WATCH: Ex-Tory MP declares small boats crossings a 'security crisis' for Britain

To me, I am just getting a bit of deja vu here

It was only a couple of years ago that the Conservative Party was talking about deporting everyone to Rwanda

and only a couple of people ever went voluntarily. All the while, lots and lots of people

continued to come over by small boats. It seems like this government is just playing exactly the same tune

Yeah, hi, Tom. Clearly, I'm a former Conservative MP. But to make the obvious political point

when Labour were in opposition, they voted against every single measure to take back control of our borders

So to suggest that Keir Starmer is serious about stopping the boats or serious about illegal immigration is complete nonsense

This is smoke and mirrors. And how sad is it that it's taken a US president

on a state visit to the UK to state that we could be using military capabilities to do this

I mean, how perverse is it the fact that Keir Starmer could have come up with the idea years and years ago

but clearly his failure? James, how easy is it to use the military to stop the boats coming over there

Well, we're always told that military capabilities are really scarce, and of course they are scarce

But how persuasive would it be, perhaps, for the Royal Marines to have a high readiness intercept force using RIBS or rigid radars

to intercept the boats they come across? We keep being told that we can't attach things to the boats

Of course we know that we have technology now which enables us to stop the boats remotely THE ENGINE of EMP pulse that perhaps attacks the engine But James The point I making is that when something is politically expedient enough

I believe that we must do whatever it takes to stop the boats

So we're now at the point where we have to stop the boats. But, James, over the course of the last three years

just one boat has actually made its way to our shores without being stopped, intercepted, picked up, detected

Only one. I mean, there have been thousands upon thousands who have come

but generally what happens is that border force vessels pick these people up at the halfway point in the Channel

and it's our own vessels that take these people in to Dover Harbour

I mean, what would the military add to this? Surely the barriers aren't actually tactical or physical

The barriers are legal about where these people can be plonked after they're picked up

Border 4s are doing the best they can. When I was in the Home Office, we worked very closely with Small Boats Command

They've got massive I-Star coverage, satellite coverage across the whole of the channel

They know exactly where these boats are, where they're coming from, where they're travelling

It's entirely possible to intercept them. But let's face the facts. If we cannot legally attach anything to the boats

and tow them back, if we can't disable the engine, then there's not much we can do legally

But I think there's a way of doing it. Let's have deterrence. Let have Royal Marines out there Let have frigates out there Let have military capabilities in the channel offering some kind of deterrence And how great would it be for rules of engagement to change whereby we can now physically intercept the boats and tow them back to France

So, James, that is your solution. It's not the military getting involved to bring them to the UK like Bordefur, as you say, are doing now

It's like to stop them in the Middle Channel and return them to France. They literally don't land on our shores. Full stop

Yeah, the military will do whatever they're ordered to do. So if the government is serious about stopping this

it's entirely possible for the military, for the Navy, the Army perhaps

and the RAF to take a more active role in the channel. And let's be clear, this is no longer just a security crisis

or an immigration crisis. This is actually a military crisis. Why? Because we know that these people pose a danger to the UK

We know there's sleeper cells across the UK right now. This is a domestic security crisis, which is state-sponsored

many countries in the world bringing these people across. This is so serious that it requires immediate, in my view

military action to solve the problem. And if Keir Stamber was serious about stopping it

and why wouldn't he be? Because of the polls and because of the necessity, people on the streets saying that this must stop

If he's serious about doing it, the power is in his hands. Do you think the military will be willing to take part in it, though, James

We have read stories where they actually say, look, this isn't what something we..

I know they follow orders, as you say, But they have said this isn something we really want to get involved in The military got a view but ultimately the military follows orders And the military are brilliant at doing what the state asked them to do Now it may be that the military doesn want to get involved

It may be that they can't get involved. But my view is that this is something that

Keir Starmer needs to pursue as an option. What could the military do

What capabilities could be used? How could they perhaps provide a deterrent

for these boats? And what could they physically do to stop the boats coming across

What should be happening is that the boat should be going back to France. France is a safe country

We should not be processing any of these migrants here. And let's be clear, they're not asylum seekers, they're migrants

And let's be clear, many of these people are coming to countries that are not at war. There's no human rights atrocities at all in countries like Albania and Eritrea

The list goes on. We need to be absolutely clear. And what we need today are politicians that say it as it is

We need politicians that stand up in the House of Commons, politicians in my party

I'm proud of Conservative to say it as it is. And if we need to lead ECHR, so be it

If we need to supply the Human Rights Act, so be it. This is a multi-layered approach now

which requires absolute focus from across every machination of schools. Well, it's only a couple of weeks now

until we'll find out what the Conservative position on the ECHR is. They're supposed to be saying this at their party conference

in two or three weeks' time. James Sunderland, thank you, though, for joining us on this issue

Really, really significant stuff. You know what? It sounds like James... I don't want to put words in his mouth, but it sounds like James was saying

what we need is politicians like Donald Trump, who says it and does it