Creating a Roadmap for Your Business

Welcome to Sisters Inc., our podcast for and about Black women business owners brought

to you by Black Enterprise. I'm your host, Alisa Gump. Black women are the fastest growing group of entrepreneurs in America

And on every episode of Sisters Inc., we'll sit down with one successful CEO and share how she slays the challenges of being a Black woman in business

Today's episode is all about creating a roadmap for your business. We're chatting with Marie Denae, a walking wiki, as she likes to put it, for all things plus-size fashion

and the founder of the Curvy Fashionista, a media platform and community celebrating plus-size people with style

So welcome to Sister Zing Marie and thanks so much for sitting down with us

Oh my gosh, thank you so much, Elisa, for having me. Like, I'm really excited to chat with you

Well, I want to jump right into your background. When and how did you first fall in love with fashion

And how did you know you wanted to make it your life's work? Well, okay, so because I like to call myself a nerd, I've been working in retail since like maybe 15, 16. And I also was told the expectation of being the oldest grandchild, the oldest daughter, like, you're going to school

And in going to school, I knew like, okay, well, maybe I need to get a business degree

But then I fell in love with, initially, I wanted to be a psychologist

But then I found marketing. And so for me, marketing was like the psychology of selling

So I was like, okay, well, this is how I can approach it. So I started just working in retail and growing in the retail space

And then I stumbled, kind of tripped and fell into the world of content

like and this opportunity that was here that nobody else was presenting it in a way and from

there I just continue to take kind of leaps of faith that has brought me here so it's just been

kind of both how I was raised but also like allowed for me to marry my passion for like

learning and un-nursing and discovering things okay so you started the curvy fashionista back

in 2008. When you were founding the company, what was your dream for it? I've always envisioned the

Kirby Fashionista to sit next to like the who what wears the refinery 29s, but it being from a plus

size perspective, like I remember going to a some kind of an event where the founders of who what

where we're talking about like their journey. And I was like, that's what I want to do. I want to be

that business owner who's like running this media empire, but providing resource information. Because

one of the things I learned through working in retail was that information provide and

information and resource cultivates confidence and confidence then allows for people to explore

explore their personal style, explore what they, who they are. And it's no different for plus size

woman. We just need more resources and information because everything really pretty much available to

us is online only, right? So I wanted to kind of fill that gap, kind of bridge that void. And that's

how the Curve Fashionista got started. That's been like our impetus, like our core, and obviously what

I'm extremely passionate about. That's amazing. That's like a true mission to make sure that

all women, but particularly plus size women can feel confident to give them the information and

the resources to do that. Over these 15 years that you've been running the business, you've had

a lot of successes. What have been some of the highlights for you

Hmm. You know, it's, it's interesting when it, as a business owner, sometimes you can get so

focused on like a goal or a, like the next goal, the next milestone that you sometimes forget to

stop and explore or celebrate the wins. And so for me, I've been asking myself like what kind

of successes have really hit home for me. And I think for me, it's been seeing my community come

together, there has been one specific event where we had a cruise and this woman, we were going

around, how did you find out about this cruise? How did you find out about TCF? And they had come

on this, they had come on this cruise because one of their, one of their friends who was no longer

around had introduced and brought them to one of my events in the past. And she had passed away and

they were honoring her by coming to my event. And I cried like a baby because I didn't realize

impact community reached like the, I didn't realize that I've got goosebumps as I'm like

sharing this story because it is, it is in that moment that I realized like how much bigger than

myself it was. Like, I've always known that, but to see it like right in your face, like

they spent their monies to get on a plane, to get on a boat, to hang out with me and my crew for

for, you know, what is it, four or five days. That's a huge investment or huge commitment

You know what I'm saying? And so for me, I just felt so honored, so grateful at that moment. So

for me, like that is where I have found like one of my, my most recent highlights. And that was in

like 2018-ish. But that has been a moment that I'll never forget. Like I will always look back

on and I still am in communication with those women to this day, right? Like they became my

friends because I'm like, oh my gosh, I want to help honor your friend's memory as well

And so I think when we look at success as a kind of definition, like for me, I've been learning

right now to redefine success. For me, like success is peace. Success is a peace of mind

for me to be able to slow down that soft girl life, right? Like, and really just kind of just

exist without like the pressures. And so for me to get to a space where I have those things and

like each day become takes me a little bit closer to that journey because I'm trying to do one percent

more each day to bring me to that space. So I think it's more about a mindset than like a

destination. But yes, there are highlights. Yeah. I mean, I could say, oh, I was part of

I was a route 100. I was on route 100 from 2017 or 2018. But like, that is amazing. I was on the

list with Beyonce, like, woo, like, go ahead. But then at the same time, it's like, you know

those moments where they tug at your heart, you know, where I have events and women are coming

to me crying or their daughter, they brought their daughter and you see their daughter

transform and blossom. Like I actually had one person who brought her daughter one year

she was like, she's 13. Can she come? Like, is this okay for kids? And I'm like, sure

Like, so she came, she was a little quiet little one. The next year she came

brought her girlfriends had started a youtube channel and then like then i then fast forward

like two years later she's sending me in showing me her graduation pictures like seeing her blossom

because she was exposed to this community those are successful moments for me being able to see

how i'm providing resource and how that resource has directly positively impacted somebody else

You mentioned leaps of faith and even with all the success you had you also shared that for most of the lifespan of your business it been all organic growth and lots of leaps of faith No business plan no strategy Can you elaborate on that Yes So when I say I accidentally stumbled into this

I started off as a blog and I'm like an OG blogger starting in 2008. This was not a

there was no go to school to be a content creator. There were no classes in social media marketing

Social media barely existed at that time. So the organic growth, the growth of social media started, you started seeing certain frameworks being introduced in this space. And it was very much the wild, wild west. And honestly, it got me to where I am

But in order for me to get to where I need to go now, like now I'm at a space where I've been learning, applying strategy

I've been, you know, last year, I call it my year of foundation where I went through an accelerator program

I went through a business boot camp program to really give me the fundamentals of the operational side of business, the business of media

And especially because I didn't know what I was growing into. Right. I started off as a blog

I didn't know what Black enterprise like online was called. I didn't realize the word or the phrase digital media publisher

I would try to Google online media and Google would default to social media

Like trying to find what I had grown into was the challenge. But once I found it, I felt all these things kind of lock into place because now I could start developing and cultivating an ecosystem and to start to really learn and understand the business of media

And shout out to Alfred because he was actually a mentor in the accelerator program of mine where I was able to really understand my mindset shift and how it needed to change, to really understand the business side of media and how I needed to shift my mindset in order to really understand and kind of buckle down in order to operate as a media publisher

And so I think some things do start off organically. And there's that slight moment where this is like a hobby or, I don't know, you're just kind of floating around where it switches from hobby to business

And sometimes if you're not quick enough to catch that, you can find yourself not in trouble but challenged later down the road because you did not catch that little shift

shift. And that's kind of been where I have been in that realizing that was the moment where I

should have like buckled down and like started to learn a little bit more and approach this

with more of a business kind of mindset. There were things that I just could not

conceptually understand because it was so organic. And now that I know like, oh, I'm a media publisher

now that I know I have an ecosystem of resource so I can send out an email and ask questions and

get direction that I need to. That has been so rewarding, so fulfilling, and extremely motivating

So Leaps of Faith got me here, but what's going to get me to that next level is really

the strategy, the business foundation, and the ecosystem in the community that I am nurturing

and developing now. For our listeners, when you shouted out Alfred, yes, that's Black Enterprises

Executive Vice President Alfred Edmund Jr., who has been one of your mentors through the

Bomisi Accelerator that you mentioned. But as you're talking about realizations and about doing

the foundational work, looking back, what are some of the signs that you could see in the way that

your business functioned that let you know that there were cracks in the foundation, so to speak

week? Sometimes it's budget, right? Not knowing how to anticipate or build a budget because yes

you could put numbers on a spreadsheet, but there is strategy and there is insight and

information that goes into the creation of a budget, the mindset. So not only was I going

through this accelerator program, but I also had my bookkeeper girlfriend sit me down and break

down the ins and outs of an operational budget and how to approach it. And one of the things

that Alfred had said that was the most mind-blowing kind of piece that really opened and blew my mind

he said, Marie, you have been creating content to create revenue, but you need to create revenue

to create content. And I sat with that and I was like, hell, okay. It started to make sense because

for so long, there was only creating content to create revenue, because you were just creating

content, not knowing that it could create revenue. But now I had to shift that mindset. And so it

allowed for me to even when I approached my operational budget, like, I could put down

revenue sources, but I wasn't leading with expensive, right. So I had to and I didn't

realize or understand certain things. I just, it didn't click for me, but once it did, I was like

Oh, okay. This is what I have been missing all these years. Right. Um, this is what I've been

missing journey of understanding the operational. So sometimes you'll feel like you need to grow

and you kind of just start reaching. So the next thing is like, when you feel like you need to

grow and you start reaching for help, however you can get it, that's not how you're supposed to do

it. Right. And, but that is kind of the organic way of just reaching out for help. However

just as important to have a game plan for growth. And I didn't know that. And because you're in it

and you're so entrenched, you stop and look up, you're like, how did I get here? Like, where

how did I, you know, I didn't think about, I didn't do a, a people plan. I didn't do a

growth plan strategy. I didn't sit down and do these things. And so by the time I realized

I'm like, oh, that is where I messed up. I'm a Virgo. So I'm going to always yze things

I'm always go back and be like, this is where you messed up, Marie. Financial planning

like that operational budget, that is key because that is where mistakes are made. That is where

it directly impacts the people, your freelancers, your contractors, like your team members. And

like, that is where you really have to be like, realizing like, this is a business, not a charity

You also have to learn how to hold yourself accountable. Like, for me, I may care about you

and really want to make sure you're good. But I also have to learn how to hold you accountable

right so it's about learning how to hold your team members accountable and not be afraid of

being the quote-unquote bad person or the mean person and that is something I had to learn how

to let go of especially like through therapy and all of these like fun tools because that acceptance

piece that me for me dealing with abandonment and seeing how abandonment showed up as a business

owner for me and how my people pleasing kind of actions created more issues and problems

in the business. So it's really important. And I'm kind of taking you guys through like the multiple different moments of realizing

but it's really important that you recognize, give yourself grace, but also like give yourself

space to learn, apply, and 100 with yourself. Because we can sit here and lie to ourselves all

the time, but like the reality is like you're not going to grow unless you actually apply

create, pause, take the, get the strategy, get the game plan. I mean, we saw with Beyonce in her

renaissance, in her movie, she said it took four years to plan her tour. Four. Four

I like if you took four years I can take a year or two to plan these ideas that I have Like for some reason in my head I like I got to hurry up and do it And then I create unnecessary pressures unnecessary stress unnecessary actions on myself

because I feel like I have to hurry up and get it done. So that's my very long-winded answer

What would Beyonce do? That's a whole new approach to business. I mean, she's definitely, you can love her as the artist, but if you pay attention to

her as the business owner, there are so many gems that drop down. So I really appreciate that you're starting to get into the things that you had to learn

about yourself and especially how you as a person related to you running your business

Can you share what that process was like for you of stopping to create a roadmap and especially mid journey since you were already an established business

I mean, was there any amount of sort of it's too late for this

I'm embarrassed that I haven't done this already that you had to deal with or was it just let me get to work

um so I actually laugh about this but it was kind of like

God universe spirit ancestors whomever kind of wiped my slate clean so sometimes

life will of course correct you if you don't if you aren't on the right path and about two and a

half years ago, that was for me. And I recognized that and I didn't wallow in it. I was like, okay

let me pause. Let me regroup. Let me like, you know, all the re's, rethink, re-strategize, like

rest, restore. And first thing was me like getting into this accelerator program allowed for me to

understand, I'm not alone, right? Like to understand as a business owner, I think there's

we put these kind of interesting kind of expectations on us that we think we need to

have or need to understand. So I didn't, I was very fortunate that I did not have that shame

I understood and already knew like I had made mistakes. I had messed up or I did not know

or, you know, like whatever those things were, I owned that. Right. And so I myself in trying to

find programs, um, networks, kind of ecosystems to help provide that support that I needed. And

because of that, I was able to start to get, um, the programs that were actually for me

So this BOMISI program, which helped me to understand the business of media and to help me have a clear definition of what I was growing into, which then allowed for me to find the resources, the webinars, the programs, all of that that I needed in order for me to start, you know, studying and really becoming a steward or a student of this new world

my mind was at that place to I kind of like was kind of forced

into that like okay I'm growing I'm doing I need information what do they

say the lesson the lesson shows up when the student is ready like

that was kind of like the situation for me the boot camp that I

went through it was a pace business boot camp and it was from the Madam CJ Walker

with Essence Ventures And so Essence New Voices or something, Essence Voices, but it was like a 14 week program

It was two days a week, two hours each day. It was intense

And one of those days was purely like academic kind of. And then the other day was more mindset and emotional support, right

So to help us with this transition and it was specifically created for businesses who were the track I was on for scale and I think growth and scale

So it was made specifically for business owners who were already in, who had already been established and they're trying to like really instill or insert some structure into their business

That is what I was able to do, take advantage of and apply and learn these strategies in the moment, especially exactly where I was at

Right. So I kind of call it like right now, my space of kind of the Phoenix rising from the ashes. These past two years for me have been really tantamount to like me understanding, kind of growing into who I'm even my next level of my purpose or, or my business kind of goals

You know, you kind of put it out there in the universe. I want to be that. And the universe is like, OK, we're about to move in and make all of this happen

But you've got to be ready. And I was receptive and I understood

So I was humbled and, you know, really understanding the meaning of gratitude, really understanding the meaning of mindset

and it allowed for me to take these lessons, apply them, and really allow myself the space for growth and for strategy to show itself

During that process of creating this roadmap for your business, what are some of the questions that you wrestled with

either about yourself as a CEO or about the business itself? You know, I asked myself, what does success look like for me

And that's where I really started trying to redefine that success word

What type of leader do I want to be? And what type of leader, what type of impact

Because then I started thinking about like, okay, well, I'm putting my crown back on like, what does that look like

What does that feel like? Right? Like, how do I want this to be received or shown

And then it's like, okay, well, what do I want to do in five years

Like five years from now, where am I going to be? How am I going to be

Why am I going to be? So by asking myself those questions, it kind of allowed for me to really do some, I guess

shadow work or like healing, self-healing, kind of addressing like insecurities. what do you call it, past traumas that have influenced decisions and choices I've made

in the past. So in this roadmap, it's like in creating this roadmap for myself, it allowed for

me to approach this planning process with more confidence and self-assuredness because I was

able to have those real conversations with myself that I probably have never had because I didn't

know that I could have them. I didn't know how to have them. And I didn't know what tools I needed

to make them. But now I have been exposed to some of those things and have been

very fortunate to have made like the connections, the realizations, and still be kind of chugging

along, making those like, um, certain milestones for myself. So it's really kind of been mindset

Mindset has been like that biggest key for me in this kind of in this roadmap journey

Yeah, those are great questions to ask yourself, what does success look like for you

What kind of leader do you want to be? And in five years, where do you want to be? How do you

want to be? Why do you want to be? Like, those are good questions. Thank you. You said mindset is the

big thing for you. So I will say after going through an accelerator, after going through a

business bootcamp, what you called a time of transformation, what's the most significant

change in how you now approach your business One I no longer rushing right I no longer like oh I have an idea let do it it now okay I have an idea Like let think this through What will be needed You know I take I ask my break those things down What will

be needed? Is it in alignment with our brand? Is it in alignment with our business objectives

Is it an alignment period? Right? So I, I, I slow down instead of just like rushing into something

And also for me, the mindset shift has been about from moving from scarcity to abundance and understanding

And what has aided that is really understanding what gratitude means and practicing and applying gratitude every day

And that has given me the space like when someone pisses me off, I'm not immediately jumping to defense mode

right I'm not immediately uh discounting it because like are you challenging me like

you know I'm not I don't have those those anymore right it's more about like hmm let me pause and

think about this like you know and then I can ask more questions before I give any kind of feedback

or thought. It has allowed for me to, having shifting mindset, like has allowed for me to

receive these lessons that I had, like, that has been given to me through the accelerator

through the business bootcamp, and just through my relationships with folks, I can take, I can apply them. Girl, even my blood pressure is down

If that is not the surest sign that you have found some peace, I don't know what is

I mean, like, that's like real, because sometimes we don't realize as a business owner, just how much our, I must add, I've also learned how to take better care of myself

because like that was like the first, the first major key for me because I had been so conditioned

or like used to like everything I get from the business, putting it back into the business

everything I get, I put it back in, but I didn't take care of me. I did not take care of me or even

learn how to prioritize myself, learning how to pay myself, learning how to allow myself to

not work Sunday to Saturday, right? Like now I don't even turn on my computer on the weekends

I don't even go into my office on the weekends. I don't even, I just, it's just, you know

I've learned how to establish and create boundaries for myself, right? That is so key

Like I read this book, Set Boundaries in Peace by Nedra Tawwab. Yo, that book

And she's a black woman, so she talks about boundaries or the lack of them growing up as a black woman

So it's like you see yourself in all of these different circumstances and situations, and you're like, oh, this applies here, here, here, here, here, and here

And it allowed for me to start learning how to feel more comfortable with establishing boundaries

but it even highlighted the importance of establishing boundaries for my personal life

with my business. Because I didn't have any hobbies. I was over here like Schmeagol from

my precious, like from the Lord of the Rings. He was a hobbit and then turned into this little

he had emaciated himself because he was chasing this thing. And the best ogy I could give is

like I, me, I was at Hobbit and I turned into the Schmeagol because of like pouring everything into

my business. I did not take care of me, you know? And I realized like, okay, well, what are my

hobbies? What are my personal goals? Like, you know, now I realized I love to read. I've learned

how to give myself back. A life. It sounds like. Yeah. Yeah. And so I think it's also key

too as a business owner that especially as a black woman business owner that we sometimes feel like

we need to take on everything and be superwoman and be like all these things and holding all these

bags or holding all of the weight on ourselves but like it can only go so far because you will

like life will stop you your body will stop you if you don't pay attention and so and those are

and those are some of the things that happened to me where I had to really just be like okay

better then like it's been I find myself feeling really blessed to be able to have gone through

that recognition and understanding about how to take care of me as a business owner because

if I'm not okay my business is not okay yeah and it's allowed for me to

to be more receptive, not so withdrawn, a little bit more engaged to reach out, be like

hey, Ms. Melissa, how you doing? Like, you know, to be able to engage with folks without feeling

fear or shame or any of those things, because I've been taking better care of me

Well, as someone who has now put in the time and the effort to get strategic about your growth

What's your best advice for other entrepreneurs about how they can be intentional about where their business is going

Two things. Find your ecosystem. Right. So like finding your mentor, finding your your business besties that that you that will hold you accountable, that will not BS you

Right. That was something that I was missing. I needed mentors. I needed to like really understand

I needed that ecosystem of understanding the space that I was operating or growing into

And then I think it's just as important to educate yourself, especially if you're growing

to a space that you don't know. You don't know how. There are so many different programs, collectives now for Black women business owners that you

can really afford, you can't afford to not know anymore. Right? Like, so for me, like, I couldn't

afford to not know, it was literally damaging my business. And for me, I had to like, instead of

like, don't be like me and wait until like, you know, life stops you, like be proactive, find

you know, connect with the local programs, connect with the city state programs with like, there's so

much resource and information, it's going to be important that you educate yourself, put yourself

in programs to enrich, to challenge, and to push you. So it's like, you know, education, like

you never stop learning. And in the way that social media has been going and growing

like, it's so important that you're able to adapt and know what's coming and be able to, you know

AI now right like AI for me AI is the new like internet like back in the day when people were

like what's this internet I'm not gonna right and then when businesses refuse to adapt to online

they kind of fell by the wayside like that's how I see so it's like okay well who's talking about it let me sit in on a webinar so I can learn how

these people are applying it like those are the things that you you have to focus on like that

education for self, for business, and for growth. Thank you so much, Marie, for sharing your small business success story. Everyone out there

please take a look at the company website, thecurvyfashionista.com. You can also follow

them on Instagram, Facebook, and YouTube at the Curvy Fashionista or on Pinterest and X at TCF

style. Check out the podcast channel on blackenterprise.com to find Sisters Inc. and other

podcasts from Black Enterprise writers, editors, and experts. Be sure to subscribe to Sisters Inc

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I'm Elisa Gumbs with Sisters Inc. for Black Enterprise. Thank you for listening