[EP 47] Interview with Steve Brown from Trixter, Def Leppard, Ace Frehley, Always Jovi

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Okay guys, in the next episode of Denim and Leather podcast, uh we have a legendary guitar player and singer for
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me from uh from my youth, from Trickster. I used to listen to them a lot in the '90s. Uh from Death Leopard,
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from Ace Freely Band and a lot of other projects.
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How are you? Hi everybody. Great to be here and uh greetings from freezing New
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Jersey. It's a cold day. I woke up today 0 degrees, man. And my
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heat in my house was messed up. So, I'm just thawing myself out. I took a hot shower. So, I am ready. I'm ready to
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talk some rock and roll. Of course, man. Also, I didn't mention the new project of yours, Always, Joy.
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But we're gonna talk about it now. Uh yeah, you you're in your studio now, right?
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I am, man. This is the uh this is the world famous Mojo Vegas 6160 where uh
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I've been making records and music here for the last 30 plus years and uh definitely one of the greatest
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investments I ever made in my life with the my Trickster royalties. So uh yeah,
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this is the house that Trickster built. Wow, man. Awesome. And and I and I and I heard a story about uh about how you
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told AV and Helen that that it's 6160, not 5150, right? Yeah. Yeah. Tell me why why did you why
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did you name it like that? Just, you know, because Ed had 5150, Ed
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and Al, that was their thing. And it was always my dream. Um you know, making the
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first Trickster record, I became obsessed with making records and wanting to be a producer. Um, before we made the
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first Tricks the record, I wanted to be Eddie Van Halen, Richie Sambbora, um,
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you know, Randy Rhodess, great guitar player, great uh, songwriter, whatever. But making that record afterwards, I
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wanted to be Mut Lang, Bruce Fairburn, Bob Rock, you know, the great producers.
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I became obsessed. So, it was my dream to be able to build my own studio and be able to kind of mimic what Ed and Alex
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had at 5150 to where they could make music whenever they wanted to. And so,
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when I built this studio, when I was building it, I'll never forget I went up to see Ed. He was playing, they were
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playing, you know, a couple hours away. And we went up to we went up to the show and I remember telling him, "Man, yeah,
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I bought a house and building a studio." And and uh and he goes, "Oh, you're building a studio what?" to make demos.
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I go, "No, man. I'm building a real, you know, 24 track digital studio to be able to make records. You know, Trickster,
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we're going to record all our records there." You know, I got tired of relying on engineers and stuff that never made
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my music sound the way I wanted to sound. So, I wanted to take control and be able to, you know, fiddle the knobs
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and crank the compressors and make make it sound like the way I hear it in my head. And, you know, and I and I go,
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"Yeah, man." And I I told him I said, "Yeah, and you so I named my studio 6160 cuz you got 5150." And he like took a
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drag off here and goes, "What is what is 6160 mean?" And I go, "I have no idea,
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man, but it sounds [ __ ] cool." So there you go. Great, great, great, great. Uh, and uh,
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did you did you go to uh, how did you master uh, the the the producing stuff?
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I mean you are a guitar player, you are a singer but uh but how did you master
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the sound uh engineering thing? Uh did did you did you went on some courses or
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it was all selftaught? No. And and remember there was no YouTube back then. You know now you can
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learn everything that you ever want to learn on YouTube. Um for me it was you
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know luckily I had you know I I I knew about recording. You know, when we were making the first Tricks record, when we
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got our deal, uh, my managers bought me like a little small fourtrack recording
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setup to make all the demos that wound up being the songs for the first album. And so I knew a little bit, but when I
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built this studio and I bought a, you know, a big 24 track Mackie board and I had these TASM digital 88 machines, it
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was a big learning process. And it was, you know, calling everybody I knew that were engineers to come over and help me.
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And um, I had a guy, his name was Jean Porfido, who did some work on the here
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record. He was a local awesome sound guy. He used to be Jolan Turner, sound guy back in the 80s for the Jolan Turner
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so solo band. And uh he was the one who really taught me all about engineering
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and EQ, how to make things sound proper, you know, and uh huge huge teacher in in
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learning that. And then it just was trial and error, man. It's like anything else. You just keep going until you get
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it right. And believe me, I blew up a bunch of sets you of speakers and made
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all the mistakes that everybody makes. But again, it was, you know, one of the greatest educations, you know, it was me
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going to, you know, sort of going to college, man. And and I will say, you
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know, uh, 30 plus years later of being an engineer and producer, every day I learn something new and it's still
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exciting for me. You know, I was just working before I did this interview. I was just working on I'm producing uh
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Lorraine Lewis, her new album, Fem Fatal, her new record. And working on some new songs, a new song that me,
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Lorraine, and Tommy Hendrickson from Alice Cooper's band wrote. Yeah. Yeah. I heard I heard the single.
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I saw the the video. It It's amazing. Uh by by the way, also Lorraine was my
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guest last year on the show. Love Yeah, she's amazing. Uh and uh okay
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you can you can actually you can actually sell courses now in mastering
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in uh in producing. Yeah. Right. Uh so um tell me tell me a little bit I
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I will go back in history after afterwards but I want to I want to ask you about Always Joey. How did that
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happen? Uh you're you're now like official tribute Bon Joy band right?
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Yeah. Yeah, of course, man. You know, um, Bonjovi has been pro, you know, Kiss
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Van Halen, Bonjovi, De Leopard, the biggest influences in my career. And John Bonjov's been a lifelong almost 40
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years of friendship. He was the first rock star to get behind me and Trickster back in 1986 before Slippery and Wet
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took off. We gave him our demo tape and he called us and got behind us and you
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know he was the one who introduced us to Snake and Rachel and Scotty from Skid Row and they became they became like our
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big brothers and he told them make sure you take care of Stephen the trickster guys but um you know it goes back to the
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you know important moments of my life with BonJovi and they're probably uh the
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concert when they when they were on tour opening up for RAT in 1985. It was one of those life-changing
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moments for me because um you know they were it was on the 7800 tour and it was
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Rat Invasion Your Privacy at the Metal Ends Arena in New Jersey. Still one of the greatest rock shows ever. And I
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remember that was my first time seeing Bon Joy. And I remember just being like, "Oh my god, this is it." It was
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everything. It had elements of Van Halen. It had elements of Journey. It had elements Brian Adams and and Kiss
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even and it was a deaf leopard. It was everything that I loved about what was
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going on in the8s rock. And of course, you know, it was the Jersey guys. So, it
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was like your hometown heroes. And I remember watching them and you know,
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first, you know, I had three big impressions that night that changed my life forever. Seeing John at that point,
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he was the coolest [ __ ] looking rock star in rock and roll, you know? He had the best hair, you know, that he was
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like the first guy who had the frosted tips. And it was like, man, he there was nobody cooler. He was like David Lee
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Roth meets Steve Perry meets Brian Adams all wrapped up in one, you know, the way
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he sang and the way he performed. And then the band was so incredible because
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they were having fun, you know, they were smiling so much. It was kind of like the Van Halen thing. It was like
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they were bringing a party on stage. Yeah. And um and then thirdly, the most important thing that struck me that
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night and has a had had a forever impact on me was seeing Richie Sambbor alive
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for the first time. And that was the moment watching them probably by three songs in I was in awe of him as a
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performer, as a guitar player, but most importantly as a singer. And that was
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the night that I saw him and I went, I have to become just like that, a lead
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singer, guitar player that is going to end put those great harmonies and
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support the lead vocalist like I did with Pete with Trickster. And that was it. And then, you know, here I am, you
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know, 40 years later with my brand new uh Always Joy Bon Joy tribute band that
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um I'm so proud of and I can't wait to get this show out on the road, man. Because we are uh you know, like I said,
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it's a tribute like no other. um you know what we're going for will always Joy what I what I set out to do is of
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course it's a tribute and to be able to do it pitch perfect note perfect make it
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sound like the way they did in the 80s and '9s at their best doing the best
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songs some deep cuts some stuff that I don't even think you know they've played in 40 or 50 you know 40 years so it's
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going to be really cool I have a great band you know Joey Casada's in it in it on drums I have our X factor in the band
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is our female singer Devon Marie who's been with me for a couple years in various things and she's also she was
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Debbie Gibson's back background singer for the last 15 years and so she adds a
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completely different element cuz she were able to do Who Says You Can't Go Home and she's able to put these
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unbelievable harmonies on which in the promo videos you people see and it's a unique thing and and of course it's a
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great visual uh cuz she's He's beautiful. So, it's really, really cool in that respect. And then my guitar
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player, Fred Gorhow, he's with me in the Wizards of Winter, been a dear friend for a long time. He plays the Sam Bora
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stuff to the tea. And um and that's the most important thing, you know, that we're doing the music justice. You know,
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I got Chris McCoy on keyboards who played with me with Tokyo Motorfist Live a couple times. He played with Trickster
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as well. Um, and Kevin Humphris, who has been with me for a long time playing in various different bands. We played in a
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Van Halen tribute band about 10 years ago, 15 years ago together. And, uh, you know, it's just so much fun. And, you
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know, we're different than all the other tribute bands that I've seen because first and foremost, we're not doing the lookike thing. I'm not wearing a blonde
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wig. You know, in the States, tribute bands have become very, very big. And there's there's a couple of them. my
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good buddy Greg Smith, who I was in Tokyo Motifist with, he's in a great journey band called Voyage, and they're
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like the top Journey band in America with Robbie Hoffman, who's Extremes manager. You know, these guys are
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brothers of mine, and they they've been helping me. And um you know, when I the
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goal was to be able to make this band be, you know, where people close their eyes and go, is that is that is that Bon
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Joy from 1989? you know, because that's what I'm going for. You know, lyrically, I've spent and melodically and vocally
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spent so much time to match John's tone in every inflection, you know, to be
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able and that's the beauty of like YouTube, you know, I'm able to take his soloed vocals and and study them and
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really, you know, and and thank God for the fact that my voice naturally I sound
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just like the way he does. And even when I was in De Leopard, you know, I don't know if a lot of people know, but I got
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the De Leopard gig not because of my cool hair or the way I play guitar, but because I can sing, you know, and that
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was the one thing, you know, to be able to pour some sugar on me, you know, be
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have that voice. Or if I'm doing, you know, uh, you were born to be my baby,
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baby, I was made to be your man to get that, you know, that exact thing. So,
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that's really what I'm, you know, really what I'm going for. And of course, to honor those guys are my friends, man.
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And I want to make sure that it's at a top-notch level, and it really is. So, I'm just so proud, and I can't wait for
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uh, you know, the world to see and hear what I'm doing live. You You're right. I I always uh I always
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uh uh uh heard the resemblance in the voice, for example, in Joe Elliot and uh
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and Brian Adams. I I I hear that that thing, you know. So, Bonjoui also has that, you know, and you have that.
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Uh, thank you. Yeah, it's uh so it's Bonjoui guys know
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about this, right? They're they're supporting your your band, right? Yeah. Yeah. I jammed right before I la
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It was funny because right before I launched the band, which I think I made the announcement like the first week of
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December, I was out on tour with my Wizards of Winter band. Um, and we were
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playing in Nashville. And it just so happened that my buddies I I I'm working with this band from Nashville called
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Hippies and Cowboys. This great like Black Crows, Bad Company, Leonard
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Skinner type band. I'm trying to write songs with them and get them a record deal. But long story short, we're mutual
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friends with David Bryan. So Dave was in town. So he came down to their gig and I
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went over afterwards and it just so happened that we got to go jam together. You know, the footage is out there. It's
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on my social media. And we we played we played Wanted Dead or Alive, You Give Love a Bad Name, and Bad Medicine. And
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we were we had a blast. And you know, I sang the stuff and Dave was like, "Wow, man, you sing great or whatever." And
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then afterwards, I I put my arm around. I go, "Dude, I just want you to know like any day now I'm announcing my uh I
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have a new BonJobi tribute." And I told him, I said, "It's all with love." And you know, and I've been reaching out to
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John, you know, I I sent John a couple texts about um helping him, trying to help him if he needs any help with his
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voice, you know, and I think I could really do that. I reached out to people in his camp, but I guess he's doing
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okay, you know. I saw him back in 2022. We um I was at Gwennneth Paltro's 50th
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birthday party and he was there and we got to catch up and spend a lot of time together. And I told the man, it was
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right in 2022. It was right after he had that tour that was really rough and he had vocal surgery. And I because I had
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vocal surgery about 15 years ago as well. And I told him, I said, "Dude, if you need any help, if you need anything,
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I'm always here for you." And he goes, he goes, "Thank you, man." Uh, but you know, that's it. And I'm pulling for
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him, man. I hope that I hope he does I hope he does well over the summer with his shows. I'm I'm really praying for
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him. And again, he's been such a big supporter and um you know, and just so
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such a great inspiration as always for me and uh a lot of other rock and rollers. So, let's go, Johnny. Get it
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together, bro. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Uh you you you're going to you're going to play something
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more than the first five or six records. I mean, the hard rock, the heavier stuff
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you want to play. Are you going to play the '9s and the 2000 stuff or No. Yeah. Yeah. We have we have a mix. I'm
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not giving the set list away, but we have a mix of everything. And I think
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there's going to be something for everybody. You know, look, man. You know, we I have a 23 song set put
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together with it and it covers everything. Um, I mean, I will say I'm
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not doing anything from the latest two or three records. There's, you know, there's no point in that. There's too
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many other great songs. But the stuff we're doing and the deep cuts I think are the ones that are going to uh speak
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volumes and those are the ones that the real BonJovi fans are going to they're going to go nuts over and there are
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songs that have deep meaning to me because I'm connected to some of the co-writers and people who were involved.
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For example, Burning for Love. That's my favorite track, man. Oh man, great song.
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Uh Burning for Love. Yeah. to by the way today today uh is a
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is an anniversary of of that record. It's uh 42 years since the record came out on on this day.
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Yeah. And I've been you know I've been lucky enough one of my dear friends, one of my best friends is Chuck Bergie who
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you know Chuck is from Billy Joel's band and he was in uh you know Rainbow and
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Blue Oyster Cult and all these other things. Meatloaf Chuck lives about 8 miles away from me and you know Chuck
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played on half of the first Bonjovi record. I think that's Chuck on Burning for Love, but he's on She Don't Know Me,
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Shot Through the Heart, a couple other ones. Oh, awesome. Awesome. Awesome, man. I can't wait to
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to to hear that uh that project, that band, and
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look, I got the I got the mic stand. Wow.
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Original. Uh yeah. So, so u tell me a little bit about a little
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bit about the history. You you started uh uh saying some stuff about Death Leopard.
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How did you get that gig? I mean, you're like an emergency call. You still are, right? For for De Leopard.
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Yeah. And and other bands as well, other people as well, other artists. But um I
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met Phil and and the De Leopard guys back on the on the Hysteria tour back in 1987 888. Um and we became great Phil
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and I became great friends. You know, I've always said Phil is like my British older brother. And now all the guys in
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the band, you know, that's what I that's what I call them, you know, my my Brit more British brothers, if you will. And
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um when Vivian got diagnosed with cancer in 2013, it was it was an easy call, you
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know, cuz Phil has been such a supporter. Like John Bonjovia, my music, and he was always pushing, you know, and
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trying to help, you know, that him and Joe were big fans of uh PJ and I, we had a band in the early 2000s called 40foot
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Ringo, which is uh a real power pop thing. It was like, you know, a cheap
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trick on steroids, if you will. Uh uh-huh. And um and we were supposed to go out on tour with De Leopard, but it just never
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worked out financially. We couldn't afford to do it. But um you know, when when Viv got diagnosed, you know, it was
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an easy call because I'd been around them so much. And you know um we were like family, if you will. And Phil was
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the one who basically said, you know, I got the guy Steve and he sings great, he plays great, he looks great. He was so,
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you know, perfect. And and then, you know, a year later, uh, 2014, September
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2014, I'm at Wimbley Stadium in the UK playing my first gig with De Leopard,
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uh, you know, in front of 90,000 people. Amazing. Uh, did did you did you tour
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with them? I mean, how many how many gigs did you play with them? I played over the last 10 years. I
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played like 16 shows, you know, some private stuff and the public stuff. And I, you know, and I filled in for both of
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them, you know. I had done most of my shows were filling in for Viven, but I did three shows in 2018 on the Journey
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De Leper tour filling in for Phil, which was uh you know in 24 hours notice I
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went up and you know saved the day to help my friends out you know and most importantly help Phil and his wife Helen
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in a in a in a in a crisis situation. And uh you know that's I'm always there
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for them you know and and they know that. But, you know, one of the most incredible things and like De Leopard,
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yeah, and like Bonjovi, it's always great when you get to fill in for a band that their music is some of your
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favorite. You know, I've told people all the time, you know, Kiss Van Halen, Bonjovi, De Leopard. I don't even have
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to learn those songs. I know them. It's part of my being. You know what I mean?
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It's part of my It's in my blood. It's in my DNA. So, um, you know, but
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there's, you know, playing with those guys, there was nothing like it, you know. Uh, I remember the first real gig
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that we did, um, with that one that I did with De Leopard. I I remember like
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at the end of the show, Photograph is one of as the last song. And I remember looking over to my left and going, "Holy
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[ __ ] I'm [ __ ] playing Photograph with De Leopard." you know, it wasn't
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like, you know, cuz I played in tribute bands and played in cover bands and played photograph, but this was like
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looking over and seeing, you know, Sav, Joe Elliot, and Phil rocking out and
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then look back and seeing Rick Allen and I was just like, "Holy [ __ ] this is [ __ ] unbelievable."
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It It hit you right there. Right. It did, man. And it never ever ever got
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lost on me. You know, I was never nervous because, you know, those guys I
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I've been friends with them and I know their show so well, but it was still it
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was one of those moments where you just, you know, your blood just goes a your heart rate goes up a little bit more and
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I was like, "Yeah, this is it, man." Wow, man. Uh, what's your favorite
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record of Death Leopard? Um, I mean I mean personally it's um a
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hysteria for a number of reasons just because of the production. I still use
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it in my studio when I'm referencing other songs. Like if I'm mixing a song,
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I'll put on one of the songs of Hysteria and go, "All right, I'm in the ballpark." I know if I get close to
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that, uh, I I'm doing good. Um, but yeah, Hysteria, but uh, you know, High
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and Dry is extra special because there's something about that record that, you know, at the time when that came out, it
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was just I I just wore the hell out of it. I still have the vinyl. Um, but I I love them all, you know? I mean, I
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really do. I mean, Rock Brigade was the first song that I ever heard from De Leopard when that came out, and that is
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still one of my favorite songs. And what's funny about that, every time I played with Leopard, I would always go
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up to Joe and Sab, I'd go up to Joe and say, I go, "Go, Joe, can we just play Rock Brigade tonight, please, just for
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me?" And he go, he'd go, "Sorry, mate. Regretfully, no, we can't do it." And
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I'm like, "Oh, I just want to play Rock Brigade once."
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Yeah, I like I like their I mean, I love everything they did, but uh I love their harder stuff. the the the earlier stuff
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more I mean you know uh like high and dry or like uh pyromania also. Oh yeah. I mean,
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Pyromania, I mean, that's a groundbre, you know, I love it all, but I would say Hysteria, Pyromania, High and Dry, and
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then the first album. And I do love a lot of Adrenalize. Um, you know, uh,
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Mike Shipley, who became their main engineer, producer, was a friend of mine as well. He mixed some of the Trickster
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stuff. And, um, you know, the history is so deep uh, with those guys. And and again, you
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know, the my life has been just sort of a rock and roll fantasy, if
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you will. Uh the experiences I've had, whether it's, you know, my 30 plus year
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friendship with Eddie Van Halen, you know, and I I'm still very good friends with Alex Van Halen and uh my my, you
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know, relationship with the Kiss guys, all of them. And most importantly over the last couple years working and
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becoming, you know, so tight with Ace and and the De Leopard and the Bonjovies, you know, it's like, wow,
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man. This this kid from Pamis, New Jersey, I always go, man, can you would
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what would the 8-year-old Steve Brown say right now? You know, like when I was
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playing photograph with De Leopard, like are you you got to be you got to be [ __ ] kidding me. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I um I'm sorry for the
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loss for Ace Freely, man. Uh God God bless him. God bless him. Rest in peace. He was one of the best. And uh how was uh
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yeah uh how was working with him and how did that whole combination of you of you
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two became uh you know about the about his last uh album?
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Um well I'd known Ace for you know a long long time. Um, you know, I met Ace
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I've co coincidentally I met Ace for the first time backstage at uh Skidro
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Bonjovi on the New Jersey tour um at the Metallands Arena when Ace came out. I
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don't know if you remember Ace came out and they did Cold Jin that night with Skid Row and uh Snake introduced you to
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him in the dressing room and you and it was quintessential Ace, you know. Snake brought me over. Hey Ace, this is my
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friend Steve. He's in the band Trickster. And Ace just goes, "Hey, Steve, how you doing? Great to meet. I'm
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Ace." And it was like I was like, "I know who you are, man. You're one of my heroes." But um you know, uh over um in
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2022, I believe it was when um when Ace started doing his first set of shows
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again after COVID when everybody was starting to get back out there. Um or it might have even been I don't
26:01
know what year it was, but whatever. We had just released Tokyo Motorfist Lions and that was getting a big buzz around
26:07
the industry. And so we got invited, Tokyo Motorfist got invited to open up for Ace um at a couple East Coast shows
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and uh a bunch of the guys in his camp and John Astronomy as manager and Phil Dele um who used to work for Trickster
26:22
back in the day. They were like, "Man, we got to get you hooked up with Ace. You got to work, man." They love that
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Tokyo Motorfist record. They're like, "Ace, you and Ace would be a great combination." So, and then his fiance at
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the time, Lara Cove, who's a dear friend of mine and PJ and I, we grew up with her. She's a Jersey girl. She grew up a
26:41
couple towns away from us. Um, she was the one who said, "Send me the ideas and
26:46
I'll get them to Ace and you know, let's just try keep doing this." So, I just came in my studio and and as the biggest
26:53
Kiss fan and Ace fan, I was like, "What would I want him to do now? like what
26:59
kind of songs would I want him to write and what would I want to hear as a fan
27:04
you know most importantly that's you know that's what we like to do is be able to hear those songs that you know
27:10
make our make our blood boil and so I came down here and the first thing I you
27:16
know worked on was uh the idea what became walking on the moon and I I sent him a couple ideas which were walking on
27:23
the moon fighting for life cherry medicine um I think I had um I think I had some
27:31
constantly cute uh couple other things and I sent him I sent him these rough
27:36
you know finished things you know they were kind of you know walking on the moon had a lot of what's on the record
27:42
and and I sent it to him and about 3 months later I kid you not dude I'm
27:48
getting out of the shower I'm dripping wet and my phone rings and I see it and
27:54
phone it says it says Paul Freely and I'm like holy [ __ ] [ __ ] he's finally
27:59
calling and I pick up the phone. He goes, "Hey, Steve, what's up? It's Ace." He goes, "I listen to these ideas." He
28:06
goes, "This stuff's great." And he goes, and then immediately he starts going
28:11
into and Walking on the Moon wasn't called Walking on the Moon. It was something else. And he was like, "Yeah,
28:16
we're going to change the title. I got the hook. It's called Walking on the Moon. That's going to be the title of the record." Blah blah blah. And he
28:23
talks for like five minutes. And I'm just sitting there going, "This is awesome. And you know, it was really
28:29
cool because we hadn't even gotten together, but already there was a common
28:35
connection. And I could tell he was so excited. And and then he just goes he goes, "When
28:42
can you come over?" Cuz Ace is living in Jersey. I'm in New Jersey. He lives about 45 minutes away from me. So about
28:48
5 days later, I went to his house and we finished writing the lyrics and the melodies for Walking on the Moon. And
28:54
actually that first day we did 90% of the vocals that are on there. And then
29:01
later that night after the first time we worked together, uh later that night he went he went down in the studio. He was
29:08
so excited he couldn't sleep that he went down to the studio and he wrote the bridge and recorded it himself. And then
29:15
what I had to do was cut it up and move it into uh where it is now. And
29:20
basically, you know, that first week we had that song done and then I did a mix of Walking on the Moon. I sent it to the
29:28
record label Monarch Heavy in New York City and they flipped out. Everybody
29:33
flipped out. You know, we were sending it to all of our, you know, all of our confidants and and consulariaries, you
29:39
know, the lawyers, the managers, the agents, and everybody was like, "We want that. That's the new record." And it was
29:46
we were off to the races. And the next song we cut was Fighting for Life, which is Fighting for Life, which has become
29:53
the definitely one of the fan favorites from the 10,000 Bolts record. And you know, it was just incredible. You know,
30:00
it was an incredible time. And we became so close and had so much fun making the record. He would come here and work. We
30:07
would do like one day at his house, one day here. And uh here, man, here, let me show you. Here's a bunch of here's a
30:13
bunch of the hand some of his handwritten lyrics. Oh man,
30:18
he would always he the first day he came here, I didn't have any of these legal pads and uh he goes, "Steve, you got to
30:26
go to Staples, which is the, you know, like stationary store. You got to go to Staples and get some pads." So, I went
30:32
out and got a bunch. So, you know, it was just incredible, man. I mean, I I I
30:37
still I still have a hard time believing that he's gone. Um and uh you know, his
30:43
spirit's here. you know, luckily there's, you know, he he graciously gave me a couple guitars, you know, when we
30:49
finished the record. He gave me his Les Paul that we used that that he would keep here and he he said, "I want you to
30:56
have this because uh you know, uh I know we're going to be making a lot more music and uh I love you." And it was
31:03
just really really incredible. And uh you know, we had a lot more music left to make and you
31:09
I have a bunch of ideas that were going to be on the next record. you know, he was working on Origins 3 with uh his old
31:17
engineer, producer, Alex Saltzman. Um and and then we were going to continue
31:22
working on what was going to be the follow-up for 10,000 Bolts, but sadly that's not to be. So, God bless you,
31:28
Ace. We miss you. God bless. Do you maybe have some uh leftovers of
31:37
of those records that can be re released, you know, as new songs? Maybe
31:42
he he recorded with you something else besides that, you know, like demos or something.
31:47
Yeah, I mean, we have some rough stuff, some, you know, stuff that wasn't finished. Um,
31:52
you know, the right after 10,000 Volts was released, we were going to do a
31:58
deluxe version that was going to have some alternate mixes, you know, like
32:03
um we we have different drummers that played on songs multiple times, you know, so there's different versions of
32:10
songs. So, I have a feeling someday that'll get taken care of. You know, the estate, you know, Mo'Nique and Janette,
32:16
um, Ace's daughter and his his wife, you know, they they have to the estate has to take care of it. It's all in legal
32:23
stuff. It's not up to me and it's not up to the record label. But I I believe, you know, that that at someday in the in
32:29
the next couple years, all the stuff that we have will release. I have a live record that we recorded in 2024, the
32:37
summer of 2024. uh a multi- camera video shoot, you know, from that show that
32:43
hopefully that gets to see the light of day. So, there is there is stuff and um
32:48
you know, I'm hoping that uh all of the uh all the lawyers play nice in the sandbox and we're able to uh get
32:56
everything released properly because Ace deserves it. That would be that would be awesome.
33:01
That would be great for for all the fans like like you know, like myself. Uh
33:06
what's your what's your Kiss connection when we were talking about Ace? What's your what's your like fan of Kiss, but
33:12
you worked with all those guys or just just uh just a friend? Well, yeah, just friends. I mean, we
33:17
Trickster. We toured with Kiss on the Revenge tour, you know, and uh but we'd known, you
33:23
know, I'd met Jean and Paul, you know, many times before that and they knew about the band. Jean in particular, he
33:30
was he was a fan of Trickster. You know, I think there was there was maybe some
33:35
interest from Simmons Records at one point, but I remember when we were out
33:40
at uh making the first Trickster record in 1989, we were out in LA and we were at the MTV Music Awards, the infamous um
33:49
the one when uh Axel Rose and Vince Neil got into a little scuffle backstage and
33:54
uh you know uh what what else happened that night? Um, Andrew Dice Clay came out and said a bunch of things, but we
34:01
were there and Jean came up to us. He was with Chuck Wright. I'll never forget it. And Jean knew more about us than we
34:09
knew about it. He's like, "Oh, Trickster, Mechanic MCA Records. You guys are the hot new band. Everybody's
34:15
talking about you." And he gave us, you know, all advice. Typical Jean Simmons stuff. But, you know, and we would see
34:21
them, you know, we would always go backstage when they were playing, you know, locally. and Eric Carr was always
34:28
so great and Bruce um and then you know and then you know we toured with them and a dream come true is when Trickster
34:35
got the call to open for Kiss on the revenge tour. I mean that was, you know,
34:40
Kiss was the reason that I started playing music and, you know, those guys were huge, huge influences on me. And so
34:49
to finally get that phone call that we're going to go out on tour, it was monumental. And um, you know, and then
34:55
on the on the tour, we had so much fun with them. And uh, you know, Paul would show me his guitars, his new guitars
35:02
that got built. And Jean, I remember Jean would always come in our dressing room cuz we had a lot of junk food, you
35:08
know, like candy and sweets and he loves all that [ __ ] So he would come and he'd bring his son Nick. Nick was probably
35:15
three or four years old at the time. And he'd go, "Nick, come on. We're going to go to Trickster's dressing room. They have candy bars, you know, cuz Paul was
35:22
like a health fanatic, so he wouldn't, you know, he wouldn't have any junk food in the dressing room, but we had it all.
35:29
and uh you know and you know been friends for a long time with Eric Singer and and then what happened was when Kiss
35:36
reunited the original Kiss on the revenge tour uh I mean on the on the reunion tour in 96 a lot of a couple of
35:45
guys who worked for Trickster went on to go work for Kiss you know and uh Brian
35:51
Hartley who is our lighting guy became Kiss's lighting guy on the reunion tour and he's like TSO's guy now and So the
35:59
good news is is that you know we were friends with Doc McGee. So we were you know backstage passes and you know free
36:06
tickets. I mean I probably saw on that reunion tour I probably saw Kiss like 20 times and I don't think I ever bought a
36:12
ticket. Maybe once I bought one ticket. So it was beautiful beautiful times. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I I'm very
36:19
glad that you hit do you hit big uh while you were still young. I mean uh
36:25
you were like teenager when you when you signed the deal, right? Yeah, I was 18.
36:31
And uh uh fascinating is that you are like you're still young now, but you
36:39
live you you lived through the 80s as a young guy, but also played the clubs, right?
36:46
Yeah. Oh, yeah. We started Trickster, you know, I mean, the first Trickster show was in July of 1984.
36:54
And you started like ' 83. Yep. I started the band in ' 83. We were originally called Raid, R A D E, but
37:02
that was only one show that we did. And then the first official Trickster show was July
37:10
I think it was July 8th, 1984. So, if you can believe it, man, we're heading into the 42nd year of Trickster Mania.
37:19
Wow, man. And uh and you you hit it big. You had hits uh uh MTV and stuff. Uh,
37:27
how do you survive the '9s? I got to ask you that. You know, the 90s for the for
37:32
the glam and for the hard rock scene of the of the 80s, the the heavy metal scene, the '90s were like the worst, you
37:39
know. How did you survive that? Well, you know, you you learn that um
37:44
you learn to appreciate your success because as quick as you get it, it can be gone. And that's what happened to us,
37:51
you know. Thank God, you know, and I and I say this, you know, as much uh as much as of a bummer as it was that our career
37:58
got kind of cut short and our success as we were going up because of grunge, you know, still to this day, you know, the
38:05
80s hard rock from 1980 to, let's say, even 1990, which was really 91, but 19
38:13
10 years, I don't think there's been any genre of music that has lasted as long.
38:22
If you go from 1980 to 1989, there are hard rock bands selling millions of
38:28
records year in and year out. I don't know of any other genre that has that.
38:34
So, that just goes to show you how important the 80s were, but most importantly, the 80s hard rock. You
38:41
know, for bands that were there, it was the the greatest time in the world. And
38:47
um you know but for us it was one of those things man we were just so
38:53
grateful to be a part of it had we didn't really know what was happening you know all of a sudden there was this
38:59
band Nirvana and it was like wow they're wearing flannel shirts too and Pearl Jam wow they're trying to look like
39:05
Trickster which was kind of funny and uh and then lo and behold it was kind of like all of a sudden MTV was like we
39:13
don't want anything to do with any band that was, you know, from the '8s hard
39:18
rock, the hair band thing, and they cut our, you know, they cut our heads off, literally. And um, so PJ and I just made
39:27
a decision. We survived the '9s by we looked at each other and said, "Hey, man, we're musicians. We're not getting
39:33
day jobs." So we started a new band. We started this band called Throwing Rocks,
39:38
which was um, you know, kind of a cross between, let's say, Oasis, the Black Crows. I was, you know, Oasis is one of
39:45
my favorite bands of that time. And so I want to I wanted to start a band like
39:50
that. And we did that. And then we also started a cover band, you know, to make money here in the tri-state area in New
39:57
York, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, playing cover tunes, playing bars four, or five nights a week. We had this great band
40:03
called Sugar Belly. And you know, that's always the one thing that people don't understand is, you know, they have a a
40:11
lot of people don't know that, you know, when you're an artist, even when you're successful, you're the last one that
40:17
ever gets paid. You know, it's the record company, the managers, the lawyers, everybody else gets paid and
40:23
then the artist gets paid. You know, people think just cuz you're on MTV and you're out on tour that you're a
40:29
millionaire. That's so not the case. So, you know, you learn that we have to survive. And look, you know, getting
40:36
back to why I play in I still have over the last 15 years played in cover bands,
40:42
played in tribute bands, why I have multiple bands because for me to keep a
40:47
roof over my head as a professional musician and support my family and put food on the table, I have to do multiple
40:54
things. And um and that's what PJ and I learned. the other guys decided to get
40:59
day jobs and careers and they kind of moved moved away and um and that's cool
41:05
too you know whatever you got to do but you know it was very much I learned this from the Van Halen brothers you know Ed
41:12
now taught me you know you're either a musician or you're not and there's a big
41:17
difference because it's easy to be a you know a rock star when you're successful
41:23
and you're on MTV and you're got traveling in tour buses and Lear jets and limmousines. It's really tough when
41:31
you're on your own. You're driving in a van across the country with four guys,
41:38
five guys with your gear and you're looking at each other and you go, you
41:43
know, I don't want to do this anymore. It's easy when you're, you know, again, when there's girls and you're playing
41:49
sold out arenas, but, you know, I was always kind of like, man, I just love music and I love to play and I love to
41:55
make music whether I'm on number one on MTV or I'm on the cover of Circus magazine. That never mattered to me. And
42:03
you know, and Ed Van Halen taught me and they they always said if we weren't
42:08
successful, we'd still probably be playing in a wedding band with our dad or we'd be still be playing cover tunes,
42:15
you know, because they're real musicians, you know, and that's what real musicians do. No matter what, you
42:21
play, you know, you play and you make music. Yes. And I have a sense that because I
42:27
lived through the ' 90s uh I I'm an 80s kid, but uh but uh in the '90s I got to
42:35
listen to to all sorts of music, heavy metal, hard rock, punk and stuff, you know, I got into the underground and I
42:41
remember and I also play since 2000 drums. So uh uh I I I got to see that
42:48
after 2005ish the glam metal hard rock be began to to
42:54
come back you know like reunion stuff reunion tours uh also also people
42:59
started to like that music again you know it was like a like like a reformation or something
43:07
it was yeah I remember that I remember like Poison going back out on tour in the early 2000s and they had the good
43:14
couple good package tours and it took a couple years and you know I got to you got to give credit where credit's due
43:20
you know the De Leopard guys never stopped they kept going all through the '9s all through the 2000s you know even
43:28
Bon Joy but Bon Joy was one of those bands that transcended you know when they had uh that big hit with it's my
43:34
life you know they they went to another level and they crossed you know over and
43:41
they became relevant again but Um yeah, but we got to but we got to say that they def uh De Leopard and Bonjoui
43:49
changed the style a little bit to be more, you know, su successful in those
43:55
in those times, you know. Of course. And they did it like also Metal Metallica changed the style, you know.
44:01
Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And so Yeah. And it's a you know, it's a great thing. And again, now more
44:07
than ever, you know, the 80s hard rock and Trickster, we've been out on tour for the last couple years. We did, you
44:14
know, 55 shows last year. We did 60 the year before. And we're playing as a three-piece now. You know, we don't have
44:21
our old singer and the drummer. They they don't do it anymore. And PJ and I have been out. I'm the new lead singer,
44:27
Trickster, and the lead guitar player. PJ's singing some songs. And we got a great new drummer, Ben Hans, who sings
44:33
great, and he's doing some harmonies. So, you know, it's it is what it is, but you know, we're out there bringing the
44:40
uh the spirit of what we call the spirit of 1989 to everybody. Yeah. I think it's not going uh going
44:47
out uh uh anymore. I mean, everybody loves the 80s now, you know. U wanted to
44:54
ask you about one uh thing about that uh very famous tour you did with uh uh in
45:01
the in the early '90s with Warren. Uh that's like you know that's like a myth now. It was amazing because you all all
45:08
all of you played together also. Uh yeah on on on the show. How how was that tour? How was that tour?
45:15
It was one of the greatest times of our lives. You know it was you know we had
45:20
toured with before that we had toured with Striper, Don Dawan, Poison and the
45:27
Scorpions of course that was our you know at the height of it with us when we were doing we were number one. We did
45:33
that was our first major arena tour around, you know, North America. But the Scorpions were so much older than us.
45:40
You know, those guys were 20 years older than us. So, we hung out with them and they were awesome and we partied with
45:46
them. But when we got on tour with Warren and Firehouse, they were like our brothers. We all became best friends,
45:54
party animals together. And it was just [ __ ] nuts and the best of times. Like
46:01
we had so much fun and literally it was like a traveling um three- ring circus
46:09
party that never ended for 5 months. Yeah. Yeah. Uh I I I I love that you at
46:17
the end you you you played the Beasty Boys song. Uh yes. You know, that's amazing. I mean uh compiling those
46:23
styles together it sounds great. Yep. It was, you know, and that was that
46:29
was uh I think that was like Janie's idea, you know, cuz the first couple shows we were doing Tush by Zezy Top and
46:36
then somebody said, "Yeah, why don't we do uh Fight for Your Right to Party?" And that became that was the anthem of
46:42
the tour because it was so much. And you never saw that, you know? I mean, very rarely would you see three whole bands
46:49
jamming together, you know, and and it was and again, it was soon as we got off
46:54
stage, it was party time, you know, those the Warrant guys, man, they they
47:01
taught us how to really drink and indulge, if you will.
47:06
Man, thank you. Thank you for this uh amazing uh amazing podcast interview. Uh
47:13
just just one more thing uh before before we end it. Uh what what are you working on next uh besides always Joey
47:20
some new record or producing some stuff? Yeah, well right now like I told you before I'm finishing up the Lorraine
47:26
Lewis Fen Patal album that uh is coming out on Cleopatra Records. We're uh we're
47:32
a little more than halfway done and it's been so great working with Lorraine.
47:37
She's she's got her and I have the same energy, you know. We just love
47:42
everything that we're doing musically and you know and and and so and also we're going over to Australia together.
47:49
Um Trickster Stevie Relle from Tough and Lorraine Lewis and we're going to be
47:55
doing our first Australia shows together at the third week of March and that's a
48:00
first. I've never been to Australia. PJ's been there a couple times but we're so looking forward to that. And um you
48:08
know still finishing. We have a trickster a Stephen PJ, not a Trickster
48:13
documentary, but a documentary that we're working on. And um and you know, the new Trickster album is about 75%
48:21
done. It's probably not going to come out till next year because I want the documentary and the record to come out
48:26
at the same time to be like a companion thing. But I'm telling you, man, people are going to be blown away when they
48:31
hear the music. I might release one of the new songs this year just because I'm
48:36
so excited. I want people to hear what we're doing, but uh we'll see.
48:41
Thank you. You're very busy and thank you for this interview. I we've been talking about it for a long time. Thank
48:48
you, man. You bet, man. All the best. See you soon. See you, man. Bye-bye. Thank you.

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