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On this episode of Star Rants, CJ and Seán discuss a fan comment suggesting a much darker and more impactful ending for Star Trek: Voyager. Should the show have been bolder in its final episodes before the time-travel finale?
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Well hello there everybody, welcome to another Star Rant, one of my favourite videos to do
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and it's possibly my favourite because I get to do it with the handsome guy to my side there
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Mr Sean Berwick. How are you doing my friend? Well I'm all the better now for hearing lovely lovely things come out of that lovely lovely mouth
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And again that's okay that sounds so so wrong and I'm CJ Allen with the lovely mouth it seems from
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WhatCultureStarWars and Sean is obviously not WhatCultureTrek, it's TrekCulture but yes on WhatCulture's Star Trek
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channel. I feel like I just need to take a second to calm down and get ready
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for some rants. So you know what we're going to do Sean? We're going to play the beautiful
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intro. Woo! So, at Pondermatic, Voyager missed an opportunity in its final season. From the midpoint up to the
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penultimate episode, they could have done stuff they couldn't normally do. Knock considerably
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more crap out of the ship and crew, including killing off a main character. Then, they should
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have plotted end games such that Admiral Janeway time travels back to Voyager just before that all
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kicks off. The audience would have been as desperate as she was to make Captain Janeway
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go along with her plan okay this is interesting i actually like that this okay okay this is i see
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because turning the clock back a tiny little bit to season four you have year of hell which there
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in in the years since there's been the discussion of should that have been a whole season
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of voyager rather than just a two-parter uh and then of course you have an extension of that being
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does the magical erase button affect your enjoyment of the story if everyone's okay
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again at the end or not i think that that is that can come into this one here does end game undo a
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whole season uh or are there things locked in so going into the final series well technically right
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the fun thing i was going to say they did kill a character who had been there since the almost
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the very beginning poor old lieutenant carrie what were you doing beaming down to a to an away
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mission when you hadn't been there in so long how did you think it was going to end joe how did you
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think it was going to end you know my wife had a baby we bought a boat called the live forever
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um sorry uh what what do you so first of all what do you think what do you think well voyager is one
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of my favorite star treks like hands down if i had to say which star trek if i could only watch
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one star trek i would go voyager i absolutely adored voyager grew up with the next generation
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obviously watch the originals deep space nine i've got to hold my hand up i have not watched
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all of deep space nine i struggled with deep space nine i know i know i think i will i will
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this summer when i am off i will go through deep space nine just for you and then i will let you
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know my opinions um but voyager was the one for me again it's one of those i'm not enjoying it i
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want to use my time for other things and plus as younger as well but now i can appreciate tv a lot
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more i think i'll relate more with deep space nine now because now i've been a father i've had a child
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and I feel like a lot of Deep Space Nine is more the family elements of this father
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trying to deal with family life and that, whereas I didn't relate to Cisco as much
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whereas now looking back at what Deep Space Nine was about, I feel I can relate to that more
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and I feel like I'll probably appreciate Deep Space Nine more. But that's a discussion for another time
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But Voyager, I absolutely adore. That was my Sunday, BBC Two, for the Americans watching
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that was one of the channels we had. but I would not go out just so I could watch Voyager on a Sunday
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That was my plan. I don't know if you ever, I don't know if the same for you in Ireland, but it used to be on BBC2 that Voyager was my Sunday go-to show
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I actually watched a lot more Star Trek than I did Star Wars when I was younger, which is hilarious
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But I feel like, and I could be totally wrong, but the impression I got from Endgame is
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they found out partway through the season maybe they aren't getting another season
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and they were like what do we do to kind of tie up everything
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into this big kind of finale for it I think it was a missed opportunity
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this is the game we talked about and or earlier in the video if you just jump to this one
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it had a point A, it had a point B if they'd had this kind
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of on the point we know where we want to be by the end of the season
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and killed off characters and like people have been like oh my god but then had scenes that hinted that jane wade come back in
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time and think like doctor who did it brilliantly with matt smith's first season where the angels
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episode where he's talking to amy pond and it's actually the doctor from the future talking to her
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brilliant fans picked up on is this a mistake is this timey whiny stuff going on those little hints
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made it so interesting if they'd built that final season of voyager i think end game and i think even
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as a pondomatic said you would have been wanting janeway to do that because you would have had the
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hurt of losing these characters over weeks and weeks and weeks going i miss this character i
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want this character back because of end game you only had 10 minutes to process this yeah and I think if that was a season arc i think it would have been one of the best seasons of voyager but hindsight
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is a beautiful thing and i totally agree with this rant i just feel end game was a little bit
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disjointed was it the best finale ever no do we understand why they were doing it yes they needed
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to give the fans an end to this show and they've had to rush it and i totally get that and i'd
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rather they gave us an end than having a cliffhanger and it's it was a disappointing finale i think most
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people agree it felt rushed but i understand the thinking behind it and can appreciate what the
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creators were trying to do but having a whole season of that story would have been amazing
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I mean I I love that point I I agree so much that the final scene where it's Voyager approaching
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Earth I was like just give it just bring us into space dock something something something was a bit
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like oh I think yeah it was it was overall it was it was absolutely tour de force by Kate McGrew
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who you know you know wibbly wobbly timey whimey sure but it was a hell of a ride
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and I think had that yeah had had they had longer to set it up and then they go into that going like
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oh my god is this what they were doing for sure so actually I will say as of right now right this
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moment I need I don't know if they knew going into season seven that this was going to be the last
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season i knew they obviously knew filming that episode because kate mulgrew was talked about how
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she was doing pickup shots while they were taking apart the set around her um so uh but um
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the only thing pond romantic if you don't mean saying the only thing i i wouldn't i wouldn't
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kill a character and then bring them back that's the only thing i wouldn't otherwise i really like
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the idea of like yeah space it out throughout the season and maybe have a little bit of an
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undo here or there the only thing is just because i think we've seen characters being killed off
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in star trek more often than not it's not really worked um or for for various reasons um now there's
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the obviously there's the big one which worked brilliantly there's a movie called the search
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for spock so you know there there's there's ones where it does work but then there's other
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Take them long mind I've got to say Like you would think It would be the conclusion
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End of the movie So it wasn't that much Of a search It's kind of like Okay there he is
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You're not wrong Like It's like Oh where is he Probably where we left him
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Named the whole movie For the search for Spock Like the shortest Star Trek movie ever
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It's like The search for Spock There he is It's like yeah
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The search And revivification Oh right That's a different film Or you know
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the voyage home there's earth okay um overall give me more of endgame for sure because endgame
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yeah my only problem with endgame is it's it's a movie um whereas it could have been
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definitely there's enough there to do a few more episodes of it for sure and that that ending
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hindsight i think it's kind to say oh well the plan was it was all about the journey it wasn't
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about the destination i think that's maybe a kind description of the last scene of end game i think
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that they could have benefited from just land the bloody thing or like just have them actually get
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back to earth uh but thankfully shows like lower decks and of course prodigy have picked up from
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from the end of that um yeah excellent point though excellent rant yep brilliant rant uh shall
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we move on to the next one so ruby galaxy yt thank you ruby for your rant um i hate how the
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how the disney failed the star wars sequels especially with the characters i legitimately
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like the sequel heroes it's just a crying shame that they ever or sadly will never get the same
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amount of material that the og or prequel heroes got but i feel this is a fair rant in saying that
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the characters didn't get the time i will argue the case that finn was a wasted character he needed
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more of a story i feel like when ryan johnson took the last jedi he didn't know what to do with finn
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so let's just have him go on a side mission that it didn't work he introduced the character of rose
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and that actress is absolutely lovely and amazing and did not deserve any of the hate that people
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The thing that I've said on many of the What Culture Star Wars podcasts that we do is it's not the actor's fault for the story
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It's not the actor's fault that goes on screen. The director has said action
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They have done their bit. The director has said cut and went, I am happy with your performance for that character
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And the actor goes, brilliant. That's what they wanted. I've done my job
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that's not the actor's fault that comes down to the director and the creators saying this is what
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I want from you you have gave me that thank you so the actors don't have the say on how they
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act out the scenes or the character's development they are instructed they are told what to do
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in hating on actors I feel as well the biggest misjudges misjustices sorry because the director
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has told them to do it that way. But anyway going back to the rant the sequel heroes have not been given the time or the material they needed I 100 agree with this I don like people hating on the sequels
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The Force Awakens is one of my favorite ones. I feel like it's set off some great characters
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After that, The Last Jedi, I'm not the biggest fan of The Last Jedi, but I can appreciate it
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I can appreciate the cinematics, what Rian Johnson was trying to do
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Rian Johnson was trying to have themes of loneliness, depression, How these can affect your mental health
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Was that needed for a shooty shooty bang bang Star Wars film? Probably not
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Would it have been better for a standalone story about maybe one of these characters going off
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Maybe. Rise of Skywalker, just trying to put all of it together
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The sequels aren't perfect. Can I appreciate what they're trying to do with the stories
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100%. Were the characters wasted? 100%. Totally agree with this, Fran. I don't know how you feel about that
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but personally i feel like these were brilliant characters great actors who have act and chops
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and potential and they were unfortunately wasted in the sequels i i i agree i i agree i think okay
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moving on right that's pretty much yeah i mean i don't really have much in the way of of any
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discrimination i i i think that the force awakens and the last jedi are a duology and the rise of
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skywalker is part three to a trilogy we never saw um and people get absolutely short changed in that
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uh it finn i think is the biggest example of absolutely great setup went nowhere yeah um
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and i've got something to tell you i've got something to tell you during the rise of skywalker
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are you gonna tell her oh no sorry you don't have time on the run time for that like you know you know it's but force awakens for as i and i'm i i have read every review that says
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oh it's it's a remake of a new hope okay well it did it well yeah do you know what i mean like i
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mean yes because it's it was very much the beginning of a new story but we're talking
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earlier about escapism familiarity is one of the reasons why we watch come on star trek every week
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we explore somewhere new there is a problem the baddie wins oh we have an idea the goodies win
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next episode pretty much and it's worked pretty well for 60 years you know um last jedi i actually
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funny if i i think i've seen the last jedi of the sequel trilogy i think i've seen it the most
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because i loved it in the cinema a whole like hand in the air loved it the cinema re-watched
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it at home and i went oh visually on a screen oh my god i saw it the midnight screening and then i
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saw it again a few days later like i saw the sequel trilogy like i went to a special screen
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that started like 6 p.m had the two films up to midnight then watched the riser so i watched all
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three in a row and it's one of my favorite experiences in a cinema were the films great
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hell no but the experience of watching these movies in a cinema switching off just enjoying
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it for enjoying its sake that's all i need and i know people are passionate about the movies i'm
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passionate about the movies like why do you think i've agreed to do visuals like this i am passionate
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about them but i can look at it and go actually yeah there's some bad things but there's some
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good things as well and the characters unfortunately were wasted i would love to see them come back
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um piega is desperate to come back and do finn some justice we know we want the kylo ren movie
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as well like these characters are there to be developed and they've not took that opportunity
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you you you probably know more about this than i do so the last i heard is is rey getting her own
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movie yes i know it's kind of up in there originally they were kind of like ray is going to be kind of
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training new jedis and she would kind of be like it wouldn't be focused on her per se it'd be like
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new jedi at the minute everything is totally up in the air it's like yes it's happening oh it's in
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the works we've got this it's got that it's with feloni um taking over creative lead is the taking
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like the job's been splinter too but feloni is taking the creative side of it and at the minute
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I feel like they're just going what direction do we want to go in now
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nothing's been set in stone like yes 100% we are doing this I think they said that
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originally and now they're like well let's see what happens and I think that's right I think a full
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review of where Star Wars needs to go is needed I feel
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Star Trek needs a let's just sit back and look at what people want
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what the fans want and what can we do creatively that is going to breathe life into these now if you like
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going back to the previous rant starfleet academy was a bit of breath of fresh air
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for star trek has it won people over probably not the old school trekkies haven't enjoyed it as much
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a lot of new trekkies have enjoyed it and sometimes we just need a bit of breath breath of fresh air
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to go let's try something different let's see how it goes a lot of people hated on the idea of ando
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look at how well that went and i feel like these characters here are ready to be developed
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but have we missed the opportunity now to go back to look at these characters or do we need to say
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you know what let's start fresh with star wars we've done the skywalker saga we've had these
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characters let's love and appreciate that story let's do new star wars let's do new characters
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let get a new original trilogy out there which i know they pretty much developing anyway but let get something new out there There my rant I like it I like it I will put my stamp of approval on that rant
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Sean, my friend, earlier you told me I have a lovely mouth, but you know what
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I think we need to use your lovely mouth for a bit of a quickie if you game. Oh, I'm game
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week we are uh we're having a quickie with shanning smith 7859 star trek and star wars are
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like beer pizza and sex even when they are bad they're still pretty good i count myself lucky
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to be entertained let's stop worrying about the little things hey people this one tickled you
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you even told me this tickled you part of me wants to be like do we do we open that can of worms
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or no no no i mean like listen um i'm very happy that even bad beer pizza and sex is good for you
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i genuinely am very very happy and i would that that was the same for everyone but i think
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i i do really like this point because in in star trek some of the most fun episodes are the
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lowest rated like i think of things like threshold right which is take us to salamander speed and you
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know tom paris wants pizza and suddenly he's a fish dude and then they're salamanders on the
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planet right two things first is i contend that that's an excellent episode until the end just
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falls apart so put that aside but also it is so silly and when star trek does silly sure it can be
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not the best thing ever but it's almost always enjoyable um and like we've talked many times about
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the phantom menace does it have the best reviews perhaps not i loved it you know um
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there's no relevance to the whole story you can literally call it the phantom menace and
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has no relevance but you know what it's entertaining fun yes and that's exactly it
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like there are i don't know like even okay they're like there's definitely of course there's
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exceptions to every rule there's a couple of episodes of star trover just like that was bad
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at the time um but then i one of my guilty pleasures sub rosa dr crusher and the sex candle
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love it it's so stupid but everyone commits 110 in that episode to the fact that dr crusher has
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a sex candle and we're taking this seriously it's an important plot point it's so important
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see one of the episodes i love and it's a cliche episode tv shows do it the save on budget in the
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episodes it's time loop episodes oh yeah the groundhog day ones why do they do it because
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they just need the cut on budget they need to have a bottle episode where they're just in the
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same scenes over and over again but i really love those episodes and a lot of people hate them
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but i love those types of episodes it's like time loop episode sign me up and everyone else
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like oh this is a cliche i hate this and that's fair i think and this is just coming to my brain
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here it does work every so often is i like it when you know when you watch a show and you go
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i hate that episode i hate this episode one of my all-time favorite shows and it's just come back
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on Prime and Netflix, nice little plug, is called Person of Interest. Absolutely amazing TV show
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Recommend it to everybody. I won't explain it. There's YouTube videos for that. But there's one
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episode that I can't stand. And this show to me is perfect other than one episode. But you know
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what I do? I know what happens in that episode. It's a rewatch. I just skip it. I don't need it
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I don't need to go to town on Person of Interest saying it's the worst TV show ever. I just hate that episode
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And then I move on. And then I enjoy the rest of the show
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And that's one of the things I love about watching old shows. You know which episodes you love
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You know which episodes you hate. Skip the ones you don't like
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You know the show now. You know where the story's going. Just either skip through it, watch it at 1.5 speed
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God bless technology. You can do that. But like BS Sex and Pizza, I mean, you can even watch your favorite TV shows doing that
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I mean it's true what's the this might get us a content warning
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but that line from the Bloodhound Gang the bad touch, let's do it doggy style
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so we can both watch X-Files I do love the X-Files I'm so glad
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I ended that sentence with the X-Files there I think it might be time
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to end the episode before we get content warnings and go too personal
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with our audience Sean I mean that's probably safest so really really quickly thank you everyone for watching along make sure that you are dropping
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comments and genuinely thank you everyone who is leaving your rants in the comments below there are
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so much fun to go through and if you leave your rants in the comments below you are in with a
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chance of being one of the ones we discuss on a future episode so please do that also make sure
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that you are following us the various socials we are at trek culture on most of the socials
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at tricultureyt on instagram at whatculture star wars on most of the socials as well you can see
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both of our personal handles are on the screen right now so do make sure that you're following
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us there too make sure that you're subscribing because that is such a big thing thank you so
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much everyone who does because you're awesome and legends and whatever else you do until i see you
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again live long and prosper and may the force be with you