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Breaking Free: Tamara Mathieu’s Memoir of Life in the Twelve Tribes Community
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Dec 18, 2024
In this episode, Adam and Lisa discuss *All Who Believed: A Memoir of Life in the Twelve Tribes*, Tamara Mathieu’s gripping memoir about her life in and escape from the Twelve Tribes Community. They dive into the group’s history, allegations of abuse, and Tamara’s journey of healing and reintegration. 📚 Get the books discussed: 👉 *All Who Believe: A Memoir of Life in the Twelve Tribes* - Paperback: https://amzn.to/4fmgsEz | Kindle: https://amzn.to/4fjw7o5 Another Book about the Twelve Tribes from another former member: 👉 *Better than a Turkish Prison: What I Learned From Life in a Religious Cult* - Paperback: https://amzn.to/4gc3CtR | Kindle: https://amzn.to/4gdkTTb #TwelveTribes #CultSurvivor #Memoir #SurvivalStory #CultRecovery #AuthorDiscussion
View Video Transcript
0:00
okay ready to dive in I find this one
0:02
fascinating I know right you know
0:05
imagine dedicating 14 years wow 14 years
0:09
that's a group to a group believing it's
0:12
the only way to like earn God's favor
0:15
yeah only to find out it's well not what
0:17
you thought that's what happened to
0:20
Tamara Matthew yeah she lived in the 12
0:22
tribes Community for you know over a
0:24
decade before she left tough decision
0:27
yeah tough decision but uh her story is
0:30
really captivating it is and today we're
0:32
going to use an interview she did oh
0:33
cool to kind of guide us through like
0:36
what life was actually like inside this
0:38
group I think a lot of people are really
0:40
curious about that yeah like like one of
0:42
those groups you hear about but don't
0:43
really like na right you know yeah
0:47
totally but before we get into Tamara's
0:48
like personal story okay let's take a
0:51
step back and make sure we all
0:53
understand who the 12 tribes actually
0:54
are good idea cuz they're often
0:57
misunderstood or even like mislabeled so
1:00
help us out here clear up some of that
1:02
confusion well for starters despite you
1:05
know them using a lot of Christian
1:08
wording and imagery you know they
1:10
actually really reject that Christian
1:13
label huh interesting vehemently they
1:16
don't even consider themselves Jewish
1:18
wow they believe they are the only true
1:21
followers the only ones of God's way uh
1:24
the only ones who will receive God's
1:26
favor actually that's a pretty uh bold
1:30
claim it is it is a bold claim so if
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they're not Christian they're not Jewish
1:35
what like what are they how do they even
1:37
Define themselves well they see
1:38
themselves as like a restoration of the
1:41
original community of um Believers
1:44
described in the New Testament right and
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um they think that like mainstream
1:49
Christianity and Judaism have just
1:51
strayed from the um true path right and
1:55
that they alone are the ones um
1:58
following the blueprint following the
1:59
original blueprint they basically think
2:01
everyone else is wrong essentially yeah
2:03
that's a core part of their identity you
2:05
know it informs everything wow from
2:07
their daily life to how they interact
2:10
with um everyone outside the
2:13
group that's got to create some tension
2:15
that uh US versus them mentality huge
2:18
tension yeah very common in these groups
2:19
though yeah yeah makes sense uhhuh I'm
2:22
starting to see how that could lead to
2:24
you know some controversy right right
2:26
but before we get into that can you give
2:27
us some like historical context
2:32
okay so um the group started as the
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Christian Community back in the 1970s
2:39
yeah founded by Eugene and Marsha sprigs
2:43
I've heard those names before okay they
2:45
started out as the small community in
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Chattanooga Tennessee interes attracting
2:50
um a lot of young people who were um
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disillusioned with mainstream Society
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looking for something uh more spiritual
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makesense was this like during that
3:01
whole countercultural movement yeah
3:03
exactly it feels like they tapped into
3:05
like a yearning for something different
3:07
right that search for community and um
3:11
shared values and a simpler way of life
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I get it it was and still is a really
3:17
powerful draw yeah you totally yeah so
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how did they grow from this like small
3:24
community to This Global organization
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well they really focused on Outreach
3:30
they had a strong sense of mission got
3:32
it you know sending groups out to
3:34
different parts of the US and eventually
3:36
even um overseas spreading their message
3:40
establishing new communities it's pretty
3:42
incredible that they were able to like
3:44
replicate their model so many different
3:46
places well their structure and their
3:48
communal Living Model while it's
3:50
controversial of course it helps them
3:52
maintain that um distinct identity and
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cohesiveness okay okay so that's the 12
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tribes in a
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right but let's Circle back to Tamara
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okay she joined in 2000 and stayed for
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14 years right a long time what Drew her
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to them in the first place well like
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many who joined Tamara was seeking um
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meaning and purpose you know and um the
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12 tribes offered that strong sense of
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belonging and a clear set of values and
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that structured environment which can be
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really appealing I see that especially
4:27
to someone who's maybe feeling lost
4:29
exactly searching for direction it's
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like that uh promise of a tight-knit
4:34
community right and a very very like
4:36
defined path you know especially in a
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world that feels so chaotic and uh
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uncertain absolutely it's so important
4:44
to understand that context to you know
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try to make sense of why someone would
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join exactly exactly like this so you're
4:51
in you join up what's daily life like
4:54
well life is very structured and
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communal okay in the 12 tribes uhhuh
5:00
they believe in shared ownership
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responsibilities right everyone
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contributes to um you know the
5:07
community's needs from like farming from
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farming and crafting to uh cooking to
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child care and cooking exactly got it
5:14
yeah what was Tamar's specific role
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though she had to plan and prepare meals
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wow that's a for a ton of people that's
5:22
a huge job yeah they call it kitchen
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covering oh interesting demand it
5:27
requires um organization and management
5:30
skills wow big time I can't imagine the
5:33
pressure of feeding oh yeah that many
5:35
people every single day no kidding it
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doesn't sound like there was much uh
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room for like personal preference or uh
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you know individual Choice n in that
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kind of role right individual decision-
5:46
making is really discouraged in the 12
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tribes interesting they believe in
5:50
obedience and submission to the um
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leaders who interpret you know God's
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will for everyone so that whole only
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ones thing yeah really translates to
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like a very controlled environment you
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know a lot of control over people's
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lives even down to you know what they
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eat it's uh it's a lot you know I mean
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that level of control is just wow
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uhhuh so we know Tamara raised her kids
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within the group right what was that
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like did they have like a typical
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childhood uh not really they were
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homeschooled so limited exposure s to
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the outside world and any other uh you
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know viewpoints right and the 12 tribes
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believe in strict discipline very black
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and white and corporal punishment yeah
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they use corporal punishment I know
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that's something that's like drawn a lot
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of criticism towards the group can you
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talk about that a bit more sure so they
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believe in spanking with a rod sometimes
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pretty severely oh wow to correct
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Disobedience okay and um instill
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submission to Authority while they see
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it as loving discipline
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a lot of Child Development experts would
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argue that it's really harmful you know
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very harmful did Tamar ever like express
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any doubt about this practice well for a
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long time she didn't okay she just
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accepted it yeah but as she started
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questioning other parts of the 12 tribes
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teachings makes sense her views on
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discipline also began to you know to
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shift yeah to shift it's like
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questioning one part right makes you
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question everything yeah for sure and it
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sounds like this shift in her thinking
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played a big role in her decision to
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leave it did but before we get to that
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okay let's dig into some of those other
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controversies around the group all right
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and like how they affected Tamar's
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Journey sure I'm especially interested
7:41
in that raid that happened back in
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1984 oh yeah at one of their communities
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the Island Pond raid yeah seems like a
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pretty big moment for them it was it
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brought to light right allegations of
7:52
child abuse which they of course Deni
7:54
which they denied yeah how did the 12
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tribes like EXP explain this to their
8:00
members they saw it as a Divine test a
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sign of uh persecution from the outside
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world that US versus them mentality
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again exactly just reinforced it they
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urged their members to like stay strong
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in their faith and reject any uh
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criticism criticism as like an attack
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right attack from a world that doesn't
8:23
get them it's classic like doubling down
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when face was pressure it is did this
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affect perspective at all it reinforced
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that Narrative of persecution that was
8:33
already there you know but a similar
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raid in Germany in 2013 oh wow had a
8:39
much bigger impact on her 2013 that's
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like right before she left the year
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before she left wow what was different
8:46
about the German ring well let's pause
8:47
for a second and think about that good
8:49
idea imagine living in a community where
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like any scrutiny from outside is seen
8:55
as like a spiritual attack and then you
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see this raid in another where children
9:00
are being taken away yeah it makes you
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question things you know it really does
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it highlights how they use these
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narratives to protect themselves and
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maintain control for sure and I'm really
9:11
interested to hear how this event led to
9:14
Tamara's decision to leave okay we'll
9:16
get to that next time yeah I'm on the
9:18
edge of my seat don't go anywhere
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definitely not yeah that raid in Germany
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was uh really a turning point for Tamara
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I bet seeing those kids taken from their
9:28
families it shook her yeah must been so
9:30
jarring especially with the group always
9:33
saying they were the victims you know
9:35
right always persecuted and then their
9:37
actions are being scrutinized exactly
9:39
like what if that happened to her kids
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whoa yeah that fear on top of years of
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being told how dangerous the outside
9:47
world is man that's got to mess with
9:49
your head it did it really made her
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rethink everything so the fear they used
9:53
to keep her in right actually pushed her
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out it's crazy how that happens it's
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like their own weapon turn against them
10:00
happens all the time with these groups
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the tighter they grip the more Things
10:03
Fall Apart exactly it seems like for
10:07
Tamara it was that Mom Instinct powerful
10:10
right that love for her kids just
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overrode everything it was the driving
10:14
force wow but leaving like that's not
10:17
easy oh no it's huge walking away from
10:19
everything you know everything your
10:21
whole Community it was a huge
10:23
undertaking for her what were some of
10:24
the challenges she faced well just like
10:27
starting over in a world they were
10:29
sheltered from right finding jobs
10:31
housing like everyday stuff it's like
10:34
learning to live all over again it was a
10:36
lot for them I bet and then the
10:38
emotional part oh right reintegrating
10:40
into society a society they were told
10:43
was evil that's got to be tough it's
10:45
like rebuilding your whole worldview wow
10:48
what about the kids how did they handle
10:49
it they have their own struggles yeah
10:52
especially with school oh right going
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from homeschooling to public school can
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you imagine that's a huge leap the
10:58
social part alone I bet that was hard
11:00
tamber said they had a tough time making
11:02
friends makes sense they were taught to
11:04
be suspicious of everyone outside right
11:06
US versus them exactly man that's
11:09
heartbreaking but also shows how
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resilient they are they had to
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resocialize themselves learn a whole new
11:14
way of interacting it shows how deep
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that indoctrination goes even after you
11:19
leave it sticks with you for sure makes
11:21
you wonder about the bigger picture you
11:23
know like what it means for society yeah
11:26
do groups like this pose a risk beyond
11:29
their
11:30
members it's a good question maybe not a
11:33
widespread threat right but they
11:35
represent a mindset that's you know okay
11:39
problematic yeah like isolation
11:41
isolation distrust of Outsiders that can
11:44
turn into something worse it can and
11:46
they're not the only group like this out
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there that's true some with even more
11:49
influence we got to be aware of that
11:51
absolutely not just with groups but in
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our own lives yes those same patterns
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can pop up anywhere who you're right
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could be a relationship a job job a
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friend group anything it's about
12:02
recognizing the signs those red flags
12:04
trusting your gut questioning Authority
12:07
so it's bigger than just one group it's
12:09
about thinking critically in all parts
12:11
of life I like that be your own Advocate
12:14
exactly okay back to Tamara yeah what
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happened to her faith after she left
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interesting right she didn't just
12:20
abandon it all wow that's surprising she
12:22
redefined it for herself outside of the
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12 tribes exactly her own personal
12:26
Journey that's inspiring it is after
12:29
everything she still wanted that
12:31
connection we all need something to
12:32
believe in right okay but why share her
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story well she needed to process what
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happened 14 years is a long time to make
12:40
sense of it all writing can be so
12:42
powerful for that it's like taking back
12:44
control I get it but there's got to be
12:47
more oh there is right she wanted to
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warn people about the 12 tribes in
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groups like them that's Brave especially
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since they could come after her she put
12:57
herself out there to help others avoid
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what she went through it's like her
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leaving it's all about protecting people
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protecting kids especially she's a
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strong woman she is her story reminds us
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to be aware to speak up absolutely
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what's the biggest takeaway you want
13:13
listeners to have it's about recognizing
13:15
those patterns you know even outside of
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specific groups right like it's not just
13:20
about avoiding Cults exactly it's about
13:23
like being aware of those Dynamics yes
13:27
in all parts of your life so relation
13:29
Rel ships workplaces jobs friend groups
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yeah it could be anywhere it really
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could that's kind of scary but also like
13:36
empowering to know right knowledge is
13:39
power exactly so you can protect
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yourself you got it Tamara talked about
13:43
forgiveness you know towards the end of
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the interview like forgiving herself and
13:47
the people who hurt her yeah it's such a
13:49
vital part of healing but how do you
13:51
even start to forgive like after
13:53
something like that it's tough right but
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holding on to anger it just keeps you
13:58
stuck yeah I get that forgiveness
14:00
doesn't mean saying what happened was
14:02
okay right it's not about forgetting
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exactly it's about letting go of the
14:06
negative stuff so you can move on
14:08
exactly focus on healing and growing
14:12
it's different for everyone though right
14:13
of course it's a personal journey and
14:15
for Tamara it seems like sharing her
14:17
story was a big part of that it was she
14:19
took back her narrative and connected
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with others who'd been through similar
14:23
things it's amazing how she turned pain
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into something positive her story can
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help so many people it really can't
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shows that healing is possible even
14:33
after something so awful it's a message
14:35
of hope it is resilience powerful stuff
14:38
so as we wrap up this deep dive into the
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12 tribes through Tamar's eyes what's
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the one thing you want listeners to
14:45
remember Tamara's Story shows us The
14:47
Power of Choice yeah even when you feel
14:50
trapped you always have a choice even if
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it's hard it might be the hardest thing
14:53
you ever do but you can break free
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reclaim your life live by your values
14:59
her story reminds us to be aware to
15:01
question to think for ourselves never
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underestimate individual freedom and the
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courage it takes to fight for it wow
15:09
well said if you want to learn more
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about tamber's experience definitely
15:13
check out her book and listen to the
15:15
full interview lots more to discover
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there and if you have any thoughts any
15:19
Reflections share with us on social
15:21
media we'd love to hear from you until
15:23
next time keep diving deep
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