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No better person to do that with, I don't think, than Yossi Belein, former Israeli justice minister
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who initiated the 1993 Oslo Accords, a moment, I would say, when the two sides were closer to peace
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than they have been at any time in living memory. Miss Belein, great to have you with us here on LBC this morning
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We'll start with that rejection by Hamas of the Arab League demand that it lay down its arms
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No great surprise. Is a two-state solution still viable or is that dream dead
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in your view. So, morning. It is viable. There is no other solution. It is the only solution for the
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Palestinians and for the Israelis. Israel cannot remain Jewish and democratic if it doesn't have
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an eastern border. And this eastern border will be created once we have a neighbor which is taking
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account on the other side of the border. And this is the Palestinian Authority
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which is a legal child of the PLO, the Palestinian Liberation Organization
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We are not negotiating with Hamas mainly because they don't want to talk to us
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You know, even when I tried to talk to them in the last years
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they were never ready to speak to somebody like myself. And what they say about that they would be ready to disarm themselves
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when there is a Palestinian state, thank you very much. It is a kind of a private joke, but it is not a joke at all
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Apparently, they don't want to do anything anymore. And we will have to see what can be done
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But when you say the two-state solution is still viable, would it be, I mean, I would say it seems less likely
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than any point in my lifetime. You're respectfully a little bit older than me
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I wonder if you would say the same thing, that it never been further from reality than it is today In 1993 when we began the Oslo process it was so far from even talking to the PLO
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not to speak about the two-state solution. Today, the two-state solution is a kind of a consensus
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Even Netanyahu, until five years ago, supported the two-state solution. But now he does
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So this is not something which is totally unacceptable. And I think that what is happening today
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in the world, speaking about conditions for the two-state solution, ideas about it
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is something which is very positive. But as you say yourself, Hamas doesn't want a two-state solution
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They don't believe Israel should exist. No, of course, it is totally against it officially. And now, for the last five years
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the current Israeli government is as well. So how do you get a two-state solution
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when the two governments on both sides are avowedly against one? They are not a government of anybody
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Hamas is a terrorist organisation. It's the government of Gaza for now
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Even that is not true already. I mean, the IDF is governing Gaza, regretfully
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but this is the situation. They are not calling the shots in Gaza
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and we are not going to... And I'm saying to you, it's not... Theoretically, had they been ready to talk to us
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about a two-state solution, maybe we should have talked to them. I guess I'm asking whether you think that your country's current political leadership is really serious about peace at this point in time
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No. Why? Why is an extreme government with some extreme lunatics on the right
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Netanyahu is dependent on them in order to continue his term as a prime minister
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and for them speaking about a two-state solution is unrealistic But you know we have next year elections and there will be another government in Israel And I hope that the next government will change the policy of Israel
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It is not totally impossible even today if Netanyahu will be ready to replace the extreme right by the center left
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I'm not sure that the centre-left will be ready to do that today
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but theoretically that should have been the case. The centre-left in Israel should come to Netanyahu even now
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and say, OK, enough is enough. With these rightist people, we cannot go on
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They are destroying Israel. And what we have to do is to replace them
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even if it might help us in the next election. You think your own government right now
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is in the process of destroying your country? I think that it is the worst government ever, no doubt
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In Israeli history? In Israel. And what they are doing to Israel is unbelievable
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including its image in the world. I mean, after all, we are a democracy
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After all, we are a liberal democracy. But it became something very different in its image in the world
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And we don't deserve such a government. I mean, if you follow what these ministers are saying about Gaza, the future of Gaza, all these things
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I mean, they are racist and they are extremists and they should have never become ministers
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Netanyahu himself vouched never to join them in his government. But then he breached his promise on camera
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he breached it because this was the only way for him to stay in power Yes Let me ask you about the statement from our government this week about recognition of a Palestinian state joining Canada and France in moving very clearly towards recognising an independent state of Palestine Does that make
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peace more likely, Mr. Baleen, in your view, or less? No. In my view, it is making the two-state
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solution again the only option on the agenda and this is very important it is our interest
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we are not doing any favor to anybody else and all those who are israelis who are speaking against
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the two-state solution do not explain what do they want so you you welcome what kia starma is
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few times a minority of jews will dominate a majority of palestinians this is the zionist
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dream. Thank you very much. You welcome what Keir Starmer is doing. Pardon? You welcome what Keir Starmer
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is doing in terms of policy. Speaking about what the Prime Minister Starmer
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said, I don't understand. Why did he connect the support of Britain in the two-state
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solution with the policy of the current Israeli government in Gaza and said
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that if this policy changes, then he will renege on it? You'd rather it was an unconditional recognition of a state of Palestine
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with no conditions attached in terms of Israel's actions? There might be conditions
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There should be conditions about this state being demilitarized. And there are some other things, for example
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that Hamas will not participate in the next elections, but not this condition
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I really, I must admit, I appreciate the fact that he is supporting the two-state solution
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But I don't understand. It is not just a matter of saying it
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I don't understand. Why did he connect it? It's a very, very, very out-of-the-valley question
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I don't understand it either, as I said in my own show. A few days ago..
