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Flip the Script - Part 2
Sep 25, 2025
Welcome to Adaptable | Behavior Explained! This episode goes over Flip the Script | Part 2 as Julie Russomanno once again interviews Kelly O’Horo. In this continuation, Kelly opens up even more sharing lessons on burnout, balance, and the deeper purpose behind her work. I'm Kelly O'Horo, Attachment based EMDR Therapist, EMDRIA Consultant, and Advanced Trainer. I'm a mom of 5, Nonna of 5, wife, and a healer. I have the honor of spending my workdays walking along side people while they brave their healing journeys. I try to live with the generous assumption that we're all doing the best we can with what we know. Therapists are teachers for the "life stuff" and "emotional vocabulary" that may not have been learned due to gaps in our care givers capabilities. In the last 15 years I've learned that people are freaking amazing, resilient, and inspiring. Most importantly, we are hardwired for connection and for healing! I hope to bring an authentic, compassionate, and unpolished approach while we explore a variety of topics such as parenting, marriage, relationships, dating, trauma, attachment, adoption, depression, addiction, anxiety, and love! There's a why for all behaviors and an explanation that makes perfect sense as emotion is at the root of it all. -- Links -- https://linktr.ee/kellyohorolpc https://youtu.be/rLnARKekvgo https://www.emdria.org/find-an-emdr-therapist/
View Video Transcript
0:06
Hi everyone, I'm Kelly O'Horo and this
0:09
is Adaptable Behavior Explained. Hi
0:12
everybody, I'm Kelly O'Horo, uh, host of
0:14
Adaptable Behavior Explained and today
0:17
we're going to do something different.
0:19
We are part two of the episode Flip the
0:22
Script. My friend and colleague Julie
0:24
Rousomano asked if she could interview
0:26
me being that we've done gosh I think at
0:30
least 90 episodes at this point of the
0:33
show and she said I want to ask
0:35
questions about you so that the viewers
0:36
can learn a little bit more about you
0:38
and what you've learned. So uh without
0:40
further ado, you're going to take over
0:42
from here.
0:43
Yes, I am. And thank you all for coming
0:45
back. So Kelly, I thought I thought we'd
0:48
start off talking a little bit about
0:49
work and mental health counseling and
0:51
how you got into that. So, the first
0:54
thing that I think people might be
0:56
interested in is learning about how you
0:58
build trust with your clients. How do
1:00
you how do you develop that therapeutic
1:04
relationship, which is so so important?
1:06
My answer is going to sound like a
1:08
copout, and I don't like that, but it is
1:10
my truth. I believe in authenticity.
1:15
It's like my number one value, and
1:18
compassion. They're they're my values
1:19
that that try to guide everything that I
1:21
do. And I've always believed that if you
1:24
show up with authenticity, meaning
1:26
you're just being your most real true
1:29
self and compassion, the rest will take
1:31
care of itself. And for me, I genuinely
1:34
care about my clients. I care about
1:36
their stories. I care about their
1:37
histories. And so, I'm interested. I'm
1:40
actually interested. I want to show up
1:42
for them. I want them to grow into their
1:43
strongest version of themselves. And so
1:47
for that, I think that how I build trust
1:50
and confidence and rapport is by being
1:52
that person who cares genuinely about
1:54
someone else. And because I care, I
1:56
think that that that there's a felt
1:58
sense of that. Clients will feel that
2:00
and that builds trust more quickly. I
2:01
don't think there's something that you
2:02
can do. It's about being something. And
2:05
for me, it's just being real.
2:07
Yeah. Being real, being authentic.
2:09
Yeah.
2:10
Yeah. I mean, they I I think that
2:11
clients can smell it when we're fake.
2:13
And you know, they can smell it when we
2:16
have something going on in our personal
2:17
lives and we don't just say, "Hey, you
2:20
know, I've got something going on. It's
2:22
not about you. I just wanted you to know
2:23
that so that you weren't picking up
2:25
anything and and feeling like that was
2:27
about you." You know, we do our best to
2:29
compartmentalize. We do our best to be
2:31
really present, but we're just human.
2:32
And so, um, so for me, I think that that
2:34
authentic just real self and just saying
2:37
you're not oversharing and not
2:39
overindulging in that side. We don't
2:40
want them to to overfunction and care
2:42
more about us that they're distracted by
2:44
why they came to see us. But I think
2:46
that if you don't bring something up and
2:48
it's in the room, they know that anyway
2:50
and it's disingenuine. We're saying,
2:52
"Hey, go out there, be yourself, be
2:54
honest, but then we don't model that." I
2:55
think it's there's hypocrisy involved
2:57
there. So,
2:58
yeah. So, being honest, being
3:00
just being just being real and caring. I
3:03
mean, I tell clients, if you stop or and
3:05
my other therapists that work for me, if
3:07
you stop caring about your clients or
3:09
you're not interested or you find
3:10
yourself bored or you find yourself, you
3:13
know, wishing you didn't have to go to
3:14
work tomorrow, you need to recareer or
3:16
switch or get a lot more therapy because
3:18
that that has no place in the
3:20
therapeutic relationship.
3:21
Right. Right.
3:22
Yeah.
3:23
So
3:25
when we think about the field of mental
3:27
health and and counseling, what's
3:30
happening right now in the field that
3:33
excites you or kind of scares you?
3:37
I mean, I think my answer is going to be
3:39
the same for both and that's AI. You
3:42
know, AI is so exciting because,
3:47
you know, give me five things I can do
3:49
to help me deal with depressive
3:52
symptoms. If I ask chat GPT, your
3:54
co-pilot, it's going to give me some
3:56
things that are likely going to be
3:57
beneficial. And and that's great. And
4:01
it's not going to replace a counselor
4:02
because you know what? Anybody always
4:04
have been we've always been able to
4:06
Google tell me five things I can do to
4:08
help me with my depression. Like that's
4:09
not an issue. It's definitely cleaner
4:11
now. and it's definitely faster. Um, so
4:14
I think that that that can be exciting
4:17
in that we have just so much more data
4:20
at the ready. I still think discernment
4:22
is important. I think the human
4:23
relationship is the greatest predictor
4:25
of healing. And you don't have a human
4:27
relationship with a with a computer. You
4:30
just don't. And they can't be safe and
4:32
loving and trusting for you to rebuild
4:34
pathways in your own nervous system so
4:36
that you can heal, you know, unresolved
4:38
things in your past. And so although I'm
4:41
um I'm excited for that side of things
4:43
where you can you can look things up. I
4:45
mean even as a therapist I I can go give
4:48
me five DBT skills that would help with
4:50
someone who's really struggling with
4:51
mindfulness and I can come up with like
4:53
right now I can find them and I can then
4:55
be a better conduit of delivering the
4:57
information for my client. So all of
4:59
that related to AI is really really
5:01
exciting. The side that I'm nervous
5:04
about with AI is people not then
5:07
reaching out for human help, which is
5:09
really what we need when we have been
5:12
through things. We need relationships
5:15
and we can't get that through a machine.
5:17
And so the concern I have is, you know,
5:20
we we are kind of hardwired to do what's
5:22
easy, fast, quick. And I think people
5:25
will lean towards that more than they
5:28
can. It's and it's, you know, the quick
5:30
fix concept is not it's not how anything
5:32
good sticks. And so I think there's a
5:35
little bit there that I don't want
5:37
people to become over reliant with AI
5:39
and and forget that the human
5:41
relationship is necessary for our
5:45
growth.
5:46
Yeah. Yeah.
5:47
So I would say that's both
5:50
Yeah.
5:50
I'm excited and also it's a little
5:52
scary.
5:53
Yeah, it is scary.
5:54
And there's still a lot of bad
5:55
information. You still have to, you
5:57
know, I mean, I love that Microsoft has
5:59
named their AI agent co-pilot. It's not
6:01
the pilot. You can't trust it. You need
6:03
to like have discernment and and figure
6:05
out what's the right data and maybe even
6:08
cross reference things and look at the
6:09
research that it comes up with to make
6:11
sure it's it's uh, you know, accurate
6:13
information because just like anything
6:15
on the internet, there's lots of
6:17
inaccurate information and people just
6:19
believe what they read and they don't
6:20
know how to discern accuracy and that's
6:22
terrifying. But that's terrifying in
6:24
every genre, not just in the mental
6:26
health profession.
6:27
Yeah. So, could could you share with us
6:30
a little bit about what led you to start
6:33
your business, right? What led you
6:35
to which business?
6:37
You were the the counseling business,
6:39
right? Which led to this, which led to
6:41
that, which
6:41
gosh, you and I were together back then.
6:43
And for those of you who don't know,
6:45
Julie was my supervisor when I first
6:47
became a therapist. And I can remember
6:50
when we, you know, uh, the culmination
6:53
of the of the therapeutic supervisor
6:56
supervise relationship. I said, you
6:58
know, I have this idea. Have you signed
7:00
all my paperwork because we don't want
7:01
to have like any dual relationship
7:03
issues here. And um, once you're done
7:05
with that, I want to talk to you about
7:06
something. And that's where I was like,
7:08
I really want to create a place where
7:11
therapists can go and they can feel
7:13
loved and supported and seen and they
7:17
can have a beautiful space to help their
7:18
clients. They don't have to worry about
7:20
being business people because that's too
7:22
much when you're a therapist. And a lot
7:24
of times people don't want anything to
7:25
do with that side of things and they
7:27
can, you know, be in connection with
7:29
other therapists so that we aren't doing
7:31
this work alone. And I think I've always
7:33
wanted I mean honestly since I was in
7:35
graduate school I always wanted to
7:37
eventually create a space where that was
7:38
the outcome and I think we've done a
7:41
good job with creating space where
7:43
people can learn and grow together as
7:45
therapists and that's that was always
7:46
the reason I also wanted to be in
7:48
control of the space and have it be
7:50
beautiful and like have soundproofing
7:52
and have you know proper air
7:54
conditioning and those kinds of things
7:55
that you can't always control when you
7:57
rent from somewhere. So
7:58
yeah. Yeah. So I love that. So you wear
8:02
the hat of a counselor and you also wear
8:04
the hat as a business owner, right? So
8:07
how when you're a business owner, how do
8:09
you keep your values clear, right? Your
8:12
values for counseling, your values for
8:15
for people and growing people into the
8:18
best counselors they can be.
8:20
I think that I still fall back and rely
8:22
on my main value words, which were, like
8:24
I said, were authenticity and
8:25
compassion. And I think that if I'm
8:27
operating in a way that doesn't emulate
8:29
those values, then I'm not in line with
8:31
who I want to be. And you know, as a
8:34
business person, obviously, you have to
8:37
make money otherwise it's not a
8:38
business. And I think that because my
8:40
values have always been about like
8:42
service. I mean, I was a teacher for 15
8:44
years. Like these are not professions
8:45
where you think you're going to make a
8:46
lot of money. And so it's never really
8:49
been my primary driver. I mean,
8:50
obviously, I would like to be paid, you
8:52
know, for my time and I would like to
8:54
benefit from all the work that I do to
8:56
be the business owner, but it's not been
8:58
my primary driving force. And I think
9:00
that in order to be a business owner,
9:02
you have to understand where your gaps
9:03
are. And so, I've I've hired
9:05
consultants. I've hired business coaches
9:07
to help me with the blind spots and the
9:09
areas that I'm not naturally skilled
9:11
with because I think that, you know,
9:12
one, I owe it to the people that work
9:14
for me to have somebody who helps me be
9:16
better at it so that it can then be
9:18
better for them. And you know, obviously
9:20
just bouncing things off of off of our
9:23
team. We have a leadership team now that
9:25
is really helpful because I'm not just
9:26
trying to figure everything out by
9:28
myself or just with you, but we have,
9:30
you know, a lot of brilliant minds that
9:32
are that are plugged into, you know, all
9:34
aspects of the business and they can
9:36
tell us things that we need to improve
9:38
on or change or or things that are going
9:40
well. And I think that again back to the
9:43
last episode where, you know, learning
9:45
to ask for help has been an area of
9:46
growth for me. That's the other that's
9:49
what I have to do as a business owner as
9:50
well is recognize I I can't do it by
9:52
myself and I don't want to. I really
9:54
don't want to.
9:55
So, one of the things that that we often
9:58
support our clients with is walking
10:00
through, right? Is is seeing where a
10:03
change needs to be made and making that
10:05
change and it's scary, right?
10:07
Totally.
10:08
And and you had a bunch of different
10:11
careers in your life. You've recarered a
10:14
couple of times. you've started a
10:17
business, a podcast, you're starting,
10:19
you know, a an app for therapists and
10:22
stuff. So, so how have you walked
10:26
through the fears, right? And how how
10:29
has walking through the fears changed as
10:33
you've gotten older,
10:35
wiser?
10:37
I'm assuming you're old you're older and
10:38
wiser.
10:39
I mean, I don't get older. I just pretty
10:40
much stay the exact same age. But um no,
10:43
I I think that I used to be a little bit
10:46
more leap and then look where I leaped
10:48
and hope for the best and maybe trust in
10:51
my capabilities to figure things out as
10:53
I go along. And um I did more of that at
10:57
the beginning. I mean, we took out a
10:58
huge loan to to start the business and
11:01
we like it's it was crazy just thinking
11:04
about the risk that we took to to start
11:06
Infinite. And then when I think about
11:08
what I didn't know, I mean, it was a lot
11:11
of risk, you know, like I really didn't
11:13
know what I was doing. I hadn't ever
11:14
been a business person and I'd been a
11:16
counselor for five seconds. Like I
11:18
really didn't know. I just knew that I'm
11:20
a strong leader and that I look out for
11:23
people and those two things could be
11:25
beneficial as a business owner and
11:26
leader. Um, but I really didn't know
11:28
much else. So when I think about fear, I
11:31
mean, gosh, I'm I'm always afraid. I'm
11:35
always afraid every every time I run a
11:37
basic training course, I'm afraid like
11:39
are we going to have enough people? Are
11:42
is it going to be a strong enough uh you
11:44
know delivery of the content that
11:45
they're going to employ what they learn?
11:47
Uh or is it going to be a waste of their
11:48
time? I mean I'm always walking through
11:50
fear you know thinking about the
11:52
software company. Will it benefit us at
11:55
Infinite 100%. I'm positive about that.
11:57
But will I know how to get it out so
11:59
that other people can benefit and it
12:01
will be awesome. you know, therapist
12:03
Genie is going to launch in, you know,
12:04
probably a year. And I don't know really
12:07
what steps to take between now and then
12:09
to make that happen, but I know that
12:11
we're going to do it. And yeah, I'm
12:12
scared shitless. I mean, it's
12:13
terrifying. We've got a lot of money
12:15
dumped into that that I'll be paying off
12:16
forever if I don't figure out a way to
12:18
get people to also want to buy it. But
12:20
that said, I mean, nothing good comes
12:22
without risk. And um I don't know. I
12:25
just I feel like when there's a way to
12:27
try to make something better, I want to
12:29
I want to try to do that. And generally
12:32
speaking, that's really how I've done
12:34
everything.
12:35
Okay.
12:35
Yeah.
12:36
So, what does success
12:39
mean to you professionally and
12:42
personally? How do you define success?
12:47
You know, when I like when we were at
12:50
retreat last weekend and I see all these
12:54
beautiful healers together connecting
12:57
with one another and in gratitude for
12:59
the time we got to spend together and
13:01
getting to know each other on a more
13:03
deep personal level. Um and and that
13:06
there's, you know, that that we don't
13:08
have high turnover and that we get to
13:12
have people remain in our company
13:14
working to help heal others for for some
13:17
time. To me, that's what success looks
13:18
like. It would probably look more
13:20
successful if I could figure out how to
13:22
achieve a little bit more balance. I'm
13:24
getting better, but it definitely I'm
13:26
still not great at balance. I still work
13:29
I still work too much. Um, but that
13:31
said, I don't know many business owners
13:34
that don't. And I don't know if part of
13:36
like the the attribute that makes you
13:39
want to get in the arena and take charge
13:41
of all these things is also part of what
13:43
you don't know how to relinquish when
13:44
it's time. And so I think that's an
13:46
interesting balance that I'm discovering
13:49
now. You know, we've um we've set things
13:52
up at the business now so that there's
13:54
more people to be relied upon and that
13:56
feels really good. I don't feel I don't
13:58
feel fear about that. I feel excited
14:00
about that.
14:01
But I think success would mean
14:04
everything would run smoothly
14:05
operationally even if I wasn't there.
14:08
And that scares me. That scares me
14:10
because it's my baby. You know, I
14:12
wouldn't want anything to happen to it
14:13
because not just because I would s
14:15
experience a sense of failure, but
14:17
because I feel like a lot of people rely
14:19
on that and I don't want to let people
14:21
down. And so it's finding that balance
14:23
and knowing that there's such great
14:25
people that that are that work for us
14:27
that I I know that that's all there, but
14:30
I haven't always been so awesome at
14:32
sharing with everybody how to do this,
14:34
this, or this, you know, and so if they
14:36
don't know, they can't do it. It's not
14:38
that they're not capable, it's that
14:39
maybe I haven't been a good enough
14:41
leader to pass along the torch at at
14:42
certain things. So I'm working on that.
14:44
It's it's we're always learning. Yeah.
14:46
Right.
14:47
Right. So, what do you want people to
14:50
take away from knowing you? Whether they
14:52
know you as their therapist, whether
14:55
they know you as as the the head of
14:59
Infinite, whether they know you as
15:02
someone that they spend time listening
15:04
to a podcast with. I mean, I would hope
15:06
that people could learn that I I care
15:09
about people and that I want people to
15:12
be whole and to heal and
15:16
um that I mean it when I say we we are
15:19
limitless. We can always grow and change
15:21
and heal. And I believe that about every
15:23
single one of us and that we can't do it
15:25
without love. And so when we show up
15:28
without love, it's counterintuitive to
15:31
to safety, to vulnerability, to trust.
15:35
And so when I say, you know, at the end
15:37
of the show, lead with love, it'll never
15:39
steer you wrong, that's just as much a
15:41
reminder for myself as it is for the
15:44
people that are listening because I know
15:46
so deeply that if we don't show up with
15:49
love, what what's it all for?
15:52
Yeah. I'm just I'm just looking at your
15:54
face right now and I can see how deeply
15:57
that is meaningful to you.
16:00
So,
16:00
it's not easy all the time, right?
16:01
Things upset us or hurt us or piss us
16:04
off or make us feel helpless. But, you
16:06
know, at the basis of it, if we can be
16:08
in love for self and for others, I mean,
16:11
then at least we're in line with making
16:13
the world better.
16:14
So, if you lead with love,
16:17
say it again.
16:18
If you lead with love, it'll never steer
16:19
you wrong. That would be what you would
16:21
like to whisper to every single person
16:24
who's listening right now.
16:25
Yeah.
16:25
To every single person that you know.
16:27
That would be awesome. Like leave the
16:29
world better.
16:31
Yeah.
16:31
And love does that.
16:34
Yeah. Yeah. Love does that.
16:37
Not much else does. Not much else
16:39
consistently has more power than love,
16:42
you know. And so through fear, through
16:46
pain, through trauma,
16:48
love is the thing. And and you know, we
16:50
did an episode, Justine and I did an
16:52
episode about like self as the
16:53
therapist. And I think that's important
16:55
to just remember like we need to bring
16:57
love as our self as the therapist. And I
17:01
think that, you know, I want I want
17:03
people who come into contact with me or
17:05
know me in a closer way to feel loved,
17:08
to feel like love is something they
17:10
deserve.
17:12
And even if they don't know me, you
17:14
know, but they listen to the show or
17:16
they learn from teaching or whatever it
17:18
is that I'm doing, I I hope they feel
17:21
loved or cared for and know and know
17:23
that they deserve it.
17:24
Yeah. And I guess I guess this is an
17:27
unfair question because this question is
17:29
going to be like which of your kids is
17:30
your favorite.
17:32
It
17:32
depends on who pisses me off. Taylor's
17:34
in the back raising her hand. She's like
17:36
me. I'm like usually.
17:38
Right. Well, besides Taylor being your
17:40
favorite. So there's therapy and there's
17:43
teaching and there's the podcast and
17:46
there's running the business. There's
17:48
the creation of the software company.
17:51
Which which one feels like in any given
17:55
moment it gives you the most back?
17:58
Gosh, that's the hardest question ever.
18:01
Yay. Yay me. Hardest question ever.
18:04
Being a business owner doesn't give me
18:07
much back consider compared to like
18:09
being a therapist and or teaching other
18:12
therapists how to be better therapists.
18:14
I would say those two pretty much run
18:15
neck andneck. I'm excited about the
18:17
software company. It is going to be
18:19
revolutionary for therapists. It is
18:21
going to change the way we are able to
18:22
do this work and make us so much better.
18:24
And I feel excited about that. But
18:27
that's that's not the same as like
18:30
touching another's soul and helping them
18:32
find in themselves how like wonderful
18:35
and worthy they are. And I get to see
18:37
that as an instructor. I get to see that
18:39
through people's practicum experiences.
18:41
I get to see that obviously in the
18:44
therapeutic relationship and when
18:46
people, you know, feel so good about who
18:49
they've become or returned to when
18:51
they've been able to bring down their
18:52
armor and bring down their walls and be
18:54
able to show up in relationships with
18:56
vulnerability. I'm like, how does it get
18:58
better than that? When you can help
19:00
someone be in relationship with love and
19:03
it trickles down and it ripples into
19:05
their families, into their parenting,
19:06
into their friendships, into their if
19:09
they're a boss or if they're an
19:10
employee, like when people heal from
19:12
therapy, it spreads through their whole
19:15
life. And it's such a collateral benefit
19:17
like that feels so good to be able to be
19:20
part of that. And I get to do that as a
19:22
teacher as well because, you know, not
19:24
only am I helping one person as a
19:26
therapist find their way back to their
19:27
true most original self, but when I
19:32
teach therapists how to be better at
19:33
being a therapist with the MDR training,
19:35
I'm like, it's more force for force
19:37
multiplication. So that's really
19:39
exciting too to be able to gosh not only
19:41
am I now, you know, helping these 20
19:44
clients, but if I'm helping therapists
19:46
become better teachers or better better
19:49
therapists, you know, now I'm helping
19:51
them become better at helping their 20
19:53
30 40 50 people. So it feels like a more
19:56
um exponential force multiplication of
19:59
skill sets. But both things I would say
20:02
give me a lot of joy and I I have a lot
20:04
of fun. I think there's less one-on-one
20:07
stress as a teacher because the
20:11
responsibility isn't as great.
20:14
The liability isn't as great.
20:17
So, I think that you don't have to be as
20:19
intentional, thoughtful, or or careful
20:22
because what you say as a par as a to a
20:25
student has less responsibility,
20:28
although not maybe less impact if that
20:30
makes sense. Yeah. But like if I if I
20:33
misstep with a client, I mean that can
20:35
be malpractice. If I misstep as a
20:37
teacher, you know, and I got feedback
20:39
that said that wasn't cool or whatever
20:40
that I did that, I can address it, you
20:44
know, more head-on and recognize people
20:47
can take it or they can, you know, leave
20:49
the course or they can not tell people
20:51
to take my course, but it's not like as
20:53
personally responsible.
20:55
I don't know if that makes sense. You're
20:57
a teacher, too.
20:58
Yeah.
20:58
Like, do you do you know what I'm
21:00
saying?
21:00
Yeah. Well, so for me it's kind of like
21:02
the visual that I have with what you
21:04
said. It's like when you throw a pebble
21:06
into into a pond, right? And how the
21:09
ripple just spreads out to the end. And
21:12
I think about teaching and and the
21:14
things that we do for a larger audience
21:18
is like throwing several pebbles in,
21:20
right?
21:21
And this ripple affects this ripple
21:23
affects this ripple. And that's just
21:26
that's just so beautiful to me. And it's
21:28
so for me it's very grounding to be able
21:31
to do that.
21:32
Yeah, they both have such special
21:34
benefits and and also it's nice to
21:36
change skill sets a little bit. I mean
21:38
I've always said that I'm the teacher in
21:39
the as far as the counseling room. It's
21:42
it's just another classroom.
21:44
It's just teaching you a different set
21:45
of skills and then also having a little
21:47
bit more nuanced connection with the
21:50
person while you're working with them.
21:51
But it's teaching. I mean even with EMDR
21:53
therapy adaptive information processing
21:55
model, it's a learning theory. And so
21:57
we're always teaching anyway, but I
21:59
think that it is a little bit of a
22:00
different energy level and and there's
22:03
also something really cool about like a
22:06
lot of feedback. You know, if I have 10
22:08
people in a course or 20 people in a
22:10
course and they're all going, "Wow, that
22:12
was so cool." or this or that or they're
22:14
all benefiting. There's like really cool
22:16
energy that gets to come back to me and
22:17
it's a little bit um you know, it's
22:19
grand more grand
22:21
but all of it's really fun. I feel lucky
22:23
to get to do all of it. Well, that was a
22:25
very long answer to your question, but
22:27
it was it was the perfect length of the
22:29
answer to my question. So, my next
22:31
question is is if you were to to
22:34
interview young Kelly, what would you
22:37
want to ask young Kelly? What would you
22:39
want to find out from young Kelly?
22:41
My brain went to like advice I'd give
22:43
young Kelly, not questions I'd want to
22:45
ask young Kelly. I was like, I'll tell
22:46
you what I'd tell her. Um,
22:49
you know, I think that really getting
22:51
curious about what motivates behavior is
22:54
important and I would want to know, you
22:56
know, why why do you want to do this?
22:58
Why do you want to do that? And let's
22:59
get really clear about it. Because I
23:00
think as a be as a beginning counselor,
23:02
I thought it was about giving advice.
23:04
And then when I learned like, oh, that's
23:06
not at all it and actually you need them
23:08
to come to their own advice based on who
23:10
they say they want to be and it's really
23:12
got absolutely nothing to do with your
23:13
own agenda. I was like, "Well, then what
23:16
will I do?" Like, "I want to just tell
23:19
people how they should behave." And I
23:20
was very, you know, opinionated and
23:22
bossy and things like that. And and I
23:24
have a dear friend that once told me,
23:26
she's like, "Kelly, no one has better
23:27
intention than you." She goes, "But not
23:29
everybody wants to hear what you think
23:30
about it." And I was like, but it was
23:32
good feedback because I didn't know that
23:33
about myself and that that um was how I
23:36
was perceived. And so I would say like
23:39
what's what's motivating you for
23:40
whatever it is that you're doing and be
23:42
be clear about that and check in on it
23:43
and be accountable about having
23:46
motivation that's pure and not just
23:48
ladder chasing or hustling for your
23:50
worth because that's going to burn you
23:51
out.
23:52
Yeah. And and I did hit a point at that
23:54
point when it was really motivated that
23:56
way like maybe if I do this next thing
23:58
it will be good enough and um it never
24:01
is because that's coming from inside of
24:02
you
24:03
and no matter what you do or how
24:04
impressive you are it it's doesn't fill
24:07
that you know that thing you're looking
24:09
to fill about worth and self until you
24:12
get good with that just know I'm worthy
24:15
whether I laid on the couch today or
24:16
whether I you know built a pond. both
24:19
things are worthy because I am worthy
24:21
because I am.
24:22
That's it. You don't have to do anything
24:24
for that. So, I think that I would want
24:25
to
24:26
really be interested for my young self
24:28
to constantly be checking in with what
24:31
are what's your motivation?
24:33
Okay.
24:33
Yeah.
24:34
We're going to flip the script on that
24:35
question. What do you think young Kelly
24:37
would would want to say to you where you
24:40
are?
24:40
Young Kelly would want to say to me,
24:43
like without the wisdom I currently
24:44
have, have more fun. Don't forget to
24:47
play.
24:48
Yeah. you know, like you're more of a
24:50
badass if you have balance than if
24:52
you're just always killing it. And I
24:55
think I didn't know that really for a
24:58
very long time. I mean, I just I you
25:00
know, I I was not as integrated. And so
25:01
I thought if you play, then you're
25:03
foolish or you're you know, not
25:05
responsible or people won't take you
25:07
seriously. And I think that when I was
25:10
younger, you know, there was different
25:11
seasons where I probably played more
25:15
than it seasons of my, you know,
25:16
adulthood. And now I'm trying to return
25:19
to more play, you know? I mean, we tried
25:22
as parents to like offer our kids
25:24
opportunities to be have fun and we
25:27
would take them camping and skiing and
25:29
trips and things like that. I mean, we
25:31
did a lot to try to like cultivate
25:32
experiences and play.
25:34
But with so many kids, it, you know,
25:36
there was a lot of managing as opposed
25:38
to just being and being silly. And I
25:41
think now, you know, now that we're
25:43
empty nesters, I'm trying to just like
25:45
give myself permission to play, you
25:48
know, and we we are members of a yacht
25:50
club in San Diego and we haven't really
25:53
been very involved with it because we
25:55
haven't had our boat um located at the
25:58
actual yacht yacht club and we've
26:00
recently moved over there and I've been
26:03
there quite a bit this last summer
26:04
because summer's awesome in San Diego
26:06
and summer's not awesome in Phoenix and
26:08
so I've been trying to be there. I know
26:10
everybody's surprised. I know that this
26:12
is news for you. And it's been at this
26:14
balance of like missing my my kids and
26:16
my grandkids and wanting to be with
26:18
them, but also realizing like I've
26:20
dedicated so much time to service and
26:22
being there for people. And I really
26:24
haven't spent like very much time in my
26:27
adult time just playing. And so it's
26:30
funny because I I went to this um bingo
26:32
night which I thought was so funny. It
26:34
was at the yach club and it was it was
26:36
so fun. And I looked around and I was
26:38
like, "This is summer camp for
26:40
grown-ups." Like, it's just silly,
26:43
goofy, be fun, let your guard down,
26:46
don't be in charge of anything. And I'm
26:48
like, it's it's it's the season to do
26:51
more of that for sure. So, I think my
26:53
young self would need to tell my older
26:55
self, don't take yourself so seriously.
26:58
Don't forget how to play. Not
26:59
everything's a big deal. You know, don't
27:01
sweat the small stuff and it's all small
27:02
stuff and it'll just just chill out a
27:05
little bit. I think that's what I would
27:06
have told her.
27:07
Okay. So, so it sounds like
27:10
you have learned a lot about work life
27:13
balance.
27:14
I It is an It is a constant effort,
27:17
right?
27:18
It is a constant like reminder like
27:20
wait, it's okay to just not always be
27:23
hustling and working and stuff.
27:24
Yeah. Well, and I think that's that's
27:26
the interesting thing about balance,
27:28
right? Is to stay balanced, we're always
27:30
making micro movements,
27:31
right? to to make sure that there we're
27:34
not too far one way or the other.
27:36
Yeah.
27:37
Right. And being in line with our values
27:39
is like figuring out what does that look
27:41
like and everything. So, yeah, I would
27:43
say that's the biggest piece is make
27:46
sure you play.
27:47
Make sure you play. All right. Well, so
27:50
I would like to thank you for playing
27:52
with me.
27:53
Yes.
27:54
So, I think I think it was I think this
27:56
was valuable. I think people would love
27:58
the chance, well, hopefully they'll love
28:00
this chance to get to know you a little
28:02
bit better. Thank you.
28:03
And the playful side and and all the
28:06
wonderful things about you. So, I really
28:08
appreciate you allowing me to flip the
28:11
script on you today.
28:13
Thank you. I appreciate the opportunity
28:15
to do it. And it's funny because I
28:17
always want this show to be like a value
28:18
ad. Um, and I'm not sure just knowing
28:21
more about me is very valuable. But um
28:24
that said, maybe some of the things that
28:26
I've shared can be opportunities for
28:28
people to apply to their own lives and
28:30
some of the lessons that I've learned
28:32
can be shared lessons and and we can all
28:35
be in this journey together growing
28:37
together. So, thank you for for uh
28:39
inviting me to do this.
28:40
Thank you.
28:41
Right. So, we hope that you had fun with
28:43
this one and found some insights that
28:45
were valuable and I appreciate you
28:48
tuning in. So, thank you so much. If you
28:50
liked the episode, please let us know by
28:52
liking. Make sure you subscribe and
28:55
maybe make some comments or share. And
28:57
if there's other topics you want uh me
28:59
to talk about, please let me know
29:00
because I'm always down to make sure we
29:02
meet the needs of our audience. So until
29:05
we meet again, don't forget to lead with
29:07
love. It'll never steer you wrong.
29:10
[Music]
29:14
Hey.
29:18
[Music]
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