Why Do I need More Cost?? | The Reschool'd Podcast

Welcome to the Reschooled Podcast, the show that discusses all the things that schools

may have missed with your hosts, AJ Couttee and Jason Gordon. Hey everybody, welcome back to the show. We are the Reschooled Podcast, the show that

discusses all the things that schools may not have prepared you for. As always, I am

aj and sitting across me jason jason how are you doing today i'm doing well aj um just got through

walking my girls to school and it's starting to rain everywhere so i just beat the rain in so

feeling a little fortunate there um but yeah yeah it's good it's a little bit gloomy you know

gotta work to get the energy up it is ominous at my house right now i looked outside is it really

yeah it's it's getting dark um i think we got like a small cell coming through but it's if you

look on the weather map it's like red so uh you're probably gonna hear some thunder throughout this

uh this episode possibly but we'll see how it goes um well no worries yeah no i'm not i'm not

worried about it but uh well today's episode we are going to be talking about one of my absolute

favorite topics to talk about in class i talk about it in one of my that well that's a different

class um i did actually teach a restaurant entrepreneurship class one time which we

talked about food, which was awesome. It was one of the greatest classes ever. Um, but no, I am

talking about opportunity cost. Uh, it is one of those things that, you know, you may hear the term

but once you actually start, at least in my opinion, once you start using it in your, in real

life, uh, it starts making your life a whole lot better. You start to see things differently

And I absolutely love talking about this topic. I actually spent, you know, when we were doing

what hour and 15 minute classes, I would spend close to 50 minutes just talking about

opportunity costs. Oh, that's amazing. Well, I mean, if you're not a type of person who's gotten into economics before and never

heard the term, it's probably something you did anyway, right? You know, you just didn't realize you were doing it

But before we jump in, let me remind everybody, visit us on the website, reschool.com

That's reschool with a D, not an E-D. Drop us a line. Let us know what you want to hear

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pitch we need to come up with a community so for when we you know when more people come around that

they can be part of the community like like we call them reschoolers kind of like preschoolers

but reschoolers. I like it. Yeah. We can get some t-shirts made

Yeah. Well, no, and before we, before we get to the quick question

I do have a little bit of a issue to take with you. You just brought up it

You brought up economics. This is, I know it's got some economics

but I'm an accounting teacher. Don't, don't give this away to economics

which fortunately managerial accounting does encompass a whole lot of other areas too. So

but I don't want to lose this. So quick question. Did you feel like you were giving up anything when you decided to go to college

No, no, nothing at all. I mean, I had nothing, you know, so this is, you know, and I think this is a huge difference between a lot of people, right

In different areas, come from different backgrounds, things like that. For me, my parents the whole time, they had not gone to college, but they recognized the value and everything like that

So they told me from the start that our objective for you is to make certain you can go to college

And that was the expectation that you go to college because they tied, you know, particularly at that time

Right. I went in the late 90s. So they were so closely associating financial or professional success in life with getting a formal college degree

And, you know, we'll probably talk about in this episode a little bit how that might not be the case anymore

But I at my age then, based upon, you know, the way I grew up, they said that that's what you're going to do

And I didn't doubt it for one second. That is what I was going to do

Right. And I was going to make that happen no matter what. So nothing in my life was, you know, there were no opportunities there that I was giving up for the opportunity to go to college

The going to college was just a foregone conclusion. That was the opportunity. So, yeah. Did you is that something similar on your side or did you experience something different

No, I think it's right about there. You know, I think we talked about this in a previous episode, too, that, you know, there are your options of coming out of college or coming out of high school

are you either go to college, you go into work or you take that gap year. And I knew kind of what

mine, what I knew I wanted to do. I knew exactly what my career path was going to be

kind of where I was going. And I knew it was going to be long and arduous. And I knew if

I also knew for my personality, my ways, I knew if I took a year off, I would get more complacent

I would get lazier. I wouldn't be in that rhythm. And so I knew if I, to me, if I did take a gap

year, I knew I was going to be pretty much giving up more than going directly into college. And I

didn't want to give that up. I didn't want to lose that, you know, that momentum that I had

And I was really, really afraid of that. And much like you, that my parents kind of pushed

the importance of college, especially knowing what your career path is going to be. Um, because

my dad was at the time when I was growing up, he was a professor in college and he became a dean

of the school of business. But, uh, you know, I saw the importance of it. I saw the importance of

it for what I wanted to do. Um, I will say on the other side, like my son right now, who's a senior

he's trying to figure out, you know, what he's going to do. And, um, he's more of that kind of

trade skill, uh, personality. So he's looking more at a trade school. And so it's not like

I'm pushing, you know, you have to have bachelor's masters, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. It's just

whatever you need to be, be able to be successful. That's what you go for, but you need to understand

what kind of what that outcome, what, what, what, what, what your outcome is going to be

So you don't have these, you know, costs that you're giving up that actually could be more

beneficial to you. And, you know, I had friends, tons of people that I was around growing up

that didn't have that same mentality. Their parents were not pushing them towards a traditional

four-year college experience type thing. And usually most of those people, when they were

graduating high school and stuff, they were already involved in something. They had jobs

that they were working in already and things like that. So they had some plans, some direction and

things like that. So if you find who, you know, everyone out there listening, you find yourself

in that situation where, you know, there are things you have to give up that if you're going

to go to college, these things just aren't going to work together. Whether it's sometimes it's

things like relationships, right? Cause you, you might have to move away and the other person's

not moving with you type scenario. Um, particularly, you know, even if it's not a

significant other, at least it's your parents, right? You're moving away from them and

And odds are you live with one or both of them up until that point in time

So a lot of things could change that way. Jobs, right? You're leaving a job or some level of employment or you have your own business or something like that going

And then you're going to college to do that instead. Some people have dreams of other fields like, you know, athletics or acting

You know, it always astonishes me when I hear some of the people in Hollywood talk about, you know, their path

And so many of the stories begins with begin with. I was 17 years old or 18 years old, and I told my parents I was not doing what they expected of me

I wasn't going to college or I wasn't taking this job or doing whatever. And I just went out to L.A. or I went out to Hollywood or I went to New York, that type of thing

And, you know, for that select few, right, it worked. type scenario, right

So but there was an opportunity cost there If they would have you know there was an opportunity cost in that decision going taking that adventure and pursuing a very difficult career but there would have been an

opportunity cost to pursue a traditional career and not do that, right? And obviously their lives

probably would have turned out a little bit different. So anyway, I guess, you know, that's

the context of what we're talking about right now. So with that being said, let's go ahead and break

it down for them. What is, what, what do we mean when we say opportunity costs

So definition wise, opportunity costs is the potential benefit that is given up when you

choose one alternative over another. And this is kind of one of the reasons why I bring this up in

my class is our lives are full of decisions that we make. I mean, we make decisions every hour

every day, um, on something, and it could be yes, no, um, here, there, you know, depending on

whatever the situation brings up, you're always going to have a decision to make. And when you

make that decision, you're always going to have to give up something for one versus the other

And so when you understand what opportunity cost is and how to actually use it for the decisions

that you make, then you're able to make decisions more clearly, more beneficial to you. And you can

start seeing kind of, and I kind of look at it, opportunity cost as in two ways. You have the

immediate opportunity cost and then you have the kind of future oriented opportunity costs

You know, this is what the immediate impact is going to be. This is what I'm giving up now in order to do this, but this is also what I could be doing, um, with this time, with this

money, with this resource, whatever it may be. Uh, that's why I just, I love talking about stuff

because you can put, you can put so many things we do in perspective and it just blows your mind

and had somebody told me this. Okay. So for instance, I was talking

actually talking to a buddy of mine this morning after we dropped our kids off from school or at school

And we were talking about how back in the day, you know

if we had some money, it was like, oh, I want this. Like, this is the cool thing

I want this. It's going to make me happy, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And then like, now it seems like every purchase at the age that I'm at

every purchase that I make, I'm thinking, I really could probably be spending this money on something else

Like there's something probably more important than me getting X, Y, and Z

I could use this for gas or I can use this for food. That's probably a bigger one for me

But it always seems like I'm always thinking about, like if I want a new computer, I love technology

If I want a new computer, all I can think of is that's a good amount of money. That's like a whole month's worth of food cost for us

And so I have to go through these things. I have to go through to make these decisions. And that's where it, like I said, we naturally do it

But once you actually kind of consciously look at it from an opportunity cost perspective, it changes a whole lot

It makes your decision not as stressful. Well, it makes you do the math, right

Yeah. I mean, you're comparing one thing to another. And while I say math, it's not necessarily numbers unless you can actually put a dollar value on it

And in some things you can, right? If you're buying something, that makes it easy. But doing something or experience something maybe doesn't have a dollar value the same way

But you're comparing two things and saying, why is one better than the other

And how much better is it than the other? Because particularly, say you're doing one thing versus two other things

Why is one more value than the other? So comparative, you're just comparing two scenarios

And while we do that every day, every choice we make, are we really, like I say, sitting down and doing the comparison

When is the combination of things that I'm foregoing worth more than the choice I make today

Yeah. Right. You know, so I will say probably one of the biggest, most common ones that students come up with or come to when it comes to decisions, at least in college

I remember this back in my day. I don't know if it was a big decision for you because it seemed like you were pretty planned out

But, you know, you get to that point where Thursday night comes around and you got to test maybe the next day or whatever

And you're thinking, do I study or do I go to the party? I mean and that's that's when you start to think okay most of us when we when we think that way

we're looking at it as well I just the fun is over there but then when you really kind of break it

down you're looking at okay what are my priorities is the fun aspect priority is that my priority or

is it the the great aspect if some if your grades are on the line then you're probably going to

forgo the the party if you prioritize fun then you're probably going to forgo the study

and that's kind of that's just the probably one of the most basic examples I can give you

for instant opportunity cost I mean you're looking at what is what it's going to do now

now you can also extrapolate that and say okay if I fail this exam then I may fail the class and

that means I'm going to have to spend a whole another semester on this class and especially if it's prereqs then that means I'm pushing everything back potentially a whole semester

and that's going to throw everything off and it's going to potentially put me in, you know

a fall graduation. And if I'm trying to get an internship, summer internship, there's a

there's a gap semester in there between when I graduate and my summer internship. And then it

starts to push a whole bunch of things back. I mean, that's the, that's the, the interesting piece of opportunity costs is again, it's not, it's not always immediate. It's also has potential

for the future impact too. I can't tell you how many times I've had that exact same scenario with

students who I was advising and they, you know, life became too much, whatever they needed to

you know, not put the effort into a course and they didn't pass it or they didn't have a high

enough grade where they get credit for it in their major and stuff like that. And, you know

what I don't think they were measuring was, you know, what was the opportunity cost, the time that

they were investing in other things versus the time they would have needed to invest in the course

to pass it or get the grade they needed. And they didn't do it

And then so it was more than just saying, oh, I got to take the course over. It was all the other implications, right

How does that affect you in the future and things like that? And oftentimes after the fact, that Monday morning quarterbacking, when you're talking

to them, they're like, oh, God, I didn't realize how badly that was going to hurt my

progression or I didn't realize how much it was going to hold me up in my progression

towards graduation. So anyway, yeah, I mean, so sometimes I think particularly in scenarios where you don't understand all of the externalities, things that are, you know, surrounding the decision, you just don't realize exactly what the effect or impact is going to be

Right. So, yeah, great point. With that being said, on the personal side, anything come to mind immediately that you had to give up because of opportunity costs around the time of college or going to college

I mean, personal – because we're going to break it down to personal and financial, and part of personal is financial to some extent

but I, you know, the biggest personal thing from the personal opportunity cost side for me when I

was looking at stuff is just the time. And time is one of those things that's hard to put a value on

because it's just, what is your time worth at that time? I mean, sometimes it's like, you know

it's very valuable because you've got something else to do. So in order for you to pivot away

from what you need to do, it needs to be worth something. Or it's, you know, I've got a bunch

of free time and the first time somebody calls me and says, Hey, we're getting together. I'm like

okay, cool, because I have nothing to do. So I think time is probably one of the biggest resources

that we look at, because it's a constrained resource. I mean, there's only 24 hours in a day

So I would say from a personal side, that would be mine. What about you

Well, you know, I've always, early on, I was, you know, so focused on

progression towards success. And I would give up anything to, you know, continue the mission

whatever I was on. And my mission back then was graduation, right? And, but I was working at the

same time and supporting myself. So there was the money coming in from that and the security that

lent itself. And then the money beget opportunities to do really amazing things. Like I studied abroad

a couple of times because I was able to save up enough money to be able to take a semester and you know one a summer semester but one a full semester I was able to save up enough money to be able to take a semester and you know one summer semester but one a full semester I was able to save up enough money to pay for that right Where I

didn't have to work, where I was able to pay the program fees and do all the things necessary

So I tended to look at things in terms of, you know, how much could I make in the job I was doing

right? And so, and when I added everything up, you know, like the study abroad, for example

That was an experience. It meant so much to me. It was in continuance of the mission before, but it added something to it

And then my continued progression towards graduation, plus the personal benefit and

growth that I got from that was worth more to me than the few thousand dollars that was

the program cost. And I was making really good money waiting tables in college, right

I was probably making 40 grand a year back then, which is more like 50 or 60 easily now

maybe even more, maybe 70. So because I was working almost every day and I was in a great restaurant type thing

So, you know, I was making good money. So I forewent almost, right, a third of a year's salary

So I was looking at, was this worth probably, was the cost of the study abroad worth $25,000 back then

probably equivalent of $30,000 or $40,000 now? And the answer was yes

I was glad I did it, right? Um, but you know, so money was something I definitely measured everything by because I

looked at money as opportunity. Yeah, of course. Um, so yeah. I think everything, everything we do kind of comes back, but almost everything comes

back to, to, we can turn everything into money. Whether it be time is money, uh, money is money

Uh, I got one question for you, more of a personal question. See, I kind of, I can almost guess the answer to this based on your personality, based on

what we talked about on the show. But have you ever made a decision based on a significant other

Girlfriend, boyfriend, well, girlfriend for you. Yes. But the only time I ever did that was when I was finally engaged to be married

Oh, okay. You know, I joined the Army at the end of law school

Okay. I went through the accession process and I was like, well, I'm not ready to go into a cubicle or an office in a law firm somewhere

So I'm going to join the Army. And I did the JAG Corps, which was the law office in the Army, but it was still a lot different, right

Still a whole bunch of military stuff mixed in with professional responsibilities

But that being said, I was all signed up. I was going to go to Germany, right

I was going to be in one, you know, because the U.S. Army has multiple bases in Germany, and that's kind of one of those prime spots

And, you know, you don't have any obligations. You're over there. You get to travel pretty much every weekend. So these guys, they see dozens of countries. They have amazing experiences by doing that. And that was what I was going to do. And then I got engaged and got married. And because I needed to be close to have our wedding, right, after I went in and stuff like that, I had to pick an installation of assignment that was closer

and I requested the 3rd Infantry Division in Savannah, Georgia. And that's how I ended up in Georgia

It's a big difference between Germany and Savannah. Yeah, it's a bit, you know, Vice Biden versus, you know

Hinesville, Georgia. Yeah. Because I wasn't even in Savannah. I was outside of Savannah, right

Yeah. So that was a huge, huge, huge change based upon a significant other, right

um so yeah that that was my best big one what about you uh yeah i mean i did i mean i wouldn't

say it was based solely on my significant other but it was a you know when i was when i graduated

i was dating someone um who was still she was a year younger than i was so she was still in school

my hometown and i had the opportunity to go to other colleges um but i stayed in hometown partly

for for her um and then we ended up breaking up and we didn't it didn't last so i could have gone

somewhere else. Um, but then, I mean, again, you can look at it in hindsight and think, okay

where am I at now? Because of the decisions that I made back then, I'm fine. I love my life now

So, uh, who knows what it would have been, if it would have been differently, obviously it would have been differently if I'd, if I would have gone somewhere else. So

you can always look at the hindsight side of it, but yeah, I did, I did make a decision based on

that. And that's probably not the, I don't know if I would do the same. I mean, obviously, again

if I could have the same life I have now, I would, I probably wouldn't do it that route. I would have picked more based on what I truly did want

So based on what we've seen in our experiences, if we were to put together a list of the things that equate to an opportunity cost for going to college, right

We've talked about all the – in different series, we've talked about the advantages of college, right? Sure

Personal advantages, career track, all that kind of stuff. But what are – so the things that we're giving up, we've talked about relationship, right

So significant other, that could be an opportunity cost that you're, the opportunity that you're giving up, right

We've talked about money. Yep. Okay. And that's arguably the biggest one

Yeah. You know, how much it costs you and how much you forego in earning in order to take that opportunity

And potential opportunity, like how much you're foregoing, because if you, with a lot of positions, if you don't have a degree, you're not eligible for that position

So kind of on top of the growth, you also have the financial side as well

And, you know, I would say experience type thing. You know, if you have a career path lined out, we talked about that example of going to Hollywood, for example

Right. Lots of times making it in something is just a long struggle

Right. And if you don't undertake that struggle and start doing it

from moment one, you may be missing out on the potential that what could arise. Right. So taking

a break out of a professional career or whatever you're doing to go to college. Right. That is an

opportunity cross. Right. Everybody always says, you know, oh, you got plenty of time to come back

and travel later. You got plenty of time to go and try to be a singer or try to be an actor or

try to play professional sports or try to be a writer or try to start build your own business

or do all these things. But in many ways, you don't, right? Time is finite. You only have so

much of it and you never know when yours is going to run out. So when you take time out in life to

go to college, you hope it's building you for something else. But it's also taking away if you

have another track. Now, some people are just drifting, right? You have no idea. But sometimes

you are giving up that aspect, that potential time, the benefit of how that builds towards

your career, right? So you're giving up a certain level of experience, you know, whether it's

personal experience or professional experience. So any other things you can think that's part of

the opportunity to cause things you're giving up? No, it's all about resources. Wherever you

you, wherever the resources go, like, so if we're talking about money, time, experience to me is a

resource because you learn a lot of valuable things from experience. And that kind of goes

hand in hand with the time aspect, because a lot of it has to do with time, you know, where you're

spending this time is where you're gaining your experience. You know, one of the best examples

that I tend to use in my class for students just to kind of understand it, because it is

I don't know if it's a huge thing for college students, but it's an area that their mind

typically goes to maybe after they get out of college, you get a big person job

and that's buying a car. That's one of the things that everybody would love to have a brand new car

And I think they said the average, I can't remember exactly what it is, so don't quote me on this

but I want to say the average car payment right now per month is somewhere between $700 and $800

for a brand new car. And that's for 72 months, I believe. And all I can think is, okay, so let's

think about this for a moment. Let's assume if we're going to buy this car that we have seven

to eight let just call it a month Okay That if you going to buy this car that is a debt that you contractually obligated to pay So is coming off of your check out of your check every month

to pay this car or you're going to lose the car. Yeah. If not, they're going to go get the car

Exactly. So then you go, okay, well, if I don't buy a $700 car, let's do the opportunity cost

ysis here. Instead of me buying a brand new car, what if I buy a used car? One that gets me

from point A to point B. One that I'm not, I'm not trying to impress the person next to me

I'm not, it's not a glorious car. It just, it gets me from point A to point B. And let's just say

it's, I don't know, high end $300 a month. Okay. So seven to three, that's $400 a month that I'm

saving. So $400 a month, that's $4,800 a year. What could I do with that $4,800

That's the opportunity cost. Could I take that money and make money? So now the opportunity

cost even grows. Could you invest it into something? Could you put it into your retirement

So then this one car that you're choosing on, you're choosing between, so whether it be a new

car or an old car. It's $700 per month for the price. Or I can buy a used car for $300 a month

take that $400 a month that I'm saving, putting it into some kind of investment fund. So when I

retire, it's going to be worth potentially millions, at least low in million. And so now

you're asking yourself the question, is that car, that brand new car really worth giving up

potentially a million dollars when you retire. And that's, that is opportunity cost. And when

you put it in perspective like that, like nobody told me that when I was in school, nobody told me, Hey, this is, this is how you're supposed to look at opportunity costs

This is the best way. When you start to do that, you're like, Oh man, these, these decisions that

I'm, I'm wish I can make it actually, there's some better alternatives out there. You know

I don't necessarily need that brand new car. And, you know, the same thing applies to things like clothing, jewelry, electronics and technology

Right. It's nice to have that new new iPhone or new Android phone every time they come out

And it's great to have, you know, smartwatches and earbuds and all these great things

Right. But then you look at what you're giving up. it's not just the money, it's what that money will do for you employed in a different way

And you have to have to look at it like that. So money is a good proxy for basically looking at

the value of opportunity that you're giving up. And so, you know, in the

when you're in college, right, these decisions that you make, it's going to make a difference

Whether you choose a meal plan, right, how much it costs versus how much it's going to cost you to

eat out or off campus or get your own stuff, you know, and the time that it takes for you to do

that, to prepare your food, to go to the grocery store and buy it, to do all those things, right

The, uh, it's just all of this needs to fit in there. People, you know, I, even at a young age

I just didn't understand why some of the other people that were living in the dorms or on campus

and things like that, didn't get the college meal plan because the cost of it and every way you

calculated it was cheaper than it would be if you ate your own food, right? If you ate out

if you, you know, during the day and things like that, if you had to buy your own food and take

the time to prepare it and things like that, it was just the convenience factored in with the cost

I couldn't for the life of me see why people wouldn't do it. Now, when you move off campus, it's a completely different story because all of a sudden now it's another cost to get time and, you know, money, gasoline, parking, all that good stuff to actually get on campus to do it

But, you know, so all of this. So I guess more of what we're talking about than anything else here is just how you make decisions

And as long as you incorporate the idea of it's not just the cost or the stated cost, it's the opportunity cost that goes along with it

And if you have that, right, then you can make the decision

You can compare one thing to another and say, this matters that much more to me, right, than something else

And there you go. I mean, there's a life skill for you to continue to use for the rest of your life

And hopefully it's useful in making this whole college decision or decisions while you're in college

Yeah, and I will say this. When we talk about opportunity costs and the way we talk about it, even the example that I used with the car or going to a party versus studying, we're not saying that there's a right or wrong answer

That's one of the things when I bring this up, they're like, oh, you're just telling us not to buy a brand new car

No, I'm not saying anything like that. Just like what you said, Jason

It is all about understanding it well enough that you can make the most well-informed decision

If that new car means that much to you and it means more than what you're giving up, then obviously that's the direction that you're going

If the party, the experience of the party means more to you than the studying, the outcome of the studying, then that's the decisions that you're going to make

I'm not saying that those are right or wrong. Everybody's different. It's just understanding it on a conscious level

these are the things that you need to pay attention to what could you be doing what are you giving up

in order to do this or is there a better option is there a better alternative uh that's to me is

the it's worth its weight in gold like you were saying you know would you're you're studied abroad

that money you could have used somewhere else but that experience was worth its weight in gold for

you that's what you that's what you wanted and i completely and that's you know you're talking

about the technology side technology is one of those big things for me because i get a lot of

utilization out of it. I do all of our podcast stuff. I do all my class stuff. I do now my class

stuff like that I'm a student in. I use my computer and my iPad more than anything else I have in this

house. And that's just one of those things that I don't mind spending a lot of, a lot more money on

than just buying used or older, not the brand that I use

So it's all about your prioritization. Where is that inflection point? Where is that point where you're saying this option over here

is more valuable now and potentially in the long run than the other option over here

And that to me is opportunity cost. And that's why I wanted to bring this up in an episode on this podcast

is because it's so valuable. Students need to know how to use this

because they're going to come to a point where they're going to have to make decisions

Odds are you made a decision, if you're listening to this podcast, you made the decision to listen to it

You could be listening to the radio, but hopefully you're finding more value in this that's going to help you further

than listening to maybe a song. There you go. All right, guys, so you have it

There's your decision-making criteria. What are the costs? What are the opportunity costs

Yeah. So anything else you want to talk about on this topic before we wind things up

I think that's about it. I love opportunity costs. And actually, there's another one, too

It's called sunk costs, which is another fun one to dabble in. Maybe that'll be an episode for another time

But no, this has been a great one. It's actually gone completely off script, but I love being able to just talk about kind of what we feel about the topic

rather than try to answer a couple questions that we came up with

Well, that's been fun. You got anything to say before we head out? Just remind everybody to hit us up on the website, our social media channels

and, of course, your favorite podcasting platforms. But let us know what you want to hear about

Send us a message. We'll talk about it on air. You got any shout-outs you want us to make, we might be able to do that too

Absolutely. Well, we had fun. We hope you did too. Until next time, we hope to see you there. Goodbye

Take care. Thanks for listening to the Reschooled Podcast. Be sure to head over to Reschooled.com for news and other information on things we're getting into