Labour's deportation plans are an attempt to 'win a news cycle', Yusuf says

We need to deport not just the foreign criminals in this country

we need to deport the 1.2 million-plus illegal migrants, who are also criminals, ultimately

The clue's in the name, in the terminology, illegal migrant. And, you know, Barry seems to be particularly pleased

about 5,000 people being, quote, deported. Almost all of those, Barry, are voluntary, not enforced

No, he's on about the criminals. They're not voluntary, actually. That was wrong

So, you're talking about 5,000. There are north of 1.2 million illegal migrants in this country

There's more than 10,000 foreign nationals languishing in our jails. And all we're seeing from Labour at the moment is an attempt to win a news cycle

and to get in front of British voters this concept of, you know, deport now, appeal later

The proof that it's just purely for the visuals is the fact that they've gone after something that looks like a DFS slogan

The reality is not only do we need to deport people quickly, we need to prevent them having any form of appeal other than mistaken identity, frankly

And here's the kicker on all of this. This has been law for years, Barry. The reality is all

that's going to happen is you're going to, and mark my words, we'll probably talk about this in the coming weeks you going to see injunctions from the legal industrial complex that are going to stop those deportations from happening because of the ECHR The ECHR prevents these deportations from happening So forget about the appeal Most of the preventions and the frustrations of deportations

occurs as a result of injunctions from these lawyers, and that's going to continue to happen

So all this is is an attempt to win a news cycle. We're not going to see any change

Well, Zia, you've said two things that seem to be contradictory. On the one hand, you say, well, this has been the law for ages

In fact, it hasn't because it was in June that the legislation and the rules were changed to make sure that these extra countries

were brought into the mix and that the proportion of the sentences..

The law around deporting criminals immediately has been around for years but gets frustrated by the ECHR

And then you said, but of course the problem is that it's illegal under the ECHR

It either is legal or it isn't legal. The point is we've passed legislation to make it easier to deport these criminals

That, I think, is a good thing. The proof, of course, absolutely right, will be let's see what happens

If another 5,200 criminals are being deported from this country, I think you and I can sit around this table and say it's a good thing

But to Zia's point, the challenge that you've got, many people watching this will also be shouting at their screens Many people will feel that whilst we remain within the ECHR all of these ridiculous appeal grounds that are

I mean, it's got to the point, Barry, where it's actually quite laughable now, where the grounds that people are getting their appeals granted on

many people will be shouting at their screens that they feel that there is an ideological disconnect

between the Labour Party and the mechanics actually required to truly resolve this, which is essentially ultimately

to leave the ECHR? Michelle, I don't think it's between the Labour Party

I think what it is is we may have justices in this country

who think that the right to eat chicken nuggets is a human right

And that, I think, we can all hold our head in our hands

and say that is not what the ECHR was supposed to be about

that, of course, those sorts of individual cases make a mockery of what is going on here

But I think what the Labour government is clear about... But it's succeeding, Barry, because of the ECHR, isn't it

Well, actually, I think what we're showing here is that there's ways where the government can actually intervene

change the secondary legislation make sure then that we get on the front foot and can do this before those judges get the chance to in my view misinterpret the legislation

But the time's not an issue because they'll just go for an emergency injunction. That's what they do. So long as the United Kingdom remains part of the ECHR

and remains bound by the chicken nugget clause and all of these other things

the reality is... There is no chicken nugget clause. The chicken nugget clause we're talking about

are things to the right to a private life and all of those things, right? And as you seem to be admitting, you have justices who are over-interpreting these things

I think we're in agreement about that. The only way, so long as you want to continue to have an independent judiciary, Barry

the only way to solve this problem is to, frankly, not just leave the ECHR, but disapply all of the other aspects of international treaties

that prevent these deportations from happening. And I want to stress here, we've narrowed the scope of the deportation conversation

to around the 10,000 or so foreign criminals inside our jails. We should be talking about the 1.2 million people plus who are already here

Those people need to be deported as well. What do you think to that, Herman

Do answer that question because I'm fascinated by it. What would justice mean to you

Would it mean currently, like we're saying, these foreign criminals, they are sent to prison in this country behind bars

Does that feel good to you