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WATCH: Ben Leo clashes with Lord Foulkes over 'clumsy' Lord Hermer remarks about Nazi Germany
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Jun 2, 2025
GB News host Ben Leo slapped down Baron George Foulkes's "despicable" defence of Lord Hermer after the Attorney General compared calls to ditch the ECHR to 1930s Germany.In a speech delivered last week at the Royal United Services Institute think tank, Lord Hermer criticised politicians who argue the UK should abandon "the constraints of international law in favour of raw power".FULL STORY HERE.
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Right, now the Defence Secretary John Healey will tomorrow unveil plans to spend £1.5 billion
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on increasing Britain's production of artillery shells and explosives. Healey will make a big speech tomorrow, which is also expected to, by the way, he will be
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I can't reveal all at the moment because it's embargoed, but there will be a big military announcement, which at half past ten I'll tell you all about
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But it's expected that plans for six new bomb factories will also be announced as ministers
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publish a strategic defence review, and it's understood that the government wants to aim
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for an always-on approach to defence, meaning Britain's basically constantly ready for war
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Healy says it's a clear message to Moscow warning the UK is already under cyber attack
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and that the keyboard has become a weapon of war. But I'm delighted to be joined now by Labour peer
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and former Minister of State Baron Fulkes of Kumnuk. Lord Fulkes, nice to see you. Good evening
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Hello, Ben. It's really great to be back with you once again
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Thank you. I'm so glad to see you. I enjoyed our skirmish last time
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First of all, what do you make of the defence commitments here from John Healey and the Labour government
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I mean, it looks pretty decent on the surface, right? They're very good. In fact, the only time that the United Kingdom has come anywhere near 2.5% expenditure on defence was with the Labour government
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So we're getting back up to that under another Labour government. And the Tories cut our expenditure on defense, although they pretend to be strong on defense
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But after what's happened with the Russian invasion of Ukraine, it's only right that we should be doing this
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And we should be making sure that we can combat attacks from Russia, whether they be cyber attacks or any other kind of attacks, physical
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and, of course, the important thing is that we really are making sure
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that we have these weapons as a deterrent to make sure that nothing happens
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so they don't invade other countries. Russia doesn't, as it's done in Ukraine
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My only concern is, Lord Fawkes, that the commitment won't take effect
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until after, what, 2030, by which point Labour probably, in my book
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and you'll disagree, won't be in government. Oh, we will be in government
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The way we're going, we're going to be in government for another period
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But it will take some time. But given the Tories' record, it would have taken a hell of a lot longer
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So we are doing well. And we're going to build up these factories producing arms
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throughout the whole of the United Kingdom And that will create jobs as well as produce the ammunition Because our ammunition stocks have gone down as we supplied more and more ammunition to help the Ukrainians
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And look at that fantastic way in which the Ukrainians have managed
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in the last 24 hours to deal with these Russian aircraft. Over 40 Russian aircraft destroyed in a brilliant attack by the Ukrainians
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And that shows what can be done by good operations. Yeah, extraordinary video
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I was reading the Ukrainians smuggled in the drones across the Russian border in some freight boxes
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and launched an attack which took out £9 billion worth or dollars worth of Russian air jets
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Lord Foggs... It's brilliant, and they're protecting the country. That's why it's so important that we protect our country
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And we're working close with Ukraine. Right, let me move on. I want to speak to you about Lord Hermer
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He needs to go, doesn't he? He basically called anybody in this country who wants to deport foreign criminals who shouldn't be here
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paedophiles, drug dealers, whoever, he put them in the same band as 1930s Germany
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Are people who want to deport foreign criminals Nazi, Lord Fox? No, and he didn't say that
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What he said was that just as in Germany in the 1930s
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there was... I think it was Carl Schmitt who suggested that there was a sort of pressure on one side
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for powerful government and, on the other side, the rule of law
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And the rule of law needs to be taken account of. And he was saying that people who wanted to leave
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the European Convention of Human Rights and the Court of Human Rights are doing the same kind of..
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..making the same kind of argument that people in Germany did in the 1930s
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Do you not agree it's a despicable comparison? It's just smearing millions and millions of Brits
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hard-working, decent honest Brits. No, he certainly wasn't. So you don't think he did anything wrong, Lord Foges
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The only thing he said is he didn't choose his words carefully
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He said they were a bit clumsily chosen. But he's absolutely right. We're looking at the rule of law now
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in the Constitution Committee of the House of Lords, and it's very, very important
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Do you believe in the rule of law, Ben? I believe... I'll tell you what, I believe in the rule of British law
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I believe Parliament is sovereign, and I believe nations should be able to run their own affairs
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without the meddling of international courts who nobody knows of. And also, just on Lord Hermit, you said that it was clumsy
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but yet you agree with what he said. How was it clumsy, Lord Fox, when it was a pre-prepared
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pre speech that I suspect he probably took a couple of hours to write and then re You know he not an idiot he quite an intelligent guy And then he delivered it It wasn some off remark
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No, and he's apologised for the choice of words, and a lot of people make that. Look, Liz Truss every day is making a lot of nonsensical speeches
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What's Liz Truss got to do with anything? She should be apologising every day
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Boris Johnson should be apologising every day. Lord Foggs, what have they got to do with anything
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They're your friends, Ben. They're your friends. They're not my friends. Mars Johnson's certainly not my friend
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Lord, folks, with respect, they've got absolutely nothing to do with this. This is the Attorney-General, Keir Starmer's friend
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his busy mate from North London. Keir Starmer, by the way, you want to talk about your party
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Herma calling people Nazis, pretty much. Keir Starmer in January saying anybody..
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Hang on, let me finish a second. Keir Starmer in January saying that the Pakistani grooming gang scandal
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was a right-wing bandwagon. Then you had the... Who was the MP
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was Andrew Gwynn up in Manchester saying he wished his constituents would die
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because they dared ask about bean collections. You've got a problem in your party, haven't you, Lord Foulkes
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No, we certainly haven't. Because your reporting... That's all fine, is it
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Your reporting is not accurate. I'll ask you a question, Ben. Can I ask you a question
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Yeah. Your favourite party, the Reform UK party... Well, it's not a party, it's a limited company owned by Nigel Farage
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They promised to have a policy on deportation of illegal immigrants by the end of May
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Where is it? By the end of May? I don't know. I don't work for reform. I'm not a reform member
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No, you do. You keep... You've got them all lost. Farage is one of your presenters, isn't he
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I haven't seen Farage in months. I don't know what he's doing. Gloria DiPiero is one of our presenters
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So, are you asking me about Labour policy as well? But you're supposed to be on the ball
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You're supposed to know what's happening. What's happened to... Where is it? I don't write reform policy, Lord Folks
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Come on. No, but you report it. Why don't you challenge? Why don't you get someone from reform on and say
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look, you promised to have a policy. You're complaining about all these people coming over in boats
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and you've said you're going to show us how to deal with them. What is their policy
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Lord, folks, with respect to you, you're very good at deflecting talking about Liz Truss
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I mean, who the hell knows what Liz Truss is doing these days? She's not in government. Reform aren't in government
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Your Prime Minister constantly takes the mick out of them saying they can fit their MPs in the back of a black London taxi
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And Boris Johnson's not in government. You and your party are in government and your friend Sakhir Starmer is making a big mess of it
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No, he's not. He's doing a very good job. An exceptionally good job
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Why are his approval ratings so low He now respected throughout the world He and Macron and the Chancellor of Germany and the leaders from other European countries
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are doing a fantastic job and I think it's recognised. If you look, they were recently
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produced comparisons of Keir Starmer with every other leader, with Farage, and he was
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way ahead of Farage, your friend and your presenter on your programme
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My friend. All right, Lord Fox, last question. 1,200 unidentified young men from strange lands
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came across the channel yesterday. It's a dismal, shameful record. Up 30%, I think, year on year
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So much for smashing the gangs, eh? Well, that's why I've asked you the question earlier
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that you've failed to answer. But reform aren't in government, Lord Fox. No, no, but reformed. Keep saying
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I mean, you know, you're saying... Keir Starmer keeps saying, smash the gangs, smash the gangs
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That's why he got elected. The gangs are smashing us. The migrants are smashing our borders
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So what would you do about it? What would I do about it? Turn them back. How would you do that
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Just like Australia did. Speak to Tony Abbott. He actually gave advice to..
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He was in Number 10 a few months ago, I think. You put them in seaworthy lifeboat-style vessels
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and you turn them back. And I don't give a damn what the French say. And then what happens
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The migrants stay in France and Britain flourishes as a strong, independent nation with strong borders
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and Brits prosper. So in 14 years, why did the Tories not do that then
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Because they're useless. Oh, well, you should stand... We agree on that
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You should stand... Yes, indeed. You should stand for Parliament, Ben. You'd make a very good minister
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You've got all the answers, haven't you? Well, seemingly. I suppose that's why I'm paid the big bucks
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Well, not really, just a joke. You are! You are! You've paid a lot. How much have you paid, Ben? I'd like to know that
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I can't tell you that. I bet you've paid a hell of a lot more. Never enough. Never enough. A hell of a lot more than a Member of Parliament
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Well, probably not as much as your £300 a day that you get in the Lords, I'll tell you that. Oh, I bet a great deal more than that
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I'm sure you do. All right, Lord Fox. Why don't you tell me
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Why don't you know how much I get today? How much do you get? Well, you're a public servant, Lord Fox
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I work through a private broadcaster. Oh, dear, dear, dear. But we still should know, open, honesty
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If you ask me, Ben, and I ask you, if you're open and honest, you should let us know, shouldn't you
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All right, well, look, make a deal with me. Come back next time, and I'll let you know. OK, I'll look forward to that
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And thank goodness, thank goodness you've got Andy on your programme. So you've got at least a little bit of balance at last
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Yeah, a little bit. All right. Thanks, Lord Fog. See you soon. On it all, Ben. Cheers
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Look forward to the next time. Yeah, good stuff. Thank you. Right
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