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Why the UK remains a magnet for migrants | LBC
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Jul 12, 2025
Shelagh Fogarty is joined by criminal barrister Caroline Haughey OBE KC to discuss migration in light of the new UK-France migration deal. Sir Keir Starmer has announced his "one in, one out" deal as a "groundbreaking" agreement, which will allow illegal migrants to be returned to France quickly in exchange for someone legally allowed to live in the UK. Caroline Haughey breaks down why the UK has become an ‘invitational environment’ for migrants, pointing to a shortage of domestic workers willing to do manual jobs and a resulting reliance on migrant labour. She highlights weak ID checks and illegal employment as key issues. The pair discuss how individuals who are 'fit and capable' to work should be contributing to society and the economy. Listen to the full show on the all-new LBC App: https://app.af.lbc.co.uk/btnc/thenewlbcapp #shelaghfogarty #migration #oneinoneout #immigration #ukpolitics #labour #LBC LBC is the home of live debate around news and current affairs in the UK. Join in the conversation and listen at https://www.lbc.co.uk/ Sign up to LBC’s weekly newsletter here: https://l-bc.co/signup
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Caroline Hohe, who's a KC, joins me, criminal barrister with Furnival Chambers, who played a
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major role in drafting legislation in the Modern Slavery Act back in 2015, because clearly under
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the radar work is central to that activity as well, isn't it? What's on your mind today
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having heard the announcement yesterday about this deal? Well, in principle, well, there's a couple of factors that spring to mind. First of all
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the reality is the UK remains an attractive place to migrate to. Is that because it is easier
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to slide into the grey economy or under the radar to use your expression much more easily than it is
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anywhere else? There are a number of factors for that. We have an economy where there is a need for
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people to work in manual labour jobs and not enough people who are willing to do those jobs
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We have the population who can do the jobs, but not people willing to do them. For example
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rubbish recycling or sorting recycled rubbish, food processing, picking in fields. And historically, we have resorted to migrant workforces, temporary migrant licensed
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That's what Gangmasters Licensing Association is for. We have always had that process, certainly in the last 20 years
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unfortunately that becomes an invitational environment for people to go I can come and
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work here I can work temporarily I can do 10 shifts and earn enough money to get me through
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to the next week and then I'll move to my next temporary job and it becomes a cycle in under
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the radar work and the reality is we're not doing enough checks because employers don't have enough
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time. They resort to using employment agencies who, in the past, we've had unscoopers employment
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agencies, certainly in Operation Forty case that I prosecuted. And as a result, checks aren't done
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People don't give the correct address. People are being exploited. People are doing it voluntarily
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We saw it for example in the Leicester rag trade over lockdown and the impact it had on Boohoo So there are a number of factors but the reality is there are a wealth of jobs available to people who want to work in that under the radar economy
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It's the answer ID cards. I mean, when people do it by the book
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migrants who come here by the book, they get something called a BRP, don't they? A biometric
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residence permit that then allows them, because they're identifiable essentially, so they can then
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go to an employer and say, could I have, you know, two shifts a week or five days a week
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whatever it is. But when you don't have one of those, and there are people still prepared to say
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oh, yeah, we need a hot carrier on that job, or we need a brick, somebody will help the brick
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layer on that job, just come along, you'll get, you know, you'll get 30 quid or 50 quid a day
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whatever it is. Until we have ID cards, loads of people can just do that, can't they? They can just
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hide as they go about their business? Yes. On a personal level, I'm not sure I'm in favour
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of ID cards because I like the fact that we are, contrary to popular belief, a fairly libertarian
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society. For example, people aren't aware we're one of the only jurisdictions in the world
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never mind Europe, who doesn't allow the use of phone intercept evidence as evidence
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but there has to be a balanced and proportionate approach do we expect employers who need urgent
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immediate employees to do very basic checks show me your bank card show me your passport
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show me your right to be here before you can set foot in my premises and do the job
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Now, to me, those aren't challenging checks, but I'm not in that business. I'm not running a building site where people don't walk around with their passport on them or their driving license. Yes, they should have their bank cards
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but from the perspective that I come from as someone who prosecutes modern slavery
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and exploitation cases those to me are red flags if someone doesn't have their bank card
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their personal identity be that an ID card from a European jurisdiction
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or a passport why? who's got it? why haven they got it where is their bank card where their money going and if you don have it with you today and that can be normal then bring it tomorrow that kind of thing Yeah absolutely I think where things fall is as you say people want someone for a day or an event
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And when you're in that environment, it's really hard to do those checks
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And people will literally live under that economy, moving from job to job without ever being captured
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and by that I don't mean detained I mean being captured as someone who's underneath
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the legitimate economy. And when let's just think of the people in the channel to start with when
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they come across and you know seek asylum and then are in hotels say for the sake of argument
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because we know many are what freedom do they have just to pop out during the day
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and do that job, get the 50 quid and come back in the evening
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As far as I'm aware, and I'm not an immigration practitioner, total freedom
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It's different if they're in a confined environment, but in a detention centre
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that's an entirely separate environment. But if they're living in a hotel in Brighton or wherever, they can come and go as they please
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And what is to say that they're not going and earning their 50 quid to supplement their
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asylum payments that they're getting from the state? Nothing. But more importantly, why aren't those jobs being filled by domestic national workers
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The reality is there are many domestic national workers who are capable of doing the job but simply don't want to
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What do we do about that? I'm not a politician by any stretch of the imagination
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But it is interesting to see this issue about who is entitled to claim benefits and the reaction that has been had
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both by various parties and by the public. But you have to ask yourself
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if you're capable of work, shouldn't you do the work to contribute to the economy
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for the whole of society? I mean, I'm thinking back to when I was
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you know, either pre-uni or just after uni, when you don't, you know
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I did have a Saturday job here and there or a summer job, but no work immediately after graduating for example If I hadn quickly got work in the kind of arena that I wanted to get it in I would have been prepared to fruit pick I would have thought it
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was, you know, I wouldn't have thought it was my future career, but I would have been prepared to do it. And I would have been prepared to do recycling stuff, the kind of things that you
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mentioned. I would have been. Are we saying now that young people just aren't? Well, it's not just
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young people it's all people anybody when in my chambers when we interview the chambers of which
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i'm a member we interview one of the things we look for is seeing if people have worked
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in the real world as we call it have done jobs where you're front facing with the public or done
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jobs where you have to work hard speaking from the perspective of a criminal practitioner we work
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really long hours pretty poor pay um but we expect people to have got jobs my eldest daughter is 17
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at the end of this month she has already been working in a cafe from the age of 14
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my um because that is the expectation that you need to go out and get a job and work and work
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properly because and learn to be an adult slowly but how else are you going to contribute to society
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yeah it's a it's a it's a complex picture isn't it i mean it is and it isn't you almost feel like
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saying just get it done go and do it you're not getting your benefits until you do it obviously when somebody's able-bodied. But on the migrant front, it is a complex picture unless we
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make a decision to allow people to work and contribute to the Treasury when they do, to the
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Exchequer. That's the point. If you work, you should contribute because you have the benefit
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of a free at source National Health Service. We have a state that acts as a mattress to those who
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are, by a notch, acts as a mattress for those who are falling through the cracks. We have incredible
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societal support. For those that arrive. Yeah, for those that arrive and also those resident here
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that are in need. If you are fit and capable of work, you should be able to do it. And that's not
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a political statement. That's a practical statement. If you're working an earning, then
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something of what you're earning should be going to fund back into the state to help others get
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into the same position as you are. Thank you very much, Caroline. Lots of food for thought there, Caroline Hohey
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