Up next in 10
Welcome back to our channel, where we dive into the minds of the world's most successful traders. In this episode, we're excited to bring you an in-depth conversation with the legendary Sunny Harris. A trader with decades of experience under her belt, Sunny's wisdom in the field of trading is second to none. She not only holds a PhD in Math but also is the genius behind the game-changing dynamic indicator known as 'Sunny Bands'.
In this podcast interview, we explore Sunny's fascinating journey into the world of trading, how she carved her own niche, and the factors that made her who she is today. We also delve into her unique trading strategies, and she offers invaluable advice for those who are just starting out in this challenging industry. Finally, Sunny shares how anyone interested can get in touch with her for further insights and guidance.
✉️ Learn the secrets of legendary traders and investors:
https://bit.ly/4aCna7i
🔗 Follow along:
https://analyzingalpha.com/episode-005-sunny-harris
⏱️ Video Chapters
0:00 Introduction
0:31 How Sunny got started
8:14 Sunny's first strategy
9:55 Advice for new traders
13:58 Sunny's books
23:22 On Larry William's mentorship
24:56 On creating a new strategy
34:48 Advice for new traders
Show More Show Less View Video Transcript
0:00
you're about to enjoy an interview with sunny Harris Sunny has been trading the market since 1981. she's got tons of
0:07
great experience she's also developed a unique indicator called Sunny bands that she's been trading profitably for over
0:14
30 years she's got a lot of great insights to share I hope you enjoy hi
0:19
sunny it's fantastic to have you here I can't wait to have a great uh great chat thank you I appreciate it Leo perfect
0:27
perfect so typically how we get started is I just want to understand how you got into trading uh your journey at uh you
0:34
know at a high level because I know you've discussed it uh some other uh some other podcasts and then start
0:40
digging into maybe the Strategic elements your strategies and you know what uh new and experienced Traders some
0:46
of that advice that you would give okay sounds good so so with that being said how did you uh crazy trading game yeah
0:53
well it was an accident um I sold my shares of the software company
1:01
that I had in 1980 and I had a whole lot of money and I did
1:06
what I thought was the smart thing I gave it to money managers and they in the first three weeks they
1:12
lost seventy five thousand dollars and I thought you know I can do that poorly on my own I take my money back and then I start
1:19
reading and plotting charts with uh pencil and graph paper
1:25
so it's the charts that I was watching that really became my Trading okay no that's fantastic and I know
1:32
there's a you know a wealth of information today with social media and things like that but um you know back when you started
1:38
trading I'm assuming well there wasn't even an internet okay you know in 1981 there was no
1:44
internet so everything was and in fact I published a monthly magazine called
1:50
Traders catalog and resource guide that was half Yellow Pages it was the Yellow Pages to everybody that's anybody
1:57
in this industry and then of course when the internet came I quit publishing it because I knew
2:03
there wasn't going to be any more paper sure sure no that's that's fantastic so
2:08
I guess uh you know it's funny because I ended up sort of getting into trading for the same same reason oh really when
2:13
I first started trading yeah yeah I I remember the market was going up and I was making trades and I'm like Oh my
2:20
portfolio should go up and I was noticing uh my portfolio balance was still going down just from all the sheer
2:25
commissions that they were trading back then I mean so I was like you know what I gotta figure this out for myself so
2:31
that's sort of how I how I got into it too um it's cool but I guess uh going back
2:36
to you know uh 1981 I mean how did you I mean you just started plotting the the
2:42
patterns and I know that you're very mathematical oriented but how in the world did uh did you start finding
2:48
patterns and and you know what did you do to kind of develop your first strategies huh that's interesting let me pull out
2:54
something out of my drawer here if I can find it all right
3:00
well I can't find it but I had an air lick cycle finder which was a an accordion kind of thing that you
3:07
could test Cycles with and I had a parallel uh ruler so I could draw parallel lines
3:14
and then slide it down the same and have the same parallel line just at a different place
3:20
things like that I mean it was it was mechanical tools from way back when
3:26
yeah that's fantastic so it had to be like no Technical Resources did you find someone that said oh chart the trends or
3:33
any anything like that or no there was nothing uh I did I did find a book in the in the
3:41
bookstore and I don't remember what year this was but it was John Murphy's and it
3:46
was technical analysis of the Futures markets then okay now it's technical
3:52
analysis of the financial markets because it's it's everything but I bought that book and I remember I paid
3:58
fifty dollars for it and I thought boy that's an expensive book I hope it's worth it and I guess it paid itself in Spades huh
4:05
and Spades and then I got another copy because I'd completely highlighted the first copy
4:11
so I got another copy and worked on being more judicious in my highlighting
4:16
and then I got a third copy because John Murphy was having lunch with me one day and I wanted him to sign it oh that's
4:23
fantastic well that's that's how you know you've read a book a few too many times yeah yeah I've done that on you
4:31
know not three copies but on two copies but no that's that's great I learned everything that was in his book then and
4:37
of course all the technical patterns are in his book you know so then when you were you know first developing your initial strategies
4:44
you know what were you trying to accomplish were they breakouts mean reversion or how did you go about thinking you know what this is this is
4:50
how I'm going to tackle the market this is what I believe the first thing I use well I I mean I
4:56
tried moving averages and of course they don't work and then I tried RSI and that didn't work and I tried stochastics and
5:02
you know they say stochastics calls uh 10 out of the last five highs
5:09
so stochastics didn't do it so I got a little book that was a three-ring binder
5:15
it wasn't even a bound book by Jake Bernstein and I don't remember the title of it now
5:21
and I no longer have a copy of it but um he said macd filtered with adx was a
5:28
good strategy so I tried that and it worked very nicely so that's where I started and then I
5:35
started developing my own indicators which is where my Dynamic moving average came from
5:41
I guess the Genesis of the sunny bands okay uh going back in time when did you
5:47
you know start developing your sunny bands and maybe for uh the audience they might want to you know they might not
5:53
know what the sunny bands are just as of yet well I started developing a them right
5:59
out of the gate I started playing with mathematical puzzles and trying to solve equations and the whole Genesis as you
6:07
said of that was because the dynamic moving average was something I developed to uh
6:13
pretty much eliminate whipsaw moving averages go back and forth over each other during sideways periods and you
6:20
get lots of whips lots of false signals because they're whips on and you lose money that you made during
6:26
the trending periods and now your money's all gone you have to start looking for another trend so my Dynamic moving average doesn't
6:33
whipsaw back and forth like that and once I figured that out and that took me 18 months to come up with that I
6:40
was working 18 hours a day seven days a week for 18 months and develop the mathematics for that
6:48
and then you know the sunny bands is just two bands on either side of the
6:53
dynamic moving average sure the reason I call it dynamic is because it internals of the code it
7:01
calculates its own moving average lengths so with every tick of the market
7:06
it's changing its length okay so you're passing in like that you did
7:11
Dynamic parameters essentially based on you know recent history I don't have to pass it in any parameters okay okay it
7:19
calculates them all okay it's using Matrix algebra on calculus to figure it out oh that's
7:25
fantastic yeah I think it's important for for people to understand like I know new Traders often have you know hopes of
7:33
jumping into the market and being instantly readable yeah exactly yeah
7:39
yeah make more money than a doctor but without the seven year degree right um right it's just not realistic but uh I
7:45
think that's that's important so I know that some of the strategies that I've created I mean it takes a very very long
7:51
time to find something that works for you and I think that's really that I think the readers the people who are new
7:57
can appreciate that and the people who are experienced can also appreciate it absolutely appreciate that so that's
8:03
fantastic yeah I like it there's so many people write me every day and say I want to be
8:10
a Trader because I want the freedom and the extra money
8:16
sorry it's you got to start out with losses right right yeah absolutely so
8:22
that's a that's a great question how long did it take for you uh to become profitable and and come I'm assuming you
8:28
know once you've found your your sunny band sets when you started to turn a profit no I started turning profit with
8:34
the macd and adx filter okay so I was I mean I I hate to say it but I was
8:39
profitable from the beginning okay so except one one day I saw the market uh
8:47
let's see what it was it would close on Fridays down and then on Mondays it
8:52
would open up and I saw that happen three weeks in a row and I thought I've got a system of course the next three
8:59
times I applied it it lost money right right right so then that's when I
9:05
started realizing you know you got to do a little more testing than that okay right right and then uh in regards to
9:13
your trading system um you're I'm assuming you're primarily a day trader or what type of frequency
9:19
are you trading on does that change over time I trade the es the s p e-mini uh on
9:27
a five minute chart and I trade stocks on a daily chart
9:32
so it's two completely different time frames but both with sunny bands
9:38
sunnybands works on any time frame any symbol so whatever I want to look at it
9:43
I I take the the rules from there sure okay and I'm assuming Sunny bands
9:49
how you calculate that that's not public right that's Secret Sauce yeah I I figured I figured as much do you have
9:56
any you know advice for for new Traders or anything like that do you you know because you you run a group right I have
10:03
a Tuesday Morning live trading room for an hour I don't really run a group different
10:08
people show up every time okay perfect so then you're live trading and you're just uh showing what what you're doing
10:14
and and some of your trades yeah I'm telling you here's what I'm looking at and here's why I think I'm going to take
10:19
this next trade and then I push the button and say okay I took that trade and here's why uh what would you say
10:25
some of the uh some of the big common mistakes or misconceptions that new Traders would have well they're usually watching my Sunny
10:32
bands because that's what I'm trading with and sure uh you know they ask things like why did you take that trade
10:39
right there and I'll explain that what I was looking at and then uh then they
10:45
want to know why don't you just trade when the purple and gold cross over each other and just trade those signals well
10:51
they're too late the sunny band signals are much faster and they get in very close to the bottom and very out very
10:58
close to the top okay so you know they're just asking specific questions about my indicators really
11:04
sure okay and then um so you've been cheering Sunny bands for a while have you ever 36 years
11:10
that's amazing so and that that's been you know it's amazing that you've had a sustained you know system for that long
11:17
I feel like my systems never never last that long and maybe that's due to the you know complexity of the math behind
11:23
it um I guess that's a great question what what do you feel the reason is that um you know the sunny bands have worked so
11:29
long maybe it's that 18 months of discovery yeah and I'm not I'm not optimizing or
11:36
adapting any of the parameters it calculates its own parameters internally and it adapts to any and every market so
11:43
I don't have to adapt it it's doing its own adapting yeah okay that's that's fantastic so really you know you're the
11:50
sunny bands of two years ago might be a little bit different than the sunny bands of today and that's why it's automatically adjustable and continually
11:57
but in 36 years I've never changed anything in the code except to add bells and whistles now are you trading uh from
12:04
a discretionary is that or you you know have like an automatic execution or how
12:09
are you doing that do you think all right I trade it systematically by watching the Sunday bands and following
12:16
my rules I've got a little eight eight page uh presentation on my website that
12:21
says the sunny bands rule so you can read them and get to know them really well and it's it's not complicated at
12:29
all and I follow those rules I think the sunny bands there's Beauty in both its Simplicity and its complexity right so
12:36
you've got one strategy that just continually works because I you know because it's obviously changing it's the
12:42
dynamically changing I know that um you know a lot of other Traders are looking at strategies they create these
12:49
strategies they work for a period of time and then they stopped working for a period of time so I think that's that's
12:55
really impressive where you know you can have this dynamically adjusting strategy and then then that's it which I guess
13:03
leaves you a lot of time for some other things too right well yeah it leaves me time to do podcasts and write a book
13:09
okay sure so I talk try to talk to my customers all the time okay you know and they're always
13:16
surprised that I've got my phone number on my website and they can call me up and I chat with them
13:21
yeah I was surprised about that uh because I emailed you and uh you're like you got back to me right but I said yeah
13:27
sure just give me a call I'm like that's that's fantastic it's usually not that easy yeah that's great well you know
13:33
most most uh people in this industry you scour their websites and there's no phone number there right right no
13:39
absolutely absolutely okay and the email is always Customer Support app you know
13:45
right you can't even get directly to the person yeah absolutely nice just sunny
13:50
at money mentor okay and then you said you have customers and you've written some books can you tell me a little bit
13:56
about both of those I've written seven books now okay uh the first one was trading one-on-one how to
14:03
trade like a pro many years ago and then after a few years I rewrote that one at
14:09
the biggest of John Wiley and Sons and they wanted to rename it so they called that one getting started in trading it's
14:15
part of their getting started series okay then I wrote trading 102 getting
14:21
down to business which is more about the businesses of trading and testing your
14:26
system and figuring out how to come up with the system uh then there was electronic day trading
14:32
101 which at the time electronic day trading was so's houses so you'd go to
14:39
the place where they had you know 100 computer screens and you get behind there and you're seeing real-time data
14:46
flash through and you make your trades that way it wasn't in your home yet at that point
14:52
okay so I wrote that book so people could understand what electronic day trading was
14:58
and let's see what did I write next uh getting started um
15:04
what else did I write anyway then I wrote uh tradestation made
15:10
easy which was 746 pages of made easy
15:15
for for us not for you that's a lot that's a lot of work that's a lot of work it took me 12 years to write that
15:21
one so there was I mean I gave it up at one point and said that's it I've had it I'm not gonna ever finish this thing
15:26
every time I get close they change tradestation okay so I I just couldn't conquer it and
15:33
then finally I decided I'm just going to plow through this and get it done so I spent six months every night
15:39
writing the book I got it out the one that I'm doing now is
15:45
the definitive guide to train station's easy language and uh ooel programming
15:51
and it's 1250 pages is tradestation paying you for for creating their manual
15:56
for them but I think they should that's that's phenomenal uh so I'm assuming that's
16:01
what you use today for your for your idea I do I've been using tradestations since 1986. okay no that's amazing okay
16:10
when I call in for support and they ask me what my customer number is I say it's a thousand they're like What's the rest
16:17
of it yeah because everybody's got everybody's got customer numbers in the millions now
16:22
yeah yeah wow okay now that's great so um so backing up to some of the
16:28
materials in your books um could you give me like a high level of maybe some of the tips and uh tricks that you that
16:35
you gave to some of the beginners of trading 101 and I think the other thing that might be really interesting is you
16:41
know we've never really talked about how to run your trading like a business how you back test and some of the business
16:47
side of things so I think those things would be fantastic to cover that sounds good
16:53
um my brother read both of my books and he said oh all you say is test the system
17:01
get a system that works and then trade the system yeah that's about it that's that's what all of my books are
17:08
about really is just develop a system test it if it works follow it
17:15
so when people ask me well do you believe in the psychology of trading or what do you do about the psychology of
17:21
training I just say follow the system yeah if you're not following your system
17:26
you haven't tested it well enough so I teach people easy language which is
17:32
tradestations programming language and I and I teach them how to program and test
17:37
strategies and I teach them how to optimize successfully
17:43
because you just can't throw an optimization at it and let it run for a week and then take the answer that
17:49
doesn't work uh that'll be too curve fit and and it won't work into the future
17:55
right which is the problem with most strategies they've over optimized them because the software is human
18:01
and then they don't work it's one of those things where um I created a you know I'm a systematic
18:07
Trader also and it's you know I think we have an advantage over you know
18:13
discretionary tradings in that in that regard is that we just have to follow the system there's no real Intuition or
18:19
anything like that there do you feel like we're playing an easier game than some of the the discretionary Traders oh
18:25
yeah oh yeah okay oh they've gotta they gotta worry about their new nerves and their mood and
18:31
everything else right all we have to do is when it says buy you buy and when it says sell you
18:38
sell and that's about it it's boring if you're doing it right right no that is true that is true now
18:44
do you feel like um you know I see some of the discretionary Traders hit uh you know a
18:50
lot more a lot higher percentage annual returns than I do um and do you feel like that's just due
18:57
to like sample sizes because there's so many more discretionary Traders or do you feel like it's just a statistical
19:02
anomaly or what's your what's your thoughts on that do you feel like where you know maybe the pros and cons of being a systematic Trader
19:10
well I I didn't know that the discretionary Traders were making a lot more than I was well you might you might
19:17
be making just as much I know that uh there's some Traders like Christian qualimagi or you know the short bear
19:23
that are just making uh you know insane you know thousand percent return years uh I know I'm not anywhere near that
19:29
personally yeah so you you might be no I'm not a thousand percent I'm not batting a thousand yeah yeah but it's a
19:36
consistent income and that's what that's what I like why I like the systematic approach because I don't have a thousand
19:44
percent year and then a minus 100 year right right you know I I'm consistent so
19:50
that's that's the thing that matters to me sure sure no I I agree with that because
19:55
I was thinking you know what um you know first of all I think if you're either you're either systematic or discretionary I'm not like I couldn't
20:02
be a discretionary Trader maybe that's just because of my love for technology and I like the programming just as much
20:07
as as the trading uh but I was I was thinking hard about this and um
20:13
and I felt like you know what I think there's just a lot more staying power to systematic trading one uh due to uh the
20:20
psychology I know when I you know started trading discretionary I was I had some troubles especially you know
20:27
when the market swings you start to like really think about things and you know you feel like you're forcing trades when
20:33
in certain areas so I feel like we have to you know battle ourselves less and you know as opposed to just battling the
20:38
market and um you know there's also things that systematic Traders can test uh and
20:45
whether that it's really you know repeatable over a long periods of time right so yeah does a Friday down close
20:52
mean a Monday up close exactly exactly right right gotta test it okay yeah so then in regards to you
21:00
know obviously you're an established businesswoman both from a training perspective and and money Mentor
21:06
um can you give us some insight into you know what what having a real trading business is is like
21:13
you got a one of your costs of doing business is losses I just count that
21:18
losses is a cost of doing business that's just part of it but you know you need a business plan
21:24
you need a spreadsheet at least with your budget in it uh you need to make plans for what your
21:31
strategy is going to make you and how much money you're going to take out of that and whether you're going to reinvest or not
21:37
right uh you know still the most important part of your business is doing
21:42
your programming and testing your rules if you make 10 per year in a profit in a
21:48
retail business you're doing well likewise in trading if you're making 10
21:54
per year you're doing pretty well and people don't people don't want to hear that they want to think I'm going
22:00
to make a thousand percent every year right and you don't you just don't yeah
22:05
so if you can live on that 10 per year and still have some income to withdraw
22:11
for yourself that's the point at which you start trading if you're right lands all show that and you've all you've
22:17
worked it all out and done all the math and I always recommend that people start in simulation mode I don't ever want to
22:24
see people start with real money out right off the bat in regards to um you know some of your mentors I know
22:30
that you know going back you know to you started trading in 81 so you've got so much more experience than have you seen
22:36
it all I'm sure you can pretty much I've seen it all yeah um have you did you have any mentors
22:42
along the way or did you have to you know Forge alone so to speak uh kind of both in a way well I I
22:51
called I got a book by Larry Williams um
22:56
uh the gold one I've got a gold one and a silver one and I don't remember the names of them but anyway
23:02
um short-term future sort I something like that so I looked in the book and I
23:07
saw that his publishing office was down the street from me so convenient not knowing any better I
23:15
called him up and said can I come down and have you sign my book and he said sure come on over yeah yeah I didn't
23:21
know who Larry Williams was yet I just knew he wrote this great book and he was a neighbor right so I went over and we've been
23:28
friends ever since I'm still in contact with him you know and he's he's an amazing Trader and a
23:35
great guy and uh you know if anybody's been a mentor for me it would be Larry
23:42
and then also Jake Bernstein because of the book that I bought that had the macd
23:47
with adx filter on it you know I've gotten to know Jake over the years so those two would probably be my early
23:53
mentors you've been you were an assembly programmer as well as I remember yeah uh
23:59
very mathematical oriented do you feel like you know that's achievable for for most people doing you know some of that
24:06
math that you did or is there other ways probably not um everybody I talk to and they say what
24:13
do you do and I say I'm a mathematician they usually turn and walk away you know or the or first they'll say
24:19
well I was terrible at math in school I never got past geometry you know and a
24:24
PhD in math is so much farther than geometry it's unfathomable
24:29
right so so did you get a PhD in math yeah okay okay
24:35
so that makes sense why you're doing all of the you know I don't all the complications yeah all the complicated
24:42
stuff okay um so I guess in regards to you know maybe um you know some of the people that you
24:48
mentor and you know that are getting into trading these days how would you have them you know approach developing
24:55
their first strategy well you know I still suggest that some of the best learning is done by plotting your charts
25:02
by hand you there's something that that you get from doing that that
25:09
insulates into your neurology and then you know things like if you
25:15
shoot baskets and you do them over and over and over then your neurology will
25:20
know it's like your hand knows how to shoot those baskets and uh if you do that with charts then
25:28
you'll know a lot more than you know you know right and then you can start seeing
25:34
patterns because you see that you're plotting the same thing you plotted last week so you've got to see patterns and from
25:42
those patterns you develop theories and from the theories then you get into the programming of it
25:48
sure and easy language with tradestation really is easy okay
25:57
that's different okay okay but um I've got a little course on my website money
26:05
Mentor that's called easy language forum and Sam tennis and I did five weeks of
26:10
easy language lessons it costs a whole 79 dollars and you can go through and
26:16
learn everything there is to know you're not the only one that's mentioned to draw charts by hand really yeah yeah I
26:24
had uh one other person uh way way back in the day that said you know what Leo uh one of the best exercises I ever did
26:31
was charting by hand there's just something that you get that almost no one's willing to do but there's
26:37
something that you get by by doing it so I ended up getting a some graph paper and I said you know what and I'll just
26:43
do this by hand and it's it's interesting because there's two you know doing you know charting by hand and doing a deep dive even if you're a
26:50
discretionary Trader you know really going through all those charts and and you know staring at them for hours
26:57
trying to identify patterns you know you you fall asleep saying this was a completely useless exercise then you
27:03
wake up the next day and be like wait a second I think I think there is something there so that's at least at
27:08
least my my experience that's true to have you know you get a night and a half
27:14
by eleven sheet of graph paper any chart a whole Year's worth of data on this and it keeps going up and it keeps well then
27:21
you have to get another piece and tape it up and above on the next piece you know so I had this stepwise chart going
27:28
up my wall yeah yeah yeah that's fantastic so I was you know started
27:33
discretionary then I ended up you know becoming systematic and obviously you know now most of everything I do pretty
27:40
much everything I do has to go through a back testing process and I understand did this really work
27:45
um do you feel like uh you know a discretionary Trader can do that uh you
27:51
know in the same manner or you know or do you feel like they should go find someone to say hey here are my rules can
27:57
you please back test it for me there you go that's much better yeah I think when you're when you're
28:03
just doing discretionary you really can't unless you're really thinking hard about it you can't tell people what your
28:09
rules are if you can't if if you don't have a set of rules even if your discretionary if you have a set of rules
28:15
and you follow them then you're not exactly discretionary are you right right yeah that makes a
28:21
lot of sense but you've got to be able to name your methods for sure uh yeah I remember programming
28:28
my first strategy uh you know there's there's no there's no vagueness right everything's concrete uh so it makes
28:35
sense you said you sell your your indicators do you sell Sunny bands is that I do
28:41
okay and the um I'm assuming they don't get to see the source code is that just something no they don't
28:49
that makes a lot of sense yeah okay now it's locked up tight um okay you know it's
28:56
I don't I don't want the code getting out there that's maybe see maybe maybe Chad GPT could
29:02
program it I don't know you know I uh I did I tested out chat GPT and I I don't
29:09
think it's that great of a uh a tool for trading simply because all it all it is is a language model that takes the most
29:15
common stuff and gives you generic advice so and uh you know you've had a system you've got one system and you've
29:21
stuck to it for all of these years so yeah um that's that's really really impressive now have you tried to develop
29:28
other strategies oh absolutely it works okay oh absolutely I've got bankers boxes full of lots and lots of bankers
29:34
boxes full of things I've tested okay my next book after I finish this one is
29:41
called grading the gurus and so I'm taking systems that are in people's books that
29:47
they put out I'm interviewing the author and testing their strategies yeah I'm
29:53
buying that one immediately because I uh I so one of the reasons why I sort of
29:58
started my blog and my channel uh and I'm not obviously not going to name any names and obviously there's some certain
30:04
you know I'm gonna be nice and say that different markets and different time periods maybe different results but when
30:10
I back test some of this stuff in some of these books I'm getting vastly different results
30:16
um so I don't know I don't understand necessarily why obviously um you know there's some that work and I
30:23
think there's some great ideas but some of the more um you know higher compounding strategies
30:29
don't don't really seem to be working as well as the author might make it to me so I'd like I bought a strategy like
30:37
that once one time it was from a well-known author and strategy developer
30:43
and in his advertising in I think it was Stockton Commodities magazine
30:48
so this is to make 14 500 in the last four months
30:54
I'm like that's not bad you can Compound on that pretty easily I want to get it
30:59
so I spent a thousand dollars and I got it and it was true it did make 14 500 in
31:06
the last four months but it didn't make any money sense or before yeah yeah yeah that's that and then it
31:13
truth and advertising huh yes yeah yeah I'll leave it there because I've got you know lots to say about that but uh again
31:20
that's the reason for this but nothing kind my mother told me if you don't have something nice to say don't say anything
31:25
at all exactly exactly but I think you bring up a really really good point uh
31:31
you know don't believe anything online even if it's my stuff or your stuff test test test test if you can't test
31:37
systematically either pay someone to test it for you or do a really big deep dive because there's a lot of
31:44
misinformation uh about all sorts of things and I think even you know I'm doing one test right now
31:52
um you know on a very popular book it's it's something called uh AV WAP and it does work to some degree but maybe not
31:58
for the reasons that you know people realize like you can just throw a moving average and it does the exact same thing
32:04
it has nothing to do with the volume weight and I use linear regression and all this other stuff to figure out okay
32:09
what you know you know what's the correlation and the real Alpha behind this and uh again it's sort of like so
32:15
this works but maybe not the reason why people think it works so I love I love the fact that you're gonna gonna you
32:22
know check out some of those strategies and you know I may not happening I may not have any friends when I'm done but
32:27
yeah yeah yeah exactly so yeah so um you know it's one of those things where
32:34
um yeah it's just I feel like it's important because almost there's so much misinformation out there test and and
32:41
yeah I love that so perfect oh okay oh and this is also brings up this is
32:47
why I give a seven day free trial to my Sunny bands so you can use it try it out
32:53
on Sim mode see what you get test it and and I also do Zoom calls with
32:59
whoever gets a trial and I help them set it up and I go through the rules with them and then I go through another
33:06
another day day or two later I'll go through a live trading session with them and help them Trade It
33:12
right all that for free so you know you can all you have to do is text Sunny
33:21
bands to my phone my cell phone and I'll send you a trial
33:27
so you must obviously get a lot of joy out of teaching new trainers and helping yeah I do yeah yeah yeah yeah I can I
33:34
can tell because obviously that's a lot of effort uh that you know obviously you you could nobody elsewhere right right
33:40
yeah no that's great no I enjoy teaching them and more than that I enjoy when like I just got an email this morning
33:47
from a guy who said he's he's using the trial and he couldn't believe it but he already read made 350 this morning he's
33:54
going to quit for the day oh that's fantastic you know this thing works I don't know okay right yeah yeah yeah no
34:01
that's great yeah now do you have any concerns about uh you know if you know
34:06
obviously if more and more people trade it that maybe that Alpha uh will go away
34:12
um or I don't sell enough for that to happen okay that's not my primary
34:17
business you know sure I I trade that's what I do okay but you know I sell a few
34:24
Sunny bands here and there sure and if it ever got to the place that it was too many I would stop
34:30
so um in regards to um you know maybe some advice to uh you
34:35
know Traders and maybe something that um you know is is widely known or a big
34:40
misconception or you know what what's a good piece of advice or Alpha that you could uh give to maybe some some traders
34:47
that are listening today well my my best advice is
34:52
come up with a theory and test it I a lot of people don't want to test
34:58
their theories and you know why because they don't believe in them they don't want to know the answer
35:04
so if you don't want to know the answer you shouldn't be trading it but they want to hope you know people really want
35:10
to hope that it's going to work test it test it test it if you don't know how to test give me a call we'll talk about it
35:17
yeah hope doesn't pay you no it sure doesn't yeah yeah yeah one of one of the
35:24
things that I that I love about this conversation is that you know trading really is that this simple
35:31
um you know there's a lot out there that that makes it complex and and you know tough and short developing the sunny
35:38
bands and developing your strategies it's not easy and obviously if you don't
35:43
have trust in your systems it's not easy and still maybe maybe I need to you know
35:48
I have tested my systems and sometimes I probably turn them off when I shouldn't but hey I guess that's just me needing
35:54
to grow because uh but um but it really is you know all of the best Traders especially the systematic says come up
36:00
with you know a few you know a simple strategy or a few simple strategies and execute on that and make sure that you
36:07
trust and believe in them and one of the things that I like too is your sunny bands even though the math is
36:12
complicated it's simple I know my first strategy for whatever reason I thought oh I'm just going going to make the
36:18
biggest world's best you know the holy grail and I made it so complex at the end of the day I I couldn't trust it and
36:24
I didn't write what it was doing and you know you need a few set a few well-designed rules not a whole bunch of
36:31
really complex rules right the only thing that's complex about Sunny bands is the dynamic moving average is
36:37
calculating its own values that's all sure sure yeah I think one of the nice things about that is because of that you
36:44
don't have to create any regime filters or anything like that right okay right
36:49
yeah yeah that's one of the challenges that that I have with some of my strategies that said is they work in
36:54
some markets and not in others right and I think I think where my challenges come from like I think there you know I see
37:00
that it's still within the bounds of expected losses and but it's doing worse than I would like it to and then I yeah
37:06
you know make it my own mistake so so I like that how yours dynamically adjusts well there's three kinds of markets
37:13
as Bulls there's bears and there's chickens yeah that's right the chickens are when
37:19
everybody's afraid to make trades and they just go sideways yeah yeah which it's been doing since last July
37:26
yeah I'm tired of this now yeah yeah yeah well hopefully you know
37:31
it can't stay this way forever so it'll you know eventually at some point yeah and uh you know who Glenn Neely is
37:40
I I don't you should interview him sometime he's a okay he developed uh uh
37:45
it's not um he calls it neowave it's not Elliott Wave It's he counts it differently
37:52
okay and and he's very good at predicting where the markets are going I don't predict I just follow along sure
37:58
sure but but Glenn has predicted that we are right on the edge of a brand new extended bull market
38:06
okay no that's that's great yeah I'm not good at predicting I've tried it but I
38:11
think I find it's easier to react yeah I do uh I do a show on Mondays from the
38:17
with uh timing research David kosmitter's group and they start right out with okay what do you predict them
38:25
where do you predict the Market's going to be by Friday and I'm never more than 50 sure I don't
38:30
know I think it might go up but I don't know right right yeah yeah on a five minute
38:35
chart I'm looking at the next bar not Friday yeah yeah yeah yeah absolutely yeah that's that's how I trade too right
38:42
I I react you know I can see a breakout I can see you know and you know parabolic short I've got a few different
38:48
you know strategies that I use um you know and for me quite frankly I've stolen all of them right I see
38:56
other Traders actually now there's a few there's one or two strategies it's sort of used in two that I actually came up
39:03
with my own thoughts but uh but I think there's enough enough uh enough out
39:08
there to find good Traders or strategies that that work uh no not like whenever you first started uh there's nothing
39:14
yeah yeah I remember when yeah I'm old enough to remember when dial up uh and
39:20
the internet and you had to like argue with your you put your phone in this little cradle with two suction cups and
39:26
yeah exactly yeah and my I had an African gray parrot and they're like the
39:31
best talkers and as soon as I get that phone and head toward that modem he'd start going
39:39
that's so funny yeah that's great that's great but yeah I remember back then you
39:44
know there wasn't a lot out on the web right uh no we're still like is this actually something when I put a money
39:51
mentor on the web in 1995 there were 10 000 users
39:56
of okay of the entire internet there were 10 000 years now there's five billion
40:02
yeah that's amazing and it's been up ever since okay it's changed a lot over the years
40:07
but it's been there since 1990 sure sure no that's great so okay well Sonny I
40:14
really appreciate uh your time today so how can my audience get a hold of hold of you if they want to get in touch
40:20
excellent there's two ways Sunny whether you at moneymentor.com
40:26
or my phone which is my cell phone that's with me everywhere 760-908-3070
40:34
I welcome calls yeah and and she's not kidding either you messaged me and I called you right
40:39
and you picked up right right then uh nobody answers my phone for me I do it yeah no that's that's that's fantastic
40:46
and uh yeah I'd love to I can't wait to uh see your I know you're working on that that big book but the next you know
40:53
your back testing book I I can't wait that'll be fun that one with my audience yeah yeah it will it will so perfect
40:59
sunny I appreciate the time today uh once again thank you for being so generous uh with your time and sharing
41:05
some of your trading wisdom and uh can't wait to stay in touch thank you Leo I really enjoyed it all right take care
41:12
you too have a good day and that's it for this episode of alphacast please like and share on whatever platform
41:17
you're listening on and check out the show notes at analyzingalpha.com podcast
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