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Kemi Badenoch: We would ban all doctors' strikes | LBC
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Jul 29, 2025
Nick Ferrari is joined by Matt Vickers, Deputy Chairman of the Conservative Party and Andrew Fisher, columnist with The i newspaper and former senior policy adviser to Jeremy Corbyn. Earlier this week Tory leader Kemi Badenoch said that her party would introduce primary legislation to block medics from taking widespread industrial action, placing the same restrictions on them that apply to police officers and soldiers. Thousands of resident doctors, previously known as junior doctors, began a five-day walkout on Friday after relations between the Government and British Medical Association (BMA) soured over a dispute about pay. Health Secretary Wes Streeting has said the union will not be allowed to "hold the country to ransom" after receiving a 28.9% pay award over the last three years, the highest across the public sector. The BMA says that despite this uplift, pay for resident doctors has declined by a fifth since 2008 once inflation is taken into account. Listen to the full show on the all-new LBC App: https://app.af.lbc.co.uk/btnc/thenewlbcapp #nickferrari #doctorsstrike #ukpolitics #politics #nhs #keirstarmer #kemibadenoch #mattvickers #LBC LBC is the home of live debate around news and current affairs in the UK. Join in the conversation and listen at https://www.lbc.co.uk/ Sign up to LBC’s weekly newsletter here: https://l-bc.co/signup
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0:00
Let's bring in the conversation Deputy Chairman of the Conservative Party, also Shadow Minister for Crime, Policing and Fire, Matt Vickers, who joins me now
0:06
Thank you for coming on. What's the thinking behind this then, as you understand it from the party leader? Good morning
0:11
Good morning, Nick. I think, well, do you know what? I think it's the way forward. When you look at, there's a reason that the police, that the prison service, that the military aren't allowed to strike
0:19
Doctors take our lives in their hands every day. We know what the cost is when these guys go on strike
0:24
the immediate loss of life during that strike, and also the waiting list that emerges as a result of those strikes
0:31
Huge consequences for families and individuals across the country who lose their lives
0:35
This is the only way to solve it. This is the 12th strike. Labour came in, they said, we're going to dish out the dosh
0:40
we'll solve all these things. The problem with giving out, well, with caving in to ridiculous pay demands
0:46
is that the unions come back with yet more. This is not the way forward
0:50
We need to have these bans on strikes because people's lives on the line
0:54
People's lives literally on the line as a result of these strikes. The nurses are believed to be voting later this week
1:00
and newspapers are already suggesting they will vote in support of potential strike action
1:06
Would they be banned too? Well, we've said about minimum service level legislation
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We've already put legislation in place that Labour are now unpicking and going backwards on and aren't applying
1:15
Minimum service levels that you require these public sector organisations and the unions
1:19
if they want to strike, if they want to make the point, they still need to provide a minimum service
1:24
a sensible level of service that lets the country go on, that stops so many lives being put at risk
1:30
That is the way forwards. That is the way to resolve this. Throwing money around just leads to
1:35
if you give in to ridiculous pay demands, someone else comes and asks for ridiculous pay demands as well
1:39
And all of a sudden, the bill goes up, the taxpayer foots the bill, and they come back again next year
1:44
But I'm confused. So the nurses should have minimum service level, but the doctors should be banned
1:49
Why the difference? All should have minimum service level agreements. We should look at it in the round actually
1:55
and what we do need to ban, but actually doctors... But would nurses be allowed to go on strike
1:59
That's the point. Can we just clarify? I think there is a slight differentiation in the fact that doctors have a different role in preserving life and that it much more direct But we would look at everything in the round A the minimum service levels and B who can and cannot strike We know that police officers prison officers
2:14
So nurses do a two-tier job, do they, then, Mr Vickers? They're not as important as doctors
2:18
We'll look at the entire thing in the round. But clearly they're not as important in the view of the Conservative Party as doctors, are they
2:24
Well, we're saying that doctors have an essential role. But what do nurses do? They're not there just to make up the numbers, are they
2:30
No, they have a role. Why isn't a nurse as important as a doctor under the Conservatives
2:34
We would look at that as an option. Anna, stop saying you're looking at it. This is your party leader's policy
2:39
Presumably she's not just made it up. You've already looked at it. I'll ask for the third time
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why is a nurse not as important as a doctor to the Conservatives? They are important in people's health
2:48
But they're not as important. We can let them go on strike, but we can't let doctors... This is a weird one
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How do you imagine nurses are feeling about that this morning, Mr Vickers? I think our nurses do an amazing job
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and have a huge role to play in the NHS and keeping people well and supporting people in all sorts of situations
3:03
But when it comes down to it, when you're rushed into hospital, Nick, tomorrow, it's the doctor
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I was going to say it was such relish, Mr Vickers, but do go on. Should it happen, Nick
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that you're rushed into hospital tomorrow? I'm pretty sure you would want to ensure
3:15
that there was a doctor in that hospital at the time. Yeah, but I'd want a nurse around as well
3:19
so that he or she can make sure continue to administer care lastly, Mr Vickers, surely, wouldn't I
3:24
You would want the full shebang, but actually what we've seen in recent times
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is the loss of life, The consequences are felt much more thoroughly as a result of those doctor's strikes
3:33
The 12th strike for another 29% pay rise. I don't think you'll be seeing one of them shortly
3:39
Before I let you go, the Prime Minister is meeting with President Trump later today
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What line does he need to take about Gaza and other international affairs, Mr Vickers
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Well, I think, you know, everybody is devastated by what they're seeing in Gaza
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But at the same time, we cannot have a terrorist organisation running Gaza
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still holding on to those hostages. I haven't seen photographs of any of those hostages recently
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And as regards President Trump's assertion that there is an invasion happening to Europe
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would you use that word I think we got a huge huge problem with immigration in this country The numbers are way too high That deterrent needs putting in place People cannot be allowed to break into this country arrive illegally and be allowed to stay claiming the benefits and claiming all of the other costs to the British
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taxpayer. Those scenes that we're seeing at hotels are entirely unacceptable. The fact the number
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has started to go up since Labour came into power is devastating for this country and devastating
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But is it an invasion? Would you use that word? I'd say there are devastating numbers of people
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So you wouldn't use the word invasion, just to clarify? It's uncontrolled and it's devastating
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It has serious consequences and costs. All right. I don't think we're going to get the word invasion
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but I'm grateful to you, Matt Vickers. Thank you for putting out the line there that the Conservatives would look to ban doctors from going on strike
4:55
Matt Vickers, Deputy Chairman of the Conservative Party. Listening, Andrew Fisher, who's a economist with the Eye newspaper
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former senior policy advisor to Jeremy Corbyn, working on both the 2017 and 19 Labour manifestos
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and joining me now. Your take on this potential policy. Andrew, good morning
5:09
Good morning. Well, I think there's a bit of a cheek for the Conservatives who drove down doctor's pay, who raised waiting lists before doctors ever went on strike in the NHS
5:18
Waiting lists went up from two and a half million in 2010 when the Tories got in to four and a half million before the pandemic and then seven million after
5:27
So, whereas doctor's pay dropped by 25 percent against CPI between 2010 and 2024, the average workers pay went down by three percent in that time
5:39
So junior doctors have had a particularly rough patch. Nurses' pay went down quite a bit as well, I think about 12% to 15% in that time
5:46
So the doctors cut NHS workers' pay, and now they're saying they shouldn't be able to go on strike to complain about that
5:52
Well, look, if you have no strike agreements, as there are in some other countries, you have settled pay agreements that mean those sort of things can't happen
6:01
The Conservatives drove down doctors' pay. Doctors are rightly saying, look, we just want to get back to what we used to earn
6:06
to what doctors were paid in 2008 or 2010. That's a perfectly fair and reasonable demand
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You think 29% in one year at these times, Andrew, is a perfectly fair and reasonable demand
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They're not asking for 29% in one year. Nick, let's just be clear about that
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They spoken to me They are That what Dr Niball told me I listened to what the BMA have been saying throughout this dispute They said they want a path to restoration
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That doesn't mean 29% in one hit. They got 22% over two years before and accepted that and ended the strikes
6:37
What they want is a pathway to say, look, how do we get back up to where we were
6:41
Not just a one-year deal, but perhaps a three- or four-year deal that gets us there over time
6:46
That would be fine. And that's a reasonable way to proceed. A lot of strikes are settled with multi-year deals, as you know
6:52
OK, before I let you go, the emergence of a new party involving Jeremy Corbyn, with whom you work very closely, and it would appear you probably read the papers on the weekend as much as I did, Simon
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He's polling considerably better than Sir Keir Starmer. How much of a problem might this be for the Labour Party
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It's potentially a huge problem for the Labour Party, because it will draw votes from people on the left of the party
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Particularly young votes, perhaps. If 16 and above can start voting, I understand Jeremy Corbyn is more attractive to that age group than he is, than Sir Keir Starmer is
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Well, the polling currently is of 18 to 24-year-olds, and that shows he is the most popular
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his potential party would actually win the popular vote amongst that group
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So it's an interesting thing. But look, there's an opportunity for Labour here, which is to recognise
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they're not just losing votes to the right to reform, they're also losing votes to the Greens, to people staying at home
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And if that coalesces, then there's actually a big threat on their traditional, more left-wing base
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and they need to start thinking about how they address themselves to the country's needs
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because a lot of people are feeling let down by a number of things, whether it's cuts to disability benefits, the cuts to winter fuel
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some of the rhetoric around Ireland of strangers and all that sort of thing
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And there is an appetite for, I think, a more radical government than what we've got now
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because people recognise we do need significant change, which is why you see reform rising in the polls
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and I think why you'd see Jeremy Corbyn and Zahra Sartana's party do quite well
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I will leave it there, Andrew. Good to leave it there. Thank you for your time. Have yourself a good day, Andrew Fisher. Thanks, Andrew
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Columnist with the Eye newspaper. I worked with Jeremy Corbyn on the manifestos in 2017 and 2019
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This really is a very, very simple question. Should doctors be allowed to continue to have the right to strike
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or should it be taken away from them? We'll take it as a yes or a no on that
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