Up next in 10
How do you go from dealing cards on a cruise ship to negotiating a massive multi-million dollar acquisition with the #1 sports betting brand in America?
In this exclusive interview, we sit down with investor, founder, and author Karolina Pelc to discuss her incredible career journey and her brand-new debut book, "Her Play: Make Your Own Luck."
Karolina pulls back the curtain on the messy, unfiltered reality of high-stakes entrepreneurship. We unpack how she scaled her tech startup, BeyondPlay, raised over €7M in venture capital, and successfully orchestrated a rapid exit to FanDuel, all while navigating a heavily male-dominated industry.
If you are a founder, an aspiring entrepreneur, or someone trying to map out an ambitious career without a textbook, this conversation is your blueprint.
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0:00
There were people that came here to work
0:02
as hard as they can and live as cheaply
0:04
as they can, save a lot of money and go
0:06
back to their lives back in Poland. I
0:08
came here to fully monetize the
0:09
opportunity that London presented and I
0:11
was 21 at the time. I ended up in a
0:14
close proximity of Leicester Square and
0:16
working in a casino that also means
0:18
you're finishing your shift around 4:00
0:19
a.m. which is not the best time to find
0:21
yourself in that part of London. And
0:23
then I had to travel on night buses
0:25
including Camden and Stratford which if
0:27
you're talking 20 years ago I you can
0:30
imagine probably not the safest place to
0:32
find yourself at 5:00, 6:00 in the
0:33
morning on your own. One of my main
0:35
motto, I don't really believe in an
0:37
imposter syndrome. I don't really
0:38
believe in not belonging to the room. I
0:41
believe more in paying the price for a
0:43
while of being uncomfortable until you
0:45
arrive at the place where you feel you
0:47
fully belong and this is where you're
0:48
supposed to be.
0:49
>> So it's safe to say my career. I've
0:51
interviewed a fair number of founders
0:53
and CEOs now. But I think it's safe to
0:54
say that I am yet to interview one who
0:56
started their career
0:58
in a Polish casino.
1:00
Which is what we're doing today. Today
1:01
I'm joined by Carolina Pelc to talk
1:03
about her new book Her Play which looks
1:05
at your beginnings from Poland to the UK
1:09
to cruise ships and then on to online
1:11
gambling. So it's safe to say that
1:12
you've had quite a varied career. But as
1:14
always let's start at the beginning.
1:15
Let's start with how you found yourself
1:17
in that Polish casino in quite a
1:18
colorful first chapter with words that I
1:20
won't repeat here dealing with a very
1:22
difficult client if you will.
1:24
>> Uh trust me the words that I use in the
1:25
first chapter are still filtered version
1:28
of events.
1:29
Um so in short I ended up working in a
1:32
casino in Poland because my father was a
1:34
casino manager.
1:35
Um I have actually found a picture very
1:37
recently of me being 7 years old at the
1:40
roulette table at a staff party
1:41
obviously no real money involved but uh
1:43
my father was able to bring me in to
1:45
show me the environment. Uh I was
1:46
studying at the time and my parents had
1:48
a very strict rule of if you don't get
1:51
into the free public university and you
1:53
have to pay for education you're going
1:54
to pay for it yourself. Therefore I had
1:57
to get a job and instead of waiting
1:59
tables or working behind the bar, my
2:01
father told me at least in the casino
2:03
you'll develop a profession that you'll
2:04
always have a fallback on. So, that's
2:06
how I ended up there, but he did give me
2:08
a very strict condition of you can only
2:10
work here for 1 year cuz it's not a
2:12
friendly and inclusive environment.
2:14
You're going to experience a lot of
2:15
challenging behaviors. So, after 1 year,
2:17
unless you quit yourself, I'm going to
2:19
fire you personally.
2:21
>> Yes, and it was quite a Yeah, it wasn't
2:22
a next I know you mentioned in the book
2:23
as well that you were studying
2:24
journalism at the time, but unlike
2:26
fellow students who work behind a bar,
2:28
you were studying and then you were
2:29
working in the casino and you're going
2:31
to sleep and then you're going back. So,
2:32
straight away you were having that
2:33
mindset of balance everything without
2:35
burnout, but also ensure that you were
2:37
doing everything possible to advance
2:38
your career.
2:39
>> Absolutely, but I think at the time it
2:41
wasn't yet a mindset or it wasn't
2:43
intentional. It was the lack of choice,
2:45
right? Because no one ever told me that
2:47
you could do it any other way. My
2:48
parents told me I had to work. So, I
2:50
went to work, but at the same time
2:52
coming from Eastern Europe where most of
2:53
my friends were studying two or three
2:55
faculties at the same time, not studying
2:57
wasn't an option. So, this was just
2:59
something that I saw as a natural
3:01
consequence of my
3:03
sort of interesting social life at high
3:05
school before I got to university. And I
3:07
did what I had to do.
3:08
>> And then from there, I know in the book
3:09
you mentioned that you spotted I think
3:11
it was an advertisement in the casino
3:12
about going to the UK and people said it
3:13
was a scam, don't do it, but you were
3:15
like, I'm going to give it a go. And
3:17
it's safe to say that your chapters or
3:18
your time in the UK in the beginning was
3:20
quite again colorful. It started off
3:22
with you believing you're going to get
3:23
on St. James's, but you ended up
3:25
somewhere quite a bit different, wasn't
3:26
it?
3:27
>> Uh quite a bit, yes. I learned I ended
3:29
up in
3:30
a close proximity of Leicester Square
3:32
and working in a casino that also means
3:33
you're finishing your shift around 4:00
3:35
a.m., which is not the best time to find
3:37
yourself in that part of London. And
3:38
then I had to travel from there to all
3:40
kinds of destinations around London on
3:42
night buses including Camden and
3:44
Stratford, which if you're talking 20
3:46
years ago, you can imagine probably not
3:49
the safest place to find yourself at
3:51
5:00 6:00 in the morning on your own on
3:53
a night bus.
3:54
>> Yeah, definitely. I remember I myself
3:56
got on the 25 to Ilford. We've We've all
3:58
been there, haven't we? Yeah,
3:59
definitely.
4:00
>> So, you could relate to my description
4:01
of what was going on on that bus.
4:03
>> Yes, I think every Londoner could
4:04
probably relate to that one or anyone
4:05
who's lived in London could definitely
4:07
relate to that one. It was very
4:08
interesting to me about
4:10
how you find yourself over here because
4:12
it was due to Poland just becoming the
4:13
EU and people who were Polish used to
4:15
have a lot more training and that was
4:17
something that you brought over here as
4:18
well going into straight straight away
4:20
being a professional environment.
4:21
>> Yes, so from one perspective I would
4:23
feel that our training was a little bit
4:25
more rigid in Poland because we had
4:27
different types of games and that
4:28
required slightly different skill set,
4:30
but on the other hand we were lacking
4:32
some skills because the UK dealers were
4:34
very versed in customer experience and
4:37
you know, the right courteous
4:38
conversations at the tables. We had none
4:40
of that. We were very much like place
4:42
your bets, deal, good night. So, it was
4:46
a mix, but I think we were essentially
4:48
brought here as labor that was more
4:51
cost-effective however you look at it,
4:53
you know.
4:54
>> But during that time you were also very
4:55
adamant in what you knew you were worth
4:57
because you refused to stay in
4:58
accommodation with five to seven people.
5:00
You said straight away that's not okay,
5:02
that's not happening.
5:03
>> Yes, I think there were two types of
5:04
Polish people that came at that very
5:06
early wave of immigration. There were
5:08
people that came here to
5:10
work as hard as they can and live as
5:12
cheaply as they can, save a lot of money
5:14
and go back to their lives back in
5:16
Poland. I came here to fully monetize on
5:19
opportunity that London presented and I
5:22
was 21 at the time, you know, and I
5:24
wanted to live the urban life of a
5:27
Londoner and that didn't mean that I
5:29
wanted to share the room with four other
5:31
people.
5:32
>> Yeah, for sure. I think a lot of the
5:33
people who come here to London would
5:34
agree with you on that one. And then
5:36
let's fast forward a bit cuz then after
5:37
you came and worked at Heathrow for a
5:39
while, you went on the cruise ships
5:40
which started off with you sadly losing
5:41
your luggage. But beyond that you sort
5:44
of, which I found really interesting,
5:45
that you sort of spotted this is a
5:46
different environment to what you were
5:47
used to. Even in the UK being
5:49
entertainment.
5:50
Being on the group cruise ships from my
5:51
interpretation of reading the book, you
5:53
weren't just, you know, a dealer. You
5:55
were an entertainer in all different
5:56
ways on that cruise ship.
5:57
>> Yeah, absolutely. Um I think the main
5:59
differences between Poland and UK and
6:01
the cruise ships is that in Poland uh
6:03
people are rude. There is no other word
6:05
for this. Then in the UK um the
6:07
companies that you work for, they
6:09
maintain your sense of dignity because
6:11
there is some level of code of conduct
6:13
when it comes to player behavior. On the
6:15
cruise ship, there is that, but there's
6:16
also different type of customer because
6:18
they are there for entertainment. They
6:20
are there on holiday. They're not there
6:21
to win. They don't mind if they lose.
6:23
They are there to enjoy themselves. And
6:25
that changes everything in the
6:26
environment because you're stop becoming
6:28
the enemy. You start becoming part of
6:31
their ways of spending time, which makes
6:33
your job much easier and much more
6:35
enjoyable.
6:36
>> Mhm. Definitely. Yeah, I I remember the
6:37
chapters where people jump on tables
6:39
celebrate winning. And then you also
6:41
came across something on the cruise
6:42
which I thought was quite interesting
6:44
where they said they don't hire Polish
6:45
people.
6:46
>> Mhm.
6:46
>> And you, you know, again, you went,
6:48
"Okay, let's see what I can do about
6:49
that. I'm not going to allow this this
6:51
um this perception to be true. I'm going
6:52
to prove that I can do it and ring the
6:54
bell for tips."
6:54
>> Yes. So um yes, I did come across that
6:57
uh objection at the beginning, which in
6:59
hindsight probably wasn't um you know,
7:02
politically correct from from the side
7:04
of the company.
7:05
Uh but it was true. They weren't hiring
7:07
certain nationalities because we didn't
7:08
possess the right cultural um sort of
7:12
attitude.
7:13
Um but when I was basically pointed out
7:15
that that was the reason why they had
7:17
concerns and I initially arrived with
7:19
exactly
7:20
well, delivering exactly on their
7:22
concerns, I set myself a challenge to
7:24
prove them wrong. So I did learn and I
7:26
will never be your,
7:27
you know, bubbly uh uh loud um uh
7:31
dealer, but I found my own lane to be
7:33
appreciated by guests with the type of
7:35
customer service that I could provide
7:36
around dealing cards.
7:38
>> Definitely. And you say yourself you
7:39
dealt with so different, you know,
7:41
customers from Arabian royalty,
7:42
celebrity chefs. So, you definitely
7:43
found a way to navigate each individual
7:45
person. And you think through doing
7:47
that, has that changed or sort of
7:49
allowed you to say shift how to speak to
7:51
different people and approach and
7:53
interact with everyone from different
7:54
walks of life?
7:55
>> 100%. I think it was one of the most
7:58
important lessons I took from that
8:00
season of my life, and I've only
8:01
realized it later in business
8:04
environments that not only I've already
8:06
learned how to deal with all different
8:07
types of people, but also I've learned
8:10
how to learn people really quickly going
8:12
forward and adapt to different
8:13
personalities as I come across them. And
8:16
that in business, and especially in
8:17
startup,
8:19
mattered more than anything that I've
8:21
learned at school.
8:22
>> Definitely. And then from there, you
8:23
went into online gambling at a time
8:25
where it was really starting to come
8:27
more into people's mindsets and also
8:28
regulation was changed, the law was
8:30
changing. What was that jump like going
8:32
from seeing customers face-to-face to
8:34
instead being behind a screen and
8:35
operating it through a whole different
8:37
channel?
8:38
>> It was challenging for me to start with
8:40
because I actually after spending times
8:41
in land-based and especially
8:43
environments where it's not just for
8:44
entertainment and saw people treated
8:46
very seriously
8:48
and observing some vulnerable behaviors,
8:49
I didn't want anything to do with
8:51
dealing directly with customers or I
8:53
didn't want to have much to do with
8:55
marketing.
8:56
I was I wanted to sit on product and be
8:58
busy with building features and things
9:00
like that.
9:01
And I initially started in poker because
9:03
poker again, that dynamic changes
9:05
because in poker the dealer isn't the
9:06
enemy, the house isn't the one taking
9:08
your money. Players are playing against
9:11
and the house is purely the facilitator
9:13
of that.
9:14
So, it was challenging at first, but you
9:16
know, I've come to realize over the
9:17
years that
9:18
every industry comes with its own stigma
9:21
and every industry comes with an
9:22
opportunity to find your way in
9:25
responsible treatment of your job. And
9:27
that industry in particular offers you
9:30
more of that opportunity than ever on
9:33
how you do marketing, what what features
9:35
you build, you know, what type of angles
9:37
do you focus on to sell the product?
9:39
>> Yeah. Yeah, I I like that point that you
9:40
made there I should say in the marketing
9:42
and finding opportunities but also
9:43
ensuring that you still are you know,
9:45
acting in the other's best interest
9:46
while also acting in your sales' best
9:47
interest. Definitely. And then from
9:50
there, of course, we're going forward
9:51
again, but you ended up finding your own
9:52
company Beyond Play.
9:53
>> Mhm.
9:54
>> And I read somewhere and I found it
9:55
really interesting that you built that
9:56
company to sell it. So, why did you have
9:58
that mindset that you were building
10:00
something to eventually allow someone
10:01
else to acquire?
10:02
>> Yeah, so look, it wasn't immediately
10:04
from there when I want to enter the
10:06
online gaming, there was another 15
10:07
years of corporate career and that
10:10
played out across four different
10:11
countries: Spain, Philippines, Malta,
10:13
UK. So, there was a lot of growth, high
10:16
growth, I would say, driven by ambition
10:17
and I would jump continents purely after
10:20
work opportunity.
10:21
So, when I founded my company, I already
10:23
had that corporate experience behind my
10:25
belt. Um, you know, I reached the level
10:28
of CPO at that point. I've been involved
10:30
in multiple M&As.
10:32
Um, and I've also done consulting at the
10:34
executive level.
10:35
And I think observing a lot of companies
10:37
around me, I realized that there are
10:39
people who are founding very successful
10:41
businesses
10:42
that are not
10:44
at least
10:46
at a glance, offering much more as
10:49
humans than I can offer. And I started
10:51
to think that if they can do it, maybe I
10:53
can do it. And I started to realize I
10:55
actually have a very diverse experience
10:57
because I've done both marketing and
10:58
product and tech and I have the
11:00
land-based environment which will give
11:02
you understanding of the end user.
11:04
Um, and all I was lacking was
11:05
self-belief. And once that early
11:07
conviction arrived from someone else
11:08
giving me that validation that I might
11:10
be founder material and that comes both
11:12
in terms of physical um
11:14
um mental support but also of funding, I
11:17
think that's when it clicked for me
11:18
saying, I I'm done working for someone
11:20
else. I want to bet on myself and do
11:22
something different and create my own
11:24
future to some extent.
11:26
>> Definitely. So, you knew you had all the
11:27
skills, you just needed this one person
11:29
to say, "Hey, go for it."
11:30
>> Yeah.
11:30
>> Which is great. Yeah, I mean, and then,
11:32
yeah, you guys got acquired in 202024?
11:35
>> 24.
11:35
>> Very quick turnaround. That Yeah, so how
11:37
was how quickly was that about? How did
11:39
it all play out in that in that era?
11:40
>> So, I I started the company in 2020, um
11:43
and I was working on it on a side gig
11:44
while I was consulting, um and I founded
11:48
it in '21. I actually started the
11:49
company right in the middle of the
11:51
pandemic, and uh I started raising money
11:53
right before the pandemic started, which
11:55
meant that I couldn't really stop it at
11:57
the time where no one was investing, no
11:59
one was leaving their jobs, no one was
12:01
hiring. So, I think it added to the
12:02
whole uncertainty around uh my idea of
12:05
becoming a startup founder. Um but yes,
12:07
it was acquired in less than 3 years,
12:09
and uh in those 3 years, I I always
12:12
laugh and say
12:14
more things have happened than to most
12:16
companies in 10 years, uh which is great
12:18
because it gives me opportunity to talk
12:19
about it for years to come.
12:21
>> Yeah.
12:22
Definitely. Yeah, there's definitely a
12:23
lot of stories that to tell beyond this
12:24
what's in the book. And then, just to
12:26
keep moving on, I know near the end of
12:28
the book, you mentioned, you know, about
12:30
being a woman in this industry because,
12:32
you know, it's fair to say there's not a
12:33
lot of women in this industry in high up
12:34
places, and you know, it's sort of
12:36
changed that narrative. You even have a
12:38
sense of there discussing the bow tie
12:39
you used to wear in a casino floor, you
12:40
know, having to go to state dinners,
12:42
debating starting golf. So, when did you
12:44
start to become comfortable or feel, you
12:47
know, I I I deserve to be here, I can be
12:48
here, you know, just because I'm a woman
12:49
in industry that's not very
12:52
has many female in there, you know? What
12:53
was that mindset sort of just coming to
12:55
you again?
12:56
>> Yes, I think that's why the book uh goes
12:58
against all publishing trends because
13:00
I've been strongly advised not to put
13:01
myself on the cover, uh not to be
13:03
accused of vanity sort of motivations,
13:05
but I really wanted this to portray my
13:08
journey with that one image, bow tie on,
13:10
bow tie off. Um at the beginning, I
13:13
actually didn't I I never felt
13:16
uncomfortable with men. Maybe it's
13:18
because I worked in the casino to start
13:20
with where customers, uh employees are
13:22
primarily male, so I was introduced to
13:24
the world of work in that environment
13:26
already. Um
13:28
but then I had to do some adjustments
13:29
because I had to learn how to deal with
13:31
very strong personalities, with big
13:33
egos, and especially when I moved to
13:35
product and tech, not being very
13:37
technical, I had to prove myself. And I
13:40
think
13:41
when I started to win first awards, when
13:43
I started to build uh product features
13:45
that caught attention and uh really were
13:47
regarded as top innovation of the
13:49
industry, I stopped caring about trying
13:52
to prove myself. I just cared about my
13:54
mission, but that strength and that sort
13:57
of belief in myself carried through and
14:00
I sort of never never got off that um
14:03
belief that I'm good enough to be here,
14:05
I deserve to be here, and every time I
14:08
was put in a situation of discomfort, I
14:09
would remember the previous situation
14:11
where it was discomfort after discomfort
14:12
after discomfort until you're
14:14
comfortable. So, now it's one of my main
14:16
mottos that I don't really believe in
14:18
imposter syndrome, I don't really
14:19
believe in not belonging to the room, I
14:22
believe more in paying the price for a
14:24
while of being uncomfortable until you
14:26
arrive at the place where you feel you
14:28
fully belong, and this is where you're
14:30
supposed to be.
14:31
>> And then just to end our conversation, I
14:32
mean, what what do you want readers to
14:34
primarily take away from this book? And
14:36
then, you know, what what's next for
14:38
you? You know, I mean, yeah, you started
14:39
company so it's all a book just
14:41
beginning really. This is it. This is
14:42
just the first steps. You know, where
14:43
where do you where do you go from here?
14:45
>> There are main two takeaways from the
14:46
book, and the whole reason why I wrote
14:47
the book is because when I first sold my
14:49
business, there was a lot of
14:51
uh behind my back type of talk of uh
14:53
that I got lucky. And for a moment I
14:55
believed this myself, but I think
14:57
writing the book was uh to some extent a
14:59
therapy for myself, but also um a real
15:01
validation of the fact that luck doesn't
15:03
arrive for people that sit still sit
15:06
still, and I have created a lot of
15:07
forward motion momentum to create that
15:09
space for luck to land. So, this is one
15:11
of the message I try to convey to
15:13
people. I don't believe in luck. I
15:15
believe in engineered serendipity
15:17
instead. The second message is a reframe
15:19
of uh of feel. Uh
15:22
as I talked about, I always
15:25
focus on the positive outcome.
15:27
And on the years after I realized that
15:29
actually is backed by neuroscience and
15:31
psychology.
15:33
And now I refer to this very simple
15:34
reframe of rather than thinking what if
15:37
you fall, always focus on what if you
15:39
fly, which is going to push you towards
15:41
finding the right solution. So these are
15:43
the two things I would want people to
15:44
take away from take away from it. Now
15:46
when it comes to what's next for me, I
15:48
think I want this to be a bigger thing
15:51
than just a book. I have a couple of
15:52
more books in me including the sequel
15:54
about the startup journey, including a
15:56
book about
15:58
you know, modern archetypes of witches
16:00
which I'm super excited about.
16:03
But I want to build an ecosystem and
16:05
I've already started that with a series
16:06
of dinners and sort of mentoring
16:08
founders. I want there to be a her play
16:11
ecosystem. Something that helps to
16:13
connect minorities with capital,
16:15
something where female founders and
16:17
early stage entrepreneurs in general can
16:19
find access to entrepreneurial advice
16:22
and mentorship, founder retreats,
16:24
events, you know, that's my that's my
16:26
goal for it.
16:27
>> Well, Karolina, thank you very much
16:29
joining me and discussing her play. I
16:30
really appreciate it. For more on the
16:32
story, stick with 6am.com.
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