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Tory says criticism of Islam is ‘censored’ and wants burqa banned | LBC
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Jun 11, 2025
Nick Timothy, the Conservative MP for West Suffolk, is tabling a bill in Parliament to 'restore free speech' as he fears 'criticism' of Islam is 'officially censored' in the UK. The Tories have followed Reform's lead after Sarah Pochin MP asked the Prime Minister if the UK would ban burqas. Tory laeder Kemi Badonech has since said she refuses to meet constituents who wear face coverings. Speaking to Henry Riley, Mr Timothy said he supported such a ban, and that the burqa is 'damaging to society.' Mr Timothy continued by telling Henry the burqa was bad for integration and assimilation, which in the UK are at 'very unhealthy' levels. 'You can draw a line between Pakistani Muslim and white communities,' Mr Timothy said. Listen to the full show on the all-new LBC App: https://app.af.lbc.co.uk/btnc/thenewlbcapp #henryriley #burqaban #islam #freespeech #integration #immigration #tories #kemibadenoch #nigelfarage #reform #labour #LBC LBC is the home of live debate around news and current affairs in the UK. Join in the conversation and listen at https://www.lbc.co.uk/ Sign up to LBC’s weekly newsletter here: https://l-bc.co/signup
View Video Transcript
0:00
We've seen two recent cases where there was a man in Manchester who I think will be on trial later this year
0:08
And we saw a man who protested outside the Turkish embassy in February who was found guilty of public order offences last week
0:16
I think it's wrong to use the Public Order Act in this way. And I'm introducing a bill today to try to restore freedom of speech to criticise religion
0:24
Do you think there would be the same outcry if it was the Bible that was burned? not outside the Turkish embassy, but, say, outside, I don't know, the French embassy
0:30
Well, this is, I think, this gets to the heart of why it's wrong to use the Public Order Act in this way
0:35
because basically the law is now saying that the person using the language or engaging in the protest
0:44
is responsible for the potentially violent reaction of others who are offended by criticism of their religious beliefs
0:53
which I think is completely wrong-headed anyway. And in any other context, we would say this is victim blaming. It's just inappropriate
1:01
But we should be honest that since 1988 and the publication of the Satanic Verses and the Fat War and the protests against Salman Rushdie then
1:10
we've had a number of cases where people have offended Muslims in a particular way, like the Bakli teacher who showed a depiction of Muhammad
1:20
the boys who scuffed the Koran in Wakefield. There are other examples
1:25
and where people have responded to those incidents with threats and intimidation and violence
1:32
And because it's anticipating the violent reaction of others, it is being applied to cases involving Islam because we have a history of obviously not all Muslims
1:44
but some Muslims reacting with violence and threats and intimidation. With regards to what happened outside the Turkish embassy
1:52
I mean, it was, of course, the burning of the Koran, but also there was a pretty vile language used by the individual
1:57
which I'm sure you'd accept. But, I mean, what happens in that position then? Is that just not an offence at all
2:02
Because, I mean, surely that is intimidation to some extent, or that is certainly not pleasant for people, is it
2:08
to have F Islam shouted outside an embassy, or is that tough luck? Yeah, look, I'm not pretending it's nice
2:14
Nobody thinks this is nice behaviour, but there's a difference between doing something that's unpleasant
2:20
and doing something that should be illegal. And we should also be honest that the reason the authorities
2:29
are starting to use the Public Order Act in this way is because of the fear of a violent reaction
2:36
And if you give in to an angry mob in this way
2:40
they're not going to stop there. Angry mobs always demand more. And this is about the imposition of a minority of people
2:47
the imposition of their values onto wider society. And I don't think that's okay
2:53
And it's not a coincidence that some of these blasphemy cases involving Islam
2:58
have people reacting and threatening other Muslims because it's not just about imposing values on wider society
3:09
It also part of a battle to define what is kind of normative Islam You mentioned the Batley teacher who as far as I aware is still in hiding with his family You mentioned the four students up at Wakefield
3:21
Are we too afraid to criticise Islam? I think it is undoubtedly the case that there is some self-censorship and now official censorship when it comes to criticising Islam and Islamic beliefs
3:38
Now, I'm not a Muslim. I don't believe that Muhammad was sent by God to spread his word
3:50
I don't think I should be expected by anybody to live according to either the son of the body of Islamic law
4:02
or other people's expectations of not criticizing that, not questioning that. There are historians who should be free to study the life of Muhammad
4:16
Yeah, but you're not living under Islamic law, though, Mr Timothy. What I'm saying is there are people who are trying to impose
4:23
their values on the rest of us. And who is that? The Muslim Brotherhood, for example
4:28
Organizations like the Muslim Brotherhood are definitely part of this. So, you know, I should be clear, we're not talking about all Muslims, we're not talking about even a majority of Muslims. But there is an intolerance among organizations like the Muslim Brotherhood, the many organizations that exist in this country that may not submit it, but are connected to the Muslim Brotherhood that are set up by the Muslim Brotherhood
4:55
And there are people beyond those organisations who have these intolerant views
4:59
But we should be prepared to say no. That's not what living in a free country is
5:04
That's not what pluralism means. You have to respect the views of other people if you want your views respected
5:10
Just going back to the case outside the Turkish embassy, the sort of last thing on this
5:14
But, I mean, you say that the context is very important. If it was, say, outside a mosque after Friday prayers, after Salah, for example
5:24
or if it was outside a church after a Sunday Mass, does that change the dynamic there
5:29
I mean, would that, or under your view, would that still be freedom of speech to some extent
5:34
Well, I think, broadly speaking, we should be free to say what we think
5:39
And broadly speaking, we should be free to say that wherever we choose to say it
5:45
There is a line which I think it is legitimate for the police prosecutors and judges to determine
5:51
whether language becomes incitement to violence. That, I think, is totally different
5:57
I'm not a free speech absolutist. Incitement to violence should be illegal
6:02
But merely criticising or insulting... Or burning or... Yeah, or desecrating a text
6:09
is not in itself something that I think should be illegal. And Parliament has never said it should
6:15
There's a few sort of topical issues related to this to some extent that I was keen to get your view on
6:19
The Berkaban, which feels like we've been talking about, it sort of ad nauseum since that question at PMQs but can we be not talking about in workplaces for example I know you written in the telegraph in the past about your view has that changed is that still the same your view on on not quite banning the burqa but you you not being in favor of it per se well i i written
6:38
over a number of years that actually i think it would be a good thing if it were banned um and
6:43
what about women who sorry women who choose to wear it well so so firstly i think um uh i think
6:50
there are lots of women who don't choose to wear it. I think there are obviously norms and pressures
6:54
applied to them. And I think it's a bad thing for them. But this isn't just about individual agency
7:02
This is about the social consequences of having significant numbers of people in a community
7:07
walking around with their faces covered. And that, I think, is incredibly damaging to social trust
7:13
and again, I don't think it's consistent with life in a free and open society
7:20
We need to be able to see one another, to be able to trust one another
7:25
So I think it's terribly damaging. You're a liberty-loving conservative, Mr Timothy
7:29
and for you to then say, I mean, if I choose to, I mean, not me per se, but if I were a Muslim woman and I choose to wear one
7:34
why would I not be able to? And indeed, does that then change based on the hijab, for example
7:38
or the full face covering? Does it depend on how much of the person's face you can see
7:44
Well, I said earlier when we were talking about blasphemy that actually I'm not an absolutist about freedom
7:50
And the thing about conservatism is that actually we believe in paradoxes
7:55
like it's only when you accept there are some restrictions on your freedom that you actually are able to live a freer life
8:02
because that's the reality of living in a complex society alongside lots of other people
8:07
Now, so I don't think it's just a question of individual liberty
8:12
So even though I doubt that lots of women who wear the burqa would choose to do so
8:18
I accept that some probably do choose to do so, but I don't think that's the point because I think it's incredibly damaging to us as a society
8:26
Would that help integration, do you think, if the burqa was banned? Yeah, I think from the perspective of integration and assimilation
8:34
of which we need far more you know we've had massive massive immigration and if you look at
8:42
some of our cities in particular you know you can draw a line the census map shows you you can draw
8:48
a line between where you have areas of you know it's normally sort of Pakistani diaspora
8:55
Muslim Brits living on one side of the line and then the white community living
9:00
on the other. That's really unhealthy. So we've got to do much more on integration and assimilation
9:07
And just on that, yes, I think this is part of it. Paul Scully said there were no-go areas, the former Conservative MP. I mean
9:12
is that the sort of language you'd use? Do you recognise that in some way? I don't know of any parts of the country that I would describe as a no-go area
9:19
but it is undoubtedly true that we have serious problems with a lack of integration and assimilation
9:25
You have to go in a minute because you've got a million questions in Parliament today. But if I could ask you something else, there was a debate in Parliament yesterday on sort of non-stun slaughter, for example, kosher meat or halal meat
9:37
Of course it is linked to some extent with what we talking about those sort of norms from other religions that some people would argue are being imposed Where do you stand on that Would you be in favour of the RSPCA banning all non non slaughter
9:50
So my honest view on this is I don't know yet. I'm actually reading into it and trying to speak to experts to come to a clear view
9:59
What I do know is, having seen some of the footage from some of the halal slaughterhouses
10:04
that standards are not high enough and standards do need to be properly checked against and
10:13
inspected. On the question of stunning or not stunning, to be honest, I am still trying to
10:22
research that and come to my view. I don't want this to become your perfect Sunday morning
10:26
but you're a new Conservative MP. I just want to ask you, because you, of course
10:30
held a position in Downing Street before, a very senior position. How are you finding it
10:34
being among a sort of depleted number of Conservatives. You're a shadow minister now
10:38
I just wonder, is it everything you hoped it would be, Mr Timothy? Well, I think, look, it is a massive privilege to be elected
10:44
and to serve your constituents. And obviously, you know, in the media like this
10:51
we're all talking about what's going on in the Chamber and these kinds of arguments
10:56
First of all, serving people in the constituency in West Suffolk. It's a beautiful place. We're very lucky
11:04
But, you know, we still have our challenges in different ways. That is an enormous privilege. And there is, I think there is nothing better than public service and being able to do that
11:17
The situation that the party finds itself in nationally is very worrying
11:23
And we frankly lost the trust of the country and I think with good reason because of the way government went over the last five years we were in power
11:36
and we have a massive job to show people that we get why they were so fed up with us
11:44
why they wanted us out of government at the general election and that we will be different in future and that we're capable of reflecting their values
11:52
and coming up with serious policies in response to the very serious problems that the country faces
11:59
And we're not there yet. There's a lot of work ahead. And lastly, related to that, we have the new Reform UK chairman this morning. I'm sure you're waiting with a bated breath, although it's a lot of the newspapers. What challenge do they pose? You'll roll your eyes at this, Mr Timothy, but what's the opportunity to work with reform or is that an absolute no-no
12:18
Look, my view is that reform success has come about because of our own failures
12:29
And we need to be honest about that. We need to show people that we understand how we failed and why we failed, and that we can be better in future
12:38
I understand why people are interested in reform. They sound like they have conservative values
12:43
Conservative values are enduring and very popular. so my answer to that question
12:49
is actually this is on us if we do our jobs properly
12:53
then there will be less to worry about with other political parties
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