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you know is working really really well for us our you know staff sentiment we measure that every 6 months it's at at
23:14
its highest level um and I think the important other thing that we've done is we've we've changed our office
23:22
environment to actually be more conducive some more collaboration areas who made the sort of
23:29
canteen area the heart of the you know the not just rows of desks so the eye can see so you know people actually come
23:36
in and they feel the vibe and that's important for us because there is nothing better than that collaboration
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and just sort of you know having a quick chat over a cup of coffee or the water cooler Vibes are important at Vitality
23:49
it seems yeah lots of people in your position would say you know four days a week five days a week in and that's what
23:55
we want to happen that's right for our culture we've seen in recent days about wpp uh Alan sugar coming out and saying
24:03
you know um it want people back to the office so it's slightly surprising that you're so relaxed about only having
24:10
people in two days a week I guess it's because the results are there I probably
24:16
wouldn't be that relaxed if we if we hadn't seen the results but uh we're very much data driven in everything that
24:23
we do so we want to measure sentiment uh we want to measure productivity and uh
24:29
you know it's my sense is that you know once you legislate people will maybe
24:35
Rebel a bit we seen people come in more than the two days but you know it's
24:41
working for us and uh I'm actually quite proud of the way that the the business has actually sort of embraced it um and
24:50
the the nice thing about it is it's Equitable for everybody irrespective I've got to be in 2 days a week I'm
24:55
normally in 3 to 4 days a week I have a lot of calls around the world so it
25:01
makes sense for me to do some of them at home you know irrespective of where you are in the organization you know the same rules
25:07
apply and those employees who are coming into the office when you're walking around you're having meetings with them you're meeting them what are the top
25:14
three qualities that you think makes a good employee well I would say the top
25:19
quality is fit around the culture somebody who subscribes to our core purpose and values and and it's actually
25:26
quite interesting because a lot of people actually come to our organization because they actually can relate and
25:31
want to be part of what we're trying to do so I think that's a very very important uh uh aspect we look for smart
25:38
people we're not apologetic about that but very importantly people who can collaborate who can bring ideas to the
25:45
uh uh to the table and often when I'm interviewing senior Executives or people
25:51
I want to bring into the organization there's an expectation that they would come in and actually give us new ideas
25:57
or what's the point so we try and encourage that so it's it's very much around that cultural fit
26:04
for example if we putting a senior executive we've recently had a retirement had to uh uh replace senior
26:13
Executives um I ensured that my entire EXO interviewed the person and was comfortable and it was on a veto basis
26:20
if if there was one person who was uncomfortable CU it just takes that that one grape in the bunch that can you know
26:28
upset the uh uh the ecosystem and that is very very
26:36
important we're going to do something slightly different uh we're going to start a new feature for uh 2025 for bord
26:42
un covered we've got six quick fire questions uh I'm going to shoot at you
26:48
and um we're going to try and compare your answers to Future guests so no
26:53
pressure at all but you are the first Guinea pck but the first question is what was your first job
26:58
my first job was uh in an insurance company in the marketing and sales
27:03
division who inspires you the one person that has been the biggest uh inspiration
27:09
was Nelson Mandela if you had to appoint a celebrity to your board who would it
27:15
be and why it's a an interesting question that because we got a lot of
27:20
ambassadors brand ambassadors so I actually think they're more valuable to us not being on the board um because
27:27
they are very carefully chosen as people that can actually deliver our message of of a
27:34
healthy lifestyle and that's why people like Jess Enis Johnny Wilkinson Maro toi
27:40
um you know those ambassadors are are are really powerful Advocates of of our
27:45
business model so I probably wouldn't want to have a celebrity on the board
27:51
okay St a little dog then we'll leave it at that um what was the best thing about your job the best thing about my job I
27:57
guess is is is the people and the impact and the difference that we can make you know I get letters from people who have
28:05
changed their lifestyle and had early detection of illness and writing to me
28:11
and saying thanking Vitality for actually potentially saving their lives we've got many examples of that and
28:18
that's that difference is what actually makes it uh makes it worth it at the end but I guess it's the people around me
28:26
and it's just that sort of you know that naive optimism that we can just achieve
28:32
things that uh that drives me and if you weren't doing this what would you be
28:37
doing now that is a tough question because I've got to answer that question down the line the blurring of the boundaries
28:44
between you know other uh interests Etc I I guess I'd like to be doing something
28:50
where I can make an impact on society um the the fact that I've been able to do
28:55
that as well as run a business and you know become uh financially uh uh
29:00
fortunate through that uh has been a bonus uh so there's nothing specific that uh I mean obviously if I was you
29:08
know talented as a youngst I'd love to have been a sports star but uh that wasn't going to happen they would you
29:13
have played for uh well depends which sport well indeed rugby for example rugby would definitely have a spy to
29:21
play for the spring bucks yeah Cricket but but closer between South Africa and England yeah if you were prime minister
29:27
for the day what would you do that that's a tough one because I don't think you can really
29:33
achieve much in a day so I would probably spend that day making sure I surround myself with the right cabinet
29:39
the right people who can actually execute and spend that time trying to actually articulate and understand what
29:45
the country needs and how best we can actually deliver it brilliant well we'll see what your answers compare to to
29:52
everyone else down the line thank you do you consider yourself successful well it
29:58
depends on how you measure success um I think if I look at the impact that our
30:03
business has had on our members and their change in behavior and getting them healthier uh that to me is probably
30:11
the best measure of of success um so yes
30:16
in that regard uh I think we have been successful I don't want to credit any of that to myself alone because you can't
30:22
do it yourself uh so I think it's our business model that actually drives the uh drives the success so as a business
30:29
model and as a business we've been extremely successful in the UK we've cover nearly 2 million lives now on our
30:35
health and life insurance uh and we hopefully are playing a a significant role in society as well are you able to
30:42
take a step back and look at your career and consider whether you have you know where you've come from where you are now
30:48
do you consider yourself personally a success yeah I think you know I I
30:55
wouldn't change anything um you know I'm always a firm believer that you know
31:01
timing is important and different roles within the organiz I only really know
31:06
this this organization I've been with in truth I've been there nearly 30 years from this from the start so it's much
31:12
more of a you know our business as opposed to I work for a an organization
31:18
but if I look back um the sort of diverse nature of you know being in
31:24
South Africa then coming to the UK then running the health business getting much more involved now in the global business
31:29
it's those sort of elements of when was the time right to move that I've actually been quite fortunate and that I
31:35
think has led to a lot of the success we spoke earlier about s the top three qualities for an
31:40
employee what top three qualities do you look for in a senior leader when you were interviewing them I think very
31:46
similar the the fit is uh the ability to take responsibility and accountability
31:53
you know I often say to people you may inherit something that you weren't responsible for
31:58
you know going forward you're actually accountable so you know you can uh can look back about all the issues or you
32:05
can look forward about how you're going to solve them so I'm looking for people who proactive coming with Solutions um I
32:11
like to challenge you know people must raise issues because you don't want to be naive to those issues but at the same
32:17
time they can't just raise issues without Solutions so I'm looking for solution oriented people people who can
32:24
lead teams and get that message message down to the teams and that is critically
32:29
important that's our biggest challenge as a as a leadership team and leadership in general our feel is the ability to
32:36
actually get the message through middle management down to uh to the actual people on the ground and that is a big
32:44
big challenge so I'm looking for those type of attributes of of people and then the culture fit you know people
32:51
generally that would want to come to our organization you know subscribe to our values we've got a a very strong set of
32:57
values um which are quite challenging they may you know just be words on a piece of paper but the way that people
33:04
actually live their values is very very important so you know you've got to be comfortable that the people you're
33:09
bringing into the organization can actually live your values of course you're at the other side of the interview right now but when you're on
33:17
my site and you're interviewing a senior leader to join the company do you have a
33:22
particular question that you always ask that is revealing not not really I'm not one of
33:27
those that tries to trick them in you know what would you be if you weren't a human you know what what what color
33:34
would you be you know I mean it's a I've I've read up about those type of things I think it's getting a deeper
33:39
understanding of what makes that person tick and you know over years of experience you can you can pick up
33:45
pretty quickly if that person's going to be is the real deal has got that value system and actually will fit into your
33:51
organization so when I'm interviewing somebody a senior potential senior executive I'm thinking how they going to
33:58
react to XY Z how are they going to react to this situation to that situ so I probe a lot on that and I mean you
34:06
know obviously everybody's trying to give you the answer that you they think you want to hear so often during my
34:13
interviews I actually try discourage the people from actually joining saying are you sure you actually want this because
34:19
you say that you have these values you say that you can work in a bit of a chaotic sort of organized chaos and
34:26
fastpaced Etc um but do you actually really mean that
34:32
and have you done that before and give me examples of where you've done that because presumably they've gone through
34:38
rounds and rounds you know of interviews maybe to get to speak to you and then you're saying are you sure you actually
34:45
want to to join actually interestingly at the most senior levels I like to see the short list first so for you know a
34:53
big position I'd probably see eight people first and then after would want my colleagues to see them so I don't
35:00
like this sort of faltering through the process um you know obviously when you
35:06
when you interviewing lots and lots of people within the organization there's structure that goes with it uh but
35:12
typically I would spend a lot of time with the uh The Firm that is actually
35:18
doing the search for us to actually articulate exactly what I'm looking for and that relationship with that search
35:25
firm is is absolutely critical because they you know a good search room will get into you into your psyche to
35:32
actually understand what you're looking for um and we've had very good experiences with that with search firms
35:38
where a lot of time is taken to for them to actually understand what uh what we're looking for and then yes you know
35:45
and we we completely Unapologetic for you know some people have gone through 10 12 interviews uh the chairman of our
35:52
board would interview them the founder you know our CEO and founder in South Africa uh would interview them so it's
36:00
important that we get the sort of crosssectional sort of views of different people who will ask and and
36:07
and look for different traits in the person and also I've got you here I've got to ask you a couple of questions just about your thoughts on the
36:13
government's growth agenda at the moment it's it's always in the headlines for one reason or another what are your
36:20
thoughts on how the government is doing and trying to drive growth in the UK so
36:26
I think the narrative is spot we have to drive growth but you know at the same
36:31
time we've also got to be understanding that you know this this country looked after its people during Co there was
36:38
significant amount of government support during that and uh the reality is that
36:45
you know it's we got to balance things out so it's a very tricky sort of uh uh
36:50
Balancing Act of growth versus you know borrowings Etc and how we actually uh
36:56
how the government actually does that um but I I believe the noises and the narrative or right about this growth
37:02
agenda um we'll just have to wait and see finally um what do you think it
37:10
takes to be a good CEO I think you've got to surround yourself with great
37:16
people and that's you know as I said you know at home there's a you know the
37:21
other half of the equation has to actually be supportive you got to make sure that you got great people around
37:27
you that can actually allow you to do your job and uh and I've never been
37:32
short of that um and the ability to actually get people to think you know
37:39
around the values around our purpose we don't want the same top of people but they got to bring different ideas
37:45
different sort of skills to the uh uh uh to the table but I guess the the one
37:50
thing and I've learned over the years as as i' as as I've grown is listening more
37:58
um you know I think when you're young and enthusiastic sometimes you don't listen as much as you should uh I found
38:05
that listening actually um is is key and then probing questions my role is to
38:12
actually ask questions of my people you know and get them to actually uh answer
38:18
those questions so it helps me from an understanding point of view and helps me
38:23
to give guidance as well so it's very difficult to just see one attribute but
38:28
it's about people it's about surrounding yourself with the best people and uh and I think that's one of the biggest
38:35
challenges that people face because sometimes especially in middle management they don't want to employ somebody that may be better than them
38:41
I've always had that sort of uh fortunately had that attitude and haven't felt threatened by saying I
38:48
actually need to employ somebody who's actually better than me cuz if they're not better than me what are they going to add so I think that takes a level of
38:56
maturity over period of uh a period of time um and it I do worry uh going
39:02
forward with you know what's happening in society with young people Etc uh and the way that you know companies are just
39:10
looking at you know who's got the best CV without actually understanding you know the the impact that actual humans
39:18
can have um we just got to be careful of that brilliant Neville Cooper CEO of
39:23
Vitality thank you very much for coming in thank you cheers [Music]
#Public Health