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0:00
Yeah
0:05
Welcome to another edition of Cowboys and Chill here at Echo Lounge
0:10
And, of course, I'm Clarence Hill of All-City Dallas. Been doing this every week, every Thursday here at Echo Lounge
0:17
And Law Nation, producer extraordinaire, putting us all together and putting us down
0:22
and getting us right and getting us all set up. If y'all think we look good in this, it's because of Law
0:28
Oh, man, I appreciate it, bro. Yes, indeed. He's biting off my swag
0:33
He's got the sport coat. No, I took it off. You took your hoodie off? And I took my sport coat off
0:40
Well, you're jacking. I took it downstairs, and I took it off because I wanted to show all of the city of Dallas
0:45
and I forgot to put it back on. There you go. And, of course, the guest tonight, Isaiah Stanback, former Cowboys receiver and rising media star
0:54
Yeah. So rising media star certainly does a lot of things with the Cowboys
0:59
and on all their media channels, but join NFL Network this year
1:03
Yes, sir. Congratulations on that. Appreciate it, man. Appreciate you. Was that your dream
1:08
Bro, man, I hit my dream at a young age, so now everything is just going with the flow
1:14
You know, my dream was honestly to go pro baseball, turn that down out of high school
1:18
and then went the football route. Once I finished playing in the league, it was like, all right, well, whatever else comes
1:26
You saw that baseball money. Don't even talk about it, though. Don't even
1:30
Yeah, he was just talking earlier about it. He wish he was still playing football. Probably should have wished he was still playing baseball because of the football money they're getting
1:37
Listen, that was the hardest decision of my life. The hardest. When you retired, what did you do
1:41
I know you got a gym. Yeah. And you started doing that. Yes. And I don't know what else you were doing and how did you kind of fall into this media game
1:49
Yeah, so two years prior to me retiring, I sustained my last injury, which was my Achilles injury
1:55
I had a bunch of injuries, unfortunately. I was just one of those guys. I tore my Achilles. After that, I was like, you know, I didn't need to start working on Plan B
2:00
So I went back and started getting my graduate degree. I went back and got an executive MBA from George Washington University
2:06
In that process, you start trying to find yourself, right? You start trying to figure out who you are outside of sports
2:13
So I met up with a bunch of great people, a lot of people that are friends that are ex-athletes
2:17
that are now doing great things in business and kind of just a meeting of the minds
2:21
And I kind of started finding my avenue in terms of what I wanted to do next, and that ended up being starting a personal training facility
2:28
So I started that prior to retiring. So once I retired, I literally came home and started building that business
2:34
And then in terms of my intro to the media, for years people were telling me that I should be doing media
2:41
but I was so locked into building my business that I was kind of like, all my personal ambitions are to the side
2:46
I'm trying to build a community, help people, all that jazz. And then after a while, the wifey got tired of me talking on the TV about all, you know
2:54
and me talking about it and getting commentating. And then the guys on TV saying the same thing I said
2:58
Same thing you saying. So I finally was like, all right, you know what? After serving people for so many years, maybe it's time to actually give myself an opportunity
3:04
to give myself some attention and a potential career. So I went to this thing through the NFL PA, which is called the Speakers Bureau
3:12
Okay. Which is down at University of Southern California. went down there and just learned how to speak and how to present yourself in front of people
3:19
From that, it became a network thing. One of the guys who was there presenting, his name is Jerry Madelon
3:24
He is the GOAT when it comes to on-air coaching. He's the one who discovered Stuart Scott
3:31
He's responsible for him. But so Jerry Madelon ended up hitting me up probably about a year later, right before COVID hit
3:38
He was like, hey, are you in the Dallas area? And I was like, yeah, absolutely. He was like, okay, well, the guy who runs the media for the Dallas Cowboys is looking for somebody to be on a podcast
3:46
Is that something you'd be interested in? I said, yes. I already made my commitment to God
3:50
I already said, hey, I'm going to do this for me. You're going to do this. And from that point forward, I started doing a podcast
3:56
At that time, it was all remote because everybody was at the crib
4:00
And then from that, it just went on. I ended up doing like six or seven shows on a Cowboys platform
4:05
That was my first year. The next year I ended up getting the color commentating opportunity with the Cowboys
4:11
Right, you did a great job with that. Great job. And then from that, it just kept snowballing, man
4:15
I got one game, went to two games, went to three games, picked up CBS last year
4:20
From that, now I picked up NFL Network this year. Yeah, so I want to break this down, or I want you to break this down to the audience
4:28
Steadfast, what do that mean to you? Because that's the name of your fitness from a biblical aspect
4:34
But what do it means for you? Yeah, well, it was founded on the basis of 1 Corinthians 15, 58
4:40
Be you steadfast and abound on the Lord in all your ways. And really for me, it was my career was nothing but injuries, right
4:49
And it's something that I couldn't prevent. So that was the hurdles that I had to continually overcome, and I did, right
4:54
Every time I was faced with that, it was like every time I ascended to get to what I wanted to attain in life, right
4:59
To get the big boy money, get the check, sit on your butt money, God knocked me right back down, right
5:03
And then I had to build myself back up, and I'm focused on getting that braid again. And he was like, no, this is not what it is
5:07
It's not for you. Boom. So for me, it was always trying to find a way to remain steadfast and remain consistent in my character and my will and my determination
5:16
and trying to overcome the adversities that life throws at me. And then I recognize that everybody has a story
5:23
Right. Right. So steadfast as a culture, to me, was something that bound everybody together
5:31
And that's how I kind of came up with it. Yes. I'm glad what you thought, because I was going to ask about the name of the gym so people could know where it is
5:38
because I've got a lot of friends that go out there, Shell. For sure, for sure
5:42
You know? Yeah, yeah. And so I'm glad you said that, because everybody knows stories
5:49
Because that's why I like writing a journal, because everybody's got a story
5:53
That's the best thing about being a journalist, because you get to tell somebody's story. Absolutely. You know, and whether it's like you or like Michael Irvin or Deion Sanders
6:02
Correct. It doesn't matter how big, how small, how long your career is
6:07
Yep, how you got there. Everybody has a story, and that's the beautiful thing about what I get to do is I get to tell people stories
6:12
Yeah, it was awesome. And, again, we're continuing your story. You know, NFL Network, how has that been for you
6:19
It's been awesome. Blessed to have an opportunity. Went down to the broadcast boot camp this year
6:25
Actually, my first time being in the broadcast boot camp was online during COVID. I got accepted into the program, but it was during COVID, so you couldn't go on site
6:31
So it wasn't really the full experience. Right. Met some people, you know, again, just using your network, got tied in
6:37
and they kind of slid me through the program, got me in again this year. And I went in, took full advantage of it
6:43
For people that don't know what it is, it's an opportunity for you to go in about 25 players at about 400 submissions
6:50
They select about 25 guys, current and former players, to come in to NFL Network headquarters down in L.A
6:56
Okay. And it's pretty much like a three-day just boot camp. And from that, you get all the elements of media
7:04
You get on-air media. You get podcasts. You get radio. You get all the different facets
7:09
And you're getting coaching and teaching by the head producers for all the top networks
7:15
So Amazon, NFL Network, NBC. I'm talking about the goats of the industry are in there watching you and coaching you
7:21
But also, for some people, it's coaching. For some people it an active resume right It a working resume A live resume A working interview Yeah yeah yeah So for me it was a working interview So I went in there with the mindset hey this is my one opportunity to show out in front of all the decision makers
7:38
Like, how often do you get to be in a room with all the decision makers? It's equivalent to being in a room
7:43
Instead of just being in a room with Jerry Jones, you're in a room with all 32 owners. You know what I mean
7:46
So if you miss on that, you miss on – you're just missing. So I took advantage of that, put out a good showing, and then from there
7:53
They called me and said they want to put me on a 30-day appearance type of deal
7:57
kind of like a rookie contract, and see how it goes. And it's been going really well
8:02
How many days? I got three days left. I got three days left
8:10
I got three days left. He going to make it, though. We're going to get another 30 days. Absolutely
8:14
Another day. Another 30 days. Well, speaking of what's left, Cowboys got four games left
8:22
Yeah, we're close. You know, it's funny because we still have a chance
8:27
Well, they got less than 1% chance of making the playoffs. A mixed chance, you know what I'm saying
8:31
Let's talk about this team and really doing something they haven't really ��
8:37
majority of this team have not experienced. Playing games with nothing to play for
8:41
They've 25, 25, 25. They've been competing. Mike McCarthy talked about he's never really been in this situation
8:48
where he's had to shepherd a team, lead a team, motivate a team. that's out of the playoff chase at this point
8:53
Correct. Yeah, it's a bad situation to be in. I've been in that
8:57
Out of my six years I spent in the league, I think I went to the playoffs four times, so I was a little bit spoiled in that regard
9:02
When you're in those situations where you're playing for nothing, and when I say nothing, most guys play this game for two reasons
9:10
They play this game to get the check. They play this game to get the money. I'm sorry
9:15
They play to get the check and get the ring. You ring. Right? Yeah, yeah. So once you realize that you no longer have an opportunity to get the ring
9:23
those checks are coming the same no matter if you win or lose. When they hit it
9:27
Tuesdays? Bro, listen. Thursday. I don't remember. It's been too long. It's been too long. It's been too long
9:31
Every Tuesday they open up that check. Either way. So now instead of knowing that you have a shot at playoff checks
9:38
Correct. And opportunity to go get a ring, now it's just like I'm just carrying out my contract for this year
9:44
Okay. You know what I mean? So, like, it's a different mindset. guys go from trying to do everything that they possibly can go out there to try to position
9:51
themselves for playoffs and and build momentum and all that jazz and now you're trying not to
9:55
get hurt yeah right so it's very difficult from a leadership perspective to lead a group of men
9:59
especially in this day and age where it's it's the me it's the me industry yeah you know everybody's
10:05
worried about themselves everybody worry about their bag worry about what they're driving and what they're walking in with wearing right it's it's a very um self-centered world that we live
10:14
right now and to lead a locker room of young fellas that now have to try to come together
10:21
as a team over these next four games and play for something more than themselves, that's
10:25
going to be a huge challenge for these coaches. Man, so you played for multiple teams then, right
10:31
Yeah, I did. I was spoiled, man. So you played, you got a chance to see the Cowboys culture
10:35
Yeah. Can you break that down as much as is possible? In comparison
10:40
In comparison to the other coaches that we're talking about. I had a complete 180
10:45
So I went from – so I understand the organizations that I played for. I played for Dallas, which was led by Coach Phillips at the time
10:52
but it was obviously the star. Yeah. Then I went straight to New England. I went straight to Bill Belichick
10:57
Break that down, man. It was completely different. It was funny because I remember my first day there
11:02
I'm looking around the parking lot seeing what Cass is driving. That's what I was accustomed to seeing
11:08
Right. Right? I mean, I'm in the locker room. I'm seeing Brady James pull up in one car
11:12
and then I'm seeing, oh, T. New drives up in something. I'm seeing Julius Jones drive up in something
11:17
Leonard Davis pulls up in a big boy truck. Then Columbo pulls up in a big boy truck
11:21
Come on with him. And Larry Allen, I've seen him in a Lamborghini
11:27
I've seen his big ass in a Lamborghini. Ain't no way he got in there. What? Absolutely. He got to fold up like a wallet to get up in there
11:32
Bro, I'm saying everything was a competition in Dallas, but it was for the wrong reasons
11:37
Right. Oh, don't say that out loud. I'm just telling you what it was at that time. At that time
11:42
I can't speak to now. But at that time, one person shows up with a car, another person shows up with another car to try to show them up
11:47
So it was a competition about what you had. And now Cats competed on the field too, right
11:52
And we had some good teams when I was here, no doubt about it. We went 13-3, all that jazz
11:56
But when I went to New England, Cats didn't care. Like Cats legit did not care about what you were doing outside the building
12:04
And I got there, and I thought I knew what hard work was. I thought I knew what work ethic was
12:10
I started showing up early in the morning The meeting started like 7.30
12:14
I would get there like 6 thinking I was doing something You know what I'm saying? I'm about to be the first one in the building
12:19
Wrong, wrong These cats are already meeting with the coaches They've been there since 5 o'clock in the morning
12:24
Cats are getting their lips in And I'm looking around like what? 180
12:29
What is this? And the expectation was different You know, we win a ball game
12:35
Coach Belichick will be like, alright guys, good win Make sure you guys are in there tomorrow to get some film
12:41
It wasn't on hoorah. It wasn't on a great job. Oh, man, we did it
12:46
It was boxes checked. We're on to the next one because this regular season stuff doesn't matter
12:50
So it was a completely different mindset. I learned a lot about the game there. I also went to Seattle, which was a super competitive environment under Pete Carroll
12:59
Pete Carroll, you know, high energy, super competitive. That's what his driving force was
13:04
Then I went to New York. Okay, New York. Which one? Tom Coughlin
13:10
Coughlin. Giants. Giants. Giants, yes. Oh, wow, I didn't know that. Yeah, went to the Giants, and that's where I won my Super Bowl ring with them
13:17
So that was a completely different culture as well. So I had a taste of a little bit of everything, and my perspective changed a lot
13:24
Wow. You know, a lot because you have all these different great leaders, and all those are all Hall of Fame coaches
13:30
You had the dynamics of different quarterbacks too then. So you was under Tony Romo
13:35
Yes. And then you got a chance to see Tom Brady. One eight. Eli Manning
13:40
180. 180. And then you won the Super Bowl with Eli. I mean, yeah
13:43
I mean, I also played with two of the top three receivers that ever played a game. I played with T.O
13:48
Plexico Burrs? No. No, no, no, no. Come on, wait a minute. He said ever played a game
13:52
Oh, it made a game. Okay, okay. Plexico not ever. Plexico not ever
13:57
He wasn't the reason why y'all kind of got that Super Bowl now. He was good. No, no, no
14:00
I wasn't even there. That was 07. I wasn't in 2011. No, he was Tyree. Yeah, I was Victor Cruz
14:05
Hakeem Nix. Okay. Victor Cruz. Yeah. Don't beat me up, Clarence. I went from T.O
14:12
T.O. I said Terry Glenn, Patrick Creighton, T.O. And I went from that and I went straight to Randy Moss, Wes Walker
14:19
He was on that team. You're just going to leave my home where I run Williams out like that. Roy came in right before I left
14:25
Okay. Yeah, Roy a good dude. Roy a good dude. He's crazy. So what was the difference between Tony Romo and Tom Brady
14:30
Not even a comparison. Wow. No disrespect. No disrespect. No disrespect. fact um it's not it's not even in it's not even worth a conversation to be honest with you it's um
14:40
tony romo was a good player i didn't consider tony romo to be a leader wow and again that's not
14:48
i would say that to him i mean um i'd never consider him to be a leader okay there's a lot
14:53
of things that took place on the team when i was in dallas that i saw from behind the scenes that were disturbing that got portrayed completely differently in the public eye Wow And T was a leader Okay
15:05
He's the third person that told me that. Well, yeah, I mean, you go in that receiver room and you talk about that
15:10
and that's not a secret. Okay. And it's been said behind closed doors
15:17
It ain't really been said publicly because there's so much, you know, with Tony and that whole conversation
15:24
But Jerry said it. Dak is the best leader I've ever been around
15:28
He's directly talking about compared to Tony Romo. Compared to Tony. He ain't really talking about Akeman
15:33
Okay. Tony wasn't a, and I guess the best example to give without, you know
15:40
sounding like I'm taking shots. When Tony walked in a room, you looked up and you kept going on about your conversation
15:45
Oh, wow. When TB12 walked in a room, you kind of stopped
15:50
Stopped. You know what I'm saying? You kind of stopped. and you watch, what does he bother to do
15:56
You know what I'm saying? There's a certain presence when you have that form of leadership
16:02
And when I got cut from Dallas, Coach, two days later, it was always that Labor Day weekend or whatever it is
16:09
Coach Belichick called me and was like, hey, can you still throw the ball? So I went to New England as a quarterback
16:14
Wow. Yeah, so Dallas never let me throw the ball. So when I got signed to go play for New England, it was as a quarterback
16:20
And then I started playing receiver as well. So I played – I was on the depth chart
16:25
I was the third quarterback behind Tom Brady, Brian Hoyer, and then I was also starting at receiver with Randy Moss, Wes Welker
16:31
That's the difference between Belichick because he sees something in you. Yeah. I got – I'm not something I want to use him
16:37
I got a package I want to use you in. He knows how to use his players
16:41
He remembers you at the quarterback in college, and, you know, he can see that
16:46
And so that's the difference. Speaking of Belichick, I'm surprised you he's going to college
16:50
Me too. I can't believe he's going to college either. But I was surprising at first until I did my homework to understand a little bit more about the landscape of the college game right now
16:59
and where it's going in terms of where the money's at and the control that's going to be had by coaches going forward
17:07
The game's changed, man. It goes like this. Would you rather be a king for a day or a prince for a lifetime
17:14
And on top of that, you know, he's taking care of his son. Oh, that's what he is
17:19
His son is a coach. I didn't hear about that. I didn't know that. His son's coaching. His son was never getting a head coaching job
17:24
So his son's at my school right now at the University of Washington. Okay. He's out there coaching right now
17:28
But a part of Bill Belichick going to UNC, I'm not sure if this is all the way public or if it's official
17:32
but the word is that contractually Belichick said that my son is my successor
17:39
Right. Let me ask you this then. So a lot of fans wanted Bill Belichick here
17:44
How would that dynamic? It would never work. It would never work. It would never work. Okay
17:48
It would never work because of what Bill Belichick would ask for
17:52
and would demand in terms of control. Bill Belichick isn't somebody that is going to position himself
17:59
to have to go through other people to get things done. Wow
18:03
Right? And in the Dallas Cowboys' current form, you have to go through Mr. Jones
18:09
Right. And Jerry's not trading for Trey Lamb without letting the head coach know
18:15
Yeah. As he did last year. But without Mike McCarthy's knowledge, he's not – Belichick is not letting it happen
18:23
That's not happening to Bill Belichick. Isaiah, you've been very, very close to the star
18:29
And a lot of people want to know the layers of it. How much of this is really on Stephen Jones, if you can speak freely on that
18:37
Because a lot of people say Jerry, Jerry, Jerry. But how much is Stephen Jones' into this
18:41
I think Stephen has his hand on this more than he ever has. Okay. I can't speak to it because I'm not sitting in those rooms, obviously
18:48
Right. But my understanding is that Steven has a lot more say than people believe him to have
18:58
That's about as much as I can really say on it because I really don't know. Everything else would be speculation
19:02
I mean, Steven is the one that's running the cap, and he's the one that's controlling the purse strings
19:06
And certainly Jerry's still the final decision maker. But you go back to the Johnny Manziel
19:12
Jerry wanted Johnny Manziel. Steven vetoed him. Yeah. You know, when they drafted Zach Martin, which is a great move
19:18
But, you know, you wonder why the Cowboys are not spending a lot of money. It's because of Steven Jones
19:23
And Jerry likes to spend money. Okay. Jerry's got a history of spending money
19:27
He's a wild cat. He's, you know, a glory hole. He likes going for it
19:32
If there was no salary cap, Dallas would be at the top of it. Yeah. I remember when they made the decision to draft Zach Martin over Johnny Manziel
19:40
Jerry was still complaining about it at training camp. He said, you don't lay up
19:45
He compared to golf. He compared to Zach Martin was a layup. You go for it
19:48
You go for it. You know, he wanted Johnny Manziel. He was still at training camp
19:53
The year after they drafted Zach Martin, he was still complaining about the fact that they get Johnny Manziel because his mentality is to go for it
20:00
Go for it. And go for the big one and try to get the big move. And so that's not really what Steven wants to do
20:05
And that brings us to the offseason. Steven said yesterday that they're going to be tight
20:13
This year, like they were last. I don't know if you believe him or not. We should believe him. But I don't know how you can improve this team, yet you get Dak back
20:21
yet you can talk about all the injuries, without making moves to add significant players to the roster
20:26
One thing they didn't do was they didn't improve the roster in the last season to coming into this season
20:33
They set Mike up for failure. I think he just spoke to it
20:37
I think he just spoke to it without even saying it. Stevens' focus is finances
20:43
Is he any good at it? Well, yeah, they're salary cap solving
20:47
Yeah. Of course they're good at it. They ain't broke. They're $10 billion out of the franchise
20:52
They make money. They're going to make you win. Okay, but you asked about finances
20:57
We just talked about the focus. Where's the focus? Money, money, money, money, money, money
21:01
Is it a focus on the acquisition of players or is it a focus on keeping your money the way that it needs to be
21:05
Right. Yeah. And that's what has frustrated me. You're talking about the richest franchise of sports
21:10
came out today. The first franchise valued at $10 billion. And they're a million or so more than any other franchise in sports
21:20
Ninth straight year they've been the richest franchise in sports. But yet they don't spend money in free agency
21:26
They shop at bargain basement. That's the only way they can keep that title
21:32
Well, they got the title because of the stadium. They got the title because of the Florida Center
21:36
They got the title because of the jersey sales. I know. Because it ain't because of winning
21:40
Yeah. But jersey sales and all that stuff, I would imagine starting to go down. Right
21:44
Because training camp was not the same this year. The players know that. You know, D-Law, put your daddy on the phone
21:52
Let's go get this deal done. Because he was talking to Stephen Jones, and Stephen Jones ultimately didn't want to really sign that deal off
22:00
Am I in the right lane with that? Am I correct with that? Well, you're talking about D-Law, he said you chose to be an owner
22:06
I can't. I'm not. his statements were, you chose me on, it's not my job to worry about your surrogate
22:12
Right. You know, and so he threatened to hold out and not have a surgery and all that other stuff
22:20
And it's going to be another question again with D-Law this year. Absolutely. But again do you see this team winning next year And let go back go back do you see Mike McCarthy coming back as coach next I do see Mike McCarthy coming back because I think
22:37
that if you try to go another direction you're literally rolling the dice and I'm not sure that
22:41
you're willing to run the risk of having another season like this because you're trying to build
22:47
and and and guys are trying to acclimate to a new culture guys are trying to acclimate to new
22:52
systems and all that i'm not sure that you're willing to run that risk of having another season
22:57
because of that okay you're having this season this year because of injuries so so how would
23:03
you marry his contract will it be a one year that's the same or will it have to be a two or
23:08
three year deal it has to be a two year i don't think he's signing a one year okay i don't see
23:12
him signing one year either i know he likes standing i know his family's here and he wants
23:16
to be here but but his agent they're not they're not signing a one-year deal okay but but but again
23:22
his saving grace, the best proponent for Mike coming back is because, not necessarily
23:29
because of what he's doing, and I think he's done a good job keeping his team together
23:33
but because ain't nobody else. Who else you going to get? And you said number four, but
23:39
number four like Jason Garrett. Number four like Kelly Moore. Number four like Scott Bennington
23:45
Number four like I mean, he like Those are the guys Those are the guys that made him quarterback
23:52
It's not a goal. But those are the guys. But he fought and he stood up for Mike McCarthy
23:57
But Mike McCarthy didn't fight and stood up for him. He said, what do he mean? Well, break it down for me
24:05
Help me. Help me out. Help me out. First of all, Mike ain't trying to lead his job before his time
24:13
Break it down. Break it down to me. It's all playing politics
24:17
He threw Dak right in front of the bus. There's only so much you can say
24:22
Dak is secure. Okay, he's secure. Dak ain't going nowhere. All right
24:25
Okay, Mike is not secure. Okay. So just because Dak said it, Mike can't say what Dak said
24:31
Come on, you got to understand that. He didn't throw Dak under the bus
24:34
He did. No, he didn't. What he said. Tell the audience what it is
24:40
Okay, Dak talked about wanting Mike to come back with more power and influence
24:46
Influence was the one. And Mike said, I got more influence here than I had in Green Bay
24:52
which is a factual statement. That does not mean he doesn't want more influence here
24:57
He just said, I have more influence here than I had, which is facts
25:02
At Green Bay, it was a delineation. The GM picked the players
25:08
The coach coached the players. He does have influence on who's on this roster
25:12
So he wanted Jalen Brooks out there skating out there on the field
25:16
He wanted Taylor Topher out there. He didn't want to go out there and get other wide receivers to help alleviate some of the wrestlers
25:22
I honestly think he pecked those guys. He wanted Ezekiel Elliott to run the ball in San Diego
25:28
Come on. Come on. Come on. Don't tell me. Stop, stop, stop. You're missing the point, though
25:34
Go ahead. Go ahead. You're missing the point. What's the point? The statement was, does he have influence
25:38
Does he have influence? He has more influence than he had in Green Bay. He had no influence in Green Bay
25:43
He does have influence on the final roster. He does have influence on who's playing
25:48
Okay. Okay. And, I mean, we're mixing. The thing with Rico, okay, first of all
25:53
Rico, break it down. They didn't know what Rico was. They didn't
25:58
Don't do that because they didn't. At the start of the season
26:02
They knew what Rico was. No, they didn't. You know why they didn't? Because he's never done it before
26:06
As a coach, they did not know. Are we telling the truth on here
26:10
Tell the truth. Tell the truth. Okay, you're talking about a guy that's never
26:17
Okay, my point is this Let me say this He's never been the lead guy
26:22
Going back to college, he's never Been a 20-carrier game guy That's all I'm saying
26:27
Let me go back to the Dak comment What I believe Dak was insinuating
26:32
Was that I don't believe Coach McCarthy has the power to Discipline the players in which the way he wants to
26:38
I like that point And that may be speaking to what the Zeke thing
26:43
Yes. Oh. But Zeke was left back home. And he's still on the roster because he didn't come to meetings
26:50
Okay. That's all he had to say. Hey, that's enough right now
26:54
And I don't – I believe that if it was up to Coach McCarthy
27:00
I don't think Zeke would ever have been on a team. I heard. Well, and certainly after you don't come to meetings
27:07
Okay. And you're not productive. You're not allowed. Certain things aren't allowed because if I allow it
27:12
I can no longer manage this team the way it needs to be managed. So if I don't have the power to discipline you the way in which I would
27:19
normally do, then I am perpetuating that culture. You ever heard the saying, scare money, make no money
27:26
He's on the final year of his contract. Shouldn't he bang the table and say, hey, I got to do it my way
27:32
I got to go down my way. But if he doesn't have that power. He can't say what, Zeke
27:37
doesn't have that power. But again, bang the table to do what
27:44
Who gets the final say? Bang the table to do what? If he's the head coach, you're going to fire me
27:49
You're going to fire me. Who gets the final say? Jerry. Jerry. But bang the table
27:54
to do what? At the point is that when do you... I mean, the time
27:58
to add players is in February. In March. March. Bang the table in August ain't going to make no difference
28:04
You're not really going to add different making players. But just get into the thing on Rico
28:09
Get on Rico. Okay. Rico was a dog in camp. He was a dog in camp. Yeah
28:12
But again. He was your best running back in camp. There's no question about that. But he had never carried low
28:20
Absolutely. Yeah. But. Never been a 20-carry guy back to back. Yeah, for whatever reason
28:27
You're right. You're absolutely correct. But you can say that about every player until they get their opportunity
28:32
I agree. So, if I'm doing my job. Yeah, but if I'm doing my job and I go to training camp and I perform the way in which I need to in order to become the best player at my position on this team, I should be the starter
28:44
He should have been the starter. He was the starter week, too. Okay? The point is they were still doing the rotation because they didn't know that he – listen, I'm just going to tell you
28:52
How do you find out? Go ahead. How do you find out? Say it up. Say it up. I'm going to tell you like last week
28:56
Say it. He had two 14-yard runs. He tapped out. Okay. Okay
29:03
I mean – The coaches wanted him to stay in there. Oh, he tapped out. I'm talking about last week on Monday night
29:10
No, you're right. I'm talking about Monday night. Let me ask you this question. In the five-minute mark when he ran in at 14
29:15
Yes. He tapped out. Yes. Oh, I look at it differently. Hold on, hold on. Let me ask you this question
29:19
They never said Rico come out of the game. Hold on, hold on
29:23
You know, I don't disagree. You're making a great point. But, however, had he been given the opportunity to lead and get those reps earlier in the year
29:32
his body would have been accustomed to handling that load. But they're waiting until the end of the year
29:37
He's had two games with over 20 carries. But it's a mentality. Two games out of 13
29:41
I agree, but it's a mentality. The point, I've talked to Rico. He said, I come out when I want to come out
29:46
They don't tell. There's no rotation anymore. You got to want the ball
29:50
When did that happen, though? What week? He came out when he wanted to come out
29:55
It was after the bye. After the bye? For sure. After he was sick
29:59
That's about he's the full-time back. What happened in that San Francisco thing
30:04
He was sick. What's that? He was sick. He was sick? There was no conspiracy about that
30:10
Oh, yeah. He was sick. There was no conspiracy about that. Kissing babies, shaking hands, sick
30:14
Come on, man. It's two different things. No, no, you're looking for a conspiracy, but it wasn't
30:21
Yeah, he was sick. He was sick. But again. Allegedly. You can't put that in there
30:25
No, he was sick. Okay. I mean, the guy wants to play. They didn't want to put their best
30:29
Would Jordan do that? Jordan who? Michael Jordan. I mean, come on
30:33
Why are you going to compare Rico to Michael Jordan and Kobe Bryant? Come on
30:37
Emmitt, Emmitt. Stop it, man. You're talking about the legends, Hall of Famers, man. We're just talking about a guy who doesn't
30:42
He don't want it enough. He will, but he has to grow into that. And that's how we're saying
30:46
How many years he's been in the league? But to your point, he should have been receiving those reps earlier
30:51
He should have been. Because he had earned the right to be the number one guy. And the only way you find out if he can handle it is if you give him the
30:58
opportunity to fail. Yeah. He should have been. There's no question about that
31:02
There's no question about that. And, you know, they had Zeke on the team
31:06
and there was a certain amount of, you know, treating him with some kind of respect
31:11
They got, you know, two times when he's here, we can't just let him sit until, you know
31:16
No, I'm not hearing that. I'm not saying they should have done that. I know what you're saying. I know you're saying you're just keeping it 100, but I'm saying that
31:22
I'm just telling you their mentality. But, again, I just think that when you haven't done it for coaches
31:28
you've got to show me you can do it. Now, you said they should just put him out there
31:32
but you've got to show me that you can do it. You've never been going back to college
31:38
You've never been the every down back. He's still not every down back. I agree
31:42
And you still haven't cared about 20 times a game. So I really am thinking about Mike McCarthy
31:46
It's a 16-game season. I want to wear you out. I want to keep you fresh. We're going in rotation
31:51
I mean, that's their mentality. I hear you. Right, wrong, and different. I hear you. You know, and then at this point in the season
31:58
son, Monday night when we're, you had the 100-yard game, you're rolling, you had another 100-yard game, and you tap out
32:06
That speaks to something. You can tell me what it speaks to, but that's speaking
32:12
whether he should have been, body should have been ready, that's just part of it. I understand
32:17
I understand. You know, and that's something, that's still some growth. All I know is, all I know is, history this year shows
32:24
if you give Rico Dado the ball 20 times, you give him the ball 20 times
32:27
good things happen. No doubt. And the times that he was 18 and 18 carries, 19 carries, he had 86, 87 yards
32:37
And as we move forward this week, Carolina has a horrible run defense
32:45
The pass defense is worse. They gave the Eagles a run for their money
32:50
They gave the Eagles, they gave the Chiefs, and they gave Tampa Bay
32:54
Because they're trying. One possession game loss. It's a mentality because they're trying
32:58
And they favored to win this game, too. Yeah, they're trying. And you know they're motivated because Jerry shit on them last year
33:03
He did. He did. With the Jimmy Johnson thing. They're mad. Their owner was pissed
33:08
Oh, wow. They did the Ring of Honor thing at their facility
33:13
They have a heck of a head coach. Yeah. So they're pissed. They're going to be motivated
33:17
But, yeah, there are ways the Cowboys can win this game. Right. You know, can the quarterback make the playoffs as necessary
33:25
Dallas is quarterback? Yes. What's the storyline? And that's the thing about me
33:29
From you, from your perspective. About what? Trey Lance versus Cooper Rush opportunities
33:35
Cooper Rush is safe. Trey Lance needs more reps. Why he's not getting it
33:41
$5 million to hold the clipboard? He's getting in one year that Cooper Rush is getting in both years
33:47
Yeah. First of all, $5 million is not an issue. I get that
33:53
What's the overall consumption? I wish I would have got five minutes. I agree
33:57
But most backers what they do Chase Daniels made a career Josh McCann how many times they made a career They would give it out They would give five They were five Look at the money Chase with Daniel Chase Daniel made I going to look it up Chase Daniel made a career
34:09
Huh? He made some bread. He made some bread. To sit. To sit. That's what backup quarterbacks get
34:15
But see what Jones said is green. He said that yesterday. He is
34:19
He's very green. I called all three of the games. He's very green. He's green. Yeah. You know
34:23
I get the stat line all the time. Calling all three of the preseason games this year
34:27
Trey Lance, pass attempts. The number of pass attempts that he had in the preseason this year
34:33
was half of the pass attempts he had in his entire collegiate career
34:37
in three games. Yeah. Right. You only can make it by playing it
34:43
You know what I'm saying? So put him out there. You only have a 1% chance of making the playoffs
34:48
You've got other people's careers in your hands. I mean, you just can't say let's just throw him out there
34:54
When you're trying to win. And if you're trying – before not, they were still trying to win
34:58
He's not ready. But that's what they did in the preseason. They threw him out there trying to evaluate
35:03
You couldn't really get a true evaluation. They were a meaningless game. No, but they are meaningful
35:08
Did Tom Brady play preseason? Stop it, man. Trey Lance, the only way he's going to get reps is in the preseason
35:13
Stop it. That's the only way he's going to get reps. It's not a comparison. It's not a comparison
35:17
That's just a reality. What I'm saying is what I'm getting at is even Tom Brady
35:21
as great as he is in the legacy that he had, He played preseason games to get ready to make sure that these evaluations of the players
35:28
Okay, but the whole team did, but the Cowboys were not playing their starters in the preseason
35:32
That's one of the problems. Okay, that's fine, but we're talking about Trey Lance. We're talking about development
35:35
We're talking about development, Trey Lance. Tom Brady was not out there trying to develop. The whole team was getting ready
35:40
So it's two different conversations. The best way, we already know who Cooper Rush is
35:44
Cooper Rush has been in the league for seven years. The Cowboys just found out who Cooper Rush is
35:48
They just found out who he is. First of all, they may already know who Trey Lance is
35:52
You just don't know. They've been watching him in practice for two years
35:58
Steven Jones came yesterday at the owner's meeting and said, he's green
36:02
This is why quarter of the day in college. He's been experienced. He's green
36:06
We're trying to win. And that's not the way you win by putting somebody out there who's green
36:10
So they know. He said, we got guys who develop quarterbacks, and they know what they're looking at
36:17
He said that yesterday. Okay? So the idea that they don't know what he is
36:23
How green is Tyler Guyton is? Stop it. He's a first-round pick
36:27
Come on. Trey Lance's first-round draft pick. Not for the Cowboys. But what I'm saying is Awesome Richards was a whole lot better than Tyler Guyton
36:36
and they still put Tyler Guyton out there. Yeah, because it was his first year. You're still investing
36:41
This is four years later. You can't do that. I'm just pulling with you
36:45
I'm just using your ysis against you. Tyler Guyton's not a physical development problem
36:50
It's a mental. Yeah. It's mental. Okay, so he can just be mental. And he has to be tougher
36:55
Let's be honest with you. He's mentally soft right now. Yeah, he has to be tougher. But my thing on, even on Trey, I mean on Cooper
37:06
we got to start blaming the quarterback. Who wasn't? Well, when he does good, oh, let's get out of Cooper
37:15
Then when he does bad, oh, that's just Cooper Rush. Now, Cooper Rush in past years threw the ball on time to make up for his lack of velocity on the ball
37:26
His velocity has fallen all the way off this year. Oh, my God, it was awful Monday night
37:30
It's fallen off. His throws are not on time. So, balls that are not thrown on time with a lack of velocity and inaccuracy, which is a bad ball
37:39
Yeah, he did a lot of that. The amount of balls he dirtied the other night. And, you know, it's funny because I saw you posted about Mike McCarthy going over for the run
37:48
A lot of people, he should have gotten. Let me finish. No, no. He got that good 14-yard run. Then he threw the ball
37:52
The pass he threw was a bootleg. To the wrong side. No
37:57
It was a perfect. The plate was wide open. Ferguson was wide open
38:02
Schumach was wide open All he had to do was stop Set his feet On that bootleg to the left Okay Bootleg to the left Yeah It was after Rico had the big run
38:13
And Mike said, I'm trying to, you know, I'm trying to set some stuff up. I'm trying to, you know, go to the left so I can get back to the running game
38:20
Correct. And so he went, he was trying to get on the other hash. Okay. Oh, okay. Okay
38:24
But, because you ripped him by his play calling. And it was a perfect, it was a great play calling
38:28
I didn't know he tapped out too, though. Okay, he did. I didn't know that. I didn't know that. But it was a perfect play call because the tight end was wide open
38:37
Both tight end was wide open. And he bootlegged with no pressure, did not set his feet
38:42
and threw the ball in the ground. He wasn't a Ferguson on the left side of the bootleg. Like, there was no reason
38:48
So we blamed the play call. What about the last play? Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah
38:53
How do you – from a former quarterback. Ab C.D. Lamb versus press coverage
39:02
on the left side by himself. Right. C.D. Lamb tostitoed this dude
39:10
Killed him. And you don't look? Right. Exactly. You know, so at some point
39:17
you know, everybody, oh, he's a good, you know, like we treat him like a baby, you know. Oh, look at him. Look when he makes a good play
39:23
He's 8-1. He's a good quarterback. Then when he doesn't, he's Cooper Rush, and so that's what we expected
39:30
Right. It's Cooper Rush, though. You know what you have in Cooper Rush
39:35
You do. And if they were unsure prior to this year, they now know
39:42
They know now. Yeah. But what they were hanging on, he was 5-1 as a starter
39:47
Well, he was. And they were listening in to the outside noise. And he was 7-3 coming in the last week
39:51
He's playing worse. He ain't 7-4. He's playing worse this year than he has in the past. That's just facts
39:56
Yeah. No doubt. No doubt, man. No doubt. Again, you expect Mike back
40:03
Do they win this week at Carolina? I think, yeah, they win
40:07
Okay. Yeah, they win. Okay. They win. Mainly because it's going to fall on Cooper Rush's shoulders
40:12
Come on with it. Because the secondary has some dudes in it
40:17
They got some dudes. They got some dudes, right. But they don't play the technique that allows for them to be dudes
40:21
As a person who sees quarterback all the time, you evaluate those
40:25
How far is Will Greer then? I haven't seen Will. Will Greer is not even in
40:31
He's not better than Rush? No, man, come on. Okay, I'll just try to throw that out there
40:35
Okay, good. Good, good. I got one. Before I let you go, let's ask about the receivers, okay
40:40
They came into the season wanting to see something. From who? From the receivers outside of C.D. Lamb and Brandon Cooks
40:52
Outside of those two. Yes. What happened? What happened? I didn't want to take a big golf
41:00
What happened? Troy Aikman called it out. Yeah. What did he say
41:06
He was talking about one particular player. Okay. And that particular player was Jalen Tolbert
41:11
Number one. I have a problem with you wearing one number one and you can't play. Personally, I got a problem
41:16
That's a curse number now. If you wear number one, you ought to be a player. It's a want to
41:20
Okay. It's a want to. It's not an ability. I think that's probably the most important. People talk about his ability all the time
41:25
It's not an ability. Concentration drops. I think that's probably the most pressure. Slipping on the field. It's effort
41:30
I thought Ron Flo was going to give a good push. Stop it, man. Stop it. He's a seven-round pick for a reason
41:36
But I'll do respect. I thought he was giving a better push than what we've seen out of Jalen Brooks
41:42
I thought he would beat the ball. I thought he can get the ball. Jalen Brooks was also a seven-round pick. I know
41:47
I know this is what we're dealing with. These are the deck of cards we're dealing with
41:51
What about Jonathan Mingo? Stop it, man. Mingo! Somebody said Mingo. Mingo's been open
41:57
Okay. See? See? See what you see out of Mingo. Is he going to catch the ball when he opens
42:02
We don't know. They're talking to him. Or throwing it where he can catch it Yeah He getting frustrated But it a disappointment to receivers The development of receivers I disappointed in Tolbert I disappointed in the lack of development of that position group
42:17
Do you look at the wide receiver coach now? Okay. You have to
42:20
Everybody has to be evaluated. Okay. You have to. Because when you look at this team, you have to look at this team
42:27
and people don't talk about the position coaches enough. Right. The one position coach that does not get enough praises
42:34
but continues to develop every single freaking year is Linda Wells. Linda Wells. Linda, I like him
42:38
You tell me that every tight end that you get is good? Right. Every single one that you get is just good and game ready
42:44
Because Schoonmaker done made a leap this year. Schoonmaker had no dog in him prior to these last few games
42:49
And all of a sudden, he found a way. I've had plenty of conversations with Linda. Every name a tight end that's come through that room that hasn't been able to contribute
42:57
Everybody developed. Even Spann Ford. Spann Ford's going to be a dude
43:01
He's going to be a dude. He learned how to kick because he can beat the best blocker on the team. So there has to be emphasis placed on the position group and the position coaches
43:08
because they have a job to do in terms of development. They're not there just to play babysitter
43:13
They're there to develop those guys. I want to retain Lunda well. I don't want to let him go
43:17
You better cut that. Jerry, you're going to have to pay Lunda well. You better cut the check
43:22
That's one of your best coaches on the staff. And you're going to have some real conversations about the defensive staff
43:32
Because I'll leave it at that. You've got some real conversations about the defense staff
43:36
What is the play of Al Harris being the assistant head coach? You better, if you want to retain Al, you either better change coordinators
43:48
or you better move them up to something. What's the pecking order, assistant head coach, defensive coordinator
43:55
What's that? What I'll do is say. Isn't he already the assistant head coach
44:00
Yeah. That's the only way they were able to retain him this year. Without due respect. It's a title
44:05
It's a title. He's not running nothing. That's the only reason they were able to retain him this year. He's about to be in Washington
44:10
I didn't know that. He's not running nothing. So when a coach, when a D coordinator or old coordinator or whatever
44:17
in this instance, the D coordinator left the Dallas Cowboys when they become a head coach. He can now go grab his guys
44:23
If you don't, as an organization, my understanding here, you might know better than me, as an organization
44:27
if you don't want one of your position group coaches to leave, The only way in which you can say, no, you can't go, is for him to get upgraded
44:36
Oh, okay. That's a great move. He has to be upgraded, right. So that's why Al got the upgrade
44:39
So how that Rooney rule works of getting a draft pick if he gets to another team
44:44
He has to be a head coach? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So we get draft picks? That's why Carolina got it
44:50
Okay. Dave Ces. Yeah. Yeah. For sure, man. Hey, man. I appreciate you, man. Absolutely
44:56
Thank you for taking the time out. Absolutely, fam. Come and hanging out with us. We do this every Thursday here at Echo Lounge
45:02
Next Thursday, we've got a couple of Christmas parties at Dallas. Fort Worth Association of Black Journalists are doing a Christmas party, doing a pajama
45:09
We want donation pajamas for children's pajamas here next Thursday. So we're going to do it right at Echo Lounge, man
45:16
Again, Long Nation, appreciate you. Appreciate you, man. Thank you. Keep doing your thing, man
45:21
Keep doing your thing. Keep rising, man. I need you hanging, dog
45:25
I picked it up for you, man. He left me hanging. I love you hanging. Again, Cowboys and Chill next Thursday back here
45:30
But, again, appreciate these guys. Can I ask you one more question? What's up? One more question. What's good
45:34
Why are you killing us? Pete Carroll got an itch again. To do what
45:38
To coach. He 137 years old. Pete Carroll, you replayed up on him
45:42
I know he don't act like it. You don't act like it. Hey, Dallas, hey
45:46
Stop it, man. Well, he fit in Dallas. That's all I want to know
45:51
Pete Carroll. Pete Carroll, understand this. What you get out of Dan Quinn, Dan Quinn came from the Pete Carroll cloth
45:58
Man, that's all I'm going to say here. Y'all heard it over here
46:01
Come on with it. Give me my thing, people. Let's get on up out of here. Yeah
46:07
Come on with it, baby. Echo Loud brought to you by Cowboys and Chill
46:13
Peace
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