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'You're a joke!' Watch the moment GB News guests throw punches over British history
Oct 11, 2025
Two GB News guests started to throw jibes at one another while GB News presenter Dawn Neesom was leading a debate on whether flying the Union Jack flag was racist.The conversation soon spiralled out of control as Femi Nylander and Dr Philip Kiszely enthusiastically took part in the on-air debate, with Mr Nylander explaining the history of the national flag. "That's the ridiculous half-story of history that isn't accurate in the slightest," Dr Kiszely slammed, with Mr Nylander being quick to retort, later calling him a "liar". But the war of words did not end there with Dr Kiszely blasting: "You're a joke!"WATCH THE CLIP ABOVE FOR MORE
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0:00
Proudly flying my union flag, because that's what we're talking about next
0:03
Now, over the last few months, the topic of, yes, flying a flag, has been widely teeth-in-dawned, contentious in Britain
0:12
and a new route has been sparked after broadcaster Richard Bacon, remember him from Blue Peter, said that flying a flag
0:19
means you want Britain to be more white, his words. Take a look at what he said
0:25
If you stick a pole and a Union Jack tomorrow outside your house
0:30
I think you're making a statement. And I think that statement is probably... I think the context is being..
0:35
OK, I'm going to be really annoying for him, aren't I? We're joined now by cultural historian and academic
0:43
Dr Philip Kizeli. Philip, if I can call you that, is Richard Bacon right
0:51
Hi, Dawn. First of all, it's great to see you. No, of course he's not. How can it be racist to wave your own flag in your own country
0:59
I don't think anybody really, if they're being honest, I don't think anyone believes that at all
1:05
I think something's happening here. I think this is really, it's not about race, it's not about racism
1:11
it's not about being white or any of that. It's really a struggle for cultural dominance
1:17
It's really all about power, isn't it? So this debate was blown up last week, wasn't it
1:24
Tower Hamlets. So Tower Hamlets is like a country within a country. And immediately after October
1:30
the 7th, 2023, the next day, it was festooned in Palestinian flags. So there's something there
1:38
that is really telling, isn't it? And that flag has become a kind of proxy. It means much more
1:43
than the fantasy state of Palestine. It's really about the cultural war in this country
1:50
which is people who want a sense of Englishness, who respect our heritage and our history and who we are as a nation and what we've done as a nation
2:00
versus the extreme hard left and the Islamist lobby that want to change and want to take over and are hostile to who and what we are as a nation
2:11
So really, we're not talking about the Union flag and we're not talking about the flag of St George
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We're talking about those two flags versus another flag that represents anti-Britishness
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hatred of Britain, anti-Semitism, misogyny, homophobia and all of those things and gaslighting and saying that it's anti-racist
2:35
OK, strong words there. OK, let's go now to Femi Nylander, writer and activist
2:42
Femi, I'm assuming you don't agree with anything you've just heard there
2:47
No, I mean, it was a lot of nonsense, wasn't it? I mean, he's wearing a pin on his chest at the moment
2:52
which represents solidarity with Israel. So he understands the concept of wearing something that represents another nation
2:59
Of course, people can represent and can display their solidarity with people undergoing a genocide at the moment by flying a Palestinian flag
3:06
But when we move to the British flag, of course, and we talk about the history of Britain
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it's very understandable why some people would see the British flag in a negative way
3:17
I mean, Britain ran an empire which basically colonized half to a third of the world's population
3:23
If your forefathers and your ancestors knew the British flag as the flag that came to them as a conquering flag, a flag that came to them and said, OK, well, now you're going to be our slave or now you're going to be our subject and you're going to have to work for us
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You're going to have to bow to us. You're going to have to worship a queen from a faraway land that doesn't look like you in our name
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Then that flag to you would represent something negative. Now that's not to say that it represents something negative to everyone
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but it's to say that it's completely understandable why someone whose ancestors
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were enslaved by Britain or were colonised by Britain wouldn't see the Union Jack in the same way that you might
4:01
And even the Irish the Irish called the Union Jack the butcher apron when Ireland was going through the troubles and Ireland was looking to secede Now of course the flag can be used in different ways And the flag in many cases has been linked historically to movements like the skinhead movement in the UK
4:21
neo-fascist movements in the UK. It's also been used by people who are not portraying that and not going down those routes
4:26
and not claiming that kind of sentiment. However, at the moment, a lot of the people hoisting the flag are hoisting it from a position of anti-immigration, from a position of we don't want immigrants, from a position of let's keep the foreigners out
4:44
And if you're hoisting a flag because that's your position, if you're hoisting a flag outside a hotel which is housing migrants because you think that they're all rapists and thieves, then yes
4:54
OK, Femi, let's go back to Philip and let heaven say. Philip, would you like to respond
4:58
Yeah, of course, that's the ridiculous half-story of history that isn't accurate in the slightest
5:03
You know, Britain, we have to go back over this thing over and over again, don't we
5:07
Britain abolished slavery in 1833 at great human and economic cost, and, you know, it was absolutely a moral imperative
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We did that. There was nothing in it for ourselves. Africa was built on slavery from the beginning of time
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Africans didn't want to abolish slavery because there was money in it for them
5:28
He knows that as well as I do. We've had this debate over and over again
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He just keeps talking tosh. What we are concerned with here is mass immigration
5:37
We are concerned with illegal immigration. We are concerned with stats that tell us
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that illegal immigrants and immigrants are massively overrepresented in the rape and murder of women and children
5:51
You cannot describe... No, no, you're the liar. You cannot describe... You're the liar
5:56
You are a liar. You cannot describe... What's the statistic? You're just lying
6:01
What statistic? What statistic? Gentlemen, one at a time. What study is that claim based on
6:07
I'm talking... You're just lying. And this idea is talking over me You are You lying Femi we come to you in a minute Femi Philip finish your point So can I just finish the point OK So we have what over 1 million people
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coming into the country every year. We have a benefits bill that is just spiralling out of control
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We have a huge amount of people who have no connection with this country whatsoever living in social housing
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We simply cannot cope. If you are connecting the union flag or the flag of St George to racism
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with some spurious, ridiculous reference to 1977 skinheads, you don't deserve to be on this show
6:50
You don't know what you're talking about. And frankly, you're a joke. Femi
6:55
So, of course, he was lying. Inimicled immigrants are not necessarily... Not in any way
6:59
There's no study which shows that they're massively overrepresented in the rape of women. Every study shows that they're massively overrepresented
7:05
Name one. Don't say every, name one. I asked you to name one
7:09
If you know something, name one. I'll give you my sources. I'll give you my sources
7:14
Let me speak, exactly. So, firstly, you don't say every study. You name a specific study and give the stats and quotes
7:19
I'll talk about what you said. You said that slavery was part of African culture
7:24
since the beginning of time, and that Britain abolished slavery. Now, of course, there were certain empires
7:30
If people read a book called How Europe Underdeveloped Africa, there were certain parts of Africa
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certain kingdoms in Africa, whose economy had been skewed by the European slave trade
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who did resent the end of slavery, yes, such as the Dahomey Kingdom, and then eventually they found other things to do
7:44
But an actual understanding of history, racial slavery was not part of African history since the beginning of time
7:51
That's nonsense. That's a lie. You won't have any facts to back that up. It's just a spurious thing that you're saying
7:55
And if I go, if I, if I, if I, if I, let's, let's say, let's say, let's say, let's stop
8:00
Please, please, let me finish speaking. No, no, you cannot lie. Let me finish speaking. Let me finish speaking
8:05
you don't know, I've just given a quote I've just given a source, people can go
8:09
to the source that I gave, How You Rebundered About Africa, by Walter Rodney
8:13
Gentlemen, gentlemen, I'm so sorry Gentlemen, I'm going to have to interrupt
8:17
because we have sadly run out of time Brilliant
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