Up next in 10
No two days are the same at @Pellicerheredia, whether it's dealing with visas and immigration or some of the heavier criminal cases.
Ignacio joined Kal this week to describe one such case that highlights the importance of making a will and keeping it up to date.
It's an extraordinary story and well worth a listen.
If you have a will and think it may need updating, Pellicer & Heredia are currently offering BayRadio listeners a free 30min consultation where they'll look over it and advise you of any changes that may be required.
Contact them through www.alicantelawyers.es, where you can also watch back some of their previous webinars covering a whole range of topics.
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0:00
unfortunately we are handling just a
0:01
very interesting case very unfortunate
0:03
as well and very
0:05
sad um which is an elderly lady uh who
0:10
was in hospital and for some reason um
0:15
the neighbor organized U making a
0:18
will and obviously if you read the will
0:21
you could see it's not right you know
0:23
it's not is not very good she she did
0:25
admit that she had children which is not
0:29
true sorry so they would be her normal
0:31
beneficiaries her children and they
0:33
weren't included in the will in the will
0:35
in general terms you will always mention
0:37
who you where you were born who are your
0:39
parents who was your husband or wife or
0:43
if you were divorced two three times Etc
0:46
and
0:47
um so you will say a history in that
0:50
will particular will uh there was not
0:53
said about children so they said no she
0:55
had no children which is actually said
0:57
she didn't have children she didn't have
0:58
a children children so you could say
1:00
that's that's obviously is is is false
1:04
let's call it this way it's false um so
1:09
um so they did organize that was that
1:12
was after Christmas um organized they
1:16
did organize the will I'm still on the
1:18
criminal side starting the claim against
1:21
the beneficiary now so somebody actually
1:24
benefited who weren't those that were
1:25
meant to benefit from the correct she
1:28
did have a will which B basically she
1:30
only had a son and the son was in
1:33
contact with her so there was not any
1:35
family issues saying no I'm not going to
1:36
leave anything to my children no it was
1:38
not a case uh but for some reason she
1:41
was very old vulnerable she went to
1:45
hospital for some reason these guys were
1:48
helping well these guy was helping her
1:52
um during the last month on doing the
1:57
grocery so putting yeah putting our
1:59
Affairs in order as well obviously I
2:01
don't know how far they went well you
2:03
can see now yeah um going to their
2:05
property helping assisting and for some
2:09
reason the beneficiary did organize the
2:13
will being signed at the
2:16
hospital and uh obviously the sun didn't
2:20
know because you know he said well mom
2:22
we'll say one day one thing and then the
2:24
other will say something different
2:26
that's difficult towards the end yes you
2:28
know so so basically what happened they
2:32
did organize a will in the whe it was
2:35
said she didn't have any children which
2:38
obviously is
2:39
false there is a picture from Neighbors
2:43
with her brething with so with a mask
2:46
and everything so she was not in a good
2:48
condition I don't know the DAT the notu
2:50
went there um how capable she was to
2:55
make a will the translator was organized
2:58
as well by somebody else
3:01
and obviously the will said she lives
3:04
everything to the young
3:08
neighbor now when our client was
3:12
informed well was informed that uh the
3:16
mother passed away I don't know whether
3:19
exactly he was found out or he found out
3:21
that or just a few days after he flew
3:24
over from from
3:26
Australia and um and unfortunately he
3:30
didn't make it on
3:32
time and um the problem was that he did
3:38
uh well the beneficiary organized will
3:40
and he was the only beneficiary to get
3:43
it so this come was a bit of surprise to
3:45
the son who' flown from Australia
3:47
correct uh
3:49
unfortunately um AR CL has been going
3:51
around in circles unfortunately because
3:53
he went to one office and then another
3:56
and you have to think as well how the
3:58
notary managed to to go there to do this
4:01
um that will be the CR bound to make
4:04
sure that people are sound mind and body
4:06
surely that's the legal phrase is it not
4:08
when somebody's meant to sign um a will
4:11
well the the good question here Co is
4:14
how was she capable to sign at the time
4:18
so there is a lot of in I mean in this
4:20
criminal case there is no guarantee at
4:22
all on any further results because you
4:25
don't know what you're going to end up
4:27
with obviously we'll have to apply and
4:30
get the last will whether her signature
4:32
how was her signature um whether she was
4:35
capable according to doctors to make
4:38
that decision kind of helps if you can
4:40
check the date and you know when she was
4:41
in hospital obviously so um there should
4:44
be medical records that they be access
4:46
yes it will be yes that's part of the
4:47
criminal uh investigation that we will
4:51
achieve the the unfortunate thing call
4:54
is that you don't know how far you're
4:55
going to go how much evidence you're
4:57
going to get the good part of it is that
5:00
neighbors um are supporting this Theory
5:05
with our client who is his son he was
5:08
the beneficiary in the previous well if
5:10
you compare the previous well see so
5:12
there was there was an original well as
5:13
well she made a previous well and it was
5:16
perfect very well written and and and if
5:19
you see now the new version of the will
5:22
you could say something is being a rush
5:24
it doesn't look to you like it had been
5:26
put together by uh a registered um
5:28
lawyer perhaps
5:30
that's a good question that's a good
5:32
question uh that's part of my
5:34
investigation who wrote it looks it
5:36
looks a little bit strange yeah I mean
5:38
the first thing you could see is wrong
5:41
is that on previous will she always say
5:44
she had children right always now in
5:48
this one she didn't say that she said
5:49
she never had any children and she only
5:51
said she's got one marriage no some
5:54
before she had so you could see the
5:57
capacity anomalies anomalies now that
5:59
Capa that anomalies plus doctor's report
6:05
saying that she was where she was and
6:08
she was in a floor where you could say
6:11
is not people that are very well okay
6:14
you know like the neurologist and and
6:17
that that that Flor in hospital so so
6:21
the challenge here Carl is I mean
6:24
obviously our client lost everything
6:26
because when he came here he couldn't
6:28
access the property he couldn't do
6:30
anything because they will call the
6:31
police so you could imagine um and
6:34
unfortunately we didn't handle the case
6:36
from very first day right because I
6:39
would have approached in a different way
6:40
you know uh unfortunately he's wasted
6:44
bumping into uh firms a two years got
6:49
nowhere how can somebody not help him in
6:51
that scenario you would have thought it
6:53
would have been relatively
6:54
straightforward no well my my opinion
6:57
here uh is if you go to the WR people M
7:01
when you when you've
7:03
somebody you need to go to professionals
7:06
when this is such a difficult thing or
7:09
grave thing you cannot go just in the
7:13
corner you cannot go where you can't cut
7:16
Corners you have to go you cannot go
7:19
where there could be a conflict of
7:20
interest right you cannot go to the
7:23
lawyers of the beneficiary you cannot go
7:26
to the Friends the lawyers friends of a
7:28
beneficiary you really need to go to
7:31
somebody away independent and that they
7:34
know what they're doing they know what
7:36
they could do straight away or they
7:39
could um start a criminal action
7:42
straight away and blocking the property
7:44
being sold that's what should have
7:46
happened straight away yeah now what is
7:49
the issue now well obviously you've left
7:53
out in a position which is very very
7:57
weak and very unfortunate cuz you know
7:59
they sold the property all the inside
8:02
history of the family is gone wow so
8:06
it's quite heavy you know it's quite I
8:08
would say this is one of the um
8:11
strongest cases from a will point of
8:14
view that I've seen to this extreme call
8:17
to to this extent of crime yeah because
8:21
the noty went there and probably made a
8:24
few questions and she said these but she
8:26
was not really capable to make decisions
8:29
but the not went as far as they did well
8:32
they allowed the new will to be signed
8:34
so correct and that's the number one
8:36
problem now whether she was capable she
8:39
knew what she was doing in a hospital in
8:42
that floor so is that as a lawyer is
8:44
that what you have to prove to the judge
8:46
that you you're saying that she wasn't
8:47
capable capable yeah I mean the key of
8:50
the case to to to is uh she was not
8:54
capable and therefore that will is
8:57
void the bottom line here
9:00
okay there is a crime fraud false okay
9:04
eventually they will declare that will
9:06
void fine what happens with everything
9:09
now recriminations after that then you
9:10
have to try and reclaim the money or
9:13
house that was sold Etc where is all
9:15
that money and there's a problem if
9:18
that's why it's important to go quick
9:20
and straight away cuz if you find out
9:22
this you need to go straight away put a
9:24
charge against the property uh block and
9:27
do whatever hassle you need to do
9:29
is at that
9:31
time afterwards probably it's too late I
9:34
mean the client is doing this for
9:36
principles and he's saying now I want to
9:38
do this so it will not happen again cuz
9:41
he will do it again to somebody else
9:43
because unfortunately there is people
9:44
like that yeah they do they do use
9:47
vulnerable people for their own gain uh
9:50
and it's and it does happen in isolated
9:52
cases as well it's not like somebody a
9:53
Serial a person who does this they
9:56
happen of course but you know we We Have
9:58
Heard on a regular BAS
10:00
situations where the you know the will
10:02
that people the family thought their
10:06
their their relative had turns out not
10:08
to be the one when it comes to the light
10:09
of day um and and we do it comes up
10:12
regularly uh in the expat newspapers
10:15
here I'm afraid and it does happen quite
10:16
often obviously with expats because of
10:18
the fact that they're you know isolated
10:20
from their family who probably abroad or
10:22
maybe abroad and and generally elderly
10:25
uh in a foreign country and sadly that
10:26
does happen yeah unfortunately uh um you
10:30
are very vulnerable that will be the the
10:32
the answer to to the whole thing and
10:34
then people do what they like with you
10:37
that's the bottom line how are the
10:38
judges here on these sort of cases are
10:41
they generally sympathetic or are they
10:42
quite hard on the lawyers to prove the
10:44
point that um they need to be able to
10:46
receive that here call the key of the
10:49
case is whether she was capable to make
10:51
that decision or not but there are
10:53
evidence that you will see that will
10:56
that that will she would have never sign
11:00
that if she knew what she was signing
11:02
now we have witnesses as well that they
11:04
will stand up in court and say no she
11:07
she she wouldn't leave anything to to to
11:09
somebody else unless it was his son mhm
11:13
and um and and and the good thing from
11:16
our client he's saying inia I do this
11:19
obviously if I got zero chance I
11:22
probably will not do it because he's
11:23
wasting money and but if there is at
11:25
least something I could do I will
11:28
definitely uh go for it and I said to
11:30
him listen the only way forward now the
11:33
only way out we have is the criminal
11:35
action right and a different matter is
11:38
what kind of evidence we're going to get
11:40
in the trial
11:42
eventually and whether the judge is
11:44
going to understand but the judge will
11:45
be sympathetic I
11:47
mean if you were
11:50
probably if it was something more normal
11:54
Carl I mean you have a son you made a
11:57
privious will that you leave everything
11:59
to your son is your only son you had a
12:01
good relationship and you changed the
12:03
well the very last minute in hospital
12:05
driven by you know is now a different
12:10
different thing is the material we need
12:13
to use to convince a judge that the
12:16
whole thing it was it was a fraud so
12:19
back to those medical documents we were
12:21
talking about correct and obviously the
12:23
evidence here is the will yeah I mean
12:26
why would she sign a will like that
12:29
what why would she if the relationship
12:31
was good so it's totally out of
12:33
character and there there doesn't seem
12:35
to be any reason why she might change it
12:37
call I will be asking here obviously is
12:41
for a prison sentence obviously uh and
12:44
then from a civil point of view to make
12:46
void that will so the existing one the
12:51
previous one will be The Binding right
12:53
however you'll say na but what's the
12:55
Practical side of the whole thing how
12:57
much money is going to be left out is
12:59
the beneficiary going to be in Spain at
13:01
the time is the money going to be in
13:02
Spain and there's a challenge that
13:05
neither you or me nobody knows at the
13:07
time what's the sort of I'm not saying
13:09
that anybody would want to go out and do
13:11
anything like this but what sort of jail
13:13
sentence are you going to be asking for
13:15
well I will ask you for maximum here for
13:17
fraud is 248 of the criminal code uh
13:20
vulnerable people I mean as much as I
13:23
could ask that's what I normally do when
13:26
I go through
13:27
criminal as I go for the maximum if
13:30
possible and then if it's if it's less
13:33
well it depends on the
13:34
evidence in this in this specific
13:38
situation here um I will be asking at
13:42
least for 6 to
13:45
7 you know
13:48
um but we talking about property we're
13:52
talking about uh false uh you know is is
13:58
false public false um we call it these
14:03
public
14:04
documents false MH you know I think
14:07
there is a specific crime for that okay
14:10
is
14:12
is right um so so there is a lot of
14:17
things the the the public notary will
14:20
have to explain as well who instruct
14:23
them to the noty to go to hospital cuz
14:26
she wouldn't she was not capable to call
14:29
anyone so who did
14:32
organize um and obviously the person who
14:36
went there will have to explain why they
14:39
went there obviously they're going to
14:40
say it was her wish but there are
14:44
neighbors as well that will say the
14:46
opposite so this is impossible how long
14:49
does a case like this normally take it
14:51
takes a long time but it takes to come
14:53
to trial in the first place in Spain
14:55
still so yeah I would I wouldn't think
14:57
it's going to go faster than two years
14:59
okay would on the first trial and then
15:02
he will go into high court and Etc and
15:07
um now the only problem I'm reflection
15:11
here call if something happens like this
15:13
you need to act quickly yeah because if
15:15
you live it too late the strength that
15:19
you might have really
15:22
disappears because of not being
15:26
effective and um so he's really I don't
15:29
know so how long is going to take is it
15:32
going to be in our favor how much you
15:33
going to get is really so the good thing
15:37
of some clients is they they do it
15:38
because it's a principle thing even
15:40
though it's going to cost them money if
15:41
they can afford to if they could afford
15:43
obviously because if you but we are
15:45
always very straightforward and clear
15:48
this is the real scenario even with a
15:52
black board which is explained um timing
15:56
time um hourly rate
15:59
um probable a scenario and then is your
16:03
trial and is a personal decision
16:05
probably you and me will go somebody
16:07
will not go uh or the other way around
16:10
yeah I'm not sure if you've talked about
16:11
this on the radio before but um there
16:13
was a situation where somebody passed
16:15
away uh on their own at home and uh
16:18
there were a number of things missing
16:20
after the police had been and then uh as
16:22
executors you actually arrived at the
16:24
property and things that had been there
16:26
had gone things like the car even um and
16:29
and these these cases still happen on a
16:30
regular basis you wouldn't believe it
16:32
cuz actually we were told by a GL of
16:35
ours that she passed away so then I did
16:38
organize with my team to go to the
16:40
property well with Isabella and myself
16:43
um and then we went to the property uh
16:46
then I call the local police to come
16:48
along so you know it's nothing to hide
16:50
come come along and then let's find out
16:52
the truth on the whole story and um
16:56
obviously when we went there he
16:57
explained to us what she found it and
16:59
what happened Etc it was a dog the one
17:01
who just start barking and and saying to
17:03
the
17:04
neighbors but I will say well how do I
17:08
start out digging where is the phone the
17:10
phone I still haven't found it so you're
17:12
looking
17:14
for to find out who the beneficiaries
17:16
might be in order to deal with the last
17:18
will in Testament Etc corre that's what
17:20
I'm I'm saying now to all my clients and
17:22
we start in the campaign to try to
17:24
prevent problems because this could
17:26
happen uh as executive what I need these
17:29
instructions I don't even need to know
17:30
the figures I because the figures you
17:32
don't know how much you're going to have
17:33
in the 20 years but if something happens
17:36
I want you to contact this bank this
17:38
bank or these uh is my children or
17:42
beneficiaries um this is simple but if
17:46
you don't have it where are your assets
17:49
who knows where they are and who are the
17:51
beneficiaries well in this case in
17:53
particular we were the
17:55
executors we didn't have a lot of
17:57
information um but that's why I went to
18:00
the property I say well let's start
18:01
digging because I know the name of the
18:03
beneficiary is the nieces but I don't
18:06
have a clue where they leave so no
18:08
address or that happened probably uh end
18:11
of July and we were already in October
18:15
the beginning of October and uh we
18:17
didn't know um so I started digging and
18:21
I made a denuna in the as executive to
18:24
the waria uh where was the car because
18:27
the car apparent
18:29
funny enough we arrived 9:30 in the
18:33
property well the neighbors said the car
18:35
was there before we arrived but the car
18:37
disappear I don't know whether they knew
18:39
where were going and they say well I'm
18:41
going to take the car away so that was
18:43
the first thing missing second was the
18:45
phone I SP to the wer the wer said the
18:47
phone was there charged so when the
18:49
police were there the the the phone was
18:51
there they never took it so he
18:54
disappear I mean we kind of guess who
18:57
probably could have been the same person
18:58
probably who who got the car and um
19:02
Pucket money the purse we don't find it
19:05
where is it where is the residentia
19:07
where is a passport the rest is
19:09
everything was there probably there was
19:11
not a lot of cash probably just the
19:13
typical 100 100 EUR or whatever but that
19:16
had been there when the police
19:17
originally originally attended yes so we
19:19
made a denuna for the car for the
19:22
vehicle and we made a Denia for the
19:25
phone okay and now we are in process of
19:29
selling the property doing the probate
19:33
Etc and you wouldn't believe this
19:36
sometimes you know uh you you're lucky
19:39
or somebody helps you from up there you
19:41
know because we start digging full of
19:44
papers full of everything very well
19:46
organized teacher she was and um and
19:50
then you need to say well let's get the
19:52
computer probably the computer is going
19:54
to allow us to go funny enough it was
19:58
charge so you could open access they
20:02
didn't ask for a code which was great
20:05
okay so I could go straight into the
20:07
emails and try to find the same last
20:10
name somewhere MH because she had a very
20:13
good you know Communication in general
20:16
with the nieces and um and we funny
20:20
enough we found out the email from the
20:23
mother of the nieces her her
20:27
sister-in-law so we managed to email and
20:30
we started so they flew over from the UK
20:32
the two beneficiaries came we met them
20:35
ET very nice people and at least you
20:39
know so you're able to make that
20:40
connection there well that was great you
20:42
know that this very rewarding you know
20:44
because it's not only the executive does
20:46
all the paperwork he's not just assist
20:48
and helps you know so he really thank
20:51
God we could help you quite often people
20:53
might make their will sort of 20 years
20:55
ago and not think any more about it
20:57
things might change you know um so you
20:59
could be in a situation where what was
21:01
the case and the people may not even be
21:03
around anymore that were perhaps the
21:05
very Fisheries when somebody made a well
21:07
say 20 years ago or so which I guess is
21:09
why you're asking people to review what
21:12
they have at the moment yeah yeah and
21:13
the more things you find out call the
21:16
more experience you have with possible
21:18
bad scenarios you know I mean it's
21:21
nothing wrong you did a will 20 years
21:22
ago but probably it's not accurate
21:24
probably you don't have an executive
21:26
probably now you have a different needs
21:28
different scenarios and you want to
21:30
leave instructions and you want to do it
21:33
or you need advice from tax planning
21:34
point of view so there is a variety of
21:37
things you could
21:38
improve um some clients just said
21:42
recently some of our clients um they
21:45
said ignio I had it this way but I said
21:47
this is too complex if you want to avoid
21:49
problems don't make it too complex
21:51
specifically with taxes and and rules
21:53
which change over the years so uh it is
21:55
a good idea for somebody who made a well
21:57
for a certain a time ago then to perhaps
22:01
have that reviewed right now um and and
22:03
so there are probably easier and more
22:06
straightforward tax laws now than there
22:07
perhaps would have been 20 10 20 years
22:09
ago definitely there is two things
22:11
people need to be aware one is group one
22:15
you always have a better condition a
22:18
better allowance okay so nowadays in
22:20
this community we have 100 100,000
22:23
allowance per beneficiary and then you
22:26
have 99% off right then if you're living
22:30
with somebody but you're not married
22:31
you're not partners then probably is a
22:34
good question to say is it worth
22:36
registering partnership because they
22:38
might say ignia we've been 30 years
22:41
together and it is a Pity to say I'm
22:43
going to leave everything to you but the
22:45
state is going to take from 7 to 37% MH
22:49
so why not legalizing these things you
22:52
know or doing the way you want to
22:54
minimize attacks that's another
22:56
important thing and then
22:59
depending on the amount of money you
23:01
could distribute it a better efficient
23:03
way right um or just giv to charity
23:06
certain amounts in yeah I see give it to
23:09
charity that is taxfree for them okay um
23:11
so there is a lot of value on and then
23:14
with being Pedro myself with being in
23:16
the UK recently trying to have um
23:19
collaborations with UK lawyers as well
23:21
because transaction trans cross borders
23:24
uh
23:25
situations uh but so we need public
23:27
notaries in the UK uh lawyers in the UK
23:30
lawyers here and it was very very good
23:33
for this purpose right um I think I
23:37
heard in the UK there that they're
23:38
increasing the taxes probably for
23:40
inheritance tax correct definitely in
23:43
some areas in some area so so um so
23:47
these things is look that's what I'm
23:49
saying the laws changed and sometime I
23:50
say now the law says this but don't take
23:54
it for granted the government change
23:57
tomorrow might be the different
23:58
efficient way so what what might you
24:00
cost somebody to come to you and say
24:01
look I've got my will but it was done 10
24:03
20 years ago could you just check it
24:05
over and make sure we're doing this
24:07
campaign for for for Bay radio uh
24:11
listeners as well we're offering uh 30
24:13
minutes just uh appointment review your
24:16
will and we will honestly tell you
24:18
whether it's worth doing something or
24:19
probably leave it the way it is in most
24:21
cases they're generally
24:23
okay it really depends on your wishes
24:26
yeah because probably if if you just
24:29
want to check whether the applicable law
24:31
is correct whether the legali um
24:33
depending on the year I could tell you
24:36
what whether it's correct I mean if we
24:38
talking about 2005 we're talking about
24:40
1990s it depends on how old is your will
24:45
however if you
24:47
really want to change the beneficiaries
24:50
there is not a cal in Spain so you Cann
24:52
not add something you need to change
24:54
your will a new will a new will and um
24:58
that's important but not only that car
25:01
what it is really important is to leave
25:03
everything well organized yeah so you
25:06
give instructions no doubt very clear
25:09
yeah and um you leave instructions to
25:12
your loved ones and you leave everything
25:15
well going back to the story of the
25:18
teacher I triy to find out whether she
25:20
had a funeral plan and she did so we run
25:25
and they say well no she's not in her
25:27
books and things I'm sorry I've got I've
25:29
got it here thank God I had it cuz
25:31
otherwise so clients I'm always asking
25:34
do you have the funeral plan yes do you
25:36
have a copy of it okay just give it to
25:38
me I'll scan it I'll put it here you
25:41
never know at least if they tell me in
25:43
the future now mhm because this poor
25:46
lady was in in in the tanatorio she was
25:51
probably 3 months wow that's
25:53
expensive so so thank God we found that
25:57
and she was very well organized and then
26:00
we just said to the to the company I'm
26:02
sorry but here is a certificate and they
26:04
say okay yes I know I know is so so you
26:07
need to I guess they always say no first
26:09
off right you never know because it's
26:11
wor paid wasn't it
26:14
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