Sheet Metal Shaping Podcast with Ryan Carr Episode 31

Name: Sheet Metal Shaping Podcast with Ryan Carr Episode 31 | Open Video
Uploaded: 2026-05-04T05:04:32+00:00
Duration: 1 h 46 min 42 s

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thanks for tuning in to the sheet metal
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shaping podcast where we discuss the
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pursuit of sheet metal shaping education
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through traditional coach building
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techniques my guest today on the show
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all the way from Charlton Massachusetts
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the one and only Mr Ray shelene how are
0:11
you hey Ryan good to see you again
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you're you're a regular in my shop let
0:16
people know that you've been at my shop
0:19
probably about six times or so so I have
0:21
I have longtime Mentor longtime friend
0:24
very cool very good to see you on the
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show I'm excited for this so um I
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thought that uh you know there's a lot
0:32
of people uh have have figured out who I
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am for my YouTube videos and also for my
0:39
classes but in my when when I had my
0:42
classes I I actually stopped my classes
0:45
after 18 years in December I had a
0:48
three-day class originally that I I
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morphed it into a 4-day class and um I
0:54
just felt that it was very disruptive
0:56
for my shop and um you know when I was
1:00
teaching a class I I gave people a
1:01
little bit of background but not a full
1:03
background so I this is an opportunity
1:06
for me to to to give a little history of
1:10
where I came from and why I'm so
1:12
interested in what I
1:14
do yeah so it it all starts with um my
1:20
my grandfather who is not my blood
1:23
grandfather but my step-grandfather my
1:26
grandmother's uh first husband my true
1:28
grandfather died in
1:31
1926 and if he hadn't died you and I
1:33
would not be talking he that totally
1:35
changed my entire life and uh was set my
1:39
trajectory anyways because um my
1:43
grandfather the step-grandfather became
1:46
my father's
1:47
stepfather and um my my my grandmother
1:51
was a a widow for I think about 12 years
1:55
so my father grew up a lot without a
1:58
father and um my grandfather came into
2:02
the picture he was from Maine he came
2:04
down to Massachusetts wer Massachusetts
2:06
to get a job he somehow I don't know all
2:09
the history but he met my grandmother
2:11
and my grandmother was a real gregarious
2:13
person and uh my grandfather my
2:17
step-grandfather not so much but he had
2:19
a good mind for business and timing and
2:23
um he decided he was going to be an
2:26
entrepreneur and his first Venture was
2:28
he the TV were coming on strong this is
2:31
like 1948 or so and he he bought a whole
2:35
bunch of TVs and was going to retail
2:37
them and make his profit and go on from
2:39
there well I think that whole Venture
2:41
only lasted like a month and then he
2:44
says no that that's not going to work
2:45
there's just too much
2:47
competition so he rented a building uh
2:50
down by the lake wish the mass is uh
2:53
boarded by this lake lake
2:56
quinaman and um it it it's the uh
3:00
demarcation zone between the next next
3:02
town which would be Shrewsbury the line
3:05
goes right through the middle of the
3:06
lake so Shrewsbury and and Wier are
3:10
divided by Lake when seum and a Seven
3:12
Mile Long Lake on one side anyways so my
3:15
grandfather rented a a building and
3:18
started a little boat business and it
3:20
was really small he had little rowboats
3:22
and canoes and and uh it probably at
3:25
that time all you had to do this is
3:27
we're talking like 4950 or something
3:30
like that he probably had to make a
3:31
phone call and uh was able to get a
3:34
Johnson output motor dealership and at
3:37
that time they only had maybe three or
3:39
four models of of Motors not really high
3:42
horsepower all small small horsepower
3:45
and then he rented a spot right on the
3:47
lake and he did repairs and and so he
3:50
had the the sales place which my
3:52
grandmother ran and he did the sales and
3:55
when I was a little kid I remember going
3:57
over to the sales place with my
3:59
grandmother and I'd spend the time there
4:01
was somewhere along the line in like 49
4:04
or 50 I don't know how he did it but he
4:07
bought like about five to eight acres of
4:10
land or so right on the lake and talk
4:13
about luck and timing it was perfect
4:16
timing and it was like the best spot on
4:19
the entire Lake I mean you just can't
4:20
believe it it was all cover the lake was
4:22
covered with Cottages right the Heyday
4:25
of the lake uh was probably like 1880 to
4:30
1910 a lot of the big companies in Wier
4:34
would have clubs and their employees
4:36
would come down to the lake on the
4:38
weekends and stuff and it was trolley
4:40
cars that would bring you down to the
4:42
lake and then they built um what's call
4:45
an amusement park called White City
4:47
which they had all over the country and
4:50
that was a result of the Chicago World's
4:52
Fair in like 1898 they had a white City
4:55
so this is a great amusement park it was
4:57
right down the street so they had
5:00
fireworks over the lake on Fourth of
5:02
July and uh all the all the you know
5:05
roller coaster and they had a big swing
5:07
out over the water was amazing so my
5:10
grandfather got this boat business going
5:14
and I don't know where the money came
5:15
from to tell you the truth because he he
5:17
didn't have any money I have no idea so
5:20
no that was never discussed but he built
5:22
a beautiful house was probably one of
5:24
the nicest houses a modern style house
5:27
at that time in Shrewsbury on the lake
5:29
in in a commanding position you could
5:32
see like a mile down each way left or
5:35
right and he sold a small lot to my
5:38
father right next door and my father
5:40
built a standard three-bedroom uh Ranch
5:43
was probably like a th000 square feet or
5:45
something my grandfather was probably I
5:48
maybe 1,500 square feet with that time
5:51
was a big house and and the the property
5:54
was a disaster when he bought it it was
5:57
all kind of these little Hills with
5:59
cottage is all dotted out and just so
6:01
happens across the street was a sand and
6:04
gravel yard and they had all the
6:06
equipment and I think made a deal with
6:08
them where they came over and scooped it
6:10
all out sculpted the whole place
6:12
perfectly and they got they got all the
6:14
gravel and sand and everything and my
6:17
grandfather built a beautiful uh
6:20
facility uh for boat showroom at his
6:23
house and I'm growing up as a kid right
6:26
next door literally 40 ft away from my
6:28
grandmother's house
6:30
and I live in my grandmother's house
6:31
right next door I just walk next door
6:34
and um so I was and my father was
6:37
working for my grandfather at that time
6:40
they bought boats and all usually in the
6:43
Detroit area and and Wisconsin my father
6:46
would drive a trailer out there and
6:48
stuff so uh all this is relevant because
6:53
I was soaking this all in I thought this
6:55
is how everybody in the world lived you
6:57
had the successful business and you had
6:58
your house right there and you know to
7:01
me it was amazing you know and U we were
7:04
dirt poor my grandfather was not
7:06
necessarily dirt poor he had he drove a
7:08
Cadillac he went to Florida on vacations
7:11
every year and um he became a criss
7:15
craft dealer he had Johnson outwood
7:17
Motors and the business was the timing
7:20
was just so perfect because all the
7:22
people buying the boats had all gone
7:24
through World War II and prior to that
7:26
they had gone through the depression so
7:29
when the early 50s came along and they
7:32
had employment and they had jobs that
7:34
were paying more they want to have fun
7:37
and they went came down to my
7:38
grandfather's and my grandfather didn't
7:39
have to sell the boats the boats sold
7:41
themselves and and we had like 52 dock
7:44
slips there so it was a social event too
7:47
every weekend it was like literally 50
7:50
there's maybe sometimes a hundred people
7:52
there with their boats and their
7:54
families and they'd come down and they'd
7:56
go out for the whole day with the boat
7:58
and everything it it was just an amazing
8:01
time so about 1956 this is where the
8:04
cars come into the picture my
8:06
grandfather had this idea of uh buying a
8:11
boattail car and using that as an
8:14
advertising tool for his business so
8:17
what better to God buy than auin
8:20
Speedster well he looked around and I
8:22
think it was local he found somebody
8:24
that had three Auburn at this time
8:26
they're only 20 years old so um little
8:30
maybe a little more than 22 years old so
8:32
he got a 34 auin cabet which is
8:35
unbelievably nice car a 35 auin
8:39
Speedster and a 35 auin faton all three
8:43
cars 900 bucks yeah and and the the the
8:47
34 cabet was a running and driving car
8:51
yeah so uh he flipped the Cabret to one
8:54
of his boat customers at the time it
8:56
just uh he just finished U law school
9:00
and he had a little Century in board
9:03
that he was docking there and my
9:05
grandfather turned him on to vintage
9:07
cars and he became a lifelong vintage
9:09
car guy and he just died at like 96
9:12
years old two years ago and he had you
9:14
named the car he had it so my
9:16
grandfather really set the hook in good
9:18
on the vintage car stuff so my
9:20
grandfather um the skill set of
9:22
restoring a car is pretty close to
9:25
restoring a boat all the boats were
9:27
mahogany that time you had to rebuild
9:28
the m you had to refinish the mahogany
9:31
uh you had to reupholster them so all
9:34
those skill sets were already there and
9:37
my grandfather operated his business
9:38
mostly with part-time help and he would
9:41
employ and he never did much he was just
9:44
a businessman he was pretty much hands
9:46
off I probably didn't see him work
9:48
himself physically working more than 20
9:51
hours and and the whole time you know I
9:54
was in his presence you know but he he
9:57
would give people instructions and stuff
9:59
and was pretty simple work restoring a
10:01
car then was really simple when he
10:03
bought the Aubin I was 5 years old so I
10:06
remember the car and he always had it he
10:09
he sold that one and he bought another
10:11
one and restored that one and then he
10:13
had another one so he just loved Aubin
10:16
and when you see an Aubin Speedster they
10:18
only made like a 35 they only made like
10:20
a hundred of them so they were very rare
10:22
a lot of people never saw him so he had
10:25
no intent of going into the restoration
10:28
business or anything it just something
10:29
he had to do is restore this car and uh
10:33
there were pots Avail available because
10:36
the the the remains of the auin cord
10:38
dusenberg company had been bought up and
10:41
eventually went to Broken Arrow
10:43
Oklahoma um where this guy Glen prey uh
10:48
bought all the the the pots and stuff so
10:50
you could buy and just about any part he
10:52
had all these Barns and um you know he
10:56
if you needed a tail light or something
10:57
he had it so so it was and the the
11:01
Restorations they were just old cars and
11:03
they had been taken care of they might
11:05
have had a few dents in them and the
11:07
upholstery needed to be done over and it
11:08
was just so happened that my grandfather
11:10
had this upholstery guy who did the wood
11:13
the the boat of the upholstery so uh he
11:16
took over the upholstering uh aspect of
11:19
it so all new leather interior new
11:21
leather top and the paint we we were
11:24
spraying all kinds of stuff anyway so
11:26
that was no mystery there and restoring
11:30
the motor was no mystery it's a
11:31
supercharged straight 8 and it has a
11:34
dual ax dual ratio rear axle it's it's
11:38
really cool stuff and it's way Advanced
11:41
so the auin C dusenberg company was just
11:43
so great and um so my grandfather sold
11:47
the faton off sold the Cabret off and he
11:50
probably owned the Speedster for nothing
11:52
so he gets it done it probably took him
11:54
I don't know maybe a year or two and
11:56
then he joined all the clubs he joined
11:58
the Au and C dusenberg club and their
12:01
big meet is in September in Aubin
12:03
Indiana so him and my grandmother would
12:06
drive out there in the late 50s and um
12:10
show the car off and so he met a lot of
12:12
people and U then his boat customers saw
12:16
the car driving around the yard and
12:18
stuff and they drove really nice and
12:21
they sound nice they they just so
12:23
amazing it's like they came from out of
12:25
space or something it's the styling is
12:28
so great on them so so I was spoiled
12:30
right from you know the get-go that you
12:32
know I thought all cars are like this
12:34
but um uh so anyways next thing you know
12:38
we had a couple people asking him to
12:40
restore the car and he's already got
12:42
this flourishing boat
12:44
business and um some reason well the bo
12:47
the bat business was April to September
12:50
right and then in the winter you you
12:52
winterise Motors you you restore the or
12:56
or refinish mahogany boats you reholster
13:00
him and all that but he'd lay off a lot
13:03
of his part-time help and they had
13:05
Skeleton Crew and so a good way to keep
13:09
all of his staff keep going this was a
13:11
good way to keep all of his staff going
13:13
throughout the
13:14
winter he says J I don't know how it all
13:16
happened but he said I'm gonna I'm gonna
13:18
start a restoration business yeah so my
13:21
grandmother died in 1959 when I was
13:24
eight years old so my grandfather who's
13:27
my step-grandfather is not blood and
13:29
then he remarries like three months
13:32
later so my world was rocked at this
13:35
point because a new much younger woman
13:37
comes in she was like 20 years younger
13:39
than my grandmother he marries her and I
13:42
used to live in my grandmother
13:43
grandfather's house now I'm no longer
13:46
allowed over there she doesn't want me
13:48
over there really I mean I can go over
13:50
there but after a while I was a nuisance
13:52
and then there was a gate that I had to
13:55
go through and there was a lock on the
13:56
gate you know so U um but my grandfather
14:01
was the only grandfather I ever knew so
14:03
I treated him like my grandfather but
14:05
now my grandmother's out of the picture
14:07
it's not the same so um but I had full
14:11
access to everything you know and he he
14:14
didn't actually even call me grandson he
14:15
called me Rick you know so um I I was
14:19
always industrious and uh for money I
14:22
needed needed money so I had three paper
14:25
Roots When I was like 10 years old you
14:27
know and uh I always worked I never had
14:31
any aversion to work at all so now I got
14:33
an opportunity to work at my
14:35
grandfather's not when my grandmother
14:36
was alive I mean I worked with my
14:38
grandmother doing some tasks and stuff
14:41
but I never got paid for it but now I
14:43
got a situation where I can work for my
14:44
grandfather after school and and and uh
14:48
get paid for it so I got like 50 cents
14:51
an hour I was 12 years old I mean I
14:53
mowed the lawn I he had a big old um
14:58
six-wheel Drive Dodge uh Power Wagon
15:01
from World War II and we put a big boom
15:03
on it so you could lift Wes up and stuff
15:06
the docks and stuff to put the barrels
15:07
under them and and we pulled motors with
15:10
it and all kinds of stuff so I learned
15:12
how to drive that and I'd snowplow the
15:14
yard the yard was like I don't know
15:16
couple acres or something it was all
15:18
gravel and everything was great except
15:20
for the gravel yard you know so um
15:24
anyways uh the the the task that I'd be
15:29
uh assigned would be bo business which
15:33
was running simultaneously so like 12 13
15:37
14 years old I'm I'm outboard mechanic
15:40
yeah and so I learned mechanics by
15:43
fixing Johnson outboard motors you know
15:45
and it was pretty simple I mean change
15:46
Spock plugs change points and then one
15:50
day I'd be doing that and the next day
15:52
I'd be paint removing on a Rolls-Royce
15:54
or something wow my grandfather made
15:56
good decisions as to what ca he made a
15:59
mistakes that you couldn't bring in a
16:01
loow dollar car and restore it because
16:06
you couldn't give him a good restoration
16:07
he was charging $25 an hour at this time
16:10
we're talking the early 60s he
16:12
eventually went up to I think $35 an
16:15
hour and um so which is a fairly
16:17
significant jump like 10 10 bucks an
16:19
hour on 25 is what that 40% well that
16:22
that took like probably in the 70s that
16:24
that he went up to
16:26
35 and and there was high inflation and
16:29
70s too in the early 74 five the
16:33
inflation was really bad yeah so um
16:38
anyways uh so I never knew what I was
16:40
doing I always had asked for the
16:42
assignment and uh he would he would give
16:44
me the assignment and and and I did all
16:46
the grunt work on the Restorations I
16:48
would be doing paint removing sand
16:51
blasting and then later I got to
16:54
dismantling and then I convinced him
16:56
because I watched the other guys we had
16:57
a couple painters and I I watched those
17:00
guys and said okay I can paint right so
17:04
I learned from those guys and I would
17:06
paint small pots like chassis pots and
17:08
brackets and stuff like that with a
17:10
spray gun and uh I got better and better
17:13
and I could disassemble and I kept track
17:15
of things and uh I could reassemble the
17:18
first car he gave me to actually do a
17:21
lot was when I was I think was about 16
17:23
years old and uh it was a Cunningham and
17:28
there's two cunninghams one Briggs
17:30
Cunningham was which is from he's from
17:32
Connecticut super wealthy guy that did
17:34
sailing and all that stuff and then he
17:36
had the cars down in uh West Palm Beach
17:39
Florida I think it was and race cars and
17:41
all that stuff but there was another
17:43
Cunningham company out of Buffalo New
17:45
York so they had a V8 motor and we got a
17:49
Cunningham Restoration in and um like it
17:53
wasn't a super valuable car but the guy
17:56
wanted it restored or something it was
17:58
an open Payton and uh my grandfather
18:01
signed me to job and it got painted a
18:04
white and black color was nothing really
18:06
to write home about and we didn't have
18:08
the motor he had somebody else do the
18:10
motor but I took that all apart I
18:12
cleaned it all up and repainted and
18:15
assembled most of it when I was like 16
18:17
but that was probably the first job that
18:19
I've ever ever did and uh my grandfather
18:23
saw that I could do this so I was doing
18:24
mechanics I was doing restoration all
18:27
the aspects of restoration painting or
18:30
whatever this is where this is where you
18:32
got your skills this was the very
18:33
beginning is what you're saying well
18:34
these are yeah these are the infancy of
18:36
the skills and then you what happened
18:38
was as my grandfather's building
18:40
business grew in like 1963 he landed
18:44
this local
18:45
multi-millionaire a guy that was born
18:47
with a S silver spoon and I don't think
18:49
he ever worked in his life his father
18:50
had built the business and um somewhere
18:54
along the line he decided he was going
18:56
to start a car collection so he bought
18:58
his property with a big barn and he
19:01
started buying cars and he found my
19:03
grandfather and the first thing he
19:05
wanted was a dusenberg a j dusenberg so
19:08
we hadn't had at dusenberg in in the
19:10
shop we had packets and stuff like that
19:12
and and that Cunningham well actually
19:15
the Cunningham came later but uh we had
19:17
some pretty significant cars but now we
19:19
got a A Jay dusenberg my grandfather
19:21
went out and bought it for him went to
19:24
an auction or something and bought it
19:25
and it was like 1963 and drags it back
19:29
well you know they only made uh a run of
19:32
500 dusenberg chassis yeah and that was
19:35
in like 1928 that they did it so the
19:39
dusenberg story is so amazing I mean it
19:41
should be a movie about it it's just
19:43
it's terrible that there isn't um and
19:46
and once you see a dusenberg your whole
19:48
life change you know so I mean it's so
19:51
incredible miss his a car designed in
19:54
1928 it's got a straight eight motor
19:57
with double overhead cams four valves
19:59
per cylinder some of them had
20:01
superchargers with a supercharger with
20:03
320
20:05
horsepower you know so it's just
20:07
absolutely a mindblower and you just see
20:09
the way the whole thing's put together
20:11
it's it's very very solid I mean
20:15
technically Advanced as far as the motor
20:17
goes the chassis it was just a big heavy
20:20
truck chassis I didn't personally have a
20:22
drive one but I think you know didn't
20:24
have power stering or in you had to be
20:26
moving to ster it and um
20:29
and they probably weren't the best cars
20:31
to drive like car today would outperform
20:33
it by miles but um it was just so
20:37
prestigious yeah and most of them were
20:39
all coachbuilt right and meaning um
20:44
bought commission yeah they sent the
20:46
chassis out the chassis would include
20:49
the fenders which were stamped um the
20:54
cowl um the the radiator shell
20:59
and the cowl would be just a firewall
21:01
not not the actual sheet metal so and
21:04
the cow the firewall was a a big giant
21:07
casting it was all polished towards the
21:09
engine it's just gorgeous stuff yeah and
21:12
this the story of it I don't know if
21:14
it's ever been told but you know the
21:17
dusenberg brothers Fred nogi was just an
21:19
amazing amazing story and it should be
21:21
told and I think it's great much better
21:24
story than Enzo Ferrari story or
21:26
something but it' probably never be told
21:28
you know know unfortunately maybe Nobody
21:30
Knows the intimate details but the
21:32
dusenberg brothers were failures as far
21:35
as business goes so uh C ended up buying
21:39
the dusenberg assets and they he brought
21:42
them in as employees and they designed
21:45
everything and it it was sort of like
21:48
they were following the dictate of of
21:51
cord um who who who wanted the most
21:56
prestigious car and he wanted it to be
21:57
an American and he had nobody the best
22:00
people to do it with Fred and Auggie
22:02
dusenberg yeah so uh they they basically
22:05
had a blank check probably to do stuff
22:07
but um cord was dictating how it was
22:11
going to happen so uh it's an amazing
22:14
thing if Fred had his way it would
22:16
probably would have been so much better
22:18
but that said I mean there's nothing
22:20
like it I mean at that time there was no
22:22
car made in the world as good as a
22:25
dusenberg I mean there's there's a of
22:27
franchis and hispanos swers and
22:29
rolls-royces that are in in the
22:32
neighborhood but they can't outperform
22:34
in dusenberg So what at what point in
22:37
your early stages did you realize you
22:40
know what coach building is more my
22:41
thing less or so on the mechanical side
22:44
point at that point I had no idea
22:46
absolutely no idea I was more entranced
22:50
with the the mechanical end of it and
22:52
stuff and um and and then uh what
22:55
happened was the one dusenberg begat
22:58
another dusenberg so next thing know we
22:59
always have like six duesenbergs in the
23:01
shop now we had a couple packets we had
23:03
a couple studes we had a couple Bentley
23:06
and rollers but it was always the
23:08
Topline cars that we were dealing with
23:11
and that's if you're going to be in
23:12
business you have to be dealing with the
23:14
better cars so that um you have
23:18
customers that can pay you it's that's
23:20
the whole deal you know and I was
23:22
totally oblivious to the economics of it
23:25
uh my grandfather was handling that you
23:27
know and actually one of the topics of
23:29
the the show today was the economics of
23:31
the co craft we'll swerve into it so so
23:35
anyways
23:37
um uh my grandfather hired a guy in and
23:42
well uh what happened was um my
23:46
grandfather made all these connections
23:48
with people in the in the the the the
23:50
dusenberg circles and the pack of
23:52
circles and everything and there was a
23:54
couple dealers at that time uh Leo Gart
23:58
from from Ohio he was like one of the
24:01
biggest guys out there buying and
24:03
selling cars and he had started in like
24:05
1950 buying and selling cars and then
24:08
another guy I don't know too much about
24:10
but his name was Tiny Gould he was a big
24:12
heavy guy hence tiny and uh they both
24:16
approached my grandfather and said look
24:18
I've got a dusenberg chassis can you
24:21
make a body so that was a pivotal moment
24:24
because there again is the motivation to
24:27
do something you have to do it on
24:29
somebody's nickel so these guys were
24:31
willing to pay my grandfather to get a
24:33
body made so um my grand at that time
24:39
late 60s early 70s you could hire
24:42
skilled help locally no problem you know
24:45
so the the bodies are ash wooden frame
24:49
uh bodies and we had one that was called
24:52
a Durham torer was owned by one of the
24:55
customers U this guy Puchi from
24:57
Connecticut who owned restaurants and he
25:00
had at least a dozen duesenbergs and uh
25:04
you know he just kept feeding one after
25:06
another to be restored and one of them
25:09
was this uh Durham torer and Durham was
25:12
a company out of Rosemont Pennsylvania
25:14
which is outside of uh
25:17
Philadelphia and they were in business
25:19
for almost I don't know 80 years or
25:21
something like building all kinds of
25:23
Coach building stuff and uh they were
25:26
famous for building these Durham Tes
25:28
which I think they made six of them Gary
25:30
Cooper owned one and uh at that time in
25:34
the club in the Au and C dusenberg Club
25:36
they were considered one of the best
25:38
designs it's a very minimalist design
25:41
the body is super simple so that worked
25:45
in my favor my grandfather we had no
25:47
skills we had no tools no skills or
25:49
anything but he could hire the woodwork
25:52
is to copy the wood in a structure which
25:55
defined the body and you didn't need any
25:59
bucker or anything and and uh so we had
26:02
a mechanic uh local guy who had a
26:05
brother who was an auto body guy and we
26:08
ended up hiring him and um he was very
26:12
uh resourceful and he he wanted to learn
26:15
how to do this so he learned how to gas
26:17
weld aluminum and he actually made the B
26:20
the Skins around the wood in structure
26:23
that these three Woodworkers that we
26:25
hired so I'm absorbing all this stuff I
26:28
used to work with the Woodworkers and
26:30
they taught me a lot of that stuff so I
26:32
know how to do all that stuff and I
26:35
watched Franny was doing the the panel
26:39
work and the panel work there was no
26:41
such thing as an English wheel we didn't
26:42
know what an English wheel was or a
26:44
power hammer or anything like that we
26:46
had no tools I mean zero it was just
26:49
hammer and Dolly and now is it because
26:51
is it that you didn't know what they
26:53
were because they didn't exist in your
26:55
location well yeah they were few and
26:57
five between them my grandfather was a a
26:59
victim of the depression he would not
27:01
spend any money right uh we just had no
27:04
tools the only tool that was decent he
27:05
bought a pretty decent big band saw
27:08
because the the Woodworkers insisted
27:10
that he buy this band saw so other than
27:13
that it was we didn't have a bending
27:14
break in the shop you know and um at
27:18
first the shop we took over the boat
27:20
part of the shop but then he ended up
27:23
selling that part of the property to a
27:26
company that wanted to put condos on and
27:28
they built these condos and we moved
27:31
into a 5,000 square foot Warehouse that
27:34
we used to store the boats in and that
27:37
became the restoration shop which still
27:39
exists and uh it actually still
27:40
functioning with one of the last
27:42
employees of my grandfather who's done a
27:44
really nice job and um he he uh did a
27:49
lot of duesenbergs too after my my
27:51
grandfather passed on in like
27:53
82 so
27:56
um did you guys ever track where those
27:58
duesenbergs went I'm sure they've been
27:59
dispersed over the years oh yeah they
28:01
got they they went everywhere they
28:02
probably sold 20 times since then you
28:04
know so uh anyways my grandfather had
28:08
this this H potential of building these
28:11
bodies and now the process is on
28:13
underway and we got two or three bodies
28:15
being built at once and Fran's hammering
28:18
away with a hammer and Dolly to put a
28:20
little bit of crown in the door skins
28:22
and stuff and uh the tops of the doors
28:25
are Hammer formed around the wood you
28:27
just knel aluminum and Hammer form it
28:30
around so I didn't really learn too much
28:33
there as far you know just hammer and
28:35
Dolly work and I never any good at it so
28:38
what happened was and this is where I
28:40
come into the picture I mean I'm doing
28:43
all these jobs there I didn't do any of
28:44
the skinning at all I just watched I
28:47
made a lot of little parts and stuff and
28:50
um you know I always kept busy so my
28:52
grandfather hired this guy who uh came
28:55
in uh and he was 20 years older than me
28:59
and he was into Jags and like uh some of
29:02
the Fords the 34 Ford 35 Ford and stuff
29:05
like that so he had a couple of the
29:06
Fords and he had like 20 Jags or 18 Jags
29:11
and he had u a lot of acreage in a rural
29:14
area with an old farmhouse and his wife
29:18
worked and and he didn't he never worked
29:21
so he just played with his cars and he
29:24
decided he was going to learn something
29:26
by coming to work at my grandfather so
29:28
my grandfather hired him and he only
29:30
worked for about a month or two but we
29:32
became good friends we had really good
29:35
conversations and he told me because he
29:38
was a Jag guy he wanted to build a c
29:40
type Jag and he had it all planned out
29:42
in his head how he was going to do it
29:44
and he told me you got to get this thing
29:45
called the English wheel you know and I
29:47
might have heard the term before but he
29:49
says yeah you can make this English
29:51
wheel you know and and he he he was very
29:55
lazy so he never ever made an English
29:57
wheel why at that point so he planted
30:01
the seed so I worked for my grandfather
30:04
until
30:07
1975 and I felt that at 75 I was 24 and
30:11
I felt that my grandpa's was getting
30:13
older okay maybe I could take the
30:15
business over you know and he could
30:17
Mentor me to to run the economics of it
30:20
but because he wasn't blood it didn't
30:23
happen so I had to go off on my own and
30:25
I never made any money there you know he
30:28
always did pretty well again he was he
30:30
always had a brand new caddy and always
30:32
taking vacations and stuff and he had he
30:34
didn't have to work so U that that was
30:38
my my my learning curve you know I
30:40
learned a lot about restoration a little
30:42
bit about shaping and my friend Joe who
30:45
had the
30:46
Jags um he he taught me that you know
30:49
you need this English wheel and 75 I
30:53
leave and I think I'm going to start a
30:56
restoration business well I got money I
30:58
have no money and so next thing that
31:02
happens is a couple years go by and I
31:05
get this opportunity to buy this
31:06
property well I still don't have any
31:08
money but I got a great opportunity to
31:10
buy a piece of property and uh it's on a
31:13
nice US Highway the same Highway that my
31:16
my com my building is on now that I I
31:20
lease and um welltrack Road it's it's an
31:24
old road it's called the Boston Post
31:26
Road Route 20 and it goes actually goes
31:29
all the way to Washington State crosses
31:31
the country it was one of the first
31:33
transcontinental uhh roads and um so I
31:37
bought a property on with two acres and
31:40
I'm going to put up a restoration shop
31:42
and I bought the property with owner
31:45
financing and um I I hooked up with my
31:49
wife we weren't married at the time we
31:51
bought it when we're unmarried and I
31:53
said what are we going to do you know so
31:56
first I went to work for a dealership
31:58
with my father work my father had left
32:00
left my grandfather's and he became a
32:02
car salesman so he says to me he says
32:05
well you know you don't have money for a
32:06
building why why don't you just you know
32:09
you get a lot there and you get good
32:10
exposure why don't you buy and sell cars
32:12
I says well I don't know anything about
32:14
that so all I knew was I knew how to fix
32:17
cars so I say okay I'll do that for a
32:19
couple years make some money and put a
32:20
building up so it turned out I did it
32:24
for like eight years I learned how to
32:26
deal with the public and I actually kind
32:28
of enjoyed it and I learned how to do uh
32:31
repairs quickly and I wasn't smart
32:34
enough to flip a car and make a profit I
32:36
had to restore a car and make a profit
32:39
so I fixed them all up I put new brakes
32:41
in them I put new exhaust systems and
32:44
all that I painted them I had a small
32:46
building to work with I had like a four
32:48
car garage and it was really ramshackled
32:51
the town didn't want me working in the
32:52
building but I worked in it anyways and
32:56
uh next thing you know a guy came by and
32:58
offered me a big number for the property
33:00
at that time was huge so okay so now now
33:04
I can buy a brand new house and pay cash
33:06
for it or I can buy a building that was
33:09
my biggest mistake I went I went and
33:11
bought a house and paid cash for it and
33:14
I moved like 20 miles west where you can
33:16
buy a lot more house by moving 20 miles
33:19
so you know I thought I had a pretty
33:21
nice house a nice lot nice nice town the
33:24
best Street in the town and my wife was
33:27
happy she was working and um I says okay
33:31
I'll I'll work out of my two-car garage
33:34
for a little while first I I I was going
33:36
to do restoration so I got a couple
33:38
little restoration jobs and one was a 48
33:42
Lincoln Continental and I did all the
33:45
metal work on that and I had no idea
33:47
what I'm doing I I bought a MIG welder
33:50
uh in the 70s when I was still Linc
33:52
Lincoln Continental it was a Montgomery
33:55
W MIG welder
33:58
and they were made by um uh what the
34:01
what's the century manufacturing which
34:03
is out of Chicago and they made Snap-on
34:06
the same Snap-on MIG welder so it was
34:08
like a Snap-On MIG welder yeah and it
34:11
worked pretty good and I didn't you know
34:12
I learned how to mig weld I I could gas
34:15
weld but uh TIG welding I didn't I
34:17
didn't even consider TIG welding so
34:21
um uh I fixed this 48 linking up for
34:26
this guy did all the panel work on it
34:28
and then the the guy that bought my
34:31
grandfather's 34 cabet became the uh the
34:35
uh uh car collector he had bought a
34:40
1935 uh dual KY Dietrich
34:43
faton um and it's a it's a very valuable
34:47
car and he bought a bunch of pieces and
34:51
it needed to be put all together and he
34:53
had somebody start to do the job back in
34:56
like 1970
34:58
and the GU flubbed it and he put it in
35:00
storage so now from 70 to now it's like
35:03
85 or
35:05
86 uh he offers me the job of putting
35:08
the car together which means I have to
35:09
do all the wood and it was a door
35:12
missing and uh it was a lot of metal
35:14
work the fenders and and the car was
35:17
just a pile of parts that was it yeah so
35:20
uh I put that together for him and I my
35:24
intent was just to do the metal work and
35:27
meanwhile I'm still friends with my
35:29
friend that has all the Jaguars that
35:30
introduced me to the idea of the English
35:32
wheel and he had all these XK Jags I
35:35
came up with the idea of uh making XK
35:39
Jaguar pots which if you had an XK
35:42
Jaguar you had to get him from England
35:45
so I figured well the shipping cost must
35:47
be you know too high so I'd have a big
35:49
advantage and who else was going to make
35:52
them so somebody had to make them right
35:53
so I'm in my twocc car garage and I
35:56
figured oh this is a nice little
35:57
business I I'll grow it out of here I
35:59
did a little bit of restoration work but
36:01
then I the restoration work went away
36:03
the packet was down in the basement I
36:06
had a two car garage down the basement
36:09
as well and I finished the packet up
36:11
down there as much as I could and U that
36:14
was an ongoing job for a year or a year
36:16
or two maybe putting it all together and
36:19
then meanwhile I started this mail a of
36:21
business through Hemmings making XK
36:24
parts and I had all these samples that
36:27
my friend had let me this have the
36:29
sample so I had a reverse engineer all
36:32
skill sets I learned at my grandfathers
36:33
I knew how to measure measuring is the
36:35
most important thing if you don't
36:36
measure right you're not going to get a
36:38
pot proper so I I decided that I didn't
36:42
want people buying my parts and having
36:46
them calling me up saying my God this
36:49
pot doesn't fit and what are you gonna
36:51
do about it you know so I made sure that
36:54
I did him really nicely yeah and um I I
36:57
built an English wheel at Ron for's book
37:00
had come out and I looked at a picture
37:01
of a fabricated English wheel and there
37:04
I say oh I can make that and I had my
37:06
monk arm reward MIG welder and I had a
37:08
stick welder and uh it was 4x4 quer inch
37:12
wall tubing I made it an English wheel
37:15
and I I made it with a straight up um a
37:19
straight up um bottom Anvil holder so uh
37:24
as I started making the Jag Poots I I
37:26
found out that
37:28
uh you don't want that you want a caned
37:30
lower arm because your panels always hit
37:34
that that upright and it just tore the
37:37
panels up tore the machine up and stuff
37:39
I said if I ever make another wheel I'm
37:42
gonna have a caned low around so uh and
37:46
in a top adjuster I put on it that was a
37:49
kind of a fluke but I I soon determined
37:52
that it was so much easier to use a top
37:54
adjuster than trying to kick that bottom
37:56
adjuster right so uh this was all pre-
37:59
internet and I had nobody to ask for
38:02
when I'm building these Jag pods and I
38:04
thought people would be calling me
38:06
looking for all Fender repairs new
38:09
fenders and all this stuff and uh you
38:12
know ultimately I had no idea what I was
38:14
doing on that stuff on the on the the
38:18
fabricated inner structure like The
38:19
Rocker Sills and the floorboards and all
38:22
that I can figure that all out uh that's
38:25
all breake Bend stuff I bought a breake
38:27
and and I had that all under control but
38:30
now to make the compound curve stuff uh
38:33
I had to learn by videos well videos
38:36
were starting to come out and um there
38:39
was a guy in Florida um uh cal cal Davis
38:45
and he was a auto body guy he was in I
38:47
think mclenny Florida or something him
38:49
and his wife Joyce they started a little
38:52
business and they befriended John Glover
38:54
who was the English trained patent
38:57
wheeler
38:58
and he' worked for General Motors in the
39:00
Prototype Department he' worked for the
39:02
havin aircraft and uh he was a superb uh
39:07
English Craftsman so they did videos of
39:10
him and we're really coming into the era
39:12
here of of of she metal education like
39:16
this is kind of the this is the
39:17
Grassroots we're coming into the era of
39:18
she before that it was shrouded or well
39:21
yeah be prior to this is like from 18
39:24
1985 on yeah to 1985 no but nobody knew
39:29
how to do this other than a handful of
39:31
racing guys and and maybe you know I
39:34
would say probably less than 50 people
39:37
in the whole country yeah and oftentimes
39:39
if like Briggs Cunningham when he had
39:43
his facility in West Palm Beach Florida
39:45
if he needed somebody that knew how to
39:47
do she metal shaping they would import
39:49
an English Craftsman and have him live
39:51
there and work for them and um you know
39:54
that's just how it happened and a lot of
39:56
the big shops probably did that they
39:58
they bring bring this outside labor from
40:00
England in and and then then that solved
40:03
the problem but by 85 the the the whole
40:06
scene of the collector cars and we're
40:08
talking the Upper Crust the collector
40:10
cars the Rolls-Royce the Bentley's the
40:12
duesenbergs the packets the P arrows all
40:15
that stuff the value was Rising so much
40:19
that and you couldn't find pots anymore
40:21
so now that was the stimulus to learn
40:24
these new skill sets so the restoration
40:26
shop now they had to make a fender they
40:29
couldn't buy one at Hershey anymore they
40:32
no longer existed right so they had to
40:35
learn the skill sets and uh I I heard uh
40:39
Bobby Walden's uh interview the other
40:42
day that when you did I watched it and
40:44
he went to Scott Knight and he he
40:47
mentioned that Scott Knight was alumni
40:49
of California metal shaping and he was
40:53
sort of like the font of a lot of this
40:55
spread of information
40:57
and I never went to his class but I did
41:00
see a video he started videoing some of
41:02
his first class and and and a a a a guy
41:06
here actually in the town I'm in
41:08
Charlton had a restoration shop and he
41:11
went to one of his classes and had the
41:13
the video and I watched the video and I
41:15
learned a ton from that I could see how
41:17
he's operating both his classes and how
41:20
what he was doing and
41:23
um after after he started teaching one
41:26
of the the students was Fay Butler and
41:28
then Fay Butler started Dent which just
41:30
so happens that um my friend Joe who had
41:33
all the Jags somehow got to know Fay
41:36
Butler and he told me oh this guy's got
41:38
these big hammers and you got to come
41:40
out and see him and all this so I went
41:41
over there and I saw his Hammers and I
41:44
knew my situation with the garage and
41:47
FaZe got a class on at that time and
41:49
he's trying to get me to go to the class
41:51
but I says there's no way he he doesn't
41:53
have an English wheel he doesn't know
41:54
anything about English Wheels I says I
41:57
can't put a hammer in in my
41:59
garage so uh I just didn't have the room
42:02
for it and I wasn't ready to launch out
42:05
of the garage yet as it turns out as a
42:08
big error another big error in my life I
42:11
spent 25 years in that garage in those
42:15
25 years we're learning all the the the
42:18
nuts and bolts of how to do shaping so
42:21
my my medium was XK Jaguar stuff and uh
42:26
I you know
42:27
I I compare it to like the Beatles going
42:29
to Hamburg that's when they became
42:31
musicians because they played like six
42:33
to eight hours a day every day and that
42:37
repetition is where you really learn and
42:40
um you know that really hammered at home
42:43
to me and uh had this substandard
42:46
English wheel and um the next thing was
42:51
uh how can I speed things up a little
42:53
bit well the enticement of the hammer
42:55
it's always the hammer can make things
42:58
go faster well I opened up a auto
43:01
automobile quarterly that I found
43:03
somewhere and it had a picture of an
43:05
Italian style Hammer which is this uh
43:08
the Big Arm deal Sosa Metal Works makes
43:11
one now they call it the
43:14
uh the what shap Matic shap Matic yeah
43:18
but this is real small L and stuff I
43:20
made I made mine look like what the
43:22
Italians did with a wooden
43:23
arm it's and it's real slow as the far
43:26
as the Hammer really
43:28
controllable and uh any shape part that
43:31
I made uh after I made that I made that
43:34
in like 93 because I would pound them
43:37
out all by hand but after I I built that
43:40
hammer and learned how to use it and it
43:42
took me a year to to learn it didn't
43:44
take up any space because it uses the
43:47
floor as a structural element you just
43:49
bolt it to the floor and um it has quite
43:52
a wallup and I figured out you can
43:54
shrink with it so you can stretch and
43:56
Shrink at will and you don't need
43:59
special dyes or anything I just used
44:01
delin dieses and in fact I used uhmw
44:04
dieses at that time which is cheaper
44:06
than delin and uh I could I could pop
44:09
out the the Jag panels pretty quick and
44:12
this was all discovery on my part and um
44:16
you know what was happening at that time
44:18
was um it was the the the powerhammer
44:23
community was grow Leaps and Bounds
44:25
because the perception was the English
44:27
wheel is super slow and the power hammer
44:30
is super fast right so a lot of people
44:33
went to the power hammer and it kind of
44:35
ignored the potential of the English
44:37
wheel well not only did I build that
44:40
Italian style Hammer just from a picture
44:43
it took me a month to build it and um
44:46
you know my skill sets back in 933 and
44:48
not like what they are now so it worked
44:51
okay and it it's never failed I still
44:53
could use it tomorrow if I want to and I
44:56
decided did that the little the wheel
44:58
that I had made which had like I don't
44:59
know 40 inch throat or so I was going to
45:02
make a monster so now I went to the
45:04
scrapyard we had three scrap yards
45:06
really close by and I bought all these
45:08
eye beams and tubes and all kinds of
45:10
stuff and I made this 57 inch throat
45:13
English wheel and um I had the idea that
45:17
a wider top wheel was a much better
45:20
thing than a standard 3in wheel uh as
45:24
soon as I made the the new top wheel
45:26
which I did make it I went to the scrap
45:28
yach and I found a a really nice
45:31
hardened wheel that I could use I just
45:34
had to put baronss in it and the first
45:36
one I had I think was pretty concentric
45:38
I didn't have to do too much to it but
45:41
then I had to make bigger anvils and I
45:43
had a little lathe that I bought and it
45:45
was really pushing the the limitations
45:48
of that lathe and I made new anvils and
45:51
once I started using this is like night
45:52
and day yeah you know so people compare
45:55
English Wheels to power hand
45:57
that's apples and oranges when when you
45:59
have proper English wheel with proper
46:01
tooling now you're on the same uh
46:04
playing field with the power hammer well
46:07
the power hammer can shrink like crazy
46:09
with the thumbnail die you can't shrink
46:12
with an English wheel but there are
46:14
other ways to shrink and so I I I had to
46:16
learn how to other ways to shrink one of
46:18
them was on my Italian style Hammer um
46:22
that I could shrink pretty easily with
46:24
that but I could you could only shrink
46:26
in about two 2 inches with a power
46:28
hammer with a thumbnail dial you can go
46:30
you can technically go in you know
46:32
whatever the throat is on the power
46:34
hammer but but in practicality you never
46:36
shrink that far in all you need to do is
46:39
shrink you know two to six inches or so
46:43
depending on the situation the panel
46:45
you're making and that speeds up the
46:47
event quite a bit so if you have the
46:50
ability to shrink the edges uh that
46:53
that's a good thing so um I used my
46:58
Italian style power hammer for years to
47:00
shrink with and um that worked fine for
47:03
the for the Jaguar parts all the shrink
47:05
marcks totally came out the panels were
47:08
perfect there's a difference between the
47:10
thickness and the in the crown of the
47:13
panel it might be you know four or 5
47:15
thousand of an inch thinner and it might
47:17
be two or three thousand thicker On The
47:19
Edge on a Yoda uh or power hammer the
47:23
the thickness of the center of the panel
47:25
can maintain all almost what you start
47:27
with you might maybe lose a thousand in
47:29
the final planish or whatever but your
47:32
Edge thickness might go up four or 5
47:34
th000 so um that's the only difference
47:38
and um it it's IM material as long as
47:41
the panel that you make and pass the the
47:44
dent resistance test which is to hit it
47:46
hard with your knuckles and not make a a
47:48
mark on it because you can easily Dent
47:51
any Automotive panel so but if you can
47:54
resist a good wrap of the knuckles
47:57
that's Pro positive you're doing the
47:59
right thing you're not you're not making
48:01
the panel totally by stretching it so
48:04
you have the ability to sh stretch and
48:07
shrink and I love the way the English
48:09
wheel planish is out and the fact it
48:12
doesn't make any noise so that was a big
48:15
factor for me I I te I couldn't make
48:17
noise in my two-car garage how close
48:20
were your neighbors were they CL I had
48:21
one neighbor he was about 100 feet away
48:24
and they were never there I could have
48:26
probably made noise and my I had my
48:29
Italian hammer in my twocc car garage
48:31
and my daughter went for a walk down the
48:33
side street and it was about a quarter
48:35
of a mile away and the guy said to my
48:37
daughter what's your father doing in
48:39
that garage he makes a lot of noise so I
48:42
says oh so I moved the hammer down
48:44
into the basement which he couldn't
48:47
couldn't hear then Soh it was a little
48:50
inconvenient I had to walk down the
48:51
basement for that but it wasn't that bad
48:54
of course I ruined my knees going down
48:56
all the steps I need I need two knees
49:00
now 25 this was for 25 years right 25
49:03
years going up and down steps yeah so so
49:06
anyways um I worked I I I got better and
49:09
better and better um but you know I was
49:14
making a moderate living you couldn't
49:16
you couldn't hire anybody I had a couple
49:18
helpers pot time helpers under the table
49:21
type of stuff and um they were my
49:23
daughter's friends they were cutting
49:25
pieces out punching holes and all that
49:28
and then I bought a CNC plasma cutter
49:31
and that was $10,000 and that made a big
49:34
difference is now I can make English
49:35
wheels so I figured oh I could
49:37
supplement my income I'll start making
49:39
English
49:40
wheels and I designed a nice roundish
49:44
English wheel and I found out quickly
49:47
that uh it was too labor intensive to
49:49
make and it was impossible to make any
49:50
money on it but it was great having the
49:53
plasma cutter because I can make all
49:54
kinds of different tools and and U
49:57
brackets and all kinds of stuff um but
50:00
that was a that was a big step forward
50:02
spending the money on that plasma cut
50:04
and then um the plasma cutter became the
50:08
the source of how I could make shrinking
50:10
disc the shrinking disc have been my my
50:12
little money maker through the years so
50:15
I started making shrinking D it was
50:17
actually Scott Knight who gave the
50:20
classes who I don't know who came up
50:22
with it or he did or somebody knows or
50:24
whatever he started selling the
50:26
shrinking do which are now sold by
50:27
sunchaser tools uh what's his name u
50:33
yakamoto p Sakamoto yes yeah who worked
50:36
for Scott Knight in the early years and
50:38
he bought the shrinking disc business
50:40
from him I guess no so the I bought two
50:43
two shrinking discs from from uh from
50:46
Scott Knight back then and uh it came
50:48
with a little mimig graph thing that had
50:51
these Ruffles on the edges that you run
50:53
it on the concrete floor to to kill the
50:55
outer edge because otherwise it'll tear
50:57
up your panel and um and then as the
51:01
internet came in everybody in 95 uh the
51:05
internet came in for everybody and I
51:09
helped start a group called metal
51:11
Shapers and um then then metal meet I
51:15
started with a friend in uh he did all
51:17
the web work uh uh Dave Miller from um
51:21
Nashville and in exchange for working on
51:24
his Lotus he he built the site for me
51:27
and um that was like building the first
51:29
community of Shapers and stuff it was
51:31
fun but um I got fored out pretty quick
51:34
because people uh get really nasty on
51:37
forums and I just I didn't have time for
51:40
it and I was spending too much time on
51:42
the Forum I I tend to go overboard on
51:45
stuff so so anyway early early 2000s
51:49
yeah the metal Shapers uh started at
51:52
2000s then I organized uh with u George
51:56
King who was from Huntsville Alabama his
51:58
father had this basically a billion
52:01
dollar company and he had a beautiful
52:03
7,000 square foot uh play shop and and
52:07
Tom lipon who has a really cool YouTube
52:10
channel uh called Ox Ox tools he's a
52:14
machinist a perb machinist the three of
52:17
us put together a plan that we'd all go
52:19
to Georges and we ended up having I
52:22
don't know about 60 people or something
52:24
from the metal metal meat no from the
52:26
metal shet Pap site go to Huntsville and
52:28
I think we did the Huntsville thing two
52:30
years and I was trying to get everybody
52:32
to scratch build cars and uh we we
52:36
scratch built a couple bodies and but it
52:38
was a crazy mess and um it was a lot of
52:44
fun uh the first one was fun the second
52:46
one was fun and then we moved it to um
52:50
uh Illinois with one of the guys we met
52:52
from Huntsville who had a big five acre
52:56
lot 6 wat Randy Ferguson he well we can
52:59
have it in my y so I say okay he had a
53:02
big building but he didn't have access
53:03
to the whole building so we rented a
53:05
tent and we had the metal meat in a tent
53:09
and um that's a whole funny story is
53:12
that one year um the tent that rained uh
53:17
for like um a week before the event and
53:21
the ground was all soggy and it was
53:23
probably like three three feet of top
53:25
soil there so they said what do you want
53:28
what Stakes do you want you want the the
53:30
short Stakes or the long Stakes well it
53:31
was more money for the long stakes and
53:33
Randy opted for the short
53:35
Stakes so we got this enormous TI it's
53:38
like 200 feet by 100 feet in his
53:41
backyard with like 135 people in it and
53:45
it's all muddy so we've put this straw
53:47
down we're talking like a hundred bales
53:49
of straw we had to buy put on the ground
53:51
and people are grinding and spars are
53:54
going waiting happen so um this is I
53:59
think
54:00
2004 and um we had different lectures
54:04
and stuff and there's a couple guys that
54:06
came in gave lectures I gave lectures on
54:09
how to do this how to do that and we
54:11
were still in that infancy I mean
54:13
everybody was still learning at that
54:15
time and uh I didn't really know how to
54:17
present really well at that time either
54:19
I was very shy and um the the the one
54:24
guy from Washington State to decided
54:26
that because it was getting hot in the
54:28
tent he was going to lit the sides up he
54:30
lets the sides up and there's like these
54:32
gusts of 50 mph winds coming into the
54:35
tent and blowing the tent up and pull
54:39
Stakes out and there's like a hundred
54:41
people at least inside this tent and the
54:43
tent collapsed on him oh
54:46
no nobody got hurt yeah amazingly but
54:51
the local TV came out and video and all
54:54
kind of stuff and we rolled this tent up
54:57
and there was these bubbles in the tent
54:58
and I say oh I just hope there's nobody
55:00
in that bubble funny we we didn't have a
55:04
counting or
55:05
anything did you guys have full full
55:07
machines in there too like did somebody
55:08
bring yeah every everybody brought stuff
55:11
and everybody brought trailed you know
55:13
stuff in and then after that they
55:16
decided that they could rent these local
55:18
Fairgrounds yeah and I pretty much had
55:21
it after that and I left uh I went to
55:24
see the fairgrounds but I never actually
55:26
participated in the
55:28
fairgrounds um it it it was a fun
55:31
premise and I was instrumental in
55:32
getting going and I'm sure a lot of
55:34
people benefited from it but it's not
55:36
for me so um I I I started doing classes
55:42
in
55:43
2005 uh people kept saying oh you should
55:46
do classes so I had the classes I was
55:48
still at my house at that time and I'd
55:50
have three people come to do the class
55:52
yeah and they would bring you know this
55:55
rusty old for Defender and we'd spend
55:57
two days taking the rust off you know
56:00
and you know I I was never a Ford guy I
56:03
was always a packet and a dusenberg guy
56:05
you know so I I was probably an leadest
56:07
snob to them but um you know that I
56:11
learned very early that if you're G to
56:14
do this stuff you have to have the value
56:16
and this is where the economics of it
56:18
come in you know so um finally in 2011
56:23
it was time for me to get out of my
56:25
twocc car garage
56:26
so I couldn't afford to buy anything I
56:29
didn't have any money I never never made
56:31
any money but I had a lot of fun you
56:33
know I have no regrets it was a lot of
56:34
fun my my learning curve just kept going
56:37
better and better and better so I was
56:39
able to rent a small building I was uh
56:42
3,000 square
56:47
no yeah 3,000 square feet and it was
56:49
like 1200 bucks a month in an old
56:52
factory building about half an hour from
56:54
my house in Connecticut so it just so
56:57
happens there's a quarter mile racetrack
56:59
right down the street from where this
57:00
building was so I thought oh boy that's
57:03
going to be good all these people would
57:04
come in and my business is going to Roar
57:06
not one of them ever came in nobody
57:08
they're totally uninterested I'd have an
57:10
open house and I'd get maybe two or
57:12
three people come in yeah yeah you know
57:14
so um I started there I had no employees
57:18
it was all by myself and uh the only
57:22
employees I had were those kids working
57:24
under the table part time for me and and
57:28
now became a parent I got a couple jobs
57:30
in that I had I had to have
57:32
employees and you know I was doing a
57:34
little restoration work I was still
57:36
doing Jag work and I was doing making
57:39
trying to make English real so I was
57:40
kind of scattered around and um I knew
57:44
that being scattered around was the
57:46
problem but and I I couldn't handle all
57:48
the work so I I ended up hiring one of
57:50
my first students guy Jack who was
57:53
really good but he was super slow and
57:55
that's a problem with a lot of your
57:57
employees that that they don't work U
58:00
you know with the same speed that you
58:03
you're expecting them or what you would
58:05
do so um the employee situation became a
58:09
big problem always um so uh I worked
58:13
there at that shop
58:15
for um how many years so 2011 to 2015 so
58:21
it was four years I was there and my
58:23
landlord there was horrible so so it
58:26
just so happens that um and I I expanded
58:30
down it went from 3,000 square feet to
58:33
7,000 there was ad joining uh uh shops
58:38
that had just doors and I could open
58:39
them up and now I get 7,000 square feet
58:42
nice so so you know that was good but uh
58:46
I didn't really see how it was going to
58:47
expand the business and um you know it
58:51
was always really on Shaky Ground the
58:54
whole the whole deal and
58:56
you know I knew I could train my
58:58
employees I got Jack and Jack was from
59:01
zero to what I what it he learned from
59:04
me he was really good he had an autistic
59:07
eye and uh but the only thing was he was
59:10
really
59:11
slow
59:13
so I had a problem with the landlord the
59:16
landlord uh Ra was raising the rent and
59:19
you know the place was not premium what
59:21
whatsoever and then it was a 30 mile
59:23
drive every day and I was coming home
59:26
like 12:30 at night and um so I had the
59:30
opportunity to rent this building it
59:32
came up for rent right in the town to
59:34
the uh one town over into Charlton and
59:38
it's a 20,000 square foot building and
59:42
um the landlords are unbelievably good
59:45
landlord you know he's been a landlord
59:47
he he's about eight months older than me
59:49
and uh I didn't I just don't have the
59:51
money to buy a building so um I said
59:55
okay I'm gonna going to rent from this
59:57
guy and he he took a flyer on me he had
59:59
no idea how I was going to pay the bills
1:00:02
so I I I started renting here in
1:00:06
2015 and he gave me a break for like the
1:00:09
first six months but then the rubber had
1:00:11
hit the road and I and I somehow I don't
1:00:14
know how it happened but next thing you
1:00:16
know I had a bunch of jobs in the shop
1:00:18
and I had 11
1:00:20
employes and I couldn't do any work I
1:00:23
was monitoring what everybody was doing
1:00:26
all the time and usually it wasn't up to
1:00:28
my snuff so I quickly learned that if
1:00:32
you act as the shop manager they all
1:00:35
hate
1:00:36
you and you need a shop manager you know
1:00:40
if you watch the boy cotting and show
1:00:42
Dwayne was the shop manager everybody
1:00:45
hated Dwayne well if you're gonna have
1:00:47
an efficient shop you need a bulldog
1:00:50
like Dwayne in order to keep things
1:00:52
going and you got to stay uh in posure
1:00:55
you got be like the Supreme Court you
1:00:57
got to weigh what Dwayne say says versus
1:01:00
what the employee says and then you come
1:01:02
out on top if you act like Dwayne the
1:01:06
employees all hate you right right right
1:01:08
so it that was a struggle and a real
1:01:11
learning curve and my skill set uh
1:01:14
wasn't really being used I was more
1:01:16
managing at that time so that that went
1:01:18
on for like two or three years and
1:01:20
slowly but sure um the attrition set in
1:01:23
so customers didn't want to spend money
1:01:26
or whatever and the job's finished and
1:01:28
no customer replaced the ones that got
1:01:30
finished and um you know next thing I
1:01:33
know I had four employees or three
1:01:35
employees so now I've be getting by with
1:01:38
two employees with a couple part- timers
1:01:40
here and there so I have um two
1:01:43
full-time employees and two part-timers
1:01:46
now and what did you prefer now that
1:01:49
you've seen both sides of the coin you
1:01:50
had 11 people I would love to have a
1:01:53
shop with like 15 people that had the um
1:01:57
the the the the the mindset to learn
1:02:00
more every day and to get better every
1:02:03
day but that's an impossible dream
1:02:05
that's what I found out so my my class
1:02:09
has started in my two-car garage with
1:02:11
three people I think the most I ever had
1:02:12
was five people at my twocc car garage
1:02:16
and U generally everybody left pretty
1:02:18
happy um but then I had the classes down
1:02:22
in Connecticut and they got a little bit
1:02:23
bigger they got to seven or eight people
1:02:26
now I'm in a 20,000 square foot building
1:02:28
with a lot of cars in the shop and
1:02:30
everything and the biggest class I had
1:02:32
was 23 people yeah and it turns out that
1:02:36
class was the most efficient class I've
1:02:38
ever had and it was just me there was no
1:02:40
helpers or anything and uh you know I'd
1:02:43
have to run 90 miles an hour to to keep
1:02:46
everybody happy and the funny thing
1:02:48
about teaching that I found was that
1:02:51
nobody asks any questions all through
1:02:53
the years I Tau I could on the my hands
1:02:57
how many people asked a good question
1:03:00
you know they were just afraid to ask
1:03:02
questions I don't know what it is and
1:03:05
I'm I'm like a question machine if I if
1:03:08
I went to any type of class they would
1:03:10
get so sick of me because I'd ask so
1:03:12
many questions it be you know I just
1:03:14
bury them in questions right and that's
1:03:17
the way I learn but the good thing about
1:03:20
the classes was I learned to another
1:03:23
level totally because um they made
1:03:26
mistakes that I never made and you have
1:03:29
to learn how to correct those mistakes
1:03:31
for each student so um it it it was a
1:03:35
really fun process learning how to
1:03:37
correct those mistakes and I knew once I
1:03:40
learned how to correct all those
1:03:42
mistakes my skill sets were getting
1:03:43
better and better and better sure you
1:03:45
know so but the problem is how do I
1:03:48
apply my skill set in a business that
1:03:52
will make money because everybody thinks
1:03:54
you're making a lot of money doing
1:03:55
classes well it's tough to make money
1:03:57
doing classes too now it was super
1:04:00
disruptive because it took basically a
1:04:02
week out of every month because I had
1:04:05
prep time before to set the shop up for
1:04:07
the class prep time and cleanup time
1:04:09
after yeah and you know meant moving
1:04:12
jobs around moving benches around and I
1:04:15
mean I have a big shop and I I I at that
1:04:17
time I had like 12 English Wheels now I
1:04:19
got like 15 English wheels and I got a
1:04:22
power hammer I made and um you know and
1:04:25
and I teach a method that's totally
1:04:29
different than anybody else's it's a
1:04:31
method that I learned and how did I
1:04:33
learn it well I learned it by
1:04:35
observation I learned how the English
1:04:37
work I learned how the Italians work a
1:04:40
little bit of how the French were and
1:04:43
how the Americans were and I kind of and
1:04:46
and then I had 25 years of making those
1:04:48
Jag panels so I put it all together and
1:04:50
I got a pretty good system yeah and I
1:04:53
came up with a lot of Innovations one
1:04:56
the wide top wheel uh in flexible shape
1:04:59
pattern the flexible shape pattern came
1:05:01
up from when I was making the Jag pods
1:05:03
it's an amazing tool and it's not used
1:05:06
probably more than by 10% of the the
1:05:08
metal shaping Community out they
1:05:10
probably never no idea about a lot of
1:05:12
them don't have any idea about a wide
1:05:14
top wheel the vantages of it versus you
1:05:17
know to stand it and a lot of them think
1:05:19
that a cast English wheel is the way to
1:05:21
go and a lot of them think that you have
1:05:24
to English Wheel by doing patent wheel
1:05:27
and that's that's what the way I learned
1:05:29
with John globber was patent Wheeling
1:05:31
right and and uh I tried patent wheel
1:05:34
and I found it super boring I said
1:05:36
where's the where's the power hammer at
1:05:38
you know because it's so boring so I I I
1:05:42
called it Jazz Wheeling because when I
1:05:44
found that i i u patent wheeled meaning
1:05:48
all the the the tracks on the panel have
1:05:51
to be closely spaced just like mowing a
1:05:53
lawn M and if I did that I'd always end
1:05:56
up with low spots here and there and I'd
1:05:59
have to learn how to correct them
1:06:00
anyways so I thought learning how to
1:06:03
correct deficiencies in a panel was a
1:06:06
better skill set than trying to perfect
1:06:08
it right from the get-go ah interesting
1:06:10
so so I was blowing the panels out
1:06:13
shrinking and stretching them on my uh
1:06:16
my Italian style powerhammer I built
1:06:19
this really cool big powerhammer I never
1:06:21
use it I I I could sell it but I and I
1:06:25
didn't use it much in the classes a lot
1:06:27
of people wanted to see it but I knew
1:06:30
that they would never have the money or
1:06:31
the space to do to put that up yeah so I
1:06:34
do I do still have it because I can
1:06:37
shrink thicker Metals with it and I can
1:06:40
use it for architectural stuff and and
1:06:42
sculptural stuff which I've used it a
1:06:44
little bit but I hardly ever use it and
1:06:47
I don't use the pullmax I have a pullmax
1:06:49
a friend of mine gave gave me a trump
1:06:52
machine which is not as good as a pull
1:06:54
I've had three p in the past I sold them
1:06:57
all and I have two planishing Hammers
1:07:01
and I only used the planishing hammer
1:07:03
like 5% of the time and a big Discovery
1:07:06
like two years ago was a small English
1:07:09
wheel I had one of my students was
1:07:11
building an alphao in fact you worked on
1:07:14
I think part of the reender or something
1:07:17
and he he say you know if we had a small
1:07:19
wheel this would really help because
1:07:21
there was a lot of detail work that so I
1:07:23
made up a little 2-inch uh upper die and
1:07:26
a two inch lower die in a small little
1:07:28
frame with about 18inch throat it was a
1:07:31
it was a breakthrough yeah it's it it
1:07:34
does exactly what the planishing hammer
1:07:36
does but so much better because every
1:07:38
time I used the planishing hammer I
1:07:39
walked away disappointed it fixed one
1:07:42
problem and created
1:07:44
another um but you know it has its value
1:07:47
I still use it but probably only 1% of
1:07:49
the times the pullmax I'm not big guy on
1:07:52
on um beads uh everybody's into beads
1:07:56
and and you know the cars and stuff I
1:08:00
worked on didn't have
1:08:01
beads um so uh if I wanted to make a
1:08:04
bead yeah I can do it on my tipping
1:08:07
wheel uh I can do it on a bead roller I
1:08:09
can do it on my trump machine so I have
1:08:11
a couple options but I've had that Trump
1:08:13
machine since like
1:08:15
2012 I bet you I haven't used it more
1:08:18
than three hours since 2012 I had Matt
1:08:21
salaman on the show and he said you want
1:08:22
to get ray really upset get him to talk
1:08:24
about a pull for a little while get them
1:08:26
get them really fired up get them
1:08:28
mad they're great machines but I don't
1:08:31
think you really need them you know and
1:08:33
I always get my class to the guy that's
1:08:35
building his stuff at
1:08:37
home and uh he's got limited space
1:08:40
limited budget and if you start filling
1:08:43
the your small space up with a pullmax
1:08:46
and a powerhammer you're not gonna have
1:08:47
any room to work you know and you don't
1:08:49
need it you don't need it and and my my
1:08:54
uh
1:08:55
uh biggest influence was probably how
1:08:58
the Italians make the bodies and now
1:09:00
when I came to the realization that the
1:09:02
Italians um they were really hammered
1:09:05
they had gone through the depression
1:09:06
they had gone through musolini they had
1:09:08
gone through the war and they come out
1:09:10
of the war and they had nothing except
1:09:12
for 2,000 years of skills that have been
1:09:15
passed down through their family so they
1:09:17
have a culture similar to the Chinese
1:09:20
where it's bred into you almost and they
1:09:23
got a great aesthetic sense all of ital
1:09:25
is beautiful everything's beautiful the
1:09:27
landscape's Beautiful the buildings are
1:09:29
beautiful the streets are beautiful the
1:09:31
women are beautiful you name it
1:09:32
everything's beautiful in Italy so um
1:09:35
they they Revere Beauty so when it comes
1:09:38
to cars their cars are beautiful and uh
1:09:42
they they learned through probably from
1:09:45
the Roman days that you could do
1:09:46
anything with sheet metal and you don't
1:09:48
need tools to do it so U they had a flat
1:09:52
Big Slab of metal there was probably
1:09:55
World War II scrap that they ground flat
1:09:59
and um that would be their planishing
1:10:01
tool and then they had a big ass stump
1:10:04
that might be three feet or four feet in
1:10:06
diameter that's their shrinking and
1:10:08
stretching tool and it had wooden
1:10:10
mallets and a couple auto body tools
1:10:13
Hammers and and a couple dolles and and
1:10:16
a and a gas welding setup and they could
1:10:18
build anything all the great Ferraris
1:10:21
and Maseratis and Lanas they were all
1:10:24
built the ones that are most valuable
1:10:27
were built by hand like that and it
1:10:30
wasn't only until the the uh late 60s
1:10:33
they started stamping stuff out and they
1:10:36
didn't stamp the Italians didn't stamp a
1:10:38
whole Fender out and it was mostly you
1:10:41
know Fiat money that came in uh or
1:10:45
bigger contracts or whatever and I just
1:10:47
I didn't realiz realized um just you
1:10:50
know like a year ago so I had I bought
1:10:53
this auto body shop from uh uh from
1:10:57
Boston area out and and I got a a brand
1:11:01
new uh G GTB Fender from the 1966
1:11:06
Ferrari and it was made by penen FIA
1:11:09
yeah and and I saw all the pieces in I
1:11:11
says wow they're handmade all those
1:11:13
pieces but and the wells were perfect
1:11:16
and they look like they were they're
1:11:18
Fusion Wells because there was little
1:11:20
openings here and there and at the time
1:11:23
I was doing a video on this Austin NE
1:11:25
shroud that I got from the same company
1:11:27
it was
1:11:28
all uh dented so bad it was all waded up
1:11:32
and I I straightened it out and and in
1:11:35
my comments of my YouTube channel uh guy
1:11:38
said well you know hey didn't make those
1:11:40
shrouds for the Healey Jensen did and
1:11:43
Jensen stamped them so it was like eight
1:11:46
pieces in it and I figured oh that look
1:11:48
at that they made little dieses and they
1:11:50
stamped sections and then they jigged it
1:11:52
up I don't know if you ever seen
1:11:53
Mercedes or Porsche
1:11:55
how they put the panels together they
1:11:57
have these exoskeletons of Steel yeah
1:12:00
and they got a little spot and they got
1:12:01
it all clamped together and they gas
1:12:03
welded them yeah and that's probably
1:12:05
what they did with uh the Jensen did
1:12:08
with his Healey shrouds the aluminum
1:12:10
shrouds and so after seeing that that
1:12:14
that was stamped it became obvious to me
1:12:16
that that's what pen and frenia was
1:12:18
doing on these quarter panel that I that
1:12:20
I had that the P they were partially
1:12:23
stamped and then welded together
1:12:25
and that's how they they got their their
1:12:27
productivity
1:12:29
up um if you're building you know
1:12:31
onesies or maybe 10 of something it's
1:12:35
very very difficult to make money and uh
1:12:38
one of the best uh shops in Italy they
1:12:41
had the the most the B the boldest
1:12:44
designs was scaglietti shop sure which
1:12:47
he was a friend of of Enzo and he got
1:12:50
these juicy race car jobs it Enzo would
1:12:54
have a
1:12:55
a chassis brought over there and this
1:12:57
and scagg atti Shop would knock out a
1:13:00
body in a week there's probably seven
1:13:02
guys and uh I had two Danish students
1:13:06
come and they told me they went to Italy
1:13:09
year after year after year and they
1:13:10
couldn't get into any of the shops and
1:13:12
they found this guy that open the doors
1:13:14
for everybody and they met this guy uh
1:13:17
Jan Carlo Gera who was like the number
1:13:21
one hire at skagle Yeti and he was the
1:13:24
one that actually built like the GTO and
1:13:28
and the tester Rosa and the California
1:13:31
all these icon ferari designs that are
1:13:34
worth multiple millions in the case of
1:13:37
the GTO Ferrari we're talking
1:13:38
potentially a hundred million dollar car
1:13:40
now uh and and he was doing the work
1:13:43
scaglietti got the credit right how was
1:13:46
he doing the work um there's like four
1:13:48
videos online in YouTube and if you know
1:13:51
Italian it's even better but there's one
1:13:53
I think it's translated or something but
1:13:55
it's it's an interview of Gian Carlo
1:13:57
Guera in 2019 just before he died and um
1:14:03
you know he he he takes credit for all
1:14:05
those cars and I don't doubt it because
1:14:07
after he left skagle Yeti he started his
1:14:09
own shop and he had an assembly line and
1:14:13
and these two Danish guys took the
1:14:14
pictures and they gave me all the
1:14:16
pictures showing G's shop and it
1:14:20
assembly line and making GTO and and and
1:14:23
and and tester Roes and and they were
1:14:26
using lesser Dolly Ferrari running gear
1:14:29
and Chassis and converting them into the
1:14:31
more valuable GTO and stuff so you know
1:14:35
that the Italian method was the one that
1:14:38
held out the most appeal to me it's slow
1:14:41
but they made up for it by having seven
1:14:43
people do it and and I read that it took
1:14:47
more time to actually do the body work
1:14:50
after the body was built they filled
1:14:52
them and I don't know if they were using
1:14:54
Bondo at that time is Bondo came Bondo
1:14:57
came out in the
1:14:58
mid-50s um but they they they had other
1:15:00
other ways of filling the bodies but it
1:15:03
took more hours to actually get the the
1:15:05
the body smooth and painted than it did
1:15:08
to actually make the aluminum panels
1:15:11
really and and and they they used a
1:15:13
wireform system to create the lines and
1:15:17
then they used a super leara system
1:15:18
which everybody copied from touring
1:15:21
Coachworks and um and is this why you're
1:15:24
so Co wire form over a wood Buck oh yeah
1:15:27
yeah yeah the wood bucks The Mystery of
1:15:30
the wood bucks is also um when people
1:15:33
say wood Buck
1:15:35
um it's a Wood Station buck and then a
1:15:38
wood Buck totally different animals a a
1:15:41
a wood Buck that's made out of hardwood
1:15:44
hardwood that's used as a hammer form to
1:15:46
ensure Symmetry and to ensure um the
1:15:50
pots really fit that's a totally
1:15:53
different animal like for instance
1:15:55
Cobras were made on a solid wooden Buck
1:15:58
the the back end and the front end were
1:16:00
solid wood and uh you've ever seen the
1:16:04
still existing wood Cobra Buck it's all
1:16:08
splined up and they fixed it with Bondo
1:16:10
through the years and stuff and um
1:16:12
there's just so much to learn from both
1:16:15
the English and the Italians and the
1:16:18
Americans pretty much coach building
1:16:20
went away except for a few outliers you
1:16:23
know it was like Durham
1:16:26
lasted to like 70 um in in Pennsylvania
1:16:30
and then there was a couple guys on on
1:16:32
the west coast and a couple guys in
1:16:35
Indianapolis you know those are the only
1:16:37
guys that knew how to do anything did
1:16:39
the Americans really modernized the
1:16:41
stamping process for production purposes
1:16:43
whereas the Europeans maybe kept coach
1:16:45
stamp stamping came out in from the
1:16:48
Dodge Brothers when when the Dodge
1:16:50
Brothers and Ford broke up in like 1914
1:16:52
or something they Dodge Brothers were
1:16:55
machinists and they saw that you had to
1:16:58
mechanize as much as possible and it was
1:17:00
a company called Bud Manufacturing in um
1:17:04
in Philadelphia and they built these big
1:17:07
stamping presses and that's that's where
1:17:10
it all started and so the bud presses
1:17:13
eventually migrated to Germany Germany
1:17:16
became the leader in stamping and then
1:17:18
it migrated to Japan they're the leaders
1:17:20
in stamping but now it's probably
1:17:22
Chinese uh the Chinese have buil more
1:17:25
cars than anybody today and it's all
1:17:26
stamped you know so going back to the
1:17:30
economics of of of of of building
1:17:32
handbuilt cars the Italians could tell
1:17:35
you the most because they built a lot of
1:17:37
them and nobody got rich all the
1:17:39
companies went to fun if you didn't
1:17:42
transition from doing onesies and
1:17:44
Tuesday to hundreds and then to hundreds
1:17:46
of thousands and the only way you can do
1:17:49
that is with lots of capital so um you
1:17:53
know uh those C that they made Italians
1:17:56
made the most beautiful designs probably
1:17:59
the most handbuilt cars of anybody that
1:18:01
built handbuilt cars and they prove to
1:18:04
be the most valuable and the workmanship
1:18:07
on them is not top-notch and the
1:18:10
collectors like the fact that it's not
1:18:12
top-notch they like to see the human
1:18:14
mistakes I don't get that I'm I'm I'm
1:18:17
I'm always going by the designers intent
1:18:20
designers do not see uh imperfections in
1:18:23
their finished car they want them to be
1:18:26
absolutely perfect but um collectors go
1:18:29
into numbers and they go I I never got
1:18:32
into that mindset
1:18:34
whatsoever um the big concors like
1:18:37
Amelia Island and Pebble Beach I do not
1:18:40
understand that at all the fact that you
1:18:42
know I've had 61 years of experience in
1:18:45
this collector car business and I can
1:18:48
look at a car and I know absolutely
1:18:50
nothing about it even though I know a
1:18:52
lot about it so how can these guys that
1:18:55
they got a suit on and a hat and they
1:18:57
got a clipboard and they're going to be
1:18:59
judging the quality of your restoration
1:19:01
to me it's just Madness I just don't get
1:19:04
it you know so that's a thing that's
1:19:07
part of the value of the cars you know
1:19:09
if they win Pebble beats they're worth
1:19:11
more or something I don't know so when
1:19:13
you see coach Builders working either
1:19:16
Solo or or or small shops or even some
1:19:18
of the larger shops with bigger brand
1:19:20
names I mean when you think about the
1:19:22
way that they're building cars and the
1:19:23
way that they're coach building do you
1:19:24
see see that as a concern based on the
1:19:27
current economics of the industry or or
1:19:28
how do you see that well it's it's you
1:19:30
can make a living but you can't make
1:19:33
anything more than just a living you
1:19:34
can't build a business the real estate
1:19:37
business you have to follow the
1:19:38
fundamentals of what the interest rates
1:19:41
are what the land prices are what the
1:19:43
material costs are how much your
1:19:45
employees are going to cost you but
1:19:47
there's no problem or there's less
1:19:49
problems getting an
1:19:51
employee and um you know as the prices
1:19:54
go up everybody gets acclimated to the
1:19:56
higher price and you can expand your
1:19:59
business so uh if you wanted to become a
1:20:02
real estate U owner of a hundred
1:20:05
apartment buildings you could you know
1:20:07
my landlord started when he was like 18
1:20:10
and he owns like literally hundreds and
1:20:13
hundreds of acres of land and he does
1:20:16
very very good he's like eight months
1:20:17
older than me I think he hits 74 now um
1:20:20
and he owns like four industrial pars
1:20:24
and he invest he he he nourishes and
1:20:26
invests in a lot of his tenants and and
1:20:30
people that buy buildings from him so
1:20:32
one example is ipg ipg uh was started by
1:20:37
this guy Valentin who was a Russian who
1:20:39
came immigrated from I it might have
1:20:42
been it might have been after the Soviet
1:20:44
Union collapsed and he had Laser
1:20:47
Technology in his head and he he he came
1:20:50
to this area because in this area we
1:20:52
have a thing called American Optical
1:20:54
which was found in like
1:20:55
1880 and and they were like the first
1:20:58
mass American
1:21:00
Mass um mass produced maker of uh
1:21:05
eyeglasses right so they had a lot of
1:21:08
optical engineers and stuff at at AO and
1:21:11
because of that there was the like dozen
1:21:13
spin-off companies around in the area
1:21:17
and and one of them is laser and um this
1:21:20
guy Valentin came over and he needed a
1:21:23
space and he needed funding and my
1:21:26
landlord uh came up with like a 100
1:21:28
Grand himself and got a 100 Grand from
1:21:31
10 of his nine of his friends that was
1:21:34
the first million dollars of seed money
1:21:36
and I think my landlord still has that
1:21:38
stock which is the premium grade stock
1:21:41
you know the company is now a billion
1:21:43
dollar company it's on the New York
1:21:44
stocking chain and they make these ipg
1:21:47
laser welders which are $30,000 and
1:21:51
maybe 35 with all the bells and whistles
1:21:54
and and that's the new thing that's
1:21:55
going to make a big difference in the
1:21:57
craft is the welding quality will go up
1:21:59
I believe and I'm going to get a chance
1:22:01
to use one of those pretty soon it
1:22:03
should are you familiar with the tech
1:22:05
and and the way that it works yet or
1:22:07
it's are you familiar with the
1:22:08
technology and the way that it works or
1:22:09
is no just just watching videos that's
1:22:12
it I've seen a bunch of videos and it
1:22:15
seem seems to be the way to go so I've
1:22:17
got a potential job coming on that's an
1:22:20
aluminum boat job it's a 48t boat and
1:22:24
he's going to buy he he he brought it up
1:22:26
he says I'm buying ipg welder so I'm
1:22:29
going with him and go test it out to
1:22:31
make sure we can weld this aluminum
1:22:33
alloy he's getting which is a salt
1:22:35
resistant alloy so um I I would love to
1:22:40
have a Shop full of scratch buil cars
1:22:43
but I just don't get anybody calling or
1:22:45
knocking on my door to build a four to
1:22:48
$600,000 Bild I I am doing a build right
1:22:52
now of a Ferrari for a guy in Florida
1:22:55
and I'm doing it basically for peanuts U
1:22:58
but um it's you know I can replicate
1:23:01
that job and that will lead to something
1:23:03
and it's really fun doing it it's it's a
1:23:06
a GT Ferrari GTO but it's a 330 which
1:23:10
was the the last run of the gto's last
1:23:13
five I think where and this one was a
1:23:16
oneoff it's got 102 inch wheel base so
1:23:19
it's made as a passenger car not a race
1:23:22
car so give you better a better space
1:23:26
room for your legs and uh less heat
1:23:29
concentration in the cabin and uh with
1:23:32
102 inch wheelbase you get a better ride
1:23:35
and it's the the proportions are better
1:23:37
it's a much better looking car we're
1:23:39
building the chassis first I have an
1:23:42
employee that's building the chassis I
1:23:43
consult with him and next step is going
1:23:46
to be doing the wire form on that and
1:23:48
doing the panels yeah and I'm thinking I
1:23:51
was going to use 063 to do the panels
1:23:54
but my friend Solace um um he he he does
1:23:57
uh that series two cobras yeah he's
1:24:01
probably one of the best guys on the
1:24:03
planet he's a super perfectionist if you
1:24:05
seen his work it's just mind-blowing how
1:24:07
good it is he told me he's using 080 and
1:24:11
I've used the 080 and I just had some
1:24:13
students from um uh RM restoration up in
1:24:18
in Canada come down and they would use
1:24:21
an 080 so and and 080 moves pretty easy
1:24:25
if you need to you can enal it so I
1:24:27
might do that body in aluminum Ian in
1:24:30
aluminum y80 is it because it gives you
1:24:32
file room if you need a file you file
1:24:34
room it's not that more difficult with
1:24:37
177,000 thicker it gives you that little
1:24:40
bit extra and U you know it's a little
1:24:43
difficult to to wire Edge it but you
1:24:45
still can wire Edge it not too hard by
1:24:48
hand you know um so
1:24:52
uh build than the Ferrari I haven't
1:24:55
publicized it all because I don't want
1:24:58
uh a phone call from a lawyer saying no
1:25:00
you can't do that or something like that
1:25:03
and I don't know if you followed the
1:25:04
case of the the guy in Sweden uh who
1:25:07
built a a seat type Jag he always wanted
1:25:10
one his lifelong Jag guy yeah and he
1:25:13
built a SE type Jag and then Jaguar went
1:25:16
after him yeah and they haven't they
1:25:18
haven't done that to anybody else but
1:25:20
they've changed hands a bunch of times I
1:25:22
don't know who initiated it but they
1:25:23
went after this guy he was just you know
1:25:25
maybe an upper middle class guy he had a
1:25:27
million dollars worth of assets he had
1:25:29
to use all his assets to fight Jaguar
1:25:32
right he ended up winning in court but
1:25:34
I'm sure it was a fic Victory because he
1:25:36
lost like two years worth of of his time
1:25:39
and and I'm sure it was not a profitable
1:25:41
deal in any way for him so you know in
1:25:45
Mercedes I've heard many stories of uh
1:25:48
if you bring a Mercedes that's a replica
1:25:50
into Germany they find it they'll crush
1:25:52
it oh yeah so you know they'll go after
1:25:55
you so you know I'd love to do icon cars
1:25:58
and replicate them and I'm doing it with
1:26:00
the GTO but uh it's not going to be my
1:26:04
car um but if you do I I discovered AI
1:26:08
design that's right and I've been on the
1:26:11
AI design kick for about eight months
1:26:13
now I started I think about November or
1:26:16
so at first I had Mark do it because
1:26:18
Mach knew how to run the Mach is my uh
1:26:21
office employee and he does General work
1:26:23
around the shop andu and he's really
1:26:24
good with computers um and I I went off
1:26:28
on that tangent of the AI design and I
1:26:31
said this is the this is the coolest
1:26:33
thing that ever came down the pike and I
1:26:35
mean some of the AI designs are horrible
1:26:37
if you see the initial output that it
1:26:39
sends to you it's all in the cloud and
1:26:42
you you you tell it what you want and it
1:26:44
you know I can I can do 40 designs in a
1:26:47
matter of like minutes yeah and of the
1:26:50
40 designs I only get one or two that
1:26:54
any value the rest of them are really
1:26:56
horrible the proportions are off they're
1:26:58
just really bizarre stuff but then I've
1:27:01
learned how to run the program I had
1:27:02
Mack using the program for like two
1:27:04
months and and it was all through
1:27:06
Discord which is a social media site I
1:27:09
didn't understand why it did why that
1:27:11
but we started using it so much they
1:27:13
made us Alpha uses so now we use it
1:27:16
right on uh mid Journey's um page and
1:27:20
it's pretty simple to use it's not it's
1:27:22
not difficult in any way so when you go
1:27:25
when you go in and do this like for for
1:27:26
an onlooker they see something that
1:27:27
you're posting on your Facebook right
1:27:29
they say oh nice beautiful car so on the
1:27:31
back end how does it actually look when
1:27:33
you're telling the computer I would like
1:27:35
a I would like a roadster of this type
1:27:37
of era like how do how do you prompt
1:27:39
yeah you just write in stuff like that
1:27:41
and you never you don't know what you're
1:27:42
gonna get and the funny thing is if you
1:27:45
do like I do sometimes 20 sometimes not
1:27:48
too often but I can do 40 at a time I'll
1:27:51
do 20 and there might one in the
1:27:55
beginning and one in the end why on the
1:27:57
beginning and end I don't know but I I'm
1:28:00
beginning to believe that I'm I'm one of
1:28:03
their power users yeah I can't imagine
1:28:06
anybody who uses mid Journey more than
1:28:08
me because I've literally done hundreds
1:28:10
of thousands of designs hundreds of
1:28:14
thousands and I I might have got a
1:28:17
thousand Keepers now right right right
1:28:19
and I'm I'm building a library and I'm
1:28:22
trying to monetize it so I'm going to
1:28:24
try to sell prints and it might be
1:28:26
unsuccessful I don't know but the next
1:28:28
step is to get 3D files so you can you
1:28:32
can uh 3D print them and 3D printing of
1:28:37
them U you can you could 3D print a buck
1:28:40
if you have a big enough 3D printer yeah
1:28:42
or or if you're doing it in scale and
1:28:45
you know it came to the realization I
1:28:47
mean somebody actually mentioned boy I'd
1:28:48
like to make models of these you know
1:28:50
and it kind of went in one ear and out
1:28:51
the other but you know after a while I
1:28:54
says man modeling is way way to go you
1:28:57
know and it also factors into the time
1:28:59
we're at is that you know one of the
1:29:02
great things about my classes I got all
1:29:04
this feedback from people I had people
1:29:05
all over the world take my class and
1:29:08
they would tell me that you can't do you
1:29:10
can't build a scratch build car in
1:29:12
Europe you can't build a scratch Bill
1:29:14
car here or there in Australia New
1:29:17
Zealand they just won't let you do it
1:29:19
right so um there's so many limitations
1:29:22
and the government limitations are
1:29:24
getting ramped up more and more and more
1:29:27
and it's going to be here we can do
1:29:29
stuff and you can actually make 400 cars
1:29:32
a year that do not have to pass crash
1:29:34
testing because of SEMA semer lobbied uh
1:29:38
the Congress for years and years and
1:29:40
years and got that legislation passed
1:29:42
about five or six years ago yeah that
1:29:44
you can make 400 cars as a small
1:29:46
producer you have to have the emissions
1:29:49
of the motor that you put into it but it
1:29:51
doesn't have to pass uh crash now as far
1:29:54
as the liability if you scratch build a
1:29:56
car I think the liability is on you if
1:29:58
you sell it yeah so you have to have
1:30:01
some kind of long-term liability you
1:30:04
know some kind of U written agreement
1:30:06
between the buyer and seller too but
1:30:08
those don't hold water generally but the
1:30:11
best thing to do is make the damn thing
1:30:12
safe you know so if you're gonna scratch
1:30:16
with the car you make it safe so you
1:30:19
know I would love to spend the rest of
1:30:21
my days scratch building cars and I put
1:30:23
up like all these designs on on Facebook
1:30:26
and I expected you know a phone call
1:30:28
here and here I've had two phone calls
1:30:31
yeah and both of them were not real they
1:30:34
they they basically didn't understand
1:30:37
the process and all the cost of it and
1:30:39
stuff so I mean to to hire somebody to
1:30:42
build the car for you H depending on the
1:30:45
complexity it's a
1:30:47
$400,000 minimum maybe 300 yeah it
1:30:51
depends on if it's a simple design it's
1:30:53
so you know no fenders it's a Indie
1:30:56
Roadster or something like that you can
1:30:58
maybe do that for 200,000 right but if
1:31:01
you're doing a a really long wheel-based
1:31:03
car with a real elaborate leather
1:31:05
interior and fancy wheels and everything
1:31:08
else it could be5 $600,000 which the
1:31:11
paint's expensive all the materials are
1:31:13
expensive so what about what about
1:31:15
reskinning an existing car taking you
1:31:18
know BMW Z3 or a Miata or something like
1:31:21
this and there's a guy Jim Simpson that
1:31:24
I met he called me and introduced him
1:31:27
I've seen his work on Facebook and he's
1:31:29
been doing that for years right he uses
1:31:32
meatus and he he's done aluminum bodies
1:31:35
and he might have done steel bodies too
1:31:37
but he prefers fiberglass because the
1:31:40
price point of the finished product is
1:31:42
low enough yeah so he promly does
1:31:45
fiberglass which he's not happy with but
1:31:47
that's and I I really don't want to
1:31:49
swallow that that plateful I don't like
1:31:52
fiberglass and I don't want want to work
1:31:54
around the limitations of the existing
1:31:56
chassis I want to build my own chassis
1:31:59
which is a whole odd form in itself
1:32:01
right and you know I that that's still
1:32:04
to be explored to me uh and and U you
1:32:07
can learn a ton but I don't think I'm
1:32:09
gonna get get the chance to do it
1:32:11
because um you got to find that customer
1:32:14
that's willing to spend to
1:32:17
$600,000 and that translates sometimes
1:32:19
into he's going to come up with you know
1:32:21
30 to $50,000 every month for years or
1:32:24
whatever to pay for that car and it's a
1:32:27
it's a crapshoot for him if he buys a
1:32:30
Dave kig Corvette that's made of
1:32:32
fiberglass you've seen those they making
1:32:35
a series of 53 coets he's getting like
1:32:38
$500,000 for them at auction and they're
1:32:42
done really well everything K dig does
1:32:44
is really well but the aluminum one that
1:32:47
they just did that won the Ridler I I
1:32:49
heard the number $3 million bandied
1:32:51
around building that yeah well if you've
1:32:54
got a $3 million budget I mean I I I
1:32:57
could train somebody who's an absolute
1:32:59
new newbie to make a product as good as
1:33:02
what kindy could do if you got that kind
1:33:04
of budget so it's all about the budget
1:33:07
more so than the skill sets or the shop
1:33:09
or anything else if you you've got a
1:33:11
budget you can make things happen so and
1:33:15
I go ahead in your opinion what's more
1:33:17
important the design or the
1:33:19
fabrication um I think the design is
1:33:21
more important than anything the design
1:33:24
has to be superb and I think a lot of
1:33:27
people uh you know want to scratch build
1:33:29
cars or even hot rod projects that are
1:33:32
not up to the up the snuff and that's
1:33:35
what Italians you can learn so much from
1:33:37
the Italians they didn't compromise on
1:33:40
the design now there's some flub Italian
1:33:43
designs there's a few of them I've seen
1:33:45
through the years they're just horrible
1:33:46
beasts but most Italian designs I mean
1:33:49
you could spend all day just looking at
1:33:51
little details I had a off osar you
1:33:54
familiar with Oscar at all no I'm not at
1:33:57
my shop down to Connecticut a local
1:34:00
restorer Gary Co he had a customer had
1:34:03
one of these Oscars Oscar was the name
1:34:06
of a comp Italian company there was the
1:34:09
Maserati Brothers it was like four or
1:34:11
five Maserati Brothers the started
1:34:13
Maserati and they weren't good
1:34:15
businessmen and they got into trouble
1:34:18
and they worked for the new owner they
1:34:20
had to sell it to a wealthy
1:34:22
industrialist and they advised them and
1:34:24
stuff and then after they got their
1:34:26
seven-year Freedom after working for the
1:34:28
new owner they started Oscar when then
1:34:31
they made Passenger cars they made race
1:34:33
cars they unbelievably nice cars right
1:34:36
and nice designs and U they didn't make
1:34:38
the bodies I forget who made the bodies
1:34:42
uh but U there was like a 1960 Oscar or
1:34:45
something he brought down the shop and I
1:34:47
was just blown away I I'm really
1:34:49
familiar with how dusenberg is put
1:34:51
together I know and that was stamped and
1:34:54
you know uh really Advanced methods
1:34:57
whereas the Italians used a lot of
1:35:00
handwork they didn't have the money for
1:35:02
that stuff so they had a beautiful tube
1:35:03
frame chassis and you could just look at
1:35:06
every little bracket and the job that
1:35:08
that bracket was doing to me that has
1:35:10
much as important as the shape of the
1:35:12
fender right you know so the whole
1:35:15
picture the frame the way the motor is
1:35:18
put in there the balance of the car all
1:35:20
that is so important and um that's this
1:35:24
is the enticing and intoxicating thing
1:35:26
of building your own car and all of my
1:35:29
classes I've really tried to tell people
1:35:31
oh forget about that 32 Ford You're
1:35:33
Building you're only building that
1:35:35
because you saw it in a magazine right
1:35:37
build something really cool like the
1:35:39
Italians did you know and a few of them
1:35:42
have it's gone through and I've got
1:35:44
probably about a dozen of my students
1:35:47
that have built some amazing cars and um
1:35:50
you know I think that's the fun part
1:35:52
because this is ultimately is a hobby
1:35:55
yeah but you it's a hobby that you want
1:35:57
to try to not be uh cash negative you
1:36:00
want to be cash positive that's right
1:36:02
and you can be cash positive you know
1:36:05
and there there's people like Chris
1:36:06
rungi uh who is a great example of
1:36:10
somebody with a lot of ambition and
1:36:12
really good marketing skills didn't know
1:36:14
anything and he started out he was
1:36:17
fearless and he's built I don't know 14
1:36:20
cars now or something and his quality
1:36:23
huh Chris was on the show he was a
1:36:25
terrific guest oh I haven't seen that
1:36:27
interview yet yeah so he's he's uh made
1:36:30
some really nice looking cars and he's
1:36:32
in a really good Market the Porsche
1:36:34
Market that's one of the best markets so
1:36:37
um I had the same idea uh of doing that
1:36:41
making a series of cars but I I didn't
1:36:43
know how I I don't have any marketing
1:36:45
skills whatsoever absolute zero so he's
1:36:49
very good at marketing you know and he's
1:36:52
younger uh he's got a really good
1:36:54
situation and he's now he's got family
1:36:57
that's helping out his son is helping
1:36:58
him out yeah I have two sons one's not
1:37:01
interested when I do the other son's
1:37:02
autistic so I never had any family other
1:37:06
than my wife my wife handles the books
1:37:08
and and does the sales of all the stuff
1:37:10
we make the shrinking disc and English
1:37:12
real stuff and stuff but um it's it
1:37:16
contrasts quite a bit from one my
1:37:18
grandfather's and my grandfather's he
1:37:20
had a lot of family members working at
1:37:24
at the at the shop you know and that
1:37:26
that made a big difference if you can
1:37:27
have family members you know um so um
1:37:32
the economics of it uh it's really a
1:37:35
tough sledding to try to build a series
1:37:38
like Chris rungy us doing uh I think
1:37:41
he's successful at it and maybe he's
1:37:43
making good money more power to him um
1:37:46
he's using AI design and some of his
1:37:48
stuff now it's the way to go uh it's a
1:37:51
creativity and a productivity tool and I
1:37:55
get really kind of myed and pissed at
1:37:58
the comments that I get on Facebook
1:38:00
because people are so insensitive it's
1:38:03
just I can't believe you know didn't
1:38:05
their mothers tell them that you don't
1:38:07
have something good to say don't
1:38:09
say so I mean I put these designs I have
1:38:12
I think I have a really good eye because
1:38:15
I've looked at cars for all these years
1:38:17
and I've looked at the top end of cars
1:38:19
and uh I I come up with some pretty good
1:38:21
signs and I know okay I could make it
1:38:23
better but I don't want to spend two
1:38:26
hours on each design that I because I
1:38:28
can't do it I can't afford to do that I
1:38:30
know I can make it better so I put it up
1:38:32
and they go oh the wheel's too close to
1:38:34
the to the fender it's G to rub no
1:38:37
you
1:38:38
know and these not build plans when I'm
1:38:42
putting up I'm putting up a concept plan
1:38:44
concept yeah it's an image it's it's a
1:38:46
stimulator it it's to get your juices
1:38:49
flowing all right so if you're going to
1:38:51
build it you have to make all all the
1:38:53
little Corrections because building a
1:38:56
car is a packaging problem it has to be
1:38:59
structurally sound but you have to
1:39:01
package all the components that are
1:39:03
going to go into it and today if you're
1:39:06
going to build a car and you're going to
1:39:07
charge $400,000 for it it's got to run
1:39:10
and drive really nice so that means you
1:39:13
don't want a vintage experience you
1:39:15
don't want oil leaks you don't want uh
1:39:18
you know all the the problems associated
1:39:20
with the earlier cars you want it to be
1:39:22
super dependable
1:39:24
and uh that that means you have to
1:39:26
factor all that in and so it's a big
1:39:29
complex problem to make a car but on a
1:39:33
beautiful problem so I see the economy
1:39:37
the way it is now is the economy in the
1:39:40
US is is definitely on the downswing the
1:39:43
inflation rate is is is not is not a
1:39:46
good thing it's uh it worked for the car
1:39:48
collecting back in the 70s I saw it
1:39:50
happen at my grandfather's because
1:39:52
people would
1:39:54
buy a stuts and then they'd restore it
1:39:57
and it cost so much but by the time the
1:40:00
stuts was done one or two years later
1:40:02
depending on how fast he wanted it done
1:40:03
other shop it had it had appreciated in
1:40:06
value because of the inflation and the
1:40:10
hurt of restoring the car didn't hurt as
1:40:13
much so even though it was illusionary
1:40:16
there's the value in in a in a collector
1:40:19
car is uh there's most of it is
1:40:22
inflation
1:40:24
and and some of it is a core value and
1:40:27
that you know collectors are are at the
1:40:29
top of the pyramid only going to collect
1:40:31
cars that have core values meaning they
1:40:35
were very rare to begin with uh they
1:40:38
highly desirable because of the
1:40:40
mechanics and the Aesthetics of them
1:40:43
yeah and um you know those are the ones
1:40:45
that are worth a lot of money they have
1:40:47
provenant they were involved in a race
1:40:49
they had a wealthy owner in the past
1:40:52
well that's one of the question marks of
1:40:54
AI design cars are they going to have
1:40:58
any value but you have the example of
1:41:00
Chris R's been so I've been heard he's
1:41:03
getting like 300,000 bucks for his cars
1:41:05
which is a good little number it's a
1:41:07
small wheel-based car maybe he's making
1:41:09
some money there I don't know uh and
1:41:11
then uh kend dig is getting 500,000 for
1:41:14
these fiberglass corette but that's a TV
1:41:17
show TV show is crazy you know it it
1:41:21
pumps the numbers up like unbelievable
1:41:23
able so um it doesn't mean that you know
1:41:26
more if you have a TV show it just means
1:41:28
you have a TV show and and you're
1:41:31
finances are a lot better if you have a
1:41:33
TV show especially has it has longevity
1:41:35
like kcks had so it gets um a regular
1:41:39
what do they call it syndicated when it
1:41:42
gets syndicated uh you can make a lot of
1:41:44
money and I think it's five years or so
1:41:46
before it get syndicated or 200 episodes
1:41:49
or something like that yeah which is
1:41:52
that's a hot threshold AC cross too you
1:41:54
know so there's been a lot of failure TV
1:41:56
shows I I've entertained the idea of
1:41:58
having a TV show but no opportuni ever
1:42:01
presented themselves either you know so
1:42:04
yeah this has been uh this has been a
1:42:06
lot of fun just to be able to have a
1:42:08
conversation with you for you know for
1:42:10
the last little while and your your
1:42:12
knowledge is so vast and so deep and
1:42:13
that's one of the things that I always
1:42:14
respected about you was that you knew
1:42:16
where we've gone right and then you've
1:42:18
taken that history and you've said okay
1:42:19
how can I adapt it to Modern Times And
1:42:21
even coming from you know the of the
1:42:23
duesenbergs and and boat Restorations
1:42:26
and so forth up to today where you can
1:42:28
sit in your office and Hammer out 40 AI
1:42:30
designs of beautiful
1:42:32
cars in a micr second it's that's
1:42:35
amazing and you've adopted that tech and
1:42:37
and you know you brought it in and and
1:42:39
and it's really incredible so for me to
1:42:41
you thank you so much for being on the
1:42:42
show it's been a it's been a TR where
1:42:44
can people find out more about you and
1:42:46
what you're doing with proch shaper well
1:42:48
I have uh three websites um we have a
1:42:51
new website which is only about 1% done
1:42:54
uh Mark makes the websites and it's for
1:42:57
selling uh t-shirts and prints of my uh
1:43:01
AI design cars that's called uh
1:43:05
designbuild
1:43:07
drive.com and then I also have uh www
1:43:11
Pros shaper.int
1:43:23
my YouTube channel which is ww
1:43:28
youtube.com proshaper and I have 315
1:43:32
videos and I've been away from my
1:43:35
YouTube videos for like six weeks or so
1:43:37
now because I'm doing this architectural
1:43:40
job which is eating up all my time and
1:43:43
after I get that done then I I gotta get
1:43:45
back to the video and I'm doing an AI
1:43:48
Alpha Romeo design I'm wire forming it
1:43:51
the way the Italians would do it and I
1:43:54
think it's the the most fun but I think
1:43:57
AI is going to within two years maybe in
1:44:01
a year you there'll be AI not might not
1:44:04
be mid Journey but there'll be another
1:44:06
company that'll start up because
1:44:08
literally a trillion dollars is going to
1:44:10
go into AI uh development and an AI
1:44:14
company will will appear that will put
1:44:17
out a cad drawing and so you basically
1:44:20
put in all your your verbal prompt and
1:44:23
then your Dimensions that you want the
1:44:25
color you just totally Define the thing
1:44:28
and it'll spit out a 3D revolve CAD
1:44:31
model which you can do anything you want
1:44:33
with that's a build model and then then
1:44:36
it can get modified probably with the
1:44:38
program too because everything you build
1:44:40
the first time or or the first concept
1:44:44
is got a lot of problems that need to be
1:44:46
amended so uh I think AI holds the the
1:44:49
greatest promise but um it's a
1:44:52
productivity in a creativity tool and
1:44:55
and anybody that's in the business
1:44:56
should be playing with it and anybody
1:44:59
wants to build one of my designs can go
1:45:01
on and look at my my designs on Facebook
1:45:04
uh and and and copy one of them there's
1:45:06
no copyright infringement or anything
1:45:09
like that um but now I'm I'm attempting
1:45:12
to have a company make a 3D file and I'm
1:45:17
really interested in especially if the
1:45:19
economy crunches up really bad building
1:45:22
models creates a price point that
1:45:24
everybody can afford so uh you know
1:45:28
there's been some really famous modelers
1:45:30
that have made classic cars through the
1:45:31
years I can't remember their names off
1:45:33
the top of my head but they've done
1:45:35
these superb jobs where they use brass
1:45:38
and they hand Hammer all the fenders and
1:45:40
the body and they make they make the
1:45:42
motors and it's just unbelievable you
1:45:44
know there thousand hours in them or
1:45:46
more and uh all those skill sets are
1:45:48
exact same skill sets you would do if
1:45:50
you were building the C full scale so
1:45:53
modeling brings the price point down
1:45:55
quite a bit I could teach classes on how
1:45:58
to do that over over the Internet so I
1:46:01
think you know I'm going to evolve with
1:46:04
AI and uh Furniture holds a lot of
1:46:07
appeel to me too you don't have to worry
1:46:09
about Road worthiness with furniture and
1:46:11
stuff so uh I don't know how many more
1:46:13
years I get my retirement plan is my
1:46:15
last hotbeat
1:46:18
so I love to work I mean I work from 900
1:46:21
in the morning to 11 o'clock every
1:46:23
single day seven days a week so it it's
1:46:26
it's fun you know so awesome awesome
1:46:30
well happy this how to make money at it
1:46:32
that's the question that's the question
1:46:34
well happy Independence Day uh thanks
1:46:36
for tuning in to the sheet metal shaping
1:46:38
podcast don't forget to like share
1:46:39
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