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Sir Keir Starmer has announced a partial u-turn on winter fuel payments after months of furious opposition from the public and MPs.
The PM said this lunchtime that he wants to ensure "more pensioners are eligible for winter fuel payments" going forwards.
He used PMQs to say that “as the economy improves, we want to make sure that people feel those improvements".
And he said that the changes would be confirmed at a fiscal event - likely to be the spending review in June, or the Budget in November.
The PM told MPs in the House of Commons today: “I have made clear... that as the economy improves we want to take measures that will impact on people’s lives and, therefore we will look at the threshold."
As the news breaks, LBC's Natasha Clark gives Shelagh Fogarty the latest Parliamentary gossip.
Listen to the full show on the all-new LBC App: https://app.af.lbc.co.uk/btnc/thenewlbcapp
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0:00
Natasha Clarke is here, LBC's political editor, to talk about this and a few other things besides
0:04
But on this, we know that already the government in the form of the DWP has been making moves to get lots of pensioners
0:12
who aren't on pension credit but should be onto it so that they don't lose their winter fuel
0:17
But what's been announced today is beyond that. It's different to that, isn't it
0:21
Yes, Sheila, absolutely. This is a partial U-turn from the Prime Minister today on the idea of the winter fuel payments cut
0:28
And the government, it's fair to say, have taken the flack for months on this, haven't they
0:31
We've heard from callers up and down the country worried about what this will mean for them
0:36
And like you say, the government has been trying to get as many people who are eligible onto pension credit and onto these winter fuel payment help that they can get
0:45
But this is Keir Starmer now after lots and lots of opposition and privately MPs have been saying to me for a while that they believe that the reason they lost the Runcorn by-election was partly because of these winter fuel payment cuts
0:56
So this was Keir Starmer today in the House of Commons announcing that partial U-turn
1:26
And that is why we want to ensure that as we go forward, more pensioners are eligible for winter fuel payment
1:35
As you would expect, Mr Speaker, we will only make decisions we can afford
1:39
That is why we will look at that as part of a fiscal event. So at the moment, Sheila, you can't get it if you earn more than £11,500 a year as your household
1:50
So when he said we're looking at the thresholds, it sounds to me like that's the kind of thing they'll look at
1:54
whether to raise that threshold so more people will be eligible So it not a complete scrapping of the policy And he did say that he won be announcing it in full until a fiscal event Now we don know when that is That could be the fiscal review that is happening
2:09
the spending review that's happening next month in June, or we could have to wait until another budget, potentially
2:14
which obviously would be in November this year. And that gives the economy time to do its thing
2:18
hopefully in an upward trajectory from everyone's perspective. Yeah, and I've sensed a real change in the government language and tone this week
2:25
They have started to now talk about, and obviously the inflation figures today completely disregarded that theory, but they have started to say the economy is starting to look up
2:34
It's starting to turn around. When we have that money, these are the things we want to do
2:38
And I've been speaking to MPs this week and that's exactly what they want from the government. They say that even if we don't have the money to do it right now, we want to hear from the government a list of priorities
2:47
We want welfare benefits. We want winter fuel to be among those things that they will consider when we do have more money
2:54
So it seems that's what the government are doing. And consider, if not adding to, then certainly not taking away from as much as they're currently planning to do so
3:01
Exactly, which obviously lends us nicely onto the other story you wanted to discuss, which was benefits
3:06
And it's exactly the same thing that I'm hearing from government, from Labour MPs, that they are really in listening mode about the proposed £5 billion worth of welfare cuts
3:14
that Liz Kendall, the Department for Work and Pensions Secretary, has been talking about
3:18
Now, the reason why they're in listening mode is because so many MPs are privately very, very unhappy with it
3:23
knocking on the door saying we cannot vote for this and this is going to come to a vote in the
3:27
House of Commons in probably the next month or so and number 10 very worried about what that's
3:32
going to look like um 100 MPs or up to 100 MPs privately according to some reports and some MPs
3:38
I've spoken to say that they have signed a private letter saying to the chief whip saying I can't
3:42
support these there's a possibility I might vote against it so there is a reason why Keir Starmer
3:47
has said what he said today at Prime Minister's Questions about Winterfuel and I imagine we will
3:51
probably hear at some point in the next month something about benefits which could soften the
3:57
blow and one of those options is a three child benefit cap rather than a two child benefit cap obviously that not going to cover everybody but it could help soften that a little bit And we heard Labour MPs talk about this time and time again
4:09
They want to see that two-child benefit cap completely scrapped. But some of the charities that I've been speaking to today say it's just not going to go far enough
4:16
There are so many millions of children who are already in poverty in this country. They want the cap to completely go
4:22
And we can hear from them, can we? You're going to be hearing from someone from Save the Children a little bit later on in the show
4:28
but I can give you a clip of Environment Secretary Steve Reid's reaction when I asked him earlier today
4:32
whether he would be happy with a three-child benefit cap. I think this government is looking at what we need to do to tackle child poverty
4:40
It increased unacceptably under the previous government. I don't think there's any one single measure we can take, actually, Nick, that will fix it
4:47
It's a whole range of things, growing the economy and getting more money into the pockets of the lowest paid
4:51
as we've done with increasing the national minimum wage, seems to me a very important part of that mix
4:56
And I spoke earlier today with Liz Kendall. She was giving a speech earlier on benefits
5:00
and she said that the government is listening very carefully to concerns about this benefits policy
5:05
I am not just listening, but hearing people's concerns. Myself and the Minister for Social Security and Disability
5:12
Stephen Timms, are talking in detail, not just with MPs, but many of the organisations in the room today
5:21
And we want to make sure we address all of people's concerns
5:26
Whatever the fiscal position that the government faces, I think the system as a whole needs to change
5:34
We are an older, sicker nation. We have more people with disabilities than health conditions
5:40
I don't think the welfare state in its broadest sense is meeting that challenge
5:47
That was Liz Kendall speaking earlier today, trying to make the case for why she believes that the current benefit system is unsustainable
5:54
too much money being spent and not going to be there if we're not careful for people who really
5:58
do need it On the question of the Winterfuel decision that is to come I mean clearly something is coming It always struck me as very politically clumsy the way it was announced the fact that it wasn given time and tapered in some way or consulted on
6:14
Because there was, I think there was already a broad consensus that lots of people don't need it and accept that they don't need it
6:21
And that when times are straightened, you want to make sure that welfare money goes to those who really, really need it
6:26
That conversation had been had, I think. And so to just go straight in, you know, both feet and just say, right, that's it, cut and the threshold really low, just struck me as very clumsy
6:38
Yeah. And you know what? Actually, Keir Starmer's announcing of this today was also clumsy because there's a lot of questions now about this policy because he's not made a formal announcement
6:46
He's not said... So what are you going to do? We don't know what he's going to do. We don't know what the threshold will be
6:50
We don't know what timeframe the government's looking at. Is it going to come in before the winter
6:54
They can't say. They're just making movement noises, aren't they? Yeah, but it's actually not the best way to announce policies
7:00
If you're the prime minister, you're going to announce a major change in government policy. People are going to ask you, well, how are you going to pay for it
7:06
We don't know. When is it going to come? Is it going to come in place for the winter? We don't know
7:10
I think, actually, despite the fact that many people today will be completely welcoming of this change in tone for the Prime Minister
7:17
there's a lot of unanswered questions. And until he announces it in full, there's going to be a huge void for everybody to speculate about what this is going to look like
7:25
And that's going to, of course, lead to some very worried pensions later this year, too. And MPs are going to have to continue to deal with it with their constituents, aren't they
7:32
And they won't necessarily have an answer for them. Exactly. We don't actually know as well why the Prime Minister's made this choice now
7:38
He's talking about the cost of living pressures. They have been there for years. So what's changed
7:42
And Number 10 said to us two weeks ago that there would be no change in this position
7:47
Of course, the Prime Minister has now changed his mind. Well, what has made him change his mind? When has he changed his mind
7:52
We just don't know. Well, maybe it was that interview I did with Rachel Reeves. You never know, do you
7:56
Oh, Rachel said it. So now I'm going to have to do it. Sheila's pushed us to the wall and now we've done it
8:02
Hope so. Thanks, Natasha. Natasha Clark, LBC's political editor
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