Rick Tocchet's Job Safe? + Can Danny Briere Fix The Flyers? | BSH Podcast Ep. 116

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Hello and welcome to the Broad Street Hockey Podcast
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I am your host, Ryan Gilbert, joined by my co-host, Joe DeBalini here
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Joe, how are we doing on this dreary-ish Monday afternoon? Not too bad
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The good news, the great news is that the Philadelphia Flyers don't play hockey tonight
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We have an evening free to do literally anything else with our time and our lives
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Yeah, Flyers do not play tonight after ruining our weekend Saturday in Boston and then Sunday night at home against the Hurricanes
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0-5 and 2 now, so we'll dig into all that. We're going to try to be more positive, more constructive here on the podcast this week
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Before we get into the positivity, one of my friends who's a Maple Leafs fan, he lives in Toronto, he sent me a tweet of the Carolina Hurricanes, their account saying
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we in the past nine days have won more games in the city of Philadelphia than the Phillies, the Flyers and the Eagles
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so just a little bit of savagery from the Carolina Hurricanes social media team and uh boy they
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they earned the right to say that one yeah and that's something that brings up bring me to
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something I've been thinking like who's going to win a game first the the Flyers or the Sixers the
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Sixers open their season next Tuesday so the Flyers they got they got the Kraken coming to town
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they got Detroit in Detroit I believe on Thursday they have the Senators at home and then the
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avalanche at home so hopefully you can win one of those games we'll get into that later but um
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sixers are going to be taking things over here in philadelphia given uh given the state of the
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eagles state of the flyers right now philly's not doing anything the union are doing well
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everyone overlooks the union i'm not a huge uh huge union guy yeah as far as the uh the soccer
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is concerned but very happy to see them and everyone uh on the timeline when they are celebrating
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the union. But yeah, top of the show. Make sure you are
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subscribed to the Broad Street Hockey feed on YouTube. We're doing a lot of live. We're doing a lot of
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post games. Those have been good. I did one last night with Jacob. More reactionary
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More negative. More just venting there if you want to hear more of that
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And also subscribe to the podcast feed. Or get your podcast, Apple, Spotify, wherever else
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So it was a five-star rating and review. The Flyers aren't doing too well, but you can still support
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us. Support some independent journalism, independent podcasting. All of your super chats, all of your donations, all of your
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ad money goes straight to the people you see talking here. And you should give it to us
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rather than give it to... Bet it on the Flyers here, who are good friends at Fandle
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have that plus 480 to make the playoffs, which I was looking at last night. They're only
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four points back of a playoff spot, four points back of the Capitals, but they have played two more
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games than everyone else in the east besides the hurricanes and the rangers so um do they
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is there like a chart to plot like how much they've sunk in those odds over the past like two weeks
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just there are or you can look at you know micah as a chart daily he was never he was never higher
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on the flyers he was never close to 40 50 percent like um like the odds suggested but evolving
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hockey was also pretty darn low on the flyers uh those those guys were like yeah they're probably
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going to be seventh or eighth in the metro and i'm like what's going on here yeah well yeah and
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you know everyone wants to all right a team's doing bad winless team easiest thing to do is
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fire the coach because you can't you can't fire all the players you can't trade the players when
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they're performing poorly because no one else wants them so it's like all right well the easiest
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thing to do for for a team in any sport is like all right let's fire the coach let's reset things
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So let's see how we can go. But Tockett, second year of a five-year deal
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I don't know if that matters too much for the ownership. They want to see butts in seats
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They want to see cheering and not booing and some faint fire Tockett chants in the arena
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But Trevor Zegers voiced his support for Rick Tockett last night after the game
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Then Elliott Friedman talked about all the bad teams in hockey on 32 Thoughts
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He said, you know, the front office isn't considering a firing coaching change right now, but we'll see what happens
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And like everyone's pointing to, you know, this is kind of what happened in Vancouver as well, where he went on that PDO bender, got the president's trophy
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And then, you know, things went went to shit there. But this is this is the time when when the Flyers can kind of say that
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All right. You got the hardest part of your schedule out of the way
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The easiest team you played in there was, I guess, Boston. They weren't a playoff team
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Yes, they were. Yes, they were. They lost in the first round of the Savers
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Oh, no, you're right. Yeah, so all playoff teams except the Devils
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who are bouncing back, kings of the offseason. Now you get the Kraken
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Kraken are 4-2, I think, but two of those wins came against the Flames
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who are going to be awful this year. Also have no wins
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one of the other teams that has no wins yes yes um you got at the red wings who you know they're
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an up and down hit or miss type of team and then home against the senators who you had a good effort
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against um last saturday so you get them them uh or last thursday so you get on this upcoming
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saturday so it's like all right yeah we're not we're not thinking about it right now but if the
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flyers don't win a game uh out of those if they maybe get one undeserved win where joseph wall
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steals them a game and then just another few more bad efforts you could easily see next week you know
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Friedman being like all right Philly is considering a coaching change or Philly is like going
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trending that direction yeah seven games in a row sucks but that's not for a coach in their second
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year I don't think that's enough to warrant a firing this isn't like Laviolette got fired three
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games into the season or something but that was his third year behind the bench or whatever uh
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elaine was also ed snyder like it was if ed snyder was still around like he would he would have
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something going on more than signing michael bunting oh yeah um and then like elaine vignot
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he made it to early november or something but like like it was clear the writing was on the
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wall that he was done even though that was like his third season of however many years um but
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it's not time to fire the coach. It just... What happens if you fire the coach and they're still bad
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because the players just aren't game ready? It doesn't change anything. And who
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would you get? Torts? Bring back torts? Do you wait for Jim Montgomery to get fired
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in St. Louis? Do you wait for another coach to get kicked out? There's no
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good options to make a change in October. Yeah. I mean, the Blues wanted
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an Armstrong pretty bad, so I don't think they're going to They're going to fire him. They're rebuilding pretty nicely in St. Louis
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Joe Yerden wrote something up on Bleacher Report five potential replacements Chris Knobloch he was here as an assistant had success in Edmonton but everyone has success when you have Conor McDavid and Leon Dreisaitl
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Bruce Cassidy. We'll see about that with Babcock behind the bench. They're also a flying start
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right now. Evan Bouchard's been fantastic there. They also allowed like seven
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goals to the Vancouver Canucks. That's Oilers hockey, baby. Come on. Bruce Cassidy
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could be a bigger swing. Jay Woodcroft wouldn't really love Jay Woodcroft
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One of the easiest options, you know, just have Todd Reardon. Todd Reardon be the interim, you know
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until you find someone else to go along. You don't love it, but if the Flyers go winless in 10 or 11 games
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I think that's the safest option. It's like, all right. Is it? It's the safest
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Unless, otherwise, it's like, okay, we have to interview a head coach, like, immediately
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and know that we want to bring them in. Like I'd rather give, give Reardon the interim and, you know, maybe hire Cassidy or Knobloch in a few weeks or a few months if things don't change
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So my counterpoint to that is that we had Mike Yeo for almost an entire season after they fired Vigneault
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And that was maybe the worst season of Flyers hockey in recent memory, right
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Like they were horrendous. The team was worse. Like no, no doubt that the roster was probably weaker than the one they have now, or at least had less, less upside
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But that team was horrifically bad. And you're like, yeah, let's just hand it over to Todd Reardon
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Let's give it the assistant coach. Let's let him have the season. It's like, that's, you're, you're just punting
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I'm not saying give him the season. I'm saying, okay, if, if they fire Tockett, it's going to be rushed, a rushed move
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It's not something that Breer wants to do. It's not something Keith Jones wants to do. I think Keith Jones is one of the guys, big, big media buddies with all different connections with Rick Tockett
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So it would probably come from ownership or just pressure of not winning a game
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And then they don't want to panic hire somebody. But I still don't think that's going to happen
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I think they're going to win one of the games this week. And as much as we fault Rick Tockett, as last week we did, we did the who to blames thing
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And, you know, we talked about Tockett a lot, talked about the players a lot. it's just getting to the point where it's on the players
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And one of the guys, Trevor Zegers talked last night, he put his support behind Rick Tockett
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talked about how poorly he's been playing. Normally he's able to move his feet, make plays
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and it's not as easy for him. And he's one of the guys that I think the Flyers need the most
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The Flyers need him to either be that top six center option
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or if you're not that, you're steady on the wing, And then your top line center is Christian Dvorak
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So it's really a, they have to get something out of Zegers. And I think he is flying under the radar a bit due to, you know
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how well he played last year. It's, they need something out of everyone
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I like literally anyone on the team needs to do something. They're, they're down Travis Konechny
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which he's struggled to start the season to begin with, but he won't be back until this weekend at the very earliest
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um cam york i don't he's not on ir so he could come back at any time yeah and the flyers put
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helgegrance on waivers so maybe that means bonk staying up maybe it means cam york is back maybe
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it means risto's back but yeah it's just shuffling deck chairs right now it is shuffling deck chairs
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we we talked about it last week um and really the solution it's not sexy it's the only way out is
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through. Like they, they're not going to make a big roster shaking trade
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That doesn't make any sense. They're not going to fire the coach at the beginning of his second season
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behind the bench. Like you're kind of limited in what kind of action you can take at this point
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And you just kind of have to play through it and hope the players get their, get their act together and, you know
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do what they did last season. I'm going to qualify that The skaters need to get it together
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The goaltenders have been outstanding I know their stat lines don't look that good
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But if you watch the Bruins game That could have been like a 9-1, 10-1 loss
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Dan Vladar was standing on his head To make a lot of really important, amazing saves
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And even Joseph Wohl has had some pretty phenomenal moments They just have no support in front of them
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Like they're both injury-prone goalies, and they are dealing with an inordinate amount of shots
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because the skaters never possess the puck. It's not conducive long-term. So the skaters are the ones that need to get it together
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The goalies keep doing what they're doing. Goalies are somehow not being talked about in Philadelphia
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Goalies are the ones doing their job here. Joseph Wall stole the two points for them
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they're keeping the games much more respectable than they should be because the game like i think
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even like in ottawa or boston it was like it was like 2-1 and i was like okay it feels like it's 4-0 like it's just it's just how how much one one or two goals impacts this team and yeah you know
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slap shot here in the chat you know loki could see a player like sealer get into a fight and
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everyone decides we're a good hockey team now we haven't we haven't seen a fight this year i think
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Benoit had Benoit may have had had one in Ottawa maybe but like it was more of like a tussle yeah
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like something there has to be something I hate being like you have to do something something has
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to happen something has to change but show some fight you know Porto Martone got hit up high show
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some fight against Tampa Bay you're not winning that game like yeah and yeah you don't have the
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Laurier you don't have Hathaway Achari is not much of a fighter but like you have Seeler Benoit
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If Ben was in the lineup, drop the gloves. He sucks. He's not been good
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He'd be better in the box, frankly. I think the Flyers' defense would be better with him in the box
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Any sort of motivation to get from him fighting would counteract his negative impact on the ice
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But, like, Zegers signed a big contract this offseason. He's now the highest paid player in the team
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And he's the one. He's the one who should drop the gloves. Like, Seeler getting in a fight, sure, that happens
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I want to see a player who never drops the gloves just go and be like
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screw this. Travis Sanheim, drop the gloves. Sanheim. Find someone that isn't going to cave your face in
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Hold on for 30 seconds and show some fight on the ice. He's pissed off in his postgame
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Christian Dvorak could be a guy like that too. Just someone unexpected that's a veteran, get in there and drop the gloves
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Kate's fights sometimes. Kate fought last year against the Ducks. Like he's, he steps in there, but, but Zegras highest paid for player now Drysdale now the
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highest, highest played defenseman Cam York, you know, and that's the three friend, three
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friends there that like none of them are playing well. And I think that's the, that's the faction you maybe break up with a trade
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If, if you can find someone that wants them, like, I don't think you give up on Zegras
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right now, but Cam York, once he's back and healthy, he can be a trade piece package him
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with Tippett and to go get a center or something. But the blame it just squarely on the players now But I still have that in the back of my head where Rick Tockett hasn had lines together for two straight He hasn had one line together for two straight games outside of
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the fourth line for a game or two. Like it's just, it's, it's infuriating. The guys don't know where
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players are going to be. They don't know who they're playing with. It's just, it's just
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everything's in a blender. Yeah. Like again, the only way out is through. You just have to
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set some lines and then just stick with it for some, like a couple games, like let some things
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build, let them kind of get accustomed to each other again. I think about, this is a little bit
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of an anecdote, but apparently when I was a baby, I had one night where I was just crying my goddamn
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head off and my mom's parents were visiting and my grandfather comes out to my dad. It's like
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three in the morning and I'm wailing and he puts a hand on my dad's shoulder and says they can't cry
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forever and I am thinking for the same thing with the Flyers they can't be this bad forever it's
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going to end at some point the players are going to remember that the puck goes on the end of the
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stick and then you pass the puck to another player's stick it's gonna they're gonna remember
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what to do at some point but it's just it's excruciating in the moment but it is only it's
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the second week of the season and we can't be like tear it all down yeah it's we've seen stretches
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like this before last year in january that was because ladar got hurt i think they also had some
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other injuries in that span and they have injuries now but like that's not an excuse for for anything
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they were healthy to start the season that was their worst game of the season got just you know
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steamrolled by by the penguins seven nothing had some back-to-back overtime games
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they just had nothing to build on. Like the game in Ottawa, you could build on that
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but then you go into Boston without Konechny, without York. You have Helge Granz and David Yeracek
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David Yeracek's been better overall. Simone Benoit has been bad. I'd rather have Noah Juleson back
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Honestly? Yeah. I agree. But yeah, the only way out is through for this team
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and I don't want them to fire Tockett right now. I posted on social media over the weekend
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like firing Tockett gives the players an out in a way. It's like, all right, we're firing the guy in charge of you
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because you're not doing well. That's all a team can, like a front office can do
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But the players, they have eight goals. I was going through every goal they had
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You can remember all of their goals through seven games, like distinctively. That's not outscored 28 to eight
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negative 20 through seven games and there's a seven nothing in there that's a negative seven
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but negative 13 in your next six it's it's just a broken record it's just they have to they have
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to figure something out yeah i do they have the worst goal differential in the league right now
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it's got to be close i think they have to i was looking at it i mean their their shot differential
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is still like historically bad through this part of the season we mentioned micah earlier every
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morning after a Flyers game, he's sharing charts of their offensive and
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defensive zone coverage. Their expected goals for and against chart, and it's just
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barely on the charts. We're breaking graphs every game. It's horrible. If they were losing close games
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if they were looking competitive, and they just... Puck went the wrong way. That's one thing
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And I think we'd be a little bit more okay with that. They are getting obliterated in every aspect of the game
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Yes. That's the problem. It's not the losing that sucks. But if you were losing in a way that was respectable, okay
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None of this is, none of this is respectable. It's no insulting, embarrassing
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It's not that, you know, Oh, a flyers one, one around last year
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We talked about this before, like they went around last year. Teams are going to be coming for them
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you know they can't be comfortable the other teams you know respect to them but they're not
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winning the games the flyers are losing these games like the flyers are just not putting up
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enough of an effort to to to you know to win a game yeah they've been outscored 28 8 through 7
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games flames 27 8 through 5 games so uh flames could catch them i don't know when they play
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probably probably tuesday during this frozen frozen frozen frenzy going on on a tuesday for
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some reason ESPN loves the sport of hockey we can tell um that's what what is one line you would
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like to see put together have you thought about what what what combinations you would like to see
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so I did think that in the offensive zone Zygris and Miechkov together did have some
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some good possession but their defensemen were I don't know Benoit Yirachek they just lost
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possession as soon as the puck got rimmed around the boards like i i do think zegris and michkov
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together ain't a bad shout maybe put dvorak as their center or coots honestly coots is playing
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up the lineup has been been one of the the better flyers which is saying something captain man he's
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he's he's legit with that um yeah i so yeah let's say that coots with zegris and michkov on the wing
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Let's say that for now. Yeah, I mean, that was the Gertourier-Konechny-Michkov line
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is what worked during Michkov's rookie season. I think Gertourier, as long as he's playing decently
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or even playing well, he's a good guy to put with Michkov
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because Michkov gets into the zone, slows it down. Gertourier can get in front
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Gertourier still thinks the game very well. His body may not be able to react
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but he still thinks the game well. And yeah, I do want to see Zegers with Meechkov
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But right now, when really Zegers has no spark, putting with Meechkov
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I don't know if that's necessarily the best thing to do, but it can't go any worse
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And that's what I want to see. I want to see just a Martone-Zegers-Meechkov line
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Just completely loaded up. I don't know if Martone likes playing on the left side
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I think that's why they haven't played together yet. But Meechkov's been good defensively
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had a few good defensive plays in Boston. um that's why that's why flag now after after scoring that goal yep yep that's why i would
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want to put mitchkov and zekers together though mitchkov does have a spark so zekers is the kind
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of guy who's got the puck skills right why like mitchkov will find him with the pass and basically
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to be like you've got it now figure it out and being put under that kind of pressure with mitch
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around you maybe like again the only way out is through you got to just oh i'm in this situation
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and I got to stop thinking because I think there is way too much thinking going on on the ice
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They're like trying to look for the perfect play instead of just trying to make a pass or just put
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the puck on net. They're like, oh, we need to get this guy needs to go to this place and then I can
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get it to that guy over. And it's too complicated. Simplify it. Just simplify it. Get pucks in deep
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get pucks on that Shoot the puck when you can Chase the puck If you going to dump the puck in chase it don just like oh god dump it in dump it in smartly like dump it into where your guy can maybe like maybe win a battle
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whether it's the strong side corner weak side corner just just around the boards to
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win a battle the flyers they always seem to have like one of these like three on three rugby scrums
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in the corner i was watching last night i forgot it was on the power play when it was happening
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And they won that one, but they rarely win one of those battles
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They go in there, battle for 5-10 seconds, other team comes out with a puck, they're all exhausted
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they have to go change. Even if they outnumber them, I guess that's the only way
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that they won it on the power play. But yeah, I think get Zygris with Mietchikov and Martone
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or Mietchikov and Tippett or something, and you have a home game against the Kraken
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who Kraken aren't great defensively. You can get the best matchups you want to get on home ice
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and see if they can do something. Because Michkoff is still feeling it
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Martone's feeling it. Hopefully they can bring Zegers along with them. Tippett, too, I think, is still doing some good stuff
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He just keeps pinging pucks off the post. He might just be cursed for the first couple weeks of the season
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and then by the end of the month, Tippett will be fine. But, yeah, Kutz is going too
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What's with Noel Achari? I expected much more from him when they signed him this summer
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It's been really a letdown. He hasn't looked that much better than Garnett Hathaway did at this point last year
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That's kind of what I expected. As long as he's slightly better than Hathaway
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He almost had a career year last year at age 34. Had 25 points
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His career high is 27. I think looking at his stats two years ago, 12 points in 79 games
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and three years ago, seven points in 55 games, is more of what we're going to get in Rick Tocke's system
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where you're trying to win games 2-1, maybe 3-2. I think he's winning face-offs
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He's decent, 59% in the face-off dot. He's killing penalties. The penalty kill has been decent enough
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you know, thankfully due to the goaltending as well. So Nolachari might be the last person I'm complaining about on this team
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No, the last person I'm complaining about is our boy, Carl Grudstrom. Why was he a healthy scratch for two games
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Why was he a healthy scratch? Why are you getting Garrett Wilson in there? If Garrett Wilson is not going to fight
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Got to do it, I guess. I just had to, had to shake something up. That was the
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that was the answer. Yeah. But I don't know. I'm, I'm weirdly feeling okay going into this cracking game
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this is the Flyers first back-to-back home games of the season they were able to you know play
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Sunday night go home rest up here on Monday play Tuesday night and they know they can sleep in
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their beds Tuesday night and and go to Detroit on Wednesday like this is when they can kind of get
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things going and the Kraken are not they're Kraken are not a good hockey team they're four and two
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they did just get wins in Washington and in Detroit. But, I don't know, the Kraken are a team that you should beat
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That's a game where you circle that as, okay, a fan circles out like, hey, if I want to go to a game
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and see the Flyers win, let's go see them play the Kraken. A lot easier than the Hurricanes or the Avalanche coming up
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The Kraken are a team you should beat. I mean, sure, but Joey Decor is a pretty good goaltender
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and Philip Grubauer kind of rejuvenated his career last season. So, like, if you get goalied, you get goalied
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But you got to put shots on net to do that. You're right, the Kraken are not great defensively
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so the Flyers should be able to get some shots through. But, you know, if one of the quarter Grubauer just steps up
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like, what are you going to do? But that hasn't happened yet this year
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Every time I look at, like, the expected goals plus, like, for the Flyers, it's always like
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one. They have one expected goal and one actual goal. I think the Senators game was the only
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one where they actually had a positive expected goal. Too bad they got Olmark for that game and
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Sam Harrison was... If they had Sam Harrison for that game, they probably
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win that game. That was the only game they out-attempted the Senators 47-34
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and they had a season-high 2.16 expected goals at 5-on-5. Wow. Their other high was 1.6
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in the first game against the Hurricanes and then 1.59 last night against the Hurricanes
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Also, for as bad as the power play has looked visually, they've actually scored a couple power play goals
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They had a two-game goal streak with it. When's the last time
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that happened? When's the last time the Flyers had power play goals in back-to-back games
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I have no idea. Um, but wow, you know, maybe if they were playing better, we'd be like, Hey, maybe the power play is trending in the right direction, even though their zone entries are just baffling
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Yeah, no, the zone entries are baffling the dumping, dumping, like just every, every aspect of the game. They're not doing one thing. Well, besides goaltending, they're not doing one thing. Well, and that's the, that's the frustrating thing. Like there's nothing you can point to. There's not one line you can point to
28:04
They'll be like, all right, they're giving me confidence. There's players here and there
28:08
There's like Denver Barky had a great setup on the Dvorak goal last night
28:13
creating separation from Jacob Slavin, quite possibly the best defensive defenseman in the league
28:19
Like he, I don't know. I think Barky is going to go through his ups and downs as expected
28:24
These young guys are going to go through their ups and downs. But you need your best players to be your best players
28:30
Zegras, Drysdale, Konechny's out now. he still leads the team with three points but like Forster he's done some good things he just
28:40
has one goal he has one goal through seven games he's one of the guys we talk about him
28:44
Tippett, Zygris, Pichkov, Martone, these guys could score 30 goals at some point but
28:50
that has to be in an offensive system probably a power play that's clicking and what if they're
28:57
just not what if they're just 20-25 goal players especially on a team like this where you just get
29:03
get outshot every night. And you're picky about your shots, too. They are
29:09
way too choosy with the shots they're trying to take. No, I don't know, man
29:15
I'm open to a trade. If you can get Edvinson, cool. I'm down, but I'm not doing..
29:24
The Leafs traded Matthew Nyes for Kiro Marchenko. That's probably a win for the Leafs, but
29:31
also that doesn't feel like I don't know what the Flyers version of that would be
29:35
It'd be Tippett for, you know, another top six winger that just has a different skill set
29:42
You know, like it would shake up the lineup and you'd get a new player, but it might not actually be an overall improvement
29:48
to the roster. Well, yeah, there's not many players you can trade
29:53
We went through it last week. We can go through it again. Let's just go player by player. Zgris, you're not trading him
29:58
No. Konechnik, Otoorier. no move clause. They're not going to waive them
30:02
Tippett, 10-team no-trade list starting this year. You can move him. He's one of the guys going to be
30:07
in rumors. Dvorak, NTC, no one wants him. Noah Cates. Noah Cates is an option
30:14
Tyson Forster, you're not trading Tyson Forster. Noah Chari, you're not trading
30:18
Michael Punting, Grebenkin, Grunstrom, Martone, Mietchekoff, Barkey, and Wilson. That's your forwards on the roster
30:26
Tippett and Cates are the only two guys that could be moved
30:29
and might add value. Also, what is up with Noah Cates? He has been not good
30:35
He got benched. He got yelled at on the bench. What is going on there
30:42
I've never seen him play quite this poorly. Yeah, he leads the team
30:49
Expect a goal differential. 40.62. That's crazy. I don't know. Stick Forster and Cates back together
30:56
Get Forster and Cates. and I said it on postgame, get Tippett on that line
31:02
Tippett can get the zone entry. Tippett can let the board battle be won
31:07
by Forster and Cates. He can be a bigger, faster Bobby Brink type on that line
31:12
See what you can do there. But then the defenseman, Drysdale, you just signed, Sanheim, NTC, York, Risto
31:21
Seeler, Yerichek, Benoit, and Bach. What I would want to do is
31:27
if the players wanted to come here, which they don't, Larkin and Edvinson
31:32
try to get one of them for a York and Tippett package
31:36
Like a York, Tippett, and a prospect. See if you can do that
31:40
But Larkin doesn't want to come here. Why would he? Edvinson, he needs a contract
31:45
Maybe he wouldn't want to sign here. There's not many players out there
31:51
that are going to be available and want to come here. Yeah
31:55
No, that's why you don't just make a trade to make a trade
32:00
And I'm not worried about Breer doing anything reckless. I don't think there's been..
32:07
I mean, I guess you could say the Dvorak contract was reckless, but not in a let's just do something to do it kind of way
32:16
It resolved in a playoff series win. And you need someone to play that role
32:24
Because without Dvorak, your center depth is completely screwed yeah you can see the logic behind why they did that but
32:30
any of the things we've discussed them doing now unless it's for a player that helps in the future
32:36
as well as maybe right now it's reckless and it doesn't it doesn't gel with the philosophy and
32:43
the messaging that this front office has been saying ever since they came in uh like three and
32:47
a half years ago so i'm not worried that they're going to do something stupid and i guess the
32:55
frustrating part is we don't know like there's no good option all of this is just a shit sandwich
33:01
like we're just gonna have to sit here and eat it until the players figure out how to play again
33:05
yeah that that's why the easiest thing for fans media is like all right talk it head coach fire
33:10
talk because because you know that that could happen like for trade you have to be like all
33:14
right this this team has to want this player this team has to have this player available there's so
33:19
many ifs and you can you can try to do mock trades and you know both teams have to want these players
33:25
want to move these players so there's a lot of moving pieces and that's why it comes back to
33:30
fire tocket but with the reckless thing is would the dumb potentially reckless thing right now
33:37
would that just be doing nothing like is that is that briere briere has briere hasn't traded
33:44
a legitimate roster piece you can scott laudan sure but since like the like the frost farabee
33:51
trades like he hasn't made a trade we're like oh okay that's i guess the zegras one you trade
33:57
paling for zegras but you like you haven't traded a potential piece of your core yet like you
34:02
haven't made any sort of risk in a trade outside of the cutter trade which they had to trade him
34:08
that was what it was yeah like he did the best he could unfortunately
34:14
Brink for Yuricek I guess is a risky move but like Brink didn't have a future here
34:19
anyway so where is Brink in this lineup he hasn't he hasn't had
34:26
he hasn't been in this position before so this is where the pressure is on him
34:30
and he's preached patience throughout this rebuild that's been the whole thing is patience
34:36
You know, he did say they might take a step back. And, you know, it's good to know that internally they know that
34:42
You can't say that. But the reckless thing could just be leaving this group together
34:47
You didn't make any significant changes in the offseason. You gave him a little bit of hope with the Carlson thing
34:54
the Giroux reports, you know, that whole situation there. But it's just the same roster with Achari for Hathaway
35:02
and with Benoit for Juleson. a better backup goalie, but the skaters are all the same
35:09
And unless they come together and figure it out, it could just be going
35:13
down this path. Can you imagine the narrative if Claude Giroux was here for this right now
35:19
This wouldn't be happening if Claude Giroux was here. It wouldn't be. No, it would not
35:22
be. Absolutely not. I don't know. I think the rest of the... What would he
35:28
say? What would Claude Giroux do to make this situation any better? It's just a domino effect. Okay, you get Giroux
35:34
Drew in July, you don't get Carlson, but you still get a... I think also getting Drew would have had more dominoes
35:41
with a trade of another forward, probably. I don't know who that would be
35:46
Or, you know, you just start bumping the minors. You start Grunstrom in the minors, and Barky's on the fourth line
35:51
and that's fine. But if Drew's here, he's quarterbacking the power play from the half ball
35:56
The power play looks better. The power play's more confident. Power play has more than two goals so far
36:02
It helps put other guys in position. He can win face-offs. I don't necessarily worry about the room going back to be Giroux's room
36:13
No. Because there's not a lot of overlap there. Sure, you've got Couturier, Konechny, and Sannheim
36:19
The leadership group was there with Giroux. But if Giroux was going to come in, he was going to take a step back
36:25
and be the veteran guy that would only step up in the room if he had to
36:30
That's kind of how he led anyway. It'll be more of more of, you know, just more structured
36:36
Yeah, exactly. No, but to answer your question, what's more reckless? You're damned if you do and damned if you don't
36:42
If you do nothing, well, then we're just going to have to. This is going to be a long, shitty season
36:49
If you make a move just to make a move, then that is how you make big mistakes that can really, really mess up like a team for years. Right
37:01
Like, we just saw Shane Gossespierre own the Flyers twice, paying to get rid of that guy
37:08
And they've been looking for that exact guy ever since they traded him away
37:13
Like, it's, if you make a stupid move just because you feel that you have to, then it will blow up in your face
37:22
So like I don know Like there is no answer here except throw up your hands and say I don know guys score a goal Win a puck battle Do literally anything
37:36
Complete a pass. Complete a pass. Don't give the puck away so many times. It's all the veteran guys with the giveaways, too
37:43
That's the annoying thing. The Bonk giveaway last night, I don't even put that on Bonk
37:48
There were turnovers in the zone before that led up to that
37:52
But like this, this team has, I think second in the, in the league in giveaways, the Bruins lead, lead the league in giveaways
37:59
And we saw how that went on Saturday, but like, is there a player that you would, you could see being available that you would want to trade for
38:09
On another team. Jeez. No, like I, I, I mean, yeah, sure
38:18
If Connor McDavid's like, okay, the Babcock thing was a mistake. I want to get out of here. but he's not going to come to Philly no
38:24
actually available I don't know there's no one else that we know
38:31
to be available outside of who we've already discussed like yeah unless some other player just decides to
38:41
revolt against their management and says I'm not playing another pull a Patrick
38:45
Wah and just say I'm not suiting up for you for a game ever again but
38:50
it's early. Maybe by December that does happen and you can make that trade, but
38:55
no team in the league is going to want to make that big of a move
39:00
this early on. The Flyers stink, but other teams want to see how their
39:09
rosters gel after a month. They don't want to make snap decisions either
39:14
Yeah, and big trades don't happen this early in the season. And that's why the Red Wings would be such a good fit
39:21
because the Red Wings are kind of going through their own turmoil. But you got the player empowerment
39:26
Larkin's not going to come here. Edvinson's not going to come here. Well, Edvinson might
39:31
Edvinson might. Edvinson, I think, is a swing that I would like to see the Flyers take
39:35
I would send Cam York back to Michigan, do a York, either Tippett or Cates, and whatever the Red Wings value
39:44
No Martone, no Mijkoff, no Forrester. obviously none of those guys but like send them nesbit nesbit going up he's at he's at michigan
39:54
right now i mean i think i think the sticking point from what i've read about the edvinson
39:59
situation is the term like he wants to go for a shorter term contract because that's
40:04
if the cap is going to keep ballooning you want to get a second crack at that money right yeah um
40:10
and the wings want to go longer term and he's like i don't i don't want to sign a long-term
40:15
contract unless you're going to pay me a whole lot more money you know um i think the flyers
40:20
would be totally fine to sign him to a four-year deal they just did that with zegris and drysdale
40:24
yeah york got a five-year contract kate's got a four-year contract um the only player who got
40:31
a big long-term deal is forrester and i guess you could say tip it but that was that was before the
40:37
league cap structure was realigned yeah yeah and like what what would detroit want for advenson
40:46
advenson because they they want a lot it seems like they like they want a comparable you know
40:52
former top five top ten ten pick and the flyers don't david you're a check yeah david you're a
40:58
check we're gonna be david david you're a check and uh who else is it was the former former topic
41:02
I don't know, but like probably like, like I said, York. And that's, that's just us trying to be like, okay
41:09
these guys have value, like probably more, less value than we think, but like York, Tippett, Cates
41:15
Luchanko, Nesbitt, some sort of package of those three could get Edvinson
41:21
but then you're just replacing York with Edvinson, which like Edvinson is better than Cameron
41:25
Like no, no doubt about it, but yeah. At worst, he's just bigger Cam York. Yeah
41:30
Then you have Edmondson and Sanheim as kind of your top two guys in the top two pairs
41:35
If Risto's healthy, if Drysdale turns it around maybe with a wake-up call, that could be the thing
41:44
The player I want to go for is Elias Pettersson. He has off to a fantastic start this season, which makes me wonder if the Canucks kind of told him
41:54
like, hey, we're getting some calls on you, but you don't have the value right now
41:59
to trade you for the package we want. You're making $11 million
42:05
That's a little bit more than we want to pay right now. We want to cut costs
42:10
But then it's the whole Rick Tockett drama. We know Rick Tockett, Elias Pettersson, JT Miller
42:16
how things went in Vancouver there. I think beyond Tockett, I think the front office looks at Elias Pettersson
42:22
and thinks, yeah, you can't win with that guy. Like they like even before Taka would have arrived
42:27
I think they see Elias Pettison and they're like, yeah, you can't you can't win. You can't win in the playoffs with that guy
42:33
Yeah, stupid. But then you just yeah, then you're then you're just waiting for the next player, like you said, to become available in December or whatever
42:42
And the Flyers have to turn things around to be a destination by December
42:48
And who knows is if that is even going to happen. This could just keep snowballing, spiraling out of control
42:55
You fire-talk it, you do whatever, and nothing changes. And this is just the Flyers' step-back year where they get another
43:03
hopefully, top 10, top 5 pick, be able to add another prospect
43:08
another impact guy that can play next year or in two years. But just to respond to the chat, my idea was you fire-talk it
43:15
and you trade for Pedersen. And it's kind of like, okay, we had a chance to go get this guy
43:21
who can be a 1C in this league. We had to make a hard decision, but you don't get a chance to get these premier players too often
43:28
But I do agree with you that this front office probably doesn't want Pedersen to be the guy they trade for
43:37
But it comes down to cost. I don't know what they would want
43:41
I don't want to trade a first-round pick unless it's top 10, top 15 protected
43:45
and Vancouver probably doesn't want that. I was looking back at who the Flyers took ahead of the Canucks at times in the past few years
43:54
I think Nesbitt was taking a few picks ahead of them. So maybe like a Nesbitt bonk or like a... Okay
44:04
Whoa. This is... Well, I'm just trying to think of prospects. Because the Canucks are one of the few teams that would want futures
44:12
And if you're not giving a first-round pick, you have to give up former first-round picks
44:17
that have that potential. Well, Pedersen has a full NMC, so he has some pretty serious control
44:25
over where he goes in the first place. Yeah. That's why, like I said, talking about these trades
44:31
it's just a pipe dream. It's a pipe dream. Like, all right, in this world
44:36
let me go on my NHL 27, load up the GM and see what on their trade block
44:42
see what they want, see what I can do. But it's not that easy. It's not that easy
44:46
Also I just I looking up a last Patterson playoff scoring record So in the 1920 season where it was like the weird playoff format for the COVID bubble playoffs 18 points in 17 games Not bad And then in 23 the big talk of year he had 6
45:10
So it's not like he disappears in the way that Brady Kachuk disappears
45:14
in the playoffs. It's just a hockey man thing. But he's not the guy you want
45:22
He's just the best potentially available guy right now, which could be a reckless move
45:29
depending on the package that the Canucks would want. Could be a reckless move
45:33
And then you have him for $11 million until 2032, which could be 11.6 million to be exact
45:42
And he's 27. He's probably still in his prime, going on the downside of his prime
45:48
and I also don't know how much that fixes this roster. You put him at 1C and you have Dvorak 2C, Cates 3C, Couturier 4C
45:59
That looks better, but what are you giving up? And the Canucks probably aren't going to want to do it anyway
46:05
Also, the wingers on this team are playing like garbage. I don't know if adding Elias Pedersen fixes the wings thing
46:11
So we just keep coming back to the beginning where it's like there is no solution available to us right now
46:18
There are no players to trade for that fix this immediately, though there are players that you could trade for that are good long-term solutions
46:26
You can't fire the coach because there are no other coaching options, and that would be such a panic move to the highest degree and would be giving way too much
46:35
It would cede too much power to the players in the locker room. so
46:40
like if there's something going on behind closed doors that we're not privy to they gotta work
46:46
that shit out like yesterday maybe you mentioned it earlier this is their first time they've got back to back
46:52
home games maybe today's the day that or Wednesday maybe is the day that they're like alright
46:57
let's hammer this out go watch Monday Night Football get together be like have your
47:04
California road trip in one night it's Canadian Thanksgiving living maybe they're all gonna like get dinner together you know yeah i mean half the team lives
47:12
at lives with trevor zegers so i'm sure he'll be he'll be hosting something but can you imagine how
47:17
awkward it must be to like all go home together and be like dog we suck just hanging around like
47:24
man we're terrible what the hell yeah it's rough but maybe this is just the the step back year and
47:30
it's the year where you're like all right but even if you go down that path if if you're like all
47:35
right we're not making the playoffs who are you selling like you get risto healthy maybe you
47:40
trade him for sure you get a first round pick for him or you get a you know a young roster player
47:45
for him what then it becomes okay what forwards what is our core moving forward and what can we
47:52
afford to trade and then you see someone like like tippet or kate's go like valuable because i like
47:58
grunstrom's on an expiring contract so maybe you trade him yeah you could trade grunstrom like maybe
48:03
achari at 50 and you eat it for a year like it did with garnett hathaway you know like there there
48:09
are sale options it's just they're not they're not valuable sell options outside and then the
48:18
domino effect of that is you're then either getting more plugs like michael bunting or
48:24
calling up halgegrons or you're rushing your kids to the nhl which the flyers don't want to do which
48:29
is why i think this could turn out to be just they're crying all year long they could just be
48:36
crying all year long joe yeah i honestly i think that might be what happens it sucks we're gonna
48:42
be here like close to american thanksgiving revving up tankathon and it's just gonna be
48:47
it's such a letdown because i thought we were past this i thought we wouldn't have to be
48:53
concerned about tankathon um i mean to be fair the canadiens have struggled out the gate too like
49:01
there are other young teams that made the playoffs last year that are like they don't look great
49:08
they're winning games but they don't look as dominant as they did last season um also you
49:14
mentioned calling players up early putting oliver bonk on the top pair last night was cruel and
49:21
unusual punishment. How can you take a kid fresh from the AHL who you didn't want on the NHL roster
49:29
in the first place because you wanted to give them some developmental runway in Lehigh Valley
49:33
and say, right, you're playing on the top pair with Travis Sanheim against the Stanley Cup
49:39
champion Carolina Hurricanes. What is the thought? I get that Benoit and Juracek are not great
49:50
but putting bonk in that situation is just a confidence crushing thing to do yeah maybe you
49:57
load up with the sanheim drysdale pair and hope they have a nice night against against the hurricanes
50:02
and you go sealer bonk and and benoit yuricek has sticks as your third pair hey i was right at the
50:08
beginning of the season when i said we'd see sanheim drysdale real early in the season i just
50:12
did not think it would be in this context yeah and they have to do something with the defensive
50:17
because I think that's maybe a little bit being a little bit overlooked
50:22
is how bad the defense has been getting the puck out of the zone and the forwards don't have a chance to get in on the rush
50:28
And once they get the red line, like, all right, I have to change. Let me dump this in and reload
50:34
And they just don't. We talked about it before the season, like, what's our greatest concern
50:39
And I said the defense, not because, like, if you have one injury in the top four, there is no one to replace
50:46
like there's no one to call up and replace those guys and now you've got two with york and risto
50:51
both on the sidelines it's it's really exposing their lack of defensive depth right now it's not
50:57
a forever problem they've got players in the pipeline bonk is eventually looking like maybe
51:02
a top four d carter amico had that eye-opening uh world juniors over the summer maybe he can turn
51:08
into something competent a lot of people still like spencer gill like there are defensemen in
51:13
the pipeline that could come in and be respectable four or five defensemen but they're not here now
51:19
they're not ready and the options the flyers do have are not good enough no that's why it's just
51:27
like maybe brea just i was like all right we're gonna we're gonna wait out this year and yeah i
51:32
think then it comes down to ownership whether ownership gets behind that it's like all right
51:36
we can we can let's find a plan where this year isn't completely a write-off and we can either
51:41
make a trade to get some other young pieces to grow with this roster
51:47
Maybe they trade a top five draft pick for, like, I wouldn't say Bo Byram
51:51
I thought that was just a baffling move by the Blackhawks. And I don't know if it's going to work out
51:57
But, you know, maybe next summer if the Flyers have a top pick, they can be like, yeah, we don't want a prospect
52:04
We want a player. And they can move with that. Yeah, unfortunately, we can't just simulate the season
52:14
But a lot of fans are rightfully going to check out if this continues
52:19
And even if the Flyers are able to turn it around win a game win two games this league Let say they beat the Kraken they get rolling they go into Detroit beat Detroit 2 And then you know you still what 2
52:35
You're still behind the eight ball? Like, you're digging yourself a pretty big early hole that I don't ��
52:41
this is a historically bad start for this team, and I don't know if, like, even talking about playoffs is realistic
52:49
And then it's like, all right, who are we trading? Like, we just talked through. So it's, we're, we're just in purgatory right now
52:55
Yes, that's exact. Puckatory. We're in, we're in puckatory. Yeah. Oh boy
53:02
It's too early in the season for such bad puns like that. But alas, here we are
53:07
I know I'm seeing in the comments here about like the D zone stuff and it is
53:12
just, it is horrifically bad. Like they, but the forwards can't receive a pass
53:19
Like, I don't know how they've all forgotten how to lead a pass
53:24
The way you make a pass in hockey is you put the puck where your teammate is going to be because they're in motion
53:32
Meanwhile, I keep seeing passes get caught in guys' skates or behind them because their teammate isn't passing to where they're going to be
53:39
It's where they see them at the moment. And that's just, like, that's geometry, man
53:45
That comes back to, yeah, you mentioned the comments, mentioned the chat. shout out everyone there in the chat um we're wrapping this up soon but you know if you have
53:53
any questions for us uh send them and we'll try to yeah we got five minutes or so yeah we got a
53:58
few minutes here and we're we're just a broken record talking in circles at this point and
54:03
i'll bring up something that i'm gonna bring up until we see a change like the flyers forwards you need to have a line that knows how to play with each other through seven
54:13
games uh the most used line is achari katoria grunstrom at 23.8 minutes then you have connect
54:20
me to vorak mietzkoff 13.9 forster kates martone 13.8 like you just don't have forwards that have
54:28
been playing together often enough i know there have been there have been some duos that have
54:33
stuck together um i'm trying to get that up um from micah because that is what target likes is
54:39
having duos together but yeah with connecting her with none of these guys really playing
54:44
all that well like the flyers just they're just they're in purgatory like you said
54:49
spinning spinning their wheels and i don't know i but yeah there's nothing to do there's just
54:56
and also if danny did want to make a move other gms are not stupid they see what's happening they
55:03
see a gm who might be panicking and be like how can we extort this to our benefit exactly so exactly
55:09
Like, sure, maybe you make a move, and then it's like, well, we got extorted out of an extra prospect that we didn't want to part with because other GMs
55:18
It's the same thing with the trade deadline in Rasmus Ristoline. And last year, Breer came out and said, you guys all know he gets hurt all the time
55:25
Other GMs know the exact same thing that you do. Other GMs aren't that dumb
55:30
Other GMs aren't that dumb. They're not Chuck Fletcher. It's much like the Flyers
55:34
It's just a lose-lose right now. Like you can't, like, you can't make a panic trade
55:38
If you do, you run the risk of like giving up on a Patrick Sharp
55:43
like doing, doing whatever you consider there. And you're not going to get the right value back for him
55:49
You don't want to trade a draft pick unprotected because this could just
55:53
all turn to shit. Like if, if one of wall of the dark gets hurt with how condensed this
55:58
schedule is, like there's so many back-to-back, so many three and fours. it's just
56:02
it just could continue the rest of the way but yeah it's
56:09
when do the Flyers win a game when do the Flyers win a game
56:14
so they've got Seattle tomorrow, Detroit after that and then Ottawa and Colorado
56:20
Colorado here and Philly but at Ottawa no, Ottawa is home they're home against Seattle at Detroit
56:29
then home against Ottawa and Colorado. Gotcha. I think Detroit's probably the most
56:39
their best shot. I still don't think they're going to do it
56:45
Who's after Colorado? Then they're at Buffalo. Then they have the Ducks come into town
56:51
on a Saturday afternoon and then Columbus at home. Wait, okay. So they're seven games in now. Yes
56:59
The Ducks game would be what? Game 12? Game 13. Game 13
57:02
Lucky number 13, yeah. That will be their first win. And it's going to be the same kind of thing where a couple years ago
57:09
they went to visit the San Jose Sharks, who were winless through 11
57:13
and then they got their first win. I think it's going to be the Ducks. Yeah. Yeah
57:18
Well, by that time, Toc gets fired. There's a major trade made
57:22
Maybe there's another trade with a Ducks made, and then you have someone else coming in now that you can boo
57:28
Give me Jackson Lacombe. I'd take Jackson Lacombe. But I, much like this guy that shot here, they beat Seattle
57:37
I will continue to drink the tequila, laced Kool-Aid. Yeah, no, I think they get Seattle here
57:42
I think back-to-back home games, able to kind of settle in, get things going
57:47
Maybe you get Bristow or York back. You're able to go into that game
57:52
But for all that Rick Tocca says, we got to stick together here
57:56
stick some lines together let's see some consistent lines and if if the lines aren't
58:02
working for two games give them two games you know give them two straight games see what happens
58:05
and uh go on from there but i do the power play same for the power play units let them let them
58:11
build some chemistry together yeah martone finally gets up there for for connect me who's hurt and
58:16
martone snipes a goal and and then zegras goes down to the second unit yeah well that's where i
58:21
want to see martone i think i don't want to see him in the bumper i want to see him on on on the
58:25
flank there. He has the shot that the goal he has to respect. That opens up
58:29
passing lanes. That's the power play. Browning, the power play is shit
58:35
We don't even care because the Flyers can't do anything at 5-1-5. I will say, though
58:40
Vineet has inspired me to make some tequila cocktails alongside my dinner tonight
58:45
I'm always down for some tequila cocktails. Big bowl with like four straws
58:50
Yeah, absolutely. Give me a scorpion bowl. Scorpion bowl, yes. Yes, yes
58:55
Yeah, I think that's going to about do it for us. Like I said before, subscribe to Brossary Hockey on YouTube
59:03
We'll be going live if anything happens. We'll be going live if there's any breaking news worth going live for
59:08
I'm trying to do more post-games this season, trying to get up as soon as the final horn to react with you guys
59:15
Considering doing some intermission stuff, potentially, I want to find a way to be able to take callers
59:21
and interact with the chat and with the listeners more. Have you considered a hat in the arena so that you could film yourself
59:31
That's a good idea. I could get a microphone so I could just do it live in the arena. Do it live from the arena
59:36
The reception in there sucks, though. I try and post something on Blue Sky, and it's like 10 minutes of loading
59:43
Oh, yeah. The reception has not been great. And the flyers have been great, so that's very fitting
59:51
Once again, follow us on the socials. We are tagged in the Broad Street Hockey posts for this podcast
59:58
Thanks to FanDuel for responding. the show. Porter Martone, no longer the Calder Trophy
1:00:03
favorite on FanDuel or most books out there. Martone is down to 5-1
1:00:09
right there with Stenberger 5-1 and Gavin McKenna at plus 280. Three game points streak is all it took
1:00:17
for McKenna to get up there. McKenna's looking good. Hopefully Martone can
1:00:21
do something here to help the Flyers turn this around. That's going to do it for us
1:00:28
Until next time, Thanks for watching. Go Flyers

Rick Tocchet's Job Safe? + Can Danny Briere Fix The Flyers? | BSH Podcast Ep. 116

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